NationStates Jolt Archive

(A quickle little bit of background: I was raised in a Unitarian/Presbitarian household. I'm Buddhist. I grew up about 1 hour south of Houston, but haven't lived there in 14+ years, thus I missed the growth of this.)

Yesterday's IHT had this article: A Texas-sized church fills arena with worship (http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/07/18/news/texas.php) on Joel Osteen's Lakewood Church having moved into the old Summit arena, seating 16,000.

I read through the article, interested in my old home area and what had become of the old arena. Then I came to this part:
Like many new evangelical churches, the building has no cross, no stained glass, no other religious iconography. Instead, it has a café with wireless Internet access, 32 video game kiosks and a vault to store offerings.

Is this real? Do many new churches really not have crosses? If so, why? I am confused. :confused:

Is this real? Do many new churches really not have crosses? If so, why? I am confused. :confused:

Only in mega-churches that are more interested in getting people to vote Republican than worshiping God.

Well, a lot of churches nowadays are more like social gathering spots for rich yuppy republican scum. :sniper: Most churches hardly preach the Gospel anymore anyways. Christianity is both the fastest growing and quickest dying religion in the world.

Look into the reformation. Lutherans have never been that keen on religious iconography.

Look into the reformation. Lutherans have never been that keen on religious iconography.


Hmmm.... every Lutheran church I recall seeing had a cross.

Here's a picture of the Beautiful Savior Lutheran Church in Houston, for example. The cross is quite promenant.
http://www.beautifulsaviorchurch.org/graphics/sm_Church.jpg

Hmmm.... every Lutheran church I recall seeing had a cross.
Here's a picture of the Beautiful Savior Lutheran Church in Houston, for example. The cross is quite promenant.

American Lutherans are a breed of their own. In the original Lutheran strongholds, Sweden being one of them, absence of crosses has never been out of the ordinary.

http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:GustafVasakyrkan_Sideview.jpg
http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Onslunda_kyrka%2C_exteri%C3%B6r_11.jpg

I live in a town of about 35-40,000 people.
It boasts more churches per capita, than anywhere else in the world.
All denominations are respresented.
Recently, we even have a couple of Southern Baptist churches,
a Synagogue, and a Ba'hai Temple..(or whatever they call it)
A Mormon church or two....all of em.

Scary, really.

Very few of them, except for the traditionally built ones, have actual steeples with crosses on the outside of them.

All the old 'high' churches have crosses but I sometimes go to more informal worship sessions with no cross. Doesn't matter either way to me.

I'm agnostic, but I do go to a Christian church every now and then...

There is no cross, however the church doesn't even have a permanent home, it just moves around and is slowly raising money so it can buy or rent a place...

American Lutherans are a breed of their own. In the original Lutheran strongholds, Sweden being one of them, absence of crosses has never been out of the ordinary.

http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:GustafVasakyrkan_Sideview.jpg
http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Onslunda_kyrka%2C_exteri%C3%B6r_11.jpg

I was wondering if that might not be the case (most of the Lutherans I grew up with were of German descent - being in Texas and all). But here's a cross on the altar at Gustaf Vasakyrkan:
big image (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/GustafVasakyrkan_Altarpiece.jpg)

But it just bothered me that there seemed to be so many material trappings and distractions as opposed to spiritual. Avoiding iconography in favor of simplicity doesn't seem to fit with that.

(And just to compare, I'll note the corner where I sit for my own meditation usually has no Buddhist iconography. It's actually a sort of broom closet corner. But some altars have a lot of it. Mandalas can be very rich in detail.)

I was wondering if that might not be the case (most of the Lutherans I grew up with were of German descent - being in Texas and all). But here's a cross on the altar at Gustaf Vasakyrkan:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/GustafVasakyrkan_Altarpiece.jpg

But it just bothered me that there seemed to be so many material trappings and distractions as opposed to spiritual. Avoiding iconography in favor of simplicity doesn't seem to fit with that.

Please, remove the image tags in that post, as the picture is screwing up the formatting of the page. It's common courtesy to link to large images instead of having them in-line.

Quoting your first post, "Like many new evangelical churches, the building has no cross". I was under the impression we were talking about the building - the structure. The inside is different in different traditions, but even there the absence of crosses is not unusual.

The splendour of the inside of Gustav Vasa church is otherwise easily explained by it being nouveau baroque.

American Lutherans are a breed of their own. In the original Lutheran strongholds, Sweden being one of them, absence of crosses has never been out of the ordinary.

All Lutheran churches around here have crosses. But some other smaller protestant churhes don't have crosses on their buildings.

In general the religious iconography is not very rich in any protestant churches (compared to orthodox and catholic churches)

But you may need a magnifier glass to find one...
outside (http://aurinko.krap.pl/galeria/galeria/temppeliaukionkirkko1.jpg)
inside (http://aurinko.krap.pl/galeria/galeria/temppeliaukionkirkko1.jpg)

I'm a Catholic (a confused one but nevertheless...), and the Church I attend has many religious symbols. The Crusifix, the altar, the Sacrements, just to name a few.

I think it really all depends on the denomination to which you belong.

(A quickle little bit of background: I was raised in a Unitarian/Presbitarian household. I'm Buddhist. I grew up about 1 hour south of Houston, but haven't lived there in 14+ years, thus I missed the growth of this.)

Yesterday's IHT had this article: A Texas-sized church fills arena with worship (http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/07/18/news/texas.php) on Joel Osteen's Lakewood Church having moved into the old Summit arena, seating 16,000.

I read through the article, interested in my old home area and what had become of the old arena. Then I came to this part:


Is this real? Do many new churches really not have crosses? If so, why? I am confused. :confused:


There are some crosses inside my church; though the building itself has no cross..... It's "All Saints Reformed Presbyterian Church (PCA)" [Picture below]

http://www.geocities.com/all_saints_23235/AllSaintsSanc.jpg

There's nothing new about it; the building's foundation was layed in 1922...

When I visited the Dominican Cathedral in Oaxaca (that's in Mexico, for you merkins), the tour guide pointed out that the majority of churches dating from the Spanish conquest have the crucifix in a side chapel rather than near the altar. This is due to the fact that when the native inhabitants of the region were brought to the church, many of them would, upon seeing the crucified Christ, invariably ask: 'Why did you kill your God?'

The priests, naturally, took Him down to avoid odd theological discussions.

:p

Please, remove the image tags in that post, as the picture is screwing up the formatting of the page. It's common courtesy to link to large images instead of having them in-line.

Yes indeed. Apologies, as I didn't realise the actual size.

Quoting your first post, "Like many new evangelical churches, the building has no cross". I was under the impression we were talking about the building - the structure. The inside is different in different traditions, but even there the absence of crosses is not unusual.

The splendour of the inside of Gustav Vasa church is otherwise easily explained by it being nouveau baroque.

Good point. 　I made the assuption that there were no crosses anywhere in the building, not just on the outside, and that's what bothered me.

My church is sans-cross :D

(A quickle little bit of background: I was raised in a Unitarian/Presbitarian household. I'm Buddhist. I grew up about 1 hour south of Houston, but haven't lived there in 14+ years, thus I missed the growth of this.)

Yesterday's IHT had this article: A Texas-sized church fills arena with worship (http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/07/18/news/texas.php) on Joel Osteen's Lakewood Church having moved into the old Summit arena, seating 16,000.

I read through the article, interested in my old home area and what had become of the old arena. Then I came to this part:


Is this real? Do many new churches really not have crosses? If so, why? I am confused. :confused:

They are trying to appeal to they young people to get them back into the church. There is one here in Tulsa that has games, etc. The kids can come in and have fun but have to sit through a sermon or church service. I'm not so sure that's the way to go, but if the kids like it and can have some fun, what the heck.

Most churches here don't have crosses. Usually they have them inside, but not blazingly big outside.

Some churches don't have crosses because they're concerned that it equates to worshiping the symbol rather than worshiping God. I respectfully disagree with their concern.

Mormon churches don't have crosses because they believe that Jesus suffering was a bad thing.

Of course, the idea of Jesus suffering needlessly would be, but most Christian churches believe that his suffering was a gift from God, and prefer to see it as a gift to be celebrated. Besides, with victory over the grave, death lost it's sting. Anyway, that's how most churches see it.