NationStates Jolt Archive

One of the great thorns that has stuck in my side during my tenure on this planet as a non-commital Agnostic, is the presence in this world of events which can be percieved as "miraculous".

I refer, specifically, to Exorcisms, Trances, Possession and other such phenomena. I would like to hear theories from the secular members of NS about how these events might occur without the presence of the Spiritual.

Especially Exorcisms. Those things are seriously freaky.

Come on, it's not all that hard to beleive that a person with severe mental illness who is raised in a highly religious environment will incorporate the concept of Demons or evil spirits in his delusions. Exorcism is religious faith interfering where Haldol and Thorazine are more appropriate.

Come on, it's not all that hard to beleive that a person with severe mental illness who is raised in a highly religious environment will incorporate the concept of Demons or evil spirits in his delusions. Exorcism is religious faith interfering where Haldol and Thorazine are more appropriate. Yes, that would be a fine explanation. Were it not for the misadventures of John Safran.

Yes, that would be a fine explanation. Were it not for the misadventures of John Safran.
Who dat?

Frankly, I think there are many things that we can not understand yet simply because of the limits of science and technology. For example, the discovery of the lymphatic system is fairly recent, and many things going on in the human body were a complete mystery until it was understood better. I do not, by any means, think we have discovered all there is to know about the human body and its systems. For example, those people who seem unduly sensitive to the thoughts of others...or who are dubbed telekinetic, or whatever...I do not attribute any of these things to some higher power, or god, but rather to an unusually developed human system we have not yet identified or explored. In a hundred years, we may have more answers, and more 'miracles' will have explanations.

All of those things will eventually be explainable, since we know very little about the workings of the brain. There aren't evil spirits or religious intervention involved, only natural causes.

Remember, 200 years ago people thought malaria was caused by bad air, influenza by the planets, and epilepsy by demons. 200 years from now, these ideas of possession will be equally antiquated.

Frankly, I think there are many things that we can not understand yet simply because of the limits of science and technology. For example, the discovery of the lymphatic system is fairly recent, and many things going on in the human body were a complete mystery until it was understood better. I do not, by any means, think we have discovered all there is to know about the human body and its systems. For example, those people who seem unduly sensitive to the thoughts of others...or who are dubbed telekinetic, or whatever...I do not attribute any of these things to some higher power, or god, but rather to an unusually developed human system we have not yet identified or explored. In a hundred years, we may have more answers, and more 'miracles' will have explanations.What she said.

((Why is Jolt so slow today, dammit?! Everyone's always beating me to my own points!:())

Who dat? John Safran is an Australian Jew who travelled around the world for a television program called "John Safran vs God", where he tried almost every single organised religion you can think of. At the end of it, he decided to go to a U.S. Evangelical and undergo an "Exorcism" in order to "cleanse himself".

The results were quite disturbing.

http://www6.sbs.com.au/johnsafranvsgod/

(Click on "See John Release His Demons" to get a brief idea)

What she said.

((Why is Jolt so slow today, dammit?! Everyone's always beating me to my own points!:())

Could be your connection. Mine's running normally today, and was slow yesterday.

Could be your connection. Mine's running normally today, and was slow yesterday.Lol, I have the opposite problem. Yesterday it was lightning fast. I could even upload pictures. Now it's really slow.

Lol, I have the opposite problem. Yesterday it was lightning fast. I could even upload pictures. Now it's really slow.

The vagaries of the Internet, I guess. Not as weird as the ghost sites that come up from time to time (I once found and old e-tailer's website from 2000...I could load my shopping cart with 5 year old PC's and other stuff; couldn't buy it, but still could do it. It was seriously weird.)

Bump.

Frankly, I think there are many things that we can not understand yet simply because of the limits of science and technology... I do not attribute any of these things to some higher power, or god, but rather to an unusually developed human system we have not yet identified or explored. In a hundred years, we may have more answers, and more 'miracles' will have explanations.

I can't see how anyone could disagree with that - there are always limits to our knowledge. And over time the inexplicable is explained.

To be completely fair though, unless someone has empirical proof that there is no God, or that God can't or won't perform miracles, could it not be true that in time it might be proven that God can work miracles?

What she said.

((Why is Jolt so slow today, dammit?! Everyone's always beating me to my own points!:())
I hope you're not losing your touch.

I also agree with Sinuhue.

Whenever there's talk of miracles, you hardly ever hear about bilocation. Now why is that?

One of the great thorns that has stuck in my side during my tenure on this planet as a non-commital Agnostic, is the presence in this world of events which can be percieved as "miraculous".

I refer, specifically, to Exorcisms, Trances, Possession and other such phenomena. I would like to hear theories from the secular members of NS about how these events might occur without the presence of the Spiritual.

Especially Exorcisms. Those things are seriously freaky.

People used to feel the same about lightning.

People used to feel the same about lightning.



If it can be scientifically explained, then it is not a miracle. Miracles are acts that defy the laws of physics.

If it can be scientifically explained, then it is not a miracle. Miracles are acts that defy the laws of physics.

Oh, so they are much like magic tricks then? :p

I hope you're not losing your touch.Me? Never!! :eek: