NationStates Jolt Archive

My wife, a PhD, is going to the AOIR conference in Chicago in October. She has a paper to present and table discussions to hold etc. So, this week she starts trying to sort out the travel arrangements. Now here is where it gets ridiculous.

We live in Brazil, a hot bed of terrorism we have to suppose by the requirements to obtain a visa for her to enter the USA to present at an academic conference there (Note to anyone trying to arrange an international event, hold it in Canada). To obtain a visa she has to book an interview at the USA embassy or consulate. Fair enough, however not just any US embassy or consul will do. We have one 30 kilometres away in the state capital, but no, they can not hold this interview, she will have to travel more than 1,000 miles round trip to get to the nearest embassy that can hold this interview. (The cost of this travel is more than 2 months minimum salary here) In addition, prior to being able to have this interview she has to complete various forms. Again reasonable, except for the content of the forms:
(Paraphrased)Have you ever been in violation of the terms of a visa to enter the United States of America - Yes/No?
Have you ever been a prostitute or procurer for prostitutes - Yes/No?

"Do you seek to enter the United States to engage in export control violations, subversive or terrorist activities or other unlawful purposes? Are you a member or representative of a terrorist organization as currently designated by the U.S. Secretary of State? Have you ever participated in persecutions directed by the Nazi government of Germany; or have you ever participated in genocide? - Yes/No"

Sure, who is going to answer Yes?
What purpose does this form serve? None it seems other than to extort money.

To book the interview youi have to pay a fee. On payment of this fee you are able to click a button that presents you with your options. For interview there is a calendar of available dates provided. Fine, except that they are all in the same week. Who cares that you have a life to live and work to do. Not the US embassy apparently.

The point is, does the USA not want any visitors at all. Does it want to kill off it's tourist industry and force all international academic events to base themselves outside of the country?

Yes, fine, require visas, but at least make these practical to obtain for those with genuine reasons to visit. This type of bureaucracy only damages the USA.

Another silly thing about going to the US:

They have started to demand biometric and machine readable passports for those who enter their country. The Swedish government complied and is about to start issuing them. The problem (other than the futile and utterly scary prospect of the US government having one's biometric data at hand) is that the US lacks the equipment to actually read and scan these new passports they demand that people have. :rolleyes:

I think some of those questions are just meant to prevent more stupid people from entering the country. :p

Wow. Let's just make it completely impossible or undesireable to travel to the US, so that the only people entering the country are illegals. Yay!

Wow Alien, that is really, really stupid. Has she given up yet?

Wow. Let's just make it completely impossible or undesireable to travel to the US, so that the only people entering the country are illegals. Yay!

Wow Alien, that is really, really stupid. Has she given up yet?

No. She has funding from our government to go. She has had her presentation aproved by her peers. Both things that should be the difficult part. The easy part should be getting permission to enter the country to present an academic paper at an international conference from the country holding the conference. Having done the bits that should be difficult, we are not going to let the US Visa requirements stop us, but it is ridiculous.

AOIR, by the way is the Association of Internet Researchers. It is an international association. At present it holds conferences in the USA every other year. If this type of thing continues it is likely to abandon the USA in the end as a location. Can anyone say Academic isolationism?

I remember hearing on the radio why such a question (the one quoted about the terrorists) is placed onto the form.

Apparently, I think somewhere around Kennedy's Presidential term, the question was aimed mainly toward Irish terrorists. IRA I believe is their name.

Though the form needs to be updated. It's the same form they used in the 60's apparently.


Though this is just what the radio told me years ago. Don't take this for complete seriousness. Just an explanation to an otherwise ridiculous question.

I remember hearing on the radio why such a question (the one quoted about the terrorists) is placed onto the form.

Apparently, I think somewhere around Kennedy's Presidential term, the question was aimed mainly toward Irish terrorists. IRA I believe is their name.

Though the form needs to be updated. It's the same form they used in the 60's apparently.


Though this is just what the radio told me years ago. Don't take this for complete seriousness. Just an explanation to an otherwise ridiculous question.

Would that also explain the question about being an ex-Nazi government official? Or an ex-prostitute?
I remember that list (on paper) from the 90s when I was in Canada and decided to visit New York, we were given them when crossing the border. I was laughing my head off at them and wondered if anybody ever selected YES for any question.

The whole idea seems to be that same as that of the Persil-Lists that the Americans used after WWII in hope of finding Nazis. Those were lists with more or less the same sort of questions. You filled them in and were more or less instantly cleared of the suspicion of being a Nazi or coroborator. "Persil - washes whiter than white" :D

Internet Researchers. It is an international association. At present it holds conferences in the USA every other year. If this type of thing continues it is likely to abandon the USA in the end as a location. Can anyone say Academic isolationism?
Well, like you mentioned before...perhaps people should plan these conferences to hapen in Canada :D

Oh I can so feel with you... My sister spend a year at Berkley and you wouldn't believe all the frigging paper-work she had to go through. And the US embassy lost her passport. On the way back to her. With the Visa in it.
Guess how much trouble it is to explain why you were issued a second passport and need an extra visa - just because the US embassy is too stupid/lazy/dangerous combination of both to send it back via registered mail. Not that she hadn't included a stamped, self-addressed envelope which they could've just mailed...

Anyway, I'm not going to visit that country between Canada and Mexico anytime soon.

BTW, can you chose which finger they want to fingerprint? I'd have two to show them at the moment...

My dad worked for the Visa's department in the Dhaka embassy in Bengladesh. However, it was years ago, so it was probably different than now.

Also, there are terrorists in Brazil= Ever heard of the Tri-Border region around the Iguaçu Waterfalls? Hezbollah hangs out there, Al-Qaeda hangs out there, Islamic Jihad hangs out there, etc. Alot of Terrorist money comes from that area.

Although I do agree the U.S. government has gone a bit too far, I see why they did.

Another silly thing about going to the US:

They have started to demand biometric and machine readable passports for those who enter their country. The Swedish government complied and is about to start issuing them. The problem (other than the futile and utterly scary prospect of the US government having one's biometric data at hand) is that the US lacks the equipment to actually read and scan these new passports they demand that people have. :rolleyes:

Ha! In April we went on our annual trip to the US to meet family. My grandma came with us, them scanning a 73 year old Sri Lankan woman's eyes, and fingerprints? Hilarious

When we got in my Uncle's car she said, 'Why did they bother to do that?'. and he said, 'because you could be a terrorist!

My brother and I cracked up.

Would that also explain the question about being an ex-Nazi government official

Well, it been discovered that many Nazis escaped prosecution by fleeing to South America. The ODESA it was called. Would you prefer they didn’t ask?

Anyway, this whole thing is just stupidity. It isn’t a conspiracy to keep foreigners out, it's raw bureaucratic idiocy.

What purpose does this form serve? None it seems other than to extort money.

Ding! you've answered your own question. Basically the form helps justify why the government has hired the person who deals with the form. No other purpose really.

Would that also explain the question about being an ex-Nazi government official? Or an ex-prostitute?
I remember that list (on paper) from the 90s when I was in Canada and decided to visit New York, we were given them when crossing the border. I was laughing my head off at them and wondered if anybody ever selected YES for any question.

The whole idea seems to be that same as that of the Persil-Lists that the Americans used after WWII in hope of finding Nazis. Those were lists with more or less the same sort of questions. You filled them in and were more or less instantly cleared of the suspicion of being a Nazi or coroborator. "Persil - washes whiter than white" :D
You got a form going from Canada to the U.S.?

I cross the border once or twice a year and I've never had to do a damn thing.

Of course I've got dual citizenship, so maybe that's it...

Ha! In April we went on our annual trip to the US to meet family. My grandma came with us, them scanning a 73 year old Sri Lankan woman's eyes, and fingerprints? Hilarious

When we got in my Uncle's car she said, 'Why did they bother to do that?'. and he said, 'because you could be a terrorist!

My brother and I cracked up.

A question: Are you in favor of them scanning people because they “look” like terrorists? In other words, young Arab men.

Another silly thing about going to the US:

They have started to demand biometric and machine readable passports for those who enter their country. The Swedish government complied and is about to start issuing them. The problem (other than the futile and utterly scary prospect of the US government having one's biometric data at hand) is that the US lacks the equipment to actually read and scan these new passports they demand that people have. :rolleyes:


Ireland plan to start issuing these biometric passports now too. And if you don't have one (like me because my passport is now and won't be replaced for 9 more years), you have to obtain a visitor visa just to come on holiday here. (BTW, I'm living here on a visa at the mo, and yes, those ridiculous questions come up for anyone, we had a good laugh...)

No. She has funding from our government to go. She has had her presentation aproved by her peers. Both things that should be the difficult part. The easy part should be getting permission to enter the country to present an academic paper at an international conference from the country holding the conference. Having done the bits that should be difficult, we are not going to let the US Visa requirements stop us, but it is ridiculous.

AOIR, by the way is the Association of Internet Researchers. It is an international association. At present it holds conferences in the USA every other year. If this type of thing continues it is likely to abandon the USA in the end as a location. Can anyone say Academic isolationism?

Alien Born
While your wife is in chicago, there are a few things she must do:

1)Eat at Gino's East (famous for great Chicago-style deep-dish pizza)

2)Go to a Cubs game at Wrigley Field (the Cubs' baseball season goes through September, at least)

3)Go to the top floor of the Sears Tower and take in the view (last time I checked, you pay maybe $5-$10 to take the "tour" to the top).

4)Party at the Alumni Club, Dave & Buster's, or some other place on or around the Rush St./Division St. area.

5)Check out the Navy Pier and/or the Water Tower (Lake Shore Drive/North Michigan Ave. area)

Also, when she's in Chicago she should hop a plane to Boston :D.

Boston > Chicago.

Well, it been discovered that many Nazis escaped prosecution by fleeing to South America. The ODESA it was called. Would you prefer they didn’t ask?

Anyway, this whole thing is just stupidity. It isn’t a conspiracy to keep foreigners out, it's raw bureaucratic idiocy.

They might as well not ask, because you can be pretty sure tht anybody who ever answers "yes" is just a stupid teenager trying to be cool and trying to find out what would happen...
Nazis were bad, but not that stupid, really.

You got a form going from Canada to the U.S.?

I cross the border once or twice a year and I've never had to do a damn thing.

Of course I've got dual citizenship, so maybe that's it...

Crossing from Canada to the US with a German passport. Yep, I got those questions

Crossing from Canada to the US with a German passport. Yep, I got those questions
Ah, yeah, that'll do it.

*snip* Again reasonable, except for the content of the forms:
(Paraphrased)Have you ever been in violation of the terms of a visa to enter the United States of America - Yes/No?
Have you ever been a prostitute or procurer for prostitutes - Yes/No?

I know. I saw similar questions on a similar form when I was going through customs in the United States (from Australia to Canada). I thought them downright insulting. Fortunately, I didn't have to bother with them; as a Canadian, I was passed through customs with no hassle.

Nazis were bad, but not that stupid, really.

I bet their brains are in pretty bad shape by now, considering most of them were middle-aged in the forties.

A joke, of course.

Wow. Let's just make it completely impossible or undesireable to travel to the US, so that the only people entering the country are illegals. Yay!

Wow Alien, that is really, really stupid. Has she given up yet?
You're right. We have completely ignored our borders. The same argument that works against gun control works here, too. Law-abiding travelers are going to comply with the regulations. Terrorists, smugglers, and other bad guys are just going to find an easier way in. Like walking across the Rio Grande.

Turns out you'll need a passport to get back to the U.S. from Canada and Mexico in the near future, too.

3)Go to the top floor of the Sears Tower and take in the view (last time I checked, you pay maybe $5-$10 to take the "tour" to the top).

Hancock Tower's free and it's only 5 or so floors smaller, also you don't have to sit through a stupid video.

Good thing I'm an American with a Diplomatic Passport! Yes, mine is black and the letters and symbols are GOLD!(not real gold, but my Passport pwnz your passport :p)

That was ODESSA (Organisation der ehemaligen SS-Angehörigen) and apparently the Vatican helped them a lot to aquire new papers...

The most striking question on that questionaire - before they changed it - still was, phrased as a single sentence: "Are you mentally ill or member of a Communist Party".

Anyway, who would answer any of those questions with "yes"? Or apply for a Visa if the answer would be yes?

Crazy people, crazy world sometimes...

Also, when she's in Chicago she should hop a plane to Boston :D.

Boston > Chicago.

if you like crabs, maybe. hehe

if you like real food, go to chicago.

Ha! In April we went on our annual trip to the US to meet family. My grandma came with us, them scanning a 73 year old Sri Lankan woman's eyes, and fingerprints? Hilarious

When we got in my Uncle's car she said, 'Why did they bother to do that?'. and he said, 'because you could be a terrorist!

My brother and I cracked up.

Didn't you hear? Biometric and machine readable passports somehow magically catch terrorists. Your grandma is a clear case of a terrorist in the anti-magical disguise of the Islamic devil.

if you like crabs, maybe. hehe

if you like real food, go to chicago.

And Clams, and Lobsters, Pizza(yes, your Chicago Pizza sux0rz), hot dogs, and basically anything!

And Boston has a better climate, has more things to see, is less crowded, looks nicer, and more!

The only bad thing is traffic ><

Turns out you'll need a passport to get back to the U.S. from Canada and Mexico in the near future, too.

Yes.

December 31, 2005 – Passport or other accepted document required for all travel (air/sea) to or from the Caribbean, Bermuda, Central and South America.
December 31, 2006 – Passport or other accepted document required for all air and sea travel to or from Mexico and Canada.
December 31, 2007 – Passport or other accepted document required for all air, sea and land border crossings.

My dad worked for the Visa's department in the Dhaka embassy in Bengladesh. However, it was years ago, so it was probably different than now.

Also, there are terrorists in Brazil= Ever heard of the Tri-Border region around the Iguaçu Waterfalls? Hezbollah hangs out there, Al-Qaeda hangs out there, Islamic Jihad hangs out there, etc. Alot of Terrorist money comes from that area.

Although I do agree the U.S. government has gone a bit too far, I see why they did.

Now let us set a few things straight here. The Iguaçu region (The border between Brazil, Argentina and Paraguay) is famous for contraband goods etc. There is a fair amount of money laundering done in the area, mostly due to the non existant financial regulations in Paraguay. However the vast majority of this is drug cartel related, and nothing to do with terrorism. There is no evidence of any association with Al-Qaeda or anything like that. No terrorist money comes from that area, although some may be processed there, as part of a very large money laundering operation that rivals that of Switzerland.

If your father works for the US Embassy system, perhaps he can explain why a respectable university lecturer, with no criminal record, with a high reputation in her field, has to go to an embassy that is more than 500 miles away to obtain a visa when there is a consulate virtually on our doorstep. This to be honest is the part that is utterly ridiculous. It is like demanding that someone from Chicago has to go to New York to get a visa.

Any explanation?

Now let us set a few things straight here. The Iguaçu region (The border between Brazil, Argentina and Paraguay) is famous for contraband goods etc. There is a fair amount of money laundering done in the area, mostly due to the non existant financial regulations in Paraguay. However the vast majority of this is drug cartel related, and nothing to do with terrorism. There is no evidence of any association with Al-Qaeda or anything like that. No terrorist money comes from that area, although some may be processed there, as part of a very large money laundering operation that rivals that of Switzerland.

If your father works for the US Embassy system, perhaps he can explain why a respectable university lecturer, with no criminal record, with a high reputation in her field, has to go to an embassy that is more than 500 miles away to obtain a visa when there is a consulate virtually on our doorstep. This to be honest is the part that is utterly ridiculous. It is like demanding that someone from Chicago has to go to New York to get a visa.

Any explanation?


1. I'm sorry there, Alien, but

...there are "clear examples" of Islamic groups in the region that "finance terrorist activities". Groups like Egypt's al-Gama'at al-Islamiyya, Islamic Jihad, Hizballah, and Al Qaeda are believed to draw some of their funding from activities in the Triple Frontier.

2. I really don't know. However, in many cases Consulates do not have all the functions of an Embassy. I know, it's odd, but hey, that's diplomacy for yas. It may only give out certain visas, may not give 'em out at all, etc.

Also, it costs 2 months salary to get to Brasilia? Wow...

1. I'm sorry there, Alien, but

The united states treasury department is plain wrong in its opinion. They may have some financial activities in the region, but funding is ridiculous. Try going to the region. It is like saying that the funding for Al-qaeda comes out of the shanty towns in Calcutta. I do not doubt that there are financial operations going on that use the region to make them untraceable, but they will originate somewhere else. Let me try and give you some perspective on the region. There is a bridge that crosses the River Uruguai there, called the Friendship bridge. (Ponte da Amizade) This bridge has been the focal point of various actions recently. One recent story (http://www.estadao.com.br/cidades/noticias/2005/jul/15/25.htm) (it is in portuguese, but if you read Spanish yoiu will be able to make it out.
The story is basically that the Brazilain customs officers caught eight coachloads of people (smugglers) crossing this bridge with products for which they had no fiscal notes or receipts etc. In response the "sacoleiros" (baggers) closed the bridge in protest.
This region is like a glorified 'rio grande' with all the interest being on smuggling contraband from Paraguay into Brazil and Argentina.
As to the Al-Qaeda the claims are not proven (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Ciudad+del+Este&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&linktext=Ciudad%20del%20Este)

2. I really don't know. However, in many cases Consulates do not have all the functions of an Embassy. I know, it's odd, but hey, that's diplomacy for yas. It may only give out certain visas, may not give 'em out at all, etc.

Also, it costs 2 months salary to get to Brasilia? Wow...

Assuming a bit much. It would cos 4 minimum salaries to get to Brasília and back. The embassy she has to go to is in São Paulo. Note that I refer to minimum salaries, not our income.
Porto Alegre, where the local consulate is, is the capital of the second most industrialised state in Brazil (after São Paulo). We have large Ford and GM assembly lines, we export and import from the USA more than any state except São Paulo. There is a large consulate in Porto Alegre, but the US State department seems to not be interested in these links, preferring instead to send its officials on holiday to Salvador, in Bahia, which has little trade with the USA.

Oh, and Alien? Just talked to my dad. Some EMBASSIES don't have visas(EX: The embassy in Pretoria/Tshwane doesn't do visas, but the Consulate in Johannesburg does). Also, he went on about having visas is a privelage, not a right.

*snip.

I think your making a bigger deal than it is. It is customary for certain embassies/consulates to handle certain affairs. It isnt uncommon in most nations outside of westren europe for that exact scenerio you described to take place. You just dont happen to live near the consulate that handles that particular request. Sucks but thats how the consular system for the US works. It has nothing to do with Brazil at all. Im personally speaking from lots of experience on this one.

BTW the US government doesnt know who and what your wife is. Maybe you are taking this way to personal and the anti-US feelings are boiling up way to fast for you. Take a deep breath and realize things are just how they are. Deal with it.

They are looking in the wrong places really. What the Americans should be doing is flushing out their colleges. Strangely a lot of these terrorists seem to have been to american or british colleges.

Easy reason is because colleges are even more open then their countries border due to strick rules of "diversity" in colleges they accept anybody not white right away.

They are looking in the wrong places really. What the Americans should be doing is flushing out their colleges. Strangely a lot of these terrorists seem to have been to american or british colleges.

Easy reason is because colleges are even more open then their countries border due to strick rules of "diversity" in colleges they accept anybody not white right away.

Gulf Republics, your posts are always welcome. :D