NationStates Jolt Archive

I noticed in past discussions that many people have a natural aversion to what they call "corruption"
Be it Social Security, strong governments or the UN and other international organisations - they are all bad because of "corruption".

Now, when you say that, what do you mean?

What is Corruption to you?

What is so bad about it? Is it actually large enough a factor to declare certain concepts bad?

Can there be a good side to corruption even?

I consider corruption to be a state of mind in which someone enters politics posing or really as an idealist or someone with good intentions, or perhaps someone realistic. And then takes bribes, votes for their lobby groups, and just does things like a whipped-ass bondage slave. But in all seriousness, corruption is best described in a short sentence: I want to give you oranges, but you need to give me five oranges for each one, and a kit-kat bar. Understand? Besides, that's stupid. I'd ask for beef jerky. If you like chocolate more, then to hell with you.

There is certainly good corruption, but of course opinions are based upon perceptions. So, it is good for lobby groups to meet a corrupt politician, but bad for voters. Sometimes the actions of corruption can lead to beneficial things, but it doesn't change the fact that the politician was a whore. Might as well get a blowjob from a sleazy hooker and then say "Hey, I have itchy warts now, but she sure made me feel good!"

Corruption is anyone straying from the way I think :p

In all seriousness though it's basically what Drzhen mentioned above: politicians with ulterior motives.

I also mentioned beef jerky.

In all seriousness though it's basically what Drzhen mentioned above: politicians with ulterior motives.
Is that enough to call the UN an evil organisation?
Because its' corruption was always the Number 1 reason why it is such a bad idea.

And what does that have to do with beef jerky and whores with herpes?

I was using humor and analogies. Don't be a prick.

You'd have to talk to people who say that about the U.N. to understand that one. I don't like the U.N. because I'm a nationalist and I don't like world government, not because I think it's corrupt.

Don't be a prick.
:D

In all seriousness though. In so many arguments the word "corruption" has been thrown at me, like some sort of universal evil.

I would like to find who that evil is and stare it right in the eyes to find out more about it.

Corruption is very much based on opinion i.e. what you might consider to be corrupt behavior I might consider to be standard every day practice. So you can't really pin down what corruption is since it varies from person to person.

I think what many people do with the word corruption though is throw it around when they think something is bad because it is in conflict with their philosophy yet they can't really describe why they think it's bad. It's like me with world government, I can't really tell you why I dislike it, it just runs contrary to the way I want to live my life. So in conversation I might label it a corrupt organization to make up for this shortcoming in communication.

I think we can all at least agree on the common elements of corruption in the political scenes.

1. Marked by the taking of large amounts of money; bribes.
2. Marked by increased interest in certain politically-motivated groups, and gifts; lobby interest.
3. Disregard for law in the pursuit of what best benefits that particular politician.

But even with a few common elements, the core of corruption can't be explained, because not everyone shares the same morals, or opinions, or even experiences necessary to understand. The same can be said about the word life. There is no definitive definition: there is no way to explain what life is without inadvertantly including non-living things which express elements common in living organisms. Love is something that can't be explained definitively in context of emotions, though it can certainly be explained as a state of natural chemical-induced euphoria. Justice, good, evil, all these things can't be explained in terms agreeable to most of humanity. So, it's left to the individual mind to grasp the ambiguity, to apply the words to their own experiences, and go on with their lives. Corruption is something which has common elements, but not common themes.

But even with a few common elements, the core of corruption can't be explained, because not everyone shares the same morals, or opinions, or even experiences necessary to understand.
Indeed. And because of that, I want everyone to get together as best as possible and work out a proper definition, a proper description if "corruption".
If only to make it easier to answer to in a debate.

Perhaps the term corrupt is also used a bit too interchangibly with the complaint of politicians losing focus on what they set out to do, even if it is simply that: losing focus.

Then again, I think that's a bullshit excuse, and it's a lousy happening all the same.

I think we can all at least agree on the common elements of corruption in the political scenes.

1. Marked by the taking of large amounts of money; bribes.
2. Marked by increased interest in certain politically-motivated groups, and gifts; lobby interest.
3. Disregard for law in the pursuit of what best benefits that particular politician.
1. don't sure. I think politician is corrupt if he used is power for little group at the countrey, while damage the interests of the whole populace. the money is possible motive, as power that he may get.
2. probably true, but can't stand alone as sign for corruption.
3. sometimes there is ideoligical corruption: when politician used is force for the benefits of little group while ignore the rest of the populace, and then he don't get direct benefit (although it may help him in the elections).


I think that corruption is bad because: a- it is crime.
b- it pass the control from the populace to the elite, and harm the democracy.
c- constant leadership's corruption seen many times as legitimation to break the law by the citizens (if they can do it, I can do it). democracy without respect to the law is anarchy, pure and simple.
d- the whole populace is harmed by laws that passed for interests of elite groups.

I don't think that corruption could have good side, because it will always be against the interests of the populace or the countrey, but on the other hand I don't think that corruption stand alone as legitimate argument to be against any concept, because I don't seen corruption-free system, yet.

A corrupt politician puts his/her own benefit before that of the country, and is motivated by greed rather than patriotism.

A corrupt leader uses his/her power for self-aggrandizement rather than for the good of his/her people.

That's basically how I think of corruption.

I noticed in past discussions that many people have a natural aversion to what they call "corruption"
Be it Social Security, strong governments or the UN and other international organisations - they are all bad because of "corruption".

Now, when you say that, what do you mean?

What is Corruption to you?

What is so bad about it? Is it actually large enough a factor to declare certain concepts bad?

Can there be a good side to corruption even?
Corruption is bad because it feeds dishonesty. Want to start a project? bribe your politician! Competitors have new ideas? Bribe your politician and ban them! Want to win an election? Cuddle up to your special interests! In the worst cases (some African states for example) you can't achieve anything by honest means, because if you seem to be successfull some jelous brownnose makes his his politicians ruin you or require some certificate that you can't get or something more sinister. Even if it never gets that bad in your place it still does encorridge dishonesty both in politics and business, and it hampers innovation and competition by makeing well organised special interest groups more important than good ideas and good honest work.

Can there be good corruption? In a sense. Corruption can help get around stupid rules. That happens in business in India. If you obey all laws you can hardly start a firm. If you instead hire a conultant to bribe the relevant officials you can run your firm without paying taxes and almost without regulations to follow. That's how the indian IT-business took off. But there can never ever be good corruption without very bad rules. And even good corruption is worse than not having the rules, because money is wasted paying for bribing, and those who are honest are punished for it.

I'm having trouble understanding what you mean, Green Israel, with your broken English, but I think I understand you are just as frustrated with corruption as everyone else.

Quoting Callisdrun
A corrupt politician puts his/her own benefit before that of the country, and is motivated by greed rather than patriotism.

Patriotism is something hard to explain as well. Describe what patriotism is to you, and what context.

I'm having trouble understanding what you mean, Green Israel, with your broken English, but I think I understand you are just as frustrated with corruption as everyone else.



Patriotism is something hard to explain as well. Describe what patriotism is to you, and what context.

Love of country. Desire to do what's best for one's country.

Perhaps it was the wrong word to use, but my vocabularly shrinks the more tired I get.

What if your country is doing ungood? Would you be patriotic then, and love your country, if it went to war without any real justification?

What is your country is doing ungood? Would you be patriotic then, and love your country, if it went to war without any real justification?

To me, loving your country is like loving a child. Even if they rob or assault someone, you still love them, but you don't want them to do that kind of thing, because it's a bad thing, you know. And you don't want them to do it because you love them.

Patriotism, to me, is the same way. My hatred for the current US government is not unpatriotic. I despise them because of my patriotism. I love my country and they're screwing it up.

Also, I think that too many people don't separate the country from the government. I love my country, not my government.

What does your country mean to you though? Do you love your Constitution, do you love your laws? Do you love the oligarchies that pass laws for you?

I'm having trouble understanding what you mean, Green Israel, with your broken English, but I think I understand you are just as frustrated with corruption as everyone else.
much true. but I can't really fix myself, so I will stay with the main idea.

bump

Corruption is wrong because it interferes with duty. A politician that is bribed by criminals is not serving his nation like he should and is not upholding the law like he should.

If my country went to war justly or not I would support them. My country is my community, I would try to make sure that it thrives and prospers. My only problem with an unjust war is possibly sponsored crimes against humanity should not be allowed unless the war is too evenly matched and that is the only way to get an advantage.

What is Corruption to you?

Abusing a position of power for personal gain. What other definition is there?

Abusing a position of power for personal gain. What other definition is there?
One that explains comprehensively and accurately why "Corruption" is the reason so many "Leftist" things are bad.

I consider corruption to be a state of mind in which someone enters politics posing or really as an idealist or someone with good intentions, or perhaps someone realistic. And then takes bribes, votes for their lobby groups, and just does things like a whipped-ass bondage slave. But in all seriousness, corruption is best described in a short sentence: I want to give you oranges, but you need to give me five oranges for each one, and a kit-kat bar. Understand? Besides, that's stupid. I'd ask for beef jerky. If you like chocolate more, then to hell with you.

There is certainly good corruption, but of course opinions are based upon perceptions. So, it is good for lobby groups to meet a corrupt politician, but bad for voters. Sometimes the actions of corruption can lead to beneficial things, but it doesn't change the fact that the politician was a whore. Might as well get a blowjob from a sleazy hooker and then say "Hey, I have itchy warts now, but she sure made me feel good!"
that doesn't solve why a large government would be bad. i agree verymuch with what you said. the only long term affective way to get rid of corruption is to place laws and monitoring against it and that would be large government policy.

why are all of you people against large government then? it would solve these problems! as the community is more important than an individual in a large government(whole of the people) one, and it would be for the progress of the entire community. if anyone is against that, they get punished. simple as that.

I noticed in past discussions that many people have a natural aversion to what they call "corruption"
Be it Social Security, strong governments or the UN and other international organisations - they are all bad because of "corruption".

Now, when you say that, what do you mean?

What is Corruption to you?

What is so bad about it? Is it actually large enough a factor to declare certain concepts bad?

Can there be a good side to corruption even?it's called Corruption when it's not favoring you. you'll never see a person on trial get off by the unlikliest of motions suddly declare that the court system is "corrupt" or a canidate who wins by the narrowest of margins say that the voting system is corrupt.

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I think that TheEvilMass is trying to say that William Mckinley is evil and corrupt. That makes me want to research William Mckinley but I won't do so. Still TheEvilMass is doing us all a public service in exposing corruption and making us think about the idea behind corruption. Really, corruption is just created by human nature the way that crime is, corruption is simply the system working in a way that it was not designed to work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Mckinley

An imperialist, a war-monger and a nationalist. Hmm, like 19th century Bush...
Anyways, he doesn't seem any more corrupt than any other president, so I would suggest that TheEvilMass has opted for "Suicide by Mods".

Corrupt: anything that no longer follows its initial purpose.

E.g.: a politician is supposed to use his power for the greater good of all citizens of his country, that's what he was elected for. However, when he starts using his power for his own benefit at the expense of these citizens, he strays away from his original purpose, and thus is corrupt.

Is it bad? I think so. Why? Well, because something, like political power in this case, which was supposed to be used for the good of the general population ends up causing them harm.

Is it always bad? I guess not always, but I cannot currently think of something.

Good enough for you?

Good enough for you?
Apply it to Social Security, Market Regulation and the UN - and I will be. :D

I noticed in past discussions that many people have a natural aversion to what they call "corruption"
Be it Social Security, strong governments or the UN and other international organisations - they are all bad because of "corruption".

Now, when you say that, what do you mean?

What is Corruption to you?

What is so bad about it? Is it actually large enough a factor to declare certain concepts bad?

Can there be a good side to corruption even?

Corruption is basicly unethical behavior for people who are being TRUSTED by the public for public service. They are doing a diservice to their community by being corrupt officials and it can range from dangerouis to just unethical behavior.

However because they are public service, they should be removed from office immediately regardless of the offense. The greater the offense, then you can begin to issue out sentences.

There is patronage which is understandable behavior, and then there is just underhanded behavior that screws people over and screws the community over in the end. Its a disease in which the only cure is removal of office and potential judicial hearings.

Yes corruption is bad, as it prevents loyalty.

one last bump, and then I'm afraid I will have to let this one die...

Corruption can also be biological : decay.

It can also refer to moral decay and decay of integriy.

I guess when I die... and my body decays and is so much fodder for the worms and plants that the corruption of my body at least will have done some good. ;)

Some of the best descriptions of government corruption read like a Poe story. Filled with sickening comparisons between the rotting dead, the putrid and the living and corrupt.

If I had the time, I'd venture to propose a creative writing project; describe your government in the most vivid way possible, using corruption as your theme, be as literary as possible.

But since I'm busy at the moment, I'll log that idea off in with the rest of my writing projects.