NationStates Jolt Archive

In Canada we have basically the Liberal Party (more centralist politically), Conservative Alliance Party (the right wing), and the New Democratic Party (the left wing party). Our Conservative Alliance is about as far right as the US Democratic Party.
I was wondering why Americans generally consider it so bad to be a liberal politically or socially. Please tell me why it is so bad or good to be a liberal.
And I can't wait to hear the way some of folks express themselves on this issue!

It is good to be a liberal because I am liberal, and I am great, and everyone should aspire to be more like me.

Also, only liberals go to heaven. Jesus voted for John Kerry. Everyone knows that.

Also, only liberals go to heaven. Jesus voted for John Kerry. Everyone knows that.

This is true. I did indeed vote Kerry.

In Canada we have basically the Liberal Party (more centralist politically), Conservative Alliance Party (the right wing), and the New Democratic Party (the left wing party). Our Conservative Alliance is about as far right as the US Democratic Party.
I was wondering why Americans generally consider it so bad to be a liberal politically or socially. Please tell me why it is so bad or good to be a liberal.
And I can't wait to hear the way some of folks express themselves on this issue!

Correction: It's the Conservative Party, not Conservative Alliance Party. The Conservative Party we see today is formed by two former conservative parties, The Canadian Reform Conservative Alliance Party and the Progressive Conservative Party.

This is true. I did indeed vote Kerry.

Then thou art safe in the bosom of Christ, my brother. :rolleyes:

To me they are the Conservative Alliance Party whether it's the official name or not. They took the name Conservative Party, so that they could get the votes in the eastern provinces and out west.
The original party that it started out as was the Western Separatist Party ( I believe the name was then) that started in Alberta with a bunch of goose steppers there. It was, and still is, a scary organism to be unleashed on the country. Since they were first formed they have changed their name a number of times in attempts to garner the voters.

I was wondering why Americans generally consider it so bad to be a liberal politically or socially. Please tell me why it is so bad or good to be a liberal.
American politics is a little bit strange sometimes. Maybe it is only because they really only have two parties to reflect ALL the political views out there.

Anyways, the whole "liberal is bad" business is a big marketing ploy by the right-wingers across the spectrum that has worked remarkably well. Not so long ago people voted Democrat and that was normal. The other side were the nutjobs.

Now both parties are fairly equally represented, but you'd never believe it if you hear the media over there.

But some really interesting analysis about that can be found on this thread:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=430763
If you can be bothered to read the whole thing...

I think that here in the U.S. "Conservative" has become synonymous with people who are resistant to change. While "Liberal" has, by the same token, become synonymous with people who want to revamp the system in order to serve a new, more open, social order. "Conservative" has also become another term for people who choose to use religious views and values as a way to define their lives, thus our country's rather unenlightened and archaic views on gays and gay marriage.

I was wondering why Americans generally consider it so bad to be a liberal politically or socially.

This is an American conservative: "You're trying to take away my right to be offended and I demand that you conform to my standards!"

This is an American liberal: "I'm not saying that I want to take away your rights, I'm saying that I don't want you to take away mine."

The only reason why you think "Americans generally consider it so bad" is because the Americans you have observed are primarily conservative. If you had observed a group of Americans that are primarily liberal, you'd probably be asking why generic Americans consider political/social conservatives to have made the "bad" choice.

It certainly bothers me when people fixate so much on "gays are immoral and choose to be gay". But, I'm at least comforted knowing that those people doing the fixating have their own issues. After all, when people fixate on external problems to an obsessive level, it is usually to deflect fixation on whatever internal problem their subconscious does not want to deal with.

In Canada we have basically the Liberal Party (more centralist politically), Conservative Alliance Party (the right wing), and the New Democratic Party (the left wing party). Our Conservative Alliance is about as far right as the US Democratic Party.
I was wondering why Americans generally consider it so bad to be a liberal politically or socially. Please tell me why it is so bad or good to be a liberal.
And I can't wait to hear the way some of folks express themselves on this issue!We have a similar situation in Germany. The difference between democrats and republicans is about the same as between the big conservative party and its Bavarian sister party.

At least in Germany there is the Green party and others which at least bring in a significant percentage of votes to force the issues of voting bloc alliances. In America, the Independent party is nothing.

It is good to be a liberal because I am liberal, and I am great, and everyone should aspire to be more like me.
Oh, brother! :rolleyes:

We don’t have liberal and conservative politicians in the US. We have two groups of politicians who each wish to legislate morality and encroach on individual rights, just in different ways. Currently, conservatives are denying homosexuals the right to get married, and liberals are trying to tell businesses who they can and can’t hire. In addition, they only focus on issues which they seem to have mutually decided to discus, never mind what the people want. The only consequential politician in the US who talks about immigration is Arnold Swarzinager (sp?), despite it being a constant conversation point for the average citizen.

At least in Germany there is the Green party and others which at least bring in a significant percentage of votes to force the issues of voting bloc alliances. In America, the Independent party is nothing.I was saying the situation is closer to Canada.

In my country (Australia), the Liberals are Conservatives...

We Americans love to be the exception, whether it's in a system of government or system of measurement.

It is good to be a conservative because I am conservative, and I am great, and everyone should aspire to be more like me.

~Satanic Reverend Medivh~

http://www.democraticunderground.com/

This is why Liberals are bad.

Canada City']http://www.democraticunderground.com/

This is why Liberals are bad.
And what's so bad about that?

Canada City']http://www.democraticunderground.com/

This is why Liberals are bad.

I don't see anything wrong with this site apart from it being the mutterings of the deranged.

Bush unfairly won the election by being a better candidate than Kerry.

Bush should have shared some of his electoral college votes.

Kerry was from a disadvantaged background, as he was a Democrat!

LAND RIGHTS FOR GAY WHALES DAMN IT!!!

Because during the eighties, Ronald Regan made 'liberal' a dirty word... He happened to have very good reasons for doing so. Soon to be 'liberal' was to be evil. President Bush constantly refered to Kerry as 'Massachusetts most liberal senator' in order to show that he was even more extreme than the ultra-extream Ted Kennedy. This brought the term 'liberal' back to being an insult.

Because during the eighties, Ronald Regan made 'liberal' a dirty word... He happened to have very good reasons for doing so. Soon to be 'liberal' was to be evil. President Bush constantly refered to Kerry as 'Massachusetts most liberal senator' in order to show that he was even more extreme than the ultra-extream Ted Kennedy. This brought the term 'liberal' back to being an insult.
i Completly agree with you. you cocksucker

I jsut think its sad that America, one of the most powerful countries in the world, had a two party system. Ever other party is basically nonexistant. In order to make your vote count, you have to vote either the far left (liberals) or the far right (conservatives) to make your vote count. Sure, its a democratic process, but its a democratic process with only two people to vote for. It's almost like the democratic process in China, where you can vote for the leader, or vote for nobody. :rolleyes:

I jsut think its sad that America, one of the most powerful countries in the world, had a two party system. Ever other party is basically nonexistant. In order to make your vote count, you have to vote either the far left (liberals) or the far right (conservatives) to make your vote count. Sure, its a democratic process, but its a democratic process with only two people to vote for. It's almost like the democratic process in China, where you can vote for the leader, or vote for nobody. :rolleyes:

True, except you have to vote for either the extremely close-left of center (Democrats), or the right (Republicans) to make your vote count.

The true leftist party of this country is the Green party (if you vote for a guy like Nader, you get laughed at over here, just because he's quite far to the left). The Democrats are quite centrist.

i Completly agree with you. you cocksucker

nice one. cocksucker
i wonder how many people would never notice that.

anyway, the word liberal means.. change, trying to make things better, fixing stuff? am i right? why would that ever be a bad thing?

The Republican and Democratic parties of America are more like religious cults engaged in a perpetual war to brainwash more people to follow their crazy agenda.
And the libertarians are kinda ticked off that "liberal" means something entirely different than what it originally meant. :p

And the libertarians are kinda ticked off that "liberal" means something entirely different than what it originally meant. :p

Which is funny, because they changed the meaning of "Libertarian" to suit their agenda.

Aww...

I keep clicking on these threads hoping it'll be an actual fight. They never are.

I want to see Bill Frist vs. Harry Reid. In Thunderdome! :D

Which is funny, because they changed the meaning of "Libertarian" to suit their agenda.
Which makes me sad, this is the only place where I describe my views as 'liberal', the socialists can have libertarian back.


Actually, the extreme left party in the US would be the Socialist Party or the Worker's World. (I used to be a member of the former and a supporter of the latter.)

Which makes me sad, this is the only place where I describe my views as 'liberal', the socialists can have libertarian back.


Actually, the extreme left party in the US would be the Socialist Party or the Worker's World. (I used to be a member of the former and a supporter of the latter.)

1: We *want* "Libertarian" back, damnit!

2: True. However, I didn't say the Greens were an "extreme-leftist party".

I jsut think its sad that America, one of the most powerful countries in the world, had a two party system. Ever other party is basically nonexistant. In order to make your vote count, you have to vote either the far left (liberals) or the far right (conservatives) to make your vote count. Sure, its a democratic process, but its a democratic process with only two people to vote for. It's almost like the democratic process in China, where you can vote for the leader, or vote for nobody. :rolleyes:

That's what happens in a winner-take-all system. We had four political parties origionally, and two pairs joined up almost immediately. If you start a third party, you're not only going to lose, but you're going to force the exsisting party to lose because some of it's supporters went to you.

1: We *want* "Libertarian" back, damnit!

2: True. However, I didn't say the Greens were an "extreme-leftist party".
1. You can have it back *hands it to Potaria* it doesn't have that same ring as 'Liberal'.

2. Oh, sorry about that. Nader is an independent isn't it?

3. From now on I am calling myself a Quasi-PseudoLiberalarian.

anyway, the word liberal means.. change, trying to make things better, fixing stuff? am i right? why would that ever be a bad thing?

The word liberal means to be loose, generous or otherwise allowing things to happen. How the liberals became the party of big government and generally resricting freedom, I don't know.

1. You can have it back *hands it to Potaria* it doesn't have that same ring as 'Liberal'.

2. Oh, sorry about that. Nader is an independent isn't it?

3. From now on I am calling myself a Quasi-PseudoLiberalarian.

1: At last...!

2: Yes, Nader is independent. However, he's quite leftist.

3: ...Okay...

The word liberal means to be loose, generous or otherwise allowing things to happen. How the liberals became the party of big government and generally resricting freedom, I don't know.

"Generally restricting freedom", eh? Of course, you mean *financial* freedom, which is nothing like *social* freedom, which the rightists love to restrict.

"Generally restricting freedom", eh? Of course, you mean *financial* freedom, which is nothing like *social* freedom, which the rightists love to restrict.
Hey! Technically I am a rightists and I don't want to restrict either.


I was watching a debate between the third party candidates, it was far better than watching Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb spew the same rhetoric.

Hey! Technically I am a rightists and I don't want to restrict either.

*wonders what the hell happened to Kervoskia*

Canada City']http://www.democraticunderground.com/

This is why Liberals are bad.
Ann Coulter.

This is why Conservatives are bad.

Ann Coulter.

This is why Conservatives are bad.

The difference is, most of us don't like Ann either, but lefties love Michael Moore, who is no better.

I think americans view liberals as so bad is because of the way the democratic party presents its self. For me, a conservative is someone who wants to keep the statis quo and i believe that secrurity of non reforms has worked so far. That why i believe John Kerry lost the election and Geoge Bush came out on top. And trust me, who won by a large margine. over 1.2 million votes. and thats just the popular. I guess people liked what he has done seeing as he lost the popular vote last election. :rolleyes:

The difference is, most of us don't like Ann either, but lefties love Michael Moore, who is no better.
How could anyone hate Annie, she's adorable?

How could anyone hate Annie, she's adorable?

Well, let me rephrase that; I have nothing against her personally, I just find her too extreme for my tastes, and not in that good Rush Limbaugh entertainment kinda way, in that bad, annoyingly excessive kinda way

Well, let me rephrase that; I have nothing against her personally, I just find her too extreme for my tastes, and not in that good Rush Limbaugh entertainment kinda way, in that bad, annoyingly excessive kinda way
I'd love to see her drunk.

I'd love to see her drunk.

There's a website out there which paints her in much worse colours than "drunk", and it's at once entirely disturbing and rollicking fun. Since I'm sketchy on link policies, I'll just say that anyone who wants to know more can do a web search for "ann coulter ass saddle".

The difference is, most of us don't like Ann either, but lefties love Michael Moore, who is no better.
...Because Michael Moore says Canada should be grateful that we don't invade them? :rolleyes: Michael Moore advocates the mass slaughter of everyone that doesn't share his views?

Ann Coulter is evil. If I founded a religion, she would be a demon in it.

Also, only liberals go to heaven. Jesus voted for John Kerry. Everyone knows that.John Kerry was no liberal. He was simply a little less conservative thann George Bush. :rolleyes:

We don’t have liberal and conservative politicians in the US. We have two groups of politicians who each wish to legislate morality and encroach on individual rights, just in different ways.
Uh-oh! Libertarian alert! ;)

The only consequential politician in the US who talks about immigration is Arnold Swarzinager (sp?), despite it being a constant conversation point for the average citizen.
That's true, and I suspect it's because both parties are unwilling to side with the public, who mostly want some degree of immigration control, as opposed to big business, who mostly want few immigration controls. Similarly here in Ireland, abortion is almost never publicly discussed by the parties, because it is such a hot, divisive issue. Many of the large number of pro-life people feel so adamantly about the position (keep in mind that abortion is illegal here) that if any party came out in favour of it, they would lose huge numbers of voters.

I jsut think its sad that America, one of the most powerful countries in the world, had a two party system. Ever other party is basically nonexistant. In order to make your vote count, you have to vote either the far left (liberals) or the far right (conservatives) to make your vote count.
You make it sound as if the Democrats and Republicans are so different from each other. They're not. The media just highlights imagined differences in their positions. Their supporters are more polarised than their politicians. The Democrats and Republicans, in fact, probably share about 75% of the same policies.

How the liberals became the party of big government and generally resricting freedom, I don't know.
Why do people use the word "liberal" when they mean "Democrats"? (similarly, "conservative" when they mean Republicans.) They are NOT synonyms!

...Because Michael Moore says Canada should be grateful that we don't invade them? :rolleyes: Michael Moore advocates the mass slaughter of everyone that doesn't share his views?

I don't remember Ann Coulter making video 'documentries' and making millions of dollars while trying to appear as a 'blue collar' working. Or telling another country, like Canada, on who we shouldn't vote for because "we might embrass him"

Sorry tubby, but appeasing your rich hypocritcal fat ass is our LAST CONCERN when we vote.

Canada City']-snip-
Oh you Americans crack me up.
:D

Oh you Americans crack me up.
:D
Life is hard for Canada City, living in a country controlled by Liberals.

Uh-oh! Libertarian alert! ;) Or more likely, "classic" Liberal.


That's true, and I suspect it's because both parties are unwilling to side with the public, who mostly want some degree of immigration control, as opposed to big business, who mostly want few immigration controls. Similarly here in Ireland, abortion is almost never publicly discussed by the parties, because it is such a hot, divisive issue. Many of the large number of pro-life people feel so adamantly about the position (keep in mind that abortion is illegal here) that if any party came out in favour of it, they would lose huge numbers of voters. Yes, in America it tends to be the people vs. big business. And no party can ever capture the majority of the people, because people will always disagree on issues.


You make it sound as if the Democrats and Republicans are so different from each other. They're not. The media just highlights imagined differences in their positions. Their supporters are more polarised than their politicians. The Democrats and Republicans, in fact, probably share about 75% of the same policies.I agree with you here. The Democrats tend to lean somewhat to the left of the conservative scale, while the Republicans lean somewhat to the right, but I suspect their political compass scores would be very similar -- <2~3 E L/R, 0.5~1 S L/A> Democrats, <4 E L/R, 1 S L/A> Republicans


Why do people use the word "liberal" when they mean "Democrats"? (similarly, "conservative" when they mean Republicans.) They are NOT synonyms!It's because of the media and other sources, which state that the Democrats are liberal and the Republicans are conservative. And besides, who doesn't learn in political science that the Democrats are the more liberal party and the Republicans are the more conservative. They're both centrist, just the Republicans are slightly more socially to the authoritarian side.

Bear in mind I'm british and haven't been to america, all i know comes from talking to americans (democrats and republicans), internet, obviously non-biased punk music :p (although i don't take it at face falue), and teh BBC, which isn't brilliant, but from these sources i understand its a lot better than american equivalents.

I would say liberal is a dirty word coz a lot of teh mainstream media is conservative, and from what i hear, actual news, as oposed to opinions mascerading as news is hard to come by. if you're not a discerning viewer, you jsut accept what the Republicans are saying.

second: 2 party system, witha more extreme '1st past teh post' mechanism than ours. 2 parties cannot represent the views of everyone adequately.

third: Both parties are to teh right, like torys and new labour, but more so and with no lib dem option. its just ones further.

now random stuff. i'm kinda libertarian, i don't think there should be restrictions, unless you're doing damage without them. but i place doing damage at a much lower bar than libertarians proper, so that makes me socialist? to me libertarianism is more related to conservativeness than liberalness, it means no taxes, social security, NHS (or equivalent, which is already crap in america), and no funding for schools and roads. All in teh name of personal freedom. that's how i see it, but i've only come accross the term lately.

Now i think public schools, NHS, pensions, etc are good things, i've seen the view that welfare states just make people lazy. for me that's the fundamental difference between liberal and conservative, liberals want these things, and are willing to pay taxes for them, and have higher taxes on teh rich, and conservatives would rather not have taxes or associated benefits. On a more global scale liberals would want to redistribute wealth to poorer nations and conservatives would want to exploit them. This is a gross simplification and i expect it will get several rebutals from conservatives and maybe liberals too.

But for me the question wouldn't be 'why is liberal a dirty word?' but 'why aren't there more liberals and how can the system be so biased towards conservativeness?' It can't all come down to greed, coz i know nice conservatives. okay, i'm done hijacking the thread. if its an entirely inappropriate post could a mod please move/delete it, but i think its connected enough to be in.

nice one. cocksucker
i wonder how many people would never notice that.

anyway, the word liberal means.. change, trying to make things better, fixing stuff? am i right? why would that ever be a bad thing?
thanks! you big fat sack of monkey poop who i don't much care for