NationStates Jolt Archive

Yesterday a thread dealt with a "father" who beat his 3 year old son to death while trying to "toughen him up". A few posts in that thread dealt with teaching your kids to fight in a safe and responsible way, ie. not when they're 3 and not beating them senseless.

I stated that when I have kids I'd teach them how to fight by buying them a speed bag, a heavy bag, some gloves, and training them, perhaps lightly sparring with them when they're teens, and enrolling them in a good, realistic martial arts school.

Does anyone think teaching one's kids to fight is irresponsible or unethical? Why?

that takes up too much time and effort. I'll just beat him up instead

that takes up too much time and effort. I'll just beat him up instead
Yeah, that's what my pop did. It isn't as effective as you think.

depends on how you do it, doesnt it?

using your example, if your son or daughter was dead set against it, if you and your kid didnt have a good relationship, if you were too physically rough with them, if you urged them on to fight by saying bad things to them. it could very well be wrong.

as a concept, all parents have to teach their kids how to cope with conflict. learning to fight can be part of that.

Yeah, that's what my pop did. It isn't as effective as you think.

Your alive arn't ya?

I think it's fine to teach your kid to fight. I don't think three is a very good age to start, though.

Surely it depends.

I mean, if you are training your kids to fight so they can wander round town looking for "undesirables" to get rid of my be looked down on.

But teaching them so they can defend themselves is something very few would have a problem I think.

depends on how you do it, doesnt it?

using your example, if your son or daughter was dead set against it, if you and your kid didnt have a good relationship, if you were too physically rough with them, if you urged them on to fight by saying bad things to them. it could very well be wrong.

as a concept, all parents have to teach their kids how to cope with conflict. learning to fight can be part of that.
I agree. You can't teach someone something that he doesn't want to learn. Also I would take care not to be too rough or to try to pressure him or her.

Your alive arn't ya?
Yeah, ya wanna make something of it? :mad:

;) ;) ;)

Well I view fighting as a last resort, unless it's in the case of self defense.

First you teach your kids to use words, hoping that they will never have to fight.

I think it's fine to teach your kid to fight. I don't think three is a very good age to start, though.
Yeah, that's absolutely true. Three is virtually still a baby.

Surely it depends.

I mean, if you are training your kids to fight so they can wander round town looking for "undesirables" to get rid of my be looked down on.

But teaching them so they can defend themselves is something very few would have a problem I think.
Yeah, I would stress self defense. Not cruising for fights as an ego boost.

Well I view fighting as a last resort, unless it's in the case of self defense.

First you teach your kids to use words, hoping that they will never have to fight.
But I've never been good with words. :(
Their mother will have to handle that part.

I hope that by teaching my son to fight, I can teach him WHEN to fight.

I also hope that if I do, my son will understand that win or lose, you learn when you fight. As opposed to guns which have a bad habit of leaving people without a chance to gain valuable life expreiences.

Finally, if my son is going to be as much of a smartass as I was, He's going to need to know a little self defense. :)

Yeah, I would stress self defense. Not cruising for fights as an ego boost.
And therein lies the difficulty. My dad didn't teach me how to fight--living in an era where schoolyard fights were commonplace taught me that. What my dad taught me was that fighting ought to be the last resort, and that if you are forced into it, that you should use whatever tactics are necessary to get the upper hand. None of this "fair fight" crap. I got into my last fight in the eighth grade, which was about 22 years ago.

Yesterday a thread dealt with a "father" who beat his 3 year old son to death while trying to "toughen him up". A few posts in that thread dealt with teaching your kids to fight in a safe and responsible way, ie. not when they're 3 and not beating them senseless.

I stated that when I have kids I'd teach them how to fight by buying them a speed bag, a heavy bag, some gloves, and training them, perhaps lightly sparring with them when they're teens, and enrolling them in a good, realistic martial arts school.

Does anyone think teaching one's kids to fight is irresponsible or unethical? Why?
No, not exactly. A child (especially a little girl) needs to know how to defend itself. However, I wouldn't simply beat on the kid hoping for him to respond. :rolleyes: I'd have it attend martial arts classes as I did, and I'd have my little girl take self-defense courses as well.

Does anyone think teaching one's kids to fight is irresponsible or unethical? Why?

I think teaching self-defense is a valuable lesson, particularly if the lessons are given in response to violent situations.

However, I think it would be inappropriate to introduce children to fighting in any other capacity.

And therein lies the difficulty. My dad didn't teach me how to fight--living in an era where schoolyard fights were commonplace taught me that. What my dad taught me was that fighting ought to be the last resort, and that if you are forced into it, that you should use whatever tactics are necessary to get the upper hand. None of this "fair fight" crap. I got into my last fight in the eighth grade, which was about 22 years ago.

School yard fights have always been commonplace and still are

Actually, if you name your kid "Sue", I hear he'll learn himself to fight. I have a pretty good source on it, too.

School yard fights have always been commonplace and still are
Maybe where you are, but my experience with my daughter has been that schoolyard fights are becoming increasingly rare because of the zero-tolerance policies many school districts have imposed. The ironic part of that is, while they've become rarer, they've become increasingly more violent, with weapons often coming into play.

No, don't teach your kids to fight unless your qualifed to do so. Otherwise, take them to a goood dojo with a good Sensei and let them learn there. Take lessons at the same Dojo and you can pratice with your kids. Leave it to professionals.

No, don't teach your kids to fight unless your qualifed to do so. Otherwise, take them to a goood dojo with a good Sensei and let them learn there. Take lessons at the same Dojo and you can pratice with your kids. Leave it to professionals.
I was training to be a martial arts instructor for a few years. I never got certified, but I can teach a few things.

Does anyone think teaching one's kids to fight is irresponsible or unethical? depends in what Country you currently live.

If you live in the US(and other countries) is a necessary evil ...

in US schools the "Class Bully" is a normal part of the society.
and other countries have school taxation problems.
Adults (teachers and others) cannot laid a hand on the kids...they have to wait for the police to come...so only Kids can beat other Kids..which means the bigger kids rule...its the law of the Jungle...

When a Bigger Kid is intimidating a small kid the Adults will turn a blind eye and wait for the problem to solve itself.

so If I ever raise kids in the US...you bet I will teach them to fight Nasty and Dirty...after the Karate classes...

Actually... I would never raise my kids in the US.

Yesterday a thread dealt with a "father" who beat his 3 year old son to death while trying to "toughen him up". A few posts in that thread dealt with teaching your kids to fight in a safe and responsible way, ie. not when they're 3 and not beating them senseless.

I stated that when I have kids I'd teach them how to fight by buying them a speed bag, a heavy bag, some gloves, and training them, perhaps lightly sparring with them when they're teens, and enrolling them in a good, realistic martial arts school.

Does anyone think teaching one's kids to fight is irresponsible or unethical? Why?
Not at all, as long as he/she is also taught the self-discipline needed to control emotion. A good matial arts master should be able to do this quite effectively. I recommend an Eastern-trained Aikido Master.

depands in what Country you currently live.

If you live in the US(and other countries) is a nessecaru evil...

in US schools the "Class Bully" is a normal part of the society.
and other countries have school taxation problems.
Adults (teachers and others) cannot laid a hand on the kids...they have to wait for the police to come...so only Kids can beat other Kids..wich means the bigger kids rule...its the law of the Jungle...

When a Bigger Kid is intimidating a small kid the Adults will turn a blind eye and wait for the problem to solve itself.

so If I ever raise kids in the US...you bet I will teach them to figth Nasty and Dirty...after the Karate classes...

Actually... I would never raise my kids in the US.

I've wondered what country your from for a while Oceandrive. Sometimes I think you're American, sometimes I think you're from some other country. Where are you from?

depands in what Country you currently live.

If you live in the US(and other countries) is a nessecaru evil...

in US schools the "Class Bully" is a normal part of the society.
and other countries have school taxation problems.
Adults (teachers and others) cannot laid a hand on the kids...they have to wait for the police to come...so only Kids can beat other Kids..wich means the bigger kids rule...its the law of the Jungle...

When a Bigger Kid is intimidating a small kid the Adults will turn a blind eye and wait for the problem to solve itself.

so If I ever raise kids in the US...you bet I will teach them to figth Nasty and Dirty...after the Karate classes...

Actually... I would never raise my kids in the US.
You have a very distorted view of my Country.

psht first off, 3 is to young to learn how to fight, if you're going to bother "toughening one up" 3 is waay to young, they won't even remember in 3 minutes so its not like it counts..and i dont know of any 3 year olds that could even put up a fight to another 3 year old, only because they have no problems, they dont have to put up with "omg, he stole my card," "omg he started it," "OMG"

anyways im just saying 3 is to young, and toughening up is not gonna work, might as well let them do this ---> :headbang: then you dont have to do any work

did that make sence? im still waking up.. :)

Not at all, as long as he/she is also taught the self-discipline needed to control emotion. A good matial arts master should be able to do this quite effectively. I recommend an Eastern-trained Aikido Master.
If I'm still in New Jersey when I have kids I already have a school in mind. Princeton Academy of Martial Arts. I trained there for a few years and the instructors and students are fine people.

psht first off, 3 is to young to learn how to fight, if you're going to bother "toughening one up" 3 is waay to young, they won't even remember in 3 minutes so its not like it counts..and i dont know of any 3 year olds that could even put up a fight to another 3 year old, only because they have no problems, they dont have to put up with "omg, he stole my card," "omg he started it," "OMG"

anyways im just saying 3 is to young, and toughening up is not gonna work, might as well let them do this ---> :headbang: then you dont have to do any work

did that make sence? im still waking up.. :)
Yeah, I agree with you. The guy trying to "toughen up" his 3 year old was a scumbag.

Yeah, I agree with you. The guy trying to "toughen up" his 3 year old was a scumbag.

This thread could be a fine discussion without the child abuse stuff thrown in. What that man was doing has nothing whatsoever to do with raising children questions, dispite that the same words are used (teaching, fighting etc.,).

Enroll 'em in a martial arts class when they're about six. This way, they get formal training at a young age, can stick with it, and depending on the form, may even be able to take up weapons training later on in life. I think it's fine to teach your kid to fight, so long as you make sure to teach them that violence is a last resort, and to walk away from a fight whenever feasible, and that there's nothing wrong with doing so.

If I'm still in New Jersey when I have kids I already have a school in mind. Princeton Academy of Martial Arts. I trained there for a few years and the instructors and students are fine people.
I've always liked your posts, and now I admit to being impressed! You've actually planned that far ahead? Are you even married yet???

indeed, but scumbags are everywhere, my school system is basically scumbags, drug dealers, and what not, who would probably do that, its sad, but we cant stop them, the ratio:

scumbags : non-scumbags
3 : 1
and thats estimated, but estimated out of the school population, which is the part that actually counts seeing as "they are our future" and all the garbage our government/media is feeding us

I've always liked your posts, and now I admit to being impressed! You've actually planned that far ahead? Are you even married yet???
Sadly, no. I thought I was close once, but stuff happened. Still looking for the right one.

As for thinking ahead, PAMA helped me work through some issues and improve myslef in many ways. It's only natural that when I have kids I'd want to share those benefits with them.

I was training to be a martial arts instructor for a few years. I never got certified, but I can teach a few things.

Yeah, I think would count. You know a lot more than most people do, and if you were anywhere near getting your certification, your deep enough into it to know and respect the philosophies behind the art. That you have really good grasp of what training actually entails. If money is too tight for enrolling your kids @ a good dojo, then teaching them what you know is the next best thing. But the added bonus of a dojo is the social aspect (as I'm sure you already know) In any case, teaching your kids self-defense is a great idea. Its best when backed up with a consistent philosophy and approach to life, because then it helps a person handle all manner of situations, not just violent ones. Go for it.

Of course it would be important to teach your child about self-defense, not fighting. Teaching a child how to fight is telling them how to pick fights with people and beat them. Self-defense is what should be taught. Also teaching a child about the appropriate use of force is imperative when teaching about self-defense.

Of course it would be important to teach your child about self-defense, not fighting. Teaching a child how to fight is telling them how to pick fights with people and beat them. Self-defense is what should be taught. Also teaching a child about the appropriate use of force is imperative when teaching about self-defense.
Fighting is part of self defense. Self defense ranges from being aware of your surroundings, listening to your instincts, knowing how to talk, knowing when to walk away, knowing when to run away, and knowing how to fight if necessary. I was addressing the fighting part of self defense.

When I was 6 my mom taught me the basics of fighting. When I turn 10 she taught more intricit details i.e. grabbing someones hair and then kneeing them in the face, tackling and staying on top (Thank you football and wrestling :D), etc, etc. Just a few days ago my dad took me up to my grandfathers house to learn how to shoot various guns (Colt .45 ASC, Colt 35 revolver, and a Mauser Rifle).

Anyway it was nothing much or nothing that consumed a recognizable amount of time, but teaching your kids self-defense should be paramount even when they're young. Except for the firearms section I've used everything they've taught me.

Sadly, no. I thought I was close once, but stuff happened. Still looking for the right one.

As for thinking ahead, PAMA helped me work through some issues and improve myslef in many ways. It's only natural that when I have kids I'd want to share those benefits with them.
You go, Dude!

*Saaaa-LUTE!* :D

I put my son in a martial arts class when he was four. He was the youngest in his class, but he did well and it encouraged them to allow more children in his age group to join. Unfortunately, it was very expensive so we stopped taking him. Now he's ten and doesn't remember any of it. It's probably more cost effective to let a kid figure it out for themselves.

martial arts were cool when i was a kid, although they were more fighty than self defense. I wouldn't set out to teach my (potential future) kids to fight/self defense. If they wanted to take a martial art i wouldn't stop them. Just to make a contentious point, i wouldn't encourage them to do boxing, which i see as not self defense but a fight form which can only be used to injur badly, and in wich you can suffer injury through too. Also, as far asa i can tell, it doesn't carry the self defense ethos which martial arts do, it seems to carry a more 'sporty' ethos, like rugby or something. I can't see why they might want to do it, and i wouldn't encourage ti, but that said i wouldn't stop it either.

meh, my thoughts done.

I agree with Drunk Commie.

Yesterday a thread dealt with a "father" who beat his 3 year old son to death while trying to "toughen him up". A few posts in that thread dealt with teaching your kids to fight in a safe and responsible way, ie. not when they're 3 and not beating them senseless.

I stated that when I have kids I'd teach them how to fight by buying them a speed bag, a heavy bag, some gloves, and training them, perhaps lightly sparring with them when they're teens, and enrolling them in a good, realistic martial arts school.

Does anyone think teaching one's kids to fight is irresponsible or unethical? Why?
Absolutely not. I think it's unethical NOT to teach your child (or have someone teach them) a method of unarmed self defense.

It doesn't have to be a "kick their butts" form, in fact Aikido is particularly effective when used by small children, but there are way too many creepy bastards out there to relegate your child to the status of "Passive Victim".

I've trained in traditional Jiu Jitsu for about 7 years now and in that time I have helped out when teaching young kids. Personally I think that children shouldn't enrol in a martial arts class until they are in their teens. Before this time the majority arent mature enough or dont have the concentration needed to benefit fully from what they are being shown.

On the other hand I dont think there is an age too early to start teaching a child how to be responsible as a fighter i.e. when to fight and how far to take it

Beating children is something you should go to jail over for a good while. No I don't think it is wrong to teach you children how to fight, as long as it is for them to be defensive. Martial Arts will teach them to be defensive. Take british rolay guards for example, they won't do anything untill you touch them. I think that's the way to be, IMHO.

Well, I did several years of martial arts in my early teens, but that was my own choice. I think the best thing is to teach them to avoid violence, though. Or hang out with tougher kids. That worked for me :D

Rule #1, always keep your thumb on the outside anytime you form your hand into a fist.

Rule #1, always keep your thumb on the outside anytime you form your hand into a fist.

Hehehe.

Rule #2, never extend your arm to the point where it is completely rigid when you throw a punch.

Slightly aside, I've noticed something: When schoolyard fights were commonplace, we didn't have school shootings...

My little hellspawn will learn to defend themselves, and when to fight. Knowing when, is as important as knowing HOW.

No, it's good to teach them martial arts. Because they won't use it as an offensive weapon and because it requires no material weapons they can use it any time.

Slightly aside, I've noticed something: When schoolyard fights were commonplace, we didn't have school shootings...

Are fights not still commonplace?

If not, you may have a point about students' pent-up anger. It's a case of many vs few though. Are many thousands of children injured to varying degrees of severity worth more or less than a dozen killed?

I've wondered what country your from for a while Oceandrive. Sometimes I think you're American, sometimes I think you're from some other country. Where are you from?Im from cali

Does anyone think teaching one's kids to fight is irresponsible or unethical? Why?

Why would it be "unethical" to teach your kid how to fight? Would it be more "ethical" for you all to teach your children how to get ass raped?

Are fights not still commonplace?

Not according to my Nieces. (Both entering jr. High this year...)


If not, you may have a point about students' pent-up anger. It's a case of many vs few though. Are many thousands of children injured to varying degrees of severity worth more or less than a dozen killed?

That's a good question to which I have no answer. It might be worth the work of a study or two, though.

Given the proper ethical framework, teaching your kids how to fight is fine. In fact, I might go so far as to say that it would irresponsible to bring them into the world and then not teach them how to deal with staying alive in it.