NationStates Jolt Archive

In prisons you have to eat what they make you eat.
Do as you're told.
Sit next to who you're told to sit next to.
But prisoners get pool tables!

That's nothing. Try showering in Cell Block C. Those guys are animals.

my son and i used to joke that the only obvious difference between the local highschool and a small prison was the lack of razor wire on the fence surrounding it.

That's nothing. Try showering in Cell Block C. Those guys are animals.

Disturbing...

my son and i used to joke that the only obvious difference between the local highschool and a small prison was the lack of razor wire on the fence surrounding it.
Ditto - except that this applied to Middle school most - of - all.

You can bring your lunch in school and the punishment for not doing as your told is much less harsh! :eek: And pool sucks. Yay for school.

"You dropped your books..."

*grin*

*yelp!*

We had fence with barbed wire around the top of it surrounding our high school and middle school

We had fence with barbed wire around the top of it surrounding our high school and middle school
We had a Freaking swamp & forrest surrounding ours. No barbed wire; but, ...

School is a place for children to learn. It's not meant to be Camp Cupcake. Of course you're told what to do. You're still a child, so grow up or shut up.

School is a place for children to learn. It's not meant to be Camp Cupcake. Of course you're told what to do. You're still a child, so grow up or shut up.

:rolleyes:

In prisons you have to eat what they make you eat.
Do as you're told.
Sit next to who you're told to sit next to.
But prisoners get pool tables!

Not really. In most highschools, you get a choice of school meals. Let's not forget the fact that you can bring your own lunch (a novel concept, I know), seniors get to go off campus in a large number of them, and assigned seating is rare.

Anyone who could compare a school to a prison certainly hasn't been in one of them.

School is a place for children to learn. It's not meant to be Camp Cupcake. Of course you're told what to do. You're still a child, so grow up or shut up.
Sheesh! Wasn't that just a tad ... harsh? Glad you weren't my drill instructor in Basic! ;)

School is a place for children to learn. It's not meant to be Camp Cupcake. Of course you're told what to do. You're still a child, so grow up or shut up.
Erm... well. I'll bite. To who is that directed? -- Granted there is a bit of whining in this thread, me as well.

It's directed at children who think they have a right to complain. Might as well be online. It would be nice if there weren't laws against the use of paddles in school.

It's directed at children who think they have a right to complain. Might as well be online. It would be nice if there weren't laws against the use of paddles in school.

As a sixteen year old who is, obviously, still a student, I’m going to have to agree with you on the paddles.

Hmm. You know - I should ask, what, where, etc. Is this the American public school system? College/University? General geographic location, state, etc?

School would be better if we got to pick whose class we were in and stuff.but we dont get to pick because we would'nt pay attention. It would be nice to pick wat we learned in history and science. But u have to learn a lot of variety. It would be nice to have teachers who werent so mean. but they r being stern. but some teachers r mean for no reasons.and some students r mean for no reason too. school teaches u about life.. we may not like school but we dont like everything that happens in life anyway.

School is a place for children to learn. It's not meant to be Camp Cupcake. Of course you're told what to do. You're still a child, so grow up or shut up.
yeah, be glad youre not put in the dungeon and only fed bread and water. its not like you have any HUMAN RIGHTS or need to be treated well in order to grow up to be a good citizen or anything.

It's directed at children who think they have a right to complain. Might as well be online. It would be nice if there weren't laws against the use of paddles in school.

. . .Because after all, we all know that the best way to teach our future citizens how to use rights responsibly is to deny them access to them at any time until they are 18, when adulthood is suddenly thrust upon them.

It would be nice if there weren't laws against the use of paddles in school.

Ah, middle school would have been much easier...as it stood at the time, I had to defend myself against an onslaught of students with 2 by 4s. An old friend of mine that I no longer keep in touch with once challenged half the 6th grade to a fight.
Good times, good times. Our school apparently wasn't big on law and order. Better to let students "express themselves." :rolleyes:

Schools have to have some control over the students. If they gave the students too much freedom, many of the students would exploit that freedom and it could get out of control. (Imagine college, except there is no finacial incintive to keep in good standing and the students are 1-8 years younger.) As for school lunches that is more of a finacing issue. If high schools gave unlimited choices we'd all be paying 10% of our income just to local taxes to keep the school system afloat.

It's directed at children who think they have a right to complain. Might as well be online. It would be nice if there weren't laws against the use of paddles in school.
First: My humble apologies: "Might as well be onlline." I do not quite get this, please elaborate.

"It's directed at children ... " & "It would be nice ..." even I think that there is more to complaining for the sake of complainging. A child does need to learn. And need to get past the "this is so cool, let's do it!" stage.

Please go on.

Schools have to have some control over the students. If they gave the students too much freedom, many of the students would exploit that freedom and it could get out of control. (Imagine college, except there is no finacial incintive to keep in good standing and the students are 1-8 years younger.) As for school lunches that is more of a finacing issue. If high schools gave unlimited choices we'd all be paying 10% of our income just to local taxes to keep the school system afloat.

Its called property tax.

. . .Because after all, we all know that the best way to teach our future citizens how to use rights responsibly is to deny them access to them at any time until they are 18, when adulthood is suddenly thrust upon them.

Well, it is obvious that the best way to teach our future citizens rights isn't to give 5 year olds a jug of alcohol, a pack of cigarrettes, a gun, and the keys to a car.

Actually the best way to teach them to use rights responsibly is to deny rights and teach them about what they are going to face before they face it. After becoming so used to living without rights they will come to realize the point of all of this. Rights are actually priveleges, and that is something that needs to be stressed.

School would be better if we got to pick whose class we were in and stuff.but we dont get to pick because we would'nt pay attention. It would be nice to pick wat we learned in history and science. But u have to learn a lot of variety. It would be nice to have teachers who werent so mean. but they r being stern. but some teachers r mean for no reasons.and some students r mean for no reason too. school teaches u about life.. we may not like school but we dont like everything that happens in life anyway.

Usually I don't care about the abuse of the english language on the web, but doesn't this case seem almost comical because of the context of the reply?

Ah, middle school would have been much easier...as it stood at the time, I had to defend myself against an onslaught of students with 2 by 4s. An old friend of mine that I no longer keep in touch with once challenged half the 6th grade to a fight.
Good times, good times. Our school apparently wasn't big on law and order. Better to let students "express themselves." :rolleyes:
LOL! Yeah, wish I had one meself at times, back then. Assuming *I* did & they did not ....

my son and i used to joke that the only obvious difference between the local highschool and a small prison was the lack of razor wire on the fence surrounding it.

Yeah, prison security is really loose these days. :D

Usually I don't care about the abuse of the english language on the web, but doesn't this case seem almost comical because of the context of the reply?
Like I said, they <ahem> learned us that in middleschool. ;)

Usually I don't care about the abuse of the english language on the web, but doesn't this case seem almost comical because of the context of the reply?

Eh, it is not that bad. I think that the bad english is intentional as a means to save time.

Bad grammar online, I hate it. Just type properly so when you gotta do term papers is easy. (Yeah I had a tough English teacher.)

LOL! Yeah, wish I had one meself at times, back then. Assuming *I* did & they did not ....

Real middle school tough guy-nerds are capable of defending themselves against a dozen attackers with nothing more than a pencil and a strand of string.
We then progress to studying nuclear weapons by our sophomore year of high school and succeed in scaring everyone that comes in contact with us. :p

Well, it is obvious that the best way to teach our future citizens rights isn't to give 5 year olds a jug of alcohol, a pack of cigarrettes, a gun, and the keys to a car.

Actually the best way to teach them to use rights responsibly is to deny rights and teach them about what they are going to face before they face it. After becoming so used to living without rights they will come to realize the point of all of this. Rights are actually priveleges, and that is something that needs to be stressed.
bold my own

Wow that's really creepy. Here I thought that rights were rights, all unalienible and what not.

Real middle school tough guy-nerds are capable of defending themselves against a dozen attackers with nothing more than a pencil and a strand of string.
We then progress to studying nuclear weapons by our sophomore year of high school and succeed in scaring everyone that comes in contact with us. :p
*LOL* - Thanks, I needed that. Indeed. :D

One should learn to the best of their knowledge. Yes, school can be dull, and the practices done there can seem to not even give you a benefit of activities in the future (Unless its a scholorship), but learning with your body and mind is good for the future.

School helps prepare kids for interacting with others, as well as gives them information about the world and possibly careers they can take in the future.
And plus, school food tastes good anyways.

As for my opinion of "Schools are Prisons".....not everyone likes school, of course, but still, you should still try it out and learn more about it and within it.

{*snip*}, you should still try it out and learn more about it and within it.
Well said.

Then drop out and start doing heroin*, guys. Jeez.

*yes, you must start doing heroin upon school drop-outtage.

bold my own

Wow that's really creepy. Here I thought that rights were rights, all unalienible and what not.

Let me put it this way, if you are a stupid a**hole then your rights are a threat to me and society. Few sensible people are pro-abortion(pro-choice maybe but not pro-abortion), few sensible people are pro-getting drunk and dying from too much booze, few sensible people are for lung cancer. The reason that we have these things as rights is because the majority of people do not abuse these priveleges to the point where it becomes a threat to society. In truth, certain things are wrong and ultimately have a societal cost, that is what we need to teach our children.

Then drop out and start doing heroin*, guys. Jeez.

*yes, you must start doing heroin upon school drop-outtage.
Of 'course if by "doing" you mean "selling" then I most certanly wish I did, at the time. If my chemistry course was up - to - snuff then I would have not been selling it. Just making it.

Let me put it this way, if you are a stupid a**hole then your rights are a threat to me and society. Few sensible people are pro-abortion(pro-choice maybe but not pro-abortion), few sensible people are pro-getting drunk and dying from too much booze, few sensible people are for lung cancer. The reason that we have these things as rights is because the majority of people do not abuse these priveleges to the point where it becomes a threat to society. In truth, certain things are wrong and ultimately have a societal cost, that is what we need to teach our children.

I'm not seeing how this ties in with the pro-corporal punishment argument my post was directed at.

Moreover, while I would agree that practical wisdom is a good thing for kids to have, I'm still not sure how clamping down on them in all possible ways increases their practical wisdom. You become more wise through experience, not someone telling you that something is bad. I heard all about alcohol from my parents, but I didn't drink because I had a bad experience with it once in high school.

One of my best friends used to go to a school with metal bars painted green seperating the roadway and the school. I think it was just to make sure nobody in the cars stole or ran over any middle school kids running around. Her mom's resorted to homeschooling again. As for me, I wouldn't know past that. My mom's homeschooled me my intire (?) life, for almost sixteen years my teacher's been my mom :p :D

One of my best friends used to go to a school with metal bars painted green seperating the roadway and the school. I think it was just to make sure nobody in the cars stole or ran over any middle school kids running around. Her mom's resorted to homeschooling again. As for me, I wouldn't know past that. My mom's homeschooled me my intire (?) life, for almost sixteen years my teacher's been my mom :p :D
There *are* some magnificent people in this world. I salute her.

I'm still not sure how clamping down on them in all possible ways increases their practical wisdom. You become more wise through experience, not someone telling you that something is bad. I heard all about alcohol from my parents, but I didn't drink because I had a bad experience with it once in high school.

I never drank because I had heard it was bad. I tend to think that clamping down on children does help them so long as you do not run their lives. Did your parents ever ask you about all of the details of what you were going to do before they let you go or were they more relaxed on that issue? Really it is not practical wisdom that children need but maturity that can be gained through solid punishment and great rewards for successes(hell and damnation for the children who do not act as they should and heavenly bliss for those who do). People always tend to do better when they know that good things get better results than the bad things.

Bad grammar online, I hate it. Just type properly so when you gotta do term papers is easy. (Yeah I had a tough English teacher.)

:D

:D
Boum dans les dents!!




BUT I AM NOT FRENCH!!
Even if I speak french... Ah, Canada...

:DFor those of you who haven't noticed, Kat's a teacher. (An English teacher or not, I'm not sure. Bad grammar intentional. :D) Thus, my arch-enemy.

High School = Hell. College = A fiery pit below Hell. Degree = what you get if you survive. ((Amazingly, 80%+ survive despite terrifyingly harsh conditions.))

For those of you who haven't noticed, Kat's a teacher. (An English teacher or not, I'm not sure. Bad grammar intentional. :D) Thus, my arch-enemy.

High School = Hell. College = A fiery pit below Hell. Degree = what you get if you survive. ((Amazingly, 80%+ survive despite terrifyingly harsh conditions.))

College is NOT that bad. You CHOOSE your major, you study what you like. I had the best time of my life there -- till I met my love, of course. ;)

College is NOT that bad. You CHOOSE your major, you study what you like. I had the best time of my life there -- till I met my love, of course. ;)

Do you mean it got worse after that? More like Czardas' Hell? :p

Boum dans les dents!!




BUT I AM NOT FRENCH!!
Even if I speak french... Ah, Canada...

A violent Canadian? I thought they did not exist!

Bang in yer teeth too, ya weirdo!

College is NOT that bad. You CHOOSE your major, you study what you like. I had the best time of my life there -- till I met my love, of course. ;)Oh Mod, I'm not looking forward to that time. ;)

And you're right, college isn't that bad. Just you have a lot of work. :rolleyes: Work = anathema.

Oh Mod, I'm not looking forward to that time. ;)

And you're right, college isn't that bad. Just you have a lot of work. :rolleyes: Work = anathema.

LOL, well, if that's the case, it's all downhill after your degree!

First: My humble apologies: "Might as well be onlline." I do not quite get this, please elaborate.

"It's directed at children ... " & "It would be nice ..." even I think that there is more to complaining for the sake of complainging. A child does need to learn. And need to get past the "this is so cool, let's do it!" stage.

Please go on.

When I said "Might as well be online", I meant the whining children who complain about school, and how they do it online.

Oh Mod, I'm not looking forward to that time. ;)

And you're right, college isn't that bad. Just you have a lot of work. :rolleyes: Work = anathema.

What a great deal! You get to go to school for 16 years, maybe 20 (or even 24), and then work until you die!

Do you mean it got worse after that? More like Czardas' Hell? :pActually I didn't originally imagine that as part of my Hell.

But I'll cite you. :P

With all this violence in the world, and school...its quite annoying. I say we all stop using fire arms and weapons of mass destruction, give the kid a sword, and have him sort out his problems.....but then again, thats the way of the Shinshouhen XD :headbang: You should be strong, and trust in yourself and your abilities :sniper: using fire arms will only show that you have no honor, and you will become a :rolleyes: person and have no idea :confused: about the world.

And thus, this is why they should serve ice cream machines in school cafeterias. If you cant find this relevant, I raise my sword to you.

All of you who complain about mean teachers should know that chances are you made them that way. I do some teaching. At the beginning you start out being very nice. Obviously, if you made the decision to become a teacher, chances are very high that you love kids. But kids take advantage of you because they sense your niceness as a weakness. So, the next year you become more strict. A few years into it, you no longer care whether the kids think you are nice and you would rather have a perfectly organized and functioning classroom where everyone hates you than a wild classroom where the kids think you are great but show you no respect. Some of us are able to find the middle ground where you have respect and order but arent a troll, but many dont and no longer care.

All of you who complain about mean teachers should know that chances are you made them that way. I do some teaching. At the beginning you start out being very nice. Obviously, if you made the decision to become a teacher, chances are very high that you love kids. But kids take advantage of you because they sense your niceness as a weakness. So, the next year you become more strict. A few years into it, you no longer care whether the kids think you are nice and you would rather have a perfectly organized and functioning classroom where everyone hates you than a wild classroom where the kids think you are great but show you no respect. Some of us are able to find the middle ground where you have respect and order but arent a troll, but many dont and no longer care.

I think you just showed the problem with libertarianism in your post.

Not really. In most highschools, you get a choice of school meals. Let's not forget the fact that you can bring your own lunch (a novel concept, I know), seniors get to go off campus in a large number of them, and assigned seating is rare.

In my school, because it is a private one. We must eat what they give us (the only other option is veggie choice which tastes of shit) and quite often there is assigned seating.

In prisons you have to eat what they make you eat.
Do as you're told.
Sit next to who you're told to sit next to.
But prisoners get pool tables!
Ah, but prisoners aren't allowed to leave after the day is done...

Usually I don't care about the abuse of the english language on the web, but doesn't this case seem almost comical because of the context of the reply?

You've got that right!

my son and i used to joke that the only obvious difference between the local highschool and a small prison was the lack of razor wire on the fence surrounding it.

You're high school didnt have razor wire on the fence surrounding it?

California schools really are bad, I suppose.

When I said "Might as well be online", I meant the whining children who complain about school, and how they do it online.

Oh, come off it! I'm no whining kid and if I want to whine I'll do it publically but I just wanted to make my own thread and I thought 'Schools are Prisons' would get people debating. It's also a mint song by The Sex Pistols.

my son and i used to joke that the only obvious difference between the local highschool and a small prison was the lack of razor wire on the fence surrounding it.

On which one?

Anyone who could compare a school to a prison certainly hasn't been in one of them.
There is one similarity: A big portion of those in there are just doing time, rather than trying to improve themselves. And that is a bad thing.

One of my best friends used to go to a school with metal bars painted green seperating the roadway and the school. I think it was just to make sure nobody in the cars stole or ran over any middle school kids running around. Her mom's resorted to homeschooling again. As for me, I wouldn't know past that. My mom's homeschooled me my intire (?) life, for almost sixteen years my teacher's been my mom :p :D

entire

I may sound like a hillbilly when I speak, but I have spellcheck for my printed word. I just compose all of my posts in word, double check the spelling and basic grammar, copy and paste. People probably think I graduated 6th grade.

In prisons you have to eat what they make you eat.
Do as you're told.
Sit next to who you're told to sit next to.
But prisoners get pool tables!

School isn't about doing what you want, when you want. It's about gaining an education and developing the self-control needed in adult life to get that education. If you think school is tough, wait until you become an official employed adult. Granted, I can eat what I want, assuming I have the time to eat or I'm not scheduled for another rubber chicken luncheon meeting. I, too, have to do as I am told by my boss and a board of directors. I sit and work at a desk in a pre-determined location. I don't choose who my co-workers are, and some of them are more than a little irritating. I've looked and looked, and we don't have a pool table either. I don't have the options of choir, band, drama, speech, sports, debate team, cheerleading, etc. I am afforded the opportunity to take work home in the evenings and on weekends, to attend public forum meetings until late at night, to drive rush hour traffic in all types of weather, not only during my commute, but also for data gathering, and to complete my work in a manner satisfactory to my boss, the board, and the federal government. And this is the cushiest job I have ever had!! Want to hear about my stint as a slaughter house accountant? Nah...you don't.

Life isn't about total free will. It's about doing what we have to do to provide, or in your case, prepare to provide, as comfortable a life for ourselves and our family as we are able. It requires sacrifice, hard work, and self discipline, but the alternative is much, much worse. Get it done!!

Anyone who could compare a school to a prison certainly hasn't been in one of them.

Maybe they went to a particularly nice prison and a particularly shitty school. *shrug*

That said, prison in general is a lot worse than school, or so I'm told by those who've been to both. On the other hand, students do have a lot of legal rights stripped away once they're on school property.

Maybe they went to a particularly nice prison and a particularly shitty school. *shrug*

That said, prison in general is a lot worse than school, or so I'm told by those who've been to both. On the other hand, students do have a lot of legal rights stripped away once they're on school property.

What "legal" rights specifically?

entire

I may sound like a hillbilly when I speak, but I have spellcheck for my printed word. I just compose all of my posts in word, double check the spelling and basic grammar, copy and paste. People probably think I graduated 6th grade.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with sounding like a hillbilly. It's people who think your accent affects your intelligence that have something wrong with them, IMO.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with sounding like a hillbilly. It's people who think your accent affects your intelligence that have something wrong with them, IMO.

Thank you. I hate to think how many people hear a southern accent and automatically equate it with lack of education, a leaning towards racism, and the notion that we attend church with rattlesnakes.

Edit: Please note that I do not know one single person that has ever been on the Jerry Springer show.

What "legal" rights specifically?

In particular I remember being divested of the right to carry a firearm (I don't own one, but still) and the right to defend myself in general, as well as the right to give myself any prescribed medication that I might need. I understand why these limitations are in place. The schools don't want to get sued by parents who just have to blame somebody for little Jimmy's accident.

I haven't read the part of law that spells out all freedoms you might sacrifice upon entering a public school recently, but I'm fairly sure there are others like being able to wear your hair how you want or grow a beard (those were the sorts of things they had rules on in my school), and though those aren't legal rights, it still seems silly to place those sorts of resrictions on students when they aren't really doing any harm.

Schools....hate them when you're there, miss them when you're gone...I really really miss high school life. Summer is just a dull drawl.

Schools....hate them when you're there, miss them when you're gone...I really really miss high school life. Summer is just a dull drawl.

Really? I find summer incredibly relaxing and interesting because I can mostly do what I want outside of work. I can read, study languages, plan for the future, and spend some quality time thinking about things.

School is mostly boring for me because I don't like all the social drama and most of my classes are dull and cover material I've already studied, so I tend not to be very enthused about school. :)

In particular I remember being divested of the right to carry a firearm (I don't own one, but still) and the right to defend myself in general, as well as the right to give myself any prescribed medication that I might need. I understand why these limitations are in place. The schools don't want to get sued by parents who just have to blame somebody for little Jimmy's accident.

I haven't read the part of law that spells out all freedoms you might sacrifice upon entering a public school recently, but I'm fairly sure there are others like being able to wear your hair how you want or grow a beard (those were the sorts of things they had rules on in my school), and though those aren't legal rights, it still seems silly to place those sorts of resrictions on students when they aren't really doing any harm.

The ban on firearms and fighting is also in place in most public places...for obvious reasons. Security forces are in most places to assure us safety from those who would wish to harm us. Try carrying a gun or fighting at a ballgame and see how quickly you are ejected. Schools have dress codes in place to minimize distraction. Similar restrictions are in place in the work place. I am required to wear business or business casual (depending on the schedule for the day), I must be carefully groomed, and must be modestly clothed. My husband, as a cabinet maker, is required to dress appropriately for his work to minimize risk of injury and to present an image that reflects well on his employer when seen my customers.

I remember when....

When I was in school, girls were required to wear dresses or skirts...no slacks or jeans. The hemline had to touch the floor when we kneeled. The skirt length rule was relaxed in my 11th grade year. My skirt lengths made a swift move to the north!! I wore miniskirts (and looked damn good in them) and panties that matched my poor boys (look that one up). ;) But, I still couldn't wear slacks as they were not "ladylike".

Really? I find summer incredibly relaxing and interesting because I can mostly do what I want outside of work. I can read, study languages, plan for the future, and spend some quality time thinking about things.

School is mostly boring for me because I don't like all the social drama and most of my classes are dull and cover material I've already studied, so I tend not to be very enthused about school. :)

I am studying new things in the summer, but the classes take up too little of my time, and they're usually cramped on Saturday. But maybe when August comes life will spice up a little - because I'm preparing to move to London!

I LOVE the social drama! Especially when I'm nominally involved and people feed me with very very very juicy pieces of news.

CCTV
Big Spiked fences
An automatic gate
Isolation rooms
Shit food

Seems like prison to me

I like my school o.o

Great, tasty AND healthy food, nice enviroment and not a long way from my home... what else do I need, when there are vending machines that can provide you with refreshments if needed?

The ban on firearms and fighting is also in place in most public places...for obvious reasons.

Such as what? We don't trust some people to act appropriately when they have freedom so those of us who do act appropriately lose our freedoms unnecessarily and are consequently in greater danger than those who do not act appropriately?

Security forces are in most places to assure us safety from those who would wish to harm us.

Honey, I don't know where you live, but in the places I've lived you better be able to protect yourself or you don't get protected in time for it to matter.

Schools have dress codes in place to minimize distraction.

Did I mention dress codes? I remember something about hair, but no clothing.

Similar restrictions are in place in the work place. I am required to wear business or business casual (depending on the schedule for the day), I must be carefully groomed, and must be modestly clothed. My husband, as a cabinet maker, is required to dress appropriately for his work to minimize risk of injury and to present an image that reflects well on his employer when seen my customers.

But you consent to those terms when you sign the contract with your employer, don't you? I did at my jobs.

When I was in school, girls were required to wear dresses or skirts...no slacks or jeans. The hemline had to touch the floor when we kneeled. The skirt length rule was relaxed in my 11th grade year. My skirt lengths made a swift move to the north!! I wore miniskirts (and looked damn good in them) and panties that matched my poor boys (look that one up). ;) But, I still couldn't wear slacks as they were not "ladylike".

Hehe. I can understand limiting the shortness of skirts, because as a heterosexual male I'm well aware of how distracting a short skirt can be, but most of the other stuff is only distracting to those in authority within the school. Do you honestly think that any of the kids in a public school find it distracting if I wear a beard or have big curly hair? :)

CCTV
Big Spiked fences
An automatic gate
Isolation rooms
Shit food

Seems like prison to me

Thank you! I was being eaten alive!

Originally Posted by Zooke
The ban on firearms and fighting is also in place in most public places...for obvious reasons.

Such as what? We don't trust some people to act appropriately when they have freedom so those of us who do act appropriately lose our freedoms unnecessarily and are consequently in greater danger than those who do not act appropriately?

There are always going to be people who will take advantage of an opportunity for unacceptable behavior. How are we able to distinguish the people who have harmful intent? If we could, and exercised extra control over them, wouldn't that be a violation of rights based on preconceived notions? Also, if this element wasn't a concern, why would anyone feel the need to carry firearms or fight?


Quote:
Security forces are in most places to assure us safety from those who would wish to harm us.

Honey, I don't know where you live, but in the places I've lived you better be able to protect yourself or you don't get protected in time for it to matter.

Granted, those charged with protecting us cannot always be everywhere they need to be. But, if we resorted to vigilante law in all situations, chaos would ensue. Can you imagine the collateral damage inflicted by a population armed with lethal force, defending themselves from every threat, real and imagined? I have 2 methods of self-defense in public places. First, I carry a cigarette where permitted. Attackers lose their focus if they have a burning ember stuck in their eye. Secondly, I carry the tote from hell, usually containing at least 1 book, PDA, MP3, cell phone, various files, calculator, and a bottle of Diet Pepsi. I could probably kill someone with a blow to the head with my purse, considering the weight of the loose change at the bottom of it. At home my husband has methods of defense that he is Marine trained to use. For myself, I'll stick with carefully placed knee placement...if I tried to use a gun someone would take it away from me and beat me with it.


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Schools have dress codes in place to minimize distraction.

Did I mention dress codes? I remember something about hair, but no clothing.

I was using the term "dress code" as it applies to all forms of "personal appearance". You're micro-analyzing.


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Similar restrictions are in place in the work place. I am required to wear business or business casual (depending on the schedule for the day), I must be carefully groomed, and must be modestly clothed. My husband, as a cabinet maker, is required to dress appropriately for his work to minimize risk of injury and to present an image that reflects well on his employer when seen my customers.

But you consent to those terms when you sign the contract with your employer, don't you? I did at my jobs.

Just as you agree to the terms of a public education. We must abide by rules to protect the rights of others, as well as ourselves, in all aspects of our lives, including in our educational system.


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When I was in school, girls were required to wear dresses or skirts...no slacks or jeans. The hemline had to touch the floor when we kneeled. The skirt length rule was relaxed in my 11th grade year. My skirt lengths made a swift move to the north!! I wore miniskirts (and looked damn good in them) and panties that matched my poor boys (look that one up). But, I still couldn't wear slacks as they were not "ladylike".

Hehe. I can understand limiting the shortness of skirts, because as a heterosexual male I'm well aware of how distracting a short skirt can be, but most of the other stuff is only distracting to those in authority within the school. Do you honestly think that any of the kids in a public school find it distracting if I wear a beard or have big curly hair?

As I was fully aware of the distraction the length of my skirts created. ;) Most likely, facial hair or hair style would not cause a major disruption after the initial reaction. Just as the sight of my fanny eventually became a common sight amongst a bunch of fannies and failed to cause an undue stir. You are probably restricted by outdated rules, just as I was by not being allowed to wear slacks or jeans. Unless you attend a school that requires that its students reflect an image indicitive of its curriculum.

In prisons you have to eat what they make you eat.
Do as you're told.
Sit next to who you're told to sit next to.
But prisoners get pool tables!

and in the USA you get the chair if you fail?

and in the USA you get the chair if you fail?

No, you just get put on pills

Thank you! I was being eaten alive!

Not my intention at all. When I was in school, I remember chafing under all the rules and longing for adulthood when I would finally be "free". Now, as an adult, I look back at my school years and wish that I had some of those freedoms back. If you view your school only in terms of food quality, decor, and restrictive time management, you're going to be miserable. If you open your perspective to include educational opportunities, social interaction, and extracurricular activities you'll enjoy it more and be better prepared for your future.

high school is tough :rolleyes:

if you can make it to year 10(8th~9th grade) then you are on the home stretch.
as soon as you get there it all gets better:
-detentions are eliminated for all actions except those next to illegal.
-you get to choose what extra subjects you take(on top of math, english, PE, science)
-classes begin to be streamed(you no longer get stuck with dumbass rednecks)
-you know the teachers well enough to sneak out of school with a slick excuse
-most of your peers have reached a similar maturity level, so they dont deliberately get in your face
-if you are friends with the teachers, then you get administrator rights on the school network

and most importatntly: teachers listen to you, and will allow you to take up class time in a debate or two

Yeah, school does suck.

I'm glad Australian schools don't resemble prisons (yet).

One big difference between prision and school. In prison you have to learn to survive, in school you don't have to learn anything. :D

One big difference between prision and school. In prison you have to learn to survive, in school you don't have to learn anything. :D

:p I know I shake my head in disbelief when I hear of our schools doing away with grades, critiques, and required levels of achievement in order to protect kids' delicate self-esteem. How is this preparing them for adulthood where everything from your quality of life to your social acceptance is based on your ability to achieve? Can you imagine demanding that your employer not base your employment on your skills and the quality of your work, that you not be forced to "work" all day, every day, to earn your wage, and that you not have to meet company goals or obey company rules? If we take away reward for achievement, how are we preparing them for real life?

On which one?
lol, i wondered if anyone would ask me that

we live in new mexico. we were driving the back roads of eastern arizona one day on a trip to las vegas. we came upon a building surrounded by a chainlink fence topped with razor wire that looked strikingly like the local socorro highschool. the only way to tell it was a minimum security prison and not an extremely rural school was the sign near the street and the razor wire.

we talked about that for a long time.

One of my best friends used to go to a school with metal bars painted green seperating the roadway and the school. I think it was just to make sure nobody in the cars stole or ran over any middle school kids running around. Her mom's resorted to homeschooling again. As for me, I wouldn't know past that. My mom's homeschooled me my intire (?) life, for almost sixteen years my teacher's been my mom :p :D

around here we call those "cattle guards". cows wont cross them

are you sure your friends mom just didnt overreact to a rual school with livestock problems?

if you can make it to year 10(8th~9th grade) then you are on the home stretch.
as soon as you get there it all gets better:
-detentions are eliminated for all actions except those next to illegal.
-you get to choose what extra subjects you take(on top of math, english, PE, science)
-classes begin to be streamed(you no longer get stuck with dumbass rednecks)
-you know the teachers well enough to sneak out of school with a slick excuse
-most of your peers have reached a similar maturity level, so they dont deliberately get in your face
-if you are friends with the teachers, then you get administrator rights on the school network

and most importatntly: teachers listen to you, and will allow you to take up class time in a debate or two

Are there alot of dumbass rednecks in new zealand?

:p If we take away reward for achievement, how are we preparing them for real life?

Unfortunately, we are not preparing them for real life. :(

Prison and school are not equivalent. School is designed to educate and prepare you for your future. Prison is to punish you for your past decisions.

In prison you have to worry about being raped, attacked,murdered, or if you successfully fend off your attacker, locked in solitary confinement.

In school you have to worry about being teased, taking test, possibly getting suspended and being grounded.

Overall there is only the merest shadow of correlation between school and prison. There are a few schools that do have a stronger correlation. Easily identifiable by metal detectors and lines where they "frisk" you before you go to class. I am assuming that is not the case for the starter of this thread.

Prison and school are not equivalent. School is designed to educate and prepare you for your future. Prison is to punish you for your past decisions.

Some prisons are designed to rehabilitate people and prepare the prisoners for their future.

In prison you have to worry about being raped, attacked,murdered, or if you successfully fend off your attacker, locked in solitary confinement.

In some inner-city schools you have to worry abot being raped, attacked, or murdered. If you successfully fend off your attacker you may find yourself in detention.

In school you have to worry about being teased, taking test, possibly getting suspended and being grounded.

In prison you have to worry about being teased and possibly being placed in lock-down or solitary.

Overall there is only the merest shadow of correlation between school and prison. There are a few schools that do have a stronger correlation. Easily identifiable by metal detectors and lines where they "frisk" you before you go to class. I am assuming that is not the case for the starter of this thread.

Perhaps the correlation is stronger than you first thought? :D

In prisons you have to eat what they make you eat.
Do as you're told.
Sit next to who you're told to sit next to.
But prisoners get pool tables!

Actually pool tables are pretty close to non existant anymore. The components make good weapons. That said you are much closer to right than you know. At least within the US there is a huge influx of educational employees moving to correctional enviorments for several different reasons and their presence is beginning to become visible. Prisons are a mere shadow of their former dungeon type slam door enviorment. Prison is now becoming a cash industry and many in education are finding it much more lucrative. The food is about the same, and the choices one makes each day are simillarly limited. The administration is of course simillarly dictatorial and they both have evolved to the extent that they are comfortable ignoring those that pay for their existance. Their charges, are shuffled through the system more as a number than an individual and the majority are only known by those in their immediate area and by the own supervisors.
The one thing I find the most troubling above all however, is that of the ex-teachers I have known who came to work in a correctional enviorment they have all had the very same reason. It is safer to work in the prison.

Some prisons are designed to rehabilitate people and prepare the prisoners for their future.



In some inner-city schools you have to worry abot being raped, attacked, or murdered. If you successfully fend off your attacker you may find yourself in detention.



In prison you have to worry about being teased and possibly being placed in lock-down or solitary.



Perhaps the correlation is stronger than you first thought? :D

The last lines of my post dealt with schools in high crime areas. They could state there their school is like a prison. I just think people, whose schools are not in those areas, whine way too often about their schools. What are they going to do when real life hits them.

I think the correlation for most schools in the US compared to most prisons in the US would be being roughly shoved to being stabbed. Now those of you from rough schools I do not minimize what you go through. This is addressed to those who would think there school life is so bad as to compare it to prison when it is not.

In particular I remember being divested of the right to carry a firearm (I don't own one, but still) and the right to defend myself in general, as well as the right to give myself any prescribed medication that I might need. I understand why these limitations are in place. The schools don't want to get sued by parents who just have to blame somebody for little Jimmy's accident.

I haven't read the part of law that spells out all freedoms you might sacrifice upon entering a public school recently, but I'm fairly sure there are others like being able to wear your hair how you want or grow a beard (those were the sorts of things they had rules on in my school), and though those aren't legal rights, it still seems silly to place those sorts of resrictions on students when they aren't really doing any harm.

Your school had rules on FACIAL HAIR?
My students think it's an infringement on their rights if we insist they actually, you know, wear clothes. Just about anything else goes in terms of personal style.

I have students with hair of every color under the rainbow, hair that's past the back of their knees (guys and girls), spiked, shaved, and piercings in every possible place visible. It's NOT a problem.

Of course, show up to class in a shirt saying "Fuck all _____" or "Kill all _______" and I might have a teensy problem. ;) That problem is related to the disruption it causes and safety of the student wearing it. (Yes, you have a right to express an opinion. I also have a right to teach my class and not have to spend the whole 40 minutes keeping the rest of the class from hurling insults and wanting to murder you. My other students have a right to learn without having to watch me prevent various factions from killing each other in the classroom.)

Usually in that case, a call home and a request that it not be worn to school again is sufficient.

Thank you. I hate to think how many people hear a southern accent and automatically equate it with lack of education, a leaning towards racism, and the notion that we attend church with rattlesnakes.

Edit: Please note that I do not know one single person that has ever been on the Jerry Springer show.

;) Bit of a stereotype there...
Just as long as you don't think because I grew up in Brooklyn, in Bensonhurst, I sound like the Sopranos, am connected to the Mafia, and there are bodies littering my front steps in the morning.

My students think it's an infringement on their rights if we insist they actually, you know, wear clothes. Just about anything else goes in terms of personal style.

Gah, I remember when they tried to implement a dress code at my school. (Or more correctly, when they put the plan up to the School Board and community) All they wanted to do is require all skin between knee and shoulder to be covered, no underwear to be exposed(and require it to be worn), and a requirement of width on tanktop straps(those darn spaghetti strings...).
No one wanted it besides the administration based at our school. I fear for what the students would have tried to pull off...

The next year, my (then) girlfriend wore a bandanna as a shirt. It fell off. :p

In prison you have to worry about being teased and possibly being placed in lock-down or solitary.


British schools have a punishment called isolation which is the same thing

There are always going to be people who will take advantage of an opportunity for unacceptable behavior. How are we able to distinguish the people who have harmful intent? Also, if this element wasn't a concern, why would anyone feel the need to carry firearms or fight?

Heh. I could ask those same questions with an implication that they support my point of view. :)

Granted, those charged with protecting us cannot always be everywhere they need to be. But, if we resorted to vigilante law in all situations, chaos would ensue. Can you imagine the collateral damage inflicted by a population armed with lethal force, defending themselves from every threat, real and imagined? I have 2 methods of self-defense in public places. First, I carry a cigarette where permitted. Attackers lose their focus if they have a burning ember stuck in their eye. Secondly, I carry the tote from hell, usually containing at least 1 book, PDA, MP3, cell phone, various files, calculator, and a bottle of Diet Pepsi. I could probably kill someone with a blow to the head with my purse, considering the weight of the loose change at the bottom of it. At home my husband has methods of defense that he is Marine trained to use. For myself, I'll stick with carefully placed knee placement...if I tried to use a gun someone would take it away from me and beat me with it.

So on the one hand you suggest that we shouldn't be resorting to this vigilanteism, and then you proceed to describe just how you are prepared to resort to it? :confused:

I was using the term "dress code" as it applies to all forms of "personal appearance". You're micro-analyzing.

Maybe. I'll leave that point where it lays for now.

Just as you agree to the terms of a public education. We must abide by rules to protect the rights of others, as well as ourselves, in all aspects of our lives, including in our educational system.

1. I never agreed to the terms of a public education, in large part because I had no legal or mental standing to consent to such terms at the time.

2. I wasn't aware that abiding by the rules necessarily protected the rights of others and ourselves. I have seen far to many cases of stupid, ineffective, and dowright harmful rules to believe that it is a good idea to obey the rules simply because they are the rules and people say they're there to protect our rights.

As I was fully aware of the distraction the length of my skirts created. ;) Most likely, facial hair or hair style would not cause a major disruption after the initial reaction. Just as the sight of my fanny eventually became a common sight amongst a bunch of fannies and failed to cause an undue stir. You are probably restricted by outdated rules, just as I was by not being allowed to wear slacks or jeans. Unless you attend a school that requires that its students reflect an image indicitive of its curriculum.

Hmm. I don't remember the rule being outdated except where the hair was concerned. The dress code was not conservative for the sake of being conservative, but there were some silly rules that occurred for silly reasons.

For example, flip-flops were not allowed because people could fall and hurt themselves. As if people can't fall and hurt themselves regardless of their footwear... :D

As to being indicative of the curriculum, let's just say...no. :D

My students think it's an infringement on their rights if we insist they actually, you know, wear clothes. Just about anything else goes in terms of personal style.

I'm sorry to say this, but children (everyone under 18) have the right to sit down and shut up. People are far too soft on their children, and I wonder why when I drive, or I see people who drive, I see teenagers act like idiots and senseless jerks everytime they pass a car. And the same can be said with large social gatherings. Their rights are being clothed, fed, sheltered, and educated. Not saying they need to be beaten, but my point is that children are children, and the reason for their behavior is their parents. If the parents cannot take care of a child, they shouldn't have had one in the first place; it was irresponsible. But if they do have a child, then put them in a goddamn child-care center. It's my problem when I see people being bothered by punk-ass children who think it is funny to kill their neighbor's pets or harass people on the streets.