NationStates Jolt Archive

I just wanted to have a poll to see which country is more liked by people on the forums. When you vote, please leave a reason as well, so we can have an Anglo-French debate, which seems to develop in other threads.

Vote on any grounds you wish: contributions to civilisation, the attitudes and peculiarities of either country or just because you like their flags...

Post away!

I just wanted to have a poll to see which country is more liked by people on the forums. When you vote, please leave a reason as well, so we can have an Anglo-French debate, which seems to develop in other threads.

Vote on any grounds you wish: contributions to civilisation, the attitudes and peculiarities of either country or just because you like their flags...

Post away!

Britain.

I live here, we don't speak French and Britain contributed nearly every important advancement to the world. France contributed cheese baguettes.

Britain. Best allies we Americans can ask for.


Seriously. Anyone else would just laugh at us and say "haha, your kidding right?"

France. Blessed Albion doesn't seem so great when you're on the business end of the world empire stick.

Britain. Its great. I dont know why I think this, I've just always had a better feeling about Britain than France. :p

Britain

*sniff* I'm all alone...

Britain.

I live here, we don't speak French and Britain contributed nearly every important advancement to the world. France contributed cheese baguettes.

Yeah, but the cheeky bastards nicked the idea of French bread in the first place. It was British, the damn Frenchies nicked it. And Chirac insults our food when they havent got any good of their own. If I wanted to eat snails I would go to my garden, not France!

If I may point out, many of the posters in this forum are from the UK, and we are all English-speakers. The poll results will be biased.
I voted France, because my family is from there and it is a beautiful country, but I have no doubt that I will be in the minority.

In case anyone didn't know, when the French army surrendered in 1940 it actually had more soldiers in it than when the war begain.

Just thought you'd like to know :D

If I may point out, many of the posters in this forum are from the UK, and we are all English-speakers. The poll results will be biased.
I voted France, because my family is from there and it is a beautiful country, but I have no doubt that I will be in the minority.
...Gee, maybe that answers the question "What country do we PREFER?"

France, though i am friends to many englishmen, in fact i have many relatives living in England, but i have always felt more comfortable in France, and had more fun in general with their people. Their culture is more vibrant and colorful, and their food and wine is much better. ;) no offense to the Brits, i myself owe your queen my alegiance, being an Austrailian citizen. =)

In case anyone didn't know, when the French army surrendered in 1940 it actually had more soldiers in it than when the war begain.

Just thought you'd like to know :D

Thats quite funny. Not very relevant, but as a proud Brit I'm always open to a good old laugh at the french!

*Goes off to buy Paris 2012 shirt :D*

Brittain. they are great allies in the war on terror, and have been great allies since WWI. France...well...we can always make fun of them for their losses in various wars. But france just sits there and makes us cleanse the world for them.

Is there a way to pick both?

Brittain. they are great allies in the war on terror, and have been great allies since WWI. France...well...we can always make fun of them for their losses in various wars. But france just sits there and makes us cleanse the world for them.

Oh so what you want is to cleanse the world, oh yes, how dare the French refuse to assist you in "cleansing" the world.

The one thing that really gets me about France is the way they insist that the whole country must be completely homogenous. The worst example of this is their efforts to exterminate regional French languages, like Provencal, Basque, Alsatian, Brehzneg (from Brittany) and several more. Spain has 4 official languages, yet it's still one country.

Oh so what you want is to cleanse the world, oh yes, how dare the French refuse to assist you in "cleansing" the world.

Amusing American opinions on foreign policy! :rolleyes:

I'm going with Psov on this. No one asked America or Britain to "cleanse" the world, least of all France. But this isn't a debate on the war on terror.

I'm going with Psov on this. No one asked America or Britain to "cleanse" the world, least of all France. But this isn't a debate on the war on terror.

Yes, dont anyone dare make it. I'm bored of it and if I wanted to slag off Bush I would go to the myriad of threads designed for it!

France sucks, nuff said.

Oh, so trivial! And all the usual silly prejudice, no doubt.

But OK: France!

After all, we British favour the underdog. Besides, the girls from across the channel have more style, and fewer problems with alcohol. Or so it seems to me.

Neither head of government—or state—is particularly appealing just now, but there are worse, far, far worse, not too far further from (and in some cases closer to) home. At least both nations had the sense to see that monarchical heads may roll when they impede history.

In food and other matters—think and cook for yourself!

yes but it was inevitable that a poll between France and the UK would raise the topic considereing strong feelings about the French led coalition against the war. what i find so frustrating is the Americain general response is that France and Germany and Russia were "telling us what to do with our military," by opposing the war, when in fact they were doing no such thing, quite the contrary the United States was telling their allies to send troops in support of the war, the only ones who were interfering in anyones foreign policy were the war hawks in the United States. And then the refusal to rally around Britain in the US was taken as a personal insult, and viewed as ungrateful, why on earth would we expect a foreign country to send their citizens to death in a war the entire nation was opposed to? it doesn't make any sense, in my opinion it has been all a massive cultural misunderstanding that has caused such strong anti-americain and anti-french sentiments on both sides of the Atlantic.

You know, its interesting that people make fun of France for surrendering to Nazi Germany, no one ever gets on the German's case for starting the war in the first place.

You know, its interesting that people make fun of France for surrendering to Nazi Germany, no one ever gets on the German's case for starting the war in the first place.

How do I express disbelief/disgust with that last post?


It may not have occurred to you that for one we do and two it wasnt exactly the same Germans. 1940s - Indoctrinated Nazi Germans. 2005 - Normal Germans

1940s - Normal French. 2005 - Normal French

Britain.

I live here, we don't speak French and Britain contributed nearly every important advancement to the world. France contributed cheese baguettes.

I am British but I have a good liking for the French. They respect intellectuals (unlike my own country), have a deep belief in the separation of church and state (or religion and politics) and deeply resent overbearing nannying directives from government or Brussels. They have a downside in that society is very conformist and there remains a nasty jingoistic hangover from both being a colonial power and from 1940, but all countries have their downsides.

The reason everyone makes fun of France surrendering is because it was far from defeated. They abandoned their capital without a fight, and their army and airforce continued to grow until the day they surrendered.

I'm sure when the Germans voted for Hitler in 1933 they weren't expecting him to start another war. But that's going off-topic.

Britain has the Proms :D

Amusing American opinions on foreign policy! :rolleyes:

Wait a second, hold the phone...America has a foreign policy?

The French have their nose stuck in the air and are very aloof. The Brits are down to earth friendly people. They treat you as an equal not as someone who is beneath them.

Wait a second, hold the phone...America has a foreign policy?

Yes but I'm not sure quite who makes it. Im sure hes a very strange man and probably lives in Area 51

The French have their nose stuck in the air and are very aloof. The Brits are down to earth friendly people. They treat you as an equal not as someone who is beneath them.

heh that's a generalization and stereotype if i've ever heard one, how many Frenchmen do you know? I sure wouldn't want to meet any of them they sound like very unpleasant people, i'm sure most French People wouldn't want to meet them either.

Britain, because we're amazing. I'm fond of France before the 20th Century, however; what with the revolution, Napoleon (I, not III, who was a wank), Dumas and Hugo.

How do I express disbelief/disgust with that last post?


It may not have occurred to you that for one we do and two it wasnt exactly the same Germans. 1940s - Indoctrinated Nazi Germans. 2005 - Normal Germans

1940s - Normal French. 2005 - Normal French

No need to get snippy. As for your first comment: I hear a lot more folks ragging on the French than the Germans.

Per your second comment, on the difference between 1940 and 2005: France in 1940 was a lot different from modern France as well. Given that almost all of World War I was fought on French soil, it's understandable if they'd be less than eager for more of the same.

Secondly, perhaps its not occurred to YOU that the Vichy French government surrendered without due democratic process, IE they capitulated without any input from their citizens. The Free French Resistence was active through all World War II, suggesting that some of them still had some fight left in them.

So in conclusion, both your statements are innaccurate, and I've found the best way to express disbelief/disgust is through ALL CAPS LOCK LIKE THIS AND A BUNCH OF EXCLAMATION MARKS PEPPERED WITH SOME 1'S AS WELL1!1!!!!!!1111!!!!!!!!!

And how many Germans voted to go to war exactly? The war was no more the average Germans fault than it is the fault of the French for their surrender

And how many Germans voted to go to war exactly? The war was no more the average Germans fault than it is the fault of the French for their surrender

That's absolutely correct. Making fun of the French for surrendering is as pointless and insulting as blaming your average Ger-man for starting WWII.

Granted, it IS really fun to mock the French....

Well, if you look at it from any way, what country would I prefer, Britain, or France?

The British invented perfectly useable measuring systems called Inches, Ounces, and Pints, the French ripped that idea off with Centimetres, Litres, and Grams. Seriously, the French in this sense want to outdo the British with a more convenient way of measuring things, which I will be blunt about, is better, as it is more accurate. However, the French haven't invented anything special apart from the Eiffel Tower. Fish and Chips is British (despite the Spanish saying otherwise), English is the most spoken language in the world (not French), and their cuisine of Roast Dinners completely surpasses Snails, Frogs Legs, and Brie. Another thing, Cheese originally was invented in England, NOT FRANCE!

On another note, only Britain dominated the 85% of the planet with the British Empire, not the French, in fact, only one part of Canada is french, and that's Quebec. Look at Australia, it's practically a second Britain thanks to Britain sending their convicts there. Not only that, I'd personally watch The Ashes between England and Australia than some french sport. I don't really think (although I don't know this, so I could well be wrong folks) the french even invented a world popular sport, except maybe Croquet by the spelling of it, but that could well be British! Who knows? Because I don't! XD

I'm going Britain all the way. Although I wouldn't suggest "living here", I want to go to the "second Britain" after university. ^_^

Besides, just to put a better point in, who's hosting the 2012 Olympic Games? Paris wasn't it? XD (Blatent ignorance, gomen ne).

Ian McDiarmid']
On another note, only Britain dominated the 85% of the planet with the British Empire, not the French

Let me say again, that sounds all fun and dandy unless you're the one being drawn into the empire?

Ever hear of the Opium Wars? Or the Boer Wars? The legacy of the British Empire is war and profiteering, not glory and heroism.

i voted for france

part for that france has ment more for swedens (and europes for that matter) evolution (mostly during the 1700th century) than britain has. (but britain has ment more during the 1800th century)

and part for their courage to stand up against america and britain and their war against terrrorists.


besides. sat images of area 51 shows whats most likley a development ground for aircrafts, i highly doubt the area is really used anymore (dosnt the us have about 500 bases they dont use anymore?)

tsk tsk.....so politically and militarily minded. So little do you think of culture, and well, peaceful things.

The French are responsible for so much that is beautiful in the world, yet they are given no credit.

Ian McDiarmid']Well, if you look at it from any way, what country would I prefer, Britain, or France?

The British invented perfectly useable measuring systems called Inches, Ounces, and Pints, the French ripped that idea off with Centimetres, Litres, and Grams. Seriously, the French in this sense want to outdo the British with a more convenient way of measuring things, which I will be blunt about, is better, as it is more accurate. However, the French haven't invented anything special apart from the Eiffel Tower. Fish and Chips is British (despite the Spanish saying otherwise), English is the most spoken language in the world (not French), and their cuisine of Roast Dinners completely surpasses Snails, Frogs Legs, and Brie. Another thing, Cheese originally was invented in England, NOT FRANCE!

On another note, only Britain dominated the 85% of the planet with the British Empire, not the French, in fact, only one part of Canada is french, and that's Quebec. Look at Australia, it's practically a second Britain thanks to Britain sending their convicts there. Not only that, I'd personally watch The Ashes between England and Australia than some french sport. I don't really think (although I don't know this, so I could well be wrong folks) the french even invented a world popular sport, except maybe Croquet by the spelling of it, but that could well be British! Who knows? Because I don't! XD

I'm going Britain all the way. Although I wouldn't suggest "living here", I want to go to the "second Britain" after university. ^_^

Besides, just to put a better point in, who's hosting the 2012 Olympic Games? Paris wasn't it? XD (Blatent ignorance, gomen ne).
wait wait wait, cheese was invented where? i'm pretty sure it was the Romans that invented the first recorded form of cheese, rennet, from fig and thistle flowers, and the gauls were the first to begin experimenting with rennet, explaining why France has 246 varieties of cheese. As for sports, the modern olympics were revived by France, it was the French who first pushed for a modern international version. Professional skiing originated in France in the 1800's, having gotten the idea from swiss mountaineers. I could pick over all your ignorant statements, but it hardly seems worth my time since you probably won't even respond to my reply. *sigh*

Let me say again, that sounds all fun and dandy unless you're the one being drawn into the empire?

Ever hear of the Opium Wars? Or the Boer Wars? The legacy of the British Empire is war and profiteering, not glory and heroism.

The legacy of the British Empire is democracy, the rule of law, the right to private property and our lanugage. Look at Australia, New Zealand, India or Canada.

You might like to know that France is the only country to still control large areas of land overseas (French Guiana), and as France is an indivisible Republic, self-determination isn't even an option.

The legacy of the British Empire is democracy, the rule of law, the right to private property and our lanugage. Look at Australia, New Zealand, India or Canada.

You might like to know that France is the only country to still control large areas of land overseas (French Guiana), and as France is an indivisible Republic, self-determination isn't even an option.

So basically democracy, rule of law and the right to private property for white people only, huh?

Now here you might say, "What about India?" Well in British India Indians themselves were discriminated against and treated as second class citizens; so much for democracy and rule of law.

Where was democracy and rule of law when the British government all but smuggled opium into China themselves? Where was democracy and rule of law when they massacred the Zulus? Where was democracy and rule of law when they sent pox-infected blankets to the Native American tribes? Where was democracy and rule of law when they carved up the Middle East into the raging shitstorm it is today?

It's no contest, Britain has contributed so much to the world and many democracies are based on the British model

Britain created modern India. Today it is the world's largest democracy.

That's true as well. Given, the British aren't ALL that bad, but I'd rather tour the Louvre before Buckingham Palace.

To be honest, you can't really compare Buckingham Palace with the Louvre. One is the residence of the head of state, the other is a museum.

If you do want to go to museums though, I suggest you visit the British Museum. It is incomparable :D

It's no contest, Britain has contributed so much to the world and many democracies are based on the British model
but the who experimented with democracy first, i believe it was the French, and the french revolution was the first in europe that's expected outcome was democracy. Revolutions that followed in Europe were modelled after the French revolution and the governments that followed were as well. Where after all does the traditional democratic left and democratic right come from? It was the seating at l'assembly nationale the conservatives sat on the right, the more liberal on the left. So much modern political devices are French in origin, because of the revolutions impact on the world.

To be honest, you can't really compare Buckingham Palace with the Louvre. One is the residence of the head of state, the other is a museum.

If you do want to go to museums though, I suggest you visit the British Museum. It is incomparable :D

Well i believe you'll find that Versailles is generally much more impressive than buckingham, and that the British Museum, is actually not at all highly regarded when compared with the louvre, so saying it is incomparable is, though a matter of opinion, considerably inaccurate.

Oh so what you want is to cleanse the world, oh yes, how dare the French refuse to assist you in "cleansing" the world.

not to put words in anyone's mouth, but i think that (s)he was referring to terrorism.

Question:

What are the must-see attractions in England?

So basically democracy, rule of law and the right to private property for white people only, huh?

Now here you might say, "What about India?" Well in British India Indians themselves were discriminated against and treated as second class citizens; so much for democracy and rule of law.

Where was democracy and rule of law when the British government all but smuggled opium into China themselves? Where was democracy and rule of law when they massacred the Zulus? Where was democracy and rule of law when they sent pox-infected blankets to the Native American tribes? Where was democracy and rule of law when they carved up the Middle East into the raging shitstorm it is today?

And the French were of course doing everything to help the coloured man at that time. Jeez!!!!

Well of course, the French did more or less the same thing. This is more of a case of the lesser of two evils.

Question:

What are the must-see attractions in England?

Stone Hendge, Tower of London, Bath, Warick castle and the most important attraction the whole country. The thing about France is that it is a museum piece. There is very little being created there, that happens in England.

The Imperial War Museum
The Tower of London
Westiminister Abbey
St. Pauls
Palace of Westiminister
Buckingham's worth a visit
as is Hampton Court
The Royal Opera (spectacular)
The restored Globe theatre on bankside

Well of course, the French did more or less the same thing. This is more of a case of the lesser of two evils.

No they didn't do more or less the same thing, they did the same thing. The killed burned raped and pillaged like the British did. The British empire may have been bigger but tell me something how many French colonies have had any sucess in recent times? You know like Malaysia, Singapore, Hongkong. It's mostly heir own work but the legacy that was left by the British empire was a stable political climate.

The Imperial War Museum
The Tower of London
Westiminister Abbey
St. Pauls
Palace of Westiminister
Buckingham's worth a visit
as is Hampton Court
The Royal Opera (spectacular)
The restored Globe theatre on bankside
Of course most of these are eclipsed by their French counterparts

but the who experimented with democracy first, i believe it was the French, and the french revolution was the first in europe that's expected outcome was democracy. Revolutions that followed in Europe were modelled after the French revolution and the governments that followed were as well. Where after all does the traditional democratic left and democratic right come from? It was the seating at l'assembly nationale the conservatives sat on the right, the more liberal on the left. So much modern political devices are French in origin, because of the revolutions impact on the world.

Not really. Britain was a republic from 1649 to 1660, becuase the King got too big for his boots. Although the monarchy was restored, it had almost no power, making Britain effectively the first major country in Europe to governed by a parliament, as opposed to a monarch. The British system of constitutional monarchy has been much more stable than the French republics, they're on their Fifth at the moment :p

France only gave women the vote in 1960. So much as standard bearers for democracy...

Not really. Britain was a republic from 1649 to 1660, becuase the King got too big for his boots. Although the monarchy was restored, it had almost no power, making Britain effectively the first major country in Europe to governed by a parliament, as opposed to a monarch. The British system of constitutional monarchy has been much more stable than the French republics, they're on their Fifth at the moment :p

France only gave women the vote in 1960. So much as standard bearers for democracy...

I was reffering to the spirit of revolution and insurrection as well as political experimentation more than actual democracy, i acknowledge shortcomings in some areas...

Of course most of these are eclipsed by their French counterparts

Well, if you like over-the-top Baroque buildings then yes.

But the comment about France being a museum is fairly accurate. In Britain we have the London Eye, the Eden Project and the Tate Modern. What does France have?

France lost any potential in being a good country after World War 1.

Well, if you like over-the-top Baroque buildings then yes.

But the comment about France being a museum is fairly accurate. In Britain we have the London Eye, the Eden Project and the Tate Modern. What does France have?

The Center Pompidou, the Zenith, Le grande arch de la Defence and les Galleries de la Defence, The Bastille Contemporary Opera theatre, ect..

Although we don't make as many cars as France, our auto industry is much more prestigious, and contains much more variety. All the best luxury and sports car manafacturers are based in Britain, not to mention our dominance of F1. While Britain has Rolls-Royce, Bentley, Jaguar, Daimler, Land Rover, Aston Martin, Lotus, as well as a host of specialist firms, France has Renault, Peugeot and Citroen.

Britain. After a careful study of military history.

And I, well... am British.

No they didn't do more or less the same thing, they did the same thing. The killed burned raped and pillaged like the British did. The British empire may have been bigger but tell me something how many French colonies have had any sucess in recent times? You know like Malaysia, Singapore, Hongkong. It's mostly heir own work but the legacy that was left by the British empire was a stable political climate.

Stable political climate? Malaysia? Yeah right.

And have you heard of a little country called Iraq? Ring any bells? Oh oh, and they certainly did a bang-up job with the Palestinian protectorate, didn't they?

Britain. After a careful study of military history.


"Attack them with the pointy end of the thing!"

And don't forget Egypt, and Kenya, Zimbabwe, Pakistan, the list goes on....

you need a "neither" choice, both countries suck.

Britain, they didn't puss out after 6 weeks of WW2.

Britain is a lot cooler. The only cool thing I remember France doing is almost invading all of Europe in the days of Napolean. Britain on the other hand had a massive empire until they let it all go after WW2. Britain has also made great contributions to the area of comedy and started the Industrial Revolution.

As a European with a dual citizenship, I am unable to pick. These two, along with Germany, are by far my least favourable countries in Europe. I'd even pick Turkey over them.

But there are so many wonderful countries of Europe: Norway, Switzerland, Portugal, Belgium, even Latvia and Czechia (usually for some reason referrred to as "Cz. Rep.").

Nay, by no means either Britain or France -- or indeed North America, but if it were a punishment and I had to choose lesser of the two evils, it'd probably be some corner of France where Dutch is still spoken around Lille, or some wind-swept, stormy islet off the coast of Scotland.

Although we don't make as many cars as France, our auto industry is much more prestigious, and contains much more variety. All the best luxury and sports car manafacturers are based in Britain, not to mention our dominance of F1. While Britain has Rolls-Royce, Bentley, Jaguar, Daimler, Land Rover, Aston Martin, Lotus, as well as a host of specialist firms, France has Renault, Peugeot and Citroen.
!
R-R: Owned by Germans.
Bentley: Owned by Germans.
Jaguar: Owned by Americans.
Daimler: Does that even exist still?
Land Rover: Americans?
AM: Yay! I like that company.
Lotus: Yay! I like that company even more. (even though it's owned by Malaysians)

Renault: Big all by itself and works together with Nissan.
Peugeot: No idea...Citroen neither.

Hehe....and who rules F1 right now? That's right, Renault...followed by Mercedes....followed by Ferrari........
==============================================
Anyways...I don't like having to choose.
Both have contributed much to Europe and the world. But just in light of recent history and politics, as a German I think the French are more reliably our friends.

I pick Israel :)

I am British but I have a good liking for the French. They respect intellectuals (unlike my own country), have a deep belief in the separation of church and state (or religion and politics) and deeply resent overbearing nannying directives from government or Brussels. They have a downside in that society is very conformist and there remains a nasty jingoistic hangover from both being a colonial power and from 1940, but all countries have their downsides.

Very well said ;)

I am myself half French and do share entirely the views from my good friend Syawla. I would however like to point out that Britain, undeniably, contributed to the world in many aspects and it would just be ridiculous not to recognize those achievements.
Furthermore, I believe we should stop thinking only nationally and should agree that UNITY MAKES STRENGTH and the only way forward (even if it is very difficult these days) is through a united, compassionate and prosperous Europe.

Furthermore, I believe we should stop thinking only nationally and should agree that UNITY MAKES STRENGTH and the only way forward (even if it is very difficult these days) is through a united, compassionate and prosperous Europe.
Hear Hear!!!

As a European with a dual citizenship, I am unable to pick. These two, along with Germany, are by far my least favourable countries in Europe. I'd even pick Turkey over them.

But there are so many wonderful countries of Europe: Norway, Switzerland, Portugal, Belgium, even Latvia and Czechia (usually for some reason referrred to as "Cz. Rep.").

Nay, by no means either Britain or France -- or indeed North America, but if it were a punishment and I had to choose lesser of the two evils, it'd probably be some corner of France where Dutch is still spoken around Lille, or some wind-swept, stormy islet off the coast of Scotland.


TURKEY IS MUCH BETTER THAN WHAT YOU THINK! ACTUALLY LOOK BACK AT THE GREAT LEADER ATATURK AND YOU WILL BETTER UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH YOU ARE IGNORANT!!!

As a European with a dual citizenship, I am unable to pick. These two, along with Germany, are by far my least favourable countries in Europe. I'd even pick Turkey over them.

But there are so many wonderful countries of Europe: Norway, Switzerland, Portugal, Belgium, even Latvia and Czechia (usually for some reason referrred to as "Cz. Rep.").

Nay, by no means either Britain or France -- or indeed North America, but if it were a punishment and I had to choose lesser of the two evils, it'd probably be some corner of France where Dutch is still spoken around Lille, or some wind-swept, stormy islet off the coast of Scotland.


TURKEY IS MUCH BETTER THAN WHAT YOU THINK! ACTUALLY LOOK BACK AT THE GREAT LEADER ATATURK AND YOU WILL BETTER UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH YOU ARE IGNORANT!!! TURKEY GRANTED TO WOMEN THE RIGHT OF VOTE IN THE 1920s, MUCH BEFORE ANY EUROPEAN COUNTRY AND MUCH BEFORE BOTH FRANCE AND BRITAIN!!! YOU SEE, THERE ARE OTHER COUNTRIES THAT CAN ALSO BE PROUD OF CERTAIN THINGS AND NOBODY HAS THE RIGHT TO PUT FORWARD THIS DISGUSTING JINGOISM WHICH COMPLETELY DENIGRATES AND DOWNGRADES OTHER CULTURES

heh that's a generalization and stereotype if i've ever heard one, how many Frenchmen do you know? I sure wouldn't want to meet any of them they sound like very unpleasant people, i'm sure most French People wouldn't want to meet them either.

Well I have met some of the French, and have the distinct un-pleasure of have to work with some of them. (stereotype warning) Most French don't like anyone except the French, and they are not very sure about them. :eek:

I’ve also met several Brits, and had the pleasure of visiting England. Fine upstanding friendly people.

Well I have met some of the French, and have the distinct un-pleasure of have to work with some of them. (stereotype warning) Most French don't like anyone except the French, and they are not very sure about them. :eek:

I’ve also met several Brits, and had the pleasure of visiting England. Fine upstanding friendly people.

if by un-pleasure you mean displeasure then i feel very sympathetic towards you. Most French People are not like this and i am sorry your opinion has been affected by these select few unpleasant ones. I myself have never met a single Frenchmen whom i didn't find polite, understanding, friendly, and straightfoward. Except for a particularly nasty weightor who pushed the table on my foot in Paris when i was taking my seat. He's the exception.

Ian McDiarmid']..., English is the most spoken language in the world (not French),

Not quite. Either Chinese or Spanish is number one, I can't remember which but I think Spanish. Certainly, English is more spoken than French, and is the international language of business and aviation.

Stable political climate? Malaysia? Yeah right.

And have you heard of a little country called Iraq? Ring any bells? Oh oh, and they certainly did a bang-up job with the Palestinian protectorate, didn't they?

Just further proof that imperalism was ended too soon. Call it puppeting if you want, but those areas of the world should have been molded and shaped a lot better before they were set out on themselves, plus with ownership youd have countries more willing to spend money in places like africa.

Think about it...save a few areas in Africa, they are all dictatorships run by corrupt people that neglect everything and fail to exploit their natural resources..a perfect example is Zimbabwe, used to be the bread basket of Africa.....now idiots got into power the country cant even feed itself anymore because they "collectized" the farms (stole) and now destroy large parts of their own cities trying to push out political rivals....Does this sound like a country able to handle itself? Nope.

There is nothing wrong with an advanced country "ruling" lesser ones for a while, it is like a parent-child relationship but we all know everybody is twitch responce to be negative to Imperalism..but really imperalism is a good thing and you only have to look at history to see this as fact because it spreads technology and spreads ideas and better things to the lesser countries much more faster then if you just left those countries on their own.

If you do want to go to museums though, I suggest you visit the British Museum. It is incomparable :D

Haven't been there yet, but the Prado in Madrid is great.

but the who experimented with democracy first,

Greece, Rome. Does that ring a bell?

Question:

What are the must-see attractions in England?

The cathedral in Ely. Beautiful. (PS I'm not a Brit)

France.

:D Britain is a wonderful place as well, but I have quite a few French friends, and simply more ties to France than Britain, for purely personal reasons. :)

Viva la France!

The British don't have a very good record:

There was all the Americans they killed in the War of Independence.

They killed a thousands of my countrymen (New Zealanders) and Australians by sending them in to attack at Gallipoli during World War 1, where our soldiers were greeted with a cliff face to climb and a whole lot of Turks up top shooting them.

They think they are good at soccer but they actually suck.

They killed millions of Irish and stole their good land when they invaded them, and split Ireland into two countries. Since their good land was gone they were left with just potatoes! And then when the potato crop failed a whole lot more of them died! And now there is still fighting going on in Ireland between the catholic Republic of Ireland and the protestant Northern Ireland.

The split up the Ottoman Empire into the hundreds of countries that the Middle East now is, by invading them as well. The Ottoman Empire was peaceful, and now there is lots of fighting in the Middle East.

And who can understand them?

I was reffering to the spirit of revolution and insurrection as well as political experimentation more than actual democracy, i acknowledge shortcomings in some areas...

Some areas???? How about many areas. Why is it the French are so insecure they have to make up words for technoligical words that are not French?

Well, I believe a poll done about one year said that 58% of the people on NS were Americans and the second largest group were citizens or residents of the United Kingdom with approx. 20%. That being said as most people know there is little love for France right now in America so we won't likely vote for France. Patriotism will likely prevent Brits from voting against themselves so I predict that the UK wins in a land slide.

Not quite. Either Chinese or Spanish is number one, I can't remember which but I think Spanish. Certainly, English is more spoken than French, and is the international language of business and aviation.

I'm not sure if you are right there either. Spanish and Chinese are top, correct. But French is spoken very widely throughout Africa, I would be suprised if English was spoken by more people.

Just further proof that imperalism was ended too soon. Call it puppeting if you want, but those areas of the world should have been molded and shaped a lot better before they were set out on themselves, plus with ownership youd have countries more willing to spend money in places like africa.

There is nothing wrong with an advanced country "ruling" lesser ones for a while, it is like a parent-child relationship but we all know everybody is twitch responce to be negative to Imperalism..but really imperalism is a good thing and you only have to look at history to see this as fact because it spreads technology and spreads ideas and better things to the lesser countries much more faster then if you just left those countries on their own.

Not necessarily true. The Commonwealth system that Britain has right now would have worked equally well to spread ideas and technology, probably even better so than an empire; yes the Europeans powers abandoned their colonies too soon, but they never should have made them colonies in the first place.

But that's just human nature, I guess. And this is the third time I've said it in this thread: imperialism seems a lot less appealing when it's your country being colonized.

Stable political climate? Malaysia? Yeah right.

And have you heard of a little country called Iraq? Ring any bells? Oh oh, and they certainly did a bang-up job with the Palestinian protectorate, didn't they?

And France has done well on the Ivory Coast?

No, you're right, they haven't. That's not the point though, I wasn't replying to a statement about how bad Britain and France screwed up the world respectively, I was replying to a statement that said the British have given the world nothing but peace, love and the reach-around.

TURKEY IS MUCH BETTER THAN WHAT YOU THINK! ACTUALLY LOOK BACK AT THE GREAT LEADER ATATURK AND YOU WILL BETTER UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH YOU ARE IGNORANT!!! TURKEY GRANTED TO WOMEN THE RIGHT OF VOTE IN THE 1920s, MUCH BEFORE ANY EUROPEAN COUNTRY AND MUCH BEFORE BOTH FRANCE AND BRITAIN!!! YOU SEE, THERE ARE OTHER COUNTRIES THAT CAN ALSO BE PROUD OF CERTAIN THINGS AND NOBODY HAS THE RIGHT TO PUT FORWARD THIS DISGUSTING JINGOISM WHICH COMPLETELY DENIGRATES AND DOWNGRADES OTHER CULTURES

New Zealand was first to allow women to vote. I'm not disagreeing with you, and I'm not saying that you said Turkey was first in the world. Me personally, I like France more than Turkey, but Turkey definitely more than Britian.

Viva la France!

The British don't have a very good record:

There was all the Americans they killed in the War of Independence.

They killed a thousands of my countrymen (New Zealanders) and Australians by sending them in to attack at Gallipoli during World War 1, where our soldiers were greeted with a cliff face to climb and a whole lot of Turks up top shooting them.

Hey, we Americans (Colonials at the time) started the war of course, they killed us. Gee, it was a war.

It wasn't the Brits that killed thousands of your countrymen in WW I or WW II, it was the Germans. And they did it while you, and the Brits, etc. were trying to save whom? Yes, the French.

The French language makes no sense. I've studied it for five years and as much as teachers like to claim it is phonetic, any language with five silent letters on the end just isn't so. I'm sure English isn't better but it is my native language so I don't really know.

That isn't my reason though. Simply put: The Beatles. France has made no decent contribution to music to my knowledge yet the UK has produced some of the best bands and artists in just about every genre.

Though I'd much rather eat French food.....

Well, I believe a poll done about one year said that 58% of the people on NS were Americans and the second largest group were citizens or residents of the United Kingdom with approx. 20%. That being said as most people know there is little love for France right now in America so we won't likely vote for France. Patriotism will likely prevent Brits from voting against themselves so I predict that the UK wins in a land slide.

Gee, where are the French when you really need them?

Viva la France!

The British don't have a very good record:

There was all the Americans they killed in the War of Independence.

They killed a thousands of my countrymen (New Zealanders) and Australians by sending them in to attack at Gallipoli during World War 1, where our soldiers were greeted with a cliff face to climb and a whole lot of Turks up top shooting them.

They think they are good at soccer but they actually suck.

They killed millions of Irish and stole their good land when they invaded them, and split Ireland into two countries. Since their good land was gone they were left with just potatoes! And then when the potato crop failed a whole lot more of them died! And now there is still fighting going on in Ireland between the catholic Republic of Ireland and the protestant Northern Ireland.

The split up the Ottoman Empire into the hundreds of countries that the Middle East now is, by invading them as well. The Ottoman Empire was peaceful, and now there is lots of fighting in the Middle East.

And who can understand them?

:D CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP :D

Hey, we Americans (Colonials at the time) started the war of course, they killed us. Gee, it was a war.

It wasn't the Brits that killed thousands of your countrymen in WW I or WW II, it was the Germans. And they did it while you, and the Brits, etc. were trying to save whom? Yes, the French.

The British started that war by not letting America become independant. And they killed a whole lot of civilians as well. But it is your country and if you don't care about your countrymen then I'll let that go.

The British sent my countrymen into that cliff face, knowing full well it was suicide. The Turks where just defending their country, we were invading them. Us New Zealanders had no choice in the matter, they were forced to fight on that beach.

The British started that war by not letting America become independant. And they killed a whole lot of civilians as well. But it is your country and if you don't care about your countrymen then I'll let that go.

The British sent my countrymen into that cliff face, knowing full well it was suicide. The Turks where just defending their country, we were invading them. Us New Zealanders had no choice in the matter, they were forced to fight on that beach.

Thank you. Go New Zealand!

The New Zeelanders have pretty negative opinions of the French though don't they, i know their government does. Mostly due to Nuclear testing near New Zeeland. If you recall the bombing in Auckland which they blamed French spies for.

People have made fun of the French for years, it's great sport.

"France is miserable because it is filled with Frenchmen, and Frenchmen are miserable because they live in France." - Mark Twain

"I don't know why people are surprised that France won't help us get Saddam out of Iraq. After all, France wouldn't help us get the Germans out of France!" --- Jay Leno

"The last time the French asked for 'more proof' it came marching into Paris under a German flag." --David Letterman


"In response to the recent terror attacks in Spain, the French government have raised their terror alert status from “Run” to “Hide”.

If attacks continue on the continent they may be forced to further increase the alert to “Surrender”, or even as high as “Collaborate”."

Us New Zealanders had no choice in the matter, they were forced to fight on that beach.

No one is ever forced to fight.

People have made fun of the French for years, it's great sport.

"France is miserable because it is filled with Frenchmen, and Frenchmen are miserable because they live in France." - Mark Twain

"I don't know why people are surprised that France won't help us get Saddam out of Iraq. After all, France wouldn't help us get the Germans out of France!" --- Jay Leno

"The last time the French asked for 'more proof' it came marching into Paris under a German flag." --David Letterman


"In response to the recent terror attacks in Spain, the French government have raised their terror alert status from “Run” to “Hide”.

If attacks continue on the continent they may be forced to further increase the alert to “Surrender”, or even as high as “Collaborate”."

It would not be so sad if it were not so true. :(

People have made fun of the French for years, it's great sport.

"France is miserable because it is filled with Frenchmen, and Frenchmen are miserable because they live in France." - Mark Twain

"I don't know why people are surprised that France won't help us get Saddam out of Iraq. After all, France wouldn't help us get the Germans out of France!" --- Jay Leno

"The last time the French asked for 'more proof' it came marching into Paris under a German flag." --David Letterman


"In response to the recent terror attacks in Spain, the French government have raised their terror alert status from “Run” to “Hide”.

If attacks continue on the continent they may be forced to further increase the alert to “Surrender”, or even as high as “Collaborate”."

The Thread is meant to be your opinion of France and Britain not to ridicule either nation, and posting jokes doesn't necessarily help.

If I may point out, many of the posters in this forum are from the UK, and we are all English-speakers. The poll results will be biased.
I voted France, because my family is from there and it is a beautiful country, but I have no doubt that I will be in the minority.


Thats ridiculous... nobody likes france because the french are assholes. Any sane person, I don't care if he spoke Chinese, would like Britian if the person had a brain.

The Thread is meant to be your opinion of France and Britain not to ridicule either nation, and posting jokes doesn't necessarily help.

That is part of my opinion. The French can be a pompous lot on occasion, as are many people - it's fun to prick that with some humor.

In my opinion, going to war without the French was like going deer hunting without an accordion.

Going to war with the Brits as allies was a privilege. We can count on them.

Thats ridiculous... nobody likes france because the french are assholes. Any sane person, I don't care if he spoke Chinese, would like Britian if the person had a brain.

Hmm, I speak Chinese and I don't like the British. That must mean I don't have a brain.

Oh wait, that's you.

i picked the U.K. cause thats where King Arthur is from and as u can tell from my nation i love Ireland. My ancestors are from France and i live in Louisiana in the US of A where we speak french. I like both countries!!! :fluffle:

Originally Posted by Psov
"but the who experimented with democracy first, i believe it was the French, and the french revolution was the first in europe that's expected outcome was democracy. Revolutions that followed in Europe were modelled after the French revolution and the governments that followed were as well. Where after all does the traditional democratic left and democratic right come from? It was the seating at l'assembly nationale the conservatives sat on the right, the more liberal on the left. So much modern political devices are French in origin, because of the revolutions impact on the world."

It was the Greeks that experimented with democracy first. Demos - the people, kratos - the power. While France might have advanced it to some extent, many if not all of the Greek experiments were copied by other nations.

I'd say United Kindgom. With the fall of the Roman Empire all of Europe not part of the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) empire had regressed by a great extent. Bacon, Newton, Cavendish, et al all made major strides into science. Britain brought about democracy for Western Europe, had followed suit with the Serbian empire centuries later by declaring a church independant of Rome and broke free of being a second rate catholic state under effective control of the pope (that excommunication was not a pleasent thing to have hanging over your head). The British empire even came to own about a quarter of the world and took on all the world powers (sometimes with allies, sometimes without) and won. People complain they committed x atrocities. Yet so did so many other civilizations. It was the accepted norm back then to do what the British did. Of course that should not legitimize it, but that's how things were done back then. The British empire also spawned many of the world's leading countries (such as the US, Canada)

France has made her contributions, some significant and others not so much like many other world powers but I would say overall the British Empire has done much more.

To paraphrase James Clavell's Gai-Jin, there is a reason the British rule the world and the French do not. However, the one thing the French do better and are more open with is sex.

However, the one thing the French do better and are more open with is sex.

Yea....but they are hairy...

Why would anyone like France?

Why would anyone like France?
a) They have pretty good food.
b) They have invented a lot of good stuff.
c) Their revolution is still the foundation of most of our modern ideals.
d) They were good sports when we were busy battling them for 1000 or so years.
e) They are more pro-European than the British are.
f) The USA (if you like them) is a product of early nationbuilding exercises by ...that's right, by the French.
g) They are better friends of ours than the British are right now.
the list goes on...

Now, you tell me why anyone wouldn't like the French - and we'll have a proper debate on our hands.

a) They have pretty good food.
b) They have invented a lot of good stuff.
c) Their revolution is still the foundation of most of our modern ideals.
d) They were good sports when we were busy battling them for 1000 or so years.
e) They are more pro-European than the British are.
f) The USA (if you like them) is a product of early nationbuilding exercises by ...that's right, by the French.
g) They are better friends of ours than the British are right now.
the list goes on...

Now, you tell me why anyone wouldn't like the French - and we'll have a proper debate on our hands.

American should remember that the french army help you get your independence from Britain.
I like France better because they are more pro european and support the euro unlike the british

Not quite. Either Chinese or Spanish is number one, I can't remember which but I think Spanish. Certainly, English is more spoken than French, and is the international language of business and aviation.

Most Widely Spoken Languages
in the World

Language----------------Approx. number of speakers
1. Chinese (Mandarin)-----1,075,000,000
2. English-----------------514,000,000
3. Hindustani--------------496,000,000
4. Spanish----------------425,000,000
5. Russian----------------275,000,000
6. Arabic-----------------256,000,000
7. Bengali----------------215,000,000
8. Portuguese------------194,000,000
9. Malay-Indonesian------176,000,000
10. French----------------129,000,000

Source: Ethnologue, 13th Edition, and other sources.

Thought I throw in a little humor/history since everyone's having an Anglo-French brawl. :)

A Complete Military History of France
Courtesy AlbinoBlackSheep.com

- Gallic Wars
- Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian.

- Hundred Years War
- Mostly lost, saved at last by female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare; "France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman." Sainted.

- Italian Wars
- Lost. France becomes the first and only country to ever lose two wars when fighting Italians.

- Wars of Religion
- France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots

- Thirty Years War
- France is technically not a participant, but manages to get invaded anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other participants started ignoring her.

- War of Revolution
- Tied. Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.

- The Dutch War- Tied

- War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War
- Lost, but claimed as a tie. Three ties in a row induces deluded Frogophiles the world over to label the period as the height of French military power.

- War of the Spanish Succession
- Lost. The War also gave the French their first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved every since.

- American Revolution- In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the Second Rule of French Warfare; "France only wins when America does most of the fighting."

- French Revolution
- Won, primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.

- The Napoleonic Wars
- Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer.

- The Franco-Prussian War- Lost. Germany first plays the role of drunk Frat boy to France's ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night.

- World War I
- Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States. Thousands of French women find out what it's like to not only sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline.

- World War II
- Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song.

- War in Indochina
- Lost. French forces plead sickness; take to bed with the Dien Bien Flu

- Algerian Rebellion
- Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a western army by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First Rule of Muslim Warfare; "We can always beat the French." This rule is identical to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans, English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese and Esquimaux.

- War on Terrorism- France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe. Attempts to surrender to Vietnamese ambassador fail after he takes refuge in a McDonald's.

The question for any country silly enough to count on the French should not be "Can we count on the French?", but rather "How long until France collapses?"

"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without an accordion. All you do is leave behind a lot of noisy baggage."

Or, better still, the quote from last week's Wall Street Journal: "They're there when they need you."



With only an hour and a half of research, Jonathan Duczkowski provided the following losses:

Norse invasions, 841-911.
After having their way with the French for 70 years, the Norse are bribed by a French King named Charles the Simple (really!) who gave them Normandy in return for peace. Normans proceed to become just about the only positive military bonus in France's [favour] for next 500 years.

Mexico, 1863-1864.
France attempts to take advantage of Mexico's weakness following its thorough thrashing by the U.S. 20 years earlier ("Halls of Montezuma"). Not surprisingly, the only unit to distinguish itself is the French Foreign Legion (consisting of, by definition, non-Frenchmen). Booted out of the country a little over a year after arrival.

Panama jungles 1881-1890.
No one but nature to fight, France still loses; canal is eventually built by the U.S. 1904-1914.

Napoleonic Wars.
Should be noted that the Grand Armee was largely (~%50) composed of non-Frenchmen after 1804 or so. Mainly disgruntled minorities and anti-monarchists. Not surprisingly, these performed better than the French on many occasions.

Haiti, 1791-1804.
French defeated by rebellion after sacrificing 4,000 Poles to yellow fever. Shows another rule of French warfare; when in doubt, send an ally.

India, 1673-1813.
British were far more charming then French, ended up victors. Therefore the British are well known for their tea, and the French for their whine (er, wine...). Ensures 200 years of bad teeth in England.

Barbary Wars, middle ages-1830.
Pirates in North Africa continually harass European shipping in Meditteranean. France's solution: pay them to leave us alone. America's solution: kick their asses ("the Shores of Tripoli"). [America's] first overseas victories, won 1801-1815.

1798-1801, Quasi-War with U.S.
French privateers (semi-legal pirates) attack U.S. shipping. U.S. fights France at sea for 3 years; French eventually cave; sets precedent for next 200 years of Franco-American relations.

Moors in Spain, late 700s-early 800s.
Even with Charlemagne leading them against an enemy living in a hostile land, French are unable to make much progress. Hide behind Pyrennes until the modern day.

French-on-French losses (probably should be counted as victories too, just to be fair):

1208: Albigenses Crusade, French massacared by French.
When asked how to differentiate a heretic from the faithful, response was "Kill them all. God will know His own." Lesson: French are badasses when fighting unarmed men, women and children.

St. Bartholomew Day Massacre, August 24, 1572.
Once again, French-on-French slaughter.

Third Crusade.
Philip Augustus of France throws hissy-fit, leaves Crusade for Richard the Lion Heart to finish.

Seventh Crusade.
St. Louis of France leads Crusade to Egypt. Resoundingly crushed.

[Eighth] Crusade.
St. Louis back in action, this time in Tunis. See Seventh Crusade.

Also should be noted that France attempted to hide behind the Maginot line, sticking their head in the sand and pretending that the Germans would enter France that way. By doing so, the Germans would have been breaking with their traditional route of invading France, entering through Belgium (Napoleonic Wars, Franco-Prussian War, World War I, etc.). French ignored this though, and put all their effort into these defenses.

Thomas Whiteley has submitted this addition to me:

Seven year War 1756-1763
Lost: after getting hammered by Frederick the Great of Prussia (yep, the Germans again) at Rossbach, the French were held off for the remainder of the War by Frederick of Brunswick and a hodge-podge army including some Brits. War also saw France kicked out of Canada (Wolfe at Quebec) and India (Clive at Plassey).

Richard Mann, an American in France wants to add the following:

The French consider the departure of the French from Algeria in 1962-63, after 130 years on colonialism, as a French victory and especially consider C. de Gaulle as a hero for 'leading' said victory over the unwilling French public who were very much against the departure. This ended their colonialism. About 2 million ungrateful Algerians lost their lives in this shoddy affair.

This isn't exactly fair....

American should remember that the french army help you get your independence from Britain.
I like France better because they are more pro european and support the euro unlike the british

Why should Britain be pro-Euro? Euroscepticism suits us fine.

The UK, generally. On a historical basis. It's just a cooler. It's going down the tubes now, though.

I'd like to visit both countries, but my desire to see the United Kingdom is much greater... probably because I don't know French.

Thought I throw in a little humor/history since everyone's having an Anglo-French brawl. :)

A Complete Military History of France
Courtesy AlbinoBlackSheep.com

-snip-
I wonder how the French managed to build the second largest in the world colonial empire... maybe the history from AlbinoBlackSheep.com is not so 'complete', eh?

The French language makes no sense. I've studied it for five years and as much as teachers like to claim it is phonetic, any language with five silent letters on the end just isn't so. I'm sure English isn't better but it is my native language so I don't really know.

That isn't my reason though. Simply put: The Beatles. France has made no decent contribution to music to my knowledge yet the UK has produced some of the best bands and artists in just about every genre.

Though I'd much rather eat French food.....

You studied it for five years, and you are still having trouble with the difference between "Il mange beau" and "Ils mangent beau"?

Anyways, its nice to hear so many misconceptions in one thread. As to the french never inventing anything...

# Ambroise Paré (1510-1590): surgical instruments
# Blaise Pascal: mechanical calculator (1642)
# Metric system, proposed by Gabriel Mouton in 1670, worked out by the French Academy of Sciences in 1790
# Nicolas Joseph Cugnot: steam-driven car (1769)
# George Louis Lesage used a single wire system to telegraph a message (1774)
# Joseph M.Jacquard - first industrially applicable automatic loom (late 18th century)
# Montgolfier (Joseph and Etienne): the hot-air balloon (1783)
# Louis Lenormand: the parachute (1783)
# Jean Baptiste Meusnier: lighter-than-air dirigible developed (1785)
# Claude Chappe: optical system telegraph (1791)
# Nicolas Appert - invented our canning process involving bactericide by boiling (1810)
# René T.H. Laennec - invented the stethoscope (1816)
# Joseph L. Gay-Lussac (1778-1850), chemist: the hydrometer and alcoholometer
# Jean-François Champollion - first deciphered the Rosetta Stone(1822)
# Louis Braille: printed language for the blind (1829)
# Joseph N.Niepce: the principle of the photographic process (1826)
# Xavier Progin (1833): a machine that used separate typebars for each letter or symbol that were activated by separate lever keys (forerunner of typewriter)
# Daguerre, Louis J. improved and patented photographic process (1839)
# French physicist Jean Foucault: the gyroscope (1852)
# Henri Deville: invented electrolysis to refine aluminum from bauxite (1852)
# Henri Giffard, engineer: first successful steam-powered steerable airship (1852)
# Edouard-Léon Scott de Martinville: Phonautographe:1st machine to record sound (1857), with no playback
# Raymond Gaston Planté: the lead-acid battery (1860)
# Rouquayrol and Denayrouse: hard-hat deep-sea diving (1865)
# Pierre Lallement: rotary-pedal bicycle (1865)
# Frères Michaux: steam-driven bicycle (1868)
# Chemist Mège Mouriés: margarine (1869)
# Charles Cros (& Edison) simultaneously invented the phonograph (1877)
# Lumière brothers: first movie camera (1895)
# René Panhard & Emile Levassor: prototype for modern car (front engine, pedal clutch, 4 wheels, etc. - 1895)
# Jean J.E. Lenoir (1822-1900): the first practical internal combustion engine
# French engineer and chemist Georges Claude: the neon lamp (1902)
# Paul Cornu (1907): short flight of first helicopter prototype
# Edouard Benedictus: the process for making laminated safety glass (1909)
# Henri-M. Coanda: turbine engine airplane (1910)
# George de Mestral: the hook and loop fabric fastener system, Velcro (1941)
# Emile Gagnan and Captain Jacques-Yves Cousteau: "Aqua Lung" for scuba diving (1943)
# Arthur Granjean: Etch-A-Sketch [toy] in 1958
# François Gernelle: the first non-kit computer based on a microprocessor (1973)
# Philippe Kahn: the software or operating system for the above microcomputer
# Roland Moreno: the concept of installing silicon chip computer memory on a plastic card (1974)
# French launch Minitel (1980), first major public interactive computer network
# Robert Cailliau and Jean-François Groff, Swiss francophone co-inventors of the WWW with Tim Berners-Lee (1992)
# ATM asynchronous transfer mode - high-speed internet (not sure of details)

That discounts many military ones, here are some from another source, then some from me(sorry if anything is repeated)

Aluminium (discovered simultaneously in U. S. and France)
Breech-loading shotgun
Cellophane
Commercial gas engine
Electric steel
Electric storage battery
Gyroscope
Iron galvanizing process
Laminated glass
Metallic cartridge
Pasteurization
Phosphorus match
Rayon
Rayon nitrocellulose
Screw propeller
Sewing machine
Smokeless powder
Steam automobile
Steam pressure gauge
Stethoscope
Synthesis of camphor
Television 1000 line screen

The Nobel Prize has been awarded since 1901 for contributions in Physics, Chemistry, Medicine and Physiology, Literature and the Advancement of Peace. The prizes are awarded irrespective of nationality, race or creed. From 1901 to 1939, the Nobel Prize has been awarded to 203 individuals. The United States won 25. The French won 28.

Since 1800 or so:

The Minie Ball
Smokeless Powder
Countless aircraft in ww1, some of the best in the war
The first practical tank, the Ft-17
Some of the first semi-automatic rifles
Some of the best tanks and aircraft in the world, up till 1940(obvious reasons)

Modern weapons:

Incredibly successful ATGM's
The Leclerc(technological accomplishment if nothing else)
Felin system(more advanced than equivilents)
Nukes(something most nations have not done)
Very good naval ships(especially lighter ones)
Great multipurpose aircraft(Mirage 2000, Rafale)
Very good IFV's
Good AA(Roland 2, Croatale for its time) and Artillery(Auf-1 and Caesar)
Very good helicopters
The Famous Exocet

Anyways, I picked France. I love the language, the culture, the military, etc.

Britain, because I was born here, and France's President sucks.

The legacy of the British Empire is democracy, the rule of law, the right to private property and our lanugage. Look at Australia, New Zealand, India or Canada.

You might like to know that France is the only country to still control large areas of land overseas (French Guiana), and as France is an indivisible Republic, self-determination isn't even an option.

The two peoples have their own faults and strengths (Generalisation Warning):

British Strengths - Diversity, Sense of Fair-play, Humanitarianism
British Weaknesses - Insular, Disdain or Envy for successful people

French Strengths - Respect for Intellectual Thought, Distinction between Politics and Religion
French Weaknesses - Very Conformist Society, Historical Hang-over

How can anyone even consider that France is better then The Glorious and Indetructable United Kingdom? if it wasnt for this blest'd isle then not one of you in this debate would be here speaking ENGLISH! you would either be speaking German and saluting the swastika or chowing down on frog!

RULE BRITTANNIA!

How can anyone even consider that France is better then The Glorious and Indetructable United Kingdom? if it wasnt for this blest'd isle then not one of you in this debate would be here speaking ENGLISH! you would either be speaking German and saluting the swastika or chowing down on frog!

RULE BRITTANNIA!

If you honestly think that germany could have successfully invaded the US, ever... You're wrong. They would have been up to their ears in troubles, assuming they could even successfully defeat the soviet union, who was obliterating the germans. I doubt a few valentines made a difference there, though the account can be made for US lend lease.

If anything, French troops in italy were possibly more important than most british acts, minus africa, where france also fought.

EDIT: I dont know about you, but I can handle my frog.

How can anyone even consider that France is better then The Glorious and Indetructable United Kingdom? if it wasnt for this blest'd isle then not one of you in this debate would be here speaking ENGLISH! you would either be speaking German and saluting the swastika or chowing down on frog!

RULE BRITTANNIA!

Why would we be eating frogs, the Germans were INVADING France! Nerrrrr!

Okey, all the Americans seem to pick Brittain in front of France here. What's fun is that US was controlled by England before "The Declaration of Independence" and that the French helped them counquer America from the English. By the way "The Declaration of Independence" is also based on Montesquieu's (a frenchmen) political ideas.
So all you US citizens out there. You wouldn't have the same values, you wouldn't even have a country if it was not for the French. You would just be a puppet for the Brittish, as you were some 200-300 years ago.

I just think the Americans here should be mighty grateful of France.

Myself, I'm a Swede. So I vote Sweden! :-D

Britain,
the main reason is french president, mr. Chirac,who annoys me all the time..
also for me as pole britain seems better, because i prefer mr.Blair's foreign policy than french one i mean especially terrorism and European Union
Chirac :sniper:

britain of course.

Read some of the post and would like to make a comment or 2 on history.
The french brought democracy to europe? please note that everything country that tried to follow the french system were involved in atrocious wars where many needlessly died. did not create any republics in europe that lasted longer the napoleon. After that dwarf, some countries willingly returned to monarchies.

Another topic about britain and democracy around the world. Someone mentioned something about indians as second class citizens, etc... True, it happened. But that was while indian was run by the East India Company, NOT the british empire. When the empire took over, the indians were given representation up to an extent, which was better that what most nations were doing at the time.
Also britain played the largest role in stopping hte slave trade around the world.

Okey, all the Americans seem to pick Brittain in front of France here. What's fun is that US was controlled by England before "The Declaration of Independence" and that the French helped them counquer America from the English. By the way "The Declaration of Independence" is also based on Montesquieu's (a frenchmen) political ideas.
So all you US citizens out there. You wouldn't have the same values, you wouldn't even have a country if it was not for the French. You would just be a puppet for the Brittish, as you were some 200-300 years ago.

I just think the Americans here should be mighty grateful of France.

Myself, I'm a Swede. So I vote Sweden! :-D

well that's a load of crap. Everyone says US love france for helping revolt against the brits, or you'd still be under their control. Does anyone notice, that all the territories colonised by the Brits were given self-determination? australia, canada, NZ, etc...? None revolted. AS with everything there is compromise and adaptation. Something the French seem unable to do.

Well i believe you'll find that Versailles is generally much more impressive than buckingham, and that the British Museum, is actually not at all highly regarded when compared with the louvre, so saying it is incomparable is, though a matter of opinion, considerably inaccurate.


as an archaeologist i'd like to point out that that is total rubbish and the British Museum and its collections are the most highly regarded in the world. Over half of the 4 to 5 million visitors a year are foreigners.

and britain has to be best because if it wasnt for us there wudnt be a fracne to compare us to!

I voted Britain for the simple reason that I love history and no other country overall, is more historically significant than the UK.

Both Britain and France have great culture, and I really like both countries.

France is the most visited country in the world, so whether we love the french or not, there is something about France that we can't resist.

I too think Americans are too forgetful of France, they were one of a very first allies in the world. True the only reason they helped us in the revolution was because they hated England more than anything, but they helped. And yes we have helped them a lot, just because they disagreed with us on this recent conflict, many americans turn against them. Well it turns out, the French were right, whether we like it or not. I'm an American, I know what I'm talking about.

little Historical Note. the USA entered WWI late, fought for a year. We like to take credit for winning all the wars. and Even though France had fallen. The French people continued to fight, and the resistance had a hand in saving themselves.

WWII was won by the Soviets. One doens't turn his back on the Russians, and you certainly dont invade and get caught as far inland as Moscow in the Russian Winter. Hitler should have looked at Napoleon.

as an archaeologist i'd like to point out that that is total rubbish and the British Museum and its collections are the most highly regarded in the world. Over half of the 4 to 5 million visitors a year are foreigners.

and britain has to be best because if it wasnt for us there wudnt be a fracne to compare us to!

but french is the more artsi fartsi :rolleyes:

Viva la France!

The British don't have a very good record:

There was all the Americans they killed in the War of Independence.

They killed a thousands of my countrymen (New Zealanders) and Australians by sending them in to attack at Gallipoli during World War 1, where our soldiers were greeted with a cliff face to climb and a whole lot of Turks up top shooting them.

They think they are good at soccer but they actually suck.

They killed millions of Irish and stole their good land when they invaded them, and split Ireland into two countries. Since their good land was gone they were left with just potatoes! And then when the potato crop failed a whole lot more of them died! And now there is still fighting going on in Ireland between the catholic Republic of Ireland and the protestant Northern Ireland.

The split up the Ottoman Empire into the hundreds of countries that the Middle East now is, by invading them as well. The Ottoman Empire was peaceful, and now there is lots of fighting in the Middle East.

And who can understand them?

So many points to raise so little time.....

I) All the Americans we killed? It was America we were fighting at the time so who were we SUPPOSED to kill?

II) You just said WE killed all the Anzacs and then you say it was the Turks shooting them? So by your definition, the Turks shot them but WE actually killed them?

III) We didnt MAKE either Australia, OR New Zealand fight, if you read a history book you'll see that both your governments WANTED to join to help the mother country. Did France not send ITS colonials? Again if you bother to look at the facts instead of going down some directionless Anti-Brit rant, France sent its Black colonials to the front line EVERYTIME before it send in its own troops after. Britain sent EVERYBODY in, its own soldiers alonside the Anzacs, Canadians etc.

IV. Yes we do suck, but we're better than you. (Bit childish but I thought as it was a quick snipe, id have one back)

V. yes, track record with Ireland is not good by any stretch HOWEVER, I feel you have no real idea about Ireland as you have the facts completely arse-about face. Yes we did invade Ireland, we didnt LEAVE them with potatoes that is what they grew in bulk themselves as it was good money for them. The crops failed from a disease that came on from Abroad (I have a feeling America but I could be wrong on that 'll have to reserch that.) A lot did die, a lot came to England, and a whole load went to America. Southern Ireland wanted Independence Northern Ireland wanted to stay part of the UK, and S.Ireland got their wish and their govenment and our government drew up the divide. Their isnt much fighting anymore and its not about religion, hasnt been for a while, but then you wouldnt know that because you rant rather than read.

VI. Last but not least, Ottoman Empire, does exactly what is says on the tin, it was an EMPIRE, which means that IT took over soverign countries and ruled over them not too great if you read the accounts of people that lived through it. All we did was help those countries break away from the Ottomans to achieve independence, theres a lot more to the story than that but you'll probably not read or understand it anyway. Hundreds of countries???? Dont quite know how you count but I can guarentee you it didnt break into "hundreds"

To finalise, no we didnt have a good record in imperialist past, but then you name me one Country of the time that did. France? Spain? Portugal? Netherlands? Britain was no different to ANY of the above but we get lambasted for it more than anyone else. Maybe the other countries were slagged off more for their imperialist ways in non-English speaking forums but
I doubt it. Why? I dont know maybe someone could tell me. Is it because we had the biggest Empire? Is it because mose English speaking people on here are from former English colonies? Please if someone can help me understand Iam more than willing to listen and debate.

And P.S: Who can understand us? Well you for a start because what language do you speak? ENGLISH!!! :p You dont like English? Speak another language and move to a non "Brit" country!

well that's a load of crap. Everyone says US love france for helping revolt against the brits, or you'd still be under their control. Does anyone notice, that all the territories colonised by the Brits were given self-determination? australia, canada, NZ, etc...? None revolted. AS with everything there is compromise and adaptation. Something the French seem unable to do.

I THINK YOU are a load of crap!!!

read back your history books and you will see what I mean, of course if they are all propaganda or biased then no need.

If It were not for France, the USA would not even exist right now, it would just merely be a colony of Britain. And, one more thing, everyone in Europe knows one thing (the issue is not to put France against Britain all the time, but much broader): the USA has only more than 200 years of history, which is based on multiple massacres against the indian populationn (one might even qualify them genocide) although, OK it's true, it contribute to the world in many aspects too.

Some stuff might also surprise you:
I wanna see how much different is the USA from Britain
USA: Death Penalty still in vigor
Britain: No Death Penalty for already a long time (like France and most of Europe)
USA: Abortion still largely debated by the red necks and other conservative wackos (Britain and Europe: abortion is widely accepted and only a small minority opposes it)
USA: does not sign Treaty of Kyoto and screws up our air (Britain and most of Europe have signed it and most people understand the urgency of saving our environment)
USA: has increased lately it's defence spending by 40% more than all the 20 biggest net contributor states joined together! (most of your spending goes only to build weapons, while Britain and most of Europe also spend on other important stuff like education, research, social security, protection of the environment)

This one will be controversial but I still want to add it, I know some will object, couldn't care less.
USA and Britain, along with a "coalition" invaded a sovereign nation named Iraq with puny excuses and called that to be part of the War against Terrorism, don't make me laugh!
WMD's don't exist in Iraq, and already as early as 2000, most of them were destroyed or, who knows sold to another idiot out there.
the Iraq war is completely against international law, it has violated the UN Charter, take a look and you'll know what I mean (Kofi Annan has himself said that it was "illegal")
NOW: how can nations that see themselves as beacons of democracy and rule of law and human rights and all that jazz invade, humiliate, and utterly violate every principle of international law? seems to be contradictory to me.
Anyways, don't take me wrong, I have a lot of respect for both USA and Britain, and we face the same challenges ie terrorism, we should all be united in the effort to fight terror, but we should do that respecting international law, not breaching it.

First off, France wins hands down for global cuisine. English food, while improving, historically was terrible, but French is still much better. Anyone who says otherwise is probably too poor to ever go to a decent French restaurant or too porr and narrow minded to try visiting France.
English humor definitely appeals to Americans more, but French art is generally better, Cezanne, Renoir, Duchamp, Lautrec, etc. and I think anyone who has visited both Paris and London would agree that French architecture is more beautiful and more interesting. French people actually tend to be nicer and less arrogant than English people, at least in the south. In the north and in Paris it is easy to encounter assholes.
The French language, while made up of a smaller vocabulary, is smoother and more melodic than English, and better for expressing certain things. In my opinion, French is a much better language for philosophy. Descartes and Sartre and Camus are more interesting to me than any English thinkers. The weather is better in France, the women are undoubtedly more beautiful, and there is more natural diversity, and living in France you can take drive for a couple of days and be anywhere in Europe, while from England you have to pay for an expensive ferry or chunnel passage.
French are more tolerant than the English, welcoming immigrants of all colours, while the English, while accepting immigrants, always think of them and treat them as Pakis or whatnot- in France anyone can be French, of course, one exception being in Paris, not anyone can be Parisian. Before the civil rights movement a lot of ambitious black people moved to France from the US so they could pursue their dreams. For example, the first black female pilot was rejected in the US and finally came to France, the only country that would allow her to learn.
And last and most of all, France, while certainly not cowards militarily as some of those uneducated in modern affairs seem to think, because of involvement in some of the most dangerous countries in Africa on humanitarian and peacekeeping mission, declined to join the idiot cowboy Bush on his oil gleaning, money making crusade to dupe the world and make a fortune stained with the blood of a lot of innocent people and based on a whole lot of lies.

First off, France wins hands down for global cuisine. English food, while improving, historically was terrible, but French is still much better. Anyone who says otherwise is probably too poor to ever go to a decent French restaurant or too porr and narrow minded to try visiting France.
English humor definitely appeals to Americans more, but French art is generally better, Cezanne, Renoir, Duchamp, Lautrec, etc. and I think anyone who has visited both Paris and London would agree that French architecture is more beautiful and more interesting. French people actually tend to be nicer and less arrogant than English people, at least in the south. In the north and in Paris it is easy to encounter assholes.
The French language, while made up of a smaller vocabulary, is smoother and more melodic than English, and better for expressing certain things. In my opinion, French is a much better language for philosophy. Descartes and Sartre and Camus are more interesting to me than any English thinkers. The weather is better in France, the women are undoubtedly more beautiful, and there is more natural diversity, and living in France you can take drive for a couple of days and be anywhere in Europe, while from England you have to pay for an expensive ferry or chunnel passage.
French are more tolerant than the English, welcoming immigrants of all colours, while the English, while accepting immigrants, always think of them and treat them as Pakis or whatnot- in France anyone can be French, of course, one exception being in Paris, not anyone can be Parisian. Before the civil rights movement a lot of ambitious black people moved to France from the US so they could pursue their dreams. For example, the first black female pilot was rejected in the US and finally came to France, the only country that would allow her to learn.
And last and most of all, France, while certainly not cowards militarily as some of those uneducated in modern affairs seem to think, because of involvement in some of the most dangerous countries in Africa on humanitarian and peacekeeping mission, declined to join the idiot cowboy Bush on his oil gleaning, money making crusade to dupe the world and make a fortune stained with the blood of a lot of innocent people and based on a whole lot of lies.

If France is so great and welcoming to immigrants how come they are risking their lives to get here through the ferrys and chunnel tunnel?

snip

first of, you should not insult people, I said your statement was crap, not yourself. so calm down. How would the US still be a colony, when no other large british possesion is? Australia, Canadad, etc. have had self-determination for a while no? Whearas France still appears to hold a tight grip on some of its posessions.

second, i'm english/spanish so why go into an attack on the USA? does not seem to relevant to the thread. But about the Kyoto protocol, true america should join, and it appears that are starting the process of "emission trading" which is the most important part of agreement. So although they might not sign they might follow it to some degree. its hoped anyway.

The whole Iraq issue is pointless to argue about, as its been done. You must also admit France was a bit petty about the whole issue, USA too.

oh yeah and you should not point fingers at what the USA did to the native americans. Looks quite similar to what the swedes did to the lapplanders.

Everyone country has arseholes in its past.... what can you do? :confused:

Some stuff might also surprise you:
I wanna see how much different is the USA from Britain
USA: Death Penalty still in vigor
Britain: No Death Penalty for already a long time (like France and most of Europe)
USA: Abortion still largely debated by the red necks and other conservative wackos (Britain and Europe: abortion is widely accepted and only a small minority opposes it)
USA: does not sign Treaty of Kyoto and screws up our air (Britain and most of Europe have signed it and most people understand the urgency of saving our environment)
USA: has increased lately it's defence spending by 40% more than all the 20 biggest net contributor states joined together! (most of your spending goes only to build weapons, while Britain and most of Europe also spend on other important stuff like education, research, social security, protection of the environment)


oh and you notice, the white colonies that were given self-determination without the aid of the French are all more like europe unlike the USA which was aided by France?

oh yeah and you should not point fingers at what the USA did to the native americans. Looks quite similar to what the swedes did to the lapplanders.

Everyone country has arseholes in its past.... what can you do? :confused:

True there, I won't argue with that: I was just pointing out to the fact that regarding world affairs right now, the government in the USA has done many mistakes (ie Iraq War and Kyoto Protocol) and as being half French, I will tell you our government is also a lot of shit, I don't like it at all, but regarding Iraq and Kyoto, we are right and most of our people think that way too.
Also want to point out to the fact that most British people opposed the Iraq war even when it began, which gives you some similarities with Europe.
Therefore, it is just too easy to confront Britain vs. France as if both countries were so different, there are also some similarities.

Doesnt anyone agree with me? :(

never said otherwise.

Just Britain is better than France :D

But realistly, britain has contributed more to the modern world than France.
Britain is more ready to try and push through what it thinks is right, whereas france seems to be more into point scoring. Refering to gov. on the second point by the way.

Doesnt anyone agree with me? :(

feeling left out? poor thing

I'll agree with you Cybertia...

I actually do by the way.

But realistly, britain has contributed more to the modern world than France.
Britain is more ready to try and push through what it thinks is right, whereas france seems to be more into point scoring. Refering to gov. on the second point by the way.I am not sure. the ideas of the french revolotion contribute most of the ideas of the modern democracy.
anyway I prefer britain, but I had other reasons.

I am not sure. the ideas of the french revolotion contribute most of the ideas of the modern democracy.
anyway I prefer britain, but I had other reasons.

But most of the Ideas, were originally implemented in Britain
Example, Habeas Corpus Act and the Magna Carta.

The only difference is Britain did not feel the need to wipe out its Royal Family. Probably because we had more checks and guards. The French royalty, prior to their revolution were total despots and could do what they wanted.

All the key points of modern democracy were created by the Brits, we just happen to have kept a king/queen as head of state

BRITAIN!!!
i love Britain, because Scotland is in Britain and i am Scottish and the frence i meet here are very rude!!!

UK is better for the sole reson of recognising their Celts. Unfortunatly they exculed the Cornish, but hey, you never get everything you want. At least they're better off than the Bretons... who are told that they're French. Actually I might be completly making this up... sleep deprivation is a good thing... where am I? Oh well, umm, yeah... sleeppppppppppjgsofd

Oh yeah, If you didn't figure it out, I'm a Celt, part Welsh part Scottish... When the English speaking part of my brain wakes up, it's going to kill me.

W00t, go Cymru!

UK is better for the sole reson of recognising their Celts. Unfortunatly they exculed the Cornish, but hey, you never get everything you want. At least they're better off than the Bretons... who are told that they're French. Actually I might be completly making this up... sleep deprivation is a good thing... where am I? Oh well, umm, yeah... sleeppppppppppjgsofd

erm yeah i agree with that!!! :D

But most of the Ideas, were originally implemented in Britain
Example, Habeas Corpus Act and the Magna Carta.

The only difference is Britain did not feel the need to wipe out its Royal Family. Probably because we had more checks and guards. The French royalty, prior to their revolution were total despots and could do what they wanted.

All the key points of modern democracy were created by the Brits, we just happen to have kept a king/queen as head of state
well, most of the modern world get this ideas almost in the time. I think the american constitution wrote in the same years, and it had much similarities.

after all, I didn't care even if it was developed in zimbabua. the important thing is we can live in the modern days, with all the priveleges that were far dream at the medievel times.

well, most of the modern world get this ideas almost in the time. I think the american constitution wrote in the same years, and it had much similarities.

after all, I didn't care even if it was developed in zimbabua. the important thing is we can live in the modern days, with all the priveleges that were far dream at the medievel times.

agreed. does not matter where it comes from :)

But it seems that most people assume because france and a bloody revolution and used a few buzz words, then they created the democratic model, which is just wrong i my eyes. Also the american did not really fight for any new rights, but to protect the existing ones. ie the english ones

UK is better for the sole reson of recognising their Celts. Unfortunatly they exculed the Cornish, but hey, you never get everything you want. At least they're better off than the Bretons... who are told that they're French. Actually I might be completly making this up... sleep deprivation is a good thing... where am I? Oh well, umm, yeah... sleeppppppppppjgsofd

Oh yeah, If you didn't figure it out, I'm a Celt, part Welsh part Scottish... When the English speaking part of my brain wakes up, it's going to kill me.

W00t, go Cymru!

better of than the corsicans too... and just at what the Algerians had to do to get anything...

erm yeah i agree with that!!! :D

Someone agrees with me!! Maybe I do make sense! Or... oh no.

better of than the corsicans too... and just at what the Algerians had to do to get anything...

Yeah, don't hear about Corsica much today...

Britain - we haven't yet sent every member of our aristocracy to Madame Guillotine.

Most Widely Spoken Languages
in the World

Language----------------Approx. number of speakers
1. Chinese (Mandarin)-----1,075,000,000
2. English-----------------514,000,000
3. Hindustani--------------496,000,000
4. Spanish----------------425,000,000
5. Russian----------------275,000,000
6. Arabic-----------------256,000,000
7. Bengali----------------215,000,000
8. Portuguese------------194,000,000
9. Malay-Indonesian------176,000,000
10. French----------------129,000,000

Source: Ethnologue, 13th Edition, and other sources.

Thank you.

Britain.
+
I live here
Better education
Better Language

-
Chavs
Crap food
weather

France.
+
Nice golf courses
Mopeds
SLIGHTLY better weather

-
dress sense
ugly girls
their british stereotype is that we're all ginger. :confused:

La Grande-Bretagne parce que je suis britannique et parce que nous
passons nos vies devant s'allier avec d'autres pour combattre les
Français ou nous doivent les sauver de d'autres.

Or in English:

Great Britain because I am British and because we spend our lives either having to ally with others to fight the French or we have to rescue them from others.

First off, France wins hands down for global cuisine. English food, while improving, historically was terrible, but French is still much better. Anyone who says otherwise is probably too poor to ever go to a decent French restaurant or too porr and narrow minded to try visiting France.

Ive been to France and eaten at French restaurants and I like French food. However, one thing that did leave a bad taste in my mouth, was Chirac's arrogant drivvel last week about our food. I don't actually think that your cuisine is better than ours. We actually have more varieties of cheese and are better than the French is some culinary respects.

English humor definitely appeals to Americans more, but French art is generally better, Cezanne, Renoir, Duchamp, Lautrec, etc. and I think anyone who has visited both Paris and London would agree that French architecture is more beautiful and more interesting. French people actually tend to be nicer and less arrogant than English people, at least in the south. In the north and in Paris it is easy to encounter assholes.

English humour is, of course, generally appealing. Perhaps it is the endless snorting that puts people off French jokes. English people generally aren't arrogant. Whenever I have visited France, albeit mostly in the north, people have been generally rude. As such, I refuse to holiday there and spend my tourist money in their country. The English are not, however, arrogant enough to predict an easy Olympic victory. In fact we even renamed the sides at the recent Trafalgar re-enactment so that the "Blues" lost rather than France. And what of Turner? What of the great landscape painters? Constable?

The French language, while made up of a smaller vocabulary, is smoother and more melodic than English, and better for expressing certain things. In my opinion, French is a much better language for philosophy. Descartes and Sartre and Camus are more interesting to me than any English thinkers. The weather is better in France, the women are undoubtedly more beautiful, and there is more natural diversity, and living in France you can take drive for a couple of days and be anywhere in Europe, while from England you have to pay for an expensive ferry or chunnel passage.

The English Language is far more interesting than French as it is a hybrid of other tongues. The rich vocabulary we have is larger and I for one, as an academic, am proud of it. The women in France reportedly do not wash... and some are known to have beards. This is totally unknown in Britain. Water is something we have no shortage of. I wonder if neighbouring states can smell France on a hot day.
French are more tolerant than the English, welcoming immigrants of all colours, while the English, while accepting immigrants, always think of them and treat them as Pakis or whatnot- in France anyone can be French, of course, one exception being in Paris, not anyone can be Parisian. Before the civil rights movement a lot of ambitious black people moved to France from the US so they could pursue their dreams. For example, the first black female pilot was rejected in the US and finally came to France, the only country that would allow her to learn.
I suppose this is the evident reason why immigrants go through France to get to Britain.... I don't recall our BNP enjoying anywhere near as much success as Le Pen and his fascists.

And last and most of all, France, while certainly not cowards militarily as some of those uneducated in modern affairs seem to think, because of involvement in some of the most dangerous countries in Africa on humanitarian and peacekeeping mission, declined to join the idiot cowboy Bush on his oil gleaning, money making crusade to dupe the world and make a fortune stained with the blood of a lot of innocent people and based on a whole lot of lies.

Is this supposed to be aimed at Britain. I think you'll find, should you know anything, that the vast majority of Britons, including me, were against the Iraq war and many remain so now. You are wrong..... again.

England has tea. Need I say more. ;)

I went Britain, because my family comes from Rhodesia, which used to be in southern africa, and it was a British colony. Upon further investigation of the posts, niether side looks that good, but I respect France for not going to Iraq. I'm from Canada, and We didn't go either, but we also didn't get the third degree from George Dubya' like the Europeans did. I've always liked the British, because of the sprawling empire they created with all the countries that were formed in the process, most noteably, Canada and Australia. Yet, the Brits have never really payed attention to Canada, and that bothers me. Such examples include: The Queen doesn't stop by that often, the Alaska border dispute was settled by a British Lord, resulting in the loss od half of Canada's west coast(they were sucking up to America, to make good after all that revolutionary war stuff, even though they should've voted in favour of Canada, because we were still a British colony at the time), and we are also the largest territory Britain has ever settled, with vast resources. The crown should be concerned with the way we're headed, especially considering the Quebec separation issue. Otherwise, Britain is A-Ok in my mind.
Oh, and France is not all bad either. ;)

UK, the English language is so much more practical. I can say what I am doing at the moment, what I do in general and what I DO do, pas seulement que je fais.

Britain

Far more of an industrious and inventive nation which has contributed to and shaped the modern world more than France. Plus, French seem to be lost in their 'past glories' and overly nationalistic to the point of racism - even more so than Americans.

I think the world's view of the US is a bit narrow.

Our country is almost split down the middle into Democrats and Republicans. (These have grown into more than just political parties, they represent types of people)

Modern Democrats tend to be catergorized as Moderate- Liberal, while Republicans tend to be Moderate-Conservative.

I think since The United States is currently being represented by an ultra conservative Republican administration, the world, particularily, Europe, which would fit into the Moderate-Liberal Catergory for the most part, seems to be downing us. This last election was the largest in US history and it was one of the closest. Bush won, but a very large percentage of us didn't vote for him.

Most of us are very kind and not at all racist, and though most of us love our country, we know when we are wrong, and we know when we need to apologize and start to pick up the peices.

I think most of the current laws and issues brought up in the Bush Years should never have been issues in the First Place. I do think countries like Canada,and France are better politically. They are more tolerate, but when it comes to Abortion, I'm not pushing religion, I just think its irresponsible. If the mother's life isn't in danger, she wasn't raped, then I dont see why she shouldn't have the baby and just give it up for adoption if she doesn't want it. Maybe the government shouldn't push laws forbidding it, but I think its wrong if it is done for the wrong reasons.

So though I voted for Britain, I also stated France is a hell of a country. They just really screwed up historically when it came to conflict.

Thank you.

You're welcome. :)

American should remember that the french army help you get your independence from Britain.


And the French should remember that they'd still be a German Province if it weren't for us.

I wish Americans would stop using this "you'd still be speaking German if it wasn't for us" comment. When the Romans invaded Europe it was only the administration who spoke Latin, it was 'too advanced' for the peasants. And at any rate, the U.S.S.R. would have saved us in the end, without America.

(I hope)

I wish Americans would stop using this "you'd still be speaking German if it wasn't for us" comment. When the Romans invaded Europe it was only the administration who spoke Latin, it was 'too advanced' for the peasants. And at any rate, the U.S.S.R. would have saved us in the end, without America.


same here, hopefully the yankees will one day undersdant, does take some time for them :p

I wish Americans would stop using this "you'd still be speaking German if it wasn't for us" comment. When the Romans invaded Europe it was only the administration who spoke Latin, it was 'too advanced' for the peasants. And at any rate, the U.S.S.R. would have saved us in the end, without America.
Then France would have been learning Russian under Maurice Thorez's rule. ;)

Brittain. they are great allies in the war on terror, and have been great allies since WWI. France...well...we can always make fun of them for their losses in various wars. But france just sits there and makes us cleanse the world for them.

Cleanse the world.... OMG! :eek:

I wish Americans would stop using this "you'd still be speaking German if it wasn't for us" comment. When the Romans invaded Europe it was only the administration who spoke Latin, it was 'too advanced' for the peasants. And at any rate, the U.S.S.R. would have saved us in the end, without America.

I really don't know if you'd really want to be "saved" by the Soviets. It would be a transfer from one autocracy to another. Instead of having the fundamental human freedoms, the French would have been suppressed by the Kremlin, as was the case with most of Eastern Europe. Indeed, Soviet Communism was not the communism advocated by Marx, which is what many Western Communists thought they'd get if under Soviet rule.

I really don't know if you'd really want to be "saved" by the Soviets. It would be a transfer from one autocracy to another. Instead of having the fundamental human freedoms, the French would have been suppressed by the Kremlin, as was the case with most of Eastern Europe. Indeed, Soviet Communism was not the communism advocated by Marx, which is what many Western Communists thought they'd get if under Soviet rule.

I dont think anyone really said they wanted to be saved by the communists, just pointing out that they wouldnt have still been a german province.

I dont think anyone really said they wanted to be saved by the communists, just pointing out that they wouldnt have still been a german province.

Conscribed Comradeship implied it in his remark.

I wish Americans would stop using this "you'd still be speaking German if it wasn't for us" comment. When the Romans invaded Europe it was only the administration who spoke Latin, it was 'too advanced' for the peasants. And at any rate, the U.S.S.R. would have saved us in the end, without America.

Conscribed Comradeship, could you clarify?

(Wow, lots of alliteration there. :D )

Conscribed Comradeship implied it in his remark.



Conscribed Comradeship, could you clarify?

(Wow, lots of alliteration there. :D )

Saved from the germans. Im pretty sure life under peacetime russia would have been better than under wartime germany, especially if Russia hadn't had to maintain tens of thousands of MBT's in europe.

I wonder how the French managed to build the second largest in the world colonial empire... maybe the history from AlbinoBlackSheep.com is not so 'complete', eh?

Yeah. He kind of just happened to leave out Charlemagne. What a terrible accident. Having King Charles the Great's history up there might even it up a bit.

I wish Americans would stop using this "you'd still be speaking German if it wasn't for us" comment. When the Romans invaded Europe it was only the administration who spoke Latin, it was 'too advanced' for the peasants. And at any rate, the U.S.S.R. would have saved us in the end, without America.

That completely ignores Lend-Lease which is where Russia (and the UK I believe) received large amounts of material and equipment to fight the Germans.

If you want to make the argument that the USSR could have won it without the US fine, but don't forget that means no help what-so-ever, including economical.

But yeah, you are probably right, Russia could have won WWII without American aid, I mean come on, what good we all of the American led invasions of German held territory doing? North African front? Only took a handful of divisions away from the eastern front. Italian campaign, only took a few divisions away from the eastern front. Invasion at Normandy? Only took like half the German forces off of the Eastern Front. Really, does America have any right to think that we were instrumental in defeating the Germans? After all, we were sending all our troops to fight the Japs in the Pacific, right?

I wonder how the French managed to build the second largest in the world colonial empire... maybe the history from AlbinoBlackSheep.com is not so 'complete', eh?

Umm, let's see, they claimed it as their own, sent over a few troops and some settlers and then got their asses kicked by England? Sound about right to anyone else?

That completely ignores Lend-Lease which is where Russia (and the UK I believe) received large amounts of material and equipment to fight the Germans.

If you want to make the argument that the USSR could have won it without the US fine, but don't forget that means no help what-so-ever, including economical.

But yeah, you are probably right, Russia could have won WWII without American aid, I mean come on, what good we all of the American led invasions of German held territory doing? North African front? Only took a handful of divisions away from the eastern front. Italian campaign, only took a few divisions away from the eastern front. Invasion at Normandy? Only took like half the German forces off of the Eastern Front. Really, does America have any right to think that we were instrumental in defeating the Germans? After all, we were sending all our troops to fight the Japs in the Pacific, right?

The germans had already lost the war after kursk, which was before torch. While lend lease greatly helped the russians, its likely they still would have won. They would have just had to spent a few more factories on making trucks and cars, instead of tanks. It might have taken a bit longer, but they probably still would have won.

The largest lend-lease recipients were Great Britain ($31 billion) and the Soviet Union ($11 billion). Incorporated in these figures was the value of goods such as aircraft, weapons, ammunition, clothing, medical supplies, foodstuffs, and raw materials transferred by land, sea, and air. Lend-lease played a vital role in keeping the Allied war machine operating, especially in the months preceding U.S. entry into the war.

Lend-lease cemented the role of the United States as the arsenal of democracy. U.S. industrial strength proved to be the decisive weapon of World War II. Lend-lease was terminated by President Truman in September 1945. Thereafter, American aid to friendly countries dovetailed with the economic recovery program popularly known as the Marshall Plan.


Source: United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. (http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10005679)

The germans had already lost the war after kursk, which was before torch. While lend lease greatly helped the russians, its likely they still would have won. They would have just had to spent a few more factories on making trucks and cars, instead of tanks. It might have taken a bit longer, but they probably still would have won.

But what about Moscow?

I am not saying (or not trying to if it sounds like I am.) that Lend-Lease was the thing that single handedly saved the Allies from falling before US entry intot he war, but that it was a major factor and to say that Britain and the USSR could have defeated Germany without US help but to ignore the impact of Lend-Lease while still claiming this is stupid. Some of what Roosevelt did to help the allies before 1941 was illegal and could have resulted in an impeachment if not for the Japenese attack on Pearl Harbor.

Plus, it is one thing for a Brit or Russian to say that "we could have won without US help," but good god, if a Frenchy every said that I would probably laugh so hard I would rip my stitches open in my knee.

But what about Moscow?

I am not saying (or not trying to if it sounds like I am.) that Lend-Lease was the thing that single handedly saved the Allies from falling before US entry intot he war, but that it was a major factor and to say that Britain and the USSR could have defeated Germany without US help but to ignore the impact of Lend-Lease while still claiming this is stupid. Some of what Roosevelt did to help the allies before 1941 was illegal and could have resulted in an impeachment if not for the Japenese attack on Pearl Harbor.

Plus, it is one thing for a Brit or Russian to say that "we could have won without US help," but good god, if a Frenchy every said that I would probably laugh so hard I would rip my stitches open in my knee.

You realize its the same thing if a Frenchman said it, as a russian or a british person? Because those three were allies, and if Russia would win the war without the US, by default, France won too.

You realize its the same thing if a Frenchman said it, as a russian or a british person? Because those three were allies, and if Russia would win the war without the US, by default, France won too.

I know, it is like the 12th man on the basketball team saying "We won the Finals!" Even though he only played 47 miutes during the entire season and was riding the pine during the entire offseason. Interestingly enough I know of at least one person (Can't remember his name right now) who was the 12th man of several times, shot 20% from the free-throw line but yet he still has five Championship rings. I suppose that would be just like France then, never does anything but yet still manages a chunk of the glory.

BTW, I don't "hate" France or any other country but that doesn't mean I can't have a little bit of fun at their expense. You make a good joke about me or America and I will laugh my ass off.

the straight forward way of putting french involvment in the war is this. they built a big wall allong the eastern side of their country and covered i in guns. they said no-one could beat it (which was true) and decided to sit around along their borders waiting for the germans to attack. when the war sarted the french advanced ino germany b then retrated behind their wall and said 'Ha, you stupid nazi's you can't beat this wall' and the germans said 'stfu' and just went around it. this otally confused the french who lost their entire country. tre he brits did get rapped at dunkirk by his but we did get our boys out through 'operation dynamo'

anywho his is a really condenced version of events and it doesn't mention many important stratigic decitions but i kept it with the french bashing theme :sniper:

So many points to raise so little time.....

I) All the Americans we killed? It was America we were fighting at the time so who were we SUPPOSED to kill?

You weren't supposed to kill anyone. Is that the British attitude? We have to kill someone! No, why didn't you just give them their independence?

II) You just said WE killed all the Anzacs and then you say it was the Turks shooting them? So by your definition, the Turks shot them but WE actually killed them?

Yes. All the Turks were doing was defending their country, and while they may have fired the bullets and thrown the grenades that killed our soldiers, it was the British who put them in such a terrible position, with no chance to defend themselves. How can you defend your self from bullets when you are being forced to climb a cliff face up to them.

And someone else said that no-one can force anyone to fight, but haven't you heard of "deserters will be shot?"

III) We didnt MAKE either Australia, OR New Zealand fight, if you read a history book you'll see that both your governments WANTED to join to help the mother country. Did France not send ITS colonials? Again if you bother to look at the facts instead of going down some directionless Anti-Brit rant, France sent its Black colonials to the front line EVERYTIME before it send in its own troops after. Britain sent EVERYBODY in, its own soldiers alonside the Anzacs, Canadians etc.

Where there any Brits along side the Anzacs at Gallipoli? No, they new they were all going to die and they didn't want any of their soldiers killed.

And no doubt you're reading a history book written by the Brits!

France didn't send their troops to climb a cliff face up to the enemy.

IV. Yes we do suck, but we're better than you. (Bit childish but I thought as it was a quick snipe, id have one back)

We don't deny that New Zealand isn't very good at soccer. But altleast we don't pretend we are really good and pay our players millions of dollars. And then were does that get you, next World Cup...knocked down again!

And for the recent Lions rugby tour (the lions are a combined team from England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales), we, a country of just 4 million people, bet you 3-0. It wasn't as if there was no funding and it was just a bit of fun, about 50,000 Lions supporters came from Britian to support them. And there were millions of dollars (or pounds) behind that tour.

V. yes, track record with Ireland is not good by any stretch HOWEVER, I feel you have no real idea about Ireland as you have the facts completely arse-about face. Yes we did invade Ireland, we didnt LEAVE them with potatoes that is what they grew in bulk themselves as it was good money for them. The crops failed from a disease that came on from Abroad (I have a feeling America but I could be wrong on that 'll have to reserch that.) A lot did die, a lot came to England, and a whole load went to America. Southern Ireland wanted Independence Northern Ireland wanted to stay part of the UK, and S.Ireland got their wish and their govenment and our government drew up the divide. Their isnt much fighting anymore and its not about religion, hasnt been for a while, but then you wouldnt know that because you rant rather than read.

They may have already been growing a lot of potatoes, but you guys stole their good land. There is no denying that. From that they had no choice in the matter.

There is still a lot of fighting. Just last week on the news there was the yearly orange parade or something. The Northen Irelanders were marching down the streets all in their orange. The police had to set up huge walls down the stretets so their opposition couldn't see them and their would be no fights.

Since they couldn't fight each other, both sides turned on the police. Many police were injured.

VI. Last but not least, Ottoman Empire, does exactly what is says on the tin, it was an EMPIRE, which means that IT took over soverign countries and ruled over them not too great if you read the accounts of people that lived through it. All we did was help those countries break away from the Ottomans to achieve independence, theres a lot more to the story than that but you'll probably not read or understand it anyway. Hundreds of countries???? Dont quite know how you count but I can guarentee you it didnt break into "hundreds"

So you're saying empires are bad? What about the British Empire, which still exists today. And what has been the result of the being - okay I'll change it - tens of counties? War, death, misery, poverty, terrorism. You (or maybe not you but other people in this thread) criticise France for not helping in the war on terror. Maybe you should point the finger at the country who started terrorism, by breaking up the Ottoman Empire into Iraq, Iran, Kuwait, Lebanon, Syria and a whole lot of others.

To finalise, no we didnt have a good record in imperialist past, but then you name me one Country of the time that did. France? Spain? Portugal? Netherlands? Britain was no different to ANY of the above but we get lambasted for it more than anyone else. Maybe the other countries were slagged off more for their imperialist ways in non-English speaking forums but I doubt it. Why? I dont know maybe someone could tell me. Is it because we had the biggest Empire? Is it because mose English speaking people on here are from former English colonies? Please if someone can help me understand Iam more than willing to listen and debate.

Britain as a worst past than any other country in my opinion. I don't know why people slag Britain for their past and not the others, but why I and many of my colony dislike the British is because they think they are better than everyone else, or thats the impression we minorlings get any way.

And P.S: Who can understand us? Well you for a start because what language do you speak? ENGLISH!!! :p You dont like English? Speak another language and move to a non "Brit" country!

You create a language and then you forget how to speak it. What is with your accent? I can understand Australians, Americans, South Africans, heck even Canadians, but British people are just really hard to understand what it is they are saying. Scottish people are easist out of the UK.

And what is with the English language any way. "Laugh". Since when does "gh" make "f". And "through", a "gh" again but it isn't pronounced "throof". English is the hardest language to learn. That is why I am learning FRENCH!

The British started that war by not letting America become independant. And they killed a whole lot of civilians as well. But it is your country and if you don't care about your countrymen then I'll let that go.

The British sent my countrymen into that cliff face, knowing full well it was suicide. The Turks where just defending their country, we were invading them. Us New Zealanders had no choice in the matter, they were forced to fight on that beach.

The sheer ignorance of this post is staggering.

I know, it is like the 12th man on the basketball team saying "We won the Finals!" Even though he only played 47 miutes during the entire season and was riding the pine during the entire offseason. Interestingly enough I know of at least one person (Can't remember his name right now) who was the 12th man of several times, shot 20% from the free-throw line but yet he still has five Championship rings. I suppose that would be just like France then, never does anything but yet still manages a chunk of the glory.

BTW, I don't "hate" France or any other country but that doesn't mean I can't have a little bit of fun at their expense. You make a good joke about me or America and I will laugh my ass off.

Except France did plenty in ww2. Their forces were invaluable in Africa, Italy, and from normandy to berlin.

I think France is better of the two. However, the British people are better. But as a country, France is better I'd say. According to my sister, the French are angry people. But then again, she refused to even try to speak their language, to which I said, how would you feel if some Bolivian person came up to you not speaking your language and insist that you listen?

Japan beats em all though. Best effin country in the world.

Let's face it, the West (Most notably the European Empires) really fucked up the world. Dividing tribes in Africa, putting down lines that were not there before and saying the people on this side of the line are of Country A the people on this side of the line of Country B. Breaking Kuwait off of Iraq (Which was one of the reasons for the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, I guess that would be the Iraqi version of Taiwan.) Poverty in South America, the complete destruction of Native Cultures (the US is guilty of this too). Or how about the Pre-Spanish population of the North and South America being approx. 25 million versus the population at about the time the Pilgrims arrived which was roughly 1.5 million in North America. Did I see someone say that the British and French "liberated" Syria, Iraq, Kuwait, Palestine, etc. from the Ottomans after WWI? Looked to me like that was just a transfer of ownership. Many of the world's problems are supposedly the result of poor policies of the West. But IMO that is just the "intellectuals" grumbling just to hear their own voices and pretend that they have a conscious.

Sure, a person could blame America for the problems with our Native's but at what point does the blame get shifted to them? How many years of tribal sovereignty are necessary before it becomes their problem for not taking care of themselves instead of America's fault for treating them so terribly? They have their own fucking president, how much longer can the Native's keep blaming the white man before they start pointing the fingers at themselves?

How about these genocides in Africa? Once again a person would have a valid argument in blaming the former mother countries, but once again I ask how long can the keep using the same excuse? My opinion of these genocides, we need to let them work these things out themselves, let go of their hands and let them take care of themselves. Will I lose any sleep over it? Nope, I seem to remember reading about these things happening in World History class. In Europe and China but they eventually got their shit together.

Or what about "American culture" destroying the rest of the world? I have heard of French saying that Fast Food was wasting away at the foundation of French Culture. Are you kidding me? Your culture revolves around food? (Waits for the obvious "Ah ha! But all Americans are so fat!" Well tough luck for them, I am not fat and most of the people in my school weren't fat either. I know football players who were fat because they had lots of muscle and I know of girls who were told by the school nurse they needed to lose some weight when they had awesome curves and to lose some weight would have ruined them.) And I hear the same thing about commerce with American Colonist destroying entire Villages. The reasoning these people gave? The Natives killed their entire source of food so they could trade with the Colonists for items they DID NOT need to survive. Whose fault is that? If I shoot myself in the foot do I blame myself or the Army for issuing me that weapon? Well I blame myself for pulling the trigger.

My point (since this topic seems to have already wandered and I am only pushing it further) is that The responsibility for these things needs to be shared by both the West and the Natives who allowed themselves to trade, be conquered, whatever.

Is anyone a French speaker around here?

Because I would like to know how much politeness there is in normal French conversations.

As a German, I have of course noticed that English is full of things that are meant to be polite, and greatly increase the length of a sentence.

Now, if those that went to France and say the French are "rude" actually spoke to them in French, then okay.

But if you were talking to the French in English, isn't it pefectly possible that a French person may simply have left out all the polite additives because he/she didn't know any better? That there was no intent of being rude?

Britain hands down! And my reasoning is pretty simple.

When there is a problem, the Brits think the situation through and then DO something - they might not always be right but at least they do something. The French on the other hand, sit around complaining about the issue while they wait for someone else to fix it - THEN they sit around and criticise those who tried to help.

Attention France: if you expect to sit on your butt and wait for others to come and save you, then you have no business quibbling about how and when they do it!

And before anyone asks, yes I'm American.

Though I respect France as a people and as a nation (despite its government decisions of late and its attitude)

My vote based on history, culture, literature, and the sense that comes to me when "England" or "Britain" is mentioned.... clearly rests with Great Britain

Advance Brittania! Advance!

Great Britain!

My ancestors originally came over from Britain and Ireland, so I'm biased towards the British Iles in the first palce. Britain made a MAJOR contribution to the modern world in the form of the industrial revolution. We wouldn't be able to discuss this topic in cyber space if that had neve happened.

France currently seems content on insulting other countries. Example: Everone has heard of Chirac's insult on British <i>and</i> Finnish food. The next day the IOC named London as the 2012 host city (Paris had been the favorite, and 2 of the judges were from Finland. You do the math.)

But, France has it's good points. That beautiful sculpture in New York's harbor was a gift from the French. Not to mention the wonderful price Jefferson got on that land that doubled our nation's size.

BTW, there has been some discussion on this:
Ian McDiarmid']Another thing, Cheese originally was invented in England
It was actually discovered by the Arabians. A merchant put some milk in a goat stomach "canteen" and rode a camal (very bouncy) across the hot desert. When he opened it up to take a swig, he discovered the milk had seperated and chese was one of the results.

The UK has influenced world history and politics more than France. It also has better technology, defense and scientific development by comparison. However, France is no weakling.