NationStates Jolt Archive

COMMENTARY: I use to go totally ballistic everytime one of my men in Vietnam got a "Dear John" letter from his wife or girlfriend. I considered every one of the women an embodiment of the "B" word. "How dare they abandon a soldier in combat? Don't they realize they could get the poor guy killed?" Then I realized that the guys were as much to blame as the girls. This is one of the "hidden costs" of war, and an exceedingly tragic one. My heart goes out to all affected.


Shrapnel From Home (http://www.military.com/earlybrief)

It's a war that soldiers in Iraq weren't trained for: a long-distance fight to keep marriages and finances intact, and keep 'Jody' out of the picture.

By Faye Fiore, Times Staff Writer


Ain't no use in callin' home,

Jody's got your telephone.

ADVERTISEMENT

Ain't no use in goin' home,

Jody's got your girl and gone.

Sound off! (One, two.)

Sound off! (Three, four.)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


KILLEEN, Texas — Most of the men in 4th Squad, Charlie Battery, fought two wars while they were in Iraq. There was the war against the insurgents that had them patrolling for roadside bombs and raiding houses at all hours. Then there was the war back home, which had them struggling, over phone lines from 7,000 miles away, to keep their marriages and their bank accounts intact.

They say they eventually got used to the bombs. The crazy possibility of dying any minute didn't haunt them so much. But that other war, that was the one that tore them up in the downtime spent in Sgt. Cox's trailer at Camp Victory. It would get quiet, and then one or another of them would ask: "So, how are things going at home?" And they would begin to brood.

They all knew about "Jody," the opportunist of Army lore who moved in on a soldier's girl while the soldier was off fighting a war. They had sung hundreds of cadences in basic training deriding the name. But it had always seemed like a joke, something that happened to other guys.

After all, Sgt. Brent Cox, 36, and his wife, Kristina, were expecting their first child after 12 years of marriage.

Pvt. Ray Hall, 21, was married to his high school sweetheart, an airman first class stationed in San Antonio.

Spc. Jason Garcia, 23, believed that his on-again, off-again relationship with the mother of his then-2-year-old son was on again; he had given her his ATM card as a gesture of commitment.

But on the long-awaited day in February when the three soldiers returned here to Ft. Hood, Texas, turned in their rifles and stood on the parade field, only Hall had a sweetheart there to meet him. And he found himself wishing she hadn't come at all.

After surviving the chaos of Iraq, thousands of soldiers have become casualties of a fight they were poorly trained for: keeping control of their family lives during the separation of war. Men and women who feel lucky their units suffered few fatalities say they can name dozens who returned to empty houses, squandered bank accounts, divorce papers and restraining orders.

The Army divorce rate has jumped more than 80% since the fighting began overseas in response to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. The courts around Ft. Hood, the Army's largest post, may have to add another judge to handle the caseload. Divorce lawyers hire extra staff whenever a division prepares to come home.

To a soldier in battle, the threat of a family falling apart can be a dangerous distraction. "That's probably the worst part about being over there," said Hall, now back at Ft. Hood and facing a marriage so damaged it may not survive. "Your wife's cheating on you, you know she's been spending all your money the entire time, and there's nothing you can do about it. You think about that more than you do a bomb on the side of the road."

For some in the 4th Squad, the tensions played out nightly in Camp Victory's "Internet cafe" — the Army trailer with rows of computers where soldiers flocked to contact their families. Some found more pain there than comfort. Cox's wife was five months pregnant when she announced she was leaving him and going back home to Lawton, Okla.

Hall visited the Internet trailer less often after he checked the phone messages on his home answering machine one day and heard another man tell his wife he loved her.

Garcia stopped hearing from his girlfriend and started tracking his bank account. He said thousands of dollars of his saved pay was gone and she had found somebody else.

Jody.

[ This article is six pages long, but well worth reading. Read the rest of the article here (http://www.military.com/earlybrief). ]

Jody and the woman who leaves with him should be publicly humiliated and then executed. If my girl left with Jody in that situation I'd kill both of them on the spot.

I think I would still use the "B" word. It's one thing when a relationship fails because of distance - that can certainly happen. It's a completely different situation when cheating is involved or someone starts squandering another person's money. If you feel the need to sleep with someone else, you break off your current relationship.

I had a friend who had a boyfriend in Iraq when the conflict first started and, though she watched the news constantly and worried about him all the time, she wasn't sure if things would be the same when he got back - if their relationship could survive. They planned a weekend away, just the two of them when he first got home, to make sure their relationship was alright. The whole situation was rough for her - and I'm sure it was for him. But she didn't go out sleeping with someone else behind his back or anything like that.

AGH!!! Make it stop, ma! Why the torture? Why the endless stream of articels? AAAAGH!!!!

AGH!!! Make it stop, ma! Why the torture? Why the endless stream of articels? AAAAGH!!!!
Shhhh! Stephistan tried to get me deleted by complaining about the articles I post. I'm trying to irritate her. :D

Shhhh! Stephistan tried to get me deleted by complaining about the articles I post. I'm trying to irritate her. :D

Keep em up. I actually think they're pretty interesting (especially that sniper-rifle one). :cool:

Ohh don't get me ranting on this subject. It would be one thing if the guy was an asshole. Many are. A friend of my wifes is a cop in a town next to a base. He can't count how many domestic violence calls he gets.

However, dumping him because of the war? :mad:

I am probably tainted in my view of that because of my grandparents. They were Poles. My grandmother stood by my granddad when he tried to help defend Poland during the German invasion. She stood by him when the left everything to escape to England. She stood by him when he was in the 1st Polish Air brigade. She stood beside him when they immigrated to the US.

Hmmmmmm.......

Yeah, to be fair, your serial copy & pasting is partly redeemed by the fact that it's usually a good read and not all neoconservative drivel. Those who wish to complain, remember The Red Arrow / MKULTRA.

I am probably tainted in my view of that because of my grandparents. They were Poles. My grandmother stood by my granddad when he tried to help defend Poland during the German invasion. She stood by him when the left everything to escape to England. She stood by him when he was in the 1st Polish Air brigade. She stood beside him when they immigrated to the US.

I had a prof once who used to tell us weird stories about his family.

In one, he talked about how his parents reacted to WWII. They lived on a farm, and apparently had a rooster that was completely unbearable - and hated my prof's father. The hatred went both ways, and he apparently complained constantly about the rooster - every time he went near the hen house and got attacked anyways - and threatened to kill it. His wife would calm him down and things would settle.

When he had been overseas a while, he got a package from home with some chicken in it that was apparently the best he ever tasted. =)

COMMENTARY: I use to go totally ballistic everytime one of my men in Vietnam got a "Dear John" letter from his wife or girlfriend. I considered every one of the women an embodiment of the "B" word. "How dare they abandon a soldier in combat? Don't they realize they could get the poor guy killed?" Then I realized that the guys were as much to blame as the girls. This is one of the "hidden costs" of war, and an exceedingly tragic one. My heart goes out to all affected.


It is a very sad reality. You have to feel for everyone involved, but to ditch a guy only because he's gone to war is pretty cold. If there are other reasons, fine, but some of these stories sound pretty indefenseable.

Jody and the woman who leaves with him should be publicly humiliated and then executed. If my girl left with Jody in that situation I'd kill both of them on the spot.
Give me a break.

Yeah, to be fair, your serial copy & pasting is partly redeemed by the fact that it's usually a good read and not all neoconservative drivel. Those who wish to complain, remember The Red Arrow / MKULTRA.

MKULTRA?!?

Who?

AGH!!! Make it stop, ma! Why the torture? Why the endless stream of articels? AAAAGH!!!!
I know....Eut and Drunk Commies seem to be opposite sides of the same coin lately with the article posting. My eyes hurt.

Shhhh! Stephistan tried to get me deleted by complaining about the articles I post. I'm trying to irritate her. :D
maybe i will go complai nabout the spam, do you have a problem keeping it down to one a day? or you going for only 1 a day worth reading and unlimited inflammatory ones?

It is a very sad reality. You have to feel for everyone involved, but to ditch a guy only because he's gone to war is pretty cold. If there are other reasons, fine, but some of these stories sound pretty indefenseable.
Yeah, but you're not going to get the full story.

Distance is very hard on a relationship. ESPECIALLY when there are children involved. I can't imagine that long of a time without my spouse and there not being some problems.

Unfortunately, for a lot of people, rather than being clear about what the problems are, they take the easy way out...and cheat. No need to explain, no need to justify the break up...cheating pretty much gets you out of it. You look like shit, but at least you're out.

A lot of these relationships may not have been that strong to begin with...and don't take the number of years to mean strength. A strong relationship would be sorely taxed by this kind of separation...a weak one would be shattered.

And if these people didn't leave now...would that necessarily be a good thing? It's not a nice thing to have this sort of break-up...but I hope the soldiers involved realise they're probably better off. Clearly their relationship wasn't up to the test...if it didn't break now, it likely would later.

It is a very sad reality. You have to feel for everyone involved, but to ditch a guy only because he's gone to war is pretty cold. If there are other reasons, fine, but some of these stories sound pretty indefenseable.
They're mostly very young, some having married right out of HS. They're usually far from everyone they know and love, and feel very alone and isolated, with the only man they love ( or think they love ) thousands of miles away. True, some of them over-react or were never interested in more than a military paycheck anyway, but those seem to be exceptions to the rule. I just feel awful for all of them, men and women alike.

There's no way I can prove it, but I will believe to my dying day that at least two of my men in 'Nam comitted a type of suicide by combat ( doing things they knew were hazardous ) because their wives left them. Some of the cases in 'Nam were even sadder, if possible, because some of the wives left because they didn't believe in the war. :(

I had a prof once who used to tell us weird stories about his family.

In one, he talked about how his parents reacted to WWII. They lived on a farm, and apparently had a rooster that was completely unbearable - and hated my prof's father. The hatred went both ways, and he apparently complained constantly about the rooster - every time he went near the hen house and got attacked anyways - and threatened to kill it. His wife would calm him down and things would settle.

When he had been overseas a while, he got a package from home with some chicken in it that was apparently the best he ever tasted. =)

:D That go me laughing! Thank you!

It almost sounds like something from my family. My other grandparents had a 300+ pound sow called Rosie. She had the ability to break out of her pen, wander off the property and lay on the main road. Cars would back up, start honking. My grandmother would grab the broom walk down to where she was and swat on the butt and walk her home. Happened so much people were on a first name basis. ;) Rosie would only move for my grandmother. Grandpa hated Rosie as well. ;)

Some of the cases in 'Nam were even sadder, if possible, because some of the wives left because they didn't believe in the war. :(
Why is that sadder?

Why is that sadder?

*blinks*

Ok why not explain that comment?

Why is that sadder?
You're kidding right???

It's sadder because disagreement over politics is a horrid reason for leaving your spouse. It's sadder because most of those men were draftees. It's sadder because of a whole host of reasons.

Yeah, but you're not going to get the full story.

Distance is very hard on a relationship. ESPECIALLY when there are children involved. I can't imagine that long of a time without my spouse and there not being some problems.

Unfortunately, for a lot of people, rather than being clear about what the problems are, they take the easy way out...and cheat. No need to explain, no need to justify the break up...cheating pretty much gets you out of it. You look like shit, but at least you're out.

A lot of these relationships may not have been that strong to begin with...and don't take the number of years to mean strength. A strong relationship would be sorely taxed by this kind of separation...a weak one would be shattered.

And if these people didn't leave now...would that necessarily be a good thing? It's not a nice thing to have this sort of break-up...but I hope the soldiers involved realise they're probably better off. Clearly their relationship wasn't up to the test...if it didn't break now, it likely would later.

I agree with all of this except for the squandering of the bank accounts.

COMMENTARY: I use to go totally ballistic everytime one of my men in Vietnam got a "Dear John" letter from his wife or girlfriend. I considered every one of the women an embodiment of the "B" word. "How dare they abandon a soldier in combat? Don't they realize they could get the poor guy killed?"

Tough-o. Sucks to be a cog in the military-industrial complex. Best avoid that line of work. Unless you're into your fellow soldiers.

Then it'd ROCK!

Yeah, but you're not going to get the full story.

Distance is very hard on a relationship. ESPECIALLY when there are children involved. I can't imagine that long of a time without my spouse and there not being some problems.

Unfortunately, for a lot of people, rather than being clear about what the problems are, they take the easy way out...and cheat. No need to explain, no need to justify the break up...cheating pretty much gets you out of it. You look like shit, but at least you're out.

A lot of these relationships may not have been that strong to begin with...and don't take the number of years to mean strength. A strong relationship would be sorely taxed by this kind of separation...a weak one would be shattered.

And if these people didn't leave now...would that necessarily be a good thing? It's not a nice thing to have this sort of break-up...but I hope the soldiers involved realise they're probably better off. Clearly their relationship wasn't up to the test...if it didn't break now, it likely would later.

Assuming the problems were there still doesn't make cheating any more acceptable and if, as you say, it is being used as a way out of the relationship, it is completely cowardly and classless. I'm more inclined to believe, in most cases it is more an issue of temptation and loneliness, which in no way justifies it either, but at least it lacks intentional maliciousness.

Why is that sadder?

Because the soldiers didn't choose to fight there, they were ordered to?

Just a guess.

You're kidding right???

It's sadder because disagreement over politics is a horrid reason for leaving your spouse. It's sadder because most of those men were draftees. It's sadder because of a whole host of reasons.

Is leaving them for political reasons any worse than leaving them for hating the way they chew? I mean, come on...what's a good reason for leaving outside of abuse? It's sad, regardless. I don't see that situation as sadder. Depressing...not more depressing.

And the guys HAD to fight, granted...I wonder if their political wives would have moved to Canada with them had they chosen to dodge the draft? Maybe they talked about that, and the guy wouldn't do it. Would that make it better?

They're mostly very young, some having married right out of HS. They're usually far from everyone they know and love, and feel very alone and isolated, with the only man they love ( or think they love ) thousands of miles away. True, some of them over-react or were never interested in more than a military paycheck anyway, but those seem to be exceptions to the rule. I just feel awful for all of them, men and women alike.

There's no way I can prove it, but I will believe to my dying day that at least two of my men in 'Nam comitted a type of suicide by combat ( doing things they knew were hazardous ) because their wives left them. Some of the cases in 'Nam were even sadder, if possible, because some of the wives left because they didn't believe in the war. :(

Yes, I know many people committed suicide by combat in Nam, my Stepdad probably would have had he made it to Nam. He was a Drill Sgt. and was about 3 mon. from being deployed there. He had a hero complex and was depressed at the same time... I'm sure he'd have got himself killed.

War in general is terrible, and these things only add to it. It is just heart breaking to see the havoc it causes in so many lives.

Sumamba Buwhan']I agree with all of this except for the squandering of the bank accounts.
Yeah, well, that's just mean. Financial cheating. But money often screws people up. Which is why I always make sure I have my own.

And what the heck happened to you? Why are you a newbie and an [NS] Sumamba now?

I mean, come on...what's a good reason for leaving outside of abuse?

Neglect.

Assuming the problems were there still doesn't make cheating any more acceptable and if, as you say, it is being used as a way out of the relationship, it is completely cowardly and classless. I'm more inclined to believe, in most cases it is more an issue of temptation and loneliness, which in no way justifies it either, but at least it lacks intentional maliciousness.
Who knows....and I wouldn't justify cheating regardless of the motivation. All I'm saying is, these cases all look terrible, but we're only hearing one, limited side of the story. It's hard to make judgement calls when you're not really privy to the details.

Neglect.
Neglect can be abusive.

What I mean by 'good reason' is...there IS no good reason when you're the one who's been left. At least, not in your mind. Your partner is not going to give you a reason, and you go, "Wow, that's a really good point. No hard feelings then!"

COMMENTARY: I use to go totally ballistic everytime one of my men in Vietnam got a "Dear John" letter from his wife or girlfriend. I considered every one of the women an embodiment of the "B" word. "How dare they abandon a soldier in combat? Don't they realize they could get the poor guy killed?" Then I realized that the guys were as much to blame as the girls. This is one of the "hidden costs" of war, and an exceedingly tragic one. My heart goes out to all affected.

]. ]

Actually, I don't know of a single guy who served in Vietnam who didn't have a Vietnamese "girlfriend" during his tour. It didn't make any difference if the guy was married or not. Had word of this gotten back home, a lot more wives and girlfriends would have been writing "Dear John" letters. Turnabout is fair play.

War in general is terrible, and these things only add to it. It is just heart breaking to see the havoc it causes in so many lives.

So, choose not to add to it. Do something else. Keep yourself, your relationships, and maybe some 'enemy' soldiers and sundry civilians alive in the process.

War is terrible, not just in general, but all-round. Starve the military-industrial complex for fresh, warm bodies to use. Let all the grey-haired old men in pinstripe suits and medal-festooned pressed uniforms fight their own battles, and give your sweetie a big wet kiss.

Yeah, well, that's just mean. Financial cheating. But money often screws people up. Which is why I always make sure I have my own.

And what the heck happened to you? Why are you a newbie and an [NS] Sumamba now?

Yeah it is mean! Goood riddance to whomever did such a thing.

This stupid NS prefix thing GAH! I cant freaking log into nationstates and then click the forum button without it loggin g me in with it. Well time to log out.

I have issues about anyone who leaves a spouse for anything but abuse or infidelity. IMO that's one of the bigger problems in society today - breaking a contract on a whim.

I've been married for almost 12 years, one knife assault and 3 psych-ward hospitalizations to a "Bipolar I" manic depressive. A little time away "over there" is no reason to end a relationship. The Breaker should get NOTHING - except a jail sentance if they take non-personal assets. :mad:

Actually, I don't know of a single guy who served in Vietnam who didn't have a Vietnamese "girlfriend" during his tour. It didn't make any difference if the guy was married or not. Had word of this gotten back home, a lot more wives and girlfriends would have been writing "Dear John" letters. Turnabout is fair play.
Mmmmm....good point...and there are the many children to prove it.

Though to be quite frank, outside of the odd prostitute, I doubt much of this is happening in Iraq right now.

I have issues about anyone who leaves a spouse for anything but abuse or infidelity. IMO that's one of the bigger problems in society today - breaking a contract on a whim.

I've been married for almost 12 years, one knife assault and 3 psych-ward hospitalizations to a "Bipolar I" manic depressive. A little time away "over there" is no reason to end a relationship. The Breaker should get NOTHING - except a jail sentance if they take non-personal assets. :mad:

What's a 'non-personal' asset?

Jody and the woman who leaves with him should be publicly humiliated and then executed. If my girl left with Jody in that situation I'd kill both of them on the spot.


I'm sure your "girl" feels very secure with you, at least as long as you don't have cause to believe that she might disappoint you in any way. Then she should run for her life!

Friggin' moron.

I have issues about anyone who leaves a spouse for anything but abuse or infidelity. IMO that's one of the bigger problems in society today - breaking a contract on a whim.

I've been married for almost 12 years, one knife assault and 3 psych-ward hospitalizations to a "Bipolar I" manic depressive. A little time away "over there" is no reason to end a relationship. The Breaker should get NOTHING - except a jail sentance if they take non-personal assets. :mad:
Well, I prefer the ability to leave a relationship should I so choose over the traditional "stay with him/her even if you don't love him/her" traditional form of marriage.

I suspect that the absence is just a catalyst for a process that may have already been underway.

Again...relationships aren't necessarily stronger for their length. Some people just feel obligated to stay together despite their unhappiness. I feel worse for those people than those who break up and move on.

Who knows....and I wouldn't justify cheating regardless of the motivation. All I'm saying is, these cases all look terrible, but we're only hearing one, limited side of the story. It's hard to make judgement calls when you're not really privy to the details.


The fact that the divorce rate is up 80% during war time, suggests that it is war that is the major contributing factor. Perhaps there are other problems that have been made worse by it... I still find it a cold hearted, dishonorable and classless thing to do.

The fact that the divorce rate is up 80% during war time, suggests that it is war that is the major contributing factor. Perhaps there are other problems that have been made worse by it... I still find it a cold hearted, dishonorable and classless thing to do.
*shrugs*

All's fair in love and war.

Well, I prefer the ability to leave a relationship should I so choose over the traditional "stay with him/her even if you don't love him/her" traditional form of marriage.

I suspect that the absence is just a catalyst for a process that may have already been underway.

Again...relationships aren't necessarily stronger for their length. Some people just feel obligated to stay together despite their unhappiness. I feel worse for those people than those who break up and move on.

Last time I checked, "I'll stay with you until I'm unhappy with you." is a particularly popular wedding vow. If your going to make a vow you have an obligation to keep or you deserve to be thought of as dishonorable. And, yes, as a divorced individual, I realize I'm pointing a finger at myself.

So, choose not to add to it. Do something else. Keep yourself, your relationships, and maybe some 'enemy' soldiers and sundry civilians alive in the process.

War is terrible, not just in general, but all-round. Starve the military-industrial complex for fresh, warm bodies to use. Let all the grey-haired old men in pinstripe suits and medal-festooned pressed uniforms fight their own battles, and give your sweetie a big wet kiss.


<3

The fact that the divorce rate is up 80% during war time, suggests that it is war that is the major contributing factor. Perhaps there are other problems that have been made worse by it... I still find it a cold hearted, dishonorable and classless thing to do.

Well, could be, but without further info, it's all supposition. Who knows? Maybe it's the right thing to do. Could be, just as easily as it could not be.

How about looking at it from the point of view of those left at home? Or does entering into a contract with the Armed Forces demand special status within a marital compact?

<3

?

?


it's a heart


awwwwwwwwwww

Last time I checked, "I'll stay with you until I'm unhappy with you." is a particularly popular wedding vow. If your going to make a vow you have an obligation to keep or you deserve to be thought of as dishonorable. And, yes, as a divorced individual, I realize I'm pointing a finger at myself.
I think a lot of people are under the mistaken impression that relationships aren't working if they aren't easy. As though 'true love' means it's only 'true' if there aren't any conflicts or doubts. Relationships are hard work, full of compromise and negotiations. Trust me...my husband and I were separated for nearly a year because I had to take a job outside of the province before we could move home. Absence may make the heart grow fonder for some...but for others, it erases memories and bonds. It's very difficult to keep things going over the phone. You get used to doing things your way again, you don't have any recent common experiences to talk about, the person on the other end of the line becomes less and less real to you.

Some relationships can handle that...but only for so long. When we finally realised we were losing our grip on things, he flew down to be with me and the girls. Had he been unable to do that, I'd be a single mom right now.

But I know the battles, I know the pain, I know the hardship of relationships. It isn't all love and roses. I know that, because I grew up seeing that. Too many people just see the fairy-tale version, and freak out when they don't see that reflected in their own relationship. It's unrealistic, but it's prevalent.

Dishonour means very little when you've simply fallen out of love.

awwwwwwwwwww


*blushes*

What's a 'non-personal' asset?
Community property.

If you marry somebody and tell them you love them (and will love them) forever, and than stop loving them, whose fault is that?

It's probably not your spouse's fault, unless they beat you or cheat on you. The fault is yours. So instead of putting them through pain of a breakup they don't deserve, and destroying your own perception of relationships, why not seek relationship counciling instead?

No one's saying it's easy. But is is the right thing to do.

Furthermore, any 'Jody' who tries to take up with some soldier's wife, in addition to acknowledging to himself that he is a predatory slimeball, should also realize that it will be his turn to have all of his money stolen and his heart broken a year down the road.

P.S. And just to be fair to the men who have girlfriends in Iraq, reverse the gender on all of those pronouns and apply it to women who would prey on vulnerable men too.

A little time away "over there" is no reason to end a relationship. The Breaker should get NOTHING - except a jail sentance if they take non-personal assets.

What's a 'non-personal' asset?

Community property.

What, are people making off with telephone poles?

If you marry somebody and tell them you love them (and will love them) forever, and than stop loving them, whose fault is that?

It's probably not your spouse's fault, unless they beat you or cheat on you. The fault is yours.
No, sometimes it's truly no one's fault. Sometimes people just grow in different directions.

What, are people making off with telephone poles?
HAAHHHAHAHAA...park benches sprung to my mind before I realised he meant property held in common:).

What, are people making off with telephone poles?
No, people are making off with all the money in joint accounts, taking the TV, Computer, CAR and other personal effects. That is theft.

IMO, if you walk, you walk with exactly what you put into the bank and came into the relationship with. Anything else is simple vindictive theft.

What's a 'non-personal' asset?
Clown car

*shrugs*

All's fair in love and war.

My job puts me in contact on occassion with military members coming from down range. I had to medically clear people for flight back to the states. During an interview I made a comment to a soldier if he was happy to be going home. I was surprised when he stated "No". I asked him why? He explained that his wife was cheating on him and divorcing him. Because of this his superiors were sending him home because they were worried about how this was affecting him mentally. He expressed that all he wanted was to go back down range because at least he could do some good and help out his buddies.

The reason for many of these divorces, infidelities ... male or female.. is because people are excessively selfish. They only see their perspective. Instead of saying what could I do to help make "our marriage" a happy one they are saying "I" am unhappy and "I" want out.

Of course they are more reasonable reasons for divorce and many more reasonable ways to get one. Such as don't cheat, just get the divorce. Also would be nice if you didn't drain the bank account while your at it.... I believe many just lack the fortitude to make something better. Instead of throwing it away....they should make it new, different, workable...no wonder our world is such a mess.

No, sometimes it's truly no one's fault. Sometimes people just grow in different directions.

Fair enough. People should spend more time getting to know each other before making a lifelong commitment (marriage). If they choose to make a lifelong committment, they should be committed to making it lifelong.

No, people are making off with all the money in joint accounts, taking the TV, Computer, CAR and other personal effects. That is theft.

IMO, if you walk, you walk with exactly what you put into the bank and came into the relationship with. Anything else is simple vindictive theft.
The US Court system disagrees with you on that. There is such a thing as "communal property," which is anything acquired after the date of the marriage, or, in the case of common law marriages, the requisite witing period whatever that may be. Generally, judges decide who gets what out of that.

The reason for many of these divorces, infidelities ... male or female.. is because people are excessively selfish. They only see their perspective. Instead of saying what could I do to help make "our marriage" a happy one they are saying "I" am unhappy and "I" want out.

Of course they are more reasonable reasons for divorce and many more reasonable ways to get one. Such as don't cheat, just get the divorce. Also would be nice if you didn't drain the bank account while your at it.... I believe many just lack the fortitude to make something better. Instead of throwing it away....making it new, different, workable...no wonder our world is such a mess.
I can't argue with that. I've gone through hell and back in my relationship of 10 years but we've worked hard to keep it together. Some people run up against one roadblock and call it quits. I just hope they do it before kids are involved.

Fair enough. People should spend more time getting to know each other before making a lifelong commitment (marriage). If they choose to make a lifelong committment, they should be committed to making it lifelong.
Ideally, you're right, but as they say, "the best laid plans of mice and men often go astray."

Fair enough. People should spend more time getting to know each other before making a lifelong commitment (marriage). If they choose to make a lifelong committment, they should be committed to making it lifelong.
I never did get married to my husband. We're just commonlaw. We talked about marriage, and thought, meh. Why bother...maybe later when we need an excuse for a big party. And I told him, "That's fine, because I don't really want to spend all that money on a dress I'll only wear, what, maximum three times in my life anyway!"

He threw his pepsi at me:).

I can't argue with that. I've gone through hell and back in my relationship of 10 years but we've worked hard to keep it together. Some people run up against one roadblock and call it quits. I just hope they do it before kids are involved.

In definite agreement there

I can't argue with that. I've gone through hell and back in my relationship of 10 years but we've worked hard to keep it together. Some people run up against one roadblock and call it quits. I just hope they do it before kids are involved.

16 years! Woot!

And no kids involved, though perhaps a few too many roadblocks along the way.

No, sometimes it's truly no one's fault. Sometimes people just grow in different directions.
That is why I am in favor of Contract Marriages where all Contract Law applies.

Sign a contract for 5, 10, life, whatever.

The person who breaks the Contract Loses. Period.

The reason for many of these divorces, infidelities ... male or female.. is because people are excessively selfish. They only see their perspective. Instead of saying what could I do to help make "our marriage" a happy one they are saying "I" am unhappy and "I" want out. .
Which is encouraged by teh american way of life. The American way of life is all about "me, me, me" and getting your way RIGHT NOW. You can't expect everyone to change the way of life they have been raised with and see everywhere around them and are encoruaged to be. America isn't encoruaged to help the little guy or your fellow man, you are encouraged to do what is best for you and do what you want.

The reason for many of these divorces, infidelities ... male or female.. is because people are excessively selfish. They only see their perspective. Instead of saying what could I do to help make "our marriage" a happy one they are saying "I" am unhappy and "I" want out.

Of course they are more reasonable reasons for divorce and many more reasonable ways to get one. Such as don't cheat, just get the divorce. Also would be nice if you didn't drain the bank account while your at it.... I believe many just lack the fortitude to make something better. Instead of throwing it away....they should make it new, different, workable...no wonder our world is such a mess.
It's the logical result of people constantly being told things like "the individual is the most important thing," "do your own thing," etc. Eventually, the pendulum will swing back the other way, with more emphasis being placed on the family, the community, the society; in which case there will be a rise in mental illness, suicide, etc. Too bad we can't figure out how to strike a balance between the two.

Ihatevacations']Which is encouraged by teh american way of life. The American way of life is all about "me, me, me" and getting your way RIGHT NOW. You can't expect everyone to change the way of life they have been raised with and see everywhere around them and are encoruaged to be. America isn't encoruaged to help the little guy or your fellow man, you are encouraged to do what is best for you and do what you want.
I can't believe I'm actually going to have to agree with you on this! Quick! Someone make note of this! :p

16 years! Woot!

And no kids involved, though perhaps a few too many roadblocks along the way.
16 years...wow!

And seriously...have you ever met anyone (under the age of 64 anyway) in a long term relationship that didn't admit it hasn't all been roses?

Roadblocks are normal. No roadblocks are not.

It's the logical result of people constantly being told things like "the individual is the most important thing," "do your own thing," etc. Eventually, the pendulum will swing back the other way, with more emphasis being placed on the family, the community, the society; in which case there will be a rise in mental illness, suicide, etc. Too bad we can't figure out how to strike a balance between the two.
LOL.

We're screwed.

Ihatevacations']Which is encouraged by teh american way of life. The American way of life is all about "me, me, me" and getting your way RIGHT NOW. You can't expect everyone to change the way of life they have been raised with and see everywhere around them and are encoruaged to be. America isn't encoruaged to help the little guy or your fellow man, you are encouraged to do what is best for you and do what you want.

Yes.. American society does push the "me" paradigm a little too much for my liking.

The US Court system disagrees with you on that. There is such a thing as "communal property," which is anything acquired after the date of the marriage, or, in the case of common law marriages, the requisite witing period whatever that may be. Generally, judges decide who gets what out of that.
I know they disagree, and I think it's BS. It creates a situation ripe for fraud. That's why, in today's litigeous society, a pre-nup has become almost indespensible. (Of course, reasonable, unselfish people who have done their homework on their to-be spouse rarely need such precautions, but those are not the type to get divorced anyway).

LOL.

We're screwed.
ROFL! Um ... not lately, no. Oh! Sorry, I was thinking about me again! :D

I can't believe I'm actually going to have to agree with you on this! Quick! Someone make note of this! :p
On that note add to it that we agreed on a fact, not one of your, or my, random opinions.

It's the logical result of people constantly being told things like "the individual is the most important thing," "do your own thing," etc. Eventually, the pendulum will swing back the other way, with more emphasis being placed on the family, the community, the society; in which case there will be a rise in mental illness, suicide, etc. Too bad we can't figure out how to strike a balance between the two.

I'm confused. Why do you think a new emphasis on community and family will mean more suicide and mental illness? DId I understand that correctly?

Yes.. American society does push the "me" paradigm a little too much for my liking.
Don't worry. As more immigrants arrive on your shores from more communal cultures, it'll be less an issue.

My people are already communal...part of why we're so misunderstood by other Canadians, but so well matched with Chinese, Pakistani, and Latinos. Weird.

It's the logical result of people constantly being told things like "the individual is the most important thing," "do your own thing," etc. Eventually, the pendulum will swing back the other way, with more emphasis being placed on the family, the community, the society; in which case there will be a rise in mental illness, suicide, etc. Too bad we can't figure out how to strike a balance between the two.

Balance... that sounds so refreshing right now. Maybe we will get a few years of balance before the pendulum overcorrects again. :)

I'm confused. Why do you think a new emphasis on community and family will mean more suicide and mental illness? DId I understand that correctly?
Because as people are pressured to subsume their individual desires in favour of the collective good, there will be those who will feel trapped and unable to fulfill their personal potential. There will also be those that are forced to be something they are not in order to conform to society's priorities (which is just what happens now, but in this case, society's priorities will be a bit different, but no less powerful).

I doubt there would be MORE...though the types of mental illnesses might change as society does...

I'm confused. Why do you think a new emphasis on community and family will mean more suicide and mental illness? DId I understand that correctly?
Yes you did. Too much emphasis on the individual results in higher divorce rates and children being raised in one-parent families. Too much emphasis on groups ( family, community, etc. ) results in higher incidences of metal illness and suicide.

It's the logical result of people constantly being told things like "the individual is the most important thing," "do your own thing," etc. Eventually, the pendulum will swing back the other way, with more emphasis being placed on the family, the community, the society; in which case there will be a rise in mental illness, suicide, etc. Too bad we can't figure out how to strike a balance between the two.
Again, IMO, there is a big difference between Individualisim and Selfish Nihlisim. The former is the basis for self identity and the creation of wealth, the latter is the American Media Created SocioPolitical Paradigm.

Because as people are pressured to subsume their individual desires in favour of the collective good, there will be those who will feel trapped and unable to fulfill their personal potential. There will also be those that are forced to be something they are not in order to conform to society's priorities (which is just what happens now, but in this case, society's priorities will be a bit different, but no less powerful).

I doubt there would be MORE...though the types of mental illnesses might change as society does...
Maybe mroe suicide, but maybe not. We will msot liekly destroy ourselves before we become that communal, and Imean in a civil war :rolleyes:. But at least the murder rate will go down

You've painted up your lips and curled you tinted hair
Ruby, are you contemplatin' goin' out somewhere?
The shadows on the wall tell me the sun is goin' down.
Oh Ruby -- don't take your love to town.

It wasn't me that started that old crazy Asian war
But I was proud to go and do my patriotc chore.
Yes, it's true that I'm not the man I used to be.
Oh Ruby -- I still need some company.

It's hard to love a man whose legs are bent and paralyzed
And the wants and the needs of a woman your age, Ruby I realize
But it won't be long, I've heard them say, until I'm not around
Oh Ruby -- don't take your love to town.

She's leavin' now, 'cause I just heard the slammin' of the door
The way I know I've heard it slam 100 times before
And if I could move, I'd get my gun and put her in the ground
Oh Ruby -- don't take your love to town.
Oh Ruby -- for God's sake, turn around.

I'm not sure if this is actually appropriate, but it came to my mind as I read that article, so I thought I'd post this. I hope no one was offended.

Ihatevacations']Maybe mroe suicide, but maybe not. We will msot liekly destroy ourselves before we become that communal, and Imean in a civil war :rolleyes:. But at least the murder rate will go down
Na. I think as other cultures come in and bring a more communal influence, things will just become a bit less extreme. But I'm extremely pro-immigration, so hey :eek:

I'm not sure if this is actually appropriate, but it came to my mind as I read that article, so I thought I'd post this. I hope no one was offended.
It was going fine until he said he'd take his gun and put her in the ground...

...I thought that was leading to suicide, not thoughts of murder.

I'm not sure if this is actually appropriate, but it came to my mind as I read that article, so I thought I'd post this. I hope no one was offended.

Offended? I have Leonard Nimoy singing that tune on my .mp3 lists, baby!!

AGH!!! Make it stop, ma! Why the torture? Why the endless stream of articels? AAAAGH!!!!

For one, I find that Eutrusca searches and finds articals pertinent to today, but not widely explored. You can find dozens of threads on NS critical of the war on terror, but who has stopped to think about what our soldiers are facing on the home front? Where else is there a discussion on the problems they face, the threat posed to their lives by these problems, and the alternatives to divorce and the breaking up of families? It is a very real problem that some of us are interested in.

Like Eut, I remember the stateside spouses that cheated on and left their husbands during the Vietnam War. "Jodys" based their love lives on lonely women. All the nerds that were 4F were suddenly the hot studs on the market. The effect was devastating to our troops. On the other hand, the guys that returned were greatly changed. Although the conditions of war duty was much harsher in Vietnam than it is now, no one can go through something like that and remain the same...and not always for the better. Often, the man that returned was not the husband that left. The smart ones worked at their marriage and made it work for them in a new way.

For those of you who don't appreciate Eutrusca's threads on topics other than war, gays, religion, and the evil US, look at the little plastic thing under your hand. If you move it around, it will make a little arrow (or other cursor) move around on your computer screen. If you click the button you have designated on another thread that interests you, then you won't have to be tortured by participating in a thread you hate by a person you don't like. Simple...bet you can do it. You will even notice that if other people are not interested in his thread either, it will disappear from the forum 1st page *poof*. Neat, huh?!

this has either very suddenly or slowly changed course in my opion from its original content*

*I have not read the 6 pages.

Dear John Letters are d(i/e)sbicable(sp) and its quite obviously the worst thing you could send a soldier as the Army is about trust and brotherhood but if i guy suddenly stops caring about himself because he loses his Gal back home he may just give up and put his squad or unit at risk.

Bad play.

It was going fine until he said he'd take his gun and put her in the ground...

...I thought that was leading to suicide, not thoughts of murder.

Well, both are pretty gloomy prospects, but seeing as he can't move and he's dying, it's not like much is going to happen in the immediate future, or even long-term.

I just like it 'cause it's goofy when Leonard sings it. He has nearly the same singing voice my Dad had.

this has either very suddenly or slowly changed course in my opion from its original content*

*I have not read the 6 pages.

Dear John Letters are d(i/e)sbicable(sp) and its quite obviously the worst thing you could send a soldier as the Army is about trust and brotherhood but if i guy suddenly stops caring about himself because he loses his Gal back home he may just give up and put his squad or unit at risk.

Bad play.

Well, the worst thing for a close personal relationship, particularly a young relationship, is to have a protracted seperation as relationships are about intimacy. But if one partner stops caring about a relationship to the extent that they put such things as 'Army brother/sisterhood' ahead of that relationship, he/she may be putting their close personal relationship at risk.

Bad plays work both ways, unfortunately. There's more than one side to each and every story.

Well, the worst thing for a close personal relationship, particularly a young relationship, is to have a protracted seperation as relationships are about intimacy. But if one partner stops caring about a relationship to the extent that they put such things as 'Army brother/sisterhood' ahead of that relationship, he/she may be putting their close personal relationship at risk.

Bad plays work both ways, unfortunately. There's more than one side to each and every story.


i feel deeply for both sides of this issue,the man is going to be hurt,but one never knows what the womens problems maybe.it is easy to say how horrible she was for doing that.
maybe she should out of respect,wait till the soldier comes home and then leave.cheating....awful