NationStates Jolt Archive

Keru & other Muslims: Comment?

(Washington, DC-July 14, 05) Kamal Nawash, the president of the Free Muslims Coalition (FMC), a national Muslim organization with 15 chapters, will be appearing on the Aljazeerah TV network, this coming Monday, to discuss whether Muslim American leaders are doing enough to fight extremism and terrorism. Aljazeerah is the most watched news network in the Arab world and is literally viewed by tens of millions of people every day.

The position of the Free Muslims Coalition is that the Muslim leadership has not done their fair share in fighting extremism and support for terrorism. We recognize that every Muslim organization produce press releases expressing outrage when a terrorist act occurs. Some organizations have gone as far as taking out ads in major news papers and producing TV commercials to express their outrage at terror attacks. However, these responses are not enough.

The war against terrorism and, in particular, terrorism committed by Muslims is an ideological battle that cannot be won without the help of Muslims themselves. These Muslim organizations should be focusing their anti-terrorism and anti-extremism efforts towards Muslims in the United States and abroad. They should be organizing rallies, going to mosques, community centers and everywhere Muslims congregate to fight the ideology of hate that is being advocated by the Jihadists terrorists and extremists.

This is what the Muslim leadership has not done or has not done enough. What good does it do to take out ads on TV or news papers which primarily cater to non-Muslim audiences? These ads are a waste of money and are no more than propaganda pieces designed to help certain organizations claim that they are fighting terrorism.

This is not to say that Muslim American leaders support terrorism. However, their response to Islamic terrorism is at a minimum incompetent and ineffective. Normally the ineffectiveness of any particular organization is not a “big deal.” In this instance however, it is dangerous and sad. It is sad because Muslim “leaders” the world over actually have the power to discredit the ideology that is relied on by the terrorists to justify their suicidal murderous behavior. This is why the Free Muslims Coalition regularly challenges other Muslim organizations to stand up and do the right thing.

The Free Muslims Coalition is made up of Muslims and Arabs who love their heritage and religions. However, we are enormously saddened by the violence committed by Muslims around the world and even more saddened by the silence and inadequacy of the Muslim leadership.

Please share your comments about this article and feel free to suggest talking points for FMC to make on Aljazeera.

Help us fight terrorism by making a contribution. To contribute, please visit:
http://www.freemuslims.org/support/donate.php

For more information, visit our website at www.freemuslims.org (http://www.freemuslims.org)

Yes-they need money too. Another charity to watch.

Gee...is that saying that the Muslim leaders in America arent doing enough to speak out against terrorism being done in thier own religions name?

Ya think?

Hmm..you think maybe that Muslim Leaders all over the world should maybe be denouncing these kinds of vile acts a bit more?

Huh Maybe?

Yes-they need money too. Another charity to watch.
Everybody with a website has their hand out, so that's not an issue with me.

FMAT has strong issues with CAIR and consideres them an appeasment group. That bumps them up 3 or 4 notches in my opinion.

At least FMAT says the right things and chastizes the heirarchy for not doing more.

Radical Islamic Terror can only be stopped by Muslims and their Clerics. Shooting people who want to die doesn't help. You've got to get them to stop wanting to die. the Dar al Harb can't do that.

The biggest problem is that it isn't always obvious. The guys who bombed London recently turned out to be "just average folks". Except for one of them who "sometimes showed a little anger over the war in Iraq".

Nobody expected them to do what they did. But, then, nobody suspected Dahmer could have been who he was. Or Bundy.

We (Muslims) didn't know any more than anyone else.

Oh, sure, sometimes they're obvious. There's an inheret problem, though. A person is *allowed* to express anger at the government or the war. I do it all the time.

We (Muslims) denounce terror all the time. We're not silent. It's not just American Muslims, either. On a recent thread about this, I put up at least a dozen links to various nation's Muslim leaders vehemently denouncing terrorism.

If someone at my Mosque say they're angry about the war in Iraq, what am I supposed to do? He has every right to be angry and to express it. If I shot him outright for it, I'd go to prison for murder.

Should all Muslims who express dissent be watched? Not sure if there's enough resources for that and I think it could borderline on breeching right to privacy.

I think the real problem here is that everyone says Muslims need to do more, but nobody gives an answer as to what exactly to do. How loudly and how often do we need to denounce terrorism before it's enough?

<snip>I think the real problem here is that everyone says Muslims need to do more, but nobody gives an answer as to what exactly to do. How loudly and how often do we need to denounce terrorism before it's enough?
I think these two paragraphs really sum it up:
The war against terrorism and, in particular, terrorism committed by Muslims is an ideological battle that cannot be won without the help of Muslims themselves. These Muslim organizations should be focusing their anti-terrorism and anti-extremism efforts towards Muslims in the United States and abroad. They should be organizing rallies, going to mosques, community centers and everywhere Muslims congregate to fight the ideology of hate that is being advocated by the Jihadists terrorists and extremists.

This is what the Muslim leadership has not done or has not done enough. <snip>

This is not to say that Muslim American leaders support terrorism. However, their response to Islamic terrorism is at a minimum incompetent and ineffective. Normally the ineffectiveness of any particular organization is not a “big deal.” In this instance however, it is dangerous and sad. It is sad because Muslim “leaders” the world over actually have the power to discredit the ideology that is relied on by the terrorists to justify their suicidal murderous behavior. This is why the Free Muslims Coalition regularly challenges other Muslim organizations to stand up and do the right thing.

I just find it interesting that this group can't get the media attention that CAIR does.

I'm gonna focus on this for a bit:

Muslim “leaders” the world over actually have the power to discredit the ideology that is relied on by the terrorists to justify their suicidal murderous behavior.

Actually, they don't. Does a Baptist leader denouncing Catholic practices give the Priests even a moment of pause? No, of course not. But they're both Christians, are they not?

Yes, I *can* go to Iraq and tell Zarqawi to stick it where the sun don't shine, but guess what ... the next day you'd see me beheaded on TV. Even though I'm Muslim. He'd say, "This man is apostate. Kill him!" and bye-bye Keruvalia.

We do what we can where we can. For some people, it isn't enough. I am excersizing some of my personal power and continuing a letter writing campaign to Muslim clerics around the world, but I can't do much more than that. Unless someone wants to fly me around the world in their personal jet at their expense, then I'll gladly meet with them face to face provided, in some cases, that I have a well armed escort. (Any volunteers?)

In a lot of cases in the Muslim world, just the simple act of letter writing is impossible. If you can barely afford food, chances are very likely that you can't afford postage. This letter writing campaign that I'm on is costing me about $120 per month. That's a fortune to some families around the world.

There is no black and white on this one.

I'm gonna focus on this for a bit:



Actually, they don't. Does a Baptist leader denouncing Catholic practices give the Priests even a moment of pause? No, of course not. But they're both Christians, are they not?

Yes, I *can* go to Iraq and tell Zarqawi to stick it where the sun don't shine, but guess what ... the next day you'd see me beheaded on TV. Even though I'm Muslim. He'd say, "This man is apostate. Kill him!" and bye-bye Keruvalia.

We do what we can where we can. For some people, it isn't enough. I am excersizing some of my personal power and continuing a letter writing campaign to Muslim clerics around the world, but I can't do much more than that. Unless someone wants to fly me around the world in their personal jet at their expense, then I'll gladly meet with them face to face provided, in some cases, that I have a well armed escort. (Any volunteers?)

In a lot of cases in the Muslim world, just the simple act of letter writing is impossible. If you can barely afford food, chances are very likely that you can't afford postage. This letter writing campaign that I'm on is costing me about $120 per month. That's a fortune to some families around the world.

There is no black and white on this one.

I would like to disagree with you. There are more moderate Muslims in the world than there are radicals. If all the moderates spoke with one voice, they would be heard. To tremble in fear because you might be killed for speaking out against the terrorists plays right into their hands. To tremble in fear and not speak out gives them power over you and all Muslims.

I think the article is good and their going on TV and speaking to the Arab world is a step in the right direction.

I would like to disagree with you. There are more moderate Muslims in the world than there are radicals. If all the moderates spoke with one voice, they would be heard. To tremble in fear because you might be killed for speaking out against the terrorists plays right into their hands. To tremble in fear and not speak out gives them power over you and all Muslims.


Oh really? Then why don't you do it? Terrorism affects you as much as it affects me. Why aren't you going to Zarqawi's house and having a frank and open discussion with him? As a matter of fact, what are you doing other than spreading falsehoods about Islam on the internet?

I don't "tremble in fear". The only thing I fear is Allah. However, to walk up to a man like Zarqawi and tell him he's wrong, knowing I'll be killed for it, is suicide. Suicide is a sin and I fear Allah's retribution for that sin.

Actually, they don't. Does a Baptist leader denouncing Catholic practices give the Priests even a moment of pause? No, of course not. But they're both Christians, are they not?Yes, but this is not a case of Sect A being solely responsible for terrorisim and Sect B denouncing them. <snip> There is no black and white on this one. Sure it is. This is a case of Radical Preachers attracting disaffected adherants to do unspeakable things. That is how it has worked in England. This morning I was listening to an Imam complaining about how there has been an influx of charismatic young firebrands - most often trained in Saudi schools - that preach hatred and destruction of all that is not Dar al Islam. He said that the Youth are drawn to the young firebrands and don't listen to their elders.

In a more equivilent contemporary Christian example, were David Hale or Richard Butler show up at a "normal" protestant church and preach a typical "death to the jews" sermon, they would be sumarily arrested for Tresspass and charged with whatever we could get away with charging them with (if they weren't dragged outside and beaten first).

THAT is what is not happening at Mosques world wide. That is what FMC is protesting.

Oh really? Then why don't you do it? Terrorism affects you as much as it affects me. Why aren't you going to Zarqawi's house and having a frank and open discussion with him?If I could find Zarquwi's house, I would make sure its location was lotted into a Tomahawk's guidance system. As a matter of fact, what are you doing other than spreading falsehoods about Islam on the internet?I know this isn't directed to me, but I try not to debate Muslim Doctrine and the letter I posted is from a Muslim group.
I don't "tremble in fear". The only thing I fear is Allah. However, to walk up to a man like Zarqawi and tell him he's wrong, knowing I'll be killed for it, is suicide. Perhaps, but if the Men of a Mosque hear someone preaching Terror, then they should expel the interloper. Make the Terrorists find other avenues to spread hatred and gather recruits other than openly in mosques.

From what I'm reading, European countries are becoming concerned about the effect certain clerics are having on the congregation. There is a proposal in The Netherlands to film at random the service in five mosques, then have a panel of religious people discuss the message on live TV each week.

This is clearly intended, in my view, to get Moslem clerics to understand there will be scrutiny of their messages and that they will be held accountable for their message.

I would like to disagree with you. There are more moderate Muslims in the world than there are radicals. If all the moderates spoke with one voice, they would be heard. To tremble in fear because you might be killed for speaking out against the terrorists plays right into their hands. To tremble in fear and not speak out gives them power over you and all Muslims.

I think the article is good and their going on TV and speaking to the Arab world is a step in the right direction.

One of the beauties of Islam is that lack of one voice, brought about by an individuals relationship with God, without needing to go through the middlemen and have them think and speak for you.

One of the beauties of Islam is that lack of one voice, brought about by an individuals relationship with God, without needing to go through the middlemen and have them think and speak for you.
Is that not what is happening now though?

I am in total agreement with the concept of the personal relationship to God, without the need for middlemen. However, using that as a reason or excuse for not having "one voice" (with concommitant action) in regards to heinous child-killing violence is appaling.

Is that not what is happening now though?


On a very, very, very limited scale.

One of the beauties of Islam is that lack of one voice, brought about by an individuals relationship with God, without needing to go through the middlemen and have them think and speak for you.

Then why do you have to ask the Iman?

http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng

And if you do not speak as one voice against the terrorists, what do you think the reaction of the non-Muslim world will be?

Is that not what is happening now though?

I am in total agreement with the concept of the personal relationship to God, without the need for middlemen. However, using that as a reason or excuse for not having "one voice" (with concommitant action) in regards to heinous child-killing violence is appaling.

I guess the big problem is that the Muslim community is not homogenous. It's hard to get Turks, Americans, Canadians, Arabs, Syrians, Jordanians, Indonesians and Iranians to all agree on something. And even if they do, who speaks for them? I can't presume to do so, and I don't know anyone else who could.
Heinous child killing, as awful as it is, happens all the time. It happened when we invaded Iraq. Granted, we did not mean to do it, but I don't really think that the parents cared. I sure wouldn't. The poor children are just as dead and maimed either way.

Then why do you have to ask the Iman?

http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng

And if you do not speak as one voice against the terrorists, what do you think the reaction of the non-Muslim world will be?

Why do I have to ask the Imam what? I don't.

When someone does speak out against the terrorists (i.e. Iranian government sending condolences to Britain), no one even cares. Individuals speak out all the time, as people. A Christian doesn't have to go into the streets and shout "I'm a Christian, and I'm against terrorism!", and neither does a Muslim. Targeting non-combatants and animals is strictly forbidden by the Qur'an, so I guess those terrorists who terrorize in the name of God are really going to get a nasty suprise.

Why do I have to ask the Imam what? I don't.

When someone does speak out against the terrorists (i.e. Iranian government sending condolences to Britain), no one even cares. Individuals speak out all the time, as people. A Christian doesn't have to go into the streets and shout "I'm a Christian, and I'm against terrorism!", and neither does a Muslim. Targeting non-combatants and animals is strictly forbidden by the Qur'an, so I guess those terrorists who terrorize in the name of God are really going to get a nasty suprise.

a question.
Why are muslims angry about Iraq? I understand Iraqis being angry, but a pakistani or an indonesian?

a question.
Why are muslims angry about Iraq? I understand Iraqis being angry, but a pakistani or an indonesian?

To understand the answer to that question, you must first understand the reason, as they see it (and as it probably is) as to why we went into Iraq in the first place. So, take a swing at it, and hit me back with your answer. :cool:

To understand the answer to that question, you must first understand the reason, as they see it (and as it probably is) as to why we went into Iraq in the first place. So, take a swing at it, and hit me back with your answer. :cool:

I'm refering to Muslims in europe, and america. What you/they think the US and UK are trying to wipe out the muslim way of life, or something like that? launch a little crusade? I honestly don't know.
Shit alot of british thought the war was a bad idea, but it was only british muslims that were involved in the attack. I don't understand what would make someone turn on their own country just because the country being occupied is of the same faith

Keru & other Muslims: Comment?
I'm not a Muslim, but...

A Saudi imam (Islamic religious leader) who opposed terrorism recently cried during a public reading of the Qu'ran.

http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ClipMediaID=52628&ak=null

The terrorists are uncivilized, wacko, fundamentalist barbarians, not true Muslims. The Qu'ran states that Muslims should not return evil with evil and that's what Bin Laden and other terrorists are doing.

I'm refering to Muslims in europe, and america. What you/they think the US and UK are trying to wipe out the muslim way of life, or something like that? launch a little crusade? I honestly don't know.
Shit alot of british thought the war was a bad idea, but it was only british muslims that were involved in the attack. I don't understand what would make someone turn on their own country just because the country being occupied is of the same faith

You were reffering to Indoneasians and Pakistanis. I don't know. Maybe because this is an unjust war. Why is anyone against it?
Maybe the reason they turned on thier own country is because they feel that they belong to something bigger. I don't know what goes through thier heads.

On a very, very, very limited scale.
With not so limited consequenses in the terms of innocent victims.

Targeting non-combatants and animals is strictly forbidden by the Qur'an, so I guess those terrorists who terrorize in the name of God are really going to get a nasty suprise. I would much rather we found a way to give them the nasty suprise first - so they stop killing innocents - and send them to Allah for judgement later.

Why are muslims angry about Iraq? I understand Iraqis being angry, but a pakistani or an indonesian? Iraq is today's excuse. We weren't in Iraq for WTC I, 9/11, Lockerbie, the Shoe Bomber, etc, etc.

Maybe the reason they turned on thier own country is because they feel that they belong to something bigger. I don't know what goes through thier heads.Actually, we do. They believe they are part of a bigger Jihaad to establish the soverignty of Islam. That much is clear from the notes, documents and annotated Korans taken from terrorist hideouts. It is imaterial that that belief is not the belief of the average Muslim, it is the belief of the people willing to kill and die.

As a "Christian" country, the US does its' damnedist to weed out and stop nutball "Christians" like the "Christian Identity"/KKK/NeoNazi/Branch Davidian nutburgers before they go apeshit on the population. We are mostly successful because the population, as a whole, are willing to turn the nutburgers in to the authorities - either directly or by providing information. So our violent nutburgers have to set up in isolated compounds to spew incitement to hatred/violence. They can't do it openly because they will be derided, shouted down &/or arrested. (For 7 years I lived rather near the Aryan Nations compound in Idaho - before we shut it down with a series of law suits, so dealing with violent US religious nutburgers is old hat...)

US citizens, the majority of whom are marginally "Christian," will not tolerate that kind ov violent activity from "one of their own" - regardless of sectarian affiliation.

I think there is an interesting paralell that can be drawn from "The Book" in regards to people teaching abhorrent things under the guise of religion. In one of the "Gospels" Jesus is preaching in Nazereth and says things that are contridictory to Jewish teaching and Law. The men of the synagogue take such exception to his teaching that they attempt to throw him off a cliff.

That is the kind of activisim in support of "True Islam" that Kamal Nawash of the Free Muslim Coalition is talking about. There is much good "talk" about how the spldy dopes are not good Muslims, but there seem to be awfully few arrests. While there will certainly be a few "suprise" nuts like the English bombers are purported to be, they most certainly are n te minority. Somebody knows who and where most of these monsters are. Why aren't they being turned in? If there are entire enclaves of "true believer" nutburgers, why doesn't somebody tell the authorities where they are? So you see, without positive evidence to the contrary, it seems that many "normal" Muslims are sheltering the nutburgers - and believe they have some good reason for doing so. If the Nutburgers were a small minority, then normal Muslims should have little to fear from them. The sooner the small minority is rounded up, the safer their children will be. However, if the Nutburgers are in fact the Majority, then the question has to be one of why/how is Islam being so twisted to get this kind of nutburger following/response and, since it seems to be a growing element, what do we do about it? Those questions are not somthing the non-Muslim world can do anything with.

Iranian government sending condolences to Britain.
if you remind Iran their ayatula(sp?) had very intresting speach that sound much like:
we are against the terror in london that al-qaida made and we are against al-qaida. but al-qaida aren't muslims. they create by USA and Israel to attack us and the whole islam.
death to USA. death to Israel. death to britain.


did it good as condemning the terror?

Believe me ... if I knew where bin Laden was, I'd turn his skinny ass in for the 25 million bucks. I could use the money.

If I knew where terror cells were, I'd point them out with great big neon signs.

However, I can no more find bin Laden than the US Army can and they have way more resources than I do.

As I said before, we don't know where they are. We're not sheltering them. We really, honestly don't know.

if you remind Iran their ayatula(sp?) had very intresting speach that sound much like:
we are against the terror in london that al-qaida made and we are against al-qaida. but al-qaida aren't muslims. they create by USA and Israel to attack us and the whole islam.
death to USA. death to Israel. death to britain.

did it good as condemning the terror?

If I could understand your syntax, I would respond more thoroughly.
It wasn't 'thier' Ayatollah, it was 'an' Ayatollah.
He is correct, this terrorism is not Islam, it is partially, perhaps mainly, as he said, a 'bastard child of the West.'
Death to America, Death to Israel and Death to Britian, is strong rhetoric. That being said, it would be more correct to say something like "Death to the American government, those lying hypocrites!"
It is wierd. When I went to Iran, I was treated almost like a celebrity. The people like Americans. They do not like our government, or the perceived evils of our government, as told to them by thier own government.

O Christian Imperialist Crusaders! Get out of Iraqi! You inquisition committed genocide In Spain and now you want Iraqi too! And oil! We only peaceful and wanting to live. There was no civilization in europe until we come and then you drop bombs on us so we fight like we only can! We win anyway cause we won't stop, ever!

Believe me ... if I knew where bin Laden was, I'd turn his skinny ass in for the 25 million bucks. I could use the money.

If I knew where terror cells were, I'd point them out with great big neon signs.

However, I can no more find bin Laden than the US Army can and they have way more resources than I do.

As I said before, we don't know where they are. We're not sheltering them. We really, honestly don't know.
I know you don't Keru, and I know no other US or UK Muslim does either. The point Kamal is trying to make (and he's trying to make it on Al Jazyra(sp)) is that there are Muslims that DO. That there are Muslims in the Global Community that DO have access to and knowledge of Radical Imams. That by not acting, they are making assertions like "Is Islam becomming a Death Cult" possible.

There ARE things that all local (US/UK) Muslims can do though. Are you paying attention to who is using your Mosque? Are you keeping an eye on your impressionable youth? Are you checking your unsolicited literature for "Kill the Infidel" ideology? (There's a lot of weird stuff being shipped from Saudi these days) Or are you just "tightening ranks" and missing clues because you feel attacked?

These are all things that Churches in "Aryan Nations Land" had to do until Butler and his cronies were kicked out. Those are all things that any community in good concience should be doing if there is a potential for radicalisim... especially the violent kind.