NationStates Jolt Archive

I currently live in America and I'm planning on moving to a new country anywhere from a year from now to three years. And I'm not sure where I should live. I'm planning on taking a tour of Europe, to get a general feel of it, but I'd still like some ideas.

Basically, what I want:
A well-paying military, that'll let me keep my goatee, or a strong-enough economy to where a person without a college degree could support themselves and still go to school.
Not a violent, extremely poor, or unstable country.
Most people there must speak English.
If they don't speak English, Spanish is preferable.
Good universities and good healthcare.
Preferably, no wacko fundie Jews, Christians, or Muslims.

Originally, I was planning on moving to Britain. My father's recommended Germany. Someone online recommended Costa Rica and it looks nice. I've also been considering France, recently, too. But reading about how they sunk the Greenpeace ship was rather disturbing.

So, now tell me: Which country should I move to and why?

The U.K. has cool raves, I want to go there purely for that reason.
Everything else on top of that makes me want to move there.
The fact that Howard is raping our country makes me definite I'll be living there as soon as I finish university.

The U.K. has cool raves, I want to go there purely for that reason.
Raves don't interest me. Although, what my father and others have said about they have rock bands at local pubs sounds neat. We don't really have that much here, in America. It's all just clubs that are designed for musicians and there aren't too many of them. Dance clubs, too, are a hell of a lot more popular than rock clubs. The closest rock club nearby me is in a dangerous part of Washington D.C..

I'd say The Netherlands. Most people speak excellent English & it's a very tolerant, educated, stable society.

Finland sounds pretty perfect for you, well, except for the well-paying military.

dude stay in the usa, its a great place, i might even move there one day myself

A well-paying military, that'll let me keep my goatee, or a strong-enough economy to where a person without a college degree could support themselves and still go to school.

Check.


Not a violent, extremely poor, or unstable country.

Check.


Most people there must speak English.

Check.


If they don't speak English, Spanish is preferable.


No check.


Good universities and good healthcare.


Double check check.


Preferably, no wacko fundie Jews, Christians, or Muslims.


Double check check.

My father's recommended Germany.

Your dad's right.

dude stay in the usa, its a great place, i might even move there one day myself
What country are you living in now?
Ethiopia?

Britain is pretty cool, as long as you avoid the big cities. Oh, and the Midlands. I've lived in the Midlands all my life, and I can truthfully say that it sucks total balls.

But rest of Britain = Pretty damn cool.

Well if you must move and a well paying military if of concern to you have you looked inth the French Foreign Legion? I almost did it. I served in the U.S. Navy in the 90's and met a few. They seem to take care of their people. 15 years and retirement on an island somewhere if you choose. Their min enlistment is 5 years and you can't be/get married in thet time after which you can opt for French citizenship. I can give more info if your interested.

Preferably, no wacko fundie Jews, Christians, or Muslims.


Double check check.

Doesn’t Germany have a problem with a growing fundamentalist Islamic population? I could be wrong, although that would make them different from most other countries in Western Europe…

Doesn’t Germany have a problem with a growing fundamentalist Islamic population? I could be wrong, although that would make them different from most other countries in Western Europe…

I think France, The Netherlands, Belgium, and obviously England also have the same unfortunate infliction. I hope they work it out. :D

Finland sounds pretty perfect for you, well, except for the well-paying military.
And the fact that he can't find any work in Finland...Or maybe in some bar if he's very lucky.

I wonder why Spain isn't on the list.

And the fact that he can't find any work in Finland...Or maybe in some bar if he's very lucky.

I wonder why Spain isn't on the list.
Good point, I hear they speak Spanish there.

Move to France. You could join the French Foreign Legion. If you do you'll probably learn French, as well as be eligable for French citizenship after one contract (5 years). As far as I know it is reasonably well paying, plus you get automatic respect from many people by saying "I was in the Foreign Legion."


But I think France is a good option, I just threw the legion in their because you mentioned the military, and anyone of any nationality is eligable to join afaik.

Hey Borgoa, my favourite Swede :)

Is it possible to get a job around there if you can't speak Swedish?

Good on ya, not worth staying in the US anymore, I say Australia meets you requirements the best, plus they want army recruits and you get better pay and equipment then u would in the states.

Move to Britain it has all the things you want and more ----

The British Army is one of the best-trained, best-paid and best-treated forces in the world.

Oxford and Cambridge are arguably the best universities in the world.

The NHS was the first national healthcare system in Europe, and is frankly still the best.

The British Economy is one of the strongest in Europe, and even the world. Even if you fall Unemployed you will get about $350 per week from the government.

Unsuprisingly, the people of England are rather adept at speaking english.

In France they dont speak english, nor in germany. The healthcare in france is appaling, you have to pay to have a doctors appointment!!!!

Germanys economy is falling apart.

Joining the french army is fine and dandy, except when it comes to a war and they surrender, leaving you in a POW camp.

Hey Borgoa, my favourite Swede :)

Is it possible to get a job around there if you can't speak Swedish?

Moi Helioterra... of course, my favourite Finn....

Hmm.... it depends. Some high-level positions in the more multi-national companies do sometimes recruit non-Swedish speakers. So, it is certainly possible... but more difficult. And you would probably have to be coming from a high-level position to be able to be recruited into a position that didn't necisitate Swedish knowledge... does that make sense? You would have to have good English knowledge in these few cases. I think there are a reasonable number of companies these days that have English as their working language (e.g. Nokia in Finland is one). I guess we Scandinavians have to realise that no-one else speaks our lingos... so if we want to go global (and we aren't doing a bad job considering there's not many of us - Nokia, Ikea, Ericsson, Hennes och Mauritz etc) we have to do things in a language that more than just us can understand.

That said, if you wanted to get a regular level entry job you would almost certainly find it very difficult if you didn't speak Swedish.

...snippan...

That said, if you wanted to get a regular level entry job you would almost certainly find it very difficult if you didn't speak Swedish.
That's what I thought. Just like in Finland. (and in most of the countries, I guess)

That's what I thought. Just like in Finland. (and in most of the countries, I guess)

How many public sector (and indeed private sector) jobs demand knowledge of Swedish in Finland these days? Do any?

The healthcare in france is appaling, you have to pay to have a doctors appointment!!!!


You never came to France did you ?
Of course you don't pay for an appointment, and (IIRC) 70% of the 20€ of the consultations are refunded (6€ doesn't sound too high a price for a consultation does it ?).

Australia!

How many public sector (and indeed private sector) jobs demand knowledge of Swedish in Finland these days? Do any?
well well well. Theoretically everyone working in public sector should speak Swedish. But that's not the case (they have studied it but don't remember it anymore). Everyone should get all public services in their own mother language (=Swedish or Finnish, Sami has also an official status) but I'm afraid that it's not always possible, especially in Eastern Finland. There still are language test e.g. for the police.
In private sector it depends on
a) the job
b) the geographic location. Around here e.g. German skills are more appreciated. In Helsinki, Vasa or Åbo it's the other way round.

I find it amazing that there actually are Finnish people who can't speak any Finnish, just Swedish.

Quote-

You never came to France did you ?
Of course you don't pay for an appointment, and (IIRC) 70% of the 20€ of the consultations are refunded (6€ doesn't sound too high a price for a consultation does it ?).

In Britain we dont pay to see our doctor, we just make an appointment. 6 euros is way too much to talk to your 'free' healthcare advisor, i'd prefer to pay nothing thanks

Raves don't interest me. Although, what my father and others have said about they have rock bands at local pubs sounds neat. We don't really have that much here, in America. It's all just clubs that are designed for musicians and there aren't too many of them. Dance clubs, too, are a hell of a lot more popular than rock clubs. The closest rock club nearby me is in a dangerous part of Washington D.C..

There's even pub bands in little shitty towns like the one I grew up in. Tis good.

Where, exactly, did we come across the notion that Germany's economy is falling apart? The BSP (GDP) has been steadily rising over the past five years or so.

Germany is also a great place for University if you decide to learn something new after you move, because the costs of entry are so little. There are many renown technical and automotive schools there.

Unfortunately, one really does have to know German to find work there. The military is extremely minimal and I don't believe very well-paid, although I'm not sure I can trust my memory on that.

Keep in mind, though, that it does not take long to pick up a language when you are surrounded by it. One of my friends moved here from Russia with little English knowledge (almost none) and was almsot fluent within three months.

Seeing as you apparently know at least some Spanish, the other Romance languages should be easy for you to acquire as well, so if you're willing to do military service anyway, you could also consider places like Italy, France, Portugal, and yeah - I don't see why Spain isn't on the list.

At the end of the day, though, either Australia or the UK would likely work best for you. Both meet the vast majority of what you are looking for and, most importantly, are primarily English-speaking. That basically boils it down to this:

Do you like near-eternal cloud cover or a giant ozone layer hole? =)

Personally, I'm planning to move to Canada after I finish my education. I've had just about all I can take of US politics.

~ Jon

O, Canada... My Home and Native Land...

[et cetera]

In Britain we dont pay to see our doctor, we just make an appointment. 6 euros is way too much to talk to your 'free' healthcare advisor, i'd prefer to pay nothing thanks

That doesn't make what you said right.

The remaining 6€ are usually refunded by your... no idea how you call a "complémentaire" in English ? It means "complement" because it's a kind of insurance that pays the complement that isn't covered by the state.

But I'd actually like the British system to be way better than ours. This way we wouldn't have so many brits coming here for healthcare because it's paid by our taxes.

Apparently the French university system is really harsh...only the very top of the year group get to move up to the next year of study.

Eastern Europe is meant to be the next big thing...how about Croatia, The Chezch Republic or Slovenia or something?

well well well. Theoretically everyone working in public sector should speak Swedish. But that's not the case (they have studied it but don't remember it anymore). Everyone should get all public services in their own mother language (=Swedish or Finnish, Sami has also an official status) but I'm afraid that it's not always possible, especially in Eastern Finland. There still are language test e.g. for the police.
In private sector it depends on
a) the job
b) the geographic location. Around here e.g. German skills are more appreciated. In Helsinki, Vasa or Åbo it's the other way round.

I find it amazing that there actually are Finnish people who can't speak any Finnish, just Swedish.


hi, I'm a swedish-speaking finn. yay! I shouldn't encourage anyone to move here if they don't speak finnish, either.

hi, I'm a swedish-speaking finn. yay! I shouldn't encourage anyone to move here if they don't speak finnish, either.

Yay for you. My mother was also (well, I guess she still is)... so I suppose technically that makes me half-Swedish speaking Finn and half Swedish speaking Swede. Hmm....

Anyway, she was from Borgå, hence my nation's name (the Latin for it).

I hate to say it but the UK is out of the question. All the "impartial" newspapers like The Sun and The Daily Mail say we can't hold any more immigrants. Sorry for the inconvienince

well well well. Theoretically everyone working in public sector should speak Swedish. But that's not the case (they have studied it but don't remember it anymore). Everyone should get all public services in their own mother language (=Swedish or Finnish, Sami has also an official status) but I'm afraid that it's not always possible, especially in Eastern Finland. There still are language test e.g. for the police.
In private sector it depends on
a) the job
b) the geographic location. Around here e.g. German skills are more appreciated. In Helsinki, Vasa or Åbo it's the other way round.

I find it amazing that there actually are Finnish people who can't speak any Finnish, just Swedish.

That's quite interesting. So, even the Police in somewhere like Tammerfors would have to take a test in Swedish. Seems a bit over the top.... makes sense for the areas where there are Swedish speakers though (and very nice for Swedish tourists and business visitors - cough cough - keep up the good work ;) )

I've always found people in Åbo quite reluctant to use their Swedish... whereas Vasa seems a lot more acceptant of Swedish language (although I've only been to Vasa once, so perhaps i arrived there on a good day). Oh well...

Surely these days it's only the people of Åland who can't speak Finnish? Although I read in the newspaper that the most "Swedish" municipality (highest percentage of Swedish speakers as mother tongue) in the world is in Finland, not Sweden. Weird huh...

I've had plans of retiring to Aruba for years.

The Uk is pretty good for you then. You could join the army or get a job that doesnt require college education.

Public Services? Tony B's working on restoring them to their pre-Thatcher glory!

Or. Netherlands, Singapore? (No military but strong economy)

Ooh!! Austrailia! My experience of them is a bit wcko, but genuinely nice.

For a less intense experience try New Zealand.

I'd say The Netherlands. Most people speak excellent English & it's a very tolerant, educated, stable society.
That was one serious possibility because, from what I've seen, I'd prefer Netherlands out of all of them, except I have one question: How many conservative Muslims are in the Netherlands, specifically in the government, and is it true what I've heard about how eventually the Netherlands is going to be a socially Conservative country?

I know they're extremely liberal now, but I've heard that they have an overwhelming amount of Muslim immigrants, which means they're probably going to eventually ban gay marriage and so on. Looking at the Wiki on Netherlands' politics, I see that there's no "Muslim" parties, and the largest is Christian. The rest seem neutral. I just thought I'd ask.

Your dad's right.
Alright.

What country are you living in now?
Ethiopia?
America.

Doesn’t Germany have a problem with a growing fundamentalist Islamic population? I could be wrong, although that would make them different from most other countries in Western Europe…
Germany too?

Move to France. You could join the French Foreign Legion. If you do you'll probably learn French, as well as be eligable for French citizenship after one contract (5 years). As far as I know it is reasonably well paying, plus you get automatic respect from many people by saying "I was in the Foreign Legion."


But I think France is a good option, I just threw the legion in their because you mentioned the military, and anyone of any nationality is eligable to join afaik.
Do you need to already KNOW French to join the military, or get a decent job? I know the French are very arrogant about their culture, being particularly nasty towards Americans.

Move to Britain it has all the things you want and more ----

The British Army is one of the best-trained, best-paid and best-treated forces in the world.

Oxford and Cambridge are arguably the best universities in the world.

The NHS was the first national healthcare system in Europe, and is frankly still the best.

The British Economy is one of the strongest in Europe, and even the world. Even if you fall Unemployed you will get about $350 per week from the government.

Unsuprisingly, the people of England are rather adept at speaking english.
Netherlands, Germany, and France sounded more appealing. But that $350 per week is extremely tempting. Shit, that was fucking more than I made when I used to work at Wal-Mart. At Wal-Mart, I only made about $320 a week.

I also could probably become a citizen fairly easily, because I am a British "national." In other words, the child of a British citizen or a British citizen whose lived abroad for a long, long time is a British national, meaning they're technically Britons, but recieve no government benefits. I think it was the Tories that implemented it in the 80's, in order to cut social welfare funding, by only giving native citizens who've lived there all their lives social welfare.

In France they dont speak english, nor in germany. The healthcare in france is appaling, you have to pay to have a doctors appointment!!!!
That's not true. They speak English in both France and Germany. But in France, I've heard that they'd prefer if you spoke at least a little French. From the people I've spoken with, it's basically miscommunication and mutual rudeness. The French percieve tourists as ignorant and intrusive, tourists percieve the French as arrogant and belligerent.

Germanys economy is falling apart.
With outsourcing, yes, but their military is still strong, I'm sure. They export more than any other country in the world. Exporting more than importing is what makes economies grow, which is why both China and Germany are so strong. So, it would be an exaggeration to say "falling apart."

Joining the french army is fine and dandy, except when it comes to a war and they surrender, leaving you in a POW camp.
But then I'd never have to worry about dying, then, would I? Besides, the stereotype about the French military is ignorant. There are Legionnairres that could kick your ass.

Where, exactly, did we come across the notion that Germany's economy is falling apart? The BSP (GDP) has been steadily rising over the past five years or so.
Exactly. Politicians make such ridiculous claims. France's economy is growing at (if I remember correctly) one third the rate of America's, but it is still growing. Yet there are people who would say that France's economy is "falling apart", simply because they don't grow at lightning-quick speed like America, because of the lack of social welfare, goverment regulation, and because they debilitatingly impose free trade on poor countries that simply can't handle it.

I hate to say it but the UK is out of the question. All the "impartial" newspapers like The Sun and The Daily Mail say we can't hold any more immigrants. Sorry for the inconvienince
I'm a British national, not an immigrant. Originally, I was registered as a citizen, but they changed the law and my British passport was in a safe that was stolen years ago. So, I'll need to get a U.S. passport (only U.K. citizens get U.K. passports), which'd let me stay there for at least 6 months, and then do whatever it takes to register as a citizen in Britain.

Oh, and here's an interesting fact: It is against the law in America for a citizen to serve in a foreign military. So, technically, if I move to a foreign country and join the military there while still being a U.S. citizen, I'd be committing a felony. I doubt they enforce it, though, and if push comes to shove, I can always renounce my U.S. citizenship.

The Uk is pretty good for you then. You could join the army or get a job that doesnt require college education.

Public Services? Tony B's working on restoring them to their pre-Thatcher glory!

Or. Netherlands, Singapore? (No military but strong economy)
The Netherlands has to have a military.

Okay, so far I've been broken it down to these three:
Germany: Strong economy, great military.
United Kingdom: Guaranteed $350 a week, excellent military.
Netherlands: Liberal's paradise, probably a decent military.

So, my questions are:
#1. Do you need to speak German or Dutch to go to college in the Netherlands or Germany?
#2. How much does college cost in each country?
#3. How much does each country's military pay?
#4. What are Netherlands and Germany's healthcare and social welfare like?

well?

It has to be Britain! Because we'rrrrrrrrrrrrrre GREAT!

Despite the complaints of many, Britain's armed forces are still very large, and there is always a shortage of recruits. Besides, I think you'll feel alot more welcome in the UK as an American than in the Netherlands or Germany, mainly becuase of Iraq.

As long as you haven't got a problem swearing allegiance to a nice old lady, service in HM Forces would be perfect. i don't know why the French Foreign Legion has such a high reputation, I think the last time it was used in combat was at Dien Bien Phu in 1954... and it lost!

If you have kids (or ever have kids) an English-language education is much more valuable than a Dutch or German one.

It has to be Britain! Because we'rrrrrrrrrrrrrre GREAT!

Despite the complaints of many, Britain's armed forces are still very large, and there is always a shortage of recruits. Besides, I think you'll feel alot more welcome in the UK as an American than in the Netherlands or Germany, mainly becuase of Iraq.
Britain IS dumb because of Iraq. But I'm only half-American. I'm also half-British.

As long as you haven't got a problem swearing allegiance to a nice old lady, service in HM Forces would be perfect. i don't know why the French Foreign Legion has such a high reputation, I think the last time it was used in combat was at Dien Bien Phu in 1954... and it lost!
The queen might be okay now, but the royalty have too much power. The kings and queens of the future might be despots, and they'd have plenty of power to exercise. It also sucks that you have no Constitution, but just "generally accepted principles" to write laws on, therefore, offering no protection against future twists of morality, or bouts of corruption.


If you have kids (or ever have kids) an English-language education is much more valuable than a Dutch or German one.
Says who? And why?

Britain IS dumb because of Iraq. But I'm only half-American. I'm also half-British.


The queen might be okay now, but the royalty have too much power. The kings and queens of the future might be despots, and they'd have plenty of power to exercise. It also sucks that you have no Constitution, but just "generally accepted principles" to write laws on, therefore, offering no protection against future twists of morality, or bouts of corruption.


Says who? And why?

The last time the monarchy refused to pass a piece of legislation into law was 1708. 1708! The United States didn't even exist then. There is no threat of a "seizure of power" by the Windsors.

An English-language education is worth much more because English is the language of science, business and diplomacy. Why else would the Chinese be making all their schoolchildren learn English? The take up of English in Indian schools is now so high that some Indian nationalists are afraid it will become the language of the people, as well as the administration.

It has to be Britain! Because we'rrrrrrrrrrrrrre GREAT!


As long as you haven't got a problem swearing allegiance to a nice old lady, service in HM Forces would be perfect. i don't know why the French Foreign Legion has such a high reputation, I think the last time it was used in combat was at Dien Bien Phu in 1954... and it lost!

well that was a stupid comment, the French foreign legion has perpetually been used in combat over the last 46 years, all over the world especially recently in Cote-d'ivoire, which i recently visited and had an interesting experience involving hostages and the Foreign Legion. They are one of the best trained and hardened counter guerrilla forces in the world.

The queen might be okay now, but the royalty have too much power. The kings and queens of the future might be despots, and they'd have plenty of power to exercise. It also sucks that you have no Constitution, but just "generally accepted principles" to write laws on, therefore, offering no protection against future twists of morality, or bouts of corruption.
Someone British may want to correct me on this, but, as far as I know, the monarch of Britain has no power. Nada. They just get money from the government, and wave at crowds. Oh, possibly she can refuse to appoint a prime minister, or not do exactly what he says, but I'm not sure...

I currently live in America and I'm planning on moving to a new country anywhere from a year from now to three years. And I'm not sure where I should live. I'm planning on taking a tour of Europe, to get a general feel of it, but I'd still like some ideas.

Basically, what I want:
A well-paying military, that'll let me keep my goatee, or a strong-enough economy to where a person without a college degree could support themselves and still go to school.
Not a violent, extremely poor, or unstable country.
Most people there must speak English.
If they don't speak English, Spanish is preferable.
Good universities and good healthcare.
Preferably, no wacko fundie Jews, Christians, or Muslims.

Originally, I was planning on moving to Britain. My father's recommended Germany. Someone online recommended Costa Rica and it looks nice. I've also been considering France, recently, too. But reading about how they sunk the Greenpeace ship was rather disturbing.

So, now tell me: Which country should I move to and why?

are you prepared to pay the taxes in these places? (not trying to antagonize you... it's an honest question.)

Someone British may want to correct me on this, but, as far as I know, the monarch of Britain has no power. Nada. They just get money from the government, and wave at crowds. Oh, possibly she can refuse to appoint a prime minister, or not do exactly what he says, but I'm not sure...

Technically, HM The Queen can (at will)
1) Dissolve Parliament, and call for an election
2) Declare war
3) Sign treaties
4) Choose the Prime minister
5) Refuse to pass into law anything created by Parliament

However in practice, the monarch never exercises authority in these areas. For example, although she technically gets to "choose" the PM, it's always the leader of the party with the most MPs.

The monarchy costs the country something like 60p a year for every British subject... I think that's a bargain! Especially when you consider how much the president costs the US in security and other costs, and it's G W Bush for heaven's sake...

Technically, HM The Queen can (at will)
1) Dissolve Parliament, and call for an election
2) Declare war
3) Sign treaties
4) Choose the Prime minister
5) Refuse to pass into law anything created by Parliament

However in practice, the monarch never exercises authority in these areas. For example, although she technically gets to "choose" the PM, it's always the leader of the party with the most MPs.

The monarchy costs the country something like 60p a year for every British subject... I think that's a bargain! Especially when you consider how much the president costs the US in security and other costs, and it's G W Bush for heaven's sake...
And because the royalty are born into service, not elected, there is the potential that not every future king or queen would voluntarily give up so much power. What would it be like if Camilla Parker Bowles was Queen?

And because the royalty are born into service, not elected, there is the potential that not every future king or queen would voluntarily give up so much power. What would it be like if Camilla Parker Bowles was Queen?

Are you suggesting that elected officials like to give up their power? Again, look at Hitler, or Mugabe...

Camilla will never be Queen, but even if she was, she would never do anything stupid. It just wouldn't happen. Anyone who thinks that the British monarchy would ever try to abolish democracy is either paranoid, or has no understanding of the country.

What's so great about an elected head of state? George Bush is hardly corruption free, or Donald Rumsfeld, or Condi...

Canada is a good place to go because:

1. The Armed Forces just got a nice raise and a lot more funding so they are recruiting more.

2. The Army will not send you to Iraq.

3. The Goatee can stay

4. Not a violent, extremely poor or unstable government? have that in spades

5. English is one of the primary languages and you can talk to anyone.

6. Universal health care and subsidized post secondary education.

7. Well there are those wacky Mormons who try to convert everyone but that is it.

I'm not even reading the thread... Just noticed that New Zealand isn't on the list :(


Never been there, but it looks good in Xena and LOTR movies :p :D

Plus, no new language skill per-se (for me anyway) and it's probably not a big spot for terrorist...

A warning about British universities - if you apply as a foreign student, you better be rich, because they will sodomise your bank balance.

BUT if you become a British citizen, its less of a worry.

And if you can prove you have a hitherto undetected learning disability, you get a free laptop with printer and scanner, as well as cash. Nice. :D

My friends hate me. ;)

I'm pretty sure you can't just pick up and join the British, Dutch, or German Armies. There are rather strict rules regarding foreign citizens. I'm pretty sure you have to be a British citizen to join the Military, though they do allow dual citizenship. However, in order to apply for citizenship in the Netherlands you need to know like 3 languages and pass tests in each of them. Very difficult apparantly to become a citizen there, which the government has made so due to a problem with crowding in cities like Amsterdam and Rotterdam due to immigration. Germany does not offer dual citizenship unless you apply specially or were born in Germany or something like that. Once you become 18 i think you have to choose between German citizenship and your other or abandon it. There are few Militaries that accept foreign citizens outright, i know the French Foreign legion accepts all foreign citizens and grants them citizenship after completing the required years of service, which i think are 5 years. European Union members particularly are reluctant to grant foreigners any jobs whatsoever. You need a government grant to get a job in any EU country you are not a citizen of, and if you get caught in a job without a permit, the punishment is deportation and permenant banishment from all EU countries.

That's quite interesting. So, even the Police in somewhere like Tammerfors would have to take a test in Swedish. Seems a bit over the top.... makes sense for the areas where there are Swedish speakers though (and very nice for Swedish tourists and business visitors - cough cough - keep up the good work ;) )

I've always found people in Åbo quite reluctant to use their Swedish... whereas Vasa seems a lot more acceptant of Swedish language (although I've only been to Vasa once, so perhaps i arrived there on a good day). Oh well...

Surely these days it's only the people of Åland who can't speak Finnish? Although I read in the newspaper that the most "Swedish" municipality (highest percentage of Swedish speakers as mother tongue) in the world is in Finland, not Sweden. Weird huh...
Yes. They are going to change that (tests) because there will be problems in hiring enough police men in few years. IMO we spend way too much resources on Swedish. It's important only on the coastal areas.

I don't know but I think that there are a lot more Swedish speakers in Vasa than in Åbo (percentage). Österbottningen in general is a stronghold of Finland's Swedes. There are towns and communs which have more Swedish speakers than Finnish speakers (Jakobstad, Pedersöre osv). I've lived in Karleby and IMO Swedish was much more common around there than in any other place in mainland Finland.

No, there are only Swedish speaking Finns also around Helsinki. Usually they are quite old and extremely posh. But of course most of them live in Åland (the only Swedish speaking ones, not the posh ones...)

Go Australia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm pretty sure you can't just pick up and join the British, Dutch, or German Armies. There are rather strict rules regarding foreign citizens. I'm pretty sure you have to be a British citizen to join the Military, though they do allow dual citizenship.
Either a British citizen or a British national. And I'm a British national. British national can't serve in all jobs in the military, but they can serve in most.

However, in order to apply for citizenship in the Netherlands you need to know like 3 languages and pass tests in each of them. Very difficult apparantly to become a citizen there, which the government has made so due to a problem with crowding in cities like Amsterdam and Rotterdam due to immigration. Germany does not offer dual citizenship unless you apply specially or were born in Germany or something like that. Once you become 18 i think you have to choose between German citizenship and your other or abandon it. There are few Militaries that accept foreign citizens outright, i know the French Foreign legion accepts all foreign citizens and grants them citizenship after completing the required years of service, which i think are 5 years. European Union members particularly are reluctant to grant foreigners any jobs whatsoever. You need a government grant to get a job in any EU country you are not a citizen of, and if you get caught in a job without a permit, the punishment is deportation and permenant banishment from all EU countries.
Thing is, though, I'm an American, not some wacko third-world scum. Second, being a British national, I could probably get British citizenship fairly easily. I actually WAS a British citizen until the British government created this new idea of a "British national" in the 80's. And, from what I've heard, EU has open borders for any citizens of a country in Europe.

What languages do you need to know in the Netherlands, by the way?

Go Australia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't want to move to Australia because it's too hot, you have crocodiles, and I hate the accents. I don't like insects, either. Plus, Aussies sound like the British equivalent of the American southerner. "A dingo ate mah baby", and so on.

Also, it'd be annoying to deal with the cultural conflict over there, between aboriginals and everyone else.

I'd say The Netherlands. Most people speak excellent English & it's a very tolerant, educated, stable society.

Netherlands tolerant? Are we forgetting Theo van Gogh?

Pfft. What's so bad about the U.S.? I understand if you want to see the world and such, but permanently leave?

hmmm if you move to britain you'd better like rain. to rock secne isn't that big where i live, but in some places like brighton you will get a big one. by boyfriend runs the only half dencent rock club in our area, though there are a couple of 'ye oldie rock pubs'.
if you want somewhere with nice weather however move to Austraila, thats what i would like to do if only it wasnt so bloody impossible.

I'd recommend, if you want to get easy citizenship in an E.U. country, then go to Spain. They recently declared an amnesty on 700,000 illegal immigrants; they're desperate for public sector workers or something; with Spanish citizenship you can go to Britain (or anywhere else in the E.U. for that matter) for work.

I don't want to move to Australia because it's too hot, you have crocodiles, and I hate the accents. I don't like insects, either. Plus, Aussies sound like the British equivalent of the American southerner. "A dingo ate mah baby", and so on.
Right, you've just ruled out areas inhabited by about 2% of the Australian population ... but I guess it's safer for everybody else to keep harbouring those misconceptions, as we're busy enough sinking immigrants' vessels as it is ;)

Also, it'd be annoying to deal with the cultural conflict over there, between aboriginals and everyone else.
You do live in the US, don't you?

I'd go to Sweden.

The job situation might be hard, if you don't know Swedish, but the same's true for most European countries.

Not too sure about the military, but not sure how many foreign countries will take foreigners.

Education is nice... I'm hoping to study in Umeå next fall for a semester (or longer if i like it). Won't cost me a dime. Cost of living is a little higher, depending on where you live and the value of the dollar vs. krona. But even then, it's cheaper for Americans to study there than study at the absolute cheapest university here, including cost of living. Some schools have completely English classes or programs, so you could take classes without knowing any Swedish, and you can always learn that through the university when you get there.

Health care is also totally subsidized if you're a student.

Drinking age is also lower, but that goes for pretty much the entire rest of the world too (21 here... fascists...)

You could probably survive there... I've heard rumors that Swedes can speak better English than most of us in the states. I believe it too, just watch MTV.

what about Ireland, everybody likes Ireland.

Little Crime
Friendly People
English Speaking

Its got more but i'm too tired to type

what about Ireland, everybody likes Ireland.

Little Crime
Friendly People
English Speaking

Its got more but i'm too tired to type

Or, Northern Ireland! the IRA only rob banks now.

You do live in the US, don't you?
Don't deny that there's no racial conflict with aboriginals. A lot of people there are racist against them, and a lot of aboriginals are violent, and prejudiced against non-aboriginals. It's basically the same situation in America, between blacks and whites. I don't wanna deal with that bullshit.

what about Ireland, everybody likes Ireland.

Little Crime
Friendly People
English Speaking

Its got more but i'm too tired to type
My father, whose from Scotland, haha...

I currently live in America and I'm planning on moving to a new country anywhere from a year from now to three years. And I'm not sure where I should live. I'm planning on taking a tour of Europe, to get a general feel of it, but I'd still like some ideas.

Basically, what I want:
A well-paying military, that'll let me keep my goatee, or a strong-enough economy to where a person without a college degree could support themselves and still go to school.
Not a violent, extremely poor, or unstable country.
Most people there must speak English.
If they don't speak English, Spanish is preferable.
Good universities and good healthcare.
Preferably, no wacko fundie Jews, Christians, or Muslims.

Originally, I was planning on moving to Britain. My father's recommended Germany. Someone online recommended Costa Rica and it looks nice. I've also been considering France, recently, too. But reading about how they sunk the Greenpeace ship was rather disturbing.

So, now tell me: Which country should I move to and why?

Spain. Had everything you want. Not sure on the goatee part though

You could come and live in my village in northern England. Most of us speak English, although there are some who communicate through indecypherable drooling noises. We have a roman road and a black pudding throwing competition every year. One of our ducks is famous. There are plenty of large towns within driving distance...... and we do have a good-ish hospital nearby. Plus, there are four doctors in the village. Our church has a congreagtion of six and the minister is too tired to be fundamental. Its called Affetside and it's exactly half way between London and Edinburgh.

Ecuador!

Finland sounds pretty perfect for you, well, except for the well-paying military.
Agreed.

Go too the Netherlands:

Basically, what I want:
[1]A well-paying military, that'll let me keep my goatee, or a strong-enough economy to where a person without a college degree could support themselves and still go to school.
[2]Not a violent, extremely poor, or unstable country.
[3]Most people there must speak English.
[4]If they don't speak English, Spanish is preferable.
[5]Good universities and good healthcare.
[6]Preferably, no wacko fundie Jews, Christians, or Muslims.


1: we have that, yeah. Economy is a bit of the scale right now but its coming back... trust me.
2. go too a smaller town like Venlo, Vlissingen or Haarlem and you are safe, but in amsterdam its safe, sure. we are not poor or unstable eighter.
3. In holland we all speak english! and dutch...
4. Spanish? well, most Dutchies go too spain on holiday, its very popular.
5. Yep, Leiden is the university city, great schools we have. Healthcare is the best, a lot of trouble with insurance but you get what you need no problem.
6. Oh, we have wacko Muslims... Maroccans(sp?) but yuo get used too it. No jewish crazy people. we do have a lot of jehova's witnesses, but you just have too hit them with a big stick and they leave you alone.



See? we are great?

The Netherlands has to have a military.

Okay, so far I've been broken it down to these three:
Germany: Strong economy, great military.
United Kingdom: Guaranteed $350 a week, excellent military.
Netherlands: Liberal's paradise, probably a decent military.

So, my questions are:
#1. Do you need to speak German or Dutch to go to college in the Netherlands or Germany?
#2. How much does college cost in each country?
#3. How much does each country's military pay?
#4. What are Netherlands and Germany's healthcare and social welfare like?

weh ave a military, heck, we are in iraq. But our army isn't that big compared too most countries in europe. So we take our army too the jobs level, its a job.

1. you need too speak dutch, yes.
2. a lot in the netherlands...
3. Pays good, very good.
4. Excellent in my opinion. Of course, i can't compare it with the US, don't know the situation there.

Voted Ireland for the heck of it. Eh. But no, seriously, I love the Ireland and Germany countries. Go to one of those :) I have never been, though. Germany, I'd have to say a lot of Germany language is used while in Ireland, they speak engilish or have a language I haven't heard about :p

Basically, what I want:
A well-paying military, that'll let me keep my goatee, or a strong-enough economy to where a person without a college degree could support themselves and still go to school.
Not a violent, extremely poor, or unstable country.
Most people there must speak English.
If they don't speak English, Spanish is preferable.
Good universities and good healthcare.
Preferably, no wacko fundie Jews, Christians, or Muslims.

Most military do not pay that well and/or will not let you keep your goatee but look into Belgium or the Netherlands. Most European countries have a good economy but getting a job there without being a citizen of the EU may pose sum difficulties.
Most people in Europe speak English, as do many people in the Gulf States.
Spain and South America for Spanish, but many countries in South America either are poor or have unstable governments. Spain has violent attacks from ETA.
Good education and health care would appear to be Canada or Europe.
No fundie Jews, Christians, or Muslims...um...er...Antarctica?

go to England we have the best music and probly the greatest television industry in the world with most of international music and television appearing here first (though TV licence will be a pain it is worth it to get B.B.C)

If you can’t go to England id pick………..no idea

I have a graduate professor at UMSL (University of Missouri at St. Louis) that has written multiple books on International Political Economy, and each time he writes he leaves the States for the summer, goes to Belgium, and writes there. I don't know if it is the atmosphere, the accessible information, the sites, what have you, but he seems to think Belgium is Utopia, so although I originally said Britain, I officially change my vote to Belgium.

England has incredibly depressing TV, music, weather and people

I plan on moving to Greece sometime after University. :) I'll have to serve a year of military service when I get my citizenship, but that's something I've wanted to do anyway, I may even want to stay in the military there. Though I'm not sure if foreign nationals that get citizenship in Greece have to do the Military Service also.

Belgium..... Need to add Belgium, the greatest place ever... :fluffle:

Go with Canada. It's got everything you're asking for, and it's not expensive. On the goatee thing, I don't know, but if that doesn't work, just join the Mounties. Plus, as an added bonus, it's only the next country over for you. And you could just stay here for a short while until you find a good european country to live in. It's win-win. :D

Suggestion: Take the top 3 or 4 countries, throw Belgium in the mix, and rerun the poll.... One more vote for Belgium, God bless em...

I currently live in America and I'm planning on moving to a new country anywhere from a year from now to three years. And I'm not sure where I should live. I'm planning on taking a tour of Europe, to get a general feel of it, but I'd still like some ideas.

Basically, what I want:
A well-paying military, that'll let me keep my goatee, or a strong-enough economy to where a person without a college degree could support themselves and still go to school.
Not a violent, extremely poor, or unstable country.
Most people there must speak English.
If they don't speak English, Spanish is preferable.
Good universities and good healthcare.
Preferably, no wacko fundie Jews, Christians, or Muslims.

Originally, I was planning on moving to Britain. My father's recommended Germany. Someone online recommended Costa Rica and it looks nice. I've also been considering France, recently, too. But reading about how they sunk the Greenpeace ship was rather disturbing.

So, now tell me: Which country should I move to and why?

If I were to move to another country, I think I would choose either Australia or Canada, and I think either of them would meet most of your requirements.

I've also considered moving, probably after Bush bans my favorite kinds of hentai.

Don't deny that there's no racial conflict with aboriginals. A lot of people there are racist against them, and a lot of aboriginals are violent, and prejudiced against non-aboriginals. It's basically the same situation in America, between blacks and whites. I don't wanna deal with that bullshit.
Indigenous people only make up 2% of Australians. Most of these live in the areas which you stereotypically identified as indicative of Australia but in reality represent a very small part of the settled area of the country. If you live in a city, on many days you won't even come across an indigenous person (at least somebody outwardly identifiable as such).

While racial inequality (under measures such as life expectancy and wealth) is an obvious problem, racial conflict and violence are quite rare, certainly much more so than in the US and most other multi-racial societies. The vast majority of Australians would like nothing more than for the issue of racial inequality to be solved. Unfortunately, nobody seems to be able to agree on how this can be successfully achieved.

I'd like to know what your sources are for these "undeniable" facts. It sounds like you've seen Crocodile Dundee and now think that makes you an authority on life in Australia ;)

Or, Northern Ireland! the IRA only rob banks now.

and now they have said they will stop violence all together
(well they've said they will and they have already got rid of lots of arms)

"Which country should I move to and why?"

Rawanda.

Because you deserve each other.

Move to Norway or Denmark. They meet all of your qualifications, although I am not sure about the military. They both are not violent, not poor, not unstable, almost everyone speaks English (in Norway it is required for all students to learn English), they have awesome healthcare and the universities are very good, and there aren't any wacko fundies! I have been to both and I love them both. Denmark is a tad more "open" and liberal, but Norway would be very safe and comfortable.

Out of these options, I'd pick the Netherlands without a doubt. But as two previous posters have said, don't forget Belgium. I don't know much about our military, but my impression is that it's decent. Military service is more like a career here really.

As for your other requirements, Belgium (especially Flanders, the Dutch-speaking part) fits them. The university in Leuven is one of the finest in Europe, the healthcare is perhaps even better than in the Netherlands (according to my father, who is a doctor, and has worked in both countries), and a good majority of the population speak and understand English perfectly and are willing to help you in your language. Seeing that we're a trilingual (!) country, we have to be proficient in our languages.

I'll admit there's one downpoint (IMHO): the Vlaams Belang party (former Flemish Bloc, a far right-wing anti-immigration party) has a notable following, though most of their voting base consists of people who are not satisfied with the current governing parties, but don't even bother to take a closer look at Vlaams Belang's party program.
Aside from this minority, we're a tolerant people. Slightly less liberal than the Dutch in that marijana is still outlawed here, but who needs drugs when we have 200 different brands of beer?

Pfft. What's so bad about the U.S.? I understand if you want to see the world and such, but permanently leave?
Even if the reason isn't the most diligently considered, is there any downside from getting out and living in more of the world, particularly while making a concerted effort to be safe? He should go, see and do as much shit as he wants. What he decides after that, well, he'll come to it eventually.


--Re Shrub,
British tanks make "lovely tea", so that might be something to consider.

One thing you might consider is busting your ass to sock away 3 months worth of money, and then bum around Europe and just check stuff out for a while. Then pick a place to try and settle, using what's left of the money you've put away. If you're still in the American military, you might try to get into a couple of classes/schools that might give you a leg up in another nation's military.