NationStates Jolt Archive

The South American Community of Nations (Spanish: Comunidad Sudamericana de Naciones (CSN), Portuguese: Comunidade Sul-Americana de Nações (CSN)) will be a continent-wide free trade zone that will unite two existing free-trade organizations—Mercosur and the Andean Community—eliminating tariffs for non-sensitive products by 2014 and sensitive products by 2019. Complete integration between these two trade blocs is expected by 2007.


Dignitaries attend the signing of the Cuzco Declaration
South American leaders sign the Cuzco DeclarationAt the Third South American Summit, on 8 December 2004, presidents or representatives from twelve South American nations signed the Cuzco Declaration, a two-page statement of intent, announcing the foundation of the South American Community. Panama attended the signing ceremony as observer.

Leaders announced their intention to model the new community after the European Union, including a common currency, parliament, and passport. According to Allan Wagner, Secretary General of the Andean Community, a complete union like that of the EU should be possible by 2019.

The mechanics of the new entity should come out at the First SACN Summit, to be held in Brazil, in March of 2005. A constitution is also expected to be drafted in 2005. The Second Summit will be held in Bolivia. No new institutions will be created in the first phase, so as not to increase bureaucracy, and the community will use the existing institutions belonging to the previous trade blocs.


QUOTE:
We are here to make Simón Bolívar's dream real. [...] Sooner, rather than later, we shall have a single currency, a single passport... Sooner, rather than later, we shall have a parliament with directly elected representatives for this new nation that we are creating today. — Peruvian President Alejandro Toledo, 8 December 2004.

Step by step CAN and Mercosur will converge becoming the South American Community, but gradually disappearing at the same time. But in spite of the haste there’s no rush, because we could end with an empty declaration. [...] My idea is that in a few months time CAN should be known as South American Community-CAN and Mercosur, South American Community MS, so we have time to get in touch with the new initials. —Former Argentine president Eduardo Duhalde, president of the Mercosur Representatives Committee.

the question is, do you support this union?, Will a new United States of South America stop the USA calling us their backyard? Will we have a voice in world affairs at long last? And will the developed world allow a new super power to join the list?
Please post your thoughts.

This means we will have to support Argentina's ruined economy. I consider that there should be economic standards to be met by all the states concerned before such an agreementr is made.

I am curious though as to how March 2005 can be in the future in July of 2005.

As far as I was aware this program has been put on indefinite hold, due to political problems in the Andean nations and a lack of political will from the Mercosur nations.

Would it be good? In the future maybe, but at the moment there are too many discrepencies in development in the region for this to work.

It sound like an excellent idea to me.
In all these deals there are winners and losers. In any country one prosperous area will support rural maybe mountainous regions. In the EU the richer nations support the poorer and in the US the wealthy states support the poorer states.
But with proper investment and trade deals the gap between rich and poor shrinks and everyone prospers.
Wars are less likely and destablisation by foreign goverments (you know who i mean) is less likely.

Europe is better for the EU. With all it's failings I truely believe it has stopped another world war.

The EU has not prevented another world war. The EU is nothing more than a vehicle for French domination of the continent, with a duplicitous Germany giving them a helping hand.

This means we will have to support Argentina's ruined economy. I consider that there should be economic standards to be met by all the states concerned before such an agreementr is made. Firts of all Argentina is slowly recovering and it's starting by paying its external debt. they've made a lot of progress; despite everything, Argentina is one of the largest countries in South America in terms of economic potential and natural resources, it is a net energy exporter.

I am curious though as to how March 2005 can be in the future in July of 2005.

Obviously i got this article from the web and it's also the most recent i could find, but it's about how the SCN can be formed, before it actually was signed

As far as I was aware this program has been put on indefinite hold, due to political problems in the Andean nations and a lack of political will from the Mercosur nations. Yes, something was put on hold but it wasn't this, it was the Free Trade Agreement talks with the USA because of the coup in Ecuador, however the next summit on Bolivia is still going ahead even though there is no date for it yet, but some political analysts are speculating that it could happen sometime in August or September especially because of Argentina's success in debt negotiations with the IMF.

Would it be good? In the future maybe, but at the moment there are too many discrepencies in development in the region for this to work.. The EU took 40 years to create this, at that time Europe was worse off than we are today, first they were all war torn countries, the Iron Courtain was starting to form and it only stated with three very small countries, the Benelux Countries were the ones to start the EU only as an organisation for Steel exporting countries. As for discrepancies, they exist but nothing that i spresent is too hard to be solved, First Colombia's guerrillas are slowly dissappearing, Venezuela's annual growth rate is one of the highest in the region and Chavez is very popular, you hear in the news about political instability in Venezuela, the truth is that that instability is being fumded by the USA, they've even called venezuela a "negative presence in the region", why? because Chavez is looking for new trade partners like China and India so as to stop Venezuela's over dependance on the USA, and the best thing is that it's working. Why would the call venezuela a negative force when it's exporting very cheap oil to poor caribbean islands? As for Uruguay, yes economic growth has slowed, but that's because of the former govenrment, the new president promises a lot more things that favour the CSN, no wonder he won the elections. Peru is now starting to grow new products on its desert, yes on the desert. it's being done through special irrigation techniques, it's been so successful that in 2000 the desert only produced $5m today it stands at $50m and it's growing at a 15% rate (if you don't believe read the economist) Despite political clashes in Brazil, it's the only builder of warfare and defence equinpment in South America, and they're pioneers in Aircraft building, so much so that china has signed a contract with Brazil to exchange aircraft for ships and other maritime vehicles. Ecuador is slowly recovirng and Bolivia has a new president who has called for new elections which will substantially ease the situation, Chile as usual is he most competitive countryin the region and Paraguay is stable enough, so i don't see why these "discrepancies" should pose a threat to the Union. :cool:

The EU has not prevented another world war. The EU is nothing more than a vehicle for French domination of the continent, with a duplicitous Germany giving them a helping hand.
:rolleyes:

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I say "Go for it!". You have a whole world to compete with, you'll need all the help you can get. So collaborate wherever possible.

The EU has not prevented another world war. The EU is nothing more than a vehicle for French domination of the continent, with a duplicitous Germany giving them a helping hand.

Well we actually will never know, because that war never happened. Now though, with the EU, there will not be another world war between the nations of Europe. They may have squabbles, but they are a trade bloc, a currency bloc, and a political bloc, that effectively prevents another European world war.

And Simon Bolivar has waited 200 years for this, so let's get SA together. A strong power in SA would prevent the crap the US has pulled from happening again, and would stabilize a somewhat unstable political and economic situation. It might also help accelerate the development of SA, as the countries could easily aid each other, strengthening the whole and minimizing individual weaknesses and losses. I think it's a great idea, and I hope the South Americans support it.

Shortly after gaining independence from Spain much of South America attempted to form a democratic confederacy. It lasted for about eleven years, but was rifled with corruption. Resource conflicts and populist leaders eventually tore the union apart.

Just though I’d share what happened before.

Shortly after gaining independence from Spain much of South America attempted to form a democratic confederacy. It lasted for about eleven years, but was rifled with corruption. Resource conflicts and populist leaders eventually tore the union apart.
There was some of that. One can't forget the role of the US pressing behind stage to keep countries from committing seriously.

However, the biggest obstacle was getting everybody from this immense continent together in the same place at the same time. Communications and transportation were just a nightmare.

Shouldn't be so hard now.

There was some of that. One can't forget the role of the US pressing behind stage to keep countries from committing seriously.

I’m sure the US, which was still a fledgling republic at the time, was very involved. :rolleyes:

Jackson was too busy oppressing the Cherokee to care to much about the goings on of South America.

I’m sure the US, which was still a fledgling republic at the time, was very involved. :rolleyes:

Jackson was too busy oppressing the Cherokee to care to much about the goings on of South America.
Not so fledgling anymore. We are talking 1820s here now, not 1790s. The US grew very fast and by this time they had acquired Louisiana, putting them next to Mexico, which many people eyed as the natural way to expand; they had also fought England and were well in their way to become an hemispherical power. Mexico was part of this union and, if successful, would have made things much harder for the US.

They also had trade and economic interests and, of course, the interest of seeing European powers out of America.

You should give your country's ambition more credit. Do you think them incapable of having their fingers in more than one pie?

Not so fledgling anymore. We are talking 1820s here now, not 1790s. The US grew very fast and by this time they had acquired Louisiana, putting them next to Mexico, which many people eyed as the natural way to expand; they had also fought England and were well in their way to become an hemispherical power. Mexico was part of this union and, if successful, would have made things much harder for the US.

They also had trade and economic interests and, of course, the interest of seeing European powers out of America.

You should give your country's ambition more credit. Do you think them incapable of having their fingers in more than one pie?

The country? No. Jackson?

...Andrew Jackson was the worst US President. Ever. As much as I hate Bush, as much as I think Clinton was a moron, Andrew Jackson was the WORST President we've ever had.

Almost as bad as Andrew Burr would have been.

Not so fledgling anymore. We are talking 1820s here now, not 1790s. The US grew very fast and by this time they had acquired Louisiana, putting them next to Mexico, which many people eyed as the natural way to expand; they had also fought England and were well in their way to become an hemispherical power. Mexico was part of this union and, if successful, would have made things much harder for the US.

Mexico wasn’t part of the union. The countries liberated by the armies of Simon Bolivar and San Martin were part of that union. Also, the Monroe doctrine had not been adopted yet.

Mexico wasn’t part of the union. The countries liberated by the armies of Simon Bolivar and San Martin were part of that union.
Not only those. Central America and Mexico were also invited to form part of it. All former Spanish colonies were.

You can read the invitation here (Spanish): http://www.simon-bolivar.org/bolivar/c_a_de_panama.html#Convocatoria%20del%20Congreso%20de%20Panam%E1%20-

Not only those. Central America and Mexico were also invited to form part of it. All former Spanish colonies were.

You can read the invitation here (Spanish): http://www.simon-bolivar.org/bolivar/c_a_de_panama.html#Convocatoria%20del%20Congreso%20de%20Panam%E1%20-

Yeah, but the point is, only those countries liberated by Bolivar and San Martin were ever part of the confederacy.

Yeah, but the point is, only those countries liberated by Bolivar and San Martin were ever part of the confederacy.
There was no union. Beyond naming a Congress, sending delegates and having a few meetings over the years, nothing came out. Only Colombia signed the treaties, no other country did.

A confederacy was never ratified. Did you read the link I sent? And whoever mention the Monroe doctrine? Monroe simply verbalized what had been policy for years, anyway.

Brazil and Argentina [in my honest opinion] are the next Superpowers of the world. If those two countries unite [and settle their big differences], they will make the US and Russia look like Novices. Brazil and Argentina have the resources and economy. All they need is to simply shake and make up.

There was no union. Beyond naming a Congress, sending delegates and having a few meetings over the years, nothing came out. Only Colombia signed the treaties, no other country did.

A confederacy was never ratified. Did you read the link I sent? And whoever mention the Monroe doctrine? Monroe simply verbalized what had been policy for years, anyway.

Sounds like the early years of American colonial independence…

Anyway, good luck to the South Americans, but I doubt that much will come from it. There is too much corruption in South American politics.

Sounds like the early years of American colonial independence…

Anyway, good luck to the South Americans, but I doubt that much will come from it. There is too much corruption in South American politics.Yes, there was corruption is South America because it was all funded by American Oligarchs, they gave money to presidents so they could live Hollywood lifestyles, but those who refused got killed (like Salvador Allende, killed by the CIA and american intervention, of course they wanted to put Pinochet in power, does Pinochet sound familiar to you? he killed 1000s), it still happens today, Chavez is fast approaching the axis of evil (according to Bush) but why?, well he uses oil money to feed the hungry, educate the ignorant, house the homeless you name it. Why is colombia the best Amrican Ally in the Western Hemisphere after Canada? because Uribe is an oligarch himself who is forgiving all the attrocities committed by Right Wing paramilitaries, all this is favoured by the USA and Bush. Why was Colombia the only place where Condolezza Rice was welcomed with open arms? Because Uribe is the Blair of South America, why did she not have any success in other countries? Because American influence is rapidly dissappearing, Bush was to busy with Iraq to deal with South America, and while his eyes were somewhere else, most of South America became a socialist feeding ground which of course is ending all the corruption that the USA caused for so many decades, in fact the US owned us for most of the 20th century, we are slowly claiming our re-independence again!

... the question is, do you support this union?, Will a new United States of South America stop the USA calling us their backyard? Will we have a voice in world affairs at long last? And will the developed world allow a new super power to join the list?
Please post your thoughts.
I support it, I hate that some here in the US call SA "our backyard," you will have a louder voice in world affairs, and the "developed world" will have no other option than to "allow" you to join whatever you desire.

As I have said in other posts, this is just one more sign that there is a logical, historic progression in the development of political entities: family to clan, clan to tribe, tribe to city-state, city-state to nation, nation to region, and ( hopefully in the not too distant future ), region to planet.

I support it, I hate that some here in the US call SA "our backyard," you will have a louder voice in world affairs, and the "developed world" will have no other option than to "allow" you to join whatever you desire.

As I have said in other posts, this is just one more sign that there is a logical, historic progression in the development of political entities: family to clan, clan to tribe, tribe to city-state, city-state to nation, nation to region, and ( hopefully in the not too distant future ), region to planet.At least i see some common sense. thank you

Gran Colombia was a failure, but things were different then. The Andes mountains provided a much greater boundry than they do today, and the people had a lot of differences. In South America many groups of people had to be united. In the US it was one group of people who pushed west and simply killed everyone in their way, much more efficient.

Will it work? Can't say. South American politics has a lot of corruption and problems, but that's nothing new, it's been a problem for every nation. I hope this succeeds and South America gains more world influence, it's been in the background for a very long time.

At least i see some common sense. thank you
You're most welcome. :)

Brazil and Argentina [in my honest opinion] are the next Superpowers of the world. If those two countries unite [and settle their big differences], they will make the US and Russia look like Novices. Brazil and Argentina have the resources and economy. All they need is to simply shake and make up.

I disagree in regards to Argentina. They are in no way in any position to become a superpower. They would only be able to do that if the Mercosur merge into one. Their economy is recovering only because they didn’t pay the full amount of their external debt. Is easy to ask for loans, give the money to the industries to have a productivity increase and then don’t pay the loan back. The problem is that no one will want to invest in Argentina in a long time.
I honestly think that the next superpower is China. With a domestic market of 1300 millions of people they can make very cheap products as their fixed cost per product is almost non existent. They will become richer every passing year.

[QUOTE=Skyrm]I disagree in regards to Argentina. They are in no way in any position to become a superpower. They would only be able to do that if the Mercosur merge into one. [QUOTE] And also if they merge with the Andean Community, i see a future in that. there is also an advantage in SA, most people are young and natural increase doesn't seem to be falling, which means that in the future there could be a domestic market half the size of China's, today there are 370million people living in SA so it is not difficult for it to increase to 500m or more, there more people there are, the more productivity there will be.