NationStates Jolt Archive

Where did this come from?

"The Islamic faith broadly divides civilization into two camps - Dar al-Islam, the land of the believers (where it is permissible to interact with society and to send children to schools because they are subject to Shari’a or Islamic law), and Dar al-Kufr, the land of infidels (where assimilation is forbidden and devout Muslims are required to “keep their distance from the infidels,” and even wage jihad against their adopted country). Since the Qua'ran comes after the Torah and the Bible (historically and chronologically), it is the final and therefore perfect manifesto of God's will.

"It is the latter belief that is prevailing in the slums and tenements of Europe. It is based, in part, on the view that Muslims cannot practice true Islam in a secular environment. This belief translates into decrees (fatwas) from European imams prohibiting the giving of greetings to infidels on their religious holidays, encouraging Muslim parents to remove their children from secular European public schools and prohibiting Muslim service in the armies and police of their newly adopted lands. Safety, security and survival can only be found within the greater Muslim "community" (ummah). This religious imperative has led to widespread Muslim alienation and poverty throughout Europe. It has also led to the growth of Islamic radicalism.

"This high degree of Islamic observance (reflecting itself in the cultural alienation of European Muslim society) when combined with the massive influx of millions of Arab Muslims into Christian Europe, represent the first significant challenge to European Christendom in centuries. Immigration has accounted for some 70% of Europe's general population growth over the past five years, and the majority of that immigration has been Muslim.

"According to a 2002 report by the World Jewish Congress, the Muslim population in Europe now ranges anywhere from twelve to twenty million persons (depending upon whether surveys include estimates on illegal immigration) or around five percent (5%) of the population - which means there are more Muslims in Europe than there are Norwegians, Swedes, Danes, Greeks, Czechs, Scots, Irish, Welsh, Luxembourgers and Hungarians. Once upon a time, the countries that comprise the European Union constituted fourteen percent (14%) of the world’s population. Today, that figure is down to six percent (6%) and projections show that by 2050 (according to a UN forecast) it will be just over four percent (4%) all brought about by a gradual lowering of the non-Muslim birthrate. There has not been such a sustained population reduction in Europe since the Black Death ravaged the continent in the 14th century. (5) If non-Muslims decide to flee the coming Islamic order, which is a distinct possibility, the continent could have a Muslim majority within decades."

This is something about which I have wondered for some time.

I didn't realize Islam was an issue for the Japanese.

I didn't realize Islam was an issue for the Japanese.

Oh just you wait! Plans are in order, the necessary steps have nearly been taken and .... hey ... *mmmf* .... get outta my *mmf* .... where are you taking me?! ..... *ouch* ... *BLAM!*


...

(5) If non-Muslims decide to flee the coming Islamic order, which is a distinct possibility, the continent could have a Muslim majority within decades."
If Europe has a muslim majority in decades then god must really be on their side so it must be a good thing then, right?

I will point out that being muslim isn't a genetic condition. Just because your parents are muslim doesn't mean you will be. I'll also point out that new immigrants usually always have higher birth rates than the average population when they move to developed countries. That's how the Irish took over North America and drove out the Anglo-Saxons, prior to their being driven out by the Italians.

If Europe has a muslim majority in decades then god must really be on their side so it must be a good thing then, right?

I will point out that being muslim isn't a genetic condition. Just because your parents are muslim doesn't mean you will be. I'll also point out that new immigrants usually always have higher birth rates than the average population when they move to developed countries. That's how the Irish took over North America and drove out the Anglo-Saxons, prior to their being driven out by the Italians.

Except it's a known scientific fact that Western Europeans are now the least fertile males in the world, and each generation is becoming less fertile as time goes on.

An English man today is just half as fertile as his grandfather was!

Oh and since God doesn't exist, it's just another symptom of the human capacity to spread stupid ideas.

Except it's a known scientific fact that Western Europeans are now the least fertile males in the world, and each generation is becoming less fertile as time goes on.

Is this about sperm counts? I'm afraid there has been some confusion in the popular press about this. You see, when people first started counting sperm, they would count everything that wriggled. Then, as methods improved, scientists that most sperm was incapable of fertilizing an egg and actually served other purposes such as blazing a chemical trail to help fertilizing sperm or just hanging around to block another guy's sperm. Some people saw these results and thought fertility had gone down, but nothing had actually changed. Scientists just knew more about human sperm.

And even if there is some environmental factor that is reducing fertility in Europe, surely it would effect everyone there once they've had a chance to absorb enough of whatever it is?

I still want to know what this has to do with Japan. I thought they were Shintoist or Taoist or plain ol' secular types over there.

I still want to know what this has to do with Japan. I thought they were Shintoist or Taoist or plain ol' secular types over there.
Isn't Unified Japan a poster's name?

Isn't Unified Japan a poster's name?

Oh. I hadn't encountered an NS poster by that name.

That would explain a few things.

My bad.

Isn't Unified Japan a poster's name?
Yes.

Sorry, Eutrusca. Let me bump the thread for you.

I'm liberal but I am very concerned about Muslim immigration. This is because I want Europe to be secular and liberal. I don't want any conservative Muslim parties appearing.

The Islamic faith broadly divides civilization into two camps - Dar al-Islam, the land of the believers (where it is permissible to interact with society and to send children to schools because they are subject to Shari’a or Islamic law), and Dar al-Kufr, the land of infidels (where assimilation is forbidden and devout Muslims are required to “keep their distance from the infidels,” and even wage jihad against their adopted country). Since the Qua'ran comes after the Torah and the Bible (historically and chronologically), it is the final and therefore perfect manifesto of God's will.

That comes from the Qua'ran, Eutrusca. I got one years ago when my city's major mosque opened. Really did a good job of peeling back the wool.

It is the latter belief that is prevailing in the slums and tenements of Europe. It is based, in part, on the view that Muslims cannot practice true Islam in a secular environment. This belief translates into decrees (fatwas) from European imams prohibiting the giving of greetings to infidels on their religious holidays, encouraging Muslim parents to remove their children from secular European public schools and prohibiting Muslim service in the armies and police of their newly adopted lands. Safety, security and survival can only be found within the greater Muslim "community" (ummah). This religious imperative has led to widespread Muslim alienation and poverty throughout Europe. It has also led to the growth of Islamic radicalism.

This comes from observation of the rise of organisations such as the Muslim Council of Britain and what news we get of the activities of the imans in Europe, and from statements made against said imans by the few people with the balls to speak out against them. Unfortunately these people always have to be Muslims themselves (such as one particular brave individual in the House of Lords), because anyone else who speaks up finds themselves out of a job pretty quickly.

This high degree of Islamic observance (reflecting itself in the cultural alienation of European Muslim society) when combined with the massive influx of millions of Arab Muslims into Christian Europe, represent the first significant challenge to European Christendom in centuries. Immigration has accounted for some 70% of Europe's general population growth over the past five years, and the majority of that immigration has been Muslim.

This comes from hard facts and figures. However, I should point out that I was probably being a little underhanded playing on the whole Christian thing there (I myself don't subscribe to any established religion). It was maybe slightly innacurate to refer to these (illegal) Muslim immigrants as being predominantly Arab--a great many are Turkish or Pakistani.

According to a 2002 report by the World Jewish Congress, the Muslim population in Europe now ranges anywhere from twelve to twenty million persons (depending upon whether surveys include estimates on illegal immigration) or around five percent (5%) of the population - which means there are more Muslims in Europe than there are Norwegians, Swedes, Danes, Greeks, Czechs, Scots, Irish, Welsh, Luxembourgers and Hungarians.

This, rather obviously, comes from the World Jewish Congress, and my knowledge of what European countries' populations are. ...After I've looked them up. :p

Once upon a time, the countries that comprise the European Union constituted fourteen percent (14%) of the world’s population. Today, that figure is down to six percent (6%) and projections show that by 2050 (according to a UN forecast) it will be just over four percent (4%) all brought about by a gradual lowering of the non-Muslim birthrate. There has not been such a sustained population reduction in Europe since the Black Death ravaged the continent in the 14th century. If non-Muslims decide to flee the coming Islamic order, which is a distinct possibility, the continent could have a Muslim majority within decades.

This comes from other people's analysis of the maths (which, if not beyond me, is something I hate).

This is something about which I have wondered for some time.

Well, I only made the post a couple hours (if that) ago. But it's good to know that someone's actually taking the time to think about the issues.

I still want to know what this has to do with Japan. I thought they were Shintoist or Taoist or plain ol' secular types over there.

It's all a part of a secret hypernationalist Black Dragon Society plot. But keep it to yourself, okay?

<snip>It's all a part of a secret hypernationalist Black Dragon Society plot. But keep it to yourself, okay?
We in the Illuminati would crush your puny Black Dragon Society plot if it weren't already all a part of Our Master Plan... bwahahahaha! :eek: :D

Is this about sperm counts? I'm afraid there has been some confusion in the popular press about this. You see, when people first started counting sperm, they would count everything that wriggled. Then, as methods improved, scientists that most sperm was incapable of fertilizing an egg and actually served other purposes such as blazing a chemical trail to help fertilizing sperm or just hanging around to block another guy's sperm. Some people saw these results and thought fertility had gone down, but nothing had actually changed. Scientists just knew more about human sperm.

And even if there is some environmental factor that is reducing fertility in Europe, surely it would effect everyone there once they've had a chance to absorb enough of whatever it is?

While this is true, it's mostly the White Male (In all industrialised nations) who is loosing sperm fertility.

This is because most non-whites only came to the cities (or even the western countries) in the last few generations. As a consequence, there has been little to no loss in fertility detected in newcomer populations, so far.

Thus, Muslim immigrants will tend to be more fertile than the indiginous population.

More important however is social outlook, it's a simple plain fact that Western societies have a tendancy to want less children in order to have more affluence, and this phenomena is simply not seen on the same scale in immigrant populations.

This is how poverty and substandard living comes back to bite the First World in the ass. People ask "why should we care about poverty in Africa?" or "how does genocide in [X] have anything to do with me?". And then they complain when third world refugees and immigrants begin arriving in their countries by the hundreds of thousands.

So people wondering what the deal is have really already answered their own questions. If things like global income and political stability were more egalitarian, people around the world wouldn't be fleeing horrific living conditions and trying to get to the West. After all it's not like most people enjoy packing up and leaving their homelands to go live in an alien society. They do it because life is crappy where they're from.

Global disparities and immigration go hand in hand. And it really is impossible in this case if you're a Westerner to have your cake and eat it too.

"The Islamic faith broadly divides civilization into two camps - Dar al-Islam, the land of the believers (where it is permissible to interact with society and to send children to schools because they are subject to Shari’a or Islamic law), and Dar al-Kufr, the land of infidels (where assimilation is forbidden and devout Muslims are required to “keep their distance from the infidels,” and even wage jihad against their adopted country).


It is actually Dar-ul-harb.

The actual meanings of Dar-ul-islam and Dar-ul-harb are very significant.

Dar-ul-islam, meaning where ever muslims are majority, is considered land of peace and dar-ul-harb is land of perpetual strife. And it is said that there will be strife there until Islam is spread there.

Hence, a pan-islamist is particularly virulent against Israel, it being a dar-ul-harb right smack in the middle of dar-ul-islam ( a reversal of sorts :D )

Other random factoids: a non-muslim can live in a muslim land ONLY as a dhimmi. Look up the concept of dhimmitude.

A muslim in a non-muslim land is actually encouraged to follow the law of the land. But this is only until a jihad is declared upon which a muslim is under no obligation to the laws of land in which he resides.

I'm liberal but I am very concerned about Muslim immigration. This is because I want Europe to be secular and liberal. I don't want any conservative Muslim parties appearing.

O, I'm sorry if another school of thought penetrating your monlithic moral paradice scares you so much. I, too, am liberal (in some respects), but I would like all points of view to have a voice, including those I don't agree with.

Also, liberal and secular don't go hand in hand.

Just because you don't want God in your neck of the woods is no reason to be upset about "brownie" moving in. I think it's a good thing, when proportions become more even

I'm liberal but I am very concerned about Muslim immigration. This is because I want Europe to be secular and liberal. I don't want any conservative Muslim parties appearing.

Don't you understand that what you want is not what the Muslims want?

TELEGRAM
Send on of those if you want to talk to someone specific.

TELEGRAM
Send on of those if you want to talk to someone specific.

Now that I have had my eardrums blown out by your nonsensical hollering...some of us are actually interested in this discussion. If you don't like it, change the channel.

"Nonsensical"? Telling someone to use a telegram to ask a person a question is nonsensical?

Why don't YOU telegram Celtlund your question ?

Oh wait..

Why don't YOU telegram Celtlund your question ?

Oh wait..

:D

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