NationStates Jolt Archive


Do we need to regulate religion in the UK?

Carthage and Troy
13-07-2005, 16:33
The recent bombings in London were a shock to many at first. But having analyzed our contemporary culture, it now seems inevitable that such events would eventually happen, and continue to happen in the future. It came as no surprise that the bombers that perpetrated thses acts turned out to be home-grown Brits.

The UK has long given Asylum to Religious Fundamentalists that have been persecuted in their own countries for inciting hate. We welcome these extremists with open arms and allowed them to spread their message to our own youth with no restrictions whatsoever. Now that we have witnessed the terrible folly in our ways, how can we correct the problem?
Holy Hellenic Empire
13-07-2005, 16:38
Tbh I find that Atheists and Muslims have set up a kind of informal alliance. They both train their guns on Christianity, because they both have a common goal. Atheistic Hypocrisy knows no bounds.
Waveny
13-07-2005, 16:43
Tbh I find that Atheists and Muslims have set up a kind of informal alliance. They both train their guns on Christianity, because they both have a common goal. Atheistic Hypocrisy knows no bounds.

Maybe if their little "informal alliance" works the world will be a better place.
New Sans
13-07-2005, 16:44
The recent bombings in London were a shock to many at first. But having analyzed our contemporary culture, it now seems inevitable that such events would eventually happen, and continue to happen in the future. It came as no surprise that the bombers that perpetrated thses acts turned out to be home-grown Brits.

The UK has long given Asylum to Religious Fundamentalists that have been persecuted in their own countries for inciting hate. We welcome these extremists with open arms and allowed them to spread their message to our own youth with no restrictions whatsoever. Now that we have witnessed the terrible folly in our ways, how can we correct the problem?

I'm assuming the religious fundamentalists are in the minority here, becuase restricting all of a relgion because of a few nutjobs will just allienate those who aren't fundamentalits from you.
Holy Hellenic Empire
13-07-2005, 16:45
Maybe if their little "informal alliance" works the world will be a better place.

True, the beauty and peace of the noble Quran is clearly expressed in these verses:

MURDER:

Tabari IX:69 “Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us.”
Tabari VIII:141 “The battle cry of the Companions of the Messenger of Allah that night was: ‘Kill! Kill! Kill!’”
Bukhari:V5B59N512 “The Prophet had their men killed, their woman and children taken captive.”
Ishaq:489 “Do the bastards think that we are not their equal in fighting? We are men who think that there is no shame in killing.”
Qur’an 2:191 “And kill them wherever you find and catch them. Drive them out from where they have turned you out; for Al-Fitnah (polytheism, disbelief, oppression) is worse than slaughter.”
Qur’an 33:60 “Truly, if the Hypocrites stir up sedition, if the agitators in the City do not desist, We shall urge you to go against them and set you over them. Then they will not be able to stay as your neighbors for any length of time. They shall have a curse on them. Whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy—a fierce slaughter—murdered, a horrible murdering.”
Bukhari:V4B52N270 “Allah’s Messenger said, ‘Who is ready to kill Ashraf? He has said injurious things about Allah and His Apostle.’ Maslama got up saying, ‘Would you like me to kill him?’ The Prophet proclaimed, ‘Yes.’ Maslama said, ‘Then allow me to lie so that I will be able to deceive him.’ Muhammad said, ‘You may do so.’”
Ishaq:368 “Ka’b’s body was left prostrate [humbled in submission]. After his fall, all of the Nadir Jews were brought low. Sword in hand we cut him down. By Muhammad’s order we were sent secretly by night. Brother killing brother. We lured him to his death with guile [cunning or deviousness]. Traveling by night, bold as lions, we went into his home. We made him taste death with our deadly swords. We sought victory for the religion of the Prophet.”
Tabari VII:97/Ishaq:368 “We carried Ka’b’s head and brought it to Muhammad during the night. We saluted him as he stood praying and told him that we had slain Allah’s enemy. When he came out to us we cast Ashraf’s head before his feet. The Prophet praised Allah that the poet had been assassinated and complimented us on the good work we had done in Allah’s Cause. Our attack upon Allah’s enemy cast terror among the Jews, and there was no Jew in Medina who did not fear for his life.’”
Tabari VII:97 “The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, ‘Kill any Jew who falls under your power.’”
Ishaq:369 “Thereupon Mas’ud leapt upon Sunayna, one of the Jewish merchants with whom his family had social and commercial relations and killed him. The Muslim’s brother complained, saying, ‘Why did you kill him? You have much fat in you belly from his charity.’ Mas’ud answered, ‘By Allah, had Muhammad ordered me to murder you, my brother, I would have cut off your head.’ Wherein the brother said, ‘Any religion that can bring you to this is indeed wonderful!’ And he accepted Islam.”
Bukhari:V1B1N6 “Just issue orders to kill every Jew in the country.”
Ishaq: 676 “‘You obey a stranger who encourages you to murder for booty. You are greedy men. Is there no honor among you?’ Upon hearing those lines Muhammad said, ‘Will no one rid me of this woman?’ Umayr, a zealous Muslim, decided to execute the Prophet’s wishes. That very night he crept into the writer’s home while she lay sleeping surrounded by her young children. There was one at her breast. Umayr removed the suckling babe and then plunged his sword into the poet. The next morning in the mosque, Muhammad, who was aware of the assassination, said, ‘You have helped Allah and His Apostle.’ Umayr said. ‘She had five sons; should I feel guilty?’ ‘No,’ the Prophet answered. ‘Killing her was as meaningless as two goats butting heads.’”
Bukhari:V1B11N626 “The Prophet said, ‘No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr. If they knew the reward they would come to (the mosque) even if they had to crawl. I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes.’”
Tabari VIII:178/Ishaq:550 “Muhammad ordered that certain men should be assassinated even if they were found behind the curtains of the Ka’aba. Among them was Abdallah bin Sa’d [the Qur’an’s one and only scribe]. The reason that Allah’s Messenger ordered that he should be slain was because he had become a Muslim and used to write down Qur’an Revelation. Then he apostatized [rejected Islam].”
Tabari VIII:179 “Abdallah bin Sa’d fled to Uthman, his brother, who after hiding him, finally surrendered him to the Prophet. Uthman asked for clemency. Muhammad did not respond, remaining silent for a long time. Muhammad explained, ‘By Allah, I kept silent so that one of you might go up to him and cut off his head!’ One of the Ansar said, ‘Why didn’t you give me a sign?’ Allah’s Apostle replied, ‘A prophet does not kill by pointing.’”
Tabari VIII:179/Ishaq:550 “Among those who Muhammad ordered killed was Abdallah bin Khatal. The Messenger ordered him to be slain because while he was a Muslim, Muhammad had sent him to collect the zakat tax with an Ansar and a slave of his.... His girls used to sing a satire about Muhammad so the Prophet ordered that they should be killed along with Abdullah. He was killed by Sa’id and Abu Barzah. The two shared in his blood. One of the singing girls was killed quickly but the other fled. So Umar caused his horse to trample the one who fled, killing her.”
Ishaq:551 “Another victim was Huwayrith. He used to insult Muhammad in Mecca. Huwayrith was put to death by Ali. The Messenger ordered Miqyas’ assassination only because he had killed an Ansar who had killed his brother by mistake and then became a renegade by rejecting Islam.”
Tabari VIII:180 “Also among those eliminated were Ikrimah bin Abu Jahl and Sarah, a slave of one of Abd Muttalib’s sons. She taunted Muhammad while he was in Mecca.”
Tabari VIII:181 “The Messenger ordered six men and four women to be assassinated. One of these women was Hind, who swore allegiance and became a Muslim.”
Bukhari:V4B52N281 “They took Khubaib to Mecca after the battle of Badr. He had killed Harith, a Meccan nobleman. The Quraysh gathered to kill him in retribution.… Khubaib wanted to offer two Rakat (prayers). They allowed this and he said, ‘O Allah, kill them all with no exception.’ He then recited the poetic verse: ‘I’m being martyred as a Muslim. I do not mind how I am killed in Allah’s Cause. For my killing is for Allah’s Sake. If Allah wishes, He will bless the amputated parts of my torn body.’ Then the son of Harith [the man Khubaib had murdered] killed him.”
Ishaq:597 “When the Apostle returned to Medina after his raid on Ta’if, word spread that he had killed some of the men who had satirized and insulted him. The poets who were left spread in all directions.”
Tabari IX:76 “Malik has reported to me that you were the first from Himyar to embrace Islam and that you have killed infidels, so rejoice at your good fortune.”
Tabari IX:121 “When it was feasible for me, I struck him with my sword and killed him. Then I departed, leaving his women to throw themselves at him. When I returned to the Prophet, he asked, ‘Is your mission accomplished?’ ‘Yes. I have killed him.’”
Ishaq:308/Tabari VII:65 “When the Apostle was in Safra, Nadr was assassinated. When Muhammad reached Irq al-Zabyah he killed Uqbah. When the Prophet ordered him to be killed, Uqbah said, ‘Who will look after my children, Muhammad?’ “Hellfire,’ the Apostle replied, and he was killed.”
Tabari VII:85 “Muhammad killed many Quraysh polytheists at Badr.”
Tabari VII:99 “In this year, the killing of Abu Rafi the Jew took place. The Messenger sent some Ansar under the command of Abd Allah and Abd Allah against the Jew. Abu Rafi used to injure and wrong the Prophet.... Abd Allah said to the others, ‘Stay where you are, and I will go and ingratiate myself with the doorkeeper to gain entrance.’”
Tabari VII:100 “Every time I opened a door, I shut it behind me from the inside, saying to myself, ‘If they become aware, they will not have time to stop me from killing him.’ When I reached Rafi, he was in a dark room with his family. As I did not know where he was in the room, I said, ‘O Abu Rafi.’ When he replied, I proceeded toward the voice and gave him a blow with my sword. He shouted and I came back, pretending to be a helper. I said, ‘O Abu,’ changing the tone of my voice. He asked me, ‘I don’t know who came to strike me with his sword.’ Then I drove my sword into his belly and pushed it forcibly till it touched the bone. I hit him again and covered him with wounds, but I could not kill him, so I thrust the point of my sword into his stomach until it came out through his back. At that, I knew that I had killed him [in front of his wife and children]. I came out, filled with puzzlement, and went towards a ladder in order to get down but I fell into a moonlit night and sprained my foot. I bound it with my turban and moved on. I came to my companions and said, ‘By Allah, I will not leave till I hear the wailing of their women.’ So, I did not move till I heard them crying for the Jewish merchant. I said, ‘Deliverance! Allah has killed Abu Rafi.’ I got up, feeling no ailment, and proceeded till we came upon the Prophet and informed him.”
Tabari VII:101 “The Khazraj asked the Prophet for permission to kill Sallam Huqayq, who was in Khaybar. He granted this.” Ishaq:482 “One of the favors which Allah conferred upon his Prophet was that these two tribes of the Ansar, the Aws and the Khazraj, used to vie with one another like stallions to carry out the will of Muhammad. The Aws did not do anything which benefited him without the Khazraj saying, ‘By Allah they will not gain superiority over us in Islam in the eyes of the Messenger by doing this.’ And they would not cease until they had done something similar. Thus when the Aws killed Ka’b Ashraf on account of his hostility to Muhammad, the Khazraj conferred to find a man comparable to Ka’b in hostility and called to mind Sallam Huqayq in Khaybar. They asked the Prophet for permission to kill him, and it was granted.”
Tabari VII:101/Ishaq:483 “Sallam’s wife came out and we told her that we were Arabs in search of supplies. When we entered, we bolted the door on her so she gave a shout to warn him of our presence. We rushed upon him with our swords as he lay in his bed. He took his pillow and tried to fend us off. Abd Allah thrust his sword into his stomach and transfixed him while he was shouting, ‘Enough! Enough!’ At once we went out but Abd Allah had bad eyesight, and he fell off the stairway, bruising his leg or arm. ‘How shall we know that the enemy of Allah is dead?’ one of us asked. ‘I will go and look,’ one replied. He set off and mingled with the people. He said, ‘I found him with the men of the Jews, and with his wife, who had a lamp in her hand, peering into his face. She said, ‘By the God of the Jews, he is dead.’ I never heard any more pleasing words than these. We went to the Messenger of Allah and told him that we had killed the enemy of Allah. We disagreed in his presence about the killing of Sallam, each of us claiming to have done it. The Prophet said, ‘Bring me your swords.’ We did and he looked at them. He said, ‘This sword of Abd Allah killed him. I can see the marks left by bones on it.’”
Ishaq:483 “Allah, what a fine band you have, one willing to kill Sallam and Ashraf! We went with sharp swords, like fighting lions. We came upon their homes and made them drink death with our swift-slaying swords. Looking for the victory of our Prophet’s religion, we ignored every risk.”
Tabari VII:112/Ishaq:372 “When a blind Jew became aware of the presence of the Messenger and the Muslims he rose and threw dust in their faces, saying, ‘Even if you are a prophet, I will not allow you into my garden!’ I was told that he took a handful of dirt and said, ‘If only I knew that I would not hit anyone else, Muhammad, I would throw it in your face.’ Sa’d rushed in and hit him on the head with his bow and split the Jew’s head open.”
Ishaq:403 “Allah killed twenty-two polytheists at Uhud.”
Tabari VII:147 “Amr was sent by Muhammad to kill Abu Sufyan [the Quraysh leader and merchant]. The Prophet said, ‘Go to Abu Sufyan and kill him.’ …When I entered Mecca I had a dagger ready to slay anybody who laid hold of me. My Ansar companion asked, ‘Should we start by circumambulating the Ka’aba seven times and praying two rak’ahs?’ I said, ‘I know the Meccans better than you do.’ But he kept pestering me until in the end we went to the Ka’aba, circumambulated it seven times, and prayed.” Tabari VII:148 “One of the Meccans recognized me and shouted, ‘That is Amr!’ They rushed after us, saying, ‘By Allah, Amr has not come here for any good purpose! He has come for some evil reason.’ Amr had been a cutthroat and a desperado before accepting Islam.”
Tabari VII:148 “Amr said, ‘Let’s wait here until the cry has died down. They are sure to hunt for us tonight and tomorrow. I was still in the cave when Uthman bin Malik came riding proudly on his horse. He reached the entrance to our cave and I said to my Ansar companion, ‘If he sees us, he will tell everyone in Mecca.’ So I went out and stabbed him with my dagger. He gave a shout and the Meccans came to him while I went back to my hiding place. Finding him at the point of death, they said, ‘By Allah we knew that Amr came for no good purpose.’ The death of their companion impeded their search for us, for they carried him away.”
Tabari VII:149 “I went into a cave with my bow and arrows. While I was in it, a one-eyed man from the Banu Bakr came in driving some sheep. He said, ‘Who’s there?’ I said [lied], ‘I’m a Banu Bakr.’ ‘So am I.’ Then he laid down next to me, and raised his voice in song: ‘I will not believe in the faith of the Muslims.’ I said, ‘You will soon see!’ Before long the Bedouin went to sleep and started snoring. So I killed him in the most dreadful way that anybody has ever killed. I leant over him, struck the end of my bow into his good eye, and thrust it down until it came out the back of his neck. After that I rushed out like a wild beast and took flight. I came to the village of Naqi and recognized two Meccan spies. I called for them to surrender. They said no so I shot and arrow and killed one, and then I tied the other up and took him to Muhammad.” Tabari VII:150 “I had tied my prisoner’s thumbs together with my bowstring. The Messenger of Allah looked at him and laughed so that his back teeth could be seen. Then he questioned me and I told him what had happened. ‘Well done!’ he said, and prayed for me to be blessed.”
Ishaq:434 “Amr and an Ansari waited until they were asleep. Then Amr killed them, thinking that he had taken vengeance for the Muslims who had been slain. When he came to the Messenger, he told him what had happened. The Prophet said, ‘You have killed men for whom I shall have to pay blood-money.’”
Tabari VIII:22 “Hassan was with the women and children. A Jew passed by and began to walk around his settlement. There was no one to protect them while the Apostle and his Companions were at the Meccans’ throats. So I said: ‘Hassan, this Jew is walking around. I fear he will point out our weakness while the Muslims are too busy to attend to us. So go down to him and kill him.”
Tabari VIII:22/Ishaq:458 “‘Allah forgive you, daughter of Abd al-Muttalib,’ Hassan said. ‘You know that I am not the man to do it.’ When he said that to me I saw that nothing could be expected from him. I girded myself, took a club, and, having gone down from the fortress to the man, I struck him with the club until I killed him. When I had finished with him, I returned to the fortress and said, ‘Hassan, go down to him and strip him—only his being a man kept me from taking his clothes.’ Hassan replied, ‘I have no need for his spoils.’”
Ishaq:464 “The Jews were made to come down, and Allah’s Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina, and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men.” Tabari VIII:40 “The Messenger commanded that furrows should be dug in the ground for the Qurayza. Then he sat down. Ali and Zubayr began cutting off their heads in his presence.”
Tabari VIII:38 “The Messenger of Allah commanded that all of the Jewish men and boys who had reached puberty should be beheaded. Then the Prophet divided the wealth, wives, and children of the Banu Qurayza Jews among the Muslims.”
Tabari VIII:90 “Abu Basir went out with his companions. When they stopped to rest he asked one of them, ‘Is this sword of yours sharp?’ ‘Yes,’ he replied. ‘May I look at it?’ Basir asked. ‘If you wish.’ Basir unsheathed the sword, attacked the man, and killed him. The other Muslim ran back to the Messenger, saying, ‘Your Companion has killed my friend.’ While the man was still there, Abu Basir appeared girded with the sword. He halted before Muhammad and said, ‘Messenger, your obligation has been discharged.’”
Holy Hellenic Empire
13-07-2005, 16:45
TORTURE:

Qur’an 5:33 “The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Prophet and make mischief in the land, is to murder them, crucify them, or cut off a hand and foot on opposite sides...their doom is dreadful. They will not escape the fire, suffering constantly.”
Tabari VIII:122/Ishaq:515 “The Prophet gave orders concerning Kinanah to Zubayr, saying, ‘Torture him until you root out and extract what he has. So Zubayr kindled a fire on Kinanah’s chest, twirling it with his firestick until Kinanah was near death. Then the Messenger gave him to Maslamah, who beheaded him.”
Bukhari:V4B54N487 “The Prophet said, ‘The Hell Fire is 69 times hotter than ordinary worldly fires.’ So someone said, ‘Allah’s Apostle, wouldn’t this ordinary fire have been sufficient to torture the unbelievers?’”
Bukhari:V4B52N260 “Ali burnt some [former Muslims alive] and this news reached Ibn Abbas, who said, ‘Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, “Don’t punish with Allah’s Punishment.” No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, “If a Muslim discards his Islamic religion, kill him.”’”
Qur’an 48:27 “If the Muslims had not been there, We would have punished the unbelievers with a grievous torture.”
Qur’an 9:5 “When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”
Ishaq:550 “The Muslims met them with their swords. They cut through many arms and skulls. Only confused cries and groans could be heard over our battle roars and snarling.”
Qur’an 5:37 “The [Christian] disbelievers will long to get out of the Fire, but never will they get out there from; and theirs will be an enduring torture.”
Tabari IX:6 “The chief sheep tender sent out spies to obtain intelligence. But they came back with their joints dislocated. When he asked what had happened, they said, ‘We saw white men on black horses. Before we could resist, we were struck as you see us now.”
Ishaq:595 “The Apostle said, ‘Get him away from me and cut off his tongue.””
Ishaq:312 “Umar said to the Apostle, ‘Let me pull out Suhayl’s two front teeth. That way his tongue will stick out and he will never be able to speak against you again.’”
Ishaq:316 “Following Badr, Muhammad sent a number of raiders with orders to capture some of the Meccans and burn them alive.”
Qur’an 8:12 “Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: ‘I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.”
Tabari VII:133/Ishaq:387 “When Muhammad saw Hamzah he said, ‘If Allah gives me victory over the Quraysh at any time, I shall mutilate thirty of their men!’ When the Muslims saw the rage of the Prophet they said, ‘By Allah, if we are victorious over them, we shall mutilate them in a way which no Arab has ever mutilated anybody.”
Gataway_Driver
13-07-2005, 16:46
That is one of the most biased poll I have ever seen. Because the starter of this thread is impartial and has an open mind :rolleyes:
Carthage and Troy
13-07-2005, 16:49
I'm assuming the religious fundamentalists are in the minority here, becuase restricting all of a relgion because of a few nutjobs will just allienate those who aren't fundamentalits from you.

Well the thing is, you cant just regulate and investigate certain faiths or churches because that would alienate certain people even more, you have to deal with all groups in the same way.
Drunk commies deleted
13-07-2005, 16:51
I'm from the USA. Can I still vote in the poll or is it only for Brits?
Waveny
13-07-2005, 16:51
My that is sure some nasty scripture, would a follower of Islam have to subscribe and abide by that to the word? Because if so I have a few friends that should probably of killed me by now for being a infidel.
Carops
13-07-2005, 16:52
Maybe if their little "informal alliance" works the world will be a better place.

I really dont think Christianity is the problem here.
Holy Hellenic Empire
13-07-2005, 16:54
My that is sure some nasty scripture, would a follower of Islam have to subscribe and abide by that to the word? Because if so I have a few friends that should probably of killed me by now for being a infidel.
As I said, we are not against the Muslims, we are against Islam as an ideology. People always says, "Look at hte iranians lighting candles after 9/11, this proves how great ISlam is". No it doesn't, it proves the innate goodness of people above the terrorism of Mohammed, Mohammed wasn't allowed to pray or even feel sorrow for his Uncle Abu Talib when he was dying because he said 'Allah forbade it', this is his uncle, a man that brought him up like his son, and because he didnt submit to islam he could not even feel sorry for him, or evn pray for him. Is Allah Insane!?
Orcadia Tertius
13-07-2005, 16:54
I am everybody's great evil. To those on the left, I am a fascist authoritarian. To those on the right, I am a wishy-washy liberal out to destroy the fabric of society.

I'm quite happy here, because if I'm getting attacked by both sides it means I'm probably not an extremist.

Because extremists are the problem - not religion. Religion is, as it always has been, an excuse for violence, and not the cause of it.

It's easy - too easy - for non-Muslims to look at the sort of mindless idiot who'll actually blow themselves up in a desperate bid to be noticed, and say that "that is Islam". It's not. And I know a lot of our own bigots would love to believe it was - that those odd people who go and kneel in the local mosque really ARE alien freaks who aim to destroy Britain and turn it into a Muslim theocracy. Believing this justifies the hate that comes from their fear; the fear that comes from their ignorance.

And that's what this is all about: fear. It's what terrorists hope to exploit, and all too many Britons seem quite happy to oblige them. But we are not afraid. We should not be afraid. We are Britons, and we are stronger than fear. We do not need to lash out. We win by remaining unmoved by these weak and primitive tactics. We lose by changing our lifestyle and our beliefs at the behest of fanatical zombies like last week's bombers.

You ask if religion should be regulated. It shouldn't. And the reason it shouldn't is because to do so would be to submit to fear. If you're inclined to believe that all Muslims are murderous dimbulbs, then you need to get out and meet some Muslims.

This is a free country. And I'd like to see it stay free. That means that people are allowed to practise and manifest their religion, or lack thereof, so long as they don't harm anyone else - and Islam as practised by the huge majority of British Muslims DOESN'T harm anyone else.

Regulate religion or philosophical belief and the logical next step is to regulate political belief. After all, there are political extremists of all stripes. Regulate that and the democracy and freedom of the UK dies right there.
Holy Hellenic Empire
13-07-2005, 16:54
I really dont think Christianity is the problem here.

I guess Atheists prefer a worldwide Caliphate under The Shari'ah. :P
Drunk commies deleted
13-07-2005, 16:57
I guess Atheists prefer a worldwide Caliphate under The Shari'ah. :P
Speaking for myself only, NO! I also don't want to live in the Christian theocracy that people like Jerry Falwell and Rod Parsley advocate.
Alien Born
13-07-2005, 16:57
Are you also prepared to regulate political belief so that the IRA can not function any more. What about ethical beliefs so we can avoid any problems with PETA.

No, stop overreacting and leave freedom of religion alone.
Waveny
13-07-2005, 16:58
I really dont think Christianity is the problem here.

I don't know about that. It's the only religion that has harassed me and then told me that I would spend an eternity in hell. No other major religion has ever taken the time to damn me to hell on a one a one level.
Shangia
13-07-2005, 16:59
Are you also prepared to regulate political belief so that the IRA can not function any more. What about ethical beliefs so we can avoid any problems with PETA.

No, stop overreacting and leave freedom of religion alone.
that makes no sense at all. You are equating political debate with religious debate and they are different.
Holy Hellenic Empire
13-07-2005, 17:00
Speaking for myself only, NO! I also don't want to live in the Christian theocracy that people like Jerry Falwell and Rod Parsley advocate.

You cannot get rid of informal links between Government and Religion, if you study Political Science even the basics this is what you will learn about the problem, if you isolate religion in the point of seperating the State and the Church, then the Church will just fall back on something else, namely, it will become a very large pressure group with large influence over the Governemnt, what are you going to do, stop Church from becoming pressure group? This is natural position it occupies if there is seperation of church and state, any group is entitled to try and influence the governmenttt policy. And dont say 'theocracy', you are bullshitting, you know full well US, howeever tough it is, is not a 'theocracy', that is offensive to the millions living in real opppressive theocracy like Saudi Arabia supported by US $$$
Carops
13-07-2005, 17:01
Speaking for myself only, NO! I also don't want to live in the Christian theocracy that people like Jerry Falwell and Rod Parsley advocate.

Neither do I, I just don't really think this should be about whether or not we all like Christianity....
Carops
13-07-2005, 17:02
I don't know about that. It's the only religion that has harassed me and then told me that I would spend an eternity in hell. No other major religion has ever taken the time to damn me to hell on a one a one level.

Fair enough.... some Christians are arseholes.... *hopes you don't think i am too*
Chaos Experiment
13-07-2005, 17:09
Guys, don't even bother with Holy Hellenic Empire, he's trolling like all hell (as if his first post wasn't enough to tip everyone off).
Romanore
13-07-2005, 17:11
I don't know about that. It's the only religion that has harassed me and then told me that I would spend an eternity in hell. No other major religion has ever taken the time to damn me to hell on a one a one level.

Perhaps your problem lies within those under the Christian name, and not Christianity itself? Christianity doesn't advocate condemnation from its followers, nor harassment.

Scripture doesn't damn to hell. It promotes eternal living. Those who are not in eternal life, however, are in eternal death. I didn't read anywhere about those who refuse eternal life are threatened with pitchforks up the rear or demons having fun with their souls. Eternal death equates to "without God".

As for it being the only religion with a downside to those who are inherently bad? Look here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell#Islam).
Waveny
13-07-2005, 17:13
Fair enough.... some Christians are arseholes.... *hopes you don't think i am too*

Na I try not to let a few nutters tarnish my view of a large diverse group.
Carops
13-07-2005, 17:19
Na I try not to let a few nutters tarnish my view of a large diverse group.

Thats good. Most of my friends are atheists. Most of the people who behave the way that you describe and claim to be Christian are not really very Christian at all. Im not holy or anything, im quite a liberal Catholic, but I think religions should explore the aspects that they share before they attack one another. If people made mroe effort to understand each others' points of view, then maybe there wouldnt be so many problems. Thanks.