NationStates Jolt Archive

And if your choice isn't listed, then go to hell! Just kidding. Post a reply if your choice isn't listed, or just post a reply for the hell of it. Enjoy!

EDITED: Ok. If a choice isn't listed, or if you chose more than one, then explain why. Or I'll stab you in the face.

None.
All Americans are EVIL.
I was expecting some comedy here, you have failed me, Drzhen. You know what the penalty for failure is.
Dun dun dunnnnnn

I don't really like any of the American presidents that particularly much, but I'd have to go with James Polk, simply because he's probably the only president to have fulfilled all of his campaign promises.

You missed Carter... :(

washington, reagan, and bush

Unfortunately, sweetheart, this is one of my lesser comical posts.

I would have to nominate FDR. His New Deal policies reversed a trend set by Hoover of government uninvolvement in social affairs, helped reduce the unemployment level, helped remove the effects of the Great Depression in America, and generally 'remade' society. Besides, he led us in the most critical years of the Second World War. He was a close second to Lincoln, though, who preserved the Union, and freed the slaves.

Has to be Ronnie Ray Gun. Guy was a great president. Will go down in American history as one of the best. My favorite speach was when he reffered to the Soviet Union as the "Evil Empire". Most politicians shit in Washington over that line.

None.
All Americans are EVIL.
I was expecting some comedy here, you have failed me, Drzhen. You know what the penalty for failure is.
Dun dun dunnnnnn


I fully resent that comment

You didn’t list Theodore Roosevelt? He’s on Mont Rushmore for peat’s sake. He was the best president, ever. “Talk softly and carry a big stick.”

You missed Carter... :(

ROFL!

Funniest post in a long time.

Has to be Ronnie Ray Gun. Guy was a great president. Will go down in American history as one of the best. My favorite speach was when he reffered to the Soviet Union as the "Evil Empire". Most politicians shit in Washington over that line.

I'm not so sure he'll go down as one of the greatest in history, and evidently, neither do HISTORIANS:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/choice2004/leadership/schlesinger.html

TWO WORDS:

MANIFEST DESTINY

JAMES K. POLK .......lol

You didn’t list Theodore Roosevelt? He’s on Mont Rushmore for peat’s sake. He was the best president, ever. “Talk softly and carry a big stick.”

I agree, he ranks up there in the top of the list.

I'm not so sure he'll go down as one of the greatest in history, and evidently, neither do HISTORIANS:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/choice2004/leadership/schlesinger.html

Well, with Republicans idolizing him and naming everything after him, I think he will definitely be remembered. Theodore Roosevelt is still better though. :D

I'm not so sure he'll go down as one of the greatest in history, and evidently, neither do HISTORIANS:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/choice2004/leadership/schlesinger.html


Sometimes the passage of time shows the effects of ones term. I think Reagan will gain popularity as time goes by.

I didn't list Theodore Roosevelt because he is rarely remembered for doing anything besides being involved in the Spanish-American war, and creating a policy of near-imperialism in the Americas. So, feel free to talk about what makes you choose him; I encourage democratic discussion.

Sometimes the passage of time shows the effects of ones term. I think Reagan will gain popularity as time goes by.

At least he and his advisors knew how to handle the media.

I didn't list Theodore Roosevelt because he is rarely remembered for doing anything besides being involved in the Spanish-American war, and creating a policy of near-imperialism in the Americas. So, feel free to talk about what makes you choose him; I encourage democratic discussion.

Well, without him there would be cities in the Grand Canyon and Yellowstone, for one thing. He created standards for the disgusting beef industry after reading “The Jungle”. He had a relatively enlightened view of minorities. He wasn’t a partisan. He was the champion of ending corruption in government. He was a devout Christian, but didn’t try to use that to win elections. Plus, he seems like he would be a fun guy to know.

Also, note that Washington is remembered for events that happened before his presidency, as well.

My favorite presidents in this order:

George Washington
Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
Dwight D. Eisenhower

...that is all.

John Quincy Adams.

*looks around* Actually, I'm completely serious. I think he was the coolest president. Why? Well, a couple reasons; One: He came in fifth in Electoral Votes. He was appointed because congress were deadlocked on the top four candidates so they compromised with him. Therefore, he was the best candidate for the job.

Second, and more in line with my goofballian nature, He used to go skinny-dipping. When was the last president who had the balls to go for a nekked swim in the Potomac? Hmm?

Second, and more in line with my goofballian nature, He used to go skinny-dipping. When was the last president who had the balls to go for a nekked swim in the Potomac? Hmm?

One time a reporter stole his clothes and wouldn’t give them back until he granted an interview. :D

JFK, because he managed to nail Marilyn Monroe and Frank Sinatra's girlfriend while in office, while Clinton couldn't even get away with a blowjob from an ugly intern.

JFK, because he managed to nail Marilyn Monroe and Frank Sinatra's girlfriend while in office, while Clinton couldn't even get away with a blowjob from an ugly intern.

Clinton would have gotten away with it as well, if it wasn’t for small, independent new sources that didn’t exist in the 60‘s.

Clinton would have gotten away with it as well, if it wasn’t for small, independent new sources that didn’t exist in the 60‘s.

Nah, Clinton just sucked. He wanted to be Kennedy so badly.

My favorite president.

Theodore Roosevelt: My absolute favorite. Champion of the common people, devoted most of his presidency towards ending government corruption after the appaling Teapot Dome scandal. In addition to his numerous governemt reforms he also dedicated himself to the abolition of the various trusts (beef trust, steel trust, rail trust, etc.) and paved the way for a competitive market. In addition to these things he had a very enlightened view of minorities for that time. And last but not least he was a dedicated conservationist in a time where the logging industry was destroying forests across the nation he established the national park service to preserve the few remaining pristine environments in America. Of course this is just a small part of his presidency but im too tired to write any more. ;)

My favorite president.

Theodore Roosevelt: My absolute favorite. Champion of the common people, devoted most of his presidency towards ending government corruption after the appaling Teapot Dome scandal. In addition to his numerous governemt reforms he also dedicated himself to the abolition of the various trusts (beef trust, steel trust, rail trust, etc.) and paved the way for a competitive market. In addition to these things he had a very enlightened view of minorities for that time. And last but not least he was a dedicated conservationist in a time where the logging industry was destroying forests across the nation he established the national park service to preserve the few remaining pristine environments in America. Of course this is just a small part of his presidency but im too tired to write any more. ;)

He sure was bully! :D

I said Clinton, but thats only because hes the only one I know that I dont have a reason to dislike :D

I said Clinton, but thats only because hes the only one I know that I dont have a reason to dislike

Who cares. Over half of those on the list either kicked the tea and scones out of y’all or saved you from various reichs and evil empires. :D

He sure was bully! :D

You're damn straight he was. And a fine Republican too!

Who cares. Over half of those on the list either kicked the tea and scones out of y’all or saved you from various reichs and evil empires. :D

Only because Japan attacked you, dont expect our gratitude :D
I think we handled the Battle of Britain very well, how else would they get to us?

Anyway, dont forget we made you...and we can destroy you! :gundge:

Only because Japan attacked you, dont expect our gratitude


A common, but understandable, historical inaccuracy. FDR wanted to get into the war and provoked the Japanese.

I think we handled the Battle of Britain very well, how else would they get to us?

The Germans were very close to developing an atom bomb and they were the only country in the world with rockets. Think about it.

Only because Japan attacked you, dont expect our gratitude :D

Bah. And you conveinently forget the lend-lease act. AND all the food we sent to you to keep you from starving.

I think we handled the Battle of Britain very well, how else would they get to us?

Yeah, the RAF kicked the Luftwaffe's ass all the way back to Germany but dont forget about the tunnel they were digging to England. (I shit you not. the French end of the Chunnel was started at that site.)

Anyway, dont forget we made you...and we can destroy you! :gundge:

Sure you can, now run along and play nice with the rest of the Europeans and let the big nations deal with grownup matters. ;)

The Germans were very close to developing an atom bomb and they were the only country in the world with rockets. Think about it.

Not rockets. Everyone used those. The Nazi's had missles. Theres a difference you know.

A common, but understandable, historical inaccuracy. FDR wanted to get into the war and provoked the Japanese.


Quite true, however it actually took a declaration of war from Germany to make the difference didnt it. No doubt, America would have saved Britain if need be, but it wasnt likely in the foreseeable (how the hell do you spell that?) future.


The Germans were very close to developing an atom bomb and they were the only country in the world with rockets. Think about it.

How close though? They didnt finish until several years after the war if I remember correctly. We could have done them in by then. Anyway this is off topic. I dont know or hate FDR.

Sure you can, now run along and play nice with the rest of the Europeans and let the big nations deal with grownup matters. ;)

Honestly, you make some points but then you come up with that gem. :rolleyes:

Next time try sending your useless troops into the middle east alone, leaving us little nations alone then.

Not rockets. Everyone used those. The Nazi's had missles. Theres a difference you know.

Noted.
Rockets= Big ol’ flying pieces of metal
Missiles=Big ol’ flying pieces of metal that blow stuff up

Quite true, however it actually took a declaration of war from Germany to make the difference didnt it. No doubt, America would have saved Britain if need be, but it wasnt likely in the foreseeable (how the hell do you spell that?) future.

It was all part of FDR's plan.

How close though? They didnt finish until several years after the war if I remember correctly. We could have done them in by then.

I will say one more thing about this. The Germans were almost done constructing a very crucial component, but they had to dismantle it in the face of the American led advance. That set them (the German scientists)back quite a bit.

Jefferson Davis, yee ha....

I will say one more thing about this. The Germans were almost done constructing a very crucial component, but they had to dismantle it in the face of the American led advance. That set them (the German scientists)back quite a bit.

Hold up, you are forgetting one small thing. America and Britain raced to Berlin under the threat of what? What would happen if they hadnt attacked? It has something to do with the east, Commmunism, Stalin, a long winter, major f*** up on the behalf of Germany and a 46 year separation :D

Can you guess what it is yet?

One time a reporter stole his clothes and wouldn’t give them back until he granted an interview. :D

Yes indeed. *nod*

Hold up, you are forgetting one small thing. America and Britain raced to Berlin under the threat of what? What would happen if they hadnt attacked? It has something to do with the east, Commmunism, Stalin, a long winter, major f*** up on the behalf of Germany and a 46 year separation :D

Can you guess what it is yet?

Thus, the saving from the evil empire part.

My favorite president.

Theodore Roosevelt: My absolute favorite. Champion of the common people, devoted most of his presidency towards ending government corruption after the appaling Teapot Dome scandal. In addition to his numerous governemt reforms he also dedicated himself to the abolition of the various trusts (beef trust, steel trust, rail trust, etc.) and paved the way for a competitive market. In addition to these things he had a very enlightened view of minorities for that time. And last but not least he was a dedicated conservationist in a time where the logging industry was destroying forests across the nation he established the national park service to preserve the few remaining pristine environments in America. Of course this is just a small part of his presidency but im too tired to write any more. ;)

I love Teddy too. He was a great conservationist and reformer, not to mention he built the American navy into a force to be reckoned with (would served to be a useful endeavor soon later). And could you imagine he was president today? No Microsoft/Wal-Mart, as he was a trust-busting extraordinaire, no horrible environmental policies, less government corruption, less partisan bickering, and if he did take us into Iraq, he would know how to win the peace.
One thing though, he was President before the Teapot Dome Scandal: that was Harding, who was elected in 1920. Roosevelt left office in 1909.
Of those on the list, I voted for Abe, because he was a great speaker, held the country together, and freed the slaves.

Well, with Republicans idolizing him and naming everything after him, I think he will definitely be remembered. Theodore Roosevelt is still better though. :D


Theodore Roosevelt was also a Republican...

Theodore Roosevelt was also a Republican...

As was Lincoln, but the Republican party of "back in the day" was a very different beast from the current Republican party. It was orignaly founded as Free Soil party (against the expansion of slavery) so that when the Civil War and Reconstruction were over, it sorta lost it's main issue. Teddy was a Republican, but he was also a Progressive, and he got his issue through congress by creating a bipartisan base of progressive Republicans and Democrats.
FDR changed the entire polical dynamic. To me, it seems like since the New Deal the Democrats have been all about continuing FDRs work, and the Republicans fighting it.

Theodore Roosevelt was also a Republican...

I knew that. Just wanted to affirm that I wasn’t one of those RONNY IZ TEH PAWNSER!!111!!!! people. He was a good president, but he doesn’t rate among the top five IMHO:

1. Theodore Roosevelt (Republican)
2. Abraham Lincoln (Republican)
3. Thomas Jefferson (Democratic Republican)
4. James K. Polk (Democrat)
5. James Monroe (Democrat)

Note: The three non-Republicans are Jeffersonian Democrats, quite different from today’s Democrats

Honestly, you make some points but then you come up with that gem. :rolleyes:

Next time try sending your useless troops into the middle east alone, leaving us little nations alone then.

It was meant to be tounge in cheek. I'll have you know im not in favor of my nations foreign policies. Im a staunch issolationist and I belive that the US should have as little to do with the foreign affairs of other nations as possible. Sorry you took it seriously (see winking smiley) but there are undesireable elements in my country that seriously think like that. Can you forgive me? :(

I love Teddy too. He was a great conservationist and reformer, not to mention he built the American navy into a force to be reckoned with (would served to be a useful endeavor soon later). And could you imagine he was president today? No Microsoft/Wal-Mart, as he was a trust-busting extraordinaire, no horrible environmental policies, less government corruption, less partisan bickering, and if he did take us into Iraq, he would know how to win the peace.
One thing though, he was President before the Teapot Dome Scandal: that was Harding, who was elected in 1920. Roosevelt left office in 1909.
Of those on the list, I voted for Abe, because he was a great speaker, held the country together, and freed the slaves.

OH SHI- Wait, then who was the one that was assinated when Teddy came to office? (when T. was vice president I mean?) I typed that up quite late... hmm, need to review my presidents...

Noted.
Rockets= Big ol’ flying pieces of metal
Missiles=Big ol’ flying pieces of metal that blow stuff up

Ah, missles are guided, rockets are not. Sorry for nit picking on seeming trivial details but im neurotic like that.

OH SHI- Wait, then who was the one that was assinated when Teddy came to office? (when T. was vice president I mean?) I typed that up quite late... hmm, need to review my presidents...
William McKinley, who was assassinated in 1901 by Anarchist Leon Czolgosz.

William McKinley, who was assassinated in 1901 by Anarchist Leon Czolgosz.

Wasnt it with a knife?

I voted for Ronald Reagan but for me It's a toss up between him and Lyndon Johnson.Johnson because of what he did for civil rights during his presidency

Ah, missles are guided, rockets are not. Sorry for nit picking on seeming trivial details but im neurotic like that.
Ballistic missiles (and V-2 was a ballistic missile) aren't guided, BTW. Their course is determined by the laws of ballistics.

Ballistic missiles (and V-2 was a ballistic missile) aren't guided, BTW. Their course is determined by the laws of ballistics.

Whatever. Lets go with primitive guidance and leave it at that. >_>

Wasnt it with a knife?
IIRC it was a shooting. Mr McKinley's wound was erroneously deemed to be non-life-threatening at first. But the doctors were wrong.

I voted for Ronald Reagan but for me It's a toss up between him and Lyndon Johnson.Johnson because of what he did for civil rights during his presidency

LBJ’s great screw up, otherwise known as Vietnam, will always put him near the bottom on my list.

IIRC it was a shooting. Mr McKinley's wound was erroneously deemed to be non-life-threatening at first. But the doctors were wrong.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up for me.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1b/Nixon_30-0316a.gif
"People have got to know whether or not their president is a crook. Well, I'm not a crook. I earned everything I've got."

What about the Fat Man? Taft, taft, TAFT!

What about the Fat Man? Taft, taft, TAFT!

Did you know that Taft was a member of Skull and Bones when he was at Yale? But I have to say that I dislike Taft for costing Teddy the 1912 election, splitting the ticket and giving the win to Wilson.

[Simpsons Tangent]
Smithers: Mr. Burns can't stand talking to his mother. He never forgave her for having that affair with president Taft.
Homer: [chuckles] Taft, you old dog.
[/Simpsons Tanget]

You missed Carter... :(

Carter's a piece of shit. Who cares about him?

Best President ever was Washington, hands down. The best 20th century President (and arguably the only good one) was Calvin Coolidge. Other great Presidents were Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, and Grover Cleveland. Andrew Jackson was in some ways one of the best (got rid of the national bank), yet also one of the worst (Trail of Tears).

Did you know that Taft was a member of Skull and Bones when he was at Yale? But I have to say that I dislike Taft for costing Teddy the 1912 election, splitting the ticket and giving the win to Wilson.

More accurately, it was Teddy who split the vote for Taft. You see, Roosevelt ran under the reform party in that election, while Taft ran as a Republican. After the election, Roosevelt never truly forgave himself for losing the election for the Republicans.

Carter's a piece of shit. Who cares about him?

I haven’t said this in a while, but after viewing your posts El Caudillo, I’m going to say it:

You’re my kind of scum. A great rper and a politically incorrect general poster that I agree with is hard to come by.

I find it frightening that Abraham Lincoln has less votes than Bill Clinton.

I find it frightening that Abraham Lincoln has less votes than Bill Clinton.
Mr Lincoln's got mine vote -- he was wartime leader who preserved the United States as a whole and ended slavery. He wasn't without faults, of course.

You didn’t list Theodore Roosevelt? He’s on Mont Rushmore for peat’s sake. He was the best president, ever. “Talk softly and carry a big stick.”
And if it weren't for Teddy, we wouldn't have Teddys... they'd probably all be called "Poohs". :p

I find it frightening that Abraham Lincoln has less votes than Bill Clinton.

Personally, I find it sickening. I guess some people are going to say, “Well, Lincoln imprisoned people without Habeas Corpus.” I refer those ignoramuses to Article I, section 9

"The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it."

Not only was he the only Prez that turned down a second term while he could have won, he was one of the 3 that lost the popular vote yet won in the Electoral College.

However, he basically healed the country after the Civil War, reintegrated the South, and erased the scandal and graft of the Grant years. In a way, Grant/Hayes is VERY much like Clinton/W Bush...

Carter's a piece of shit. Who cares about him?
The man actually has courage. He's willing to do things that are morally right even though the general public is convinced that its un-American.

The man actually has courage. He's willing to do things that are morally right even though the general public is convinced that its un-American.

Which is exactly why he was a terrible president. In a representative republic, those who are elected are supposed to represent those who elected them.

Which is exactly why he was a terrible president. In a representative republic, those who are elected are supposed to represent those who elected them.
Ah, but it might make him a good man. At least he's willing to consider that the American embargo on Cuba is morally wrong ( :eek: Blasphemy!) He still goes around brokers peace, unlike someone else I know.

Ah, but it might make him a good man. At least he's willing to consider that the American embargo on Cuba is morally wrong ( :eek: Blasphemy!) He still goes around brokers peace, unlike someone else I know.

Jimmy Carter was and will always be a naïve fool. He gave the Panama Canal (one of Theodore Roosevelt’s victories) to the Panamanians, when it was American sweat and blood that built it. You know who owns it now? The Chinese. Yeah, real improvement Carter. Now a nation owns it that had nothing to do with building it at all.

Jimmy Carter was and will always be a naïve fool. He gave the Panama Canal (one of Theodore Roosevelt’s victories) to the Panamanians, when it was American sweat and blood that built it. You know who owns it now? The Chinese. Yeah, real improvement Carter. Now a nation owns it that had nothing to do with building it at all.
The Chinese company leased the Panama Canal from the Government of Panama, it didn't buy it. And that's capitalism (although it can be reasonably supposed that some Panamanian palms were greased before the lease was awarded to Hutchinson Whampoa).

Jimmy Carter was and will always be a naïve fool. He gave the Panama Canal (one of Theodore Roosevelt’s victories) to the Panamanians, when it was American sweat and blood that built it. You know who owns it now? The Chinese. Yeah, real improvement Carter. Now a nation owns it that had nothing to do with building it at all.Maybe we shouldn't have shown them how capitalism works then. And as for the American sweat and blood that built it, it was the Panamanians blood that was spilled to keep it American.
On a side note, Carter reaps international credibility at a level the current administration can only dream about.

Maybe we shouldn't have shown them how capitalism works then. And as for the American sweat and blood that built it, it was the Panamanians blood that was spilled to keep it American.
On a side note, Carter reaps international credibility at a level the current administration can only dream about.

I couldn’t care less about “international credibility” most Europeans are Democratic Socialists, an oxymoron. Anyway, what are you talking about? One threat from Teddy and the Columbians let Panama go. Panama then gave us the land for the canal and thousands of American workers slaved away on it. Many of them dieing from heat exhaustion or malaria.

I couldn’t care less about “international credibility” most Europeans are Democratic Socialists, an oxymoron. Anyway, what are you talking about? One threat from Teddy and the Columbians let Panama go. Panama then gave us the land for the canal and thousands of American workers slaved away on it. Many of them dieing from heat exhaustion or malaria.
Well wadya know? The French helped too! :D
Together the French and American expenditures totaled $639,000,000. It took 34 years from the initial effort in 1880 to actually open the Canal in 1914. It is estimated that over 80,000 persons took part in the construction and that over 30,000 lives were lost in both French and American efforts.
Source (http://www.canalmuseum.com/)

David Rice Atchison

None.
All Americans are EVIL.
I was expecting some comedy here, you have failed me, Drzhen. You know what the penalty for failure is.
Dun dun dunnnnnn

LOL!!!!

Well wadya know? The French helped too! :D

Source (http://www.canalmuseum.com/)

France didn’t “help." They had an earlier effort that failed because the proper technology did not exist at the time and, to put it quite bluntly, they just weren’t ambitious enough.

France didn’t “help." They had an earlier effort that failed because the proper technology did not exist at the time and, to put it quite bluntly, they just weren’t ambitious enough.
Could you source that? I went through the trouble to give you one...

You didn’t list Theodore Roosevelt? He’s on Mont Rushmore for peat’s sake. He was the best president, ever. “Talk softly and carry a big stick.”
Well, without him there would be cities in the Grand Canyon and Yellowstone, for one thing. He created standards for the disgusting beef industry after reading “The Jungle”. He had a relatively enlightened view of minorities. He wasn’t a partisan. He was the champion of ending corruption in government. He was a devout Christian, but didn’t try to use that to win elections.
Wow, I'm surprised that a right winger says this! I also like Roosevelt I.

I said Clinton, but thats only because hes the only one I know that I dont have a reason to dislike :D
He killed almost 1,000,000 people in Sudan and Iraq!

Has to be Ronnie Ray Gun. Guy was a great president. Will go down in American history as one of the best. My favorite speach was when he reffered to the Soviet Union as the "Evil Empire". Most politicians shit in Washington over that line.
The confrontational attitude to the USSR was good, but using hired terrorists to kill civilians in central America, and increasing the wealth gap in the world is not OK.

Washington, Jefferson, Andy Jackson, Lincoln, Teddy R., Reagan, Bush (Jr.).

Also, U.S. Grant, if we're talking about interesting background stories, although his administration wasn't so fantastic. It's just amazing where he came from, and where he wound up.

I'm torn between FDR and Clinton. FDR for his policies, and Clinton for his administration's comedy - on leaving office to make way for George W. Bush, they removed all the Ws from the keyboards in the White House.

Jimmy Carter, the last upstanding and decent man to sit in the Oval Office.

Could you source that? I went through the trouble to give you one...

http://www.eclipse.co.uk/~sl5763/panama.htm

Eventually, in 1899 the French attempt at constructing the Panama Canal was seen to be a failure. However, they had excavated a total of 59.75 million cubic metres which included 14.255 million cubic metres from the Culebra Cut. This lowered the peak by 102 metres. The value of work completed by the French was about $ 25 million. When the French left, they left behind a considerable amount of machinery housing and a hospital. The reasons behind the French failing to complete the project were due to disease carrying mosquitos and the inadequacy of their machinery.

Jimmy Carter, the last upstanding and decent man to sit in the Oval Office.Yes! Finally another vote for Carter! :p

I haven’t said this in a while, but after viewing your posts El Caudillo, I’m going to say it:

You’re my kind of scum. A great rper and a politically incorrect general poster that I agree with is hard to come by.
He's Roach-Busters!

I couldn’t care less about “international credibility” most Europeans are Democratic Socialists, an oxymoron.
When you're an interventionist country, you have to care about international credibility, especially if what you're doing is supposed to be helping other people. Most Europeans are Democratic Socialists (not an oxymoron) so does that make our opinions worthless?

France didn’t “help." They had an earlier effort that failed because the proper technology did not exist at the time and, to put it quite bluntly, they just weren’t ambitious enough.
France can never win with you guys, can they?

I'm torn between FDR and Clinton. FDR for his policies, and Clinton for his administration's comedy - on leaving office to make way for George W. Bush, they removed all the Ws from the keyboards in the White House.

I heard about that. I always thought it was a joke, even though a news broadcast DID mention the keyboards a few days after Bush took office. But they said they couldn't confirm the report. I think it's funny as hell if it was true.

My one issue with Roosevelt is the way he took advantage of Europe during the early stages of the 2nd World War.

The sale of arms at extortionate prices helped to create the post war economic problems Europe suffered.

He was also responsible partly for the early independence of British Colonies.

Now while their independence is a good thing the timing was wrong. Before the war, and American intervention existed Britain had a long term plan for their independence which included setting up governmental infrastructure, law systems, democratic elections and ensuring that the countries were economically and governmentally stable.

However, America forced a major change in this policy by refusing to help Britain unless she relinquished control of her Colonies. This is a large part of the reason for many of the dictatorships in area’s of Africa and instability throughout the world. The countries were made independent before they were ready.

But still my favourite America President is a hard one, but probably Lincoln. Not sure though.

http://www.eclipse.co.uk/~sl5763/panama.htm
Your quote basically says that the French put a lot of work into the project that the Americans eventually finished.

I heard about that. I always thought it was a joke, even though a news broadcast DID mention the keyboards a few days after Bush took office. But they said they couldn't confirm the report. I think it's funny as hell if it was true.

It was in my Government & Politics textbook for A-level. Can't beat it for comedy value. Perhaps rivalled by the stupidity of Reaganomics removing far too many federal categorical grants and failing to replace them with block grants, which then bankrupted New York State.

Wow, I'm surprised that a right winger says this! I also like Roosevelt I.

What? A right winger can’t be an environmentalist? (at least one of Roosevelt’s variety in which you preserve for the enjoyment of mankind, not for its own sake)

When you're an interventionist country, you have to care about international credibility, especially if what you're doing is supposed to be helping other people. Most Europeans are Democratic Socialists (not an oxymoron) so does that make our opinions worthless?

I am adamantly opposed to the current administrations interventionist policies. There is no Evil Empire to fight anymore! Bring the troops home. Secure our own boarders not the Syrian-Iraqi boarder! The only place we need troops is in Germany for its strategic airbase location. If we would stop driving so much or start using the technology available for better fuel efficiency, we wouldn’t even need troops in Saudi Arabia. Frankly, I am even more sickened that President Bush got votes than Clinton having more than Lincoln. Do people have no historical knowledge what so ever?

France can never win with you guys, can they?

They ran one of the coolest resistance movements ever.

Frankly, I am even more sickened that President Bush got votes than Clinton having more than Lincoln. Do people have no historical knowledge what so ever?You just managed to impress me! You're not so bad after all.

Your quote basically says that the French put a lot of work into the project that the Americans eventually finished.

The French put a small dent in the project, and wasted a vast amount of recourses. The US did most of it, and did it faster and more efficiently.

Your quote basically says that the French put a lot of work into the project that the Americans eventually finished.

When you go through the Panama Canal, you can still see the some of the rusting equipment on the 10 mile stretch they completed. Theirs was going to be a ditch, like Suez was, and not a lock system. The US started work anew in a different spot.

http://www.norseaodyssey.com/Our_Travels/North_America/Panama/Panama_Canal/panama_canal.htm

the greatest are really tied, i think... they are, in my estimation:

Washington, Jefferson and Lincoln

Since Lincoln is the only Republican among them, I voted for him. hehe

The French put a small dent in the project, and wasted a vast amount of recourses. The US did most of it, and did it faster and more efficiently.Still, considering that we "stole" the territory from Columbia, it's only morally correct for it to be owned by the Panamanians.

Still, considering that we "stole" the territory from Columbia, it's only morally correct for it to be owned by the Panamanians.

We paid for it. We got the Panamanians independence in exchange for the land. We built it, it was rightfully ours. Carter was just an idiot who cared more about the rest of the world than his fellow Americans.

Jefferson Davis, yee ha....

I completely concur, and add onto that.

1. Jefferson Davis
2. George W. Bush
3. Ronald Reagan
4. Richard Nixon

We paid for it. We got the Panamanians independence in exchange for the land. We built it, it was rightfully ours. Carter was just an idiot who cared more about the rest of the world than his fellow Americans.
The only reason we got the Panamanians independence was because of the canal, so don't wave that as a noble deed. I'm glad that Carter cared more for the rest of the world than his fellow Americans did (though I might be misinterpreting you there :D) because its high time someone in the Administration did.

In the short history of 200 odd years in which it quadrupled in size, the country south of Canada (and nowadays only north, previously east of Mejico), the USA, has had ONE SINGLE president that was NOT reviled but more than 2/3 of world's population -- and he was Honourable Jimmy Carter.

The rest were mostly regarded as morons by most of the world. Well, perhaps the one in the wheelchair (what-was-his-name?) was given some sympathy.

In the short history of 200 odd years in which it quadrupled in size, the country south of Canada (and nowadays only north, previously east of Mejico), the USA, has had ONE SINGLE president that was NOT reviled but more than 2/3 of world's population -- and he was Honourable Jimmy Carter.

The rest were mostly regarded as morons by most of the world. Well, perhaps the one in the wheelchair (what-was-his-name?) was given some sympathy.
Three votes for Carter! That's almost as many as Bush Jr.

Interesting opinions. Quite a wide range of views.

He killed almost 1,000,000 people in Sudan and Iraq!

Care to prove this claim, SwimmingPool?

I also heard people talking about how the Clinton administration removed the "W" key from keyboards. Considering the White House replaces computers for security reasons, this would make no sense even if it were true. And it is not true because it is a rumor. If anyone thinks it happened, feel free to provide a link to a real news organization. It's just simply this: I've seen CNN and Fox talk about this, and have them say it is an "unfounded rumor". It's just a matter of believing in something that has no physical evidence. Such as God, in a friendly tone.

I have also heard people talk about Reagan, Nixon, etc. The thing I must ask: why? What makes them special? Because Reagan was charismatic? And as for Nixon... I shudder.

I chose FDR completely outside the political party aspect. I couldn't imagine a better president, besides Lincoln, who could lift our country out of the Depression, and lead our nation in the most critical years of the Second World War, and initiate social programs which modernized the South in an "infrastructurial" sense.

But anyways. I enjoyed all the opinions provided. I would just like people to explain *why* some of their choices were the way they were.

In the short history of 200 odd years in which it quadrupled in size, the country south of Canada (and nowadays only north, previously east of Mejico), the USA, has had ONE SINGLE president that was NOT reviled but more than 2/3 of world's population -- and he was Honourable Jimmy Carter.

The rest were mostly regarded as morons by most of the world. Well, perhaps the one in the wheelchair (what-was-his-name?) was given some sympathy.

Um, right. That’s why Teddy won the Nobel Peace Prize, right? Because everyone hated him.

I completely concur, and add onto that.

1. Jefferson Davis


Calling Jefferson Davis an American President is like saying that Taco Bell is Mexican food.

Why not throw in Samuel Huntington while you're at it? :rolleyes:

Calling Jefferson Davis an American President is like saying that Taco Bell is Mexican food.

Why not throw in Samuel Huntington while you're at it? :rolleyes:

Well you know, Huntington has some views I agree with, but then again, he's never been president of the C.S.A. or U.S.A. has he? The poll said American, the C.S.A. was/is American, so why ignore a perfectly legal president? Eh, too bad the likes of General Lee & Stonewall didn't live, they would've made great presidents.

I'm not surprised that Bush comes dead last.

James K. Polk

54 40 or Fight!

Jimmy Carter!
I like Jimmy Carter. Some of the stuff he did was stupid, but in foreign policy, he set some very good accents.

...The only place we need troops is in Germany for its strategic airbase location...
BOOO!
Go to...Georgia! Georgia is nice. Or Uzbekistan.

Quoting Sino
I'm not surprised that Bush comes dead last.

A chronological list doesn't surprise me, either.

Quoting Undelia
The only place we need troops is in Germany for its strategic airbase location...

Not necessarily. Aircraft carriers make an efficient base.

BOOO!
Go to...Georgia! Georgia is nice. Or Uzbekistan.

Oh come on, you know our troops provide ya’ll with a lot of business, but if a majority of you voted for us to leave I say we do. I was just under the impression that cities with US bases get an economic boost. Its true of the US, anyway.

Not necessarily. Aircraft carriers make an efficient base.

Nothing beats a good old fashioned peace of land to amass troops on, should a foreign nations prove to be an active threat to the US.

I'm not surprised that Bush comes dead last.

Neither am I. The only people that would vote for him for best president ever, are either historically ignorant or just trying to be funny.

I am a big fan of Reagan's, but I have to put Theodore Roosevelt as the best president in history. From the square deal, to his nationalistic foreign policy, he had a lot of good ideas; especially for his time. That said, I also agree that President Bush is far from the greatest president in history. Although better than Clinton and far better than Carter (not hard), he has too many short-comings (won't put a stop illegal immigration, spends to much on social programs, just to name a few).

Bill Clinton, not only did he preside over one of the most successful US economies and foreign policy periods, but he got blown in the whitehouse, this man is a hero.

Also nobody put G.W.Bush, I would have liked to give credit to America's first mentally retarded president.

1) James Madison
2) James Monroe
3) Ronald Reagen
4) Abraham Lincoln
5) William McKinley

Bill Clinton, not only did he preside over one of the most successful US economies and foreign policy periods, but he got blown in the whitehouse, this man is a hero.

Also nobody put G.W.Bush, I would have liked to give credit to America's first mentally retarded president.

Huh? Having an stripped American serviceman dragged through the streets of Somalia and bombing the Chinese Embassy were foreign poliyc successes? Albright chasing after Arrafat like an unpopular girl at a prom?!? Yeech.
Never mind allowing the North Koreans to extort us for aid and not inspect them for treaty breaches...

Clinton did some very good things domestically, and the stock market was roaring. But to say he had a good foreign policy is stretching it a bit.

Not necessarily. Aircraft carriers make an efficient base.

Even America's supercarriers can't land troop transports.
However, I hear that Bulgaria and a few other countries are nice, too. ;)

Actually, I have a question for you Americans.

What was wrong with Jimmy Carter? So far, it seems to me like he's not very popular at all. He's not on the poll either.
Is it only Republicans and other Right-Wingers that can't stand him, or did he something else that was really wrong?

Well you know, Huntington has some views I agree with, but then again, he's never been president of the C.S.A. or U.S.A. has he? The poll said American, the C.S.A. was/is American, so why ignore a perfectly legal president? Eh, too bad the likes of General Lee & Stonewall didn't live, they would've made great presidents.

The CSA was not a legitimate country. It wasn't recognised diplomatically except by some German duchy. Further, Davis wasn't elected by popular vote nor electoral college, he was installed and then voted on later.

Actually, I have a question for you Americans.

What was wrong with Jimmy Carter? So far, it seems to me like he's not very popular at all. He's not on the poll either.
Is it only Republicans and other Right-Wingers that can't stand him, or did he something else that was really wrong?

Carter had the misfortune of having a VERY bad cabinet. Under him the US appeared weak, especially with the hostages in Iran, high (double digit!) inflation, and the energy crisis.

The CSA was not a legitimate country. It wasn't recognised diplomatically except by some German duchy. Further, Davis wasn't elected by popular vote nor electoral college, he was installed and then voted on later.

Then why were the British considering coming to our aid? And Davis becoming president on short notice wasn't exactly a crime or anything. If I were trying to secede, going through all the political jargon wouldn't exactly be my top priority. And based upon the research I've been doing, it's largely assumed that we (the C.S.A.) are still an actual country in occupation from U.S. forces, only problem is that we can't exactly raise a militia now can we? Oh, and we did have a Constitution and a Declaration of Independence much as the U.S.A. did when we seceded from Great Britain. The American Constitution at that time did not mention anything about states not being able to secede and therefore it was legal for those eleven states to do so. Once again, just like in 1776.

-snip-
:D
Yeeehaw!!!

hehe, maybe the Brits should've come to "your" aid. They could've gotten their colonies back...

Jimmy Carter!
I like Jimmy Carter. Some of the stuff he did was stupid, but in foreign policy, he set some very good accents.
Alright! Carter is tied with Bush jr!

...The Chinese. Yeah, real improvement Carter. Now a nation owns it that had nothing to do with building it at all...
This is a little older, but I can't help myself...
Welcome to Capitalism!
:D

Bill Clinton, not only did he preside over one of the most successful US economies and foreign policy periods, but he got blown in the whitehouse, this man is a hero.

Also nobody put G.W.Bush, I would have liked to give credit to America's first mentally retarded president.

Mentally retarded huh? I'm sorry, how many of you guys have graduated from the top Ivy League school of Harvard? That's what I thought.

Ah, the true test of American stupidity...

FDR, Kennedy, Regan, and Clinton are all polled to beat out George Washington and Thomas Jefferson.

And James Madison isn't even mentioned on the poll.

American education in the twenty first century... oh happy day.

Actually, I have a question for you Americans.

What was wrong with Jimmy Carter? So far, it seems to me like he's not very popular at all. He's not on the poll either.
Is it only Republicans and other Right-Wingers that can't stand him, or did he something else that was really wrong?

Yeah, he did do something wrong. He didn't finish the job in Vietnam. Thousands of Americans lost their lives because of that moron. That's one of the reason I highly respect Bush, at least he has the balls to finish the job. Oh, and to all you who think we're over there for oil. We're not using any of it. If we were would our freaking gas prices be as high as they are? Honestly, most of you don't live here, you don't know what goes on, you have no right to criticize us or our leader. You don't see us talking crap on the Queen or Tony Blair, it's because it's none of our business and we don't care...oh and we've also saved most of y'all's countries...except Germany, they had it coming.

-snip-
I thought you were funny, but now you're becoming just a little bit too trashy for my liking.
a) Your gas prices aren't high at all. You could pay about 7 or 8 US Dollars for a gallon in Europe.
b) I can criticise whoever I want. That's freedom of speech, my friend.
c) You do criticise leaders from all over the world. Blair just happened to be kissing someone's arse - Chirac didn't.
d) "Germany had it coming."? :rolleyes:

Yeah, he did do something wrong. He didn't finish the job in Vietnam. Thousands of Americans lost their lives because of that moron. That's one of the reason I highly respect Bush, at least he has the balls to finish the job. Oh, and to all you who think we're over there for oil. We're not using any of it. If we were would our freaking gas prices be as high as they are? Honestly, most of you don't live here, you don't know what goes on, you have no right to criticize us or our leader. You don't see us talking crap on the Queen or Tony Blair, it's because it's none of our business and we don't care...oh and we've also saved most of y'all's countries...except Germany, they had it coming.

...I'm guessing you don't realize it was Nixon that got us out of 'Nam.

Carter's unpopularity is due to the TV media. They brought him up, and they later brought him down. His notable "screw up" was the Iran/Contra affair. He was the media's ***** after that.

A lot of America's problems stem from Nixon in regards to the people's trust in the government to its view of its politicians.

I thought you were funny, but now you're becoming just a little bit too trashy for my liking.
a) Your gas prices aren't high at all. You could pay about 7 or 8 US Dollars for a gallon in Europe.
b) I can criticise whoever I want. That's freedom of speech, my friend.
c) You do criticise leaders from all over the world. Blair just happened to be kissing someone's arse - Chirac didn't.
d) "Germany had it coming."? :rolleyes:

Just ignore the idiot. He's an angsty teen on the net trying to be a patriot when he's just an uninformed nationalistic young fool. Its also very easy to see he doesn't know the events of the era. I'm a well informed American adult who spends way to much time talking about government on my spare time (a few minutes late at night). In fact, it is late as hell for me. I've got work tomorrow.

Before I go though, I'm also from Texas. But that just means I love my guns, civil rights, a republic form of government, but I hate the damned current government corruption. I'm no bush humping neo-con fascist nor a democrat ultra-liberal.

Yeah, he did do something wrong. He didn't finish the job in Vietnam. Thousands of Americans lost their lives because of that moron. That's one of the reason I highly respect Bush, at least he has the balls to finish the job. Oh, and to all you who think we're over there for oil. We're not using any of it. If we were would our freaking gas prices be as high as they are? Honestly, most of you don't live here, you don't know what goes on, you have no right to criticize us or our leader. You don't see us talking crap on the Queen or Tony Blair, it's because it's none of our business and we don't care...oh and we've also saved most of y'all's countries...except Germany, they had it coming.
Of course we're not over there for the oil! We're there so American companies can get paid with state funds and international donations to rebuild Iraq.

This is a little older, but I can't help myself...
Welcome to Capitalism!
:D


Even Capitalism has its limits (holy crap did I just say that :eek: ).
And allowing the enemy to control our ability to sail our fleets efficiently from the Pacific to the Atlantic is a time when protectionism should come into play.

Even Capitalism has its limits (holy crap did I just say that :eek: ).

I think I'm gonna have to frame that one. :D

John F. Kennedy, great president although he was unfortunately assasinated in 1963
I am sure he would have done a lot more if he was still president
also due to the fact that I did a 30-page long essay on him :p

I think I'm gonna have to frame that one. :D

You go right ahead. No ideology made by man is perfect.

John F. Kennedy, great president although he was unfortunately assasinated in 1963
I am sure he would have done a lot more if he was still president
also due to the fact that I did a 30-page long essay on him :p

I can’t forgive him for his botching of the Bay of Pigs. Also, there was that whole thing with all those dead people voting alphabetically in Chicago…

You go right ahead. No ideology made by man is perfect.



I can’t forgive him for his botching of the Bay of Pigs. Also, there was that whole thing with all those dead people voting alphabetically in Chicago…


dead people voting? could you give more information, never heard that.

dead people voting? could you give more information, never heard that.My dad's always told me the dead vote democrat in West Virginia...

...I'm guessing you don't realize it was Nixon that got us out of 'Nam.Wrong... it was "Charlie" that got you out of Vietnam.

As for my picks...
FDR is the greatest.
I also like Woodrow Wilson, Bill Clinton and Abraham Lincoln.

p.s. Commenting a presidents personal life is for talk shows and magazine columnists. :rolleyes:

Not on the list:

John Adams.

And if your choice isn't listed, then go to hell! Just kidding. Post a reply if your choice isn't listed, or just post a reply for the hell of it. Enjoy!

EDITED: Ok. If a choice isn't listed, or if you chose more than one, then explain why. Or I'll stab you in the face.

You could have at least listed an other option in place of the last three....

Why? You missed T. Roosevelt, R. Nixon, etc. (those two being my faves)

Great Denizistan, the dead voting referres to a form of election fraud in which names from gravestones are fraudulantly registered as "voters". It's fairly common to any corrupt electoral system, such as the UK's rotten bouroghs, New York, or Chicago.

Why? You missed T. Roosevelt, R. Nixon, etc. (those two being my faves)Nixon? um... lol?

I am questioning anyone that put Bush or Clinton as their favorite, not due to any dislike for either president, but due to a possible age factor... If you are just voting Bush or Clinton because that is what you were exposed to for the past 15 years or so, that my invalidate your vote. Again, no disrespect to either president, which both have accomplishments that I respect...

Also,

Is anyone else surprised by the high amount of FDR votes? I know the New Deal was great for everyone, and that he had quite a bit of accomplishments, but this still surprises me for some reason.

then again, that is my opinion..

The only thing surprising me is Woodrow Wilson doing so poorly. He was a great president.

Nixon? um... lol?

As properly understood, the prsident's primary responsibity is foreign relations. Nixon excelled at this beyond any president since T. Roosevelt.
Wilson - No - brought us WWII. Plus he set up the "imperial presidency"
FDR - sucked us into the cold war by his stupid policies re Stalin. And that's not to mention the continued socialist policies.
JFK - sucked us further into the cold war, and effing mud-sucked us into a stupid and seriously damaging war in SE Asia.
LBJ - GD EVIL SOB!!!!!

RWR - well, he managed to pick the right advisors...
Clinton and Bush jr. - nowhere near the same class.......

Nixon did a hell of a damned good job.

As properly understood, the prsident's primary responsibity is foreign relations. No it isn't.

Wilson - No - brought us WWII.Later winning the Nobel peace prize in 1920.

FDR - sucked us into the cold war by his stupid policies re Stalin. And that's not to mention the continued socialist policies.FDR was the greatest thing that ever happened to the USA. Without his leadership the great depression would've lasted much much longer.

Nixon did a hell of a damned good job.Watergate? Failure to control J. Edgar Hoover? Being mobbed by crowds in South America?

Then why were the British considering coming to our aid?

Do you really need me to name the hundreds of times Britain, the US, or any other government has back an insurgency?
And, what do you mean by aid? They sent no troops. They merely kept trading with you. Not a big stretch, as they really needed cotton and the other staple crops of the American South. They didn't even create an Ambassador to the CSA, nor sign any treaties of note.

And Davis becoming president on short notice wasn't exactly a crime or anything. If I were trying to secede, going through all the political jargon wouldn't exactly be my top priority.

So you're all of an illegal government. Lovely. Even under the Articles of Confederation during the American Revolution there was still a vote.

And based upon the research I've been doing, it's largely assumed that we (the C.S.A.) are still an actual country in occupation from U.S. forces, only problem is that we can't exactly raise a militia now can we?

:rolleyes: Dude, the CSA surrendered. The CSA is no more a country than Imperial Japan, Nazi Germany, or South Viet Nam.

Oh, and we did have a Constitution and a Declaration of Independence much as the U.S.A. did when we seceded from Great Britain.

Right. Except for the minor detail that you LOST your war of Independence against the Union.

The American Constitution at that time did not mention anything about states not being able to secede and therefore it was legal for those eleven states to do so. Once again, just like in 1776.

It also doesn't mention that a state can't possess nuclear arms for it's own use. So?
The question of succession was decided BY the Civil War. If it was legal or not is moot: it's NOT legal now.
The states tried to sucede. Fine. They lost and surrendered. Fine. IT'S OVER.

Not on the list:

John Adams.

He was pretty unpopular...

FDR was the man.

It also doesn't mention that a state can't possess nuclear arms for it's own use. So?
The question of succession was decided BY the Civil War. If it was legal or not is moot: it's NOT legal now.
The states tried to sucede. Fine. They lost and surrendered. Fine. IT'S OVER.

And I'm pretty sure that 299,999,998 Americans agree with you, including me.

Oh, and another thing. I was curious why those of you who voted on my poll voted for Reagan? I'd love some sort of explanation what makes him the greatest president, even greater than people like Lincoln, who kept the nation together, and freed the slaves, or people like FDR, who made America an industrial power, led our nation in the most destructive war in history, and initiated programs and laws to alleviate the suffering of the Great Depression? Anyways, I'd like to hear what makes Reagan the greatest.

No it isn't.

Sorry. Try a real argument. "No, it isn't" may work well in the school yard, but not in a debate.

The presidency is the primary branch that conducts foreign affairs. The primary constitutional powers granted to the president (Commander in Cheif of the armed forces, treaties, the appointment of ambassadors) rreflect this. The president was granted other powers and responsibilities, but most of them were designed as checks on the legislative and judicial branches.

The slowly but constant exceeding of constitutional authority is an ongoing problem in the US government. Executive orders are a particularly agreevious example of this power creep. The Executive Office of the President, who's appointees are not subject to the "advise and consent" of the Senate and thus not accountable accountable to congress, are another example.

Wilson - No - brought us WWII.
Later winning the Nobel peace prize in 1920. [/quote]

:confused: WWII happened before 1920? Not according to any history books I've ever read.

The Treaty of Versailles and the weak League of Nations were two of the main causes of WWII (along with the Great Depression - more on which later).
Bothe were Wilson's babies.

The Federal Reserve System (another unconstitutional usurpation of power) and the institutionalism of segregation in the federal government are also stains on Wilson.

FDR was the greatest thing that ever happened to the USA. Without his leadership the great depression would've lasted much much longer.

Incorrect.
Hoover's policies had the US on the road to recovery. FDR's policies squashed the nacient recovery and prolonged the depression.


How FDR Prolonged the Great Depression. (http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:_k8q_Lo2xxEJ:www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/v25n4/powell.pdf+FDR+depression+prolonged&hl=en)
FDR Responsible for Prolonging - Not Ending - Great Depression, Say UCLA Researchers
(http://www.econ.ucla.edu/whatsbruin/news/FDRarticle.htm)

Watergate? Failure to control J. Edgar Hoover? Being mobbed by crowds in South America?

Watergate - yes, it was bad. But was it really any worse than the corrupt election rigging practiced by JFK, FDR, Reagan, or GWBush?

Hoover was around a long time before Nixon. And it is notable that the FBI under Hoover was in some respects quite a good guy. There were certainly abuses and mistakes, but not on the level of Louis Freeh, for example.

As for the last one? Facing down an angry mob with composure is hardly a fault.

I'd like to hear what makes you think FDR made us into an industrial power? We had been an industrial power for some time when he came along.

Wrong... it was "Charlie" that got you out of Vietnam.

As for my picks...
FDR is the greatest.
I also like Woodrow Wilson, Bill Clinton and Abraham Lincoln.

p.s. Commenting a presidents personal life is for talk shows and magazine columnists. :rolleyes:

Quit being a ****ing idiot. You know damned well what was being said.

Second, FDR was not the greatest. He was a power hungry fool that even tried to get 18 judges in the supreme court to override the fact that the judges weren't his rubber stamping agency and also went against the precedent created by George Washington saying a president should not have so many terms. The guy's ambition was dangerous. He was far from the greatest. You being Canadian however would explain your ignorance on both subjects.

The only thing surprising me is Woodrow Wilson doing so poorly. He was a great president.

He got us in WW1. Can't say that was exactly a good thing. It set up the scenario for Hitler to rise to power. Its kind of an iffy, but I do not blame the guy. He was just to much of an interventionalist.

As properly understood, the prsident's primary responsibity is foreign relations. Nixon excelled at this beyond any president since T. Roosevelt.
Wilson - No - brought us WWII. Plus he set up the "imperial presidency"
FDR - sucked us into the cold war by his stupid policies re Stalin. And that's not to mention the continued socialist policies.
JFK - sucked us further into the cold war, and effing mud-sucked us into a stupid and seriously damaging war in SE Asia.
LBJ - GD EVIL SOB!!!!!

RWR - well, he managed to pick the right advisors...
Clinton and Bush jr. - nowhere near the same class.......

Nixon did a hell of a damned good job.

He didn't excell in foriegn relations. Why? 'Nam. Your argument is undone.

Your claim for Wilson has validity.
FDR not so much as with Truman. Unless you wish to detail some specifics I don't know of.
JFK - Yeah. I agree.
LBJ - Yeah, but I give him credit for stepping down and recommending to the people to not vote for his party. That kind of redeems his honor. Plus, you forget ****ing MacNamura was the biggest fault.

So you're all of an illegal government. Lovely. Even under the Articles of Confederation during the American Revolution there was still a vote.

Right. Except for the minor detail that you LOST your war of Independence against the Union.

The question of succession was decided BY the Civil War. If it was legal or not is moot: it's NOT legal now.
The states tried to sucede. Fine. They lost and surrendered. Fine. IT'S OVER.

I can't even believe that idiot is from Texas. South Carolina, Alabama, Georgia.. and other idiotic regions is one thing. But I can't believe this **** actually is from Texas. In Texas, we had an agreement that we could become an independent Republic again when we joined. I wouldn't mind that, but be part of those racist hicks is something entirely different. Plus, the Union was right. The confederate jackasses were trying to undo everything that the American founding fathers fought for.

I can't even believe that idiot is from Texas. South Carolina, Alabama, Georgia.. and other idiotic regions is one thing. But I can't believe this **** actually is from Texas. In Texas, we had an agreement that we could become an independent Republic again when we joined. I wouldn't mind that, but be part of those racist hicks is something entirely different. Plus, the Union was right. The confederate jackasses were trying to undo everything that the American founding fathers fought for.

I find it just sad in general the stupidity of the people who live in the South and the Midwest. It is also upsetting when I see "conservatives" or people who are supposedly of such a political orientation talking about loyalty to the United States, and an almost sexual-fixation on the right to bear arms, yet tote around flags and symbols of the Confederacy, a country that believed in enslaving a race. Sounds like doublethink.

Doubleplus ungood.

I'd like to hear what makes you think FDR made us into an industrial power? We had been an industrial power for some time when he came along.

I believe his initiatives to regulate business benefited the economy by providing the stability needed to recover and progress. He didn't develop American industry, but he helped it.

Making such broad generalizations as to say that all people in the South and Midwest are idiots really helps out your argument :rolleyes:

I believe his initiatives to regulate business benefited the economy by providing the stability needed to recover and progress. He didn't develop American industry, but he helped it.

I'll agree with you that FDR helped to alleviate the hardships and struggles felt by America during the Great Depression, but World War II was what was responsible for saving American industry, not FDR.

Where's Madison? His input on our most important documnet was so big he's known as "the father of the constitution."

You also missed William Henery Harrison. He taught us all an important lesson on why you should wrap up on a cold rainy day. (If you don't understand read up on the wonderful presidency of W.H. Harrison!)

you forgot jesus.......duh

Making such broad generalizations as to say that all people in the South and Midwest are idiots really helps out your argument :rolleyes:

Do you have anything constructive to say besides point out human frustration? I'm going to consider what you said to be a smart-ass quip.

Not on the list:

John Adams.

He was a good man before his presidency, but the Alien and Sedition Act, well now, that was the Patriot Act of the day, and it was quite abused (as I recall).

If we’re talking about just the quality of the person, I’ve always thought Jefferson was the most intelligent of the bunch. A writer, architect, philosopher, botanist, founder of UVA, he was quite the Renaissance man.

Yes he owned slaves, but as president he banned the international slave trade into the US, which I think was a good thing.

But I still go with Teddy, and Lincoln from the list.

He didn't excell in foriegn relations. Why? 'Nam. Your argument is undone.

That war was lost well before Nixon got in office. He did what he could, and then got us the heck out.

Your claim for Wilson has validity.
FDR not so much as with Truman. Unless you wish to detail some specifics I don't know of.
JFK - Yeah. I agree.
LBJ - Yeah, but I give him credit for stepping down and recommending to the people to not vote for his party. That kind of redeems his honor. Plus, you forget ****ing MacNamura was the biggest fault.

Truman wasn't the one who betrayed Eastern Europe at Yalta. And FDR's keeping Truman out of the loop left Truman in a bad spot.

And, yeah, I'll (grudgingly ;)) grant that to LBJ.

I do regret the fact this poll only allows 10 options. I think I would add in Theodore Roosevelt, James Madison, and perhaps Eisenhower, to make the poll a thirteen-option one. Because everyone loves thirteen. Especially pedophiles.

Where's Madison? His input on our most important documnet was so big he's known as "the father of the constitution."

You also missed William Henery Harrison. He taught us all an important lesson on why you should wrap up on a cold rainy day. (If you don't understand read up on the wonderful presidency of W.H. Harrison!)

Good choices both. I'm fairly sure that Harrison is the only president who made no major policy mistakes (unless you count "don't wear a coat" as a major policy ;)).

Do you have anything constructive to say besides point out human frustration? I'm going to consider what you said to be a smart-ass quip.
Well, personally I'd rate that as constructive seeing as it's a suggestion to quit with the offensive remarks, but that's just me. I'm from the South and most of my family lives there; I certainly wouldn't call them idiots and it's somewhat offensive that you did without ever having met them. Stepping off the soapbox I got your point and I was mostly just giving you a hard time, but watch it!

I think I would add in Theodore Roosevelt, James Madison, and perhaps Eisenhower, to make the poll a thirteen-option one.

Nice picks, though it was a little touch and go there for a while with Madison during the War of 1812.

I do regret the fact this poll only allows 10 options. I think I would add in Theodore Roosevelt, James Madison, and perhaps Eisenhower, to make the poll a thirteen-option one. Because everyone loves thirteen. Especially pedophiles.

Ike was a fine general, but as president he started a few too many puppet governments for my liking. Using the CIA to helpt the Shah, not a good option.

Actually, I voted FDR, although, really, I have a tie between FDR and TR. And in a very close second, TJ.

I think the Roosevelts BOTH cared about the common man, the worker...the consumer, the little guy.

TR proved it by being The Trustbuster. FDR proved it by The New Deal. they actually gave a shit about the common man, and they realized that, without the cooperation of the common man, the entire country, capitalism, and everything, the entire machine, would go bye-bye, and there would be massive revolt and revolution, and it wouldn't be pretty, either.

These men both realized this...and so they both did something to better the lot of the common man. I think our politicians today have forgotten. and how long will we continue to stand for the status quo of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer? How much longer will the american worker tolerate getting crapped on before, as one, we rise to FORCE the capitalist robber barons to give us a better deal?

Thomas Jefferson I admire greatly, because he was a scholar, a wise man, and a good President. He was a diplomat, a statesman, and a scholar. Plus, he's the author of one of the books my church holds as a sacred text. We call it The Jefferson Bible. The actual title is "The Life And Times Of Jesus Of Nazareth." In this book, Jefferson, a scholar fluent in six different languages, sought out the oldest texts he could find, and attempted to condense the four Gospels into one narrative, clear up some minor discrepancies between them, omitted the miracles, and concentrated, instead, on the TEACHINGS of Jesus. I recommend reading this text.

You REALLY wanna know "What Would Jesus Do??" Read The Jefferson Bible, and ye shall know.

So, my vote went to FDR, even though TJ is also on the list. But I'd have to say that FDR, TR, and TJ were all in my list of the top five Presidentrs of all time.

When I think of a great president, I think of Regan. Bad presidents, Clinton and Carter come to mind.

Regan was the best president we ever had, hands down. He pumped money into the military. In turn, the Russians had to keep up, but they couldn't and that led to the breakup of the Soviet Union. He was a tough, no bullshit type of guy. Without him, we'd probably still be in the Cold war.

Clinton was the worst ever because of his pussy like tactics in the face of terrorism. By not fighting these people as soon as they attacked us, they got the balls to do more and more. He was too busy getting his dick sucked and then lying about it to deal with the terrorist scum.

George W. Bush got 2.78% of the votes.

OOOoooooooo BURN!!!

I voted for JFK

My vote is for John Kennedy. Who knows what he could have accomplished if he hadn't been assasinated.
I will give Ronald Reagan one good mention though, even though I feel he was too conservative in his views. He did give the US it's present kick of self-worth and can-do attitude after the duldrums of the Viet Nam War.

When I think of a great president, I think of Regan. Bad presidents, Clinton and Carter come to mind.

Regan was the best president we ever had, hands down. He pumped money into the military. In turn, the Russians had to keep up, but they couldn't and that led to the breakup of the Soviet Union. He was a tough, no bullshit type of guy. Without him, we'd probably still be in the Cold war.

Clinton was the worst ever because of his pussy like tactics in the face of terrorism. By not fighting these people as soon as they attacked us, they got the balls to do more and more. He was too busy getting his dick sucked and then lying about it to deal with the terrorist scum.

I'm going to help you on something. His name is "Reagan". But besides that, I thought of other things you said in this post. You gave two reasons for why Reagan is the best president. You said he "pumped money into the military", and "the breakup of the Soviet Union". Interesting, considering each American president has approved funds for the military. I see nothing significant about this. Perhaps you could say it was because of the "star wars" program begun under Reagan? But we all know what happened to that program. Perhaps the last arms race? Thing is, the Russians have more nuclear missiles than us, so it couldn't be the arms race. The breakup of the Soviet Union was not due to Reagan. It was a slow and gradual process, a decay in their centralized and planned economy, and inefficiencies on a mass scale in their bureaucracy.

Clinton the worst ever? Do you ignore the fact that the American economy expanded the greatest in our history? Or the fact that 23 million jobs were created? I guess so. And as for the Oval Office oral, who cares? Why fixate on Clinton's private sex life, leave it to Hilary to slap the shit out of him. When Clinton invades a country under false pretences, alienating an already alienated international community, then Clinton will be the worst in history. Oh wait, wrong President! :)

On a serious note though, I'd appreciate a serious pro-Reagan post that makes sense. :rolleyes:

Ugh. If there's one president I can't stand hearing people praise, it's Reagan. At least it's more obvious with Dubbya lovers that they have head trauma.

About Clinton:
When US interests were attacked he did take it seriously. It was at the top of his international security agenda, he just took a different approach, going instead for the consolidation of peace in the middle east and so on.

When Bush Jr took office, at the top of his stack on the desk was terrorism, as it had been with Clinton. But instead, Bush didn't take that seriously and instead went for tax cuts, religious things and so on.

Only after 11.9.2001 did he take it seriously, and even then the best he could come up with is "How about we bomb them? Maybe they'll stop bombing us then!"

Clinton the worst ever? Do you ignore the fact that the American economy expanded the greatest in our history? Or the fact that 23 million jobs were created? I guess so.

Clinton's "success" economically wasn't actually Clinton's, in the words of another on these forums (I don't remember who so don't ask) he was dealt a hand of spades as far as the economy was concerned and the 90's would have been a period of economic growth for America whether or not Clinton was in office.

Economic growth is heavily intertwined with government activities on trade treaties, trade statuses, and levels of regulation. There is no way to prove that without Clinton the economy would have grown as much as it did, because it would be unsubstantiated speculation. If you'd like, do a search on Clinton trade policies and initiatives. In any case, he understood the economy better than Bush Junior, who was an oil executive of his father's business. Doesn't that mean Bush proved he didn't learn anything from his career?

Hey don't get me wrong, I never said Bush Jr. was an economic genius or anything, I simply said you overrated Clinton. I'll give you that Clinton's policies may have helped out the economy, but that's a far cry from giving the man credit for creating 23,000,000 jobs.

In any case, he understood the economy better than Bush Junior, who was an oil executive of his father's business. Doesn't that mean Bush proved he didn't learn anything from his career?
And after he worked a bit for daddy, he started his own oil business (one of the investors was the Bin Laden family...) and managed to run that into the ground.
Then someone nice organised a seat on the board of some Baseball team for him, where he didn't have to make any decisions and couldn't do anything wrong. He still managed to use state funding to build his new stadium though...

When I think of a great president, I think of Regan. Bad presidents, Clinton and Carter come to mind.

Regan was the best president we ever had, hands down. blah blah here's more ignorant crap.

Keep in mind this fool's knowledge in American history probably doesn't go past WW2.

Hey don't get me wrong, I never said Bush Jr. was an economic genius or anything, I simply said you overrated Clinton. I'll give you that Clinton's policies may have helped out the economy, but that's a far cry from giving the man credit for creating 23,000,000 jobs.

That's true, but don't forget his also incredible track record with domestic policies: e.g. civil rights, environment, poverty, etc.

Which was exactly my point. I didn't vote for Clinton though on my poll :rolleyes:

I feel awfull that I probably won't be able to respond to every one. In particular those who have insulted me personally for having a different opinion. :rolleyes:

Basically I just have enough time today to make sure this great joke doesn't get left behind.
Hoover was around a long time before Nixon. And it is notable that the FBI under Hoover was in some respects quite a good guy.LOL

As for the last one? Facing down an angry mob with composure is hardly a fault.I'm just guessing here but maybe the fact he was being mobbed was in fact the problem. :D

I find it just sad in general the stupidity of the people who live in the South and the Midwest. It is also upsetting when I see "conservatives" or people who are supposedly of such a political orientation talking about loyalty to the United States, and an almost sexual-fixation on the right to bear arms, yet tote around flags and symbols of the Confederacy, a country that believed in enslaving a race. Sounds like doublethink.

Doubleplus ungood.


well said, seems you have read 1984 from George Orwell like me

Doubleplus Good, Comrade :)

well said, seems you have read 1984 from George Orwell like me

Doubleplus Good, Comrade :)
The greatest book I've ever read.

The greatest book I've ever read.

Personally, I liked Animal Farm better. 1984 was probably more important because it was a warning of things to come rather than a lampoon of things already past or currently happening, but Animals Farm was more entertaining.
“Four legs good, two legs bad.”

Animal Farm is great, and the ending image of pigs walking on their hind legs and playing poker and such is simply bone-chilling.

But for me 1984's love vs the state theme along with the tipical Orwelian political message was his masterpiece and my fave.

I'm glad some people enjoyed Orwell. Both books were great critiques on the potential of realistic communism, and both contributed to world literature.

I think you have the main issue of 1984 wrong. You said "love vs the state", when really it was "humanity vs the state". Love in the book was portrayed as the strongest, most human feeling, in contrast to hate, encouraged by the Party. And in the end, the Party triumphed.

Taft! ;)

Taft? :rolleyes:

George W. Bush, Jr. -- who is that? ;)

(His father was George H.W. Bush, so there is no "Jr." involved.)

I also wouldn't put either Bush, Clinton or Reagan on the list, since they're all alive except Reagan, whom died rather recently...

Junior is used to denote a status of continuation.

[QUOTE=Swimmingpool]


He killed almost 1,000,000 people in Sudan and Iraq!

QUOTE]

Oh ok, so it's alright if GWB kills more? Riight! Oh and Clinton didn't do it for some stupid ass cause. He did it for America. And two, Clinton's success overshadows his MISTAKES(Monica). In my opinion Clinton was the best for his trillion+ surplus that he left for GWB to screw up in the end.

And two, Jimmy Carter tried and tried to get stuff done in office. But did he do anything? Hell no. He made us look like idiots! He sided with the Egyptians making everyone else hate us. Making OPEC further it's embargo on us. Damn he was such a good president too! ;)

Here are my choices.
1. Clinton
2. Harry Truman
3. Ronald Reagan
4. George Washington

Interesting choices. And ignore SwimmingPool's comments, as I already asked him to provide a link to prove that silly little claim of his.

I find it just sad in general the stupidity of the people who live in the South and the Midwest. It is also upsetting when I see "conservatives" or people who are supposedly of such a political orientation talking about loyalty to the United States, and an almost sexual-fixation on the right to bear arms, yet tote around flags and symbols of the Confederacy, a country that believed in enslaving a race. Sounds like doublethink.

Doubleplus ungood.


Dude, do you realize you just put down a whole region of people? While you cry about conservatives, they're the dominant party in America. Hell I bet the state that you live in is mostly conservative. Hell I bet your parents/guardian are conservatives. So I guess you just put down your parents, or someone that is your friend. You just called them an idiot! Let's give this poor guy a round of applause! :D

Junior is used to denote a status of continuation.

Not when there are different names. ;)

For one, in Germany, the dominant part was once the Nazi Party. You have no right to assume things about me, it comes across as flamebaiting. Refer to my post regarding what I meant on the previous message.

Not when there are different names. ;)

Consider the context.

FDR, Reagan, and Clinton are leading.
Excuse me while I vomit.
The last good president we had was JFK. And the greatest President has to be either Washington or Lincoln, as they defined how our nation would end up today, without becoming dictators (and the option was possible for both)

For one, in Germany, the dominant part was once the Nazi Party. You have no right to assume things about me, it comes across as flamebaiting. Refer to my post regarding what I meant on the previous message.

So I was flamebaiting for assuming things? I was kidding, calm down. But you were also flaming on those southerners and what not. So...let's not go there. You have different ideals, I have different ideals.


Also, in my choices I forgot something. I put Woodrow instead of Washington.

They aren't ideals, I clearly said I was frustrated with pro-Confederate right-wingers. The way you assumed things about me, Raymuna, and worded your insults, was pretty flammatory to me. I wouldn't post something and accuse people of having such-and-such parents and accuse them of calling them idiots in the way I say things. It was completely unnecessary, and I think you should apologize.

Junior is used to denote a status of continuation.

Right. Except that the current President doesn't have a son.

Quoting Markreich
Right. Except that the current President doesn't have a son.

How does that have anything to do with the way I connected the current Bush to the previous President Bush?

I for one feel that former CIA directors should never be eligible to run for president.

I for one feel that former CIA directors should never be eligible to run for president.

Thankfully, you're a foreigner, and your opinions on that subject don't matter. :D

How does that have anything to do with the way I connected the current Bush to the previous President Bush?

Because the current President Bush is *not* a Jr. They do not share the same name.

I can't imagine you being serious on this Markreich, because if you read what I wrote, and thought a moment about my context, you would understand. I'll just assume you're making a silly joke without any humorous content.

Thankfully, you're a foreigner, and your opinions on that subject don't matter. :DYes but unfortunatly what some Americans don't seem to understand is that what goes on in America affects the entire planet wether we have a say in it or not.

Lincoln
He rules
All you softcocks goths and angsty people, he had depression with no antidepressants, and still became one of the greatest politicians to ever live.
Freeing the slaves was a masterstroke of politics because he had to time it right or lose the neutral/boundary states.
Plus he was one of the greatest speaker in history.

Guy "Yes and he called you a damn fool"
Lincoln "If he said that it must be true, for he is seldom wrong. I'll drop by and see him"

Yes but unfortunatly what some Americans don't seem to understand is that what goes on in America affects the entire planet wether we have a say in it or not.

Oh, that's true. But it is of secondary importance.

And, if you want a say in who elects our President, we're all for it. Just file for statehood.

I can't imagine you being serious on this Markreich, because if you read what I wrote, and thought a moment about my context, you would understand. I'll just assume you're making a silly joke without any humorous content.

Dude, I'm on about the name. The current Prez is *not* a "Jr.". If he had a SON by the same name, and somehow he was elected Prez, then fine.

Otherwise, you may as well call Bill Clinton "Mack Clinton" -- but it's still not his name.

Lincoln
He rules
All you softcocks goths and angsty people, he had depression with no antidepressants, and still became one of the greatest politicians to ever live.
Freeing the slaves was a masterstroke of politics because he had to time it right or lose the neutral/boundary states.
Plus he was one of the greatest speaker in history.

Guy "Yes and he called you a damn fool"
Lincoln "If he said that it must be true, for he is seldom wrong. I'll drop by and see him"
Depressions depend on a lot more than just character strength. It's really misguided to claim everyone reacts the same to it. Getting over a depression without anti-depressants has less to do with strength than you might think.

My favorite was Chester A. Arthur, because no-one's ever heard of him and he really did nothing of note. :D


Seriously now? I like ol' Abe, because he had a sense of humor. Also, he was the only one who accepted my obvious superiority (in private of course, otherwise he would have looked crazy), although I suspect he was being funny. :(

My favorite was Chester A. Arthur, because no-one's ever heard of him and he really did nothing of note. :D

...
President Arthur did one thing that was very important for the US -- he reformed the civil service system.

President Arthur did one thing that was very important for the US -- he reformed the civil service system.True; I'd forgotten that.

I was making a joke though.... :D

I feel awfull that I probably won't be able to respond to every one. In particular those who have insulted me personally for having a different opinion. :rolleyes:
Basically I just have enough time today to make sure this great joke doesn't get left behind. LOL

This as a reply to my post, is a nasty and sly ad hominem attack. It does you no good. An actual response to the argument would be respected. As it stands, your response is at best irrelevent, and at worst a borderline flame. Do you have any constructive comment at all? Can you provide any counter? If so why haven't you?

J. Edgar Hoover was the most abusive, corrupt and tyrannical person of 20th century American history. To say or imply otherwise (which you did) is a joke. I mean no personal harm to you when I say this.

They aren't ideals, I clearly said I was frustrated with pro-Confederate right-wingers. The way you assumed things about me, Raymuna, and worded your insults, was pretty flammatory to me. I wouldn't post something and accuse people of having such-and-such parents and accuse them of calling them idiots in the way I say things. It was completely unnecessary, and I think you should apologize.

Oh so you can call midwesterners and southerners "conservative idiots". Right! While I joke around, and point something out to you. I wasn't "insulting" you, I was poking a joke. Just like your GWB joke with him being a junior. I have a lot of friends that are pro-Bush, and pro-confederate. But do you know what I do when they talk about Bush? OH WAIT! Something that most people don't do these days, I IGNORE THEM. Like most "conservative idiots" have been doing to you. And your calling the southerners idiots was unnecessary, and I think YOU should apologize to them.

J. Edgar Hoover was the most abusive, corrupt and tyrannical person of 20th century American history. To say or imply otherwise (which you did) is a joke. I mean no personal harm to you when I say this.

I agree, Hoover was an asshole.

J. Edgar Hoover was the most abusive, corrupt and tyrannical person of 20th century American history. To say or imply otherwise (which you did) is a joke. I mean no personal harm to you when I say this.

Ever hear of Governor Huey Long of Louisiana? Makes Hoover look like... well, at least like JFK.

Ever hear of Governor Huey Long of Louisiana? Makes Hoover look like... well, at least like JFK.Spare me. Huey Long was a nasty SOB but his power never exceeded his state or being a senate filibuster.

Hoover had tyrannical power over and access to, people's lives. Worst of all he did it quietly from the throne of the FBI where he was not subject to open elections as was Mr. Long. The sheer duration of Hoover's career renders Long an insignificant asterisk.

Teddy Roosevelt. Caring young gentleman. First to set aside land for national parks.

Spare me. Huey Long was a nasty SOB but his power never exceeded his state or being a senate filibuster.

Hoover had tyrannical power over and access to, people's lives. Worst of all he did it quietly from the throne of the FBI where he was not subject to open elections as was Mr. Long. The sheer duration of Hoover's career renders Long an insignificant asterisk.

Only because he was assassinated before he could run for national office...

Interesting factoid though about Herbert Hoover: he was a quaker. :p

Only because he was assassinated before he could run for national office...I don't judge politicians on hypothetical situations.

J. Edgar Hoover was the most abusive, corrupt and tyrannical person of 20th century American history.

No, what I said was this:

Hoover was around a long time before Nixon. And it is notable that the FBI under Hoover was in some respects quite a good guy. There were certainly abuses and mistakes, but not on the level of Louis Freeh, for example.

To recap:
1) Hoover was not the stain on Nixon you claim, because the bulk of his career was was carried out prior to the Nixon administration. (Hoover became the director of the FBI in 1924, wll before Nixon came to office.)

2) Hoover was in some respects a good guy. He built the FBI. Under his tenure, the FBI saw few scandals. Under Hoover the FBI did it's job. Recent directors, Freeh for example, have proven to be unreliab;e or even downright incompetent (bringing us shameful episodes like Ruby Ridge and Waco, and Wen Ho Lee). He was abusive, but at least his incompetence didn't help cause a 9/11.

To say or imply otherwise (which you did) is a joke.

And to answer thusly is still abusive. To suggest that you consider my position and myself to be jokes, and then indicate that you are laughing is not acceptable debate technique. Do you have anything of substance to bring to this discussion?

2) Hoover was in some respects a good guy. He built the FBI. Under his tenure, the FBI saw few scandals. Under Hoover the FBI did it's job. (...)
Do you have anything of substance to bring to this discussion?Yes... one word will suffice...

Mafia.

Hoover's disturbing apathy towards the concept of jailing gangsters if one example on how the FBI under his tenure did not do it's job. If J. Edgar Hoover is some sort of personal hero of yours I frankly don't care. For me J. Edgar Hoover will always stand for corrupt men who abuse their powers.

My favorite President was Mr. Lincoln. However, the most visionary president was by far Mr. Washington. He envisioned the two party-system of governement as the possible downfall of a representative form of government, and he sure was right! There are no congressmen who vote or even poll their constituency these days.
For all those FDR fans, remember that he and Churchill sold over a billion people into communism at Yalta and Teheran in their meetings with Stalin.

For all those FDR fans, remember that he and Churchill sold over a billion people into communism at Yalta and Teheran in their meetings with Stalin.That was inevitable. Stalin had plenty of faults but he was an uncompromising negotiator. As for Washington he didn't sell people to communism. He had them working in his fields as slaves. Washington was a great man but nobody is perfect.

I voted Jfk. I like him #2 My fave is the first Bush!
George H. Bush

Problem with the "FDR and Churchill selling over a billion people into communism" is that the Soviets were advancing through Eastern Europe as it was, and the Western Allies couldn't stop them. Certainly if FDR and Churchill said "Stalin, you big bad boy, no more Slavic slaves for you", Stalin wouldn't have cared. FDR and Churchill couldn't have done a damn thing to stop him.

FDR and Churchill couldn't have done a damn thing to stop him.No kidding. I mean... what they hell were they supposed to say? No... you can't have these territories and nations because your ideology stinks?

Taft? :rolleyes:

Got a problem with that? :upyours:

Dear god! Reagan is in second place??? When did the conservatives decide to crawl out of their maggot-infested Corporate Police States and into General? :confused:

FDR:
He did something about the depression. His policies indirectly solved it by giving the people hope and trust in the economy.
He had America prepared for a massive war he knew we would be forced into.
He led the US through WWII. Not an easy task when you have a genocidal maniac on one front and people trained to fight to the death for the deaths of everyone else on the other.

FDR:
He did something about the depression. His policies indirectly solved it by giving the people hope and trust in the economy.Correction... If it weren't for him America would not be what it is today. His policies directly solved the depression.

FDR:
He did something about the depression. His policies indirectly solved it by giving the people hope and trust in the economy.

He had America prepared for a massive war he knew we would be forced into.
He led the US through WWII. Not an easy task when you have a genocidal maniac on one front and people trained to fight to the death for the deaths of everyone else on the other.

Er... his New Deals (yes, there were two of them!) kept the Depression at bay more in the US more than in Europe. However, it was WW2 production that ended the Depression. I do give him full marks for rebuilding the banking system though.

Is that why our military was about the size of Denmark's and we had our guys training with wooden machine guns and with trucks with "TANK" painted on tarps thrown over them? Sorry, no dice. We were most assuredly NOT prepared for WW2. Did we ramp up in a short time? Yes... by 1943...

Don't get me wrong; I like FDR, he was better than most. But let's not inflate him too much, eh? ;)