NationStates Jolt Archive

hi...im new to the game and am not that fimiliar with the way the forums work so please bear with me here. but i just wanted to ask your opinion on how God, a supreme being, a form "higher" then humanity works. To me...the thought of a creator-god (or any for that matter) makes absolutely no sense.

How can people think that some large, supreme being, just one day thought "hey why dont i make a universe today?".

If you look at history, the only reason to create a supreme being, a god, is to aviod thought. Take the romans, they didnt know how love worked. BOOM! Cupid controls it. They didnt know how the earth stayed up. BOOM Atlas holds it up. We dont know how the earth came to be (yet) BOOM God! I think that the only thing keeping humans from completely destroying any reason to have religion is finding out how life began on earth and how earth began to be a planet. We will eventually find out how these occurances actually happened. As we speak religion is loosing ground steadily. First, evolution began being taught, revealing just how idiotic the idea of creationism is especially with the mounds of scientific evidence compared to a simple book (Bible). Tell me...why is there any reason to believe in these things anymore. They will all eventually be found to be unture by science. Religion will die.

Might I direct you to a helpful thread, then? http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=431666

As to your question. I do believe in deities, but not a single omnipotent one. However, I also believe that deities are too easily used to explain away things that're "incomprehensible" and forever "unknowable for mere mortals". Science may never fully explain everything, but I think one day, it'll come rather close, negating a large portion of the "need" for people to worship/believe in creation deities.

Religious people use the argument that "God works in mysterious ways" or something of the kind. But really that's <expletive>. You're right; that's the main reason we have gods and goddesses. Pointless, in my opinion.

By the way, welcome to the forums! (LGD has already directed you to our collaboration effort...someone should sticky it IMNSHO, so we don't have to keep bumping the thing.)

hi...im new to the game and am not that fimiliar with the way the forums work so please bear with me here. but i just wanted to ask your opinion on how God, a supreme being, a form "higher" then humanity works. To me...the thought of a creator-god (or any for that matter) makes absolutely no sense.

How can people think that some large, supreme being, just one day thought "hey why dont i make a universe today?".

If you look at history, the only reason to create a supreme being, a god, is to aviod thought. Take the romans, they didnt know how love worked. BOOM! Cupid controls it. They didnt know how the earth stayed up. BOOM Atlas holds it up. We dont know how the earth came to be (yet) BOOM God! I think that the only thing keeping humans from completely destroying any reason to have religion is finding out how life began on earth and how earth began to be a planet. We will eventually find out how these occurances actually happened. As we speak religion is loosing ground steadily. First, evolution began being taught, revealing just how idiotic the idea of creationism is especially with the mounds of scientific evidence compared to a simple book (Bible). Tell me...why is there any reason to believe in these things anymore. They will all eventually be found to be unture by science. Religion will die.


You can't use science to disprove the metaphysical, as it deals only with the physical. Thus, your entire argument about science "killing" religion is invalidated.

You can't use science to disprove the metaphysical, as it deals only with the physical. Thus, your entire argument about science "killing" religion is invalidated.Oh really. Try putting the two together. Can they coexist? Do you, or do you know someone who, believes in both and it works? Explain.

Frankly, science convices me there is a God. The sheer wonder of the universe is so vast and unexplainable that I can't think of another explanation for it. Evolution, the Big Bang, String Theory, all of it seems to point to something in dimensions higher than we neither can nor will discover.

In the end, however, that's only my personal faith.

Oh really. Try putting the two together. Can they coexist? Do you, or do you know someone who, believes in both and it works? Explain.



A good majority of scientists believe in the metaphysical. I can't remember where I read it, so you can say I have no source if you so desire.

I'm a believer of both science and God. I mean really, nothing came out of nowhere. Something or someONE must've started all this. A little bit of God, a little bit of science, and thus we have the universe as we know it. w00t.

EDIT: Topic creator, not a good way to start a thread nor a reputation stating that religon will die and implying that your opinion is right and everyone else is completely wrong.

You can't use science to disprove the metaphysical, as it deals only with the physical. Thus, your entire argument about science "killing" religion is invalidated.

It doesn't kill religion per se, but when The Good Book says that God made the sun go backwards in the sky, and science says that would have torn the earth apart, it does invalidate The Good Book.

Personally, I am a strong believer in God, because I am a very strong believer in an objective, unified, perfect morality, and that morality doesn't make sense unless an infinitely wise being created it (basically, Kant's Moral Argument for the Existence of God). But that doesn't mean that I believe in the God as shown in Genesis. I tend to think that a lot of things in the Old Testament were simply misattributed to God when he really had nothing to do with them.

A good majority of scientists believe in the metaphysical. I can't remember where I read it, so you can say I have no source if you so desire.That's ok, I don't remember where I read a lot of things (and I can't be bothered to look them up, either. lol)

It doesn't kill religion per se, but when The Good Book says that God made the sun go backwards in the sky, and science says that would have torn the earth apart, it does invalidate The Good Book.


The sun cant go backwards to begin with. Thats why its a miracle because without God it isnt possible. Science has not revealed anything more about this occurence than what we've always known (without God it could never happen).

I saw this on the sidebar of my country screen and read through it, thought I'd add my thoughts

I believe that God and Science go very well hand in hand
I'm a Roman Catholic, but I'm not extremly religious like some grandmothers out there.
Most of the stories in the Bible are just that, stories, meant to not be taken seriously, but to be interepted(sp?) in different ways.
My belief is that God or some supreme being sparked the beginning of all creation (The Big Bang for example) and hasn't interfered with any part of creation since. Since then, everything has taken the natural (scientific) course, i.e natural selection, evolution, etc.

And even if there isn't a God, I like the idea of there being something there we can ask for help in our darkest times, instead of having that sense that I'm completely alone in my troubles
maybe that's why atheists commit suicide more often :P

Does the idea of God make sense to me? No.

However, I am not keen on assuming I understand other people's viewpoints, so I won't say that it can't make sense.

It doesn't kill religion per se, but when The Good Book says that God made the sun go backwards in the sky, and science says that would have torn the earth apart, it does invalidate The Good Book.

Personally, I am a strong believer in God, because I am a very strong believer in an objective, unified, perfect morality, and that morality doesn't make sense unless an infinitely wise being created it (basically, Kant's Moral Argument for the Existence of God). But that doesn't mean that I believe in the God as shown in Genesis. I tend to think that a lot of things in the Old Testament were simply misattributed to God when he really had nothing to do with them.



Well, He could have made the earth reverse its orbit temporarily. Also, an omnipotent Being does not have to follow the laws of physics regarding matter, so I'm sure He has a way to do it.

I saw this on the sidebar of my country screen and read through it, thought I'd add my thoughts

I believe that God and Science go very well hand in hand
I'm a Roman Catholic, but I'm not extremly religious like some grandmothers out there.
Most of the stories in the Bible are just that, stories, meant to not be taken seriously, but to be interepted(sp?) in different ways.
My belief is that God or some supreme being sparked the beginning of all creation (The Big Bang for example) and hasn't interfered with any part of creation since. Since then, everything has taken the natural (scientific) course, i.e natural selection, evolution, etc.Hmm...You're making sense here. The stories in the Bible that are technically impossible are allegories. In that case, why do so many people take them literally?

I saw this on the sidebar of my country screen and read through it, thought I'd add my thoughts

I believe that God and Science go very well hand in hand
I'm a Roman Catholic, but I'm not extremly religious like some grandmothers out there.
Most of the stories in the Bible are just that, stories, meant to not be taken seriously, but to be interepted(sp?) in different ways.
My belief is that God or some supreme being sparked the beginning of all creation (The Big Bang for example) and hasn't interfered with any part of creation since. Since then, everything has taken the natural (scientific) course, i.e natural selection, evolution, etc.

I see no reason to refute the idea that a supreme being, at the beginning of time, set in motion the events that have brought us to where we are and where we are going. Through causality and the being's infinite nature, it could be that it started one action and understood all of the subsequent reactions, like a child knocking over dominos.

I see no reason to refute the idea that a supreme being, at the beginning of time, set in motion the events that have brought us to where we are and where we are going. Through causality and the being's infinite nature, it could be that it started one action and understood all of the subsequent reactions, like a child knocking over dominos.Yes, but what gets me is the people who claim that God (or another supreme being) didn't set them in motion, he orchestrated them all. That violates the rules of science. Therefore, if you believe God caused everything to happen, can that coexist with science?

Oh, and Neo, who would define the laws of physics for God to break them? If He would, then...do any good leaders ever break their own laws in aught but an emergency?

Oh really. Try putting the two together. Can they coexist? Do you, or do you know someone who, believes in both and it works? Explain.

Sure ... in Islam, Muslims are commanded to study the scientific parts of the Universe. Astronomy, Mathematics, Physics, etc etc are all necessary parts of Islam. Same with Judaism.

Religion and Science have co-existed nicely for a very long time.

Yes, but what gets me is the people who claim that God (or another supreme being) didn't set them in motion, he orchestrated them all. That violates the rules of science. Therefore, if you believe God caused everything to happen, can that coexist with science?

Oh, and Neo, who would define the laws of physics for God to break them? If He would, then...do any good leaders ever break their own laws in aught but an emergency?



I'm sorry, your question is kind of ambiguous to me, could you elaborate?

Yes, but what gets me is the people who claim that God (or another supreme being) didn't set them in motion, he orchestrated them all. That violates the rules of science. Therefore, if you believe God caused everything to happen, can that coexist with science?

Maybe you could look at science as decifering the supreme being's methods.

I'm sorry, your question is kind of ambiguous to me, could you elaborate?It should be very clear. In bold: Who defined the laws of physics? They had to exist, in order to be broken.

It should be very clear. In bold: Who defined the laws of physics? They had to exist, in order to be broken.
You know, technically the laws of physics are still theories. Considering at any point in time it is possible, yet very much improbable, gravity might not let a pencil fall to the Earth. Thus the entire law is proven false. And a law cannot be proven false.

Just being a bugger here.

You know, technically the laws of physics are still theories. Considering at any point in time it is possible, yet very much improbable, gravity might not let a pencil fall to the Earth. Thus the entire law is proven false. And a law cannot be proven false.

Just being a bugger here.Yes. There is no way to 100% prove something. But let's say it's 99.9999....% proven here.

Way to go Colodia! Your first sensible post since, uh, before I got here! :D

Yes. There is no way to 100% prove something. But let's say it's 99.9999....% proven here.

Way to go Colodia! Your first sensible post since, uh, before I got here! :D
:D *waves American flag*

Sadly I didn't even think of that without the help of my Biology teacher pointing that out to the class. :(

:D *waves American flag*

Sadly I didn't even think of that without the help of my Biology teacher pointing that out to the class. :(I knew there was a catch! :(

Oh well. Maybe you'll make another sensible post some other time. Although I seriously doubt it. But you never know. Like the idea of the law of gravity failing to be upheld when a pencil fails to fall to the earth? That sort of thing? :p

It should be very clear. In bold: Who defined the laws of physics? They had to exist, in order to be broken.



Hmm, I don't see the issue here. Yes they existed, and their Creator can break them, so what's the point?

The main idea is that religion was made to keep the people under control and it was also made to give them a sense of hope and or faith. So for every reason that was unexplainable at the time, the people create a deity or a story of their omnipotent god to thus prove that statement. However.....

I still believe that there is a God or an omnipotent force out there. I feel science can find out many things but in the end, the only answer will be God or the omnipotent force. For example, you take two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom. What do they create? Water (duh). But now you have to rebecome your little, inquisitive, curious, and young self and keep asking why. I mean why dont those atoms create a humpback whale? Why does it make water instead of humpback whales? Of course science can prove most of those reasons why, but in the end, the last reason will be the all powerful God! God made everything like it is, he set the rules and the reason, he set the laws and the sciences, he made it so 2+2=4 not 5. He made things the way they are. And that makes sense to me.

Hmm, I don't see the issue here. Yes they existed, and their Creator can break them, so what's the point?God created the laws of physics, right? But he broke them, right? How many modern leaders do you know that break their own laws? Those that do are called dictators and are overthrown by dissenters (King George III, for example). Yet God is very highly regarded (obviously, since 2 billion+ people worship him). Why is this?

I'm a believer of both science and God. I mean really, nothing came out of nowhere. Something or someONE must've started all this. A little bit of God, a little bit of science, and thus we have the universe as we know it. w00t.

The only planet we've inhabited within this "infinately" wide universe is earth. We cannot at all begin to think of how the universe got where it is until we actually SEE some of it. We've probably only seen .000000000000000000001% of it. How can we study .000000000000000000001% of something? Were going to need some more universe until we can start figuring out its beginning. I personally believe science will EVENTUALLY find the way the universe got here. But not until we start to see other parts of the universe. Heck...the universe could be a black spot on some huge beings' finger.

EDIT: Topic creator, not a good way to start a thread nor a reputation stating that religon will die and implying that your opinion is right and everyone else is completely wrong.

Not at all how i meant it

Do I think the idea of a God makes much sense? Hell no.

Do I think the idea of a God is likely? Not a chance.

Am I willing to definantly state that there is no God? No.

But the real question is: "Why does it matter?"

Edit: And Neo... I sincerely doubt that most of the scientific community is religious...

The main idea is that religion was made to keep the people under control and it was also made to give them a sense of hope and or faith. So for every reason that was unexplainable at the time, the people create a deity or a story of their omnipotent god to thus prove that statement. However.....
Those are the results of religion, not the purpose of religion.

The myths of religion are not an early attempt at science. The myths do not describe events in the physical world; they are metaphorical, describing changes and enlightenments that take place in the mind/heart/soul. Noah's Ark is not a boat, but a literary means of conveying humanity to its final destination: salvation through belief.

This is how it makes sense.

Take the romans, they didnt know how love worked. BOOM! Cupid controls it. They didnt know how the earth stayed up.


yeah, um, about that...the premise is sound, sure, but cupid is simply a romanization of a greek demi-god, eros. the romans didn't think it up. in fact, a great deal of ancient roman culture is greek-based.

just a small detail.

yeah, um, about that...the premise is sound, sure, but cupid is simply a romanization of a greek demi-god, eros. the romans didn't think it up. in fact, a great deal of ancient roman culture is greek-based.
And Eutruscian based, and probably a few other isolated cultures as well, that got buried under the giant that was Rome.

bump

someone said. The universe is so amazing and wonderful, then how can it have come to be without someone creating it, everything is created right?

ok, Who, What, When... created God? why dont we worship grandfather god the one who fathered God? from all points of logic and reason, something can not create itself, hell even from a scientific point of view, nothing can appear out of complete nothingness.

So that means if god exists SOMETHING had to have made him, he could not possibly have made himself, and before you say he is forever.. nothing, NOTHING is forever