NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm not a Nazi but I used to play one on NS. Been away from the Nazi regions for a while (lot of "true believers" there who take themselves way too seriously) but just recently in my personal e-mail I got the "Aryan Attack" newsletter, which I have since deleted. Since I wasn't one of a whole bunch of forwarded addresses and I don't know anyone personally of that persuasion, I have to wonder if it has to do with my past life on NS. Or have Aryan/Nazi type groups joined the ranks of the spammers?

I'm not a Nazi but I used to play one on NS. Been away from the Nazi regions for a while (lot of "true believers" there who take themselves way too seriously) but just recently in my personal e-mail I got the "Aryan Attack" newsletter, which I have since deleted. Since I wasn't one of a whole bunch of forwarded addresses and I don't know anyone personally of that persuasion, I have to wonder if it has to do with my past life on NS. Or have Aryan/Nazi type groups joined the ranks of the spammers?

Hate groups have spammed ever since one could spam.

No one ever talks about all of the good the Nazis did. Shame.

No one ever talks about all of the good the Nazis did. Shame.

Feeble bait, I must say. You may end up getting a few less experienced biters, though.

No one ever talks about all of the good the Nazis did. Shame.

The creation of Voltswagen?

I doubt it. He might actually accidentally provoke intellectual discussion. Someone could make a point about nobody discussing the good things communism did, or people might argue that nazis really did have a small number of good affects (e.g. kickstarting the german car industry)

This troll gets

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The creation of Voltswagen?
The Autobahn, you musn't forget the Autobahn.

Every group these days sends some kind of spam, I wouldn't worry about it.

No one ever talks about all of the good the Nazis did. Shame.

That is about as volitile a topic as 'No one ever talks about all of the good the Americans did."

The creation of Voltswagen?
Volkswagen, dammit! :mad: (:p)

Aah, Waffen-SS Ostland, how are ya? :p
Don't know if you remember me, you declared war on me in II, then rethought it when my allies showed up and yours didn't :p
I thought you were an RL nazi, sorry for the misunderstanding, but you were very convincing;)

For someone that isn't a Nazi, you have a pretty misleading name... but that's probably just my post-war German bias...:p

Volkswagen, dammit! :mad: (:p)

same difference ;)

No one ever talks about all of the good the Nazis did. Shame.
Like legal whorehouses where the fun was free? (Lebensborn centres)

Like legal whorehouses where the fun was free? (Lebensborn centres)Only if you were blond and blue eyed, but the fun wasn't the purpose of it...

Only if you were blond and blue eyed, but the fun wasn't the purpose of it...
The world's first mobile sperm banks?

The world's first mobile sperm banks?
The only thing I'd thank the Nazis for is revoking the Treaty of Versailles and proving that it was a big mistake.

Oddly, I feel an immense gratitude towards them when I spot a single, tiny bonehead kid, after a long day of hard work. There's just no better way to relieve stress :D

Sadly, it doesn't happen very often. Usually they're too bloody scared to walk around alone.

I think that either the average IQ on NS has gone down, or people have lowered thier standards for what constitutes as irony and sarcasm. To all of you who got it, bravo! To the rest, well, you keep on reaching for that star! :)

-snip-
Well it is a rather stupid name.
Are you German? Because I am, and
a) you aren't in which case I implore you to find your own racist war criminals to find cool
b) you are and you deserve to be locked up for making my country look stupid.
c) You're just trying to take the piss out of everyone, in which case I look rather stupid...

Well it is a rather stupid name.
Are you German? Because I am, and
a) you aren't in which case I implore you to find your own racist war criminals to find cool
b) you are and you deserve to be locked up for making my country look stupid.
c) You're just trying to take the piss out of everyone, in which case I look rather stupid...

I believe this person was developing a character in the RP section of NS taking the side of the Nazi's. Like in call of duty or some such game. I don't think he realised the effect such a name would have.

Well it is a rather stupid name.
Are you German? Because I am, and
a) you aren't in which case I implore you to find your own racist war criminals to find cool
b) you are and you deserve to be locked up for making my country look stupid.
c) You're just trying to take the piss out of everyone, in which case I look rather stupid...

Any country which started the most destructive war the world has ever seen and committed systematic, industrial mass murder already looks so ridiculous and evil that I don't think he could have possibly done more damage.
And to think, we helped you guys re-industrialize! So you can do it again someday! Oh, the irony! We should ahve made Germany into a lovely agrarian heaven. Where sheep shall safely graze.

-snip-
That better be sarcasm...

so whats wrong with being a nazi

so u think that the nazis started the most destructive war wait till u see what bush is going to unleash

That better be sarcasm...

No, thats the straight up dope.

Well it is a rather stupid name.
Are you German? Because I am, and
a) you aren't in which case I implore you to find your own racist war criminals to find cool
b) you are and you deserve to be locked up for making my country look stupid.
c) You're just trying to take the piss out of everyone, in which case I look rather stupid...I think you're missing the point entirely. He was playing a set of characters that believed like the RL Nazis did. The views of his characters did not and do not mirror those of the player.

I think you're missing the point entirely. He was playing a set of characters that believed like the RL Nazis did. The views of his characters did not and do not mirror those of the player.
That's okay then. Although I can't understand why you would want to role-play being a Nazi...

No, thats the straight up dope.
Then consider yourself ignored.
Inform yourself, and if you want to appologise, then do.

so whats wrong with being a nazi

go away troll

so whats wrong with being a nazi

Well, the Nazi party was involved with geneocide. They set up concentration camps that were horrible. Pretty much they were brainwashed but they had power, so of course they would try to take over. Now, are you can actual member of the Nazi party or are you one of those people that thinks being a Nazi is cool when in fact you are not one?

The Nazi's gave Germans a bad name, I've had people call me a Nazi before because I am German, and honestly it make me want to punch them in the face, but I don't because I feel violence isn't the answer. I will not turn into what the Nazi party would have wanted, I believe in non violence and satyagraha.

I will not go into the details of the Nazi Party, I think it is very sad, what they did.

That's okay then. Although I can't understand why you would want to role-play being a Nazi...


Then consider yourself ignored.
Inform yourself, and if you want to appologise, then do.

Apologize for what, exactly? Telling the truth?

Apologize for what, exactly? Telling the truth?
I would dearly appreciate an elephant raping you anally, but telling you that i despise you must do for now.

trolls not worth it mate

The guys fine.

but to others
http://www.picdump.org/albums/dragmire/Troll_XING.jpg

Any country which started the most destructive war the world has ever seen and committed systematic, industrial mass murder already looks so ridiculous and evil that I don't think he could have possibly done more damage.
And to think, we helped you guys re-industrialize! So you can do it again someday! Oh, the irony! We should ahve made Germany into a lovely agrarian heaven. Where sheep shall safely graze.
Hey, the allies went into Germany with the intention of ensuring it never went to war again, and guess what, now that it worked, Bush and his cronies are complaining that Germans are too peaceful.

so whats wrong with being a nazi

It tends to lead to massive casualties amongst your own people and having your country occupied by foreign powers whilst it is plunged into the depths of economic and social disaster the like of which is much worse than the minor economic and social troubles it was intended to initially remedy. A fairly straightforward value-free judgement based on historical example, no?

The actual content of its ideology aside, it has been shown not to achieve the aims it sets out to accomplish. On the evidence we have available to us from history persisting in supporting such a political outlook after its indisputable abject failure would be just flogging a dead horse.

I think you're missing the point entirely. He was playing a set of characters that believed like the RL Nazis did. The views of his characters did not and do not mirror those of the player.
The point is that it is really offensive to Germans that take the moral burden of Germany's Nazi past seriously to be playing around with things like that. It's as though you were mocking what had happened by using it in a game. This may be hard to understand for non-Germans.
I was discussing something similar on NationStates (Which I loathe to refer to as NS because of the allusions to National Socialism) when someone asked whether you could RP a Nazi nation if you did it responsibly. In my opinion, you can't responsibly RP a Nazi nation period.

I would dearly appreciate an elephant raping you anally, but telling you that i despise you must do for now.

Once again, I ask what I said that was so wrong.
Germany did start the most destructive war that the world has ever seen.
Germany did institute an industrial system of mass murder responsible for an 11 million people, many of whom were women an children
Then, the U.S. turned around and re-armed the country that did all of those terrible things. I do not think they should have.

So why should I be ashamed or apologize for those things? I like Germans, I enjoyed being stationed there, but there is a monster that hides in your collective psyche just waiting to be dug up again.
And seriously, I was not trolling on this one, this is all honest opinion.

I was discussing something similar on NationStates (Which I loathe to refer to as NS because of the allusions to National Socialism) when someone asked whether you could RP a Nazi nation if you did it responsibly. In my opinion, you can't responsibly RP a Nazi nation period.

Would it be possible to responsibly RP a Stalinist state, or a Maoist one, or even a European colonial one?

It tends to lead to massive casualties amongst your own people and having your country occupied by foreign powers whilst it is plunged into the depths of economic and social disaster the like of which is much worse than the minor economic and social troubles it was intended to initially remedy. A fairly straightforward value-free judgement based on historical example, no?

First off, I agree with the basic concept that Nazi ideology is bad, but Germany had more than minor economic troubles before they took over.

Would it be possible to responsibly RP a Stalinist state, or a Maoist one, or even a European colonial one?
Unlike Nazi states, those don't have the self proclaimed goal of completely eliminating a race. Granted, European Colonial states have managed that better than the Nazis in many cases, but the main ideology behind them was economy and not racial superiority. Must admit that I don't like the idea of RPing a stalinist or maoist state either, since its in relation to two specific men that did a lot of harm in their lifetimes.

First off, I agree with the basic concept that Nazi ideology is bad,


Forget ideas of 'good' and 'bad' here for a moment. Lets instead just ask 'does it work?'

but Germany had more than minor economic troubles before they took over.

'Minor' is a relative term, and not one I actually used in my post: question - were the economic troubles they had when the Nazis came to power better or worse than the economic troubles that the people of Germany faced in 1945?

Unlike Nazi states, those don't have the self proclaimed goal of completely eliminating a race.

Well, initially the Jewish aren't a race, rather a 'religious community' or an ill-defined 'people', but that's beside the point, other than showing that the Nazi ideology had some laughably shaky theoretical underpinnings.

Authoritarian style communism (read Stalin and Mao) also attempted mush the same thing: any subdivision with its own special interests and culture within the state (frex, the Jews) are problems for the state as they represent a different kind of political and economic set-up to the one which the state is trying to establish - even Marx realised this and his comments on groups such as these are somewhat eliptical. In the end authoritarian communism must seek to dissolve such subcultures if it is to achieve its aims.

Aside from which, you seem to be drawing particular attention to the act of genocide here, as if killing people on the basis of their racial (or perceived racial) stock is somehow worse than killing people for other reasons of political expediency.

Unlike Nazi states, those don't have the self proclaimed goal of completely eliminating a race. Granted, European Colonial states have managed that better than the Nazis in many cases, but the main ideology behind them was economy and not racial superiority. Must admit that I don't like the idea of RPing a stalinist or maoist state either, since its in relation to two specific men that did a lot of harm in their lifetimes.

What I don’t understand is why is matters if its about race. All genocide is wrong, regardless of intent.

'Minor' is a relative term, and not one I actually used in my post: question - were the economic troubles they had when the Nazis came to power better or worse than the economic troubles that the people of Germany faced in 1945?

Honestly, I couldn’t say. My independent studying of WW2 mostly includes the US, Japan and pre-war Germany. However, I am currently reading a book about the war in Europe. Its about the history of the US military there, though. So I doubt it will have much to say about economic statistics in Germany.

Anyway, in pre-war Germany money effectively became useless.

Anyway, in pre-war Germany money effectively became useless.

The same was true at the time of the fall of Berlin, only this time the barbarians really were at the gates.

What I don’t understand is why is matters if its about race. All genocide is wrong, regardless of intent.
Genocide is par definition about "race". I should have put that word in quotations before, for clarity's sake. Besides, Genocide is an intended process, it's a crime. You don't just accidentally come close to wiping out members of an ethnic group.

.
So why should I be ashamed or apologize for those things? I like Germans, I enjoyed being stationed there, but there is a monster that hides in your collective psyche just waiting to be dug up again.
And seriously, I was not trolling on this one, this is all honest opinion.

Shouldn't this be every human psyche. Why just the Germans?

Unlike Nazi states, those don't have the self proclaimed goal of completely eliminating a race. Granted, European Colonial states have managed that better than the Nazis in many cases, but the main ideology behind them was economy and not racial superiority. Must admit that I don't like the idea of RPing a stalinist or maoist state either, since its in relation to two specific men that did a lot of harm in their lifetimes.
Thats not true Mao tried to wipe out Chinese Culture and replace it with Maoism
Stalin wanted to destroy the Chechens.
People can RP what they want here.

Thats not true Mao tried to wipe out Chinese Culture and replace it with Maoism
Stalin wanted to destroy the Chechens.
People can RP what they want here.
They can RP what they want, but the question is whether you can do it responsibly, and I rule that out flatly for Nazism.

So why should I be ashamed or apologize for those things? I like Germans, I enjoyed being stationed there, but there is a monster that hides in your collective psyche just waiting to be dug up again.
And seriously, I was not trolling on this one, this is all honest opinion.
Collectively condemning a group of people for the (imagined) sins of individuals of that group is exactly what the nazis did. No, in my psyche i dont see that monster. People change and are not responsible for the sins of their forefathers, or do i have to be afraid that you, as an american will poison natives, whip blacks for not kowtowing to their massa, betray your souvereign etc?
You slander a whole nation and ask what you should apologise for? :rolleyes:

They can RP what they want, but the question is whether you can do it responsibly, and I rule that out flatly for Nazism.

Despite being unable to provide any real argument for making that ruling with regard to Nazism but not for other ideologies?

Despite being unable to provide any real argument for making that ruling with regard to Nazism but not for other ideologies?
The argument I made before is that Nazism is a really touchy subject for Germans that take their history seriously. I can't say much for the other ideologies, sicnce they weren't practiced in Germany.
Since I'm part German and grew up in Germany, I don't think you should play around with Nazism, because it's not a trifling matter. Like I said, its hard for non-Germans to understand.

Since I'm part German and grew up in Germany, I don't think you should play around with Nazism, because it's not a trifling matter.

Indeed it's not, but then no political system of beliefs which leads to people being killed for the good of the greater whole can be described as a trifling matter. What I find highly dubious about bracketting Nazism off from other ideologies is that it implies that there is something particularly special about Nazism: whereas in comparison to the practices perpetuated by other governmental or nationalist systems/movements we see that this is not the case.

If anything, it seems to me that nazism is particularly demonised and made into 'the other' because this allows those countires which did not embrace it to operate with a clear collective conscience. There is nothing inherently magical or special about the effects of Nazi ideology compared to other ideologies, and so I find positions like yours something of a double standard (no offense intended).

In the end there is nothing inherently more despicable about executing someone because they are Jewish than if they are Tutsis, Azerbaijani, Croatian, Nicaraguan Indians or whatever.

Collectively condemning a group of people for the (imagined) sins of individuals of that group is exactly what the nazis did. No, in my psyche i dont see that monster. People change and are not responsible for the sins of their forefathers, or do i have to be afraid that you, as an american will poison natives, whip blacks for not kowtowing to their massa, betray your souvereign etc?
You slander a whole nation and ask what you should apologise for? :rolleyes:

It ain't slander if its true.
America is far from perfect. I live here, I should know. We committed our own genocides and our own atrocities. We still do it today.
I do not think it is an individual monster, rather a collective one. Look at pictures of the Nazi rallies and book-burnings. You see it there, yet I bet that most of those people went back to thier normal lives the next day, until the next rally came around. You even see it here on NS, when people like Jester III say that I should be 'raped by an elephant' for the things that I have said, when I did no more than speak the truth. He wants me to be RAPED for speaking my mind. Didn't the Nazi's do that? Or when Leonstein says that Waffen SS Ostland should be locked up for 'making my country look stupid.' Didn't the Nazi's lock people up that disagreed with them or made thier country look 'stupid?' Waffen did not make Germany look stupid, Germany did that to herself, with the large consent of her citizens back when they let that silly little monkey gain the Chancellorship. I remember that the Nazi's censored free speech, too. So the monster emerges.
People change, yes. People are not responsible for the sins of thier fathers, usually yes. But absolving yourselves and your ancestors of responsibility says that you should not recognize the atrocity that was committed because you know better now. It is not our fault, so why should we worry about it? Germany has done alot to atone for what they have done, I would argue even more than the U.S. has. But what about the victims? Just because you have 'done your time' does not mean that the crime never took place. We cannot just wipe the whole slate clean and pretend that it has not happened. We can't yank slavery out of American history because we don't like it, and we can't pretend that the Shoah did not happen because it might offend the Germans. Be ashamed of parts of your history, it makes you appreciate it more. It is like a mature love, you recognize the flaws and work with what you've got.
It is my opinion that re-arming and industrializing Germany was a mistake, one made primarily to use your people as a shield against the USSR. Thus far, history has proven me wrong, but you never know. I hope it continues to do so.
If the Germans want to hate me for it and hope that I get raped by elephants, so be it. I don't see it happening anytime soon.

<snip>The reason Leonstein is against Waffen using a name reminiscient of the Nazi era is because it's not a respectful way of dealing with German history, not because he wants to forget it happened.

<snip>
It's not about bracketting Nazism out from other rascist ideologies. It's the way Germans deal with their history that makes us so opposed to using Nazism in an RP or anything. I disapprove wholly of how some nations like to blame Nazism for their wrongdoings, but dealing with Nazism is an important part of growing up in Germany, and we can get pretty touchy when we feel it gets misused.

It's not about bracketting Nazism out from other rascist ideologies. It's the way Germans deal with their history that makes us so opposed to using Nazism in an RP or anything. I disapprove wholly of how some nations like to blame Nazism for their wrongdoings, but dealing with Nazism is an important part of growing up in Germany, and we can get pretty touchy when we feel it gets misused.

So, would you allow that people from other real life nations could feel the same way about their history - thus creating a position where no RP that related closely to less than pleasent actual historical movements would be acceptable?

It's not about bracketting Nazism out from other rascist ideologies. It's the way Germans deal with their history that makes us so opposed to using Nazism in an RP or anything. I disapprove wholly of how some nations like to blame Nazism for their wrongdoings, but dealing with Nazism is an important part of growing up in Germany, and we can get pretty touchy when we feel it gets misused.

What utter politically correct rubbish. If you are offended by something on an internet forum, tough, deal with it, move on.

So, would you allow that people from other real life nations could feel the same way about their history - thus creating a position where no RP that related closely to less than pleasent actual historical movements would be acceptable?
That's a pretty crass understatement. I wouldn't dare refer to the Nazi crimes as "less than pleasant" and I would be loathe to accept anything being RPed that was similarly barbaric and based on real history.

So, would you allow that people from other real life nations could feel the same way about their history - thus creating a position where no RP that related closely to less than pleasent actual historical movements would be acceptable?

I guess no more Star Wars based ft rps then. Much of Sith philosophy and the Galactic Empire are based on Nazism. Just where does the pc stuff stop? Who gets to decide where it stops?

That's a pretty crass understatement. I wouldn't dare refer to the Nazi crimes as "less than pleasant"

Be a darling and point out to me where I described Nazism as 'less than pleasent', would you?

...and I would be loathe to accept anything being RPed that was similarly barbaric and based on real history.

So that rules out just about every war in NS then, no?

If the Germans want to hate me for it and hope that I get raped by elephants, so be it. I don't see it happening anytime soon.
You really got a problem with dividing between individuals and their nation, right? Right now, i am the only german who wants bad things happen to you. It isnt like all Germany is out to get you. It isnt because i am a nazi. It isnt because germans as such are less moral than others.
It solely is because you assumed that i, among millions of others, am more likely to engage in the industrialised slaughter of people and start a war because i happen to be born within borders where those things transpired decades before i was born, compared to those of other nations. That there is something among germans which make us more evil than others.
I am not blind to the atrocities that happened. But i draw a line when it comes to them being transmitted via a mystical "collective psyche" to the next generations. Even because of our history we get taught the horrors of the nazis over and over and over again. And that does not induce a feeling of "Well, its the german way, lets do the same". What you are saying is exactly the nazi argumentation that landed the gypsies in concentration camps: all gypsies are the same, thieves, liars and swindlers, its in their genes.
Give me a reason, a real reason and not some wish-wash, why the whole german population should live in an unindustrialized nation and feel guilty for crimes they did not commit?
Besides, are americans of german descent more likely to burn books or people than those of, say, british descent? After all, they come from a poisoned well, right?

Be a darling and point out to me where I described Nazism as 'less than pleasent', would you?Oky:
So, would you allow that people from other real life nations could feel the same way about their history - thus creating a position where no RP that related closely to less than pleasent actual historical movements would be acceptable?I'm not saying that you said Nazism was less than pleasant, I just think it doesn't compare to anything that could be considered such. That means telling me that I've been saying that nothing "unpleasant" could be RPed is wrong. I'm sorry if this wasn't clear.

So that rules out just about every war in NS then, no?Not really. The horrendous thing about Nazism was what went on in the death camps and against the civilians. Things like this happen in other places, but the way the Nazi Government encouraged it and made it the norm makes it so wholly appalling.

I guess no more Star Wars based ft rps then. Much of Sith philosophy and the Galactic Empire are based on Nazism. Just where does the pc stuff stop? Who gets to decide where it stops?It stops when you call yourself a Nazi regime and use Nazi insignia for the sake of imitating the sick bastards that started WW2.

You really got a problem with dividing between individuals and their nation, right? Right now, i am the only german who wants bad things happen to you. It isnt like all Germany is out to get you. It isnt because i am a nazi. It isnt because germans as such are less moral than others.
It solely is because you assumed that i, among millions of others, am more likely to engage in the industrialised slaughter of people and start a war because i happen to be born within borders where those things transpired decades before i was born, compared to those of other nations. That there is something among germans which make us more evil than others.
I am not blind to the atrocities that happened. But i draw a line when it comes to them being transmitted via a mystical "collective psyche" to the next generations. Even because of our history we get taught the horrors of the nazis over and over and over again. And that does not induce a feeling of "Well, its the german way, lets do the same". What you are saying is exactly the nazi argumentation that landed the gypsies in concentration camps: all gypsies are the same, thieves, liars and swindlers, its in their genes.
Give me a reason, a real reason and not some wish-wash, why the whole german population should live in an unindustrialized nation and feel guilty for crimes they did not commit?
Besides, are americans of german descent more likely to burn books or people than those of, say, british descent? After all, they come from a poisoned well, right?

World War II. 11 million prisoners executed, many by starvation, exposure, or systematic execution. The most destructive conflict that the world has ever seen. Do I need another reason than that? Besides, living in an agrarian paradise would be nice. I would certainly enjoy it. Think of it, fresh air, excersize, happy animals, green grass, growing things, surrounded by life, happy, happy happy! Better than LSD, I bet. But seriously, the whole agrarian paradise thing is a saracstic joke, it wasn't feasible then, and it certainly is not now. Just FYI.
It isn't that you are more likely to commit mass murder, it is that you have done it already. So while Germans have shown the world for the last 50 years that they can be great people (minus the food, of course. Don't get angry. THAT was a joke), you still have it on your record. Your leaders made no apology for it at Nuremberg, and I wonder how many people would have felt bad about it had you won the war. Makes me wary.

Believe me, I know that most Germans were horrified by what went on, because most people, everywhere, are decent people who want to do nothing more than to live in peace. But obviosuly, enough people supported it, got it off the ground, and kept it going right up to Tuesday, 8 May 1945. But it happened there, and many people sat by and let it. Who knows, GW Bush could be on that path right now, and 50 years from now a German and an American may be arguing over this exact topic, just flip-flopped.

Of those Americans who joined the American National Socialist Party, the majority were of German descent, and that group did burn books. So, yes, I suppose you could say that. If you want to make that leap. I don't want to, for fear of being raped by that elephant.

It isn't that you are more likely to commit mass murder, it is that you have done it already. So while Germans have shown the world for the last 50 years that they can be great people (minus the food, of course. Don't get angry. THAT was a joke), you still have it on your record. Your leaders made no apology for it at Nuremberg, and I wonder how many people would have felt bad about it had you won the war. Makes me wary.
Wrong.
I did not commit mass murder. Nor did my father or my mother, both being born in the last monthes of the third reich. Nor did any of my grandparents.
Face it, people of any nation, maybe exempting the vatican, are a pretty heterogenous group, they do not have a herd mentality that is special to them. There is no such thing as hereditary guilt or morals. I have nothing on my record, like my whole generation and most of that before us, just by virtue of being german, everything is coming from my own efforts.

Besides, what reason is "World War II"? I didnt participate, but i still should suffer?

and i thought we would be past this stereotype 60 years on :(

Wrong.
I did not commit mass murder. Nor did my father or my mother, both being born in the last monthes of the third reich. Nor did any of my grandparents.
Face it, people of any nation, maybe exempting the vatican, are a pretty heterogenous group, they do not have a herd mentality that is special to them. There is no such thing as hereditary guilt or morals. I have nothing on my record, like my whole generation and most of that before us, just by virtue of being german, everything is coming from my own efforts.

Besides, what reason is "World War II"? I didnt participate, but i still should suffer?

No herd mentality? Well, explain that to them http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedbooksweek/bookburning/20thcentury/nazigermany/nazigermany.htm[/URL]
Or to them, http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/gallery2/14495.htm
Or to her woman about to be executed (http://http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/GALL31R/76461.htm)
Yeah, there is no herd mentality here. My bad!

No hereditary guilt or morals? Then culture is not transmitted from parent to offspring during the 18 years that children are raised? I think you need to get the bleach out and really scrub under those nails.
And, exactly how are you suffering? I don't think you even know what that word really means. But this photo explains it well. Starving Jews (http://history1900s.about.com/library/holocaust/blpictures.htm)

For God's sake man, even little kids! (http://history1900s.about.com/library/holocaust/blauschwitz8.htm)

Jester, I know that it is not you and that you are not responsible. It is a topic that really brings out alot of emotion in me. I am sorry for getting you so riled up, and anyone else I pissed off.

Aah, Waffen-SS Ostland, how are ya? :p
Don't know if you remember me, you declared war on me in II, then rethought it when my allies showed up and yours didn't :p
I thought you were an RL nazi, sorry for the misunderstanding, but you were very convincing;)

Well I do have a historical interest in the Nazi era--how did people like that get into that much power? And I did have a fascination with Hitler in my teenage years so I absorbed a lot of stuff from RL Nazi/Aryan types. They didn't have Aryan skinheads then but if they had I might have been one--but
that was 30 years ago. My life and thinking have changed considerably. Anyway I did try to bring a lot of authenticity to it, and of course if I wanted to play the militant, you were a natural target Sanctaphrax. Trouble was, a lot of the Nazi Europe/Aryan Axis folks seemed to be RL Nazis and that got to be too much.

I started and named Waffen-SS Ostland as a Nazi nation, to RP on the Nazi regions, which I checked out because of my historical interest in the Nazi era. Actually I am an American of Slovak and Polish descent. I was thinking of RPing a WWII era Slavic Fascist state/movement--the Slovak Republic was a German ally with a strong native Fascist movement, the Hlinka Guards--but German Nazi symbols and slogans are a lot easier to find than those of the Russian, Slovak, etc. movements. (Hence "Waffen-SS Ostland". Ostland was the German occupied area of Russia, Belarus and Ukraine; and there were units from many of the Slavic countries in the Waffen-SS.) I found that, given the kinds of players who are actually in those regions, I can't really responsibly roleplay a Nazi nation here without getting sucked into the whole package. I'm stuck with the name though unless I want to let the nation die and I'm not quite ready to do that.

...Hence "Waffen-SS Ostland". Ostland was the German occupied area of Russia, Belarus and Ukraine; and there were units from many of the Slavic countries in the Waffen-SS...
Ostland is also infamous for the crimes that happened there. The absolute low point of Western civilisation in my book. You must have been aware of that, and known that it is fairly irresponsible to call yourself that. You could have chosen plenty of names from the era that weren't directly linked to atrocities, but either you didn't bother thinking about it, or you did and thought that it wouldn't be a problem.
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And now for my long rant...
What happened in Germany 60 years ago is inexcusable, and no responsible German citizen has ever tried to excuse it.

What happened there could have happened anywhere. It was the logical conclusion of a number of factors. Social Darwinism in practice.

But the reason it happened in Germany was primarily the way World War One was handled. Germany did not start that war, and was not the solely responsible aggressor. Nonetheless, in order to satisfy British and French demands, that was exactly what Germany was blamed for. What was a nation to do that had once been great, a Peacebringer in Bismarck's time (after 1871 that is...) and was now a Pariah, an outcast. Germany would've been paying reparations until the 70s or 80s.

So it was clear that "Us against Them"-type movements had to spring up and find popular support. Just look at what's happening in America now - just in the same rate as other nations begin to turn their backs on them their Nationalism comes up. It's natural, although I doubt that the US could become a second Nazi state, considering how ideology and circumstance has changed.

So Hitler came to power. And you know what: He did well! He managed to get the economy back on its' knees, he revised Versailles, he built the infrastructure. That built the inital trust in the man that would later be so misplaced.

Do you think however that the Germans (all of them) wanted the Jews and the Reds and everyone else dead? Most of them didn't even complete the line of thought. It was told to them that the Jews were resettled into the East. The ones that did know are criminals. Many were never punished, and that is regrettable - but it is too late now. Pretty much all of them are dead.

We as a nation have spent 60 years with ourselves to work this out. Generations. We have come to terms with it. Today's Germans have nothing to do with the Nazi era. They know more about it than any other people. They are taught about it in school. From Year 3 on.

Germany has done its' best to pay its' debt to the world. It has given aid, it has helped it's allies, it has sought to further peace around the world. We are not done yet, but we have gone a long way.

So that was all I had to say. I am not responsible for what happened, neither are my parents, or even their parents (although one of my grandfathers did fight in Stalingrad...). I am not even going to start talking about "herd mentalities" :rolleyes:

This is a serious business for Germany and has been for all these years. I cannot and will not understand anyone who wants to "play" with that legacy, for any reason whatsoever, and I will not engage anyone who has still not understood a thing, even after all these years.

Slightly off topic but I was just called a "paki lover" as an insult. I'm about ready to kick that person's skull in.

[/hijack]

Slightly off topic but I was just called a "paki lover" as an insult. I'm about ready to kick that person's skull in.

[/hijack]

proof that ignorance won't be bliss for the dude who called you that

Oh shut it. Half of all the RPs in II are genocides. And two thirds of the nations that RP are militant dictatorships. Geez.

Oh shut it. Half of all the RPs in II are genocides. And two thirds of the nations that RP are militant dictatorships. Geez.
Geez, this topic might just be a little too important to me to be brushed aside with a "Geez".

You see the stuff I see you'd agree. Quite funny when I hear "can Nazi nations be role played properly?" and I go "yes". And my second response is, who cares? The original topic of the title is, do you know somebody who thinks the topic writer is a Nazi. Now back to the original subject.