NationStates Jolt Archive

I need a good political debate, I have too much energy today.

Come up with a good subject, and we can discuss it. Hopefully no flaming etc. will occur. I suppose thats a little optimistic for a political debate...

Okay, why should minors (people under 18) be unable to vote but still be taxed?
Or should we drop all income and sales tax for minors.
Or should we let them (including myself :rolleyes: ) vote and run for political office.

If you're thinking of making an issue from this, sorry it's already taken by me ;)

hmm...Its difficult. I wouldnt like to see the sixth formers at my school voting, but they would not make up a large voting block in developed countries.

Two years isnt long to wait

Why should we be taxed to pay for politicians that we can't help choose? This is discrimination! This is taxation without representation!
Young adults like me can't legally start businesses, among a million other things that are kept for when we're older---for no good reason other than, I think, we have no presence in government.

What if people over a certain age were not allowed to vote? Do you know how much of an outrage that would be? But that is not fundamentally different!

Would you also propose changing laws the treat children differently from adults when they are accused of a crime? No more "being tried as a minor" versus "being tried as an adult?"

And what about the (somewhat) recent US Supreme Court ruling that banned the executions of convicts who were under 18 at the time of the crime?

No real opinion on this myself, just wanted to point out that there are some special favors in the law for those under 18.

Why should we be taxed to pay for politicians that we can't help choose? This is discrimination! This is taxation without representation!
Young adults like me can't legally start businesses, among a million other things that are kept for when we're older---for no good reason other than, I think, we have no presence in government.

What if people over a certain age were not allowed to vote? Do you know how much of an outrage that would be? But that is not fundamentally different!

From a realpolitik standpoint, children are treated unfairly primarily because you can't vote, and because politicians need someone to scapegoat. As politicians need someone to blame for society's ailments, and most old standby's, such as "negro savages" and Irish yokels not only are not PC but can, God forbid, form Political Action Committees to force politicians who use those stereotypes from office, they naturally fall upon those with no political voice of their own: hence the imaginary scourge of youth predators. Children are thereby targeted with laws designed to combat imaginary menaces because it allows politicians something to fight against without really a) having to do anything, or b) not having to risk attacking a real voting constituency.

From a more abstract standpoint, you can't do a lot of things because some things, like voting and running a business, are not simple matters of intelligence. You also need something generally referred to as wisdom, and wisdom is not something you can simply get out of a book. You get it primarily through age and experience. While there are some wise children and some foolish adults, in the aggregate children are less wise than adults, and as such under the law you are not allowed certain rights until such time as the law deems you likely to be able to handle the responsibilities that go along with those rights.

From a more abstract standpoint, you can't do a lot of things because some things, like voting and running a business, are not simple matters of intelligence. You also need something generally referred to as wisdom, and wisdom is not something you can simply get out of a book. You get it primarily through age and experience. While there are some wise children and some foolish adults, in the aggregate children are less wise than adults, and as such under the law you are not allowed certain rights until such time as the law deems you likely to be able to handle the responsibilities that go along with those rights.

Why must you be wise to obtain a business license? A foolish businessman hurts nobody except himself.
There is an argument that minors are not liable for any contract that they sign. That law would have to be repealed, or have a lower age limit equal to the lower age proposed required for a business license. Either way, not all business need such contracts (like credit cards) anyway, and many kinds of businesses that a young person could start wouldn't need creditors either.

Why must you be wise to obtain a business license? A foolish businessman hurts nobody except himself.
There is an argument that minors are not liable for any contract that they sign. That law would have to be repealed, or have a lower age limit equal to the lower age proposed required for a business license. Either way, not all business need such contracts anyway (like credit cards).

He also hurts everyone who invests in his company, and everyone who works for his company, and everyone who tries to work with his company to produce goods/services, etc. Add it up, and it comes out to quite a number of people who are hurt if a businessman makes a mistake. As a result, wisdom commands a great deal of respect in the law.

I think that you should be given a test to judge whether or not you are capable of filling out a voting form at the age of 10, and if you were legible, you were able to legally vote. well, i'm 11 yrs old and i'm posting this.

He also hurts everyone who invests in his company, and everyone who works for his company, and everyone who tries to work with his company to produce goods/services, etc. Add it up, and it comes out to quite a number of people who are hurt if a businessman makes a mistake. As a result, wisdom commands a great deal of respect in the law.

You're right.
However, I doubt that any young person that is trying to start a business is foolish. I'd say that young people with business interests are the wise anyways, from what I know. All other young people like me who are interested in starting a business, that I know of, aren't nutcases out to waste people's time. Many of history's greatest businessmen started very young--at an age that would be illegal today.

I think that you should be given a test to judge whether or not you are capable of filling out a voting form at the age of 10, and if you were legible, you were able to legally vote. well, i'm 11 yrs old and i'm posting this.

I agree with you.
Also, the majority of young people are not interested in politics and wouldn't care to vote anyway.

Okay, why should minors (people under 18) be unable to vote but still be taxed?
I would like to add:
Why can't holders of Permanent Resident Visas vote, when they can be taxed?

Bit closer to home for me.