NationStates Jolt Archive

I've noticed that, Southern hospitality and charm notwithstanding, there is a real lack of manners in the world. Aggressive drivers are just the most dangerous example of a problem that seems to be getting worse as time goes by. I saw a t-shirt the other day that said "It's all about me -- deal with it". That's kind of blunt, but I think a lot of us wear those shirts figuratively, anyway.

When's the last time you pushed in your chair after a meeting, or a meal at a restaurant, at the library, or even at home? I hold doors open all the time and I only rarely get a thank you for the effort. That's probably because good manners used to be taught here and they're taking a little longer to become obsolete. Even when I say 'thank you' for a service, I'm more likely to get a reply like 'no problem', rather than 'your welcome'.

Lastly, I was in the airport this weekend. I don't think anyone remembers what a trash can is for. Newspapers and food wrappers were strewn all over the gate. It's easy to carry the stuff to your seat, it's just as easy to carry it to a trash can.

[/rant]

I've noticed that, Southern hospitality and charm notwithstanding, there is a real lack of manners in the world. Aggressive drivers are just the most dangerous example of a problem that seems to be getting worse as time goes by. I saw a t-shirt the other day that said "It's all about me -- deal with it". That's kind of blunt, but I think a lot of us wear those shirts figuratively, anyway.

When's the last time you pushed in your chair after a meeting, or a meal at a restaurant, at the library, or even at home? I hold doors open all the time and I only rarely get a thank you for the effort. That's probably because good manners used to be taught here and they're taking a little longer to become obsolete. Even when I say 'thank you' for a service, I'm more likely to get a reply like 'no problem', rather than 'your welcome'.

Lastly, I was in the airport this weekend. I don't think anyone remembers what a trash can is for. Newspapers and food wrappers were strewn all over the gate. It's easy to carry the stuff to your seat, it's just as easy to carry it to a trash can.

[/rant]


While I understand, what is wrong with “no problem” I have a tendency to use it in about the same way as “your welcome”

Its about the attitude not the words

I have to say that if that was a rant, it was one of the calmest and most rational rants I have heard on this forum. Anyway, I find myself thinking the exact same thing.

My mother taught me that women who expect to be treated differently are the ones who most likely don't deserve it.

I am 36 now and my mom was right. I always try and open doors and such when I can help, whether it be women or men, and I almost always get a "thanks" or a smile/nod.

I once saw a Marine not open the door for a lady at the PX, she complained outloud to herself at how rude he was, and a Gunny came over and started chewing the guy out. I had to step in and ask if the ladies arms were broken, and if not, why she seemed to think she was due this courtesy.

She said nothing, the Gunny said Marines have to always set an example, I told him the kid was over 30ft infront of the lady when he entered the store, the Gunny apologized to the guy and the lady left mad.

Worked out well, I think.

You can count "respect for elders" amongst the loss of manners.

When driving through my old neighborhood (before moving), I had more than one occasion when I drove past a group of 10-14 year olds, minding my own business, only to be flipped off and have obcenities yelled at me.

It's not that bad for what you describe.

I was raised with "proper" manners. You got backhanded if you acted like a slob. ;)

Do remember that when you are annoyed, it tends to compound the offense.

There are pigs; no doubt. But to suggest manners don't exist?....

Now Chivalry is something that is in decline.

You have to wonder when rape prevention training tells women to shout "Fire" instead of "help."

I think we can blame parents for some of the rudeness of the kids. But courtesy in general seems to be on the decline in a society that values rights and individual freedoms but doesn't often speak about personal responsibilities.

Well I tried to say this a few weeks ago, but everyone just said that Im stupid. I think its a worldwide thing, as people in Britian seem to be rude or at best indifferent. I combat this by smiling visibly at passers-by visibly so that it either forces them to be well-mannered and smile back or leaves them feeling very uncomfortable and trying to ignore me or look at the ground.

I've noticed that, Southern hospitality and charm notwithstanding, there is a real lack of manners in the world. Aggressive drivers are just the most dangerous example of a problem that seems to be getting worse as time goes by. I saw a t-shirt the other day that said "It's all about me -- deal with it". That's kind of blunt, but I think a lot of us wear those shirts figuratively, anyway.

When's the last time you pushed in your chair after a meeting, or a meal at a restaurant, at the library, or even at home? I hold doors open all the time and I only rarely get a thank you for the effort. That's probably because good manners used to be taught here and they're taking a little longer to become obsolete. Even when I say 'thank you' for a service, I'm more likely to get a reply like 'no problem', rather than 'your welcome'.

Lastly, I was in the airport this weekend. I don't think anyone remembers what a trash can is for. Newspapers and food wrappers were strewn all over the gate. It's easy to carry the stuff to your seat, it's just as easy to carry it to a trash can.

[/rant]

Speaking as a southerner, "southern charm and hospitality" is a myth and simply does not exist. It's just as 'bad' here as it is up in the North (I've visited the north often.)


That said, I don't notice a decline in mannors, perhaps I'm far too young, but I always to try to act in nice ways to other people, regardless of sex (just holding doors open for women is horrid).

Ah...good old Southern hospitality......how I miss it. I've been in Oregon for a month now, and I am bothered by the lack of manners or people just generally being polite. Not one person has said excuse me when they bump into me, no one says thank you when I hold the door or let someone go ahead of me....countless other little things. I was having a manicure and casually conversing with the technician (i said yes ma'am and smiled and thanked her for her services) and she said "wow, people from Georgia sure are polite." So apparently she wasnt used to clients being polite. It's easy to be nice and courteous.....so why not do it?

*runs off to spread Southern Hospitality to the Pacific Northwest*

Chivalry is based on respect, but backed up by force. It always was. If people don't take the idea of respect personally, and guarantee it with their blood, it's never going to hold. That might mean standing up for your sister, or for your mother, or for your wife, but it has to be done.

That's how it was for a few centuries, at least. Not so much anymore.
When my dad was a kid, he once forgot to open a door for his mother and sisters, which quickly earned him a broken nose from his dad, in public, with no fuss from anyone standing around. Everyone knew he needed to learn, and the fact that I know that story proves that he learned it well. If people taught manners to their kids with some diligence, you'd see it again. Granted, you couldn't be so blunt in today's legal environment, but there are ways,

Ah...good old Southern hospitality......how I miss it. I've been in Oregon for a month now, and I am bothered by the lack of manners or people just generally being polite. Not one person has said excuse me when they bump into me, no one says thank you when I hold the door or let someone go ahead of me....countless other little things. I was having a manicure and casually conversing with the technician (i said yes ma'am and smiled and thanked her for her services) and she said "wow, people from Georgia sure are polite." So apparently she wasnt used to clients being polite. It's easy to be nice and courteous.....so why not do it?

*runs off to spread Southern Hospitality to the Pacific Northwest*
PEECHY!!!!

:fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:

PEECHY!!!!

:fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:

Well speaking of good manners.....Hey sugar smack :fluffle: You are definitely one of the dying breeds.

@Pepe....a broken nose :eek: ...shite.

You can count "respect for elders" amongst the loss of manners.

When driving through my old neighborhood (before moving), I had more than one occasion when I drove past a group of 10-14 year olds, minding my own business, only to be flipped off and have obcenities yelled at me.

Yeah, I've noticed much the same around here. I'm very, very disenfranchised with my generation. Edit: Whilst normally I'd be decrying the events in Pepe's post, a solid punch in the face is probably what these punks need.

I try to hold doors open and stuff for people, it's no big deal and it doesn't cost me anything. If they thank me, huzzah, if they don't, doesn't matter.

What really pisses me off is people who walk down the street like they own it, and they don't move out of your way. And if you smack into them they start acting up. :rolleyes:

Well speaking of good manners.....Hey sugar smack :fluffle: You are definitely one of the dying breeds.

@Pepe....a broken nose :eek: ...shite.
Thanks hun I havent seen you in ages :fluffle:

When my dad was a kid, he once forgot to open a door for his mother and sisters, which quickly earned him a broken nose from his dad, in public, with no fuss from anyone standing around.
You think this is an ideal situation? I think that's wrong.

Speaking as a southerner, "southern charm and hospitality" is a myth and simply does not exist. It's just as 'bad' here as it is up in the North (I've visited the north often.)


That said, I don't notice a decline in mannors, perhaps I'm far too young, but I always to try to act in nice ways to other people, regardless of sex (just holding doors open for women is horrid).



It's not a myth, people in the South are generally more mannerable than people elsewhere in this country.

You think this is an ideal situation? I think that's wrong.

The way it turned out was harsh and probably unintentionally injurious, but memorable and effective. You could do as much with words, rather than slamming your kid's head into the door-frame, but the whole thing illustrates a typical respect that doesn't really exist any more, unfortunately.

It's not a myth, people in the South are generally more mannerable than people elsewhere in this country.

I have also found this to be true.. except in New Orleans.. Kids seem to forget their manners there..

Going to a public school ( Those funny ones in England taht are private, but since they are so old they call them 'public'. I dont know why) Probably enforces manners.

The older teachers give you their horrid frowns if you fail to show certain courtesies. My Physics teacher gets pissed if you let the door slam on the way in, and I was onced jabbed in the stomach by an English teacher for 'Loutish' behaviour on my way to a lesson.

The problem with my school is that some of the kids are so rich that they are too spoilt to ever be polite. They are part of the children of 'Thatchers children' (Well, at least the ones that are sensible enough to put their kids in a private school, rather that the state sector's shit-hole comprehensives, not all of them are shit-holes. Not grammar schools anyway) It is only the middle-class children (Like me, I like to think) whose parents give up a lot of their income to send their children to private school, and who have scholarships that show any degree of politeness and courtesy.

So in general manners are in decline. And if you look at my generation, it looks only to get worse.

When's the last time you pushed in your chair after a meeting, or a meal at a restaurant, at the library, or even at home?

Erm...all the time. Who doesn't do that? Especially in restaraunts - you usually can't even get around if the chairs aren't pushed in.

I hold doors open all the time and I only rarely get a thank you for the effort.

Really? I generally at least get a smile, which I take as a thank you.

Even when I say 'thank you' for a service, I'm more likely to get a reply like 'no problem', rather than 'your welcome'.

I don't see any problem with using these two interchangeably.

It's easy to carry the stuff to your seat, it's just as easy to carry it to a trash can.

This bothers me - but not nearly as much as people who do it outdoors. At least if it is inside, someone will eventually clean it up. When people leave trash all over a park or beach or something, it drives me batty. Especially when some asshole having a picnic at a public park decides to leave chicken bones all over the ground and my dog ends up trying to eat one of them - prompting me to have to pull a bone out of my dog's mouth before he gets splinters from it and then hold his leash very close while he tries desperately to get at the "treats" someone left for him. Bleh.

You think this is an ideal situation? I think that's wrong.

I assume 'A broken nose' is a slight exagguration?

It's not a myth, people in the South are generally more mannerable than people elsewhere in this country.

To your face anyways. Most "good Southerners" are just as nasty (if not more) once you're out of earshot.

I was raised here, yet I am still always amazed when someone is walking with me telling me all about how "Nobody in the family likes Dorris, because she is a horrible mother. She beat her kids and now can't even see them without supervision. Matt still stayed married to her though. No one is sure why..." and then walks directly up to Dorris, "Dorris honey, I haven't seen you in ages! Give me a hug! How have you been? How's your mother?" while I just scowl at this woman who apparently beat her kids so badly that she isn't even allowed to see them anymore wondering why I even have to say hello to her.

I assume 'A broken nose' is a slight exagguration?

No, not in this case. In fact, my dad tells the story as "the first time I got my nose broken," (of about nine times) although it was the last from his dad, who died when he was about 16. Like I was saying though, it was probably more harsh than intended.

Edit: If that does seem unorthodox, keep in mind this was 1953. Although you can beat your kids all day in a Wal-Mart without anyone saying a word.. I've seen that happen plenty. ;)

Chivalry isn't dead, but it's dying. Parents don't take the time necessary to teach their children anything, let alone manners (of course, I'm speaking in gross generalization here).
How many young men do you see wearing a ball cap in the presence of a lady?
How many young gentleman can tie a tie?
How many youngsters comb their hair, wash their face, brush their teeth in the morning?
How many young men offer their seat to a lady when none are available?
How many american citizens sing "The Star Spangled Banner" with their hands on their hearts when the flag is displayed and a band plays it?
Unfortunately, the answer to these questions sickens me and many other people of upbringing. Much of it comes with discipline. Young parents go wrong when they think their children will get mad if they try to direct or discipline their children. Youngsters CRAVE direction! They WANT to do things correctly.
BUT..... it does take a parent's effort. That is what's lacking.

It's not a myth, people in the South are generally more mannerable than people elsewhere in this country.
No, they aren't. I know just as many rude southerners as I do rude northerners.

It's not a myth, people in the South are generally more mannerable than people elsewhere in this country.

As one who has been all over this country, Southerners have no noticble difference in manners.

Chivalry isn't dead, but it's dying. Parents don't take the time necessary to teach their children anything, let alone manners (of course, I'm speaking in gross generalization here).
How many young men do you see wearing a ball cap in the presence of a lady?
How many young gentleman can tie a tie?
How many youngsters comb their hair, wash their face, brush their teeth in the morning?
How many young men offer their seat to a lady when none are available?
How many american citizens sing "The Star Spangled Banner" with their hands on their hearts when the flag is displayed and a band plays it?
Unfortunately, the answer to these questions sickens me and many other people of upbringing. Much of it comes with discipline. Young parents go wrong when they think their children will get mad if they try to direct or discipline their children. Youngsters CRAVE direction! They WANT to do things correctly.
BUT..... it does take a parent's effort. That is what's lacking.
Well, you're looking at changing times. Where I live, wearing a ballcap is considered highly improper and rude (especially when going out), and no one at all wears a proper hat (simply outfashioned).

Edit: Point taken :D.

Chivalry isn't dead, but it's dying. Parents don't take the time necessary to teach their children anything, let alone manners (of course, I'm speaking in gross generalization here).
How many young men do you see wearing a ball cap in the presence of a lady?
How many young gentleman can tie a tie?
How many youngsters comb their hair, wash their face, brush their teeth in the morning?
How many young men offer their seat to a lady when none are available?
How many american citizens sing "The Star Spangled Banner" with their hands on their hearts when the flag is displayed and a band plays it?
Unfortunately, the answer to these questions sickens me and many other people of upbringing. Much of it comes with discipline. Young parents go wrong when they think their children will get mad if they try to direct or discipline their children. Youngsters CRAVE direction! They WANT to do things correctly.
BUT..... it does take a parent's effort. That is what's lacking.
You assume thoes are nessisary or good things to teach (not saying they are bad) but thinks like taking a baseball cap off and ties (which any male I have ever known past age 12 can do a single or a double) are not really as important as treating people right rather then simple actions that dont nessisarily have meaning behind them

Speaking as a southerner, "southern charm and hospitality" is a myth and simply does not exist. It's just as 'bad' here as it is up in the North (I've visited the north often.)


That said, I don't notice a decline in mannors, perhaps I'm far too young, but I always to try to act in nice ways to other people, regardless of sex (just holding doors open for women is horrid).
I've lived in a lot of different places, thanks to orders from the USMC. I liked the Southeast far more than anywhere else, so I decided to retire here. I do think there are far more "yes, sir", and "yes, ma'am" answers from people around here than anywhere else. So the trappings of manners still exist.

Still, I see people wearing hats indoors, talking during the National Anthem, emptying ashtrays on the streets...I think it's the influx of Yankees.

I've lived in a lot of different places, thanks to orders from the USMC. I liked the Southeast far more than anywhere else, so I decided to retire here. I do think there are far more "yes, sir", and "yes, ma'am" answers from people around here than anywhere else. So the trappings of manners still exist.

Still, I see people wearing hats indoors, talking during the National Anthem, emptying ashtrays on the streets...I think it's the influx of Yankees.
That's delightfully bigoted of you.

im thinking this is kinda funny because over here in "murderapolis" there hasnt been a decline or rise in the amount of courtesy, ill hold doors for ppl if they are within like 5-10 feet of me and saying "no problem" is not worse than saying "your welcome" in any way and its actually better because it is a lot more casual and doesnt make u sound as stiff

That's delightfully bigoted of you.
I'm going to regard that with the same tongue-in-cheek sentiment that I used to describe Yankees.

It's very much in its deaththroes. I don't ascribe to the bullshit of treating women like delicate flowers or some such. Every one should be treated equally with manners, regardless of gender. Also, I don't think that one's elders should automatically be given respect--That's earned, never freely given.

However, I'll hold a door open for people, and say thank you if they do it to me. I use proper table manners, at least in public places. I try to remain civil with people, even if I can't stand them. I use proper phone manners, and don't wax idiotic on a cell phone in public.

It's very much in its deaththroes. I don't ascribe to the bullshit of treating women like delicate flowers or some such. Every one should be treated equally with manners, regardless of gender. Also, I don't think that one's elders should automatically be given respect--That's earned, never freely given.

However, I'll hold a door open for people, and say thank you if they do it to me. I use proper table manners, at least in public places. I try to remain civil with people, even if I can't stand them. I use proper phone manners, and don't wax idiotic on a cell phone in public.
A lot the same here as well

And overall it is your intentions not the flowerily little actions (such as hat wearing) that make the real difference

Thinks like saying “no problem” are cool with me when treated in a similar manner again it is about intentions not the specifics

While I mourn the decline of general kindness, I will dance on the grave of Chivalry when it finally kicks it.

I will not open doors for women, take of my hat in front of women or give up my seat to women, simply because they are women. The proper word for expecting that is sexism. I'll hold doors for anyone if they are a reasonable distance behind me, and give up my seat to the elderly or infirm - those who really need it - but I will not do these things with the rationalization that one sex somehow deserves it, while the other must honor, serve and provide with a smile on their face.

Now general kindness and friendliness seems to be less prolific in our society, and that is a sad situation - on the roads, in the schools, in the workplace, basic honor, kindness and respect is waning. Sadly I can't really see an effective solution.

How many young men do you see wearing a ball cap in the presence of a lady?
How many young gentleman can tie a tie?
How many youngsters comb their hair, wash their face, brush their teeth in the morning?
How many young men offer their seat to a lady when none are available?
How many american citizens sing "The Star Spangled Banner" with their hands on their hearts when the flag is displayed and a band plays it?

None, but I've never seen a lady complain.
Most of the ones I know.
See above.
Admittedly few, but how many women do the same?
What has that got to do with anything?

While I mourn the decline of general kindness, I will dance on the grave of Chivalry when it finally kicks it.

I will not open doors for women, take of my hat in front of women or give up my seat to women, simply because they are women. The proper word for expecting that is sexism. I'll hold doors for anyone if they are a reasonable distance behind me, and give up my seat to the elderly or infirm - those who really need it - but I will not do these things with the rationalization that one sex somehow deserves it, while the other must honor, serve and provide with a smile on their face.

Now general kindness and friendliness seems to be less prolific in our society, and that is a sad situation - on the roads, in the schools, in the workplace, basic honor, kindness and respect is waning. Sadly I can't really see an effective solution.
Hear hear better said then I did

A lot the same here as well

And overall it is your intentions not the flowerily little actions (such as hat wearing) that make the real difference

Thinks like saying “no problem” are cool with me when treated in a similar manner again it is about intentions not the specifics It is correct to act with decorum.
However, to do that while wearing a ball cap inside in front of a lady is wrong. Folks aren't even being taught things like that, many times in the name of "do your own thing", "let it be", or "peace, brother".

While I mourn the decline of general kindness, I will dance on the grave of Chivalry when it finally kicks it.

I will not open doors for women, take of my hat in front of women or give up my seat to women, simply because they are women. The proper word for expecting that is sexism. I'll hold doors for anyone if they are a reasonable distance behind me, and give up my seat to the elderly or infirm - those who really need it - but I will not do these things with the rationalization that one sex somehow deserves it, while the other must honor, serve and provide with a smile on their face.

Now general kindness and friendliness seems to be less prolific in our society, and that is a sad situation - on the roads, in the schools, in the workplace, basic honor, kindness and respect is waning. Sadly I can't really see an effective solution.

Seconded.

None, but I've never seen a lady complain.
Most of the ones I know.
See above.
Admittedly few, but how many women do the same?
What has that got to do with anything?

Answer to your answer (?) #5, we're talking about manners, that's what.

It is correct to act with decorum.
However, to do that while wearing a ball cap inside in front of a lady is wrong. Folks aren't even being taught things like that, many times in the name of "do your own thing", "let it be", or "peace, brother".
And why is wearing a ball cap in front of a lady wrong? When wearing one in front of a man is not?

@_@Aww, it's a shame that chilvary is dead T_T. Chilvarous guys are so hot :fluffle: . Aside from myself, there happens to be a lot of women out there who would love to have a dude that opens doors for them, atleast. ^_^
:eek: :eek:

Seconded.
This is precisely the kind of thinking that is killing chivalry. Chivalry does have to do with manners and treating ladies as the "fairer" sex. If that is sexist, then that is precisely what I am; and proud of it!

This is precisely the kind of thinking that is killing chivalry. Chivalry does have to do with manners and treating ladies as teh "fairer" sex. If that is sexist, then that's is precisely what I am; and proud of it!
Good for you but don’t expect us to morn this sort of behavior

And why is wearing a ball cap in front of a lady wrong? When wearing one in front of a man is not?
Because gentlemen just don't do it!

I wasn't aware that chivalry was alive in the first place. :confused:

Good for you but don’t expect us to morn this sort of behavior

I don't ma'am.

Because gentlemen just don't do it!
Then I am not a gentleman and proud of it ( I have to have a rule to do something as silly as that) treating people with respect and care is a different thing but these little cultural quirks are really not worth my time

Answer to your answer (?) #5, we're talking about manners, that's what.

Talking about manners, we may be but not being patriotic is not unmannerly.

I don't ma'am.
Not a ma`am :)

Then I am not a gentleman and proud of it ( I have to have a rule to do something as silly as that) treating people with respect and care is a different thing but these little cultural quirks are really not worth my time

Help me out here. What does treating people with respect have to do with chivalry? They are two separate things, and we are discussing chivalry on this thread.
I agree with you wholeheartedly about being respectful.

I've lived in a lot of different places, thanks to orders from the USMC. I liked the Southeast far more than anywhere else, so I decided to retire here. I do think there are far more "yes, sir", and "yes, ma'am" answers from people around here than anywhere else. So the trappings of manners still exist.

Still, I see people wearing hats indoors, talking during the National Anthem, emptying ashtrays on the streets...I think it's the influx of Yankees.

Right you are, sir, those damned Yankees!! No, I'm playing, as I am with my title above. But in ALL seriousness, there are a few cultural differences that Southerners in our regional ignorance (fewer Southerners than I would have expected have traveled extensively across this country or out of it) count as qualities of "Southern hospitality." For instance, the "yes, sir's" and "yes,ma'am's" that The King of the Myrmidons pointed out are not really an aspect of chivalry as they are a tradition that pervades the South. We simply haven't moved away from asnwering politely. That doesn't mean wwe know why we do it ;~). Whoever mentioned the "friend" Dorris scenario, who beat her kids or something, was spot on to the problem not just in the South, or in this generation, but with humans in general. It simply takes more effort than the majority of [lazy] people are willing to put forth in order to be courteous and polite to people, ESPECIALLY when they are not around. I'm sure someone will relate to me when I cite examples in my life when one of my friends is ridiculed by whichever other group of friends I am currently hanging with, when the first friend is not around. I'm not saying they would do differently if he/she were there, but they would certainly be more guarded and less harsh. Meanwhile, I'm standing there caught between catching the flame of my present companions and sticking up for my ridiculed friend whom I know not to be guilty of any of their accusations, or playing it safe and not saying a word. I've responded in both ways at different times before, and so I myself have personally evidenced the decline of chivalry. Even in my personal life, I have before not stood up for my friends when they are being attacked verbally, even though I do not agree with what is being said. A truly chivalrous individual would defend the honor of each of his/her friends in any situation. Although, on the note of manners and politeness, the thing is not that the South is more polite than elsewhere in America, but simply put, small towns retain more manners and tradition than larger communities/cities. The South just happens to be largely comprised of small towns and rural communities, which teach their children to address elders a certain way, etc. Manners. Doesn't teach them respect, and that's the problem. What is missing in this world is respect for those who deserve it, and the problem is a general rise in selfishness. No discipline, as has been mentioned earlier. No one group is at fault, for no one ever taught me to hold the door for any fellow human (regardless of sex) who is within 20 or 25 feet of it, or who may possibly be hampered by having to open the door for themselves, but I feel it my duty to my fellow humans to do so. And so at my high school, I was known as "the doorman." I held the door more than anyone else in that 400-person "Christian" school. What drives me crazy is the complete lack of ability of my generation and the one adjacent to mine, but older (who I consider to be a part of my age group), to see beyond their own immediate good, and focus on the common good of all. Chivalry is a step beyond communistic behavior. If only everyone could see that what is good for all benefits all, INCLUDING THEMSELVES, then this world would not even have a need for chivalry.

Help me out here. What does treating people with respect have to do with chivalry? They are two separate things, and we are discussing chivalry on this thread.
I agree with you wholeheartedly about being respectful.
It doesn’t I just pointed it out because I put a much higher weight on respect then most aspects of chivalry

This is precisely the kind of thinking that is killing chivalry. Chivalry does have to do with manners and treating ladies as the "fairer" sex. If that is sexist, then that is precisely what I am; and proud of it!

Don't expect those of us who are women not to laugh when we curse like sailors and then our companions do it and you complain that they "Shouldn't curse in front of a lady." hehe

Talking about manners, we may be but not being patriotic is not unmannerly.

You don't have to be patriotic to know what to do when the National Anthem is played. There is a right way and a wrong way to act. It has to do with upbringing, very little to do with patriotism actually. There are preschoolers who've already been taught proper flag etiquette and they know nothing at all of patriotism.

Don't expect those of us who are women not to laugh when we curse like sailors and then our companions do it and you complain that they "Shouldn't curse in front of a lady." hehe

I don't think you and I would get along very well. Sorry.

I don't think you and I would get along very well. Sorry.
That’s ok cause me and her get along great ;)

I've noticed that, Southern hospitality and charm notwithstanding, there is a real lack of manners in the world. Aggressive drivers are just the most dangerous example of a problem that seems to be getting worse as time goes by. I saw a t-shirt the other day that said "It's all about me -- deal with it". That's kind of blunt, but I think a lot of us wear those shirts figuratively, anyway.

When's the last time you pushed in your chair after a meeting, or a meal at a restaurant, at the library, or even at home? I hold doors open all the time and I only rarely get a thank you for the effort. That's probably because good manners used to be taught here and they're taking a little longer to become obsolete. Even when I say 'thank you' for a service, I'm more likely to get a reply like 'no problem', rather than 'your welcome'.

Lastly, I was in the airport this weekend. I don't think anyone remembers what a trash can is for. Newspapers and food wrappers were strewn all over the gate. It's easy to carry the stuff to your seat, it's just as easy to carry it to a trash can.

[/rant]

Thank you for your "rant" (I don't consider it that!!!).
Anyway, I can so feel with you.
I've noticed the same over here in Germany. Apparently, teaching manners is as outdated as being a gentleman is in fashion. You oughta see what strange faces people make when you open the door for them, offer them a chair, actually dump your trash into a bin instead of just dropping it where you stand. It's just little things, but they make living a lot more pleasant. Like taking your tray to the trayholder once your finished eating, be that at McD. or at the university caféteria. Not playing your stereo at full blast while riding the bus or train.
Just like one of those topics on NationStates - if people talk shit or misbehave , you'd just smack them one. You wouldn't believe how many times I felt like screwing some person's head off just because they behave like ignorant, selfcentered assholes!!! Then again, what am I to do with 1000s of heads anyway? (Build a throne, I know - Blood for the Blood God and Skulls for His Throne :D:D:D)
Well, glad I got that off my chest - it's been brewing there for quite some time and I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that trend and disapproves of it!

You don't have to be patriotic to know what to do when the National Anthem is played. There is a right way and a wrong way to act. It has to do with upbringing, very little to do with patriotism actually. There are preschoolers who've already been taught proper flag etiquette and they know nothing at all of patriotism.

Hmm...you have won this battle...

...but I shall return again!

To not bother using my knife!

To not tip my hat to a lady!

To fart without apology!

Fear my rudeness!

As a female, I don't in the least mourn the death of chivalry - honestly, I can't imagine why I'd care if someone wore a baseball hat in front of me, and I'd go nuts if I had to wait in a car for someone to come around and open my door for me. I have hands and feet and I'm perfectly capable of performing basic tasks for myself.

That being said, I do very much mourn the death of good manners. The number of people who'll let doors slam shut on you, blow smoke in your face, physically push past you in lines, talk on their cell phones in movies, and so forth is just ridiculous. I don't know why so many people seem to think the world revolves around them...

Don't expect those of us who are women not to laugh when we curse like sailors and then our companions do it and you complain that they "Shouldn't curse in front of a lady." hehe

I agree with Dorksonia. I was taught that the true definition of a "lady" is "a woman who does her best to make those around her as comfortable as possible." I adhere to that standard. There are several women in the world who I would not call "ladies." Chivalry is not about honoring women--it is about honoring ladies. A woman who swears like a sailor, refuses to acknowledge that women and men have any differences whatsoever, and basically denies her femininity in favor of following today's trends of "individuality is the utmost goal, even at the expense of the common good" is not a lady. I, being female, appreciate it when a man holds the door open for me, but I don't get upset if it isn't done, and I hold the door open for people behind me regardless. I try not to swear, and while I don't get upset at the occasional cussword from a male companion I will not stand for it without reason. I particulalry get upset when I see cussing children. I didn't hear a cussword except in the movies until I was 16 years old. Parents need to take responsibility for their children. Chivalry is dying, but it is merely a side effect of our culture and society dying as well. I forget who said it, but the one who said that he wouldn't honor the elderly merely for being elderly because respect must be earned...most of the elderly people I know have earned it. They have lived their lives to the best of their abilities. That, in and of itself, is worthy of respect.

I don't think you and I would get along very well. Sorry.

You might be surprised. I don't really curse like a sailor.

I did, however, get a huge kick out of it when I was sitting in a hallway with a bunch of guy friends and a "fine Southern gentleman" (who dressed up in full Confederate uniform on Robert E. Lee's bday every year - just bout the only time he wore shoes). One of the guys I was hanging out with said something or other that I'm pretty sure I had said myself within the last ten minutes, and the "fine Southern gentleman" replied with "You shouldn't say that in front of a lady."

I really couldn't help but laugh.

honestly, I can't imagine why I'd care if someone wore a baseball hat in front of me,

Yeah, especially if they had hat hair. Hat hair is much more rude than just wearing the hat. =)

I agree with Dorksonia. I was taught that the true definition of a "lady" is "a woman who does her best to make those around her as comfortable as possible." I adhere to that standard.

Most people aren't going to be comfortable if you're being prissy and stuck-up.

and basically denies her femininity in favor of following today's trends of "individuality is the utmost goal, even at the expense of the common good" is not a lady.

If being her own person means that she doesn't act like your version of femininity, she isn't really denying her femininity, now is she? She is being herself, and you are trying to fit her into a little box.

@_@Aww, it's a shame that chilvary is dead T_T. Chilvarous guys are so hot :fluffle: . Aside from myself, there happens to be a lot of women out there who would love to have a dude that opens doors for them, atleast. ^_^
:eek: :eek:
This is precisely the kind of thinking that is killing chivalry. Chivalry does have to do with manners and treating ladies as the "fairer" sex. If that is sexist, then that is precisely what I am; and proud of it!
I think too many men are forgetting some of the perks of chivalry in today's world: when you honor women with a higher priority by doing even the most painstakingly little "chivalrous" things, such as removing a hat, giving up a seat, holding the door, or (my personal favorite) helping them up and down steep stairs or steps (I love it because I am the only person I have ever seen this day and age who does this, and it astounds the ladies when I do), then you gain the attention and respect of those women, and they view you some, as Saakura said, HOTT, and some, as the most noble men to ever grace their presence, and they only wish that their boyfriends would show them such courtesy. It is in every man's best interests to go as far out of his way as possible to show "sexist" courtesy to a woman, in the name of chivalry or being a gentleman or what you will, because despite how people look at you, another perk that I have not yet mentioned is that women are the ones who please the men. Why would I not give up my seat for another man? Because he should be giving up his seat for a woman and finding his own as I do the same. I also remember that that man will in no time in any future be in any sort of position to please me, if you know what I'm saying. But most women find gentlemen very attractive. ::nudge nudge:: So although I try to be a chivalrous gentleman because it benefits others and it's no trouble to me ("no problem," starter), there is the side bonus that when I find a girlfriend, I will distinguish myself in her mind by my treatment of her. What women actually minds receiving "sexist" treatment from a man? If we're doing you a favor who are you to complain, and if other men protest such "favoritist" treatment, I think they're just jealous because we gentlemen are the ones looking like the pimps because of all the smiles and thank yous we get. In this world, as devoid of gentlemen as ever, those of us who try at least halfway to uphold honor and respect look even better than ever ;~)

A woman who swears like a sailor, refuses to acknowledge that women and men have any differences whatsoever, and basically denies her femininity in favor of following today's trends of "individuality is the utmost goal, even at the expense of the common good" is not a lady.

But why should a woman be patronised due to a pair of ovaries?

I agree with Dorksonia. I was taught that the true definition of a "lady" is "a woman who does her best to make those around her as comfortable as possible." I adhere to that standard. There are several women in the world who I would not call "ladies." Chivalry is not about honoring women--it is about honoring ladies. A woman who swears like a sailor, refuses to acknowledge that women and men have any differences whatsoever, and basically denies her femininity in favor of following today's trends of "individuality is the utmost goal, even at the expense of the common good" is not a lady. I, being female, appreciate it when a man holds the door open for me, but I don't get upset if it isn't done, and I hold the door open for people behind me regardless. I try not to swear, and while I don't get upset at the occasional cussword from a male companion I will not stand for it without reason. I particulalry get upset when I see cussing children. I didn't hear a cussword except in the movies until I was 16 years old. Parents need to take responsibility for their children. Chivalry is dying, but it is merely a side effect of our culture and society dying as well. I forget who said it, but the one who said that he wouldn't honor the elderly merely for being elderly because respect must be earned...most of the elderly people I know have earned it. They have lived their lives to the best of their abilities. That, in and of itself, is worthy of respect.
Ahhh so you want women to fit in your nice definition of what is lady like

Sorry bub but ladies can work as hard play as hard and swear as much as any man
THAT deserves my respect … doing their best
Not doing their best within the confines you set for proper behavior for them

Individualnost and Tyne -

You are honorable folks. Thanks for assuring me of my belief that proper manners ARE proper indeed, and appreciated by and helpful to many!

Mein Got! Did I just see a number of posters actually COMPLIMENT people living in the South, with only a small amount of sarcasm detectable?!
*has a heart attack, dies*

Seriously now.

Yeah, manners are basicaly dead.
Although I should point out that 'no problem' was officialy added to the list of correct replies to 'your welcome' in the 80's, because the 70's generation had been using it from birth and werent about to stop.
As for pulling out chairs and such, I do it for my mom at resturaunts and important dinners and such, unless somebody gets to it first.
Im always as polite as possible to serving-people, whatever the PC term is these days, I say 'thank you' when they offer to bring me a refil and all that sort of thing. I usualy tip more to people working at the end of a shift (if I know that its the end of a shift), simply because I can sympathise with a hard day and all that.

But yes, in much of society this sort of thing is viewed as 'wierd' or, worse, as my being a 'suckup' for what, twenty years ago, was 'basic politeness'.
Its my parents fault :P

Help me out here. What does treating people with respect have to do with chivalry? They are two separate things, and we are discussing chivalry on this thread.
I agree with you wholeheartedly about being respectful.
Quick definition

Chivalrous:
marked by honor, generosity, and courtesy b : marked by gracious courtesy and high-minded consideration especially to women

I think that leaves room for respect, but it definitely requires manners.

There is at least one young man in Atlanta that is as chivalrous as the knights of old. I'm the indirect recipient of his kindness to my wife.

We are having a new roof put on the house. The roofers have torn off all the shingles and have finished about a third of the roof. The house is covered in tarps and the yard still has a good number of shingles lying about. There is also a small dumpster sitting in the driveway, filled with debris. We kind of look like hurricane victims, but there hasn't been anything but rain near Atlanta.

Our garage door started binding in the tracks, so I called the company that installed it. I thought the door was still under warranty, so I figured it would be smarter to have them fix it than to have me hack at it forever. They send the repairman at a time when I've got customers in the plant, so my dear wife meets the fellow and shows him the problem.

Our hero fixes the binding, replaces some electrical components, and makes sure the other door works the way it should. He doesn't say a word to my wife the whole time. When he finishes, he tells her that it's fixed. He also almost whispers that there is a charge for some of the parts he replaced, but 'you look like you have enough problems, so I won't charge you for it'. Then our knight mounts his pickup truck and heads into the sunset.

Hurray! Someone does a favor for someone else. I'll call the company in the morning and try to straighten out the charges, but the repairman sure had his heart in the right place.

Oh yeah, he was Southern, too.