NationStates Jolt Archive

There are those people who are so blinded by hatred for anyone who would dare criticize the way things are done in the US that they attempt to demonize those they see as standing in opposition. And then there are these morons (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8510677/), who take irrational hatred to the next level.

Michael Moore is helping to put together a film festival in Traverse City, Michigan. It's not a Bash-Bush-fest, and none of Moore's films are being shown--he's merely helping with the organization of the festival. And yet, the wingnuts just can't help themselves, because to them, if it involves Moore, it means there's some America-hating going on.
A local activist and a conservative group from Texas said Wednesday they were putting together an alternative to the Traverse City Film Festival, which Moore and residents of this Lake Michigan community are organizing.

“People are fed up and tired with the extreme left-wing radical fringe — America haters, family haters, Christian haters,” said Genie Aldrich, a resident of nearby Suttons Bay and founder of the Traverse Bay Freedom Film Festival. She tried unsuccessfully last month to dissuade the city commission from letting Moore’s group show films in a municipal waterfront park.

So what sort of America-hating films will the Traverse City Film Festival be screening? Here's the complete list. (http://www.traversecityfilmfestival.org/) It includes such liberal classics like Jaws, Casablanca, Ferris Bueller's Day Off and The Princess Bride. It's got those "Blame America First" screeds like Enron:The Smartest Guys in the Room, Gunner Palace, and Grizzly Man. And of course, they're screening the wildly subversive Mad hot Ballroom, the documentary about inner city kids who compete as ballroom dancers.

I know it's difficult for right-wingers to grasp this, seeing as they're all wrapped up in their easy right/wrong dichotomy, but just because you disagree with someone, even vehemently, that doesn't mean that they're evil, or that they hate America, or that everything they touch is necessarily tainted by their political beliefs. Sometimes a film festival is just a film festival.

There are those people who are so blinded by hatred for anyone who would dare criticize the way things are done in the US that they attempt to demonize those they see as standing in opposition. And then there are these morons (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8510677/), who take irrational hatred to the next level.

Michael Moore is helping to put together a film festival in Traverse City, Michigan. It's not a Bash-Bush-fest, and none of Moore's films are being shown--he's merely helping with the organization of the festival. And yet, the wingnuts just can't help themselves, because to them, if it involves Moore, it means there's some America-hating going on.


So what sort of America-hating films will the Traverse City Film Festival be screening? Here's the complete list. (http://www.traversecityfilmfestival.org/) It includes such liberal classics like Jaws, Casablanca, Ferris Bueller's Day Off and The Princess Bride. It's got those "Blame America First" screeds like Enron:The Smartest Guys in the Room, Gunner Palace, and Grizzly Man. And of course, they're screening the wildly subversive Mad hot Ballroom, the documentary about inner city kids who compete as ballroom dancers.

I know it's difficult for right-wingers to grasp this, seeing as they're all wrapped up in their easy right/wrong dichotomy, but just because you disagree with someone, even vehemently, that doesn't mean that they're evil, or that they hate America, or that everything they touch is necessarily tainted by their political beliefs. Sometimes a film festival is just a film festival.

TLDR

Actually, I did read it. But I shouldnt have.

There are those people who are so blinded by hatred for anyone who would dare criticize the way things are done in the US that they attempt to demonize those they see as standing in opposition. And then there are these morons (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8510677/), who take irrational hatred to the next level.

Michael Moore is helping to put together a film festival in Traverse City, Michigan. It's not a Bash-Bush-fest, and none of Moore's films are being shown--he's merely helping with the organization of the festival. And yet, the wingnuts just can't help themselves, because to them, if it involves Moore, it means there's some America-hating going on.


So what sort of America-hating films will the Traverse City Film Festival be screening? Here's the complete list. (http://www.traversecityfilmfestival.org/) It includes such liberal classics like Jaws, Casablanca, Ferris Bueller's Day Off and The Princess Bride. It's got those "Blame America First" screeds like Enron:The Smartest Guys in the Room, Gunner Palace, and Grizzly Man. And of course, they're screening the wildly subversive Mad hot Ballroom, the documentary about inner city kids who compete as ballroom dancers.

I know it's difficult for right-wingers to grasp this, seeing as they're all wrapped up in their easy right/wrong dichotomy, but just because you disagree with someone, even vehemently, that doesn't mean that they're evil, or that they hate America, or that everything they touch is necessarily tainted by their political beliefs. Sometimes a film festival is just a film festival.


Does seem an over the top reaction specially considering none of his own work is shown (and who can hate princess bride)

Does seem an over the top reaction specially considering none of his own work is shown (and who can hate princess bride)
Yeah, well, when it comes to political partisanship, there's plenty of stupid to go around.

Anyone else notice that Moore only became a whipping boy for the right after Bowling for Columbine, which was the first time he really went after what the right considers their territory (and was a bit surprising, since he didn't make the argument that gun ownership was the problem)? Nobody on the right gave him much thought for Roger and Me or for his other films, as far as I recall. In The Ugly Truth, I remember Clinton coming in for some pretty harsh treatment--nobody on the right worried about that.

And Americans wonder why we laugh at them as a people, and dread them as a superpower...

Not implying there's a higher concentration of stupid people in the US than elsewhere, but really.. You only have yourself to blame for the bad rep :p

Looks just like another independent film festival to me.

that doesn't mean that they're evil, or that they hate America, or that everything they touch is necessarily tainted by their political beliefs.


You have to remember that this the same guy who thinks Insurgents are the "minutemen" of Iraq, that there is no terrorists, small businesses are a problem, and Americans are morons. He pretends to be part of the 'middle class blue collar worker' while making millions of dollars off based on movies that classify themselves as 'documentries' despite making up 'facts' and clever use of video editing.

I can see why the right hates his guts. The only reason why that fat bastard wants to get rid of guns is because he knows that knives won't go through his blubber.

Canada City']You have to remember that this the same guy who thinks Insurgents are the "minutemen" of Iraq, that there is no terrorists, small businesses are a problem, and Americans are morons. He pretends to be part of the 'middle class blue collar worker' while making millions of dollars off based on movies that classify themselves as 'documentries' despite making up 'facts' and clever use of video editing.

I can see why the right hates his guts. The only reason why that fat bastard wants to get rid of guns is because he knows that knives won't go through his blubber.
Wow--what a way to completely miss the point, while simultaneously misrepresenting nearly everything you accused Moore of doing.

Still, thanks for proving the point of this thread.

Canada City']You have to remember that this the same guy who thinks Insurgents are the "minutemen" of Iraq, that there is no terrorists, small businesses are a problem, and Americans are morons. He pretends to be part of the 'middle class blue collar worker' while making millions of dollars off based on movies that classify themselves as 'documentries' despite making up 'facts' and clever use of video editing.

I can see why the right hates his guts. The only reason why that fat bastard wants to get rid of guns is because he knows that knives won't go through his blubber.
And we have a ringer.

Canada City']You have to remember that this the same guy who thinks Insurgents are the "minutemen" of Iraq, that there is no terrorists, small businesses are a problem, and Americans are morons. He pretends to be part of the 'middle class blue collar worker' while making millions of dollars off based on movies that classify themselves as 'documentries' despite making up 'facts' and clever use of video editing.

I can see why the right hates his guts. The only reason why that fat bastard wants to get rid of guns is because he knows that knives won't go through his blubber.
You see, you're the type of person who would boycott the film festival simply because he helped organize it.

But really, we all know that they're justified- Casablanca is just littered with anti-Bush messages. It's propoganda is what it is!

If you expected Moore to get any positive press, you're sadly mistaken. Without massive apologies, a third the nation isn't going to trust him regardless of his intentions. Of course, another third is going to worship whatever he does, no matter how far off base it is. (;)) Then, there's that final third with will cheerfully ignore him like the mental gnat he is.

In short, there's idiots aplenty around.

Well, remember ... this is America ... land of the Free ... where everyone has Freedom of Speech .... except Michael Moore and anyone who enjoys his work or even comes close to agreeing with him.

Besides ... I liked Canadian Bacon. Funny stuff.

I don't see the problem. They're the same as the America bashers - same character flaw, different ideology. Like the poor, the bashers have always been with us.

"People are fed up and tired with the extreme left-wing radical fringe — America haters, family haters, Christian haters,” said Genie Aldrich
:rolleyes:

“These are highly acclaimed films,” Moore said. “Theirs are works of political propaganda.”
And you would never doing anything like that, right Michael?

Canada City']I can see why the right hates his guts. The only reason why that fat bastard wants to get rid of guns is because he knows that knives won't go through his blubber.
This is one of the funniest things I've ever read. Well done!

Well, remember ... this is America ... land of the Free ... where everyone has Freedom of Speech .... except Michael Moore and anyone who enjoys his work or even comes close to agreeing with him.

Besides ... I liked Canadian Bacon. Funny stuff.



Did someone take away Michael Moore's freedom of speech when I wasnt looking?
He hasnt been censored or arrested or stopped from producing by any government agency.
We have just been hearing the freedom of speech from people that dont agree with him, thats all. I have yet to see anything he wants to do unfairly supressed by anyone.

And you would never doing anything like that, right Michael?
I don't think that is the point. It is certainly true that Michael Moore makes films that fit his agenda. But this film festival had nothing whatsoever to do with his films, it is simply a film festival, with films unrelated to him. They haveated an alternative to something that doesn't exist in the first place, the alleged left-wing propaganda being shown, when there really is none being shown, just films of all sorts.

There are those people who are so blinded by hatred for anyone who would dare criticize the way things are done in the US that they attempt to demonize those they see as standing in opposition. And then there are these morons (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8510677/), who take irrational hatred to the next level.

Michael Moore is helping to put together a film festival in Traverse City, Michigan. It's not a Bash-Bush-fest, and none of Moore's films are being shown--he's merely helping with the organization of the festival. And yet, the wingnuts just can't help themselves, because to them, if it involves Moore, it means there's some America-hating going on.


So what sort of America-hating films will the Traverse City Film Festival be screening? Here's the complete list. (http://www.traversecityfilmfestival.org/) It includes such liberal classics like Jaws, Casablanca, Ferris Bueller's Day Off and The Princess Bride. It's got those "Blame America First" screeds like Enron:The Smartest Guys in the Room, Gunner Palace, and Grizzly Man. And of course, they're screening the wildly subversive Mad hot Ballroom, the documentary about inner city kids who compete as ballroom dancers.

I know it's difficult for right-wingers to grasp this, seeing as they're all wrapped up in their easy right/wrong dichotomy, but just because you disagree with someone, even vehemently, that doesn't mean that they're evil, or that they hate America, or that everything they touch is necessarily tainted by their political beliefs. Sometimes a film festival is just a film festival.

Michael Moore is just a film maker. He admitted flat out the "Fahrenheit 9/11" was just his opinion. Its realy very simple, he made a film he wanted to see. If you dont like a film, for example I hated titanic, then dont see it. If you want to make a film against moore than do so. This is America you have that option. I'm sure he has made many people angry, but the fact is I believe part of his agenda was to get a stir out of people. I have seen the film, some parts I like some I didnt, some parts I laughed some parts I almost cried. I dont blindly follow him, just as I dont blindly follow government. If Texas wants to have a film festival, then so be it, this is America. I mean if you want to get technical the election is over and bush won, so I dont know why the country is still so divided, its like were all still in "election mode", I am guilty of this myself, but we have free enterprise in this country, so people can make really any kind of film they want. I'm sure the K.K.K. has made movies, I would never watch one because I would never support that, but I'm sure its been done. But lets not forget that moore has said some bad things about liberals too, he called the democrats "The lamest excuse for a party" and "Fahrenheit 9/11" attacks democrats too. From what I have seen of Moore, he seem to be more of an independent than anything. Not that I believe he speaks for all independents or anything. Well I'm sure this is going to be a hostile thread, so I'm not trying to make anyone think anything. This is just how I see it.

Did someone take away Michael Moore's freedom of speech when I wasnt looking?

A lot of people would dearly like to.

He hasnt been censored or arrested or stopped from producing by any government agency.

Extremism isn't the only way to supress freedoms. Wake up.

But lets not forget that moore has said some bad things about liberals too, he called the democrats "The lamest excuse for a party" and "Fahrenheit 9/11" attacks democrats too. From what I have seen of Moore, he seem to be more of an independent than anything. Not that I believe he speaks for all independents or anything. Well I'm sure this is going to be a hostile thread, so I'm not trying to make anyone think anything. This is just how I see it.
That's what people forget. He's railed on Clinton and his failed foreign policies. He's out to advocate the truth, not any political party. His big tour during the campaign season of 2004, he just happened to support the Democrats because he saw fallacy in what the Republicans were doing. If the Democrats were in power and making America worse, I'm sure he would've supported the Republicans in 2004.

Here is the screening schedule for the Traverse Bay Freedom Film Festival.

Click (http://www.afrfilmfestival.com/fff.html)

It includes such cinematic classics as "In The Face of Evil: Reagan's War in Word and Deed", "Top Gun", "Charlotte's Web", and "Michael Moore Hates America".

you know, i havnt read or heard anything about michael moore lately, but i honestly wouldnt be suprised if he decided to have a non-political film festival just because he knew(or maybe had strong suspicions) that his dissenters would get all riled up.

or maybe he was just doing a film festival.

if he was doing it to get people stirred up, i think its brilliant. :) granted, im slightly biased, i like most of his stuff ive seen (started with tv nation and the 'corporate crime-fighting chicken'
but i realize he is highly biased with some things, and i dont agree with all of his tactics/methods.

but i think troublemakers are important, even necessary for a democracy to run properly.

i also like the woman who does the 'democracy now!' radio show (sorry, cant remember her name right now) shes even gotten kicked off of pbs:)

Your going to tell me with a straight face that a bunch of crazed lefties wouldnt do the same thing if, say, Rush Limbaugh was going to the same festival?

Your going to tell me with a straight face that a bunch of crazed lefties wouldnt do the same thing if, say, Rush Limbaugh was going to the same festival?
Nope but does that make what happened here right or sane?

Nope but does that make what happened here right or sane?
Nope, it makes it the actions of people, most of whom arent right or sane in the first place ;)

Nope, it makes it the actions of people, most of whom arent right or sane in the first place ;)
Not going to argue with you there lol

A lot of people would dearly like to.



Extremism isn't the only way to supress freedoms. Wake up.


The fact is, Michael Moore's freedom of speech has in no way been infringed upon-quite the opposite, actually. He continues to enjoy his freedom of speech and has recieved both awards and healthy proceeds from what he has done.

You were implying he had somehow been restricted.

He hasnt been supressed. He is thriving.

You need to wake up.

You need to wake up.

"No, you are!"

Brilliant!

"No, you are!"

Brilliant!


You made believe his freedom of speech was somehow being restricted and danced around when I said it wasnt.

You suggest that I "wake up" ?

Did you have some sort of argument, or this is all you've got?

Anyone else notice that Moore only became a whipping boy for the right after Bowling for Columbine, which was the first time he really went after what the right considers their territory (and was a bit surprising, since he didn't make the argument that gun ownership was the problem)? Nobody on the right gave him much thought for Roger and Me or for his other films, as far as I recall. In The Ugly Truth, I remember Clinton coming in for some pretty harsh treatment--nobody on the right worried about that.
I've seen R&M, which isn't that bad of a film, although quite honestly he went after the wrong company for what he was complaining about. The outright lies and deceptive film editing that were easily evident to anyone paying attention to BfC or F9/11 were not present. As for TUT I haven't seen it so I couldn't tell you whether it was in the same style as R&M or the latter two.

Here is the screening schedule for the Traverse Bay Freedom Film Festival.

Click (http://www.afrfilmfestival.com/fff.html)

It includes such cinematic classics as "In The Face of Evil: Reagan's War in Word and Deed", "Top Gun", "Charlotte's Web", and "Michael Moore Hates America".
You missed perhaps one of the more subtle and telling inclusions into the 'freedom' festival-On the Waterfront.

While most people consider it to just be a tradmark Brando role ("I coulda been somebody, I coulda been a contender...), what makes it's inclusion in the 'Freedom' festival telling is the filmmaker and the context under which he did the film.

Elia Kazan was a communist, you see. Or at least he fought for labor issues, depending on when you asked him-but he played in the premiere of the play Waiting For Lefty, a pro-union play that ends with the cast calling "STRIKE STRIKE STRIKE!!!" The audience stood and yelled with them and Kazan openly cried.

But then came HUAC. And Kazan folded, gave names. Ruined lives. In a way to explain himself he made On the Waterfront, where former boxer now dock worker Brando must decide whether or not to snitch, 'tell' on his fellow dock workers.

This film, this appology for turning in his friends, this argument for turning in your friends, is what is included in the 'Freedom' festival. Way to show your hand, guys. Nice job.

The other film festival has a great line up-a new film by Wim Wenders and Warner Herzog? I wish I could go. It sounds fantastic.

I'm sure the K.K.K. has made movies, I would never watch one because I would never support that, but I'm sure its been done.
Birth of a Nation (http://imdb.com/title/tt0004972/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxsbT01MDB8dHQ9MXxmYj11fHBuPTB8cT1iaXJ0aCBvZiBhIG5hdGlvbnxodG1sPTF8bm09MQ__;fc= 3;ft=20;fm=1) by D.W. Griffith, also known (sort of) as The Clansman. While a landmark in narrative filmmaking, it was about the heroic rise of the Klan after the Civil War. So, yes there has been one (though not made directly by them) but it's also one of the highest regarded films (content aside) in the canon.

Did someone take away Michael Moore's freedom of speech when I wasnt looking?
He hasnt been censored or arrested or stopped from producing by any government agency.
We have just been hearing the freedom of speech from people that dont agree with him, thats all. I have yet to see anything he wants to do unfairly supressed by anyone.

I wouldnt censore Michael Moore if I were even given the power to do so. I really dislike his attitude towards our nation though. I say let him be. It reminds me of everything I dont want to be.

He's out to advocate the truth, not any political party.
Peculiar brand of truth you have there.

http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/

http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/bullshit.htm

The second link is to an mpeg of Penn and Teller's show bullshit, specifically the segment coming up on gun control. It stars MM.


The discounted Kellerman numbers are also quoted

Peculiar brand of truth you have there.

http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/

http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/bullshit.htm

The second link is to an mpeg of Penn and Teller's show bullshit, specifically the segment coming up on gun control
No more peculiar than the one the current administration is feeding us.

You see, you're the type of person who would boycott the film festival simply because he helped organize it.

But really, we all know that they're justified- Casablanca is just littered with anti-Bush messages. It's propoganda is what it is!
I would boycott anything Michael Moore organized, participated in, or even just attended.

I would boycott anything Michael Moore organized, participated in, or even just attended.
mmmmm...rationality....

mmmmm...rationality....
isn't it great to have it back?

isn't it great to have it back?
Sarcasm is a very difficult thing to do with text.

mmmmm...rationality....
Well, at least I could think of a name. :D

Sarcasm is a very difficult thing to do with text.
indeed it is

I would boycott anything Michael Moore organized, participated in, or even just attended.
I will join you on that Boycott.

I will respect M.M's right to free speech. but you have to respect our right to respond to his actions and the products of his excercising of his freedoms, for that's our right also.

I will join you on that Boycott.

I will respect M.M's right to free speech. but you have to respect our right to respond to his actions and the products of his excercising of his freedoms, for that's our right also.
Certianly that is your right, and with Moore it is an easy one-simply don't go to his films. However, to go so far as to boycott anything he attends, thus punishing the author of a different work for the sin of allowing the public in, or to boycott an event where he did not contribute content but rather helped to make the festival materially possible-that is an act of irrational hatred that, while still within your rights, says more about the boycotter than the boycotted.

Certianly that is your right, and with Moore it is an easy one-simply don't go to his films. However, to go so far as to boycott anything he attends, thus punishing the author of a different work for the sin of allowing the public in, or to boycott an event where he did not contribute content but rather helped to make the festival materially possible-that is an act of irrational hatred that, while still within your rights, says more about the boycotter than the boycotted.
Once again, you are totally off the mark.

I bear the corpulent Mr. Moore no hatred whatsoever. He is, however, IMHO, a master at lying via the cutting room floor and actively seeks to undermine most of what I believe in. Ergo, I have no desire to even be at the same event as him. I realize that probably won't make much sense to you, but as even you aver, I am well within my rights to avoid him whenever possible.

Once again, you are totally off the mark.

I bear the corpulent Mr. Moore no hatred whatsoever. He is, however, IMHO, a master at lying via the cutting room floor and actively seeks to undermine most of what I believe in. Ergo, I have no desire to even be at the same event as him. I realize that probably won't make much sense to you, but as even you aver, I am well within my rights to avoid him whenever possible.
Are you afraid that by being in the same public space as you he will completely undermine your existance? By, and I can only guess this by your reasoning, editing you? Certainly would be cause to not grant him an interview, but to share space at a public event, frankly that is an irrational hatred no matter what kind of dress and bow you put on it.

Seems to me that you would allow him a rather large dictation over your life, as his mere presence will bar you from an event.

Still, I don't see how giving me your (predictable) reasons for not liking him in anyway refutes what I said.

Once again, you are totally off the mark.

I bear the corpulent Mr. Moore no hatred whatsoever. He is, however, IMHO, a master at lying via the cutting room floor and actively seeks to undermine most of what I believe in. Ergo, I have no desire to even be at the same event as him. I realize that probably won't make much sense to you, but as even you aver, I am well within my rights to avoid him whenever possible.

So if you see him in the same store as you, you will never patronize that store again? Wow. I think I've found a way to manipulate a fair chunk of the consumer population. Get MM lookalikes in all the rival stores. =p

Certianly that is your right, and with Moore it is an easy one-simply don't go to his films. However, to go so far as to boycott anything he attends, thus punishing the author of a different work for the sin of allowing the public in, or to boycott an event where he did not contribute content but rather helped to make the festival materially possible-that is an act of irrational hatred that, while still within your rights, says more about the boycotter than the boycotted.the purpose of the Boycott (for me anyway) is to Alienate Micheal Moore, making it costly for anyone to be associated with him, then no. (besides, it's not like I CAN attend the event anyway... me being in Hawaii and all. :D )

Others who were caught altering the truth or even lying (purposly or not) have appologied. those I've forgiven, but M.M's productions are lies, even by people who he used to get those lies complained and he never once appologied nor did he make any attempts to "walk the narrow path of truth" with his later projects. he honestly thinks that he is correct while staning over his taped interviews with a pair of siccors.

Micheal Moore has proven (to me anyway) unable to participate in any event without turning it into a testimonial for his "altered" truths. And in this case, I am specifically stating that I am against MM's participation, not against the event itself.

the purpose of the Boycott is to Alienate Micheal Moore, making it costly for anyone to be associated with him, then no. (besides, it's not like I CAN attend the event anyway... me being in Hawaii and all. :D )

Others who were caught altering the truth or even lying (purposly or not) have appologied. those I've forgiven, but M.M's productions are lies, even by people who he used to get those lies complained and he never once appologied nor did he make any attempts to "walk the narrow path of truth" with his later projects. he honestly thinks that he is correct while staning over his taped interviews with a pair of siccors.

Micheal Moore has proven (to me anyway) unable to participate in any event without turning it into a testimonial for his "altered" truths. And in this case, I am specifically stating that I am against MM's participation, not against the event itself.
This at the very least is more thought out and articulated than the other boycotter, so you get points for that. And I suspect that a lot of peoples boycotts of this are like yours, in the same vien as my boycott of Nike or SUVs, I don't wear sneakers and have never been in the market for a new car so is it a boycott or just not buying...

This thread could easily devolve into the normal and pointless "Fat Bastard" and "It's not a documentary" waste of time so I am specifically not addressing complaints against Moore's films.

I would argue, especially looking over the website for the festival, that he has done nothing to further his agenda with it except to expose people to the joy and expression of film. Seems much to me to punish a film festival that looks for help where ever it can get it over a partisan debate. But thats just me.

In the long run, it's the people with the frothing hatred that make Moore's participation worth its weight in gold. I'm a filmmaker and I hadn't heard of this festival until he was involved, and only because someone in Texas decided to have a problem with it. Looks like mission accomplished. Moore need not spend a dime to promote anything he does, just send a press release to the right and let them do his work for him.

I know it's difficult for right-wingers to grasp this, seeing as they're all wrapped up in their easy right/wrong dichotomy, but just because you disagree with someone, even vehemently, that doesn't mean that they're evil, or that they hate America, or that everything they touch is necessarily tainted by their political beliefs. Sometimes a film festival is just a film festival.

This is exactly why these people are having the alternative festival. Michael Moore's warped view has been presented as fact, by him, and this view is that Republicans - specifically the Bush administration - is evil, hates America, and everything they touch is destroyed because of their political beliefs. Some people think Michael Moore is a liar and a propagandist based on what he has said and created. This group is expressing their opinion, and portraying it as such, which is more than can be said of Michael Moore.

I would argue, especially looking over the website for the festival, that he has done nothing to further his agenda with it except to expose people to the joy and expression of film. Seems much to me to punish a film festival that looks for help where ever it can get it over a partisan debate. But thats just me.

Michael Moore has shown again and again that whatever he endorses or participates in becomes a soapbox for him to spew his falsehoods or a bullet to add to his resume. He is simply trying to get his name out there again which in and of itself isn't a bad thing, but I've seen through his veil of "truth" and realize his incapability to be honest.

This at the very least is more thought out and articulated than the other boycotter, so you get points for that. And I suspect that a lot of peoples boycotts of this are like yours, in the same vien as my boycott of Nike or SUVs, I don't wear sneakers and have never been in the market for a new car so is it a boycott or just not buying...

This thread could easily devolve into the normal and pointless "Fat Bastard" and "It's not a documentary" waste of time so I am specifically not addressing complaints against Moore's films.

I would argue, especially looking over the website for the festival, that he has done nothing to further his agenda with it except to expose people to the joy and expression of film. Seems much to me to punish a film festival that looks for help where ever it can get it over a partisan debate. But thats just me.

In the long run, it's the people with the frothing hatred that make Moore's participation worth its weight in gold. I'm a filmmaker and I hadn't heard of this festival until he was involved, and only because someone in Texas decided to have a problem with it. Looks like mission accomplished. Moore need not spend a dime to promote anything he does, just send a press release to the right and let them do his work for him.Yep. bad press is still press.

Remember Salamand Rushtie's Satanic Verses? I worked in a bookstore, and that thing never sold. Untill the bounty was placed and we couldn't keep it in stock long enough. and everyone who read it had the same comment.

"It was the worst book they ever read."

Ever notice, people like to spread bad and negative things around. which do you hear more often (with food anyway)...

1) Mmm this is great, here try this, tastes great right?

or...

2) Yeuch... this tastes awful... here try it... doesn't it taste awful!

This is exactly why these people are having the alternative festival. Michael Moore's warped view has been presented as fact, by him, and this view is that Republicans - specifically the Bush administration - is evil, hates America, and everything they touch is destroyed because of their political beliefs. Some people think Michael Moore is a liar and a propagandist based on what he has said and created. This group is expressing their opinion, and portraying it as such, which is more than can be said of Michael Moore.
Except, I think the point here is that the festival Michael is advocating is showing non-political films, he's just merely advocating a film festival, and these conservatives have to counter his friggin appearance with a retard knock-off festival complete with anti-liberal propaganda such as "Michael Moore hates America."

Yep. bad press is still press.

Remember Salamand Rushtie's Satanic Verses? I worked in a bookstore, and that thing never sold. Untill the bounty was placed and we couldn't keep it in stock long enough. and everyone who read it had the same comment.

"It was the worst book they ever read."

Ever notice, people like to spread bad and negative things around. which do you hear more often (with food anyway)...

1) Mmm this is great, here try this, tastes great right?

or...

2) Yeuch... this tastes awful... here try it... doesn't it taste awful!
Yeah, Rushdie is not a 'mass consumption' author. Not quite delivering the same thing as, say, The Di Vinci Code. The Lit guys I know dig him though. Haven't read a word he's written so I can't comment.

Haters and Over-raters get to me in a special kinda way. This is soley in art, however. In politics criticism is an important part of the process. And critiquing the critiques, and then critiquing that. As long as something is left on the bottom of the pan at the end of the day and not just more mud...

Except, I think the point here is that the festival Michael is advocating is showing non-political films, he's just merely advocating a film festival, and these conservatives have to counter his friggin appearance with a retard knock-off festival complete with anti-liberal propaganda such as "Michael Moore hates America."

Michael Moore, by his presence, lends the appearance of agreement with his views and statements. Evidently the fact that he presents wild distortions and outright lies as facts was not enough for the organizers of this festival to say no thanks. Your referral to the opposing festival as "retarded" illustrates not only your extreme ignorance and insensitivity, but also, evidently, your acceptance of lies and deception as OK. Bravo.

Are you afraid that by being in the same public space as you he will completely undermine your existance? By, and I can only guess this by your reasoning, editing you? Certainly would be cause to not grant him an interview, but to share space at a public event, frankly that is an irrational hatred no matter what kind of dress and bow you put on it.

Seems to me that you would allow him a rather large dictation over your life, as his mere presence will bar you from an event.

Still, I don't see how giving me your (predictable) reasons for not liking him in anyway refutes what I said.
You're very good at figuring out what people "really" mean, aren't you? [ yes, sarcasm IS difficult to convey in writing ]

The chances of the corpulent Mr. Moore and I being in the same place at the same time approach zero as a limit, so no, he has virtually no impact on my life whatsoever, except on this forum. Strange thing, that. :)

Michael Moore, by his presence, lends the appearance of agreement with his views and statements. Evidently the fact that he presents wild distortions and outright lies as facts was not enough for the organizers of this festival to say no thanks. Your referral to the opposing festival as "retarded" illustrates not only your extreme ignorance and insensitivity, but also, evidently, your acceptance of lies and deception as OK. Bravo.
Your inability to even consider an idea that conflicts with what's already pounded into your thick skull illustrates your close-mindedness and arrogance. See the above quote. Of course some people, like you, think that Michael Moore makes everything up, yet they can't imagine anyone from their side making anything up. Well done proving your arrogance to anything that conflicts with your opinions. :D

Michael Moore, by his presence, lends the appearance of agreement with his views and statements. Evidently the fact that he presents wild distortions and outright lies as facts was not enough for the organizers of this festival to say no thanks. Your referral to the opposing festival as "retarded" illustrates not only your extreme ignorance and insensitivity, but also, evidently, your acceptance of lies and deception as OK. Bravo.
It is possible to disagree with a view point and still support a medium. But only if you are not a knee-jerk partisan.

As for the answer festival, there are several things that give an indication that it is at best ill-concieved. First, it is an alternative to a film festival in Michigan that is being held in Texas. At least Slamdance is still in Utah.

Second, while the films that make up the list in the Michigan film festival are from a wide spectrum of sources and view points and has participation from established auteur filmmakers like Wenders and Herzog-and only contains one outright political film in the Enron entry (and even then, it's a film about Enron, a business that even the administration agrees (at least now) was up to no good.), the 'alternative' festival contains the patriotic goo film (name escapes me right now and I don't feel like looking it up) and Micheal Moore Hates America and as it's classic entry the HUAC appologist film that I posted about intitially, On the Waterfront, giving the 'answer' film festival the very political bent that the first one is being accused of but doesn't show as tellingly in the title or the content. As such, this 'answer' film festival is in fact ill-concieved. There are some harsher words for it, but there it is.

You're very good at figuring out what people "really" mean, aren't you? [ yes, sarcasm IS difficult to convey in writing ]

The chances of the corpulent Mr. Moore and I being in the same place at the same time approach zero as a limit, so no, he has virtually no impact on my life whatsoever, except on this forum. Strange thing, that. :)
I can only go by what you give me, big guy. You gave me a post that said you wouldn't want to be near him because he edits things. What else was that supposed to mean? I do give you a chance to clarify if that's not your intent. Junii did just fine without raising his blood pressure. I guess I just expect more...

You keep putting 'corpulent' Mr. Moore. Are you afraid that we might think you where suddenly refering to Roger Moore? Certainly you wouldn't be stooping so low as to suggest that a man's weight somehow invalidates him as a person or makes his opinions void. That would certainly be shallow and a clear indication that someone who would do that bases thier decisions on irrelivant factors and should be disregarded out of hand.

Michael Moore, by his presence, lends the appearance of agreement with his views and statements.

*snips*

Bravo.

Ahh...guilt by association. The old McCarthyite tilt. How refreshing.

Do go on.

Please.

*gets popcorn*

*gets popcorn*
did you get enough for two? :D

Moore needs a real job , and the vast majority of the nut jobs on both sides are in seriouse need of a life .

Moore needs a real job , and the vast majority of the nut jobs on both sides are in seriouse need of a life .
Moore's got a real job, and he's doing quite well financially from it, but then again, I'm betting you've never made a film and so have no clue what is involved in doing that.

:rolleyes:
Only in America....

Now, I enjoyed some of Moore's stuff - mainly the books. The two movies that I've seen (Columbine and Fahrenheit obviously) are too sentimental in my opinion and still hold on to a conception of America being somehow special in the world (although he does that in his books too).
But he does create controversy, and controversy is good for progress. So good on him.

There are those people who are so blinded by hatred for anyone who would dare criticize the way things are done in the US that they attempt to demonize those they see as standing in opposition. And then there are these morons (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8510677/), who take irrational hatred to the next level.

A local activist and a conservative group from Texas said Wednesday they were putting together an alternative to the Traverse City Film Festival, which Moore and residents of this Lake Michigan community are organizing.

“People are fed up and tired with the extreme left-wing radical fringe — America haters, family haters, Christian haters,” said Genie Aldrich, a resident of nearby Suttons Bay and founder of the Traverse Bay Freedom Film Festival. She tried unsuccessfully last month to dissuade the city commission from letting Moore’s group show films in a municipal waterfront park.


Well, if this festival has anywhere near the success of their last effort to refute Michael Moore in the film arena (Farenhype 9/11) then we should see a mass Republican exodus from Lake Michigan soon. Either that, or the conservatives' entire Traverse Bay Freedom Film Festival will soon be available exclusivly on Overstock.com.

[slightly off-topic]
Hmmm... I wonder what would happen if we put Michael Moore and Rush Limbaugh together on the same stage. Do you suppose we'd need Jerry Springer or Oprah to keep the two fat-bastards from killing each other? Or would we be able to control them with a table of donuts?
[/slightly off topic]

The 'alternative' festival's a bad idea from a tactical standpoint. I almost wonder if the organizer of the boycott isn't one of Moore's investors. Anyone remember how much money Disney Made when Fred Phelps, Jerry Falwell, and the rest of that pack were calling for a boycott of Disney?

No Press=Bad Press. The organizers probably understood exactly what kind of reaction having Mr. Moore would bring-and the level of attendance they could count on as the natural after-affect.