NationStates Jolt Archive

Many people seem to believe that the way to get rid of terrorist groups such as Al Qaeda is to kill so many of them that they get scared and give up. That strategy is monumentaly stupid. Why? Because terrorists don't fear death. They WANT to die. You can't scare them off or deter further attacks by killing them. You'll just create martyrs, which will help to draw in and inspire new recruits.

It is extremely important to understand this fact if we are to have any success at all in the war on terror.

Yeah, fighting them only makes them madder! And God forbid we kill one, 'cause his death will only recruit even more, angrier, replacements!

My solution: give up now. Completely.

All the more reason to bring them to Justice, and prevent them from realizing their goal of attaining the Kingdom of Heaven, or whatever it is, by forcing them to live on this temporal plane as long as possible - in a jail cell.

Yeah, fighting them only makes them madder! And God forbid we kill one, 'cause his death will only recruit even more, angrier, replacements!

My solution: give up now. Completely.

No, Pepe. Don't give up, just use their own psychology against them. Deny them their place alongside Allah for the full duration of their natural lives.

Bit of a sweeping comment that isn't it?

All terrorists want to die?

On what do you base that fact on?

Edit:

Sorry re-read the post

All terrorists like Al Qaeda want to die........Still applies though, because if that is what they wanted, why plany bombs and not just wander around as suicide bommbers?

Bit of a sweeping comment that isn't it?

All terrorists want to die?

On what do you base that fact on?
Oh, I don't know... the fact that they blow themselves up?

As I have just said in my edit, if thats what they ALL want to do, they wouldn't go to the hassle of hiding and planting bombs.

A better title would be "Terrorist don't fear death"

Yeah, fighting them only makes them madder! And God forbid we kill one, 'cause his death will only recruit even more, angrier, replacements!

My solution: give up now. Completely.
No, silly, the solution is to fight them intelligently, rather than adopting a brute force "ME SMASH YOU!" approach.

How do you fight Al Qaeda intelligently? Well, first of all, you need to cut off their supply of reinforcements. Spread propaganda that Allah sends suicide bombers to hell, for example. And, since the kind of people who become terrorists are the kind of people who are so poor that they have nothing to lose, it would be smart to ensure that most Arabs do have a lot to lose - by helping to fight poverty in the Arab world, and merging the anti-poverty campaign with a pro-Western propaganda campaign.

As I have just said in my edit, if thats what they ALL want to do, they wouldn't go to the hassle of hiding and planting bombs.
True enough, not all of them want to die. But even those who don't seek death are at the very least not nearly as afraid to die as your average Westerner.

If they are not afraid to die, then you have to MAKE them afraid to die. General Blackjack Pershing handled Islamic terrorist in the Phillipines. He once captured a group of 50 and sentenced 49 of them to the firing squad. The 50th one stood by and watched. His troops then slaughtered pigs in front of the prisoners and dipped their bullets in the blood. Then they executed the 49 and released the 50th. There were no problems with Islamic terrorists in the Phillipines after that.

Umm, actually, there are still Islamic terrorists in the Phillipines today...

How do you fight Al Qaeda intelligently? Well, first of all, you need to cut off their supply of reinforcements. Spread propaganda that Allah sends suicide bombers to hell, for example. And, since the kind of people who become terrorists are the kind of people who are so poor that they have nothing to lose, it would be smart to ensure that most Arabs do have a lot to lose - by helping to fight poverty in the Arab world, and merging the anti-poverty campaign with a pro-Western propaganda campaign.

While your idea certainly makes a lot more sense than most, mightn't the pro-western propaganda weaken the effect of the anti-poverty campaign in the mindset of the Arabs? I mean, surely the net impact of social support would be greater if they don't hear "America is good, see?" every five minutes... I know I'd look on any financial aid with serious skepticism if it came with a note from the Mafia saying "We're not the bad guys, here", so why should those in the Middle East feel any differently?

Oh dear, here we have a discussion based upon stereotypes and missconceptions.

All terrorists want to die, all aren't afraid to die, they value life less than westerners because they are impoverished, they are ill educated and easily lead.

Perhaps when we stop looking at them like this then we will find a solution, until then there's no a hope in hell.

I had intended on contributing further in this discussion as terrorism and it's uses and the people who carry it out is a pet subject of mine, but it would be fruitless really.

enjoy......

If they are not afraid to die, then you have to MAKE them afraid to die. General Blackjack Pershing handled Islamic terrorist in the Phillipines. He once captured a group of 50 and sentenced 49 of them to the firing squad. The 50th one stood by and watched. His troops then slaughtered pigs in front of the prisoners and dipped their bullets in the blood. Then they executed the 49 and released the 50th. There were no problems with Islamic terrorists in the Phillipines after that.

You do know that this story is utterly untrue, don't you, yes? Any chance of an argument based somewhere in reality?

Oh dear, here we have a discussion based upon stereotypes and missconceptions.

All terrorists want to die, all aren't afraid to die, they value life less than westerners because they are impoverished, they are ill educated and easily lead.

Perhaps when we stop looking at them like this then we will find a solution, until then there's no a hope in hell.
You must be thinking of Muslims in general, but I was only talking about Islamic terrorists. Everything I said would be stereotypical, utterly stupid and just plain wrong if I were talking about Arabs or Muslims. But I wasn't.

Islamic terrorists are only a very very small group of Muslims. They are a fanatical and at least partially insane group, who relate to mainstream Muslims in much the same way as fanatical Christian fringe groups relate to mainstream Christianity.

The Obvious solution (well, to me anyway) is to publicly add as many pork products as possible to the wepons used against Islamic Terrorists, thus you serve the dual purpose of killing them and damning them eternally, that should scare off the terrorists.

The only reason they don't fear death is because if they die in the way they're trying to die, they spend eternity blissful and carefree. We need to hit them where it hurts - the foundations of their religion. That, and torture. If they want to die, torture them instead, and just don't kill them.

The only reason they don't fear death is because if they die in the way they're trying to die, they spend eternity blissful and carefree. We need to hit them where it hurts - the foundations of their religion. That, and torture. If they want to die, torture them instead, and just don't kill them.
That sounds seriously fucked up, but I'm going to have to agree with you there.

:mad: How about we get our Own crazies to strap bombs on them then let them loose in the Middle east. It'll be different when their families are the ones getting blasted by maniacs. Give them C4 and drop them outside Mecca. Lets see them pray to the holy city when there isn't one there anymore.

(Yes I'm being an Ass, but I go by the "lets see how YOU like it b*tch.) :mad:

You do know that this story is utterly untrue, don't you, yes? Any chance of an argument based somewhere in reality?

Actually, the verdict is out - but if it wasn't Pershing it may have been someone else. Other ideas as well...

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pershing.htm

All the more reason to bring them to Justice, and prevent them from realizing their goal of attaining the Kingdom of Heaven, or whatever it is, by forcing them to live on this temporal plane as long as possible - in a jail cell.

With a pig.

If they are not afraid to die, then you have to MAKE them afraid to die. General Blackjack Pershing handled Islamic terrorist in the Phillipines. He once captured a group of 50 and sentenced 49 of them to the firing squad. The 50th one stood by and watched. His troops then slaughtered pigs in front of the prisoners and dipped their bullets in the blood. Then they executed the 49 and released the 50th. There were no problems with Islamic terrorists in the Phillipines after that.

And for those that are against the death penalty, we could lock them up in a cell for life. With a pig.

With a pig.

And a copy of the Qu'ran liberally illustrated with nudie pics?

Many people seem to believe that the way to get rid of terrorist groups such as Al Qaeda is to kill so many of them that they get scared and give up. That strategy is monumentaly stupid. Why? Because terrorists don't fear death. They WANT to die. You can't scare them off or deter further attacks by killing them. You'll just create martyrs, which will help to draw in and inspire new recruits.

It is extremely important to understand this fact if we are to have any success at all in the war on terror.
Solution being...wait around and let them just suicide bomb themselves to death? GREAT IDEA!

While your idea certainly makes a lot more sense than most, mightn't the pro-western propaganda weaken the effect of the anti-poverty campaign in the mindset of the Arabs?

When are people going to realize it is not "poverty" that is the root cause of Muslim terrorism but religion? Now, before you flame me not all Muslims are terrorists, most aren't.

One of the richest countries in the world is Saudi Arabia. Where did most of the 911 attackers come from? Where did Osama bin Laden come from? Was Osama poor? Where do a number of the insurgents in Iraq come from?

If poverty is the root cause of Muslim terrorism, why hasn't Saudi Arabia solved the poverty problem? The problem is not poverty. The radical Muslim philosophy is bread in Saudi Arabia and by other radical Muslims.

People, it is time we started placing the blame for terrorism on the terrorists and no one else.

Islamic terrorists are only a very very small group of Muslims. They are a fanatical and at least partially insane group, who relate to mainstream Muslims in much the same way as fanatical Christian fringe groups relate to mainstream Christianity.

Yes, I'm glad someone finally got it right.

The only reason they don't fear death is because if they die in the way they're trying to die, they spend eternity blissful and carefree. We need to hit them where it hurts - the foundations of their religion. That, and torture. If they want to die, torture them instead, and just don't kill them.

Can't agree with the torture bit. However, our definition of torture may be different. Sleep depravation and loud obnoxious music is not torture. Temperature variations in the interrogation room is not torture.

Can't agree with the torture bit. However, our definition of torture may be different. Sleep depravation and loud obnoxious music is not torture. Temperature variations in the interrogation room is not torture.

Sleep deprevation kills (after 13 or so days).

Anyway, I say for every innocent person they kill, we kill ten, that way if they "do Allah's work" then they will cause the death of their own kind and will go to Hell.

Another solution, water torture.

First you drop a drop of water on somebodies head, once every x minutes/seconds, then after a while, they will go insane.

What is abundantly clear is that we're using the wrong psychology in this fight. We have to understand what will cause them distress, and act upon it - but I cannot stress this enough - we must work within the structure (and strictures) of international law.

Retribution isn't going to work. And anyway, that's what they want from the West. We have to think like they do, and exploit the way they think to frustrate their plans. The trick is to be clever about it, not ham-handed.

Terrorists don't WANT to die. They want to cause TERROR in their opponent by killing as many of them as possible while making themselves LOOK fearless, hence the suicide bombers.

Sleep deprevation kills (after 13 or so days).

Anyway, I say for every innocent person they kill, we kill ten, that way if they "do Allah's work" then they will cause the death of their own kind and will go to Hell.
You're misunderstanding something about fanatacism here.
This might work for some people, but other fanatics will say "Well, the Americans are evil to kill our innocents." and just redouble their efforts. And point to the "atrocities" the Americans caused in killing their innocents when recruiting more terrorists.
Oh, and the non-terrorists who have their innocent relatives killed won't look too kindly on Americans, either. You're not fighting a country, you're fighting fanatical individuals.
I can sure tell you that if a country tried that method here I'd be enlisting for the war. Even if they killed ten for every one I kill (although I wouldn't be targetting innocents).
Heck, look at the huge kneejerk reaction America had to 9/11. Terrible as that was, there have now been way more muslim deaths than American deaths (please don't ask me to quote numbers).

I'm not saying that America deserved it, or that the blame should lay on anyone but the terrorists. I do think we need to recognize that there are other factors involved here, *lots* of political, social, and religious factors that all contribute. And, if we're going to stop more people dying (muslim and christian alike) we need to recognize that. Not just "get revenge" or "show we're tougher".

*sigh*

I can't blame anyone for wanting to get revenge, to kill more of them than they killed of us. I'd just like to point out that if every country has that attitude, we need to accept that a lot of countries are gunning for America.

Terrorists don't WANT to die. They want to cause TERROR in their opponent by killing as many of them as possible while making themselves LOOK fearless, hence the suicide bombers.

That might not be true, some may wish to be martyrs:

"The world leaders in terrorist suicide attacks are not the Islamic fundamentalists, but the Tamils of Sri Lanka. The LTTE's track record for suicide attacks is unrivaled. Its suicide commandos have blown up the prime ministers of two countries (India and Sri Lanka), celebrities, at least one naval battleship, and have regularly used suicide to avoid capture as well as simply a means of protest. LTTE terrorists do not dare not to carry out their irrevocable orders to use their cyanide capsules if captured. No fewer than 35 LTTE operatives committed suicide to simply avoid being questioned by investigators in the wake of the Gandhi assassination. Attempting to be circumspect, investigators disguised themselves as doctors in order to question LTTE patients undergoing medical treatment, but, Vijay Karan (1997:46) writes about the LTTE patients, "Their reflexes indoctrinated to react even to the slightest suspicion, all of them instantly popped cyanide capsules." Two were saved only because the investigators forcibly removed the capsules from their mouths, but one investigator suffered a severe bite wound on his hand and had to be hospitalized for some time.



To Western observers, the acts of suicide terrorism by adherents of Islam and Hinduism may be attributable to fanaticism or mental illness or both. From the perspective of the Islamic movement, however, such acts of self-destruction have a cultural and religious context, the historical origins of which can be seen in the behavior of religious sects associated with the Shi'ite movement, notably the Assassins (see Glossary). Similarly, the suicide campaign of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) in the 1993-94 period involved young Palestinian terrorists, who, acting on individual initiative, attacked Israelis in crowded places, using home-made improvised weapons such as knives and axes. Such attacks were suicidal because escape was not part of the attacker's plan. These attacks were, at least in part, motivated by revenge.


According to scholars of Muslim culture, so-called suicide bombings, however, are seen by Islamists and Tamils alike as instances of martyrdom, and should be understood as such. The Arabic term used is istishad, a religious term meaning to give one's life in the name of Allah, as opposed to intihar, which refers to suicide resulting from personal distress. The latter form of suicide is not condoned in Islamic teachings."

This is an in-depth article if you want to know more:

http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/frd.html

Oh dear, here we have a discussion based upon stereotypes and missconceptions.

All terrorists want to die, all aren't afraid to die, they value life less than westerners because they are impoverished, they are ill educated and easily lead.


True enough, not all of them want to die. But even those who don't seek death are at the very least not nearly as afraid to die as your average Westerner.

It would apear that this discussion is truly based on stereotype, for instance. Has it ever occured to you that not all terrorists are Arabs, have you ever, perhaps, realized that "Westerners" can also be terrorists, and that terrorist organizations are not all based on a fight for Islamic ideals, false or otherwise?


:mp5: <---note: Caucasian Westerner

Maybe they need more movies where the heroes survive in the end, and they are heroic exactly because they cling on until the very end.

Combatting terrorism with Bruce Willis.

Tony - Providing simplistic solutions for complex problems since 1980

It would apear that this discussion is truly based on stereotype, for instance. Has it ever occured to you that not all terrorists are Arabs, have you ever, perhaps, realized that "Westerners" can also be terrorists, and that terrorist organizations are not all based on a fight for Islamic ideals, false or otherwise?


:mp5: <---note: Caucasian Westerner

Of course.
But it was made pretty clear near the beginning of this thread that the discussion is about fanatical islamic terrorists.

Westerners can be terrorists, but because it's not so much part of our culture, we tend to go about things in different ways. Not that we can't be every bit as brutal and ugly as terrorists. We just don't have the same cultural view of suicide for God/our country.

it seems to me that the americans are looking at this problem in completely the wrong way. ever since 9/11 they have been on a hunt to kill as many terrorists as they can in the middle east, and although they have done so, they have suffered a number of casualties doing so, not to mention all the iraqi and afghani civilians who have gotten a taste of the effects of 'nation building' whether it be from an american bullet or a jihadist's one. this approach has done nothing but increase enrollment in the 'terrorist' cause, because the americans never stopped to ask in the first place 'what makes a terrorist'. i think that a man who has a happy family and a good job is not likely to be a terrorist, although if he decides that his religion compels him to do so, then it is possible. i think what makes a terrorist is when some country comes to yours, blows up everything around you, kills some neighbors and family, and makes your decent life turn into sh*t. whether this happens in israel/palestine, iraq, afghanistan, or some african nation, i would ask 'who is responsible for this'. if i see some american humvees driving around and see that saddams police have been changed with americans, i might plan on doing some things i would otherwise have not.

This is an in-depth article if you want to know more:

http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/frd.html

Thanks, that's useful and interesting.

And a copy of the Qu'ran liberally illustrated with nudie pics?
Drawn with menstrual or pig blood.

Thanks, that's useful and interesting.
mmmm, been so long since ive been to fas.org. this brings back memories! *cries*