NationStates Jolt Archive

It has struck me recently that all religions are essentially identical:

You have a few key ingredients joined together in the same way in (almost) all religious/spiritual persuasions.

1) faith/belief in God
2) scripture or oral code ascribed divine meaning
3) ritual and cultural tradition

Both 2 and 3 are pretty much based on 1. Its rational to suppose that faith or belief in something is inspired the same conviction or feeling in all humans, and is merely expressed a bit differently due to environmental factors. So How are YOU unique or particularly justified in your belief in contrast to others who hold faith?

Basically, people can choose their form of superstition, but its all the same, be they Jewish, Wiccan, Druids, Christion, or whatever. Not surprisingly, I consider the whole "I'm spiritual, not religious" card utterly moot.

EDIT: I'm off to work, but will reply later

Oh yeah, generalization. I am SO turned on right now.

While it may be true that they are all similar, they are by no means identicle. Christianity and Jeudism are a good example. I don't need to explain that one. Also, Christianity teaches to love thy neighbor as thy self. Islam's Quran has a passage that tells muslims not to take Chritians or Jews as friends, and to kill the infidels. Nothing there is identicle. A lot of people also seem to think that all religions are identicle. That's a common mistake.

I made a similar point not too long ago. There is, underlying all religion, a common thread. It says to me a couple of things: this thread is either a true origin of faith or it is a necessity in human nature, and that subscribing to any of the spin-offs is therefore pointless in either scenario.

Why adopt a religion that has added its own confusing and unnecessary bells and whistles on to the fundamental truth?

On your other issue, I'd raise the point that spirituality and religion do differ slightly. Spirituality is the broad genre of mindsets that deal with issues of the spirit or supernatural, while religion deals with the organisations, structures and foundations that have spirituality at their core. It is possible to be spiritual but not belong to any groups or societies that share your particular spiritual viewpoint, though it is significantly rarer for a religion to be based on non-spiritual matters.

While it may be true that they are all similar, they are by no means identicle. Christianity and Jeudism are a good example. I don't need to explain that one. Also, Christianity teaches to love thy neighbor as thy self. Islam's Quran has a passage that tells muslims not to take Chritians or Jews as friends, and to kill the infidels. Nothing there is identicle. A lot of people also seem to think that all religions are identicle. That's a common mistake.
Hey did not say they were identical he was saying the base ingredants were the same

i think all books are the same

they have a cover

an author

a bunch of words

see? all the same. how can you say that one is better than another?

i think all books are the same

they have a cover

an author

a bunch of words

see? all the same.

Do any books claim that you must read this one book, and that you're forbidden to read any other?

i think all books are the same

they have a cover

an author

a bunch of words

see? all the same. how can you say that one is better than another?
It makes them all books vs other printed materials
You may think it is idiodic to point out the obvious but that may be just what he was doing.

It does not make him wrong just obvous lol

two words

'people control"

It has struck me recently that all religions are essentially identical:

You have a few key ingredients joined together in the same way in (almost) all religious/spiritual persuasions.

1) faith/belief in God
2) scripture or oral code ascribed divine meaning
3) ritual and cultural tradition
But 2 and 3 are precisely the things that would differ from culture to culture (as you imply), so they are not identical.

Both 2 and 3 are pretty much based on 1. Its rational to suppose that faith or belief in something is inspired the same conviction or feeling in all humans, and is merely expressed a bit differently due to environmental factors. So How are YOU unique or particularly justified in your belief in contrast to others who hold faith?
Others who hold faith tend towards belief in a god-like being, or image, or entity, or force. I hold that god is an unknown. I've rarely seen this opinion expressed here on these boards.

Basically, people can choose their form of superstition, but its all the same, be they Jewish, Wiccan, Druids, Christion, or whatever. Not surprisingly, I consider the whole "I'm spiritual, not religious" card utterly moot.
Superstition is another matter entirely. Superstition is a belief that forces outside ourselves act to impose themselves on our lives, i.e. "magic" or chance. Not everyone has such a view of god (or even God).

two words

'people control"

:) finally someone understands that religions are a way to control the community.. damn those evil priests...

Islam's Quran has a passage that tells muslims not to take Chritians or Jews as friends, and to kill the infidels.
Oh really? I guess you haven't read this part:

"And do not dispute with the followers of the Book [ahl al Kitâb - Christians and Jews] except by what is best, except those of them who act unjustly, and say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our God and your God is One, and to Him do we submit."
- Qur'an 29:46

This idea that all religions are basically the same is really nothing new, it is actually the basis of the Theosophist and Bahai faiths, not to mention theologans around the world. The only real seperation of these faiths/religions is when we get into matters of dogma and power structures.

It has struck me recently that all religions are essentially identical:

You have a few key ingredients joined together in the same way in (almost) all religious/spiritual persuasions.

1) faith/belief in God
2) scripture or oral code ascribed divine meaning
3) ritual and cultural tradition

Both 2 and 3 are pretty much based on 1. Its rational to suppose that faith or belief in something is inspired the same conviction or feeling in all humans, and is merely expressed a bit differently due to environmental factors. So How are YOU unique or particularly justified in your belief in contrast to others who hold faith?

Basically, people can choose their form of superstition, but its all the same, be they Jewish, Wiccan, Druids, Christion, or whatever. Not surprisingly, I consider the whole "I'm spiritual, not religious" card utterly moot.

EDIT: I'm off to work, but will reply later

Why bother replying. You just insulted in the most certain of terms every religous person on earth and declared their basic beliefs utterly moot. What I would like to know is why this thread is still here as there is no room for discussion.

Liverbreath']Why bother replying. You just insulted in the most certain of terms every religous person on earth and declared their basic beliefs utterly moot. What I would like to know is why this thread is still here as there is no room for discussion.
*raises hand* not me.

All cars are the same, because:

1) They have an engine
2) They go forward or backwards
3) They were made by people

So you see?

Oh yeah, generalization. I am SO turned on right now.If you want to find trends in anything, generalization is necessary. As long as they can be backed up with details (which, granted, I haven't really done yet) they are justified.

Why adopt a religion that has added its own confusing and unnecessary bells and whistles on to the fundamental truth? I agree with your post. Bells and whistles are there to form community, to preserve uniquness and identitiy, and basically, better chances of survival. The fact that some human grouoing are based on spirituality is arbitrary, IMO. Humans seem to require belonging and to some extent, exclusion, so these grouping ma as well serve that function.

i think all books are the same

they have a cover

an author

a bunch of words

see? all the same. how can you say that one is better than another? Perhaps my point isn't very earth-shattering, but I find the idea profound. Religious groupings of people are essentially a testament to how similar we all are.

But 2 and 3 are precisely the things that would differ from culture to culture (as you imply), so they are not identical. That's window-dressing. If you BELIEVE in anything, your notions are on equal par with every other person of faith. Cultural differences are just that; cultural.
Others who hold faith tend towards belief in a god-like being, or image, or entity, or force. I hold that god is an unknown. I've rarely seen this opinion expressed here on these boards.If you think God is unknown don't you question its existance? does that make you and agnostic?
Superstition is another matter entirely. Superstition is a belief that forces outside ourselves act to impose themselves on our lives, i.e. "magic" or chance. Not everyone has such a view of god (or even God).Superstition is the same as any other belief that isn't based in fact. Don't put yourself above fortune-tellers and astrologists because your belief is a bit more abstact and hence somewaht less obviously ridiculous.

All humans are the same because each has a body, breathes, and consumes nourishment. But I'm sure you're tired of people making that kind of parallel by now.

Sure, pretty much every religion has similar underlying structure — so do political groups, but does that mean that every political group is identical? Or that every person, born with the same basic structure and needs, is exactly the same? Or that every form of government is the same? Of course groups or entities with similar functions are going to take similar forms, but that doesn't mean that the beliefs — and the differing behaviors motivated by differing beliefs — of the individual ones are trivial, insignificant or just dressings.

I guess it doesn't matter if I'm Republican, Democrat, Socialist, or Libertarian. I mean, they're all basically identical, right?

so what youre really saying is that as far as you can see, all relgions are the same in that they are all false?

Oh yeah, generalization. I am SO turned on right now.

You win the thread

so what youre really saying is that as far as you can see, all relgions are the same in that they are all false?

No, I think he is saying there is one TRUE religion. Some day we will all wake up and realize what it is, until then we will keep searching like Diogenes. :eek:

No, I think he is saying there is one TRUE religion. Some day we will all wake up and realize what it is, until then we will keep searching like Diogenes. :eek:You're kidding, right? ......just making sure.

No, I think he is saying there is one TRUE religion. Some day we will all wake up and realize what it is, until then we will keep searching like Diogenes. :eek:

im not so sure of that. she did say

Basically, people can choose their form of superstition, but its all the same, be they Jewish, Wiccan, Druids, Christion, or whatever. Not surprisingly, I consider the whole "I'm spiritual, not religious" card utterly moot.

not many people refer to religion as superstition if they think its "true"

You're kidding, right? ......just making sure.

It is very difficult for me to talk with my tong in my cheek. :D Had you scared for a minute didn't I? :)

No, I think he is saying there is one TRUE religion. Some day we will all wake up and realize what it is, until then we will keep searching like Diogenes. :eek:

Maybe SHE's saying that they're all equally true.

Honest to fucking god, every time any one on this forum calls faith into question, they get jumped on as one of those durn immoral atheists. I would think that your faith in God would be strong enough to withstand a thread on an internet forum.

Maybe SHE's saying that they're all equally true.

Honest to fucking god, every time any one on this forum calls faith into question, they get jumped on as one of those durn immoral atheists. I would think that your faith in God would be strong enough to withstand a thread on an internet forum.

Please go back and look at post #25. I'm on my way to the hospital to see if they can repair my broken eardrum. :D

so what youre really saying is that as far as you can see, all relgions are the same in that they are all false?No I'm saying that they are all the same because they are based in faith that springs from the same human need. Whether the faith is justified in truth, or not, is irelevant, really.

Please go back and look at post #25. I'm on my way to the hospital to see if they can repair my broken eardrum. :D

Well, the second part wasn't directed specifically at you. Just in general at all the people who are flipping out because someone decided to take a poke at their religion. People whose faith is so weak that it can't withstand an 18 year old girl's assaults.

No I'm saying that they are all the same because they are based in faith that springs from the same human need. Whether the faith is justified in truth, or not, isn't relevant, really.
alot of people feel that way but, for me, the part where is not actuallly true ruins the whole thing for me. if its not true, im not messing with it.

but besides that human need part, i dont find religions all that much the same. especially the differences between mono- and poly- theism and religions with god-inspired texts vs intellectual analyses of their theology vs those with no texts at all. they are all very different approaches to religion.

Maybe SHE's saying that they're all equally true.

Honest to fucking god, every time any one on this forum calls faith into question, they get jumped on as one of those durn immoral atheists. I would think that your faith in God would be strong enough to withstand a thread on an internet forum.
whats up with that? she didnt even get flamed. how much more civilized can you get on NSgeneral?

whats up with that? she didnt even get flamed. how much more civilized can you get on NSgeneral?

Posts #2 and #14 are what pissed me off.

1) faith/belief in God - Bouddism anyone?
2) scripture or oral code ascribed divine meaning - This is something all religions share, but it's just inherrant in a religion. Without scripture or an oral code, there's nothing to pass on the beliefs, and hence, no religion.
3) ritual and cultural tradition - Eclectic Paganism anyone?

People whose faith is so weak that it can't withstand an 18 year old girl's assaults.

Very true, and very sad. Many of them are the first ones to tell everyone else they are wrong. How sad.

Of course religions are the same. It's a word with a definition. Something is classed as a religion if it has certain characteristics. This thread is 3 pages too long. Someone should have said "Isn't that bleedin' obvious?" sooner.

Anyway, the list you made is inaccurate. Just look in a dictionary. That tells you what a religion is. Etymology solves a lot of problems. It's not belief in God, but belief in a higher power or supernatural element which makes religions, partly.

I'm an atheist myself, but as I always say, a bad argument in your favour is as strong as a good argument against you.

To clarify, I think what she's trying to say by this topic is that there's a need for a belief in many people. Not only a belief, but a belief that follows a certain structure. Basically, if you flew a million people to some isolated planet, they'd end up forming a religion with a god/gods, scripture, and rituals.

It has struck me recently that all religions are essentially identical:

You have a few key ingredients joined together in the same way in (almost) all religious/spiritual persuasions.

1) faith/belief in God
2) scripture or oral code ascribed divine meaning
3) ritual and cultural tradition

Both 2 and 3 are pretty much based on 1. Its rational to suppose that faith or belief in something is inspired the same conviction or feeling in all humans, and is merely expressed a bit differently due to environmental factors. So How are YOU unique or particularly justified in your belief in contrast to others who hold faith?

Basically, people can choose their form of superstition, but its all the same, be they Jewish, Wiccan, Druids, Christion, or whatever. Not surprisingly, I consider the whole "I'm spiritual, not religious" card utterly moot.

EDIT: I'm off to work, but will reply later

Um.

Beyond the gross generalization, this is inaccurate.

1) Many religions do not believe in "God." Or even gods. Panthiestic and non-theistic religions have rather large followings.

2) Although almost any belief system is expressed somewhere either orally or in writing and considers some expressions more authoritative than others, many religions do not consider certain texts or sayings divine in origin or meaning.

3) Again, "ritual" or "cultural tradition" are so vague and broad they apply to almost any aspect of almost any lifestyle. Still, there are many religions that do not have any particularl rituals or are bound by particular cultural traditions.

It is certainly far from true that all three of your criteria are true of all -- or almost all -- religions.

These three criteria are even less true when you -- and you do -- apply them to all spirtual beliefs.

You do not say, but imply, that all religious beliefs are not only the same, but that they are all invalid. I hope you did not mean that -- particularly not implied so casually. I hope you did not mean to so cavalierly dismiss the beliefs of practically everyone on the planet (and everyone in the history of the planet).

I would agree with the point I think you are trying to make that people should be careful about hubris in their beliefs and smug and/or ignorant dismissal of the beliefs of others.

All realigions are made for is making a perfect society. If everybody in the world was christain wouldn't the world be an amazing place to live in? I'm not saying this to convert anybody, because I myself am not christain. But you can say the same thing about any religion. If we were all Buddhist or Islamic then the world would be an amazing place to live in. But unfortanately we all have our own religions that have minor ideas which seperate them from other religions. I say that we need to get over these diffrences, and start embrassing all religions because we all have the common goal of making life and society better.

I bid you gday.
[sean]

It is certainly far from true that all three of your criteria are true of all -- or almost all -- religions. Maybe we should define religion then. To me, religion is defined as the belief in some divinity accompanied by some sort of ritual practices. So criteria one must be true.

These three criteria are even less true when you -- and you do -- apply them to all spirtual beliefs.I need some more specific counterexamples. When I have time I'll look up some of the stuff you mentioned.
You do not say, but imply, that all religious beliefs are not only the same, but that they are all invalid. I hope you did not mean that -- particularly not implied so casually. I hope you did not mean to so cavalierly dismiss the beliefs of practically everyone on the planet (and everyone in the history of the planet). Why, I believe I did mean to do just that, though declaring myself as a non-believer in god isn't the purpose of this thread. I've made that clear.

I would agree with the point I think you are trying to make that people should be careful about hubris in their beliefs and smug and/or ignorant dismissal of the beliefs of others.Well thanks.

Maybe we should define religion then. To me, religion is defined as the belief in some divinity accompanied by some sort of ritual practices. So criteria one must be true.

I need some more specific counterexamples. When I have time I'll look up some of the stuff you mentioned.

Gee, there are hundreds that don't fit your three criteria:

Taoism
Buddhism
Jainism
Secular Humanism
Shaivism
Vaishnavism
Ayyavazhi
Shintoism
Many Native American belief systems
Wicca

And I'm just thinking on my feet. I'm sure others can name many more.

Why, I believe I did mean to do just that, though declaring myself as a non-believer in god isn't the purpose of this thread. I've made that clear.

Well thanks.

For the record, I do not believe in "God" or gods either.

With all due respect, you should re-read my statement that you agreed was part of your point.

I would agree with the point I think you are trying to make that people should be careful about hubris in their beliefs and smug and/or ignorant dismissal of the beliefs of others.

I think the person that thought up the word "Religion" to describe all of these things all ready noticed the similarities... not the usage of similiarities and not sameness.

All animals are similar, but not the same. All cars are similar, but not the same. All toilets are similar, but not the same.

And whoever said the only difference between religions is Dogma, that's quite the difference indeed. The kind of difference that tells me the Messiah has all ready come and that he has one Father, and that He is the True God. Versus the kind of dogma that tells me to worship cattle. I mean this not to belittle anyones beliefs, I just wanted to show two extreme examples.

Also this makes kind of seems to force you to think, at least it does for me. Why else were we born feeling a need to believe is a Higher Power? Is it a psychological need, or the one fact we're granted when we're born? So many cultures have developed completely independent from eachother all around the world, and they all had some sort of belief system. Atheism might not be something new, but obviously belief came before that, otherwise we would've been taught that there was nothing from the beginning. Those are just my opinions though, I state them as facts to myself, not to you.

It has struck me recently that all religions are essentially identical:

You have a few key ingredients joined together in the same way in (almost) all religious/spiritual persuasions.

1) faith/belief in God
2) scripture or oral code ascribed divine meaning
3) ritual and cultural tradition

Both 2 and 3 are pretty much based on 1. Its rational to suppose that faith or belief in something is inspired the same conviction or feeling in all humans, and is merely expressed a bit differently due to environmental factors. So How are YOU unique or particularly justified in your belief in contrast to others who hold faith?

Basically, people can choose their form of superstition, but its all the same, be they Jewish, Wiccan, Druids, Christion, or whatever. Not surprisingly, I consider the whole "I'm spiritual, not religious" card utterly moot.

EDIT: I'm off to work, but will reply later

Naaah. It's just that HUMANS are the same. Your little list could be applied to every human, just take out the "God" bit. Actually, your list IS incorrect, because plenty of religions don't have a faith in "God".

So, let's do the list properly.

1.All humans have FAITH. For example. when you get on a plane you do so in faith, that it works, you don;t KNOW for certain it will.

2.Scripture or oral code ascribed life-adhering meaning. Whether that's the US constitution, the works of Darwin or Marx, the periodic statements from "science today magazine", share and stock indexes or phychological self help books, the effct is the same. Written or oral words giving advice or truth that can be followed.

3.Ritual or cultural tradition.
every human has rituals. Do you brush your teeth? Shower? Eat food? Every human eats food every day... some rituals like eating are necessary for survival. A faith-filled person is taking care of their spirit in the same way they'd take care of their body. Supply it, wash it clean, nurture it or heal it.

So well done! You made a gernalisation that covers all of us!

As for religions, well they're all radically different from each other - from the concepts of who or what God is, to what the path is, to where the path takes you.

You could say "all roads are the same, because they all lead you somewhere" But that doesn't mean that if you get on the Hume Highway in Melbourne, you'll get to Capetown.

If you want to find trends in anything, generalization is necessary. As long as they can be backed up with details (which, granted, I haven't really done yet) they are justified.
Ah, but generalizations are abused when they are applied to the specific. They are for population groups, not individuals.

That's window-dressing. If you BELIEVE in anything, your notions are on equal par with every other person of faith. Cultural differences are just that; cultural.
Essential window-dressing. If you believe in anything, it is unique case.

If you think God is unknown don't you question its existance? does that make you and agnostic?
Superstition is the same as any other belief that isn't based in fact. Don't put yourself above fortune-tellers and astrologists because your belief is a bit more abstact and hence somewaht less obviously ridiculous.
I do not question god's existence, because it's not necessary to do so. I felt something, and that's good enough for me. If no one else believes, so be it.

Superstition is a belief in something "out there" affecting our lives. God doesn't do that to me.

(PS: I am an astrologer.)

No I'm saying that they are all the same because they are based in faith that springs from the same human need. Whether the faith is justified in truth, or not, isn't relevant, really.
What need, then?

What need, then?

The need to be part of something greater than oneself; of course, not everyone has this need.

It doesn't seem to me that those criteria work for Atheism...

Depending on the definition that one takes for religion you can consider Atheism to be one or not to be one, but it is essentially a faith-based system of belief as there is no definitive proof that God or gods do not exist.

Of course religions are the same. It's a word with a definition. Something is classed as a religion if it has certain characteristics. This thread is 3 pages too long. Someone should have said "Isn't that bleedin' obvious?" sooner.

Anyway, the list you made is inaccurate. Just look in a dictionary. That tells you what a religion is...
Uh, no.... doesn't that kind of prove the need for this thread?

It has struck me recently that all religions are essentially identical:

You have a few key ingredients joined together in the same way in (almost) all religious/spiritual persuasions.

1) faith/belief in God
2) scripture or oral code ascribed divine meaning
3) ritual and cultural tradition

Both 2 and 3 are pretty much based on 1. Its rational to suppose that faith or belief in something is inspired the same conviction or feeling in all humans, and is merely expressed a bit differently due to environmental factors. So How are YOU unique or particularly justified in your belief in contrast to others who hold faith?

Basically, people can choose their form of superstition, but its all the same, be they Jewish, Wiccan, Druids, Christion, or whatever. Not surprisingly, I consider the whole "I'm spiritual, not religious" card utterly moot.

EDIT: I'm off to work, but will reply later
How many times has this same topic come up and how many times have people missed the most obvious arguement against it. Shintoism has no set 'god' no holy scriptures and rituals are unique to each region. Please make an effort to learn about what you are talking about before you make blanket statements.

The need to be part of something greater than oneself; of course, not everyone has this need.
Surely they can get that from watching TV, or joining a club, or having a social hobby.

Or interacting on the Internet.

Satanists do not believe in a God, they believe in the Individual. Which makes your generalizations of what religions have in common even broader.

(PS: I am an astrologer.)That made me laugh. will reply shortly

Others who hold faith tend towards belief in a god-like being, or image, or entity, or force. I hold that god is an unknown. I've rarely seen this opinion expressed here on these boards.
If you think God is unknown don't you question its existance? does that make you and agnostic?
Agnostics believe that the existence of god is unknown; I believe god is an unknown. God exists. Nothing is known of "him" except what we experience, which is necessarily filtered by subjective human perception; hence I make no claims to know what god is, just what I know of "him".

Mythology is mankind's efforts to build metaphors to describe and pass on experiences of god through symbolism. The images of gods we build up in text and art are not falsehoods, as some have claimed; they are intended to convey a non-literal message to the reader/viewer that communicates an understanding of the experience of god. God as "Him"; god as thunder; god as flaming bush; god as love; god as wisdom; the many-armed god; the many-breasted goddess; the vast unimaginable expanse of the universe as god; the heavens as god; the earth as goddess; the god as goddess; god as a cosmic force; god as morality; etc. These are the images of god, not god itself. The value of the metaphor is in what the words mean to you (and no one else), although we often turn to others to provide meaning and make sense of it, and if the explanation is satisfactory, we accept the metaphor as our own.

No I'm saying that they are all the same because they are based in faith that springs from the same human need. Whether the faith is justified in truth, or not, isn't relevant, really.
That I can agree with. The need behind religion, though, as I see it, is a need to bond or build a relationship with the "other", not the need to immerse oneself. It does not matter if the "other" is an actual being or imaginative.

We build images of god in order to have something to relate to. These images meant something to those who created them; and whether or not the same meaning is passed along to us, we know that the image is an expression of the author's meaning. It is art. It is metaphor. It bonded the people together under a common symbol, a common understanding.