NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash.htm#america

I take it no one is really surprised at this development since there has been talk about the US negotiating with terrorists for a while now.

(US negotiating with insurgents link)

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1669601,00.html


SECRET PLAN TO QUIT IRAQ
Sat Jul 09 2005 19:16:16 ET

BRITAIN and America are secretly preparing to withdraw most of their troops from Iraq - despite warnings of the grave consequences for the region, the SUNDAY MAIL in UK is reporting.

A secret paper written by UK Defence Secretary John Reid for Tony Blair reveals that many of the 8,500 British troops in Iraq are set to be brought home within three months, with most of the rest returning six months later.

The leaked document, marked Secret: UK Eyes Only, appears to fly in the face of Mr Blair and President Bush's pledges that Allied forces will not quit until Iraq's own forces are strong enough to take control of security.

If British troops pull out, other members of the Alliance are likely to follow. The memo says other international forces in Southern Iraq currently under British control will have to be handled carefully if Britain withdraws. It says they will not feel safe and may also leave.

Embarrassingly, the document says the Americans are split over the plan - and it suggests one of the reasons for getting British troops out is to save money. Mr Reid says cutting UK troop numbers to 3,000 by the middle of next year will save GBP 500million a year, though it will be 18 months before the cash comes through.

The document, Options For Future UK Force Posture In Iraq, is the first conclusive proof that preparations for a major withdrawal from Iraq are well advanced.

The British Government's public position is that UK troops will stay until newly trained Iraqi forces are ready to take control of security. Less than a fortnight ago, Mr Blair said it was 'vital' the US-led coalition stayed until Iraq stabilised, and Mr Bush endorsed his comments.

Mr Reid's memo, prepared for Mr Blair in the past few weeks, shows that in reality, plans to get them out - 'military drawdown,' as he puts it - are well advanced.

It says: 'We have a commitment to hand over to Iraqi control in Al Muthanna and Maysan provinces two of the four provinces under British control in Southern Iraq in October 2005 and in the other two, Dhi Qar and Basra, in April 2006.

Developing...


The only question is: What will happen afterwards globally on the "War on Terror" and what effect will this have on Republican politics since this is a de facto defeat in Iraq?

The kind of people who complain about withdrawing troops are the same people who complained about sending them*

*or at least over here anyway

UK memo says US, UK readying Iraqi withdrawal-report
09 Jul 2005 23:20:28 GMT

LONDON, July 10 - A leaked document from Britain's Defence Ministry says the British and U.S. governments are planning to reduce their troop levels in Iraq by more than half by mid-2006, the Mail on Sunday newspaper reported.

The memo, reportedly written by Defence Minister John Reid, said Britain would reduce its troop numbers to 3,000 from 8,500 by the middle of next year.

"We have a commitment to hand over to Iraqi control in Al Muthanna and Maysan provinces (two of the four provinces under British control in southern Iraq) in October 2005 and in the other two, Dhi Qar and Basra, in April 2006," the memo was reported to have said.

The memo said Washington planned to cut its forces to 66,000 from about 140,000 by early 2006.


source: www.Reuters.com

The kind of people who complain about withdrawing troops are the same people who complained about sending them*

*or at least over here anyway

I wonder if the war opponents will get any apologies from the pro-war crowd?

So many nasty things said and bullshit thrown around it would be the classy thing to do.

Well one of these is reported by the Daily mail so I don't hold a lot of faith in it really. But we shall see

I wonder if the war opponents will get any apologies from the pro-war crowd?

So many nasty things said and bullshit thrown around it would be the classy thing to do.

well they wont get any from me

I wonder if the war opponents will get any apologies from the pro-war crowd?

So many nasty things said and bullshit thrown around it would be the classy thing to do.

I wonder if the war supporters will get any apologies from the anti-war crowd?

With all the accusations of being murderers and killing children for oil, seems like the classy thing to do.

Do any of you realize that these talks with the Sunni Iraqi insurgents have been going on for awhile?

I wonder if the war supporters will get any apologies from the anti-war crowd?

With all the accusations of being murderers and killing children for oil, seems like the classy thing to do.

I wonder if war supporters and the anti-war crowd wait until a real paper actually covers it. Its the Mail for God sake

I wonder if war supporters and the anti-war crowd wait until a real paper actually covers it. Its the Mail for God sake

I agree...you may as well ask the bloody cat

I believe that this is known as "Getting the Hell Out of Dodge".

As many others have stated, The Mail is hardly Britian's most trustworthy paper.

I believe that this is known as "Getting the Hell Out of Dodge".

I believe Its the mail persuing its own political agenda. The Mail being anti Blair suddenly find a "secret document" that plans us withdrawing from Iraq only 3 days after the biggest attack London has seen since WW2. Coincidence ? To top that no other paper is reporting it.

Call me cynical but I just don't buy it

These types of reports "surface" all the time. If you listened to them all, we'd be out two days after we went in. Though it might be true that we will reduce our forces because not all of them are needed. A lot of things are possible, but I'd have to say that this is just BS.

Yea, the mail are bastards.

I believe Its the mail persuing its own political agenda. The Mail being anti Blair suddenly find a "secret document" that plans us withdrawing from Iraq only 3 days after the biggest attack London has seen since WW2. Coincidence ? To top that no other paper is reporting it.

Call me cynical but I just don't buy it


Given that the evidence, no matter how unreliable it may be
is at least as good as any of the evidence presented
as justification to go to war with Iraq. It surprises me that people
who don't need any actual evidence to feel it is okay to pursue
actions that cause the deaths of thousands and tens of thousands of
people suddenly want more information simply to believe that negotiations
may have taken place between the U.S. and some of the groups that
oppose the occupation of their country.

I guess its a matter of what a person considers important.

Given that the evidence, no matter how unreliable it may be
is at least as good as any of the evidence presented
as justification to go to war with Iraq. It surprises me that people
who don't need any actual evidence to feel it is okay to pursue
actions that cause the deaths of thousands and tens of thousands of
people suddenly want more information simply to believe that negotiations
may have taken place between the U.S. and some of the groups that
oppose the occupation of their country.

I guess its a matter of what a person considers important.

Irrelevent, especially as we are talking about whether the US and the UK are pulling out. Thats the past an we can't change it.

I was anti-war before the war started, but given the current situation thats irrelevent, the question is are we going to leave Iraq in a better state ?

Didn't Bush just say, in a televised speech, "when Iraq can stand up, we will stand down," or something to that effect?

Iraqi forces have been building and gaining experience.. so how would it be a defeat to defer to them somewhat, starting the middle of next year, or any other time, if they're ready?

Bush has been promising to leave when the Iraqi Army has control.. for years he's been saying it. I can understand liberals grasping for any straw that looks like good news for them, since they haven't been able to buy any since 2000, but this is too much.

Didn't Bush just say, in a televised speech, "when Iraq can stand up, we will stand down," or something to that effect?

Yes he did say that!

Iraqi forces have been building and gaining experience.. so how would it be a defeat to defer to them somewhat, starting the middle of next year, or any other time, if they're ready?

It isn't a defeat. It'll be a victory. Especially since they'll be able to defend themselves.

Bush has been promising to leave when the Iraqi Army has control.. for years he's been saying it. I can understand liberals grasping for any straw that looks like good news for them, since they haven't been able to buy any since 2000, but this is too much.

I agree with you 100%

It isn't a defeat. It'll be a victory. Especially since they'll be able to defend themselves.
Only if they're ready to defend themselves. And the U.S. is sooo deeply involved in Iraq, I don't see them leaving even within two years.

If insurgents keep coming from other countries, and Iraqi security forces only come from Iraq, it's not going to work out in the long run. That's why American forces, or at least private security forces from Britain and the U.S. will stay for many, many years to come.

I hope they make sure israel is safe from the evil palestine bombers before they leave!

Only if they're ready to defend themselves. And the U.S. is sooo deeply involved in Iraq, I don't see them leaving even within two years.

If insurgents keep coming from other countries, and Iraqi security forces only come from Iraq, it's not going to work out in the long run. That's why American forces, or at least private security forces from Britain and the U.S. will stay for many, many years to come.

And then there are reports that insurgents have infiltrated the military and police in Iraq.

I wouldn't count on success if the US does leave.

I hope they make sure israel is safe from the evil palestine bombers before they leave!

:rolleyes:
If they leave.

Journalists have agendas, even the most seemingly unbias sometimes regularly show bias in their articles.

It makes me wonder...what stops any journalists from any of the major papers from printing a totally false report? Since they can always quote "unnamed sources" or supposedly "top secret" documents without fear. And if the story every proves wrong they can always just quote unrelibile sources. There has been no check on reporters for years now, and i wonder just how much true news we actually get anymore. It is amazingly easy to make up fake news stories and have it appear in major papers. The Koran flushing incident is a perfect example of that. That story was proven to be totally false and quoted from an unnamed source of course, and people died because of it. Freedom of the press does not mean freedom to lie. If they can prove a reporters story to be falsified and the sources false they should be jailed instead of just having to print a retraction.

The Palestinians are to blame for all the middle east's problems.

And then there are reports that insurgents have infiltrated the military and police in Iraq.

I wouldn't count on success if the US does leave.
ah, how could I forget? That's so true, how are they to weed out the insurgents posing as "patriots" who will turn and wipe out his entire squad or whatever? We just kicked over a huge can of worms and we're just kicking over more. I hope I'm wrong about everything I've said about the war, for humanity's sake, but I'm probably right.

It's better to be pessimistic, that way you'll be pleasantly surprised more than dissappointed and prepared for the worst. But you must never lose sight of the good that may come.

The Palestinians are to blame for all the middle east's problems.

This is probably a stupid question but where are you from?

And then there are reports that insurgents have infiltrated the military and police in Iraq.

I wouldn't count on success if the US does leave.


again that is a report of a rumor, i hate when media does that. The problem is they dont watch their stuff very well and the armories are very frequently broken into, and it isnt the guns taken most the time, most of the time its the uniforms. Though Iraqi police uniforms have been duplicated and believe it or not are shipped to Iraqi terrorists out from the local mosques in Dearborn Heights, Michigan. Ive reported it dozens of times all the way up to the fbi...nobody cares...

That's so true, how are they to weed out the insurgents posing as "patriots" who will turn and wipe out his entire squad or whatever? We just kicked over a huge can of worms and we're just kicking over more. I hope I'm wrong about everything I've said about the war, for humanity's sake, but I'm probably right.



If the Iraqi Army is going to implode on itself after terrorists within all frag their fellow soldiers, they'd better get started soon. The Iraqi Army has been kicking down doors and arresting suspects for months now, without any of their own men going turnocoat.

If anything like that happens, which I doubt, evidence would be nice. Of course, I don't subscribe to the whole "fighting terrorists will only make them madder!" ideology..

This is probably a stupid question but where are you from?

Great britain, UK, England. WHY!

I wonder if the war supporters will get any apologies from the anti-war crowd?

With all the accusations of being murderers and killing children for oil, seems like the classy thing to do.

Since the anti-war were blaming the administration while the pro-war were attacking Bush critics (i.e. everyone else) I do believe we have more right to demand an apology.

Great britain, UK, England. WHY!

is it me or does this guy sound like Jabba hutts?

The kind of people who complain about withdrawing troops are the same people who complained about sending them*

*or at least over here anyway

That's what a thread that does not an act of trolling sounds like.

Never said I was complaining about the withdrawl. I was against it from the start. Now that we went in I merely wonder what the ramifications are now that leaving is more probable rather than saying until 'the war is won' (whatever that means).

is it me or does this guy sound like Jabba hutts?


Who is Jabba Hutz??

is it me or does this guy sound like Jabba hutts?

he sounds like a loon

he sounds like a loon

True but Jabba Hutts was also a loon too and he's talking just like him.

The kind of people who complain about withdrawing troops are the same people who complained about sending them*

*or at least over here anyway

Not in my case: I was strongly against sending them into Iraq, and welcome their withdrawal.

Not in my case: I was strongly against sending them into Iraq, and welcome their withdrawal.

and to hell with iraq?

and to hell with iraq?

Sending them in on a spurious pretext was a bad thing. There is little debate left over that.

Keeping foreign troops there can only create an artificial sense of security: they are going to have to be removed eventually, and whenever they are pulled there is going to be a power vaccuum. Would I sound like a callous bastard now if I was to say that the problems the people of Iraq face now are Iraqi problems and a lasting solution can only come from they themselves?

True but Jabba Hutts was also a loon too and he's talking just like him.

Who is this Jaba huts and why was he a loon? And why am I a loon because all people that disagree with you must be mentally impaired. Because you're opinion is so right that anyone who disagrees must be a loon? Are you that arrogant?

Who is this Jaba huts and why was he a loon? And why am I a loon because all people that disagree with you must be mentally impaired. Because you're opinion is so right that anyone who disagrees must be a loon? Are you that arrogant?

1. I have always been for the Iraq War. I've felt it to be the proper thing to do.
2. Palestine is not reponsible for everything that goes on in the Mid East. They are only responsible for the suicide bombing in Israel and that is being done by a very small minority of people. (yes I know they are popular but you know what I mean)
3. Only liberals think that if you disagree with them that you have a mental disease (yes a generalization. Not all liberals are like that)

1. I have always been for the Iraq War. I've felt it to be the proper thing to do.
2. Palestine is not reponsible for everything that goes on in the Mid East. They are only responsible for the suicide bombing in Israel and that is being done by a very small minority of people. (yes I know they are popular but you know what I mean)
3. Only liberals think that if you disagree with them that you have a mental disease (yes a generalization. Not all liberals are like that)


Corneliu that is so true what you said about the weak ass liberals. You are cool I never relised how cool you are.

Was it not the Daily mail newspaper that published forged pictures of British Soldiers torturing people in Iraq, which then led to British Soldiers and contractors being killed in the name of these photos?

This is a load of BS, the Daily Mail trying again to get ratings in a sick and twisted way.

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash.htm#america

I take it no one is really surprised at this development since there has been talk about the US negotiating with terrorists for a while now.





The only question is: What will happen afterwards globally on the "War on Terror" and what effect will this have on Republican politics since this is a de facto defeat in Iraq?

1. yay
2. who cares about republicans?
3. yay

It was also the Daily Mail that published the Zinoviev Letter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinoviev_Letter), they have a long legacy of suspect reporting.

1. yay
2. who cares about republicans?
3. yay

Well I do tend to be a bit more pragmatic than most. If there is a major change going down I'd like to know what is going to be the aftermath.

Granted I was against going in but after the US invaded Iraq it, although correct, became unreasonable to echo the dire warnings about going in. I feel it would be about as helpful as a Christian preaching about abstinence to a pregnant teen. The deed is done. Now we need to LEARN OUR LESSON, DEAL WITH THE CURRENT SITUATION and PREPARE FOR THE AFTERMATH?

Sad that a lot of people will belligerently march on and say they were correct, failing to admit they were wrong and inevitably ensuring that the failed philosophies of yesterday will be around tomorrow but life involves suffering such fools and you can't do much about it. Echoing the opposition is about all you can do and it will likely only bolster the more radical of the failed philosophy adherents. I'll Godwin myself and point out the rise of Neo Nazism after WWII.

I do wonder if the Republicans shot themselves in the foot big time though: they triumphed the importance of Iraq II but have to abandon it likely worse then they went in. I have no sympathy for them, but I do have sympathy for the people their decisions have affected.

It also makes me wonder if you can create a peace between the two ideologies to reduce the chance of an emergence of a more radical failed philosophy that finds strength in the opposition against it.

It was also the Daily Mail that published the Zinoviev Letter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinoviev_Letter), they have a long legacy of suspect reporting.

Although I don't want to poop on criticizing sources (its a good thing) but that occurred in 1924 according to the link.

Using more recent proof of deception (or just shitty journalism and fact checking) would be more equitable.

Was it not the Daily mail newspaper that published forged pictures of British Soldiers torturing people in Iraq, which then led to British Soldiers and contractors being killed in the name of these photos?
Daily Mirror - led to the resignation of Piers Morgan.
This is a load of BS, the Daily Mail trying again to get ratings in a sick and twisted way.
It would be par for the course, certainly.

Corneliu that is so true what you said about the weak ass liberals. You are cool I never relised how cool you are.LOL

Corneliu don't look now but...Jabba Hutts is wiping your ass clean with his tongue

:D :D :eek: :D

LOL

Corneliu don't look now but...Jabba Hutts is wiping your ass clean with his tongue

:D :D :eek: :D

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks he's Jabba Hutts. I thought I was about to go insane :D

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks he's Jabba Hutts. I thought I was about to go insane :DDude..one day you gotta tell me the secret to your intergalactic sex appeal.

:D :D

Dude..one day you gotta tell me the secret to your intergalactic sex appeal.

:D :D

Be polite as possible and try to appease to their egos. It works wonders :D

LOL OceanDrive2. Keep this up and I might take back all of my nasty comments I've hearled at you.

every now and then its good to take a relaxing break from the seriously heated debates we have...

I am glad you appreciate as much as I do.

1. I have always been for the Iraq War. I've felt it to be the proper thing to do.Perhaps it was the right thing to do, but the same can be said about several other nations. The selectiveness of the Bush administration is rather curious.

Yep, so secretly that Bush has been saying there is a pull-out plan for oh, months. And it's going to take years...

Perhaps it was the right thing to do, but the same can be said about several other nations. The selectiveness of the Bush administration is rather curious.
http://www.bordergatewayprotocol.net/~jon/humor/images/blatent_propoganda2/youre_next.jpg

That sounds like hogwash to me, there my be some sort of scaledown in the future, but withdrawing completely?

No way!, because some terrorist coo, would attempt a takeover and we'd have this to do all over again. Stay the course and get this war behind us.

I also worry that, everytime we Allied states help a nation get out of trouble, we arm them and train them, then end up with bigger problem's. Let's hope things are different this time.

No way!, because some terrorist coo, would attempt a takeover and we'd have this to do all over again. Stay the course and get this war behind us.

You mean a coup? And usually the coup is instigated by the CIA. That's how Saddam got in power in the first place, and how the Democracy in Chile under Allende was taken down and how the democratic party in Nicuragua was destroyed. Oh yes, spreadin' democracy!