NationStates Jolt Archive

The U.S. flag code states that to dispose of a beat-up, you must get rid of it in a dignified way, preferably by burning. And since flag-burning is about to become illegal, what is a proper way to dispose of the American Flag? The garbage disposal?

The U.S. flag code states that to dispose of a beat-up, you must get rid of it in a dignified way, preferably by burning. And since flag-burning is about to become illegal, what is a proper way to dispose of the American Flag? The garbage disposal?
There is a difference between burning a flag in a dignified manner and an undignified manner. As far as I know, you should ask a relevant institution what to do if you want to retire a flag.

I'd go with eating.

a special flag dump? you could call it the freedom landfill. or is that forcing the metaphor?

Technically, what the new constitutional amendment seeks to allow is a ban on flag "desecration."

That begs the question of what is flag desecration.

Disposing of a flag by burning it presumably would not qualify.

(Which goes to show even more that the ban is an attempt to regulate freedom of expression.)

More interesting is whether other provisions of the flag code that suggest wearing an image of the flag on clothing, disposable flags, and using flags in advertising are a violations of the flag code. Are they all flag desecration?

It's bullshit, no matter what it is. It's cloth! Come on!!

Give it to your dog as a nice floor mat. Do whatever you want with it.

Theres a proper procedure for burning a flag the 'correct' way.
Basicaly, you do in a semi-reverential manner, you cut the stars off, then burn both bits.
My years of being in Boy Scouts has finnaly payed off! w00t!

1) Wood-chipper.

2) Dissolve in acid.

3) Bury in marked grave.

4) Dye it black; then burn it.

5) Bury in unmarked grave.

6) Cover with honey, stake it to the ground adjacent to ant-hill.

7) Two words: Space Shuttle.

8) Recycle into patriotic mop-heads.

9) Leave them on Canada's doorstep, ring the front doorbell, then run away.

10) Budgerigar toys.

1) Wood-chipper.

2) Dissolve in acid.

3) Bury in marked grave.

4) Dye it black; then burn it.

5) Bury in unmarked grave.

6) Cover with honey, stake it to the ground adjacent to ant-hill.

7) Two words: Space Shuttle.

8) Recycle into patriotic mop-heads.

9) Leave them on Canada's doorstep, ring the front doorbell, then run away.

10) Budgerigar toys.

Brilliant.

I don't understand why someone burning a flag is so threatening. I understand that it's a symbol of a nation, but that's all it is, a symbol. Why the need to legislate against it. It's hardly going to bring down your nation.

I don't understand why someone burning a flag is so threatening. I understand that it's a symbol of a nation, but that's all it is, a symbol. Why the need to legislate against it. It's hardly going to bring down your nation.

My thoughts... STOP STEALING MY THOUGHTS!!!

*throws bat*

*watches as it misses you by five metres to the left*

...Shit. That always happens.

My thoughts... STOP STEALING MY THOUGHTS!!!

*throws bat*

*watches as it misses you by five metres to the left*

...Shit. That always happens.

Put your tin foil hat on, you'll be fine. As for your arm, it's just practice, practice, practice (& maybe some weights).

Put your tin foil hat on, you'll be fine. As for your arm, it's just practice, practice, practice (& maybe some weights).

No, no, no, no, no. It's the wind.

No, no, no, no, no. It's the wind.

Well, baked beans will do that to you.

Well, baked beans will do that to you.

I don't eat them, damnit... Well, not in the past three days, anyway :p.

I don't eat them, damnit... Well, not in the past three days, anyway :p.

What about cabbage? Onions? Lentils? Chickpeas? They'll all have a similar effect.

What about cabbage? Onions? Lentils? Chickpeas? They'll all have a similar effect.

I don't eat cabbage... Ever. Onions? Not in the last... Two days, and they've never had that "effect" on me. I've never touched lentils or chickpeas.

:p

I don't eat cabbage... Ever. Onions? Not in the last... Two days, and they've never had that "effect" on me. I've never touched lentils or chickpeas.

:p

Well in that case, you've only got yourself to blame. :p

Well in that case, you've only got yourself to blame. :p

Wind.

Are they serious? There are laws about what can be done to a US flag?
That's silly...

Anyways, why not encourage a little bit of entrepreneurship and sell them to places from Palestine to Iran?
You could buy some off your friends as well and start a business empire!

Are they serious? There are laws about what can be done to a US flag?
That's silly...

Anyways, why not encourage a little bit of entrepreneurship and sell them to places from Palestine to Iran?
You could buy some off your friends as well and start a business empire!

Yes, a very different meaning. :D You could stir up a real hornet's nest if you're not careful.

Old flags in need of retiring are given to the Boy Scouts or the Veterans Administration in the USA. They handle proper disposal. Who better than one who fought for it.

Burning of the flag as a statement says you dont believe in your country.
If you dont believe in your country why are you there?

Its a simple matter of Patriotism. You don't have to like your government or its leaders to be a Patriot and love your country. You might as well go down to the Veterans building and spit in their eye.

...You might as well go down to the Veterans building and spit in their eye.
...and you won't even have to run away that quickly...those old people can't run very fast anyway.
Although...there still are the various Gulf Wars...
:D

They can't run, but they can throw a mean bat... :D

You might as well go down to the Veterans building and spit in their eye.

except that a veteran is a human being who risked his life for a cause greater than himself, while a flag is a piece of cloth that, while symbolizing something, is in and of itself meaningless. you do know the difference, right?

except that a veteran is a human being who risked his life for a cause greater than himself, while a flag is a piece of cloth that, while symbolizing something, is in and of itself meaningless. you do know the difference, right?

According to modern textual criticism, nothing has meaning by itself. Something only means something when somebody looks at it and thinks about it, and how they look at it and think about it depends entirely on their life experiences and the world they grew up in.
</offtopic>
Burn the fucking flag, for fun. Hell I'll go buy an American flag from a store, burn it, then jerk off to some amateur porn on a website that doesn't have proper documentation of its subjects. I can do this, because I don't live in America and hence am not subjected to your shitty, restrictive, bible-belt nutcase mentality legislation.

....

Burning of the flag as a statement says you dont believe in your country.
If you dont believe in your country why are you there?

.....
.
Um ... where else would you be?

Anyway, it's an USA thing. Here in the UK, burning the flag means you're cold and you've run out of fire-lighters. (Though what on earth a British subject would be doing with a Union flag in the first place, I don't know.)

ASISTED FLAG SUICIDE IS MURDER!! FEEDING TUBES FOR FLAGS!!

now that that's out of the way, i am curious as to weather this affects the adbuster flag/

Um ... where else would you be?

Anyway, it's an USA thing. Here in the UK, burning the flag means you're cold and you've run out of fire-lighters. (Though what on earth a British subject would be doing with a Union flag in the first place, I don't know.)

Most people in Aus would think negatively of you for burning the flag, but they'd also wonder why on earth you would be getting so worked up about it.

ASISTED FLAG SUICIDE IS MURDER!! FEEDING TUBES FOR FLAGS!!
I laughed.

A flag is a flag. Some stars, a couple of lines, no particular god. Will you be cursed? Why the to do with the flags, especially American. :confused:

According to modern textual criticism, nothing has meaning by itself. Something only means something when somebody looks at it and thinks about it, and how they look at it and think about it depends entirely on their life experiences and the world they grew up in.

deconstructionist theory as applied to flag burning *golf claps*

...the second thing, perhaps, was a tad over the top :p

They can't run, but they can throw a mean bat... :D
not to forget the "wind"...
;)

not to forget the "wind"...
;)

Bats? Wind? I'm buggered if I know what you two are talking about.

According to the American Flag code, section 8(k):
The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.

http://straylight.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode04/usc_sup_01_4_10_1.html

Here's the entire list, just out of interest for you fellas:
§ 8. Respect for flag

No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.
(a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.
(b) The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.
(c) The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.
(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker’s desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.
(e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way.
(f) The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling.
(g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.
(h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.
(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.
(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.
(k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.

A flag is a flag. Some stars, a couple of lines, no particular god. Will you be cursed? Why the to do with the flags, especially American. :confused:
There is a lot of symbolism in burning a flag, be it your own or another country's.
Personally, I think it is much better to burn your own flag if you feel wronged by your country than burn another country's flag for their policies or whatever.
But I think America freaking out about its own and other country's citizens burning the holy stars and stripes just means that more people will feel like doing it, just as a protest to the blind patriotism of it all.
I feel like burning an American flag right now. It's so ugly, I can't stand it. It itself is ugly and boring, and what it stands for is even more revolting.
If I saw people in another country burning the Australian flag, it would send a clear message to me that diplomatic relations with that country are not good. Depending on their reason for doing it, I would either congratulate them and hope my government's various executives were paying attention, or feel slight distaste towards that country. It just depends.

The US flag code isn't excatly "law" as much as it is merely suggestions about how to handle the flag. "Flag burning" isn't about to become "illegal", the US legislature is proposing an amendment to the Constitution that would give Congress the power to make it illegal (if they wanted). That amendment has passed only through the House and still needs to pass the Senate and then be ratified by 2/3 of the States before it is adopted. This is not likely to happen despite the numerous attempts in the past decade or so. The reason it's a big deal is that it would become the second time in US history the Constitution is amended to TAKE AWAY the rights of citizens - the first being the 18th amendment that made consumption of alcohol illegal and was later repealed by the 21st amendment. Further such an amendment would directly abridge the protections of the 1st amendment that unequivocally gives citizens he right to "free speech" (Congress shall make NO LAW ....). So, if flag desecration becomes illegal, it doesn't much matter what the Flag code says because it has no force of law. Additionally, the difference between burning to dispose and burning to express is one of intent and is reasonably ascertainable. But, in the end of the day, it doesn't really matter because this amendment has failed before and it will fail again.

The US flag code isn't excatly "law" as much as it is merely suggestions about how to handle the flag. "Flag burning" isn't about to become "illegal", the US legislature is proposing an amendment to the Constitution that would give Congress the power to make it illegal (if they wanted). That amendment has passed only through the House and still needs to pass the Senate and then be ratified by 2/3 of the States before it is adopted. This is not likely to happen despite the numerous attempts in the past decade or so. The reason it's a big deal is that it would become the second time in US history the Constitution is amended to TAKE AWAY the rights of citizens - the first being the 18th amendment that made consumption of alcohol illegal and was later repealed by the 21st amendment. Further such an amendment would directly abridge the protections of the 1st amendment that unequivocally gives citizens he right to "free speech" (Congress shall make NO LAW ....). So, if flag desecration becomes illegal, it doesn't much matter what the Flag code says because it has no force of law. Additionally, the difference between burning to dispose and burning to express is one of intent and is reasonably ascertainable. But, in the end of the day, it doesn't really matter because this amendment has failed before and it will fail again.

The US flag code isn't excatly "law" as much as it is merely suggestions about how to handle the flag. "Flag burning" isn't about to become "illegal", the US legislature is proposing an amendment to the Constitution that would give Congress the power to make it illegal (if they wanted). That amendment has passed only through the House and still needs to pass the Senate and then be ratified by 2/3 of the States before it is adopted. This is not likely to happen despite the numerous attempts in the past decade or so. The reason it's a big deal is that it would become the second time in US history the Constitution is amended to TAKE AWAY the rights of citizens - the first being the 18th amendment that made consumption of alcohol illegal and was later repealed by the 21st amendment. Further such an amendment would directly abridge the protections of the 1st amendment that unequivocally gives citizens he right to "free speech" (Congress shall make NO LAW ....). So, if flag desecration becomes illegal, it doesn't much matter what the Flag code says because it has no force of law. Additionally, the difference between burning to dispose and burning to express is one of intent and is reasonably ascertainable. But, in the end of the day, it doesn't really matter because this amendment has failed before and it will fail again.

Demented Hamsters, is that list for real? I have never laughed harder in...well, not my life, but at least 48 hours. It is just a flag. It means nothing at all. Why not wear it, or use it to cover a ceiling? Let it touch the floor- remind us that the US is a down to earth nation...

Bats? Wind? I'm buggered if I know what you two are talking about.
Just having a laugh. Someone before said something about "you might as well be spitting a veteran in the eye" - and so I figured if you did, they couldn't go after you quickly.
He said something about their bats, and I referred to the wind, ie farts, that was talked about early in the thread...
Don't take it too seriously. ;)

The flag is the foremost symbol of the united states. For an american to burn the flag is taken quite differently than if someone from another country lit the match. Patriotic citizens view it as treason.

How many people think of national pride any more?

Go to your local VFW Post (Veterans of Foreign Wars). They'll happily take old flags and destroy them in the appropriate manner.

For all of you whom just don't get it: the flag symbolizes different things to different people. I personally won't burn one as a form of protest, but I respect someone else's right to.

That said, a flag must be treated with respect, as it's a symbol, just like a Bible, a Koran, a Torah, or whatever. For those of you whom would use a flag for a dropcloth, how would you feel if I used your favorite shirt for toilet paper?

ALSO: Don't fly the flag upside down as a form of protest. That's just stupid. It's an acknowledged sign of trouble, just like shooting off flares or ... --- ... is in Morse Code.

[/soapbox]

Just having a laugh. Someone before said something about "you might as well be spitting a veteran in the eye" - and so I figured if you did, they couldn't go after you quickly.
He said something about their bats, and I referred to the wind, ie farts, that was talked about early in the thread...
Don't take it too seriously. ;)

It's my mistake. My reply was meant to be a joke, but I forgot to add the wink ;) smily. No offense is taken, I should be apologising to you.

PS You'll have to try much harder than that to offend me. :)

Um ... where else would you be?

Anyway, it's an USA thing. Here in the UK, burning the flag means you're cold and you've run out of fire-lighters. (Though what on earth a British subject would be doing with a Union flag in the first place, I don't know.)

Not really. The UK recently had a little flag flap:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/norfolk/4116988.stm

As for Aussies, you guys barely have a flag you can all get behind, which is probably why it's not a contentious issue.
http://www.ausflag.com.au/debate/pollhist.html

So, please substitute enforced vegatarianism and prohibition of alcohol. Think that'd upset enough of ya? :D

Interestingly, Canada ALSO has flag ettiquette!
http://www.pch.gc.ca/progs/cpsc-ccsp/etiquette/4_e.cfm

Not really. The UK recently had a little flag flap:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/norfolk/4116988.stm

...

Meh. That was in East Anglia; it's our equivalent of America's deep south.

For the vast majority of us, the flag is no big deal other than in ceremonies. Remember British squaddies going to war in the Falklands wearing Union Jack underpants? Disrespecting the flag over here is generally a bit of a laugh, nothing to take seriously.

Meh. That was in East Anglia; it's our equivalent of America's deep south.

For the vast majority of us, the flag is no big deal other than in ceremonies. Remember British squaddies going to war in the Falklands wearing Union Jack underpants? Disrespecting the flag over here is generally a bit of a laugh, nothing to take seriously.

It's good to see that stereotypes exist over there, too. :rolleyes:

Not really. The UK recently had a little flag flap:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/norfolk/4116988.stm

As for Aussies, you guys barely have a flag you can all get behind, which is probably why it's not a contentious issue.
http://www.ausflag.com.au/debate/pollhist.html

So, please substitute enforced vegatarianism and prohibition of alcohol. Think that'd upset enough of ya? :D

Interestingly, Canada ALSO has flag ettiquette!
http://www.pch.gc.ca/progs/cpsc-ccsp/etiquette/4_e.cfm

The new flag design is a dead issue here at the moment, hasn't really been on the agenda since the early 90s.

Prohibition of alcohol though, we'll go to war with anyone (& everyone) to prevent that. It's the first, most important and overrides all other, articles in our constitution.

1.0 Every person within the Commonwealth of Australia, regardless of their nationality, has the right to unfettered access to alcohol and the right to get as pissed as they physically can, as often as they desire.

2.0 There's probably not much else worth mentioning.

3.0 Have we already mentioned the unfettered rights of access to the pub and the bottle shop?

4.0 Just double checking about the freedom of alcohol situation.

Take that away from us & we have nothing. :D

The new flag design is a dead issue here at the moment, hasn't really been on the agenda since the early 90s.

Prohibition of alcohol though, we'll go to war with anyone (& everyone) to prevent that. It's the first, most important and overrides all other, articles in our constitution.

1.0 Every person within the Commonwealth of Australia, regardless of their nationality, has the right to unfettered access to alcohol and the right to get as pissed as they physically can, as often as they desire.

2.0 There's probably not much else worth mentioning.

3.0 Have we already mentioned the unfettered rights of access to the pub and the bottle shop?

4.0 Just double checking about the freedom of alcohol situation.

Take that away from us & we have nothing. :D

Excellent. Hopefully, you now understand the passion with which some folks dive into anti-flag burning. :)

(hoists beer glass in a south-westerly direction)

In general, Australian's adoration for their flag doesn't really exist unlike the US where passions are more involved about flying the flag. I'd like the Eureka flag to be adopted instead of the current one.

You know, I feel that people have lost touch with morals, values, and respect in general. Ok, so the flag is cloth, just a symbol, blah blah blah. I've heard everything that the yuppie sqawn can spew out of their mouths. There's a reason that respect is paid to our nations flag. The thought of having the freedom to do so should generate patriotism, not stupid and selfish thoughts that you should burn it to gain attention. I served as a Marine for 4 years. I not only served for the president, or my friends and family, but I also served the flag. In a way, that flag was the only thing I had to relate to the concept that I was a Marine who also served for the hopeful greater good of my nation. Yes, the flag is a symbol, that stands for many proud people who served for and under that flag. Many people have given up their old lives just to be able to say that "mundane" pledge of allegience. There's a reason that when we buried my fellow Marine, his family was presented with the flag of the United States of America. It's the symbol that helped shape him into a man. The symbol that he lived and died to help preserve. If you cant display simple respect, then your just damn lazy. Damn people, if nothing else, it's just the right thing to do.
:sigh: how far we have fallen......

RIP CPL Paul C Holter ........................never forget.................

In general, Australian's adoration for their flag doesn't really exist unlike the US where passions are more involved about flying the flag. I'd like the Eureka flag to be adopted instead of the current one.

Ditto that.

I rescued a flag on the fourth. It was small attached to a stick on a suction cup , and laying in the street at a stoplight. I got out of the car picked it up, shook it out and mounted it to the inside of the car window where it wouldnt fall off. How many americans would have just left it there? I dont know. I didnt.

Here here to the aussies and the beer. Cheers.

It gets annoying though with the references to the deep south and flag patriotism. Why must a red-neck conotation go along with references to patriotism?

Actually this post brings to mind a pretty interesting (and rather frightening) point that I heard of in the last bout of flag-burning hooey.
Since you can burn flags to retire them OR as a form of protest, a ban on flag burning is not going after the burning of the flag itself, but rather what you're THINKING as you do it.
Yep, thoughtcrime.

It's good to see that stereotypes exist over there, too. :rolleyes:
I'm allowed to be rude - it's an integral part of my cultural heritage. Not only am I English, but I'm an Essex boy. Which means that I am from East Anglia. :p

Actually this post brings to mind a pretty interesting (and rather frightening) point that I heard of in the last bout of flag-burning hooey.
Since you can burn flags to retire them OR as a form of protest, a ban on flag burning is not going after the burning of the flag itself, but rather what you're THINKING as you do it.
Yep, thoughtcrime.

Actually, it's the MANNER in which it is burned. It's perfectly legal to yell "fire!" if there is one, but not in a crowded theatre when there isn't one.

Or, it's perfectly legal to print something and post it, but not if it is slanderous.

Or, I can carry my .45 anywhere I want, so long as it's not into a government building, house of worship, school, or while I'm drinking in a bar.

I'm allowed to be rude - it's an integral part of my cultural heritage. Not only am I English, but I'm an Essex boy. Which means that I am from East Anglia. :p

Far be it for me (an American) to lecture anybody on manners. :D

The new flag design is a dead issue here at the moment, hasn't really been on the agenda since the early 90s.

Prohibition of alcohol though, we'll go to war with anyone (& everyone) to prevent that. It's the first, most important and overrides all other, articles in our constitution.

1.0 Every person within the Commonwealth of Australia, regardless of their nationality, has the right to unfettered access to alcohol and the right to get as pissed as they physically can, as often as they desire.

2.0 There's probably not much else worth mentioning.

3.0 Have we already mentioned the unfettered rights of access to the pub and the bottle shop?

4.0 Just double checking about the freedom of alcohol situation.

Take that away from us & we have nothing. :D
Shut up.

Sorry, I tried to formulate a witty response to your hideously stupid post, but nothing sounded quite right. Australia gets the worst stereotypes and national identifiers, most of which are only enforced by people like you. Alcoholism is a huge social problem in many countries, and it is certainly nothing to be proud of as a national icon. Alcohol abuse is the cause of countless deaths, injuries, mental health problems, family and relationship breakdowns and many, many other problems in society.

I'm allowed to be rude - it's an integral part of my cultural heritage. Not only am I English, but I'm an Essex boy. Which means that I am from East Anglia. :p

Essex man eh? Congratulations for not only making it to the keyboard, but also being so eloquent. ;)

Essex man eh? Congratulations for not only making it to the keyboard, but also being so eloquent. ;)
Pfft. I'm wearing my White Socks of Power. With those on, nothing is beyond me! And luckily, being from Essex, less than nothing is precisely what I have come to expect from life. :D

Actually, it's the MANNER in which it is burned. It's perfectly legal to yell "fire!" if there is one, but not in a crowded theatre when there isn't one.

Or, it's perfectly legal to print something and post it, but not if it is slanderous.

Or, I can carry my .45 anywhere I want, so long as it's not into a government building, house of worship, school, or while I'm drinking in a bar.
I might buy that if flag-burning bans themselves weren't egregious assaults on the freedom of expression in the first place. Now, I'm not a legal scholar or anything so please correct me if I'm off on anything.
The flag code posted earlier says:
The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.
This is the LAW for dealing with disposal of flags. It says nothing about the manner in which the flag is disposed of. There is a set of rules (http://www.centurytel.net/amlegionlacrosse/flagdisp.htm) created by The American Legion on the proper manner of disposal, but it's not legally binding.

Shut up.

Sorry, I tried to formulate a witty response to your hideously stupid post, but nothing sounded quite right. Australia gets the worst stereotypes and national identifiers, most of which are only enforced by people like you. Alcoholism is a huge social problem in many countries, and it is certainly nothing to be proud of as a national icon. Alcohol abuse is the cause of countless deaths, injuries, mental health problems, family and relationship breakdowns and many, many other problems in society.

It was a joke response to a joke stereotype post. It's not serious, I'm sorry if you didn't think it was funny, but to emphasise, it's not serious. I can cope with stereotypes others put on us, because I know they're not the be-all and end-all of who we are. I'm sorry if alcoholism has had a bad (direct or indirect) effect on you, but ease up. My uncle and agrandfather were both alcoholics and both died of alcoholic complications. It's something we all carry with us. I enjoy a beer & a joke with my family & friends. Live and let live.