NationStates Jolt Archive

Christians are controlled by the Republican Party. The wealthy Republicans have managed to convince millions of middle class Christians that things like welfare are wrong, and that we should close our borders to immigrants. It's almost like a new denomination of Christianity-- Republichristianism. Emphasis on Republi being put before Christ.

Jesus taught us that we should care for the poor, but that seems to be lost on far too many Christians today. They put their five dollars in the plate on Sunday and think it's all good. They believe that all poor people are lazy and deserve to be poor, because that's what the leaders of the Republican Party want them to think. If they would simply stop and read the New Testament, they would see that the Republican Party does not support the biggest values of Christianity; they just make it look like they support Christian values by saying God bless America over and over. They are, in fact, doing a lot of the devil's work for him. Where in the Bible did Jesus say "screw the poor!" or "immigrants are servants of the devil and should be turned away?"

However, the Democrats aren't helping. They are just alienating themselves from the Christians of this country by attacking things like the Ten Commandments in a court house. They're driving the Christians to the Republicans. I understand trying to keep seperation of church and state, but they take it too far. Having the Ten Commandments artwork in the court house is no different from having a statue of some Greek mythological figure, yet the Democrats decided to make a big deal out of it. If they would simply be a little more Christian friendly, we'd probably have a Democrat in office right now.

I've had some bad encounters with Republichristians (i.e. Isle of Believers), and I feel that it is a growing problem. More Christians need to sit down and read the Bible.

I'm not too fond of the Republicans either, but I suppose it's better to go with the lesser of two evils. I've always put more emphasis on social policies than on economic policies, and, recently, the left has really gotten on my bad side...

I'm not too fond of the Republicans either, but I suppose it's better to go with the lesser of two evils. I've always put more emphasis on social policies than on economic policies, and, recently, the left has really gotten on my bad side...The left is getting more and more ridiculous, but I think that Jesus would care more about the poor than about whether gays can have civil unions or not.

The left is getting more and more ridiculous, but I think that Jesus would care more about the poor than about whether gays can have civil unions or not.
As Howard Dean mentioned on the Daily Show, there are 3,000 references to helping the poor in the bible, and not one mention of gay marriage. (that's a paraphrase of what he said, so don't jump on me for anything you disagree with)

Of course, to which Jon Stewart responded: Well, don't spoil the ending for me...I haven't got through it yet. I'm about 3/4ths the way through.


Of course, Jon Stewart is Jewish.

I am a Christian conservative Republican who was once a Democrat. I eventually figured out that the Democratic Party was hostile to my beliefs and went Republican. I put God before party and so do all the other Republicans I know, and I live in a Red state.

The left is getting more and more ridiculous, but I think that Jesus would care more about the poor than about whether gays can have civil unions or not.



All sin, be it repression of the poor or homosexuality, is the same in the eyes of God. That being said, I am an avid Christian socialist :D

As Howard Dean mentioned on the Daily Show, there are 3,000 references to helping the poor in the bible, and not one mention of gay marriage. (that's a paraphrase of what he said, so don't jump on me for anything you disagree with)

Of course, to which Jon Stewart responded: Well, don't spoil the ending for me...I haven't got through it yet. I'm about 3/4ths the way through.


Of course, Jon Stewart is Jewish.



Homosexuality is condemned, so why condemn gay marriages too? It would be a bit superfluous :p

Homosexuality is condemned, so why condemn gay marriages too? It would be a bit superfluous :p
Then why don't Republicans ban Homosexuality instead of Gay Marriage?

Then why don't Republicans ban Homosexuality instead of Gay Marriage?



Good question.

All sin, be it repression of the poor or homosexuality, is the same in the eyes of God. That being said, I am an avid Christian socialist :D

The Bible never says the government should force people to give to the poor (not in the NT anyway and the passages in the OT assume the people have a God worshipping king). It should be an individual decision for each person.

Good question.
Is it because that would never fly, and so they'll just mask it by treating homosexuals as 2nd class citizens, right?

Does the Bible also say that there is only one God, and so why aren't Republicans trying to ban people from celebrating non-Christian religions?

Oh...because the founding fathers didn't found a theocracy...

By the way...Undelia, I like the typo in your sig. Rep-reset-native

Both the Republican and the Democrat parties show some genuine respect of the Christian moral system (at least, to some aspects). But both parties fail to display any will to apply the whole thing, or at least to have a coherent approach.

Instead, they focus on SOME of the teachings. Democrats will insist on the inclusive aspects (as Jesus pardoned to the prostitute, healed the leprous [unclean] man, welcomed everybody, and challenged the rich), on wealth sharing, and on redemption. The Republican party insists more on the moral boundaries: what's acceptable, what's not. They also insist on Christian charity, and on merit-based judgement (which are all compatible with the Bible's teachings).

But... both parties fail to be morally sound, and to be "good Christians" overall. What did you expect? THESE ARE POLITICAL PARTIES, not people. And political parties don't have a soul. Otherwise, given that Hell exists, they would all roast there.

By the way...Undelia, I like the typo in your sig. Rep-reset-native

DANG IT!

The Bible never says the government should force people to give to the poor (not in the NT anyway and the passages in the OT assume the people have a God worshipping king). It should be an individual decision for each person.



I was referring to the communal distribution of goods that was exhibited in the New Testament by the early church. It's like communism, except entirely voluntary and uncorruptible.

The Bible never says the government should force people to give to the poor (not in the NT anyway and the passages in the OT assume the people have a God worshipping king). It should be an individual decision for each person.
The Bible also never says the government should force people to live sin-less lives. So how is the government justified in banning homosexual marriage on the basis that homosexuality is a sin if the government is not justified in helping the poor, despite what the bible says about helping the poor?

The laws we have are designed not to govern how people live and make cultural decisions for them, but rather to protect people's rights from being trampled on. Constitutional amendments protect citizens from the government. Laws against murder, robbery, etc., protect citizens from other citizens. Laws against gay marriage don't protect anyone except Christians who want to decide what other people can do.

The Bible also never says the government should force people to live sin-less lives. So how is the government justified in banning homosexual marriage on the basis that homosexuality is a sin if the government is not justified in helping the poor, despite what the bible says about helping the poor?

The laws we have are designed not to govern how people live and make cultural decisions for them, but rather to protect people's rights from being trampled on. Constitutional amendments protect citizens from the government. Laws against murder, robbery, etc., protect citizens from other citizens. Laws against gay marriage don't protect anyone except Christians who want to decide what other people can do.



Do you think God wants us to oppose sin or accept it? I'm going to bed, I'll check your answer in the morning.

I was referring to the communal distribution of goods that was exhibited in the New Testament by the early church. It's like communism, except entirely voluntary and uncorruptible.

And until such time as we have a group of men as devout as the apostles running the distribution, I shall retain the title given to me by the moral compass website: “Extreme Capitalist”

The Bible also never says the government should force people to live sin-less lives. So how is the government justified in banning homosexual marriage on the basis that homosexuality is a sin if the government is not justified in helping the poor, despite what the bible says about helping the poor?

The government is not justified in banning gay marriage, it is not justified to even be a part of marriage in the first place IMHO.

The government is not justified in banning gay marriage, it is not justified to even be a part of marriage in the first place IMHO.
I like this answer from you, as it shows consistency in your logic concerning the Bible, and government.

Do you think God wants us to oppose sin or accept it? I'm going to bed, I'll check your answer in the morning.
First off, let me point out something. You haven't kept in mind the fact that we're talking about your God. I'm agnostic. It hasn't held me back from having good morals, and more importantly, sound logic.

So I answer your question with a question, do you think the founding fathers wanted us to oppose liberty that did not intrude the liberties of others, or accept it?

Do you think God wants us to oppose sin or accept it? I'm going to bed, I'll check your answer in the morning.
It depends on what doctrine you believe.

Do you believe in:
1) Universal Redemption
Jesus has taken the burden of all our sins, and thus we're all going to Heaven if we repent. In such a system, God opposes our sins, but He will have mercy on us.
Example: United Church Christians, Anglicans

2) Election
People are "chosen" to be good -- or bad -- before they are born. Sinners don't have the choice to sin, they're constantly failing. They're damned from the beginning, and cannot be saved. The chosen ones (the elected) are guided by God's light. In this system, God decides who's a sinner, and thus it is not clear if we're responsible for our sins -- or not. But we can infer that God accepts our sins, since our "sinful state" is decided by Him.
Example: Calvinists, Lutherans

3) Salvation
We are born with the original sin, but with some great efforts, we can be saved through our good acts and if we repent. Otherwise we go to Hell. In such a system, God clearly opposes our sins.
Example: Catholics

Yhe republican party pretty much is a "white" christian party. more than 3/4th of the members are white and devout christians. The whole gay thing with the republicans is kinda screwed up. In the bible yes it does say its a sin along with beastiality. but so is wearign cotton with another fabric on it. The passage about homosexuality is in the old testament. A lot of the thigns from there are extreme and not interpeted as hard. So why interpet the gay thing so hard. the government needs to understand that many people are chritian but sometimes dont follow the bible pricisely.

All sin, be it repression of the poor or homosexuality, is the same in the eyes of God. That being said, I am an avid Christian socialist :D

T_T why does this ignorance never stop.. homosexuality is not a sin.. pre-marital sex is a sin.. get it right.. homosexuals are no more sinful then the heterosexuals who forincate out of wedlock.... he without sin first cast the first stone isn't it ?

If your going to be religious.. get it right as you otherwise make us all look bad

I believe that God doesn't care if you worship god, nothing, or the rock on your lawn., I don't think God cares that your mate is the same gender. I believe that if you lived a life helping others and just being nice, then that what counts, not obeying some 4000 years old words on a paper written and edited my who knows how many people. That is my belief and tell me, whats so evil about that.

Welfare is wrong, when provided to able bodied and mentally capable individuals. It builds a dependency on government that liberals have counted on for years. It puts people in a position they cannot get out of and are therefore dependent on there benefactors good will to survive. It is how they gain power and it is a disgusting way to govern.
At least the republicans favor teaching someone the skills they need to make their own way in life and to thrive in a competitive enviorment. I would much prefer to thrive in a free market, than live under the thumb off the crumbs that socialist elites throw to their feet, any day. That is not living. It is existing.

Actually, the New Testament is like 1700 years old, right?

Liverbreath']Welfare is wrong, when provided to able bodied and mentally capable individuals. It builds a dependency on government that liberals have counted on for years. It puts people in a position they cannot get out of and are therefore dependent on there benefactors good will to survive. It is how they gain power and it is a disgusting way to govern.
At least the republicans favor teaching someone the skills they need to make their own way in life and to thrive in a competitive enviorment. I would much prefer to thrive in a free market, than live under the thumb off the crumbs that socialist elites throw to their feet, any day. That is not living. It is existing.

Not to long ago, my dad lost his job. He collected unemployment every week that he was unemployed so that he would not have to take money out of his retirement funds he has built up so that he can support himself when he does retire. The result? About 2 months later, he's got a similar job that pays just as well.

...so...based off real-life experience, which concerning welfare, you probably haven't experienced, I can say that your argument isn't that strong...

Not to long ago, my dad lost his job. He collected unemployment every week that he was unemployed so that he would not have to take money out of his retirement funds he has built up so that he can support himself when he does retire. The result? About 2 months later, he's got a similar job that pays just as well.

...so...based off real-life experience, which concerning welfare, you probably haven't experienced, I can say that your argument isn't that strong...The same exact thing happened to my dad back in the 90's. He got layed off, and the job market was bad, so we had to use welfare for a few months while he tried to get a job.

Not to long ago, my dad lost his job. He collected unemployment every week that he was unemployed so that he would not have to take money out of his retirement funds he has built up so that he can support himself when he does retire. The result? About 2 months later, he's got a similar job that pays just as well.

...so...based off real-life experience, which concerning welfare, you probably haven't experienced, I can say that your argument isn't that strong...

and while ur father was one of those people who dont abuse the system.. im sorry to tell you there are many more who abuse it excessivly... most financial experts will tell you anyway you should at all times have atleast 6 months worth of pay in savings to support yourself in the advent of such an occurance.. A strategy which I have lived by and have thus never had to consider unemployment...

Do you think God wants us to oppose sin or accept it? I'm going to bed, I'll check your answer in the morning.
I think (according to the Bible), God wants you to oppose sin, not oppose the private decisions or limit the civil liberties of sinners.

You can only oppose sin by avoiding it in your own personal life. Jesus didn't ask for a theocracy based on his faith. :rolleyes:

The same exact thing happened to my dad back in the 90's. He got layed off, and the job market was bad, so we had to use welfare for a few months while he tried to get a job.

sooooo cause this happend to ur dad.. no one takes advantage of the system ? :rolleyes:

Jesus didn't ask for a theocracy based on his faith.
No, he invented socialism.

I think (according to the Bible), God wants you to oppose sin, not oppose the private decisions or limit the civil liberties of sinners.

You can only oppose sin by avoiding it in your own personal life. Jesus didn't ask for a theocracy based on his faith. :rolleyes:

dont forget to mention.. to judge another is a sin itself... like you said opposition to sin is to resist temptation.. did jesus walk around and tell people how bad they were and that if they didn't turn they were all going to burn in eternal damnation ?

besides.. only on way to heaven... through jesus.. who are any of u to say what that way is for any specific person

dont forget to mention.. to judge another is a sin itself... like you said opposition to sin is to resist temptation.. did jesus walk around and tell people how bad they were and that if they didn't turn they were all going to burn in eternal damnation ?

besides.. only on way to heaven... through jesus.. who are any of u to say what that way is for any specific person
It sounds like you're trying to argue with the person you quoted even though what you wrote sounds like it agrees with his post...

Good question.
They did. It got overturned - Texas sodomy law - Lawrence v Texas - about a year ago.

Here's a question of curiousity, because I honestly don't know...

If Republicans are so by-the-book Christians (so to speak) and believe that people should give to the poor (but on their own accord, not through welfare, and by the way, this can be abused just as easily as welfare...)...does anyone have any stats on how much the average republican donates to charities, etc. And better yet, does anyone have that figure in comparison to how much they donate to the Republican party?

In Quebec/Canada we have 2 levels of "welfare" for unemployed people:

1- Chomage (unemployment benefits): Usually you get a % of your salary until you find a new job, for a MAXIMUM of 1 year.

2- Bien-etre social (social welfare): For people who are crippled, inapt for work, or unable (sometimes unwilling) to find a job. Can last forever.

For "chomage", you pay a contribution as long as you work. So when you lose your job, you get it back as benefits (but actually, you get more than you paid -- it's a collective insurance.) If you leave your job voluntarily, you get nothing; you really have to get fired to get it. Usually you get 55% of your salary. Which is enough, for as long as it goes, to help you find a new job and "bridge" the salaries.

For "bien-etre social" (BS), well... it's social welfare in all its depressing reality. Who's getting it? Some people are crippled or are mentally inapt for work, some people have suffered depression, single mothers, people who experience "heriditary poverty" in their family, lazy slobs, bums, junkies, old people... you get a little of everything in that category. Some who deserve the money, and some who'd deserve a kick in the ass. The BS is really the minimum $ you need to keep yourself afloat.


I've explained these systems just to give an image of the Quebec welfare system. Feel free to compare it with other states or countries, or to criticize it.

I'm pretty sure that in the American welfare system, to file for unemployment, you also have to have actually been fired, and not quit on your own accord...

1- Chomage (unemployment benefits): Usually you get a % of your salary for a maximum of 1 year or until you find a new job.

2- Bien-etre social (social welfare): For people who are crippled, inapt for work, or unable (sometimes unwilling) to find a job. Can last forever.

It sounds French… KILL IT!!! :mp5:

This has been a sarcastic post.

Here's a question of curiousity, because I honestly don't know...

If Republicans are so by-the-book Christians (so to speak) and believe that people should give to the poor (but on their own accord, not through welfare, and by the way, this can be abused just as easily as welfare...)...does anyone have any stats on how much the average republican donates to charities, etc. And better yet, does anyone have that figure in comparison to how much they donate to the Republican party?
I'd love to see those figures too. But, of course, I'm sure if based on the honesty system they'd be outrageously overblown.

It sounds French… KILL IT!!!
:D

Christians are controlled by the Republican Party. The wealthy Republicans have managed to convince millions of middle class Christians that things like welfare are wrong, and that we should close our borders to immigrants. It's almost like a new denomination of Christianity-- Republichristianism. Emphasis on Republi being put before Christ.

Jesus taught us that we should care for the poor, but that seems to be lost on far too many Christians today. They put their five dollars in the plate on Sunday and think it's all good. They believe that all poor people are lazy and deserve to be poor, because that's what the leaders of the Republican Party want them to think. If they would simply stop and read the New Testament, they would see that the Republican Party does not support the biggest values of Christianity; they just make it look like they support Christian values by saying God bless America over and over. They are, in fact, doing a lot of the devil's work for him. Where in the Bible did Jesus say "screw the poor!" or "immigrants are servants of the devil and should be turned away?"

I've had some bad encounters with Republichristians (i.e. Isle of Believers), and I feel that it is a growing problem. More Christians need to sit down and read the Bible.

First paragraph: Jesus did teach us to care for the poor - not the GOVERNMENT! With regards to welfare, Jesus also said give a man a fish, feed him for a meal, teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime. Seems to go against the idea of blindly giving money to anyone without expecting any results. Christians would rather give the money themselves to causes they find worthy, rather than give the money to government and have the government spend it on things that are antithetical to the Christian faith, such as funding for abortion.

As to the immigrant problem, I did not read anywhere, in my studies of the Bible, where Jesus said "Let all foreigners come into your land and support them without limit".

As to the second paragraph: Have you read the Bible? I have, all the way thru 3 times, and many sections as part of Bible studies. Most Christians I know have done the same or more. Just because they do not interpret it the way you do does not mean they are ignorant or haven't read it.

The left is getting more and more ridiculous, but I think that Jesus would care more about the poor than about whether gays can have civil unions or not.

Jesus would urge personal, private donations... which Republicans do more of than Democrats.

Much of the Republican Party's doctrine is based on Christian doctrine, and not the other way around. The Protestant work ethic -- if you don't work, you don't eat -- has been around since the pilgrims came here almost 400 years ago.

Jesus would urge personal, private donations... which Republicans do more of than Democrats.

I'm going to have to ask you to prove that--I call bullshit.

Jesus would urge personal, private donations... which Republicans do more of than Democrats.
Yes, show us some statistics or stop BSing.

Additionally, if you're basing your ideas of how the US Government should be run on what the bible teaches, then I can buy that the Republics are right (in your opinion, based on "government according to Jesus," despite the fact that I seem to remember a verse about Jesus asking whose image was on a coin...), but if you're basing how government should be run on how Jesus says, then show me where Jesus says homosexual marriages should be illegal?

Actually, show me any Bible verse in which Jesus says anything about what the government should do (except the verse I alluded to above)...

The same exact thing happened to my dad back in the 90's. He got layed off, and the job market was bad, so we had to use welfare for a few months while he tried to get a job.

i don't think many people have any problem with someone using a few months' worth of welfare if they've lost their job and are searching for new work

the gripe is with those who don't want to work and have no problem with living on Joe Taxpayer's dime.

No, he invented socialism.

Nowhere did Jesus say to pay taxes to the government and expect them to solve everone's problems. He wanted the individual to do it through their own generosity and commitment to doing good, with the intent of helping others rise up from their situation. Socialism takes a person's money and gives it to someone else, quite often doing nothing to actually solve the problem. Welfare hasn't helped reduce poverty, but rather worsened it and led to a permanent class of welfare dependent citizens who are used for political gain.

Help others help themselves through your own desire to better society, not throwing it away to be squandered through inefficency, impracticabillity, and political motivation.

Matthew 22

19 Show me the coin used for paying the tax." They brought him a denarius, 20 and he asked them, "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?"

21 "Caesar's," they replied.
Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."

22 When they heard this, they were amazed. So they left him and went away.

Matthew 22

19 Show me the coin used for paying the tax." They brought him a denarius, 20 and he asked them, "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?"

21 "Caesar's," they replied.
Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."

22 When they heard this, they were amazed. So they left him and went away.
It means that since God gave us our moral riches, we should give them back to God, as good deeds during our lifetime. Just the way money goes back to the administration that has printed it -- it is only lent to us for good use.

Matthew 22

19 Show me the coin used for paying the tax." They brought him a denarius, 20 and he asked them, "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?"

21 "Caesar's," they replied.
Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."

22 When they heard this, they were amazed. So they left him and went away.

and the point is?

that passage proves nothing but that if taxes are levied on people, said people should pay them... to obey the law.

he did not say that he favored taxes or the redistribution of wealth.

Jesus favored personal charity... that much is certain... but nowhere does he say that robbing peter to pay paul is cool. GIVING to people is fine... a person making a conscious decision to help someone else is what Jesus jonesed for.

Matthew 22

19 Show me the coin used for paying the tax." They brought him a denarius, 20 and he asked them, "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?"
21 "Caesar's," they replied.
Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."
22 When they heard this, they were amazed. So they left him and went away.

Yes, so Christians should be loyal to their government and pay their taxes as requested.

Doing good and helping others is not the government's duty; it is the individual's duty as a follower of God to show their faith and commitment to the way Jesus taught. Thus, it is rendered to God and not the government.

(this, by the way, is why I don't particularly like religious discussions with Christians, because the bible means exactly what it they think it means, which usually is whatever proves them right and everyone else wrong, and there's no room for any other interpretation)

Yes, so Christians should be loyal to their government and pay their taxes as requested.

Doing good and helping others is not the government's duty; it is the individual's duty as a follower of God to show their faith and commitment to the way Jesus taught. Thus, it is rendered to God and not the government.

that is exactly right. good job.

Then why don't Republicans ban Homosexuality instead of Gay Marriage?

In many states, sodomy was (or still is) illegal. In fact the United States Supreme court declared a texas law that made homosexual sodomy illegal was unconstitutional.

No, he invented socialism.
It is for the reason Eichen gave that I always try to avoid giving religious justifications for the enforcement of socialism. If my reasons for socialism depend on religion, then surely that is theocracy?

All sin, be it repression of the poor or homosexuality, is the same in the eyes of God. That being said, I am an avid Christian socialist :D
It's time to vote third-party. :cool:

i don't think many people have any problem with someone using a few months' worth of welfare if they've lost their job and are searching for new work

the gripe is with those who don't want to work and have no problem with living on Joe Taxpayer's dime.
You may be surprised that most of us on the left agree completely with your statement here. We just see the right-wing parties as wanting to abolish the system that temporarily supports people like Ryanania's dad.

Jerry falwell said in my home town newspaper "The annistion star" that christians are who got the republicans into office. He was saying make no mistake about it. I myself am a fiscally conservative independent democrat and I dont care if the ten commandments are up in a building, nor do I care if i see the jewish star. I wish we could just accept each others differences and pull together in the world to solve problems of the whole human race like hunger and disease, but I am a dreamer so... I have no problem with people voting republican, many of my friends (i live in a red state) are republicans, the only thing that bothers me is if people vote and dont know what the party there voting for stands for. I also dont like the idea of people telling other people how to vote. Dont get me wrong I dont mean campaigning, I mean people tell other people "now vote this and nothing else". I myself have no problem voting republican, I may be voting republican for my state's governor, I dont know yet. Its all a matter of if he runs again and if he has the best ideas and intentions, the fact he is a republican means nothing to me within itself. I worry about the man not the party.

Those of you who are saying that God wouldn't want the government to be charitable for us... Doesn't God advocate a government that does His will? If that is a true statement, then God supports government welfare.

The republicans don't want to "screw the poor". They just want to let the people who are best at helping the poor (the churches) do their job. The government should enable the private sector and the religious sector take the lead.

The republicans don't want to "screw the poor". They just want to let the people who are best at helping the poor (the churches) do their job. The government should enable the private sector and the religious sector take the lead.They are enabled to help, but Churches don't have enough money to help on the scale that the government can, and corporations will never give up enough of their profits willingly to help the unfortunate.

They are enabled to help, but Churches don't have enough money to help on the scale that the government can, and corporations will never give up enough of their profits willingly to help the unfortunate.

If enough pressure from society existed, and if they did not have to pay so much taxes, corporations would. In fact, they already do. Also, if people didn’t have to pay such high taxes, they would be more willing to tithe that ten percent.

If enough pressure from society existed, and if they did not have to pay so much taxes, corporations would. In fact, they already do. Also, if people didn’t have to pay such high taxes, they would be more willing to tithe that ten percent.Ah, but the government makes sure that people are giving to the poor. That way, it eliminates the greed factor. Also, the government knows how much money it needs to tax to give to the poor, whereas the various churches don't have that ablity.

Let's say the government had a flat tax rate of 5% or something. People would be taxed a lot less, but do you think that most people would give that extra money to the poor, or buy Cadillacs with it?

here's a nifty idea:

screw the bible, all its ever done is make people suffer

The government is not justified in banning gay marriage, it is not justified to even be a part of marriage in the first place IMHO.

Hence the reason I was neither for or against civil unions in NZ; although I am gay, the fact remains that the government SHOULDN'T give preferential treatment to married couples of single or non-married couples.

The government should be small, compact and provide on the basic services; whether no not someone is married, shouldn't even enter into the equation when providing services.

Not to long ago, my dad lost his job. He collected unemployment every week that he was unemployed so that he would not have to take money out of his retirement funds he has built up so that he can support himself when he does retire. The result? About 2 months later, he's got a similar job that pays just as well.

...so...based off real-life experience, which concerning welfare, you probably haven't experienced, I can say that your argument isn't that strong...


Unemployment benefits are not welfare. When you work you pay into the system and your former employer helps pay part of said benefits.

T_T why does this ignorance never stop.. homosexuality is not a sin.. pre-marital sex is a sin.. get it right.. homosexuals are no more sinful then the heterosexuals who forincate out of wedlock.... he without sin first cast the first stone isn't it ?

If your going to be religious.. get it right as you otherwise make us all look bad



Leviticus and Romans ;)

Christians are controlled by the Republican Party. The wealthy Republicans have managed to convince millions of middle class Christians that things like welfare are wrong, and that we should close our borders to immigrants. It's almost like a new denomination of Christianity-- Republichristianism. Emphasis on Republi being put before Christ.

Jesus taught us that we should care for the poor, but that seems to be lost on far too many Christians today. They put their five dollars in the plate on Sunday and think it's all good. They believe that all poor people are lazy and deserve to be poor, because that's what the leaders of the Republican Party want them to think. If they would simply stop and read the New Testament, they would see that the Republican Party does not support the biggest values of Christianity; they just make it look like they support Christian values by saying God bless America over and over. They are, in fact, doing a lot of the devil's work for him. Where in the Bible did Jesus say "screw the poor!" or "immigrants are servants of the devil and should be turned away?"

However, the Democrats aren't helping. They are just alienating themselves from the Christians of this country by attacking things like the Ten Commandments in a court house. They're driving the Christians to the Republicans. I understand trying to keep seperation of church and state, but they take it too far. Having the Ten Commandments artwork in the court house is no different from having a statue of some Greek mythological figure, yet the Democrats decided to make a big deal out of it. If they would simply be a little more Christian friendly, we'd probably have a Democrat in office right now.

I've had some bad encounters with Republichristians (i.e. Isle of Believers), and I feel that it is a growing problem. More Christians need to sit down and read the Bible.
I absolutely agree. I'm a Christian and a communist - and it was my Christian belief that originally got me interested in communism. The earliest recorded example of a communist society can be found in the Bible:

"And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all [men], as every man had need."
- Acts 2:44-45

I'm not saying all Christians should be communists, but they should, at least, be left-wing on economic issues. It is simply not consistent to be a Christian and support capitalism. Some justify it by saying that people's freedom of choice between good and evil should be held absolute, and you should be free to sin if you want to.

Well, by the same logic, murder should be legalized. After all, murder is a sin, and, by making murder illegal, the government is taking away your freedom to sin! :rolleyes:

The fact is that every law regulates morality in some way. If you want the government to play no part in upholding a certain kind of ethics, you should abolish ALL laws altogether.