NationStates Jolt Archive

I am sure some of this is already going on but I think it should be re-thought and stepped up on a grand scale in as many directions as we can muster.

What could be better than terrorist groups fighting each other (Getting rid of them of course but that's not really an option).

Anyone got any ideas on how to carry somethign like this out?

Recruit non-muslims who are very familiar with the cultures in the backward lands where terror is spawned. For example, coptic christians. Give their families US citizenship, good jobs, scholarships to university, and protection. In return some of the menfolk pretend to be disaffected muslims seeking membership in terror organizations.

Use the new agents to spread distrust and disinformation to the terrorists while collecting intelligence. When it's about time to pull a guy out have him assasinate a high-level terrorist or set a time bomb in an appartment where some terrorists are sleeping.

You gain intel, spread fear and false info to the enemy, and you use terrorism directly against the terrorists.

great ideas

Or we could even announce publicly that we have a huge misinformation campaign going on and give details of ways in which it will be carried out that are false and just have them looking for shit that isn't even goign to happen while we pursue other ideas at the same time. Have them all confused and not knowing what is real and what isn't.

Recruit non-muslims who are very familiar with the cultures in the backward lands where terror is spawned. For example, coptic christians.
Christian minorities have a tradition of keeping a low profile, and glide through the conflicts. This is true in Egypt, Eastern Africa, Iraq, Lebanon (well... until the 20th century), Iran, ...

They wouldn't want to engage in anything that would endanger their family, their community members, or the future of their community.

The best thing to do is to simply recruit Muslims who believe in a secular society. You can always find moderates, in any society. Unless you pretend that we can't trust ANY Muslim, even moderate ones???

Anyway, how would you infiltrate a Muslim group with a non-Muslim. Yeah right, with a Coptic man who happens to have a "middle-eastern look"? He'd be killed in the hour.

Christian minorities have a tradition of keeping a low profile, and glide through the conflicts. This is true in Egypt, Eastern Africa, Iraq, Lebanon (well... until the 20th century), Iran, ...

They wouldn't want to engage in anything that would endanger their family, their community members, or the future of their community.

The best thing to do is to simply recruit Muslims who believe in a secular society. You can always find moderates, in any society. Unless you pretend that we can't trust ANY Muslim, even moderate ones???

Anyway, how would you infiltrate a Muslim group with a non-Muslim. Yeah right, with a Coptic man who happens to have a "middle-eastern look"? He'd be killed in the hour.
Not just a "middle-eastern look". Fluency in arabic, intimate knowledge of the culture, and training in radical islam provided by the CIA through confiscated books, audio recordings and video.

Not just a "middle-eastern look". Fluency in arabic, intimate knowledge of the culture, and training in radical islam provided by the CIA through confiscated books, audio recordings and video.
A "real-life" moderate Muslim would require less training, and is less likely to get caught. It requires a LOT of hard work to learn Islam. Don't forget that in extremist Islamic groups, they would view as suspiscious anybody who can't recite the Koran or perform religious duties with a near perfection level.

Do you have such a distaste in Muslims, that you wouldn't trust a CIA-trained Muslim infiltrator?

A "real-life" moderate Muslim would require less training, and is less likely to get caught. It requires a LOT of hard work to learn Islam. Don't forget that in extremist Islamic groups, they would view as suspiscious anybody who can't recite the Koran or perform religious duties with a near perfection level.

Do you have such a distaste in Muslims, that you wouldn't trust a CIA-trained Muslim infiltrator?
I only doubt that we can find a muslim who'll take the job. People who've been treated as second class citizens or worse by muslims might be more motivated to work for us.

What about reprogramming captured terrorists with hypnosis and whatever other reprogramming methods might be available, maybe not to fight for us but just mess him up enough to work against his own group of people - possibly even against his own knowledge.

What about reprogramming captured terrorists with hypnosis and whatever other reprogramming methods might be available, maybe not to fight for us but just mess him up enough to work against his own group of people - possibly even against his own knowledge.
I don't know if such a thing has ever been done or whether it even can be done reliably enough to make it worth the time and effort.

I only doubt that we can find a muslim who'll take the job. People who've been treated as second class citizens or worse by muslims might be more motivated to work for us.
You certainly have a point here.
Even though I wonder how these Christian minorities would weight the options. We'd get many polite "no". These people are really, really low-profile.

But hey, since the USSR was able to recruit American spies (most of them who were willing to work against the USA), then anything can be done!!! You just have to find a Muslim who holds a permanent grudge against extremists.

Or some "ideologist" could carefully start a new militant anti-extremist Muslim ideology, and use this new ideological movement to recruit agents. All you need is a Muslim who'd write a radically modern book on Islam, and launch that thing. Reformation!!!!!

well you can hypnotize someone to forget a number (like 7) when they are awake and ask them to count to 10 and they will completely skip over the number. Hold 7 fingers up and ask them how many there are and they cant tell you! :eek: Hilarity to say the least. Now we just hypnotize them to misinterpret what they are told... like when they are told to suicide bomb an american bus they hear an order to suicide bomb the alqueda leader

well you can hypnotize someone to forget a number (like 7) when they are awake and ask them to count to 10 and they will completely skip over the number. Hold 7 fingers up and ask them how many there are and they cant tell you! :eek: Hilarity to say the least. Now we just hypnotize them to misinterpret what they are told... like when they are told to suicide bomb an american bus they hear an order to suicide bomb the alqueda leader
1) Supposedly not everyone can be hypnotized. Only a small percentage of people are good candidates. Only a small percentage of people are terrorists. Only a small percentage of terrorists get caught rather than killed. You're counting on capturing a person who's existance is one in several million. Not good odds.

2) I recently saw a demonstration of hypnotism. Most of the people who weren't rejected as bad subjects just seemed to be playing along as a joke or to make the hypnotist happy.

1) Supposedly not everyone can be hypnotized. Only a small percentage of people are good candidates. Only a small percentage of people are terrorists. Only a small percentage of terrorists get caught rather than killed. You're counting on capturing a person who's existance is one in several million. Not good odds.

2) I recently saw a demonstration of hypnotism. Most of the people who weren't rejected as bad subjects just seemed to be playing along as a joke or to make the hypnotist happy.


Yeah - also I hear you can't be hypnotized unless you want to be. I bet using sound, lights and drugs that theres a way around that though. Maybe is all I'm saying. It's worth a shot to try to reprogram a terrorist or two anyway. Say we caught 500 terrorists - if only 10 percent of people can be hypnotized then thats 50 chances we got.

I;ve seen like 3 hypno-shows and there was a couple people I thought were also just playing along but most I have no doubt were fully hypnotized.

(off topic: there was this one guy who was told he couldnt speak english but had his own alien language - he spit out some really funny words when asked questions and he was getting frustrated at not being able to speak english - this chick was then told that she could speak his language and translate to and from English for this guy - it seemed liek she was really translating and the guy seemed pleased at her translations. So funny.)

Recruit non-muslims who are very familiar with the cultures in the backward lands where terror is spawned.



<snip>

We tried that once and actually infiltrated Osama's organization:

http://www.2dorks.com/faxes/fax-osama.html

It's a joke, don't look at it if you're being serious.

Seriously, I think infiltrating this community is difficult because it's such a closed society. Kinda like infiltrating the mob.

But I bet we're working on it. I have no problem with killing terrorists wherever we find them.

<snip>

We tried that once and actually infiltrated Osama's organization:

http://www.2dorks.com/faxes/fax-osama.html

It's a joke, don't look at it if you're being serious.

Seriously, I think infiltrating this community is difficult because it's such a closed society. Kinda like infiltrating the mob.

But I bet we're working on it. I have no problem with killing terrorists wherever we find them.


haha too fkn funny


Memo from Osama Bin Laden
To: Cavemates
From: Bin Laden, Osama

Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 8:17 AM

Subject: The Cave

Hi guys. We've all been putting in long hours in this conflict but we've finally come together as a group and I love that. Big thanks to Omar for putting up the poster that says "There is no I in team" as well as the one that says "Hang In There, Baby." That cat is hilarious. However, while we are fighting a jihad, we can't forget to take care of the cave. And frankly I have a few concerns.

First of all, while it's good to be concerned about cruise missiles, we should be even more concerned about the scorpions in our cave. Hey, you don't want to be stung and neither do I, so we need to sweep the cave daily.

I've posted a sign-up sheet near the main cave opening.

Second, it's not often I make a video address but when I do, I'm trying to scare the most powerful country on earth, okay? That means that while we're taping, please do not ride your razor scooter in the background. Just while we're taping. Thanks.

Third point, and this is a touchy one. As you know, by edict, we're not supposed to shave our beards. But I need everyone to just think hygiene, especially after mealtime. We're all in this together.

Fourth: food. I bought a box of Cheez-Its recently, clearly wrote "Osama" on the front, and put it on the top shelf. Today, my Cheez-Its were gone. Consideration. That's all I'm saying.

Finally, we've heard that there may be American soldiers in disguise trying to infiltrate our ranks. I want to set up patrols to look for them. First patrol will be Omar, Muhammed, Abdul, Akbar, and the new guy Richard.

Love you lots. Osama B.

<snip>

We tried that once and actually infiltrated Osama's organization:

http://www.2dorks.com/faxes/fax-osama.html

It's a joke, don't look at it if you're being serious.

Seriously, I think infiltrating this community is difficult because it's such a closed society. Kinda like infiltrating the mob.

But I bet we're working on it. I have no problem with killing terrorists wherever we find them.
That was funny. "Richard" LOL :D

I think I was supposed to capitalize all the letters in COINTELPRO huh?

We don't hear anything about their intelligence efforts against these guys but I think they should make some fake press releases to throw terror groups off track or put them on gaurd where they need not be. Although I think I did hear something about how they would let out information and look for specific reactions.

http://www.trans.ci.portland.or.us/TrafficCalming/images/pictures/bumplegend1.JPG

What could be better than terrorist groups fighting each other (Getting rid of them of course but that's not really an option).

Yeah, what could possibly be better than two or more factions of paramilitaries causing death, destruction and inevitable civilian collateral damage. Hey, it worked out so well in Northern Ireland when the Special Branch and MI5 started leaking information to the Loyalists...


Aside from which: a fucking 86k image as a bump? Somewhat excessive, no?

Anyone got any ideas on how to carry somethign like this out?

in addition to this rarely working out well for anybody, it'd be pretty tough in this case. only slightly easier than inflitrating the earth liberation front, in that these guy's autonomous cells have at least some centralized activities, like the training camps and such, and some coordinated plans. but al-q isn't exactly an organization with a real command hierarchy or anything.

A "real-life" moderate Muslim would require less training, and is less likely to get caught. It requires a LOT of hard work to learn Islam. Don't forget that in extremist Islamic groups, they would view as suspiscious anybody who can't recite the Koran or perform religious duties with a near perfection level.

Do you have such a distaste in Muslims, that you wouldn't trust a CIA-trained Muslim infiltrator?

we could train muslims to infiltrate...but...just like they condemn the atrocities(publicly) but silently cheer or even dance in the street like in palistine after the world trade center shit.

cant trust them either..

if they run they are vc...if they stand still..they are a well trained vc :sniper:

Since the terrorist attacks in public places are increasing - and then the attacks on mosques in Pakistan - there may be more grieving family members who would turn to get revenge.

On another note, the civilian attacks are a terrifying thing to the average person so I doubt that many of them are hoping for the terrorists to take power. The harming of civilians is unifying liberals and conservatives in the west against them. I think the terrorists are harming their cause, actually.

My view is that the Muslim faith should threaten to declare any terrorist apostate - they would fear that and possibly cease, and their entire community cooperate in turning them in to authorities. Terrorists don't operate in a vacuum - other people know who they are and some actually help.

We need better relations with the Muslim community, and more effort spent trying to kill the terrorist scum where they sleep.

Re: Reprogramming the terrorists. Check out this link (good sized download): http://www.kontrabandcontent.co.uk/1/graphics/movies/Real_zombies1.wmv

Perhaps using something like this aobve we could acheive some sort of vague goal :p - it might even be good for interragation if we could hypnotize them without them knowing it.

http://www.channel4.com/entertainment/tv/microsites/M/mindcontrol/video/

"This is real, Darren Brown has incredible talent, your mind is like plasticine to him. It's those that think he could never do something like that to them are the easiest to fuck with. We are all just programed robots, how we walk, how we talk, the clothes we wear, our beliefs ect ect, it's all just input we've heard and seen from a baby on. Darren is a very clever psychologist, he can tap into your brain and rewire how you think in the blink of an eye. I've seen a lot of his work including this (lots was cut out here so you don't see fully how it was done), this is real and is nothing to some of the stuff he's done.

From his website:
"Derren Brown is a unique force in the world of illusion - he can seemingly predict and control human behaviour.

He doesn't claim to be a mind-reader, instead he describes his craft as a mixture of magic, suggestion, psychology, misdirection and showmanship.

Whatever you choose to call it, his unparalleled performances amaze and unsettle all those who watch him. This is a powerful and provocative form of entertainment, unlikely to be imitated for a long while."

http://www.derrenbrown.co.uk/ "

Yeah, what could possibly be better than two or more factions of paramilitaries causing death, destruction and inevitable civilian collateral damage. Hey, it worked out so well in Northern Ireland when the Special Branch and MI5 started leaking information to the Loyalists...

What are you on about?



Aside from which: a fucking 86k image as a bump? Somewhat excessive, no?

Yes :D

in addition to this rarely working out well for anybody, it'd be pretty tough in this case. only slightly easier than inflitrating the earth liberation front, in that these guy's autonomous cells have at least some centralized activities, like the training camps and such, and some coordinated plans. but al-q isn't exactly an organization with a real command hierarchy or anything.


We get information about different cells then spread misinformation to those different cells about how the other cells are working with the infidels or whatever. Make it looke like one sent an email to the other that says "Allah doesn't love you as much as he loves me" and junk ;)

What are you on about?

An example from recent history of your 'terrorist groups fighting each other'. Northern Ireland? 3000 dead? Carbombs? Shootings? Punishment beatings? A society riven by factional infighting? Ring any bells? Ring any bells?

EDIT: Aside from which, wasn't it exactly the kind of operation you are suggesting - encouraging and supplying militias and irregular soldiers - which gave rise to Al Qaeda in the first place?

Re: Reprogramming the terrorists.

The way to freedom is through mind control?

An example from recent history of your 'terrorist groups fighting each other'. Northern Ireland? 3000 dead? Carbombs? Shootings? Punishment beatings? A society riven by factional infighting? Ring any bells? Ring any bells?


No I don't know about that. But it still seems that they are different types of organizations. Besides we dont have to play it the same way as the MI5 and whomever and the AQ cells aren't necessarily going to react the same way. Besides I am tryign to offer an alternative to bombing a whole country and putting the bulk of our military men and women in harms way.

I am all for using as many peaceful solutions as we can but "knee-jerk reactionaries" aren't about doing whats most effective. Of course I think we need to change foreign policy big time as that is one area that can at least reduce terrorism somewhat.

What would you have those who want to stop terrorism do? I am merely offering a suggestion to partly address the problem in a less bloody way than is currently going on in the name of the war on terrorism.

Aside from which, wasn't it exactly the kind of operation you are suggesting - encouraging and supplying militias and irregular soldiers - which gave rise to Al Qaeda in the first place?


Nope just supplying them with misdirection and misinformation to keep them runnign around like chickens with their heads cut off because they don't know what is true or false... friend or enemy

No I don't know about that.

You don't know about Northern Ireland?

Besides I am tryign to offer an alternative to bombing a whole country and putting the bulk of our military men and women in harms way.

By encouraging factionalism and internecine strife? Thus putting entire civilian populations in harms way instead?


What would you have those who want to stop terrorism do? I am merely offering a suggestion to partly address the problem in a less bloody way than is currently going on in the name of the war on terrorism.

I'm firmly of the 'speak softly' rather than the 'carry a big stick' brigade. Identify moderates within the movements or those moderates outside who give support to it and engage them in dialogue: see if their concerns have any rooting in reality and whether there is any way to address them. If so, then you have managed to isolate the hardliners somewhat.

The way to freedom is through mind control?


No but mind control is possibly a way to fight terrorism if used on the right people (dangerous proven terrorists that can aid us against their will). Are you sayign that I am suggesting mind control for the entire world? Like I said I am merely offering up ideas. I welcome your ideas even though you do seem sorta hostile and are blowing what I am saying way out of proportion. YOu dont belive in any kind of tinkering with the terrorist ways?

You don't know about Northern Ireland?

Sure I've heard of Northern Ireland, but I don't know it's entire history.


By encouraging factionalism and internecine strife? Thus putting entire civilian populations in harms way instead?


internecine is a cool word let me look that up real quick. ok back. sorry to keep you waiting. Yes by encouraging them to fight each other to a bloody death, but I don't see it putting entire civilian populations in harms way.


I'm firmly of the 'speak softly' rather than the 'carry a big stick' brigade. Identify moderates within the movements or those moderates outside who give support to it and engage them in dialogue: see if their concerns have any rooting in reality and whether there is any way to address them. If so, then you have managed to isolate the hardliners somewhat.

I think we should do as much diplomacy as we can for sure. Isolating the hardliners arent going to make them go away anyhow.

Sure I've heard of Northern Ireland, but I don't know it's entire history.

...

Yes by encouraging them to fight each other to a bloody death, but I don't see it putting entire civilian populations in harms way.

You might just want to do some research on inter-paramilitary conflict in Northern Ireland if you really believe such a conflict can happen without endangering civilian populations.

You might just want to do some research on inter-paramilitary conflict in Northern Ireland if you really believe such a conflict can happen without endangering civilian populations.

I shall, thanks for the suggestion. Still it may put people at risk, but I'm sure it will be less people than all out war puts at risk (which I know you aren't suggesting, I would rather see effort put into something like this than another invasion though. Seems like this will give our beloved Bush Administration another chance to link terrorism to someone else they want to bomb and replace).