NationStates Jolt Archive

Heres someones opinion on America..
-
<Person1> americans think the rest of the world celebrates 4th of july with them
<Person2> who said that?
<Person1> and pete said that, and other people on irc
<Person2> dont let 1 american account for every american
<Person1> I know lots of americans
<Person1> all americans are stupid
-
1) Do agree with Person1? Why?
2) Do you think all Americans are like that?
3) Why do so many people hate the USA?
4) Whats your opinion on USA and Americans in general?
5) What could USA do to change your mind? (if possible)

Heres someones opinion on America..
-
<Person1> americans think the rest of the world celebrates 4th of july with them
<Person2> who said that?
<Person1> and pete said that, and other people on irc
<Person2> dont let 1 american account for every american
<Person1> I know lots of americans
<Person1> all americans are stupid
-
1) Do agree with Person1? Why?
2) Do you think all Americans are like that?
3) Why do so many people hate the USA?
4) Whats your opinion on USA and Americans in general?
5) What could USA do to change your mind? (if possible)
(1) I don't agree with the way he stated it.
(2) No.
(3) America is easy to hate. As a country, we are arrogant, ignorant, and self-centered. We claim to be a democratic republic when we are in actuality a theocracy. We get more bent out of shape than nessecary for negative views towards our country, which makes us fun to pick on. We think we have the most social and politcal freedoms of any other country. We think we are the best country.
Note: I'm generalizing here, and I realize that not all Americans are the same, obviously, as I am one! ;)
(4) I think you've just read it.
(5) I doubt it's possible my mind could be changed on this subject.

EDIT: I don't appreciate you changing the questions on me.

hasn't this topic in general been beaten to death on here for the last zillion years?

Now I can handle some critism as an American. But alot of what I see as I travel the world is ignorance and basic misunderstanding of America in general. Europeans especially say Americans dont understand anyone else. I personally would make the arguement going the other way. In Africa and the middle east America is revered and hated at the same time. Its great if there uncle or cousin is sending money home. But America is also the cause of all there problems. It seems that this is fueled by alot of Europeans from what I gather. Alot of hatred is propagated by non-democratic regimes that see America as a threat to them. Therefore they organize demonstrations and coin phrases such as the Great Satan. There are some Americans that fuel this too. They are typically liberal and anti-American government. Also alot has to do with pure jealousy and hatred these people harbor in themselves. Some always want to blame someone else for there ill fortune. America is an easy scapegoat. I have told foreigners that are way off base about America that they need to look in the mirror and then they may realise where the real problem lies. Just my opinion from an somewhat travelled American. Having to defend our way of life and government in several continents.

Don't the British celebrate something? I don't know British history as well as American history, but I think they celebrate losing something big. Something extremely significant to them. Wish I could remember...

Don't the British celebrate something? I don't know British history as well as American history, but I think they celebrate losing something big. Something extremely significant to them. Wish I could remember...
What? India?

You know, as an American who hates being an American just because America is so hate-able, it still offends me when people lump the America-hating all into one heap. I'm probably considerably more world-oriented than a large amount of "characteristic" Americans, so do I get pissed off when they just jump to the "stupid American" argument? HELL YES! However....is it because of patriotism and blind loyalty to a government I myself recognize to be absolutely foolish? HELL NO!

Get it straight, non-Americans......there are those of us here that don't have our heads up our asses (and most of 'em are liberal activists and labeled as "extremists" by the very government we're trying to reform....)

Don't the British celebrate something? I don't know British history as well as American history, but I think they celebrate losing something big. Something extremely significant to them. Wish I could remember...

I always liked Bonfire day. Drinking by the fire with a load of friends is always a good time.

america is great other countrys worry about our state of matter more than thereselvs

I guess some people go as far as to think that Michael Moore hates America because he criticizes. And oh, he write "Stupid White Men" too.

Hey, read the guy's books... it's sarcasm. It exposes in our faces how much we need to get better as people and as countries (YES some of these critics DO apply to Canada as well, so I'll say "we".) The guy's a foul-mouthed, fame-fat patriot, but a patriot still.

What? India?
Oh wait...July 4th marks the beginning of the end of the British empire, right?

There are some Americans that fuel this too. They are typically liberal and anti-American government. Also alot has to do with pure jealousy and hatred these people harbor in themselves. Some always want to blame someone else for there ill fortune. America is an easy scapegoat. I have told foreigners that are way off base about America that they need to look in the mirror and then they may realise where the real problem lies. Just my opinion from an somewhat travelled American.

This is another thing that, facing this from other Americans (this is where I'll KINDLY refrain from calling you a conservative {insert four-letter word here}head). First of all, being liberal is not being anti-government. I under-appreciate this current system because I realize it could be better. I push for the better, I'm actively politically involved, I'm HOPING to see a better government....if anything, I'm supporting the government as much as possible. Pure jealousy? Hatred? ILL FORTUNE?! Where the hell did any of that come from?

And it's not like you're the only "travelled American" on this forum, don't presume to speak for that entire crowd.

Simonist'](this is where I'll KINDLY refrain from calling you a conservative {insert four-letter word here}head)
You know...pointing out that you're not acting like a child kind of defeats the purpose...

1) No
2) No
3) Because of our lack of consideration for the rest of the world (its people and/or resorces.
4) The person in school that has alot of money and therefor thinks they are cool, but they are not as cool as they think.
5) Fix the election system so that big buisness doesn't put in Presidents, so that good people will actually be on the ballet instead of what we are seeing.

Oh yea! Yet another bash the americans thread!

1) No. Basically he is a twit. I don't know of any american that thinks the rest of the world celibrates the 4th.
2) No.
3) Probably most because we re-elected the shrub co.
4) Can't tell you. Might end up on a traitor list. ;)
5) Oh that will probably take awhile. Theocracies take time to eliminate :p

1) Do agree with Person1? Why? Well its the Americanization that makes other countries believe that.
2) Do you think all Americans are like that? Most but not all.
3) Why do so many people hate the USA?Because they have ruined the world In every way shape and form.
4) Whats your opinion on USA and Americans in general?Arrogant, idiotic, warloving Consumerist bast@rds. (i would write more but I cant find many other bad words in the thersaurus
5) What could USA do to change your mind? No!

You know...pointing out that you're not acting like a child kind of defeats the purpose...
I wasn't pointing out what I wasn't doing...I was pointing out what many others would do. Obviously you've not run into me much before, if you can't tell the difference -- rarely, if ever, do I resort to name-calling on a direct level without being personally attacked first. That was intended to be more of a comment to the level that many others stoop to. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

There are lots of people who celebrate every day.

Additionally, I would not be suprised if there were non-Americans who celebrated July 4th, America's Independence Day, but not as America's Independence Day. Rather, as the Birth of Modern Democracy.

America's independence from Britain truly shocked the entire world, and ever from that first day as a state independent from THE British Empire, America served as inspiration, and in many cases, supported other British territories when they were ready to claim their own independence.

Since that time in the 19th century however, America hasn't done so well...

But nonetheless, no matter how much you have Present-Day America, there is absolutely NO denying the fact that July 4th is the greatest day to celebrate the American Spirit that gave birth to Modern Democracy.

Simonist']I wasn't pointing out what I wasn't doing...I was pointing out what many others would do. Obviously you've not run into me much before, if you can't tell the difference -- rarely, if ever, do I resort to name-calling on a direct level without being personally attacked first. That was intended to be more of a comment to the level that many others stoop to. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough.
Regardless, that was a delibirate attempt to garner more respect than the post deserved. It was childish. You could've just not used any sort of language like that...and left it at that...and by not pissing off anyone, you've already earned the respect, and don't have to remind them that you're being nice.

Regardless, that was a delibirate attempt to garner more respect than the post deserved. It was childish. You could've just not used any sort of language like that...and left it at that...and by not pissing off anyone, you've already earned the respect, and don't have to remind them that you're being nice.
Once again -- I wasn't trying to point out my niceness. I was actually being un-nice. Stop it stop it stop it, lalalalala, is that childish enough? Am I proving your point now? Glad I could help. Thanks for calling me out on something I wasn't really doing, that's something I love most about people so easily mis-interpreting TEXT and then insisting they know what I meant better than I did. No, really, I liked it.

I don't need to garner respect. Those who've talked with me before respect me for their own reasons. Those who don't respect me, don't bother me. If they choose not to, then it's their business. I don't know them personally, I don't talk to them out of the forum (unlike many others I've talked to here), so what should I care whether or not they view me as respectable?

I just don't understand why childishly pointing out the "niceness" of your post is necessary?

Next, we'll see articles in newspapers that parenthetically notate the extent of the bias...

I just don't understand why childishly pointing out the "niceness" of your post is necessary?

Next, we'll see articles in newspapers that parenthetically notate the extent of the bias...
You know what, this is it. The last to you, because it appears to me that you're trying not to understand what I'm telling you. I wasn't pointing out the "nice" part to the person I was replying to, as they hadn't done anything individually wrong (though I did take a tinge of offence to their tone). Second of all, the "nice" part was meant to be ironic, which is something that apparently went over your head, or maybe something you chose to pretend wasn't there.

Now if you have anything else to say on this, TG me so I can tell you openly what I really think you're trying to do. Otherwise, let's just drop it.

Simonist']Second of all, the "nice" part was meant to be ironic, which is something that apparently went over your head, or maybe something you chose to pretend wasn't there.

Or maybe I didn't read any other part of your post (nor the post you were responding to) because there are tons of posts on this board and I choose to skim and comment on stuff that sticks out. Regardless of how it was meant, or what context it was in, people pointing out their own positive behaviours in a sort of bragging manner (meant ironically or not) is one of my biggest pet peaves, as I have never found any purpose to it...ever. And I've dealt with a couple of people who do this OFTEN.

Or maybe I didn't read any other part of your post (nor the post you were responding to) because there are tons of posts on this board and I choose to skim and comment on stuff that sticks out. Regardless of how it was meant, or what context it was in, people pointing out their own positive behaviours in a sort of bragging manner (meant ironically or not) is one of my biggest pet peaves, as I have never found any purpose to it...ever. And I've dealt with a couple of people who do this OFTEN.
Well sorry, I didn't know you didn't read the whole thing. I personally am not one of the "skimmers" and I guess I assumed that most people don't call folks out unless they've read the whole thing. Nonetheless, I still think that it's wrong of you to bash me because of your pet PEEVEs, and as spelling is one of mine I feel entitled now to do that :D

Simonist']Well sorry, I didn't know you didn't read the whole thing. I personally am not one of the "skimmers" and I guess I assumed that most people don't call folks out unless they've read the whole thing. Nonetheless, I still think that it's wrong of you to bash me because of your pet PEEVEs, and as spelling is one of mine I feel entitled now to do that :D

Regadles ov wether id iz a peave ov myne oar nott duz nott chanj de phakt dat id stil servs no purpus

Regadles ov wether id iz a peave ov myne oar nott duz nott chanj de phakt dat id stil servs no purpus
I'm completely unsure of most of this line, so from this point forward I'm abandoning this thread, as I've found well-spelled and more intelligent exchange on a few others, and going on more than four at a time is a bit much

Simonist']I'm completely unsure of most of this line, so from this point forward I'm abandoning this thread, as I've found well-spelled and more intelligent exchange on a few others, and going on more than four at a time is a bit much
Read it phonetically...it's not that difficult.

There are lots of people who celebrate every day.

Additionally, I would not be suprised if there were non-Americans who celebrated July 4th, America's Independence Day, but not as America's Independence Day. Rather, as the Birth of Modern Democracy.

America's independence from Britain truly shocked the entire world, and ever from that first day as a state independent from THE British Empire, America served as inspiration, and in many cases, supported other British territories when they were ready to claim their own independence.

Since that time in the 19th century however, America hasn't done so well...

But nonetheless, no matter how much you have Present-Day America, there is absolutely NO denying the fact that July 4th is the greatest day to celebrate the American Spirit that gave birth to Modern Democracy.


Eh, I really would like to see what people think about the opinions I expressed here.

1) Do agree with Person1? Why?
2) Do you think all Americans are like that?
3) Why do so many people hate the USA?
4) Whats your opinion on USA and Americans in general?
5) What could USA do to change your mind? (if possible)

1) No, because he's just plain wrong. I know at least one intelligent American, ergo the statement is incorrect.
2) Absolutely not. I've yet to meet one who thinks anyone else celebrates the 4th. But an American who desires to privately recognize the 4th in another country is, of course being an idiot.
3) Scapegoating and a failure to understand politics, economics, and history.
4) The USA as a whole is pretty neat. Americans in generally are the best people I've ever met.
5) If it started doing actual imperialist things like conquering other nations and KEEPING them, and if capitalism stops working really well, and if Americans stop being really, really nice and hospitable to me, I reckon that might start the ball rolling.

Note: Anyone who claims the US could not change their mind does not, by default, have a rational grievance. If the USA can do nothing to change your opinion, your opinion is not based on things the US has done wrong, but simply anti-Americanism.

4) Whats your opinion on USA and Americans in general?Arrogant, idiotic, warloving Consumerist bast@rds. (i would write more but I cant find many other bad words in the thersaurus

You've got a shitty thesaurus.

Edit: Unblogged, I see what you're saying there, and despite BEING British, I agree fairly strongly.

... damn upstart colonists. xD

Heres someones opinion on America..
-
<Person1> americans think the rest of the world celebrates 4th of july with them
<Person2> who said that?
<Person1> and pete said that, and other people on irc
<Person2> dont let 1 american account for every american
<Person1> I know lots of americans
<Person1> all americans are stupid
-
1) Do agree with Person1? Why?
2) Do you think all Americans are like that?
3) Why do so many people hate the USA?
4) Whats your opinion on USA and Americans in general?
5) What could USA do to change your mind? (if possible)
1) No. Because I've met a few Americans who're well informed and not mad.
2) Like what? Ignorant tossers or normal informed people? Oh well, hardly matters. I think there's a majority of the former sort, but the same thing's true where I am. Stupidity isn't inherently American.
3) Because of your forign policy. That, and the fact that most people anywhere are tossers. Some just hate you because they think it's what they should.
4) I loathe more or less everything you stand for. I can't stand the majority of the Americans I've met and US polls paints a grim picture of the rest. But like I said, stupidity isn't US-only. I'd say the exact same think about any random EU country.
5) Where do I mail the book? Honestly it's much too long a list. I suppose going back to an isolationist policy, abolishing corporate laws, getting rid of what passes as a representative democracy, implimenting a sustainable economy, respecting international law and working towards social equality would go a long way to improve their image in my mind.

I disagree with almost everything the US does and stands for. I respect their right not to share my values, but I cannot respect them enforcing their crap on others. Trouble is, it's impossible to be the kind of thing the US wants to be without imposing it on others. And as such, there's no real chance that I'll ever stop hating the country with all my heart. But stop your emperialism & start working towards a sustainable society and we can talk about it. I don't have to like you to respect you.

I disagree with almost everything the US does and stands for. I respect their right not to share my values, but I cannot respect them enforcing their crap on others. Trouble is, it's impossible to be the kind of thing the US wants to be without imposing it on others. And as such, there's no real chance that I'll ever stop hating the country with all my heart. But stop your emperialism & start working towards a sustainable society and we can talk about it. I don't have to like you to respect you.

To MANY, MANY, MANY Americans, July 4th has NOTHING to do with celebrating the current administration, or any of the United States' current policies necessarily, but rather, celebrating the American Spirit and the Spirit of Democracy and Equality and Freedom for all peoples, regardless of race, gender, creed, religion, ...sexual preference, etc. etc. etc. These are noble things to celebrate, and despite being a left-leaning centrist American who is not completely satisfied with America's current state, I still celebrate the Birth of Modern Democracy.

(didn't get to this year, because of work...but darn it, if I wasn't working, I know I would've been out there blowing stuff up...)

To MANY, MANY, MANY Americans, July 4th has NOTHING to do with celebrating the current administration, or any of the United States' current policies necessarily, but rather, celebrating the American Spirit and the Spirit of Democracy and Equality and Freedom for all peoples, regardless of race, gender, creed, religion, ...sexual preference, etc. etc. etc. These are noble things to celebrate, and despite being a left-leaning centrist American who is not completely satisfied with America's current state, I still celebrate the Birth of Modern Democracy.

(didn't get to this year, because of work...but darn it, if I wasn't working, I know I would've been out there blowing stuff up...)
Perhaps I got it wrong, but I didn't think the questions had anything to do with July 4th?
Anyway, I suspect I'd spend the day crying if I were American. It seems to me like you had this great victory, one which presented you with unlimited possibilities for the future.... And you utterly blew it.

...Yea, I'd spend the day crying my eyes out if I were American. I'm sorry for the few of you who wanted a better country, with liberty, justice and equality for all.

Edit: I'm sorry you missed your celebration by the way. And I just wanted to add: I do not equate July 4th with any government. I see it in the light of what you wrote in your constitution and what you have today. I think it's tragic, but I realise very few agrees with me.
I also wanted to add: Sure, I hate the Bush administration almost as much as I hated Reagan's. But you've yet to elect a president in my lifetime isn't a complete bastard.

Perhaps I got it wrong, but I didn't think the questions had anything to do with July 4th?
Anyway, I suspect I'd spend the day crying if I were American. It seems to me like you had this great victory, one which presented you with unlimited possibilities for the future.... And you utterly blew it.

...Yea, I'd spend the day crying my eyes out if I were American. I'm sorry for the few of you who wanted a better country, with liberty, justice and equality for all.
The question has to do with whether or not the world celebrates July 4th with America.
The quickly and decievingly obvious answer is "No," because the reason America celebrates July 4th is because it marks the birth of America--her independence. Why would any non-American want to celebrate that?

However, I was refreshing history to the forum and explaining a possible reason why July 4th could possibly be celebrated by more than just Americans, as that date marks not only the birth of America, but the birth of Modern Democracy. And sure, while America isn't exactly living up to her finest moments (in my, and many other people's opinion) these days, the fact of the matter is, had the great American patriots never done what they did, we'd likely all be simple territories controlled by one imperical monarchy or another.

The only reason to cry in disappointment on July 4th is if you hate democracy. Do you hate democracy?

Edit: I'm sorry you missed your celebration by the way. And I just wanted to add: I do not equate July 4th with any government. I see it in the light of what you wrote in your constitution and what you have today. I think it's tragic, but I realise very few agrees with me.
I also wanted to add: Sure, I hate the Bush administration almost as much as I hated Reagan's. But you've yet to elect a president in my lifetime isn't a complete bastard.
What does July 4th have anything to do with the American constitution?

What Americans celebrate on July 4th is the drafting and signing of the American Declaration of Independence in 1776, which told Britain that she had no right to govern us, and that we were going to govern ourselves. It goes on to iterate the importance of self-governance and soveriegnty. Have you ever read the American Declaration of Independence? It's what is actually celebrated on July 4th.

After all, the United States Constitution didn't even start getting considered until AFTER we kicked the British out...and when we drafted and signed the Declaration of Independence, we were still fighting the Revolution...

Heres someones opinion on America..
-
<Person1> americans think the rest of the world celebrates 4th of july with them
<Person2> who said that?
<Person1> and pete said that, and other people on irc
<Person2> dont let 1 american account for every american
<Person1> I know lots of americans
<Person1> all americans are stupid
-
1) Do agree with Person1? Why?
2) Do you think all Americans are like that?
3) Why do so many people hate the USA?
4) Whats your opinion on USA and Americans in general?
5) What could USA do to change your mind? (if possible)1) No, not all americans are stupid, but infortunately it's very easy to come across stupid americans when browsing boards and such. About the world celebration of the 4th of July, that's basically the end of the blockbuster Independance Day, which really piss us the non-american viewers off. But other than that I don't think Americans actually believe the world celebrates this 4th of July thingy.

2) Infortunately, the stupidest Americans seem to be also the loudest. But I personally think Americans have about the same share of stupid people as any other country. The thing is the US is the most powerful country, and stupid people with power are scary.

3) The word "hate" is a bit strong. It feels to me that people who think they are actually being hated just want to be hated so they can hate the ones who supposely hate them. I am French, although I may be critical about some stuff about the US but I sure do like the US, but I very often meet (on boards like this one) Americans who will tell me that I hate them and just start insulting my countries with baseless stereotypes. I do know those may not be the majority, but this do happen all the time.

4) The USA is a great country, the best in a lot of things. But there are a lot of wrong things going on there too. So basically, it's just another country... The thing is : the US is the most powerful country outhere and is aggressively seeking to widen its influence on our countries, so its "flaws" feel more important to us.

My view is that American are extremely diverse. For instance, most Americans seem to be the nicest people, and at the same time you'll find in America the worst idots and jackass. The US seems to be the nation of all the extremes...

5) I don't really know. I think Americans should try not to take every critic on their country as hate, and try to understand the point of view of the ones who make them.

3) Why do so many people hate the USA?


Some reasons why the USA is so hated.(in no particular order)

1. Massive war crimes in Vietnam war: The mass murder of well over 1 million (some say about 3 million) innocent Vietnamese civilians during the Vietnam war was an act of mass state terrorism. (The USA also used chemical weapons such as dioxins in this aggressive war.) The USA should have been forced to pay hundreds of billions of dollars of reparations for their war crimes. But instead, the USA imposed horrendous trade sanctions on Vietnam which led to mass starvation for many years. At the same time, the USA forced the Vietnamese to put a humiliating amount of effort into finding decades-old corpses of American war criminals. Hundreds of thousands of innocent civilian Vietnamese died without their bodies being recovered. But US citizens are capable of feeling no sympathy for any people other than their own. They think that one American is worth a thousand foreigners. There are many people in the USA even now who are proud of their participation in the mass murder and war crimes in Vietnam.

2. Terrorism on 9-11: Destruction of democracy in Chile: The removal of the freely elected democratic government of Chile by the CIA, including the bombing of the presidential palace , followed by the murder of thousands of innocent civilians. This proves that the USA is not in favour of democracy.

2.1 Destruction of democracy in Iran.

4. Embargo of Cuba but not China or Saudi Arabia: Decades of embargo of the popular government of Cuba, while the USA gives most favoured nation status to China, which is one of the most undemocratic governments in the world. The support for China and Saudi Arabia is purely in the US self-interest. The dislike of Cuba by the USA is really due to the fact that Cuba does not bow to the USA.

6. Total support for Israel's ethnic cleansing of Palestinians: The USA continues to protect, encourage and finance Israel's 6 decades of ethnic cleansing in Palestine. The USA thwarts every humane gesture by the United Nations. The USA encourages and financially supports the slaughter of several hundred innocent people in Palestine every year by the Israeli death squads seeking Lebensraum. It is clear that the USA's ruling class is in love with Israel. They are blinded by love. [If the Palestinians all converted to Christianity, the scales would fall from the eyes of the US Americans. Then they would realise that the Palestinians are human beings.] The occupied West Bank of Jordan resembles the Warsaw Ghetto of World War II. The occupied West Bank is a slave colony of the jewish Israelis. But deeds which were evil when the Germans did them in WW2 are now encouraged every day by the USA when the Israeli land thieves do them. Seeing the enthusiastic US American support for Israelis turning innocent Palestinians into mincemeat is the principal cause of worldwide muslim anger against the USA. (Jewish intellectuals, as individuals, are the best people in the world in my opinion. The jewish people have the highest regard for education, intelligence and learning. But the Israeli apartheid regime has soiled the good name of all jewish people.)
My personal theory about the love affair between the USA and Israel is that US Americans feel a deep sense of emptiness in their short history. They can look back with nostalgia to the early migrations, the severance from Britain, the settlement/appropriation of the West, and the Civil War. But they have no deep sense of history as other nations have. To fill this gap, they look to the christian bible, which is tacked onto the jewish bible, and see their deeper origins as lying in Jewish history. Therefore US Americans feel that in some fundamental sense they originate from the Jewish people. So the love of Israel is really a kind of yearning for the ancestors. If the USA severed its attachment to Israel, US Americans would have to face the emptiness of their own short history. Some people wonder why a rich country such as the USA is so obsessed with religion. (Usually religion fades in rich countries.) The answer may be that christianity gives the USA a deeper national creation mythology than they can compose in their own right. The jewish and christian stories are substitutes for a deeper US American national creation mythology.

8. Support for Pol Pot genocide: The USA backed Pol Pot with arms, training, finance and full diplomatic support for over a decade. This was one of the worst regimes in history, which killed over 1/3 of the population of the country. But the USA supported Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge as they continued to commit atrocities and destroy the country of Cambodia with land mines. The rise of Pol Pot started when the USA was illegally bombing huge areas of Cambodia and Laos, intentionally killing vast numbers of innocent civilians. The USA has never apologized for these crimes.

10. Training of terrorists in Latin America: The USA funds the infamous terrorist training school called the School of the Americas.

11. Funding, weapons and training for Nicaraguan terrorists: The USA gave huge amounts of funding to terrorists in Nicaragua who killed hundreds of thousands of Nicaraguans in the 1980s with guns and mines on farmland. Tens of thousands of innocent civilians lost their legs or were maimed in other ways. When there was finally an election along US-approved lines, the USA said the vote was not fair and would not be recognized - until it emerged that the USA's puppet won, and then they immediately announced that the election was completely fair. (The previous election which brought the Sandinistas to power was recognized by official European observors and everyone else as free and fair. But the people didn't elect a a pro-mega-capitalist government. So the US rejected that election as flawed. This is because US governments think that democracy and pro-US-capitalism are the same thing. The USA was happy with the previous puppet dictator Somoza.)

12. Illegal mining of Managua harbour: The USA illegally mined Managua harbour. When the USA was taken to the international court for this and the USA lost the case, the USA immediately withdrew its recognition of the court, even though it had agreed by treaty to give at least 6 months notice of withdrawal of recognition. The USA clearly believes that only other countries need to abide by international agreements. The USA is exempt from all international law.

I hope OceanDrive2 tells us where he C&Ped from because despite numbering to 12, there are only 9 reasons there.

I hope OceanDrive2 tells us where he C&Ped from because despite numbering to 12, there are only 9 reasons there.
only 9? nope.
12 ? nope.
there is 87 reasons on the list.

look at #86

86. Funding and organization of death squads in El Salvador: Ronald Reagan's government funded and organized paramilitary groups in El Salvador to torture and kill people who had anti-American sympathies. In 2005, the USA is seriously considering setting up the same kinds of death squads in Iraq to break the resistance to the unprovoked invasion and mass murder by the USA in Iraq.

http://www.isometry.com/usahate.html

Last edited by OceanDrive2 : Today at 7:16 PM.

Just happens to be 2 minutes after my previous post.

In that edit, you cut out #5 and put in #4.

But either way, the list is numbered to #12, but you don't have a #5, #7, or #9.

12 - 3 = 9.

And despite that, you still haven't shared with us where you're C&Ping from.

EDIT: Sorry, just saw the link in your second post.

Just happens to be 2 minutes after my previous post.

In that edit, you cut out #5 and put in #4.

But either way, the list is numbered to #12, but you don't have a #5, #7, or #9.

And despite that, you still haven't shared with us where you're C&Ping from.the order I would use is not like theirs.

Chile and Iran are high on my list...

you dont like my choices?

sue me. :D

I don't care which ones you pick, I was just explained that you had obviously C&Ped without sourcing, which I consider plagarizing. Now that you've fixed it, it's no big deal...

C&Ped without sourcing, which I consider plagarizing...of course I CopyPasted...when do you ever see me writing (long articles) without making a ton of grammar mistakes... :headbang:

plagarizing?

sue me :D

What does July 4th have anything to do with the American constitution?

What Americans celebrate on July 4th is the drafting and signing of the American Declaration of Independence in 1776, which told Britain that she had no right to govern us, and that we were going to govern ourselves. It goes on to iterate the importance of self-governance and soveriegnty. Have you ever read the American Declaration of Independence? It's what is actually celebrated on July 4th.

After all, the United States Constitution didn't even start getting considered until AFTER we kicked the British out...and when we drafted and signed the Declaration of Independence, we were still fighting the Revolution...
I'm sorry I didn't realize you wanted to know if the rest of the world celebrates July 4th. The answer is: No.

About the constitution: You just explained what it has to do with eachother. One great thing made the other possible.
And yes, I did read both many many years ago when I went to school. And no, I'm not real keen on rereading either. Reading half comprehensible english from 200 years ago isn't my idea of fun. No offence.

Anyway, I thought you were asking if & why people hated America and if we veiwed you, one and all, as stupid sods. Again, sorry about the confusion.

I'm sorry I didn't realize you wanted to know if the rest of the world celebrates July 4th. The answer is: No.

Anyway, I thought you were asking if & why people hated America and if we veiwed you, one and all, as stupid sods. Again, sorry about the confusion.
You're still confused.

I know that practically all non-Americans do not celebrate the American indepedence. I was offering a reason as to why any non-American would celebrate that day if he or she did celebrate that day, and that reason is because it is more than just the birth of the United States. It is the birth of Modern Democracy. And unless you're British or hate democracy (not that the British hate democracy), I don't see what's not to like about the Declration of Independence...

You're still confused.

I know that practically all non-Americans do not celebrate the American indepedence. I was offering a reason as to why any non-American would celebrate that day if he or she did celebrate that day, and that reason is because it is more than just the birth of the United States. It is the birth of Modern Democracy. And unless you're British or hate democracy (not that the British hate democracy), I don't see what's not to like about the Declration of Independence...
Oh! Sorry it's getting really late.

Short answer, 'cos I'm off to bed. No, I don't fancy celebrating July 4th.
1. It's a highly national thing for Americans
2. It's completely commercialised
3. Even if it celebrated the invention of vodka, I wouldn't want any more of your culture.
4. I fail to see what's so good about democracy.
5-99999999999999999999999999. Repeat 2 & 3.

Thanks anyway. Nite nite.

America is hated for several reasons, but mostly because of the foriegn policies it has and continues to have. A lot of people hated americans because of the government actions, and then you get the stereotypical visible American, as tourists and visitors, which are the only Americans many are likely to meet. If you meet 10 americans, all of them are assholes, and the American government keep screwing your country over, of course you are going to hate Americans

Let's look very brefly at some bad american policies
Afghanistan, Gave weapons to Taliban to fight Russians
Iraq, Gave weapons to Hussein under Reagan to fight Iranians, invades under Bush I, leaves dictators in power for ten years, invades again.
Cuba, and other communist states, etc.

Many also hate america for inaction, indirectness of actions, or support of others. A lot of Palestinians and moderate arabs are the last reason.

The westen citizens that do not like America are usually because of tourists and what they do to other countries, such as Iraq, Afghanistan. A lot of Europeans and Australians are like this.

Having said all this, not all of this is America's fault, due to radicals and propaganda, but America has a lot to do with these attitudes. What makes it worse is the fact a lot of visible Americans to these people have the 'Fuck you I'm american" attitude, which pisses them off more.

America is hated for several reasons, but mostly because of the foriegn policies it has and continues to have. A lot of people hated americans because of the government actions, and then you get the stereotypical visible American, as tourists and visitors, which are the only Americans many are likely to meet. If you meet 10 americans, all of them are assholes, and the American government keep screwing your country over, of course you are going to hate Americans

Let's look very brefly at some bad american policies
Afghanistan, Gave weapons to Taliban to fight Russians
Iraq, Gave weapons to Hussein under Reagan to fight Iranians, invades under Bush I, leaves dictators in power for ten years, invades again.
Cuba, and other communist states, etc.

Many also hate america for inaction, indirectness of actions, or support of others. A lot of Palestinians and moderate arabs are the last reason.

The westen citizens that do not like America are usually because of tourists and what they do to other countries, such as Iraq, Afghanistan. A lot of Europeans and Australians are like this.

Having said all this, not all of this is America's fault, due to radicals and propaganda, but America has a lot to do with these attitudes. What makes it worse is the fact a lot of visible Americans to these people have the 'Fuck you I'm american" attitude, which pisses them off more.


This post made me realize something. In Afghanistan...America did everything bass ackwards.

When Afghanistan was in risk of having its soveriegnty trampled on, instead of assisting in fending off the assualts and help defending Afghan sovereignty, we let the government arm Afghan militants (and regardless of what they thought of the US then, militants aren't always the most mentally sound people) to fight off the Soviets...

And now we're in the Middle East trying to fight two civil wars for someone else...

This post made me realize something. In Afghanistan...America did everything bass ackwards.

When Afghanistan was in risk of having its soveriegnty trampled on, instead of assisting in fending off the assualts and help defending Afghan sovereignty, we let the government arm Afghan militants (and regardless of what they thought of the US then, militants aren't always the most mentally sound people) to fight off the Soviets...

And now we're in the Middle East trying to fight two civil wars for someone else...

Yeah that why the Taliban and bin laden are such bastards to catch, they have like 10-20 years experience, and they beat the Russians

Hey I saw a Daily Show Special on this. The news correspondent was speculating that maybe foreigners don't like the US because they're made unwelcome when visiting. So to test the theory he donned a traditional German army uniforn (circa 1939) and walked around New York. Sure enough he was treated very rudely! :D

You're still confused.

I know that practically all non-Americans do not celebrate the American indepedence. I was offering a reason as to why any non-American would celebrate that day if he or she did celebrate that day, and that reason is because it is more than just the birth of the United States. It is the birth of Modern Democracy. And unless you're British or hate democracy (not that the British hate democracy), I don't see what's not to like about the Declration of Independence...

But to many people it is not more than just the birth of the US. As to the birth of modern democracy, since the US didn't have universal suffrage until quite some time later, I would actually question that. As a European, the French Revolution (which I don't celebrate, either, not being French) and the development of the British democracy seem to have a more direct impact on our history. That the 4th of July is indeed one of more important dates in in the western history goes without saying.