NationStates Jolt Archive

I was thinking (yeah, I know, bad idea :) ) and I was just wondering what idea/invention/concept people would consider to have had the most impact on civilization. I originally planned to have it as the most important, but there is a fine line between most impact and most important as importance is dependent on era and social norms, among other factors.
Personally, however, I believe it to be the conception of time. The idea of time, and the measurement thereof, has provided man a groundwork for progress. From this backdrop of conceptual reality humanity can record history and plan for the future, drawing from memory and the past to move forward. At the same time (no pun intended :p ), developing a concrete system to represent the passage of time (the linear concept) gives man a feeling of place, of assurance that he is living to make an impact as part of the grand scheme of things, thereby spurring his intellect and giving him reason to invent, create and adapt, so that further along that line his influence will be felt.
So that is my opinion; any others?

War

Agriculture

Okay...good, but any specific reason?
Edit: Try to post reasons/thinking along with post, sorry I should have specified earlier. It just helps to keep conversation going, plus it allows others to see your reasoning (gets people thinking ;) )

Fire. Humans would have never developed beyond cave-man status without mastering fire. Fire allows for warmth, cooked food and protection. Fire allowed man to clear forests so he could grow crops, and allowed man to forge metal for better weapons and tools. Fire remains solely mans tool as no other creature has mastered it. Many animals can use simple tools, but fire has only ever been mastered by man.

Beer.

How The Discovery of Beer
Led to Civilization As We Know It

According to one prominent anthropologist, what lured our ancient ancestors out of their caves may not have been a thirst for knowledge, but a thirst for beer.

Dr. Solomon Katz theorizes that when man learned to ferment grain into beer more than 10,000 years ago, it became one of his most important sources of nutrition. Beer gave people protein that unfermented grain couldn't supply. And besides, it tasted a whole lot better than the unfermented grain did.
But in order to have a steady supply of beer, it was necessary to have a steady supply of beer's ingredients. Man had to give up his nomadic ways, settle down, and begin farming. And once he did, civilization was just a stone's throw away

http://www.beerinstitute.org/history1.htm

Impacting? The hammer.

Impacting? The hammer.

:p

Gunpowder.

Agriculture.

It allowed humans to settle down, build houses, have sex in a bedroom, multiply.

Impacting? The hammer.LET THE HAMMER FALL!

Agriculture.

It allowed humans to settle down, build houses, have sex in a bedroom, multiply.

Either this or Fire, but I'm not sure about fire because it really isn't an invention. But agriculture was.

War
This has merit, even though agriculture came first.

Think about it: many technologies we have today came out of armed struggles, with inventions designed to better the enemy.

The idea of an empire. The Roman and Greek empires led to everything: Weapons, math, science, agriculture, philosophy, music.

But if man had not developed the sense of his own existence as part of something that passes...what drive would he have had to perpetuate his ideas?

The idea of an empire. The Roman and Greek empires led to everything: Weapons, math, science, agriculture, philosophy, music.

Actually, most of those were around long before Greece(Which preceded Rome), and some of those predate known history. Weapons were used tens of thousands of years before the first historical documents were recorded. Rudimentary science also was long before either Rome or Greece, philosophy occured thousands of years ago, agriculture the same.

Basically, teh empire had nothing to do with any of those.

Actually, most of those were around long before Greece(Which preceded Rome), and some of those predate known history. Weapons were used tens of thousands of years before the first historical documents were recorded. Rudimentary science also was long before either Rome or Greece, philosophy occured thousands of years ago, agriculture the same.

Basically, teh empire had nothing to do with any of those.
And the Golden Age of Greece was before its empire.

Mathematics. Engineering, music, art, astronomy, astrology, chemistry, and so on. Almost all science would be impossible without mathematics. Even agriculture requires basic mathematics to be viable.

The idea of an empire, or any societal system, is to endure so that the culture and civilization may last. If time had not been realized, where would creativity, inventions and ideas exist? (in other words, what reason would man have to create something, if he had no assurance that it would be remembered?)

And the Golden Age of Greece was before its empire.
Not to mention the word "Macedonia".

The concept of general reality. Mankind could never have accomplished anything without the knowledge that we can directly effect our surroundings through are actions and that we have free will to do so. Knowing that we exist and that other masses around us exist as well and knowing the basic nature of our surroundings allows us to function in a physical world.

Giant panda ballet of course.

the cotton gin

Langauge

Nobody mentioned the Printing Press?

Nobody mentioned the Printing Press?

You did, just then :p

What about the idea of challenging authority? In my opinion, it's that idea which started modern history.

I'd also say combing mathematics and science was very important.

I was thinking (yeah, I know, bad idea :) ) and I was just wondering what idea/invention/concept people would consider to have had the most impact on civilization. I originally planned to have it as the most important, but there is a fine line between most impact and most important as importance is dependent on era and social norms, among other factors.
Personally, however, I believe it to be the conception of time. The idea of time, and the measurement thereof, has provided man a groundwork for progress. From this backdrop of conceptual reality humanity can record history and plan for the future, drawing from memory and the past to move forward. At the same time (no pun intended :p ), developing a concrete system to represent the passage of time (the linear concept) gives man a feeling of place, of assurance that he is living to make an impact as part of the grand scheme of things, thereby spurring his intellect and giving him reason to invent, create and adapt, so that further along that line his influence will be felt.
So that is my opinion; any others?

I think the automobile has had the largest impact on civilization.

I was thinking (yeah, I know, bad idea :) ) and I was just wondering what idea/invention/concept people would consider to have had the most impact on civilization. I originally planned to have it as the most important, but there is a fine line between most impact and most important as importance is dependent on era and social norms, among other factors.
Personally, however, I believe it to be the conception of time. The idea of time, and the measurement thereof, has provided man a groundwork for progress. From this backdrop of conceptual reality humanity can record history and plan for the future, drawing from memory and the past to move forward. At the same time (no pun intended :p ), developing a concrete system to represent the passage of time (the linear concept) gives man a feeling of place, of assurance that he is living to make an impact as part of the grand scheme of things, thereby spurring his intellect and giving him reason to invent, create and adapt, so that further along that line his influence will be felt.
So that is my opinion; any others?
As well as what you've said, there is strong evidence that time, and the measurement thereof actually directly led to our modern system of measurement (the imperial, avoirdupois and metric systems). Read 'Civilization One' if you're interested.
Personally, fire, or rather the discovery of the properties of fire, had perhaps the greatest impact - as well as what Itinerate Tree Dweller has already said, it allowed meat to be cooked, making it more appetising to humans. Meat allowed our brains to evolve; therefore, without fire, we would not have evolved to our present level of intelligence

The WheelDuh! :headbang:

For modern civilization, Maxwell's Equations, they allow us to predict the actions of electromagnetic waves (light, radio/X/gamma rays) in various situations, and thus use them.

Civilization as a whole... agriculture, without the food to support them, all other members of society besides the farmers fail.

Marric']For modern civilization, Maxwell's Equations, they allow us to predict the actions of electromagnetic waves (light, radio/X/gamma rays) in various situations, and thus use them.

Civilization as a whole... agriculture, without the food to support them, all other members of society besides the farmers fail.
Y'all keep forgetting that one has to have a reason to develop agraculture besides being too tired to chase down your food. That's why BEER is so important (ok, Beer, Wine and Mead).

All 3 need time and stability to ferment, though mead has been successfully made in goatskins from diluted honey.

While you are waiting for your Booze to ferment, you might as well grow more Booze Stock - or at least find a honey tree... maybe learn to cultivate bees.

Without Booze there would be no civizilization - at all. :D

How to create and use fire is absolutely the most important... without fire, no heating the hops for beer, no light for writing mathmatics equations or treating the raw material to use as a writing medium. No fire, than its hardier to plant crops in wooded areas (which are cleared using fire). No fire, than most weapons of war cannot be made.

Fire makes most tools possible at all. So although tools were the first invention (scrapers, spear points etc), fire made them more useful, durable and allowed for the developed of alternate materials.

Cooking meat and boiling certain vegatation is absolutely critical as well.

Fire is the big one. Although its a natural occuring phenoma, producing it on demand was an invention.

How to create and use fire is absolutely the most important... without fire, no heating the hops for beer, no light for writing mathmatics equations or treating the raw material to use as a writing medium. No fire, than its hardier to plant crops in wooded areas (which are cleared using fire). No fire, than most weapons of war cannot be made.

Fire makes most tools possible at all. So although tools were the first invention (scrapers, spear points etc), fire made them more useful, durable and allowed for the developed of alternate materials.

Cooking meat and boiling certain vegatation is absolutely critical as well.

Fire is the big one. Although its a natural occuring phenoma, producing it on demand was an invention. Naturally occuring fire was carefully cared for, with keepers maintaining coals in semi-sealed braziers during nomadic migrations. Only later, after much use of fire (usually after settling, which made it harder to find the remains of natural fires) were novel ways of starting it invented. So the invention of fire-starting didn't have that great an impact.

Mead and wine can be made quite adequately without any fire at all. (I accidentially made a really nice batch of Cranberry Wine when a plastic jug of cranberry juice began fermenting in a cupboard... but if I were nomadic I couldn't have waited for it to finish. I preferred to wait it out and drink the proceeds!)

So I still say Booze was responsible for the creation of non-nomadic lifestyles and all the progress derived from settlement.

Without wheels there would be hardly anything we have actually here

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you .... The Wedge.

While I can see Syniks' agument for booze, I would argue that booze was only discovered accidentally after people had already settled down and planted crops. It may well be a factor in the widespread use of settled lifestyles, but I can not see it as being the cause of the first permanent agricultural settlements. Control of fire was certainly important, but it did not have the impact that the change from a hunter gatherer society to a settlement agrarian society had. There are tribes in the Amazon and in Indonesia etc. that are still hunter gatherers. They have control of fire, but no settled lifestyle, no civilization as such.

Before agriculture and food surpluses, each and every person was concerned with eating, drinking and reproducing (not that they aren't now, just this does not occupy all of their time). That and that only. With the production of surplusses that agriculture provided, some people were freed from this demand, allowing the use of the human intellect to develop mathematics, the wheel, electromagnetic theory, cars etc.

So agriculture is the idea that created civilization, the rest depend upon its existence.

While I can see Syniks' agument for booze, I would argue that booze was only discovered accidentally after people had already settled down and planted crops. It may well be a factor in the widespread use of settled lifestyles, but I can not see it as being the cause of the first permanent agricultural settlements. <snip>
Somewhere I have some palentology stuff that asserts that the first booze was accidentaly discovered when honey-water mixtures (mixed to prevent the water from going bad on long journeys) in animal bladders fermented from disuse (lots of rain/rivers/oasises). Someone who settled in an area with sufficient water (why settle in the desert?) would not tend to store it in tightly sealed containers, nor treat it with honey. Those attributes were unique to travel bladders and provide the only sufficient conditions for fermentation.

I'll dig in my stuff. Hopefully I'll find it.

Christianity

So agriculture is the idea that created civilization, the rest depend upon its existence.

Uh huh ... and what do you till a row with? A Wedge!

The Wedge pwns all.

Anyone mention the Pill yet?

Uh huh ... and what do you till a row with? A Wedge!

The Wedge pwns all.
The till simply expediates agriculture. You can have an agricultural society with farmers that work entirely with their hands...the tools simply mean that fewer farmers can feed more people...but it's the idea of agriculture that allows society to exist...

"But that’s easy. Antiseptics. Like the whole sanitation thing. Joseph Lister, 1895. Before antiseptics, there was no sanitation, especially in medicine."
"You mean soap?"

The till simply expediates agriculture. You can have an agricultural society with farmers that work entirely with their hands

Their hands used as a Wedge!

The Mighty Wedge wins again!

Their hands used as a Wedge!

The Mighty Wedge wins again!
I believe you're exactly correct. (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=define%3Atroll&btnG=Google+Search)

existance

I believe you're exactly correct. (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=define%3Atroll&btnG=Google+Search)

Not a troll. It's on topic and serious.

The Wedge is man's greatest innovation.

The television. I say this because it is a medium, by which I mean it is neither rare or is it well done

it's totally agriculture, no question. surprisingly, agriculture also wins the prize for "worst idea ever".

Even though it was around before humans, I'm going to go with sex.

Christianity
Close. I, myself, would have to say the concept of religion has the greatest impact. We're looking at a system that's been used since the beginning to effect how people live. Religion has been used to explain things, to provide rules, to offer leadership, and as the basis of war. The impact of religion on civilization has been a great one.

And I mean religion in general, not just Christianity. Judaism was around before that, and several others before Judaism. People's lives, and even entire countries, have been made and destroyed by religion. The role of Shinto as a unifying force in Japan during WWII, Northern Ireland with the Catholics and Protestants, the Middle East, just to name a few. And even if things aren't done directly because of religion, often people lay claim it was a factor. Sport stars that claim God helped them win for example.

The concept of religion can even be streched to relate to superstitions. And I don't think I really need to go into much detail on how those play a major role in people's lives or how things get done.

I can even conceptualize how religion could have been used as motivation in science and technology. By those who wanted solid answers, sure. Maybe people looking for the truth. But how about also those trying to honor their religion? If you're going to create the largest temple of the time in order to honor your God, you're going to want to advance architecture to make it look worthy. You're going to want to use the best materials, possibly meaning you're going to experiment with what you have to see if it can be combined to make something stronger. You're going to develop technology to help you build. The Eygptians thought up ways to build their great temples and pyramids.

I also put a great deal of value in agriculture. However, I felt that religion holds a greater impact if only slightly.

I didn't see it on the first page so I hope I'm not repeating something, but suspect it likely. I'd have to say religion/god/gods/godesses have probably had the most impact either on the basis of belief or reaction against belief. I don't think any other idea or construct has so shaped human life/culture/behavior.


P.S. I guess I should have looked at the last page as well. Sorry for the redundancy.

The scratch plough, an enormous improvement in agriculture, that allowed communities to become more settled & expand through increased food production.

Or the printing press, revolutionised the dissemination of information.

Probably what in the end will have the most impact on human civilisation is the distinction between indirect and direct murder. For example, if someone strangles a lot of people, like Ted Bundy, he is evil and a murdered, but if the policy choices of a few individuals kill hundreds of thousands that need not have died, they are hailed as heros, or sometimes villains, but never treated as criminals, like Napoleon, Alexander the Great, Josef Stalin, George Bush.