NationStates Jolt Archive

How about we get ourselves a car-thread. I cannot be the only one here who is a bit of a petrolhead.

I'll start with this statement:
European Sportscars (Porsche, Ferrari, Lotus even) are superior to American Sportscars (Corvettes, Vipers, Mustangs etc) because they usually derive their power from smaller engine capacities, because they usually are of higher build quality and, most importantly, because they are better set up suspension wise.
American sportscars have soft suspensions, little steering feel and are generally incapable of actually getting their power on the road. They are better left in the garage if a road has corners in it.

And all this time I thought you were a socialist :confused:

And all this time I thought you were a socialist :confused:
A socialist with a hobby...
It's true, my driving can be quite antisocial ;)
Plus: Smaller engine capacity often means less fuel consumption.

We tend to go for muscle cars. How do you rate the DeLorean?

You're missing several important points in your comparison. One being price. All the American sportscars you mentioned are less than any one of the European sportscars you mentioned (on average) with exception to the Lotus elise, and Porshe Boxter, Boxter S and stock 911. Smaller engine capacities? Do you know the engine specifics on the average Lamborgini or Ferrari?

I actually like European cars better (German cars in particular) anyway. Just wanted to throw some points out there. My dream car would be a BMW 325 Ci (black metallic or maybe white with black leather) supercharged. That way it would have the power of the M3, only cheaper, it would be relatively unassuming, and the insurance rates wouldn't be insane.

We tend to go for muscle cars. How do you rate the DeLorean?

DeLoren? You mean the huge hunk of junk that was built (Nadkor's gonna kill me...) in Belfast? As in Back to the Future car?

Can someone illuminate for me the fascination with cars that (mostly) males seem to posses? I tend to view cars as machines used to get fron a to b. they're big, ugly, expensive, and bad for the environment.
Where is this mystical "cool" that gets you salivating?!

Can someone illuminate for me the fascination with cars that (mostly) males seem to posses? I tend to view cars as machines used to get fron a to b. they're big, ugly, expensive, and bad for the environment.
Where is this mystical "cool" that gets you salivating?!

Eeeeuh, because. Yes, that's it: "because".

No more rationalizations please. Women aren't known for it. unless it's about cars. Then they start getting all pratical and stuff. :p

DeLoren? You mean the huge hunk of junk that was built (Nadkor's gonna kill me...) in Belfast? As in Back to the Future car?

Yup, that one. So other than that, what do you think of it?

I drive a 1997 tan lincoln continental with 82,000 miles on it. It is great for picking up chicks in. :rolleyes:

I just thought I would throw a few out there...all are base specs apart from Mustang GT

American Sports Car Engine Sizes

Ford GT (2005) - 5.4 Ltr V8, 550bhp, 500lb/ft torque

Ford Mustang GT (2005) - 4.6 Ltr V8, 300bhp

Chrysler Crossfire (2005) - 3.2-liter 18-valve V6, 215bhp

Dodge Viper (2005) - 8.3L V10 ( :eek: ), 500bhp, 500lb/ft torque

Chevrolet Corvette (2005) - 6.0-liter V8, 400bhp, 400lb/ft

Cadillac XLR (2005) - 4.6-liter dohc 32v V8 VVT, 320bhp, 310lb/ft



European Sports Car Engine Sizes

Porsche 911 (2005) - 3.6 Ltr "Straight 6", 325bhp, 273lb/ft torque

BMW Z4 (2005) - 2.5-liter VVT 24-valve Straight 6, 184bhp

Audi TT (2005) - 1.8-liter dohc 16-valve inline-4 turbo, 180bhp

Ferrari Enzo (2002) - 6Ltr, 650bhp

TVR Tuscan (2004) - 4Ltr, 400bhp,

Lamborghini Gallardo (2003) - 5ltr, 493bhp, 376 lb/ft

Yup, that one. So other than that, what do you think of it?

Unreliable, badly designed, high mpg, expensive...

...but it was in a film...

...tis ok, glad it existed but I wouldn't buy one...

Unreliable, badly designed, high mpg, expensive...

...but it was in a film...

...tis ok, glad it existed but I wouldn't buy one...

I couldn't remember a thing about it but the gull-wing doors and the cocaine scandal that followed.

I couldn't remember a thing about it but the gull-wing doors and the cocaine scandal that followed.

The gull wings doors were the only things that endeared me to the damned thing...but then I moved on and saw this...

http://www.fast-autos.net/mercedes/300sl4.jpg

I'm a fan of the Japanese cars myself, although there aren't really any Japanese supercars right now. The Acura/Honda NSX is a bit tired and doesn't really seem worth it's price. The last generations of the turboed versions of the Mazda RX-7, Nissan 300ZX, and Toyota Supra are all pretty impressive, as well as those cars that were never available in the US, like the Nissan Skyline. The current USDM Mitsubishi Evolution and Subaru WRX STI, while not strictly sports cars, kick the hell out of anything you can buy from Europe for that price, and they're more reliable. The new 350Z and RX-8 are okay, but I won't get too excited until they release turbo versions. The Honda S2000 is a very impressive machine, giving you far more bang for your buck than any German roadster. All these newer machines can be had in the US for around $30,000. It would be really cool to see Toyota release a new Supra that could compete with Porsches and Corvettes or better. We might see that soon. It would be awesome if Honda decided to build 8+ cylinder Le Mans class supercar, but that probably won't happen, but it'd probably be the cheapest 200mph car on the market.

As far as American cars having shiatty suspension, the Corvette does not deserve that distinction. I've seen brand new Corvettes at the autocross "track" and they've got very impressive handling. For years the top line Corvette (whatever it happens to be called) has been the best bet for a ready to race sports car. I can't speak for Vipers, and Mustangs aren't sports cars.

We tend to go for muscle cars. How do you rate the DeLorean?
Meh, never liked it, not in the movie and especially not in real life.

Smaller engine capacities? Do you know the engine specifics on the average Lamborgini or Ferrari?
What is the "average"? It is true that Lamborghini likes building big engines, but they have a lot of power too.
I am very impressed with the Ferrari V8 - the new one 4.3 ltr with about 490bHP. A Viper needs twice that engine to get the same output.

Can someone illuminate for me the fascination with cars that (mostly) males seem to posses?
Probably not. I like driving them, and from that comes the interest in the technology and the mysticism behind it. You either get, or you don't.

-snip-
So there is a clear pattern of US engines being bigger, while output averages the same. And you can assume that handling is worse for most of the American cars.

The current USDM Mitsubishi Evolution and Subaru WRX STI, while not strictly sports cars, kick the hell out of anything you can buy from Europe for that price, and they're more reliable. The new 350Z and RX-8 are okay, but I won't get too excited until they release turbo versions.
You're speaking to a proud owner of a '99 Subaru WRX. I know what you're talking about.


I've seen brand new Corvettes at the autocross "track" and they've got very impressive handling. For years the top line Corvette (whatever it happens to be called) has been the best bet for a ready to race sports car.
The Corvette is indeed the best American car. Nonetheless, "evo" reckons it's still got a few generations to go until it can compete with the 911.
And the Z06 is indeed excellent value for money, but it still has some fundamental flaws, like hanging on to an ancient rear suspension setup. They reckon it performs just as well, but their Le Mans cars are fitted with European-style suspensions...

Oh, the "horsepower/litre" discussion.
Example:
Honda CRX with a 1.6 engine, 160hp
Alfa Romeo 155 with a 2.0 engine with 150hp
Which is faster? The Alfa (OK, the CRX may gain a bit off the line as it's weights less... but I dare say that by the time they reach 3rd gear, Alfa will be gaining and will leave the CRX in the dust by the time they'll need to shift into 4th). Why? TORQUE, guys and gals, TORQUE. Bigger engine=more torque. In a nutshell, power=speed, torque=acceleration.
So, let's take an old 197x Dodge Coronet wagon. A 5.2 (IIRC) V8 with only 160hp. Is it slow? Nope, it's FAST, because it has truckloads of torque.
I don't understand just how smaller engine is better... What do you prefer? 180HP from a screaming 2.0 engine or 180HP from a slick 2.8 V6?
One more thing... Those little strained engines are usually working on their limit... it's easy to blow them up when overtuning them. Those big, lumbering V8 can take a lot more.
Yes, they may seem primitive... so what? That means they are easier (and cheaper) to modify.
As for Euro vs. US sportscars... Yes, the Euros are nimbler. But they lack the sheer, brute force of US cars. They are expensive and rarely driven hard... so delicate.

Euros are (sometimes) faster and handle better. This is why I love them (Lotus Exige!)
http://www.fantasycars.com/derek/cars/images/lotus/exige_1.jpg
Musclecars are brutal, lumbering and simple. And this is why I love them. (Dodge Charger!)
http://www.mopar-performance.bravepages.com/_borders/leftfront.jpg

What do men love about cars?
They are our toys (men never grow up... and this is fantastic!).
They give us freedom to go whereever we want and whenever we want.
They are our stallions.
They are something... special. They don't have to be practical, they don't have to be reliable, they even don't have to be very fast or handle well (think Opel Manta, modern Alfa Romeos).
Anyone will help me out?


Oh... I don't give a shit if my car is environmentally friendly. It just shouldn't leak oil or emit smoke (because this means it's broken).

...Why? TORQUE, guys and gals, TORQUE. Bigger engine=more torque...
By your logic, you should buy yourself a diesel.
And I prefer a screamer over a woofler. I'm not about driving in a straight line, I'm about going round corners. Fast.
And I have yet to see the American car that is really good at that.

Honda CRX, Alfa, huge cars! Get your self a proper mini and drop the 2lt Vtec in there with rear beam axle and some coil over suspension. Fantastic and I'm 6'4"!
Or if you want fun, an Atom or Super light 500 etc.

Honda CRX, Alfa, huge cars! Get your self a proper mini and drop the 2lt Vtec in there with rear beam axle and some coil over suspension. Fantastic and I'm 6'4"!
Or if you want fun, an Atom or Super light 500 etc.

FW 400 or the new Caterham

0-90-0 in 6.9 seconds. Now thats fast.

As for Euro vs. US sportscars... Yes, the Euros are nimbler. But they lack the sheer, brute force of US cars. They are expensive and rarely driven hard... so delicate.

For the most part I would agree with you...but I would hardly describe TVRs as 'delicate'...


Although, if i really had to choose...one of these would do me nicely...european two seater sports ideal and lotus V8 engine...with american muscle added...fibre glass body...nice...AC Shelby Super Cobra :eek:

http://www.autosrapidos.com/superautos/a/acshelby-cobra199801.jpg

For the most part I would agree with you...but I would hardly describe TVRs as 'delicate'...
Cerbera Speed 12
http://www.supercars.net/cars/1842.html
There is one road car now.
The legendary W112 BHG

V12 + 800bhp + 650lb/ft torque + 1000kg(2205Lbs) = :D :D :D :D :D

All these fancy cars... If i had enough money for any of these (somthing you can't get working part time at your local grocery store as a cashier) I would prolly get a WRX, mainly because of reliability, and they would be cheaper to run than a 8 cylinder... If i were to get an 8 cylinder, I would get a Holden Monaro though, they look sweet.
http://myweb.irongate.co.nz/mwdata/WestCityHolden/webpages/images/VZ%20Monaro%20-%20Red.JPG

How about we get ourselves a car-thread. I cannot be the only one here who is a bit of a petrolhead.

I'll start with this statement:
European Sportscars (Porsche, Ferrari, Lotus even) are superior to American Sportscars (Corvettes, Vipers, Mustangs etc) because they usually derive their power from smaller engine capacities, because they usually are of higher build quality and, most importantly, because they are better set up suspension wise.
American sportscars have soft suspensions, little steering feel and are generally incapable of actually getting their power on the road. They are better left in the garage if a road has corners in it.

I don't know about your experiences, but the Corvette has had an exemplary suspension and cornering ability for some time now.

The Corvette C6 with the Z51 package can do .98 G on the skidpad.
4/10ths of a second slower from 0 to 60 mph than a current model 911 Turbo, the Corvette apparently handles better - and at half the price.

A diesel?! I feel offended >:(
A (turbo) diesel pulls well from 1500 to 2500rpm. Now what the hell is that supposed to be? Those lumbering V8 pull well from 2000 to 5000rpm. Yum-yum.
As for going in a straight line... I'm offended again. Corners is what I live for. And cornering is much more about the driver than about a car... trust me.
The ultimate car: American V8 power and European light weight and suspension... TVR?

I'd get myself an old Opel or European Ford, rear wheel drive, of course. I'm thinking about a Manta or a Capri... Opel Monza becomes a classic, too (Rekord coupe with straight 6s). All in all I want an RWD car, without all that shitty electronics (hey, I'M driving dammit! If I crash I want to know it was only my fault, not some stupid computer that couldn't decide if I want to corner or not), and not so powerful... I don't think I have the skills to handle a 200hp+ RWD car... yet.

What you have to remember about Mustangs is that there are basically three classes of them: regular mustangs(V6), GTs(V8), and Cobra(V8 turbo) with the GT and the Cobra being Shelby-upgrades of the regular model. Another thing is that depending on who designed them, different parts of these cars are going to be better than others. Saleen designed some of the best suspensions/handling(like riding on rails almost) but didn't have the power, the SVT-designed one had the power but crappy suspension/handling, and the new ones(co-designed by SVT and Ford), is supposed to be a return to the old days(lots of power and great handling)...at least, that's what I've been told by people who drive them. And I'll be damned if they didn't steal my body design idea I had back in 99. The bastards! :p
What can I say....but that I'm a Mustang fanatic. Shelby is GOD! lol

*puts up hand* Excuse me, I'm a girl... I like cars!! It comes with being a mechanic's daughter and hanging around with boys all my life!
I used to be obsessed by Minis! I had an Austin Mini Clubman that was de-seamed, had sparco bucket seats, metallic dash board, the lot!
Unfortunately, I now have to be practical and get my 1 year old Peugeot 307 today. But maybe one day I'll get another Mini to soupe up! ;)
I do like TVRs though... those are wonderful! And I wouldn't have a boxy Merc if you paid me! Horrid looking things!

Can someone illuminate for me the fascination with cars that (mostly) males seem to posses? I tend to view cars as machines used to get fron a to b. they're big, ugly, expensive, and bad for the environment.
Where is this mystical "cool" that gets you salivating?!

There are plenty of things that women obsess over that us men do not understand one tiny bit. Grant us our one stupid infatuation. :D

When it comes to 4-wheeled "cages", I buy only Toyotas, for various reasons...

...but I prefer motorcycles. :D

*puts up hand* Excuse me, I'm a girl... I like cars!! It comes with being a mechanic's daughter and hanging around with boys all my life!
I used to be obsessed by Minis! I had an Austin Mini Clubman that was de-seamed, had sparco bucket seats, metallic dash board, the lot!
Unfortunately, I now have to be practical and get my 1 year old Peugeot 307 today. But maybe one day I'll get another Mini to soupe up! ;)
I do like TVRs though... those are wonderful! And I wouldn't have a boxy Merc if you paid me! Horrid looking things!

Still better than a Nissan Micra :p :D

Although I am now in posession of a Volvo 440 1.8i which has enough grunt to maintain speed up the hills in Yorkshire :D Sorted

With an insurance premium of £2,000 I have to stick with small cars for a while. I went for a brand new Ford Fiesta, primarily because of their handling. It's only 1.6l, but it's the handling I love. No matter how hard I try, I can't actually lose control of the damn thing. I can take corners as fast as I want, but there's no body roll, no tyres screeching, nothing. It just does it. Even in the snowstorms we had earlier this year, I didn't actually drive any differently than normal -- it didn't actually make much of a difference. May be small and low-powered but I love it. I'd love something bigger, of course... but that ain't happening for a while.

Still better than a Nissan Micra :p :D

Although I am now in posession of a Volvo 440 1.8i which has enough grunt to maintain speed up the hills in Yorkshire :D Sorted
Theres a set of hills in West Yorkshire and if you go over them fast enogh its like a roller-coaster

The Corvette C6 with the Z51 package can do .98 G on the skidpad.
4/10ths of a second slower from 0 to 60 mph than a current model 911 Turbo, the Corvette apparently handles better - and at half the price.
I heard Americans are really infatuated with cornering Gs...not that that is actually an indicator as to how well a car handles.
The Turbo is an awesome machine, there is nothing faster point to point on this planet. Period.
But handling wise, if you wanna have a good car you need to get yourself a rear-wheel drive 911.
Price is a good point. Indeed US cars are cheaper, but at least in Europe, that isn't enough to make up for their shortcomings (for many people).

A diesel?! I feel offended >:(
A (turbo) diesel pulls well from 1500 to 2500rpm. Now what the hell is that supposed to be? Those lumbering V8 pull well from 2000 to 5000rpm. Yum-yum.
The new generation Diesels bag pretty much everything around in terms of torque. The new BMW535d has 413lbft. Granted, at 2000rpm, but it is more than the M5's 5ltr V10 has. And they use much less fuel...

As for Micras, take a look at this
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/40867/brits_ready_150mph_micra_r.html

bump

Theres a set of hills in West Yorkshire and if you go over them fast enogh its like a roller-coaster

There are a few like that in Cheshire/Derbyshire too...soooooo much fun until the speed cameras came...but they have stopped the deaths on that road...

There are a few like that in Cheshire/Derbyshire too...soooooo much fun until the speed cameras came...but they have stopped the deaths on that road...
Go for a drive to Betws-y-Coed, in Northern Wales. Apparently they're the best roads in Britain.
Oh, oh and speed cameras, hey?
I don't think they stop anything but people enjoying to drive. Which is why I have a radar alarm in my car. And not a GPS-based one either.

Go for a drive to Betws-y-Coed, in Northern Wales. Apparently they're the best roads in Britain.
Oh, oh and speed cameras, hey?
I don't think they stop anything but people enjoying to drive. Which is why I have a radar alarm in my car. And not a GPS-based one either.

In many cases I agree, but on this road they have worked, its just where they get placed thats the vital thing IMHO...

In many cases I agree, but on this road they have worked, its just where they get placed thats the vital thing IMHO...
Hmm, this almost screams for a thread/poll: Speed Limits - yes or no?
There is a case to be made against them, you know.

FW 400 or the new Caterham

0-90-0 in 6.9 seconds. Now thats fast.
I think the Turbo atom has just taken the Caterhams crown. 0-100-0 in about 8 seconds.
If you want a great road. Hexham to the lakes via Alston. Fantastic!

I prefer true muscle cars...the classics.


The 69 Trans Am (http://www.jcsklassickars.com/images/69_trans_am.jpg)

69 Z 28 (http://www.furnari.net/carangos/imagens/timeline/69_chevrolet_camaro_z28.jpg) 69 Charger (http://moparhouse.com/main/69chgr2.jpg)

57 Chevy Belaire (http://classiccars.kfunk.net/chevy/57chevy_belair_sportcoupe_front.jpg)


Give me a big block thumper motor over the damn little screaming things that they are driving around in now anyday!

Question...why do the people that drive around in those little tricked out cars put mufflers on them that make them sound as though they are going down the road in one big fart? :D

Question...why do the people that drive around in those little tricked out cars put mufflers on them that make them sound as though they are going down the road in one big fart? :D
No idea.
But generally a wider exhaust pipe can improve performance by allowing gasses to be removed more quickly.
Which is of no importance if you only change the tip...

There are plenty of things that women obsess over that us men do not understand one tiny bit. Grant us our one stupid infatuation. :D*Gets out fairy wand*
Granted.

I've got a '64 T-bird that I'm in the process of restoring. It's got the high-end (mechanically) 390 bbl - that year, they came stock with solid lifters, you name it. It's supposed to pull 375 horses, and that's without any changes to it.

I'm excited about getting it road-worthy.

Having some hangups on the interior restoration tho... meh.

bump