NationStates Jolt Archive

Since there is such a large interest in matters of sexual orientation here, this looked interesting. The short of it is that there is now some evidence that bisexuality either does not exist or does at a significantly lower rate, at least among males.

Straight, Gay or Lying? Bisexuality Revisited (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/05/health/05sex.html?ei=5065&en=c4386390a5de9b2c&ex=1121140800&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print) (NY Times)

Some people are attracted to women; some are attracted to men. And some, if Sigmund Freud, Dr. Alfred Kinsey and millions of self-described bisexuals are to be believed, are drawn to both sexes.

But a new study casts doubt on whether true bisexuality exists, at least in men.

The study, by a team of psychologists in Chicago and Toronto, lends support to those who have long been skeptical that bisexuality is a distinct and stable sexual orientation.

People who claim bisexuality, according to these critics, are usually homosexual, but are ambivalent about their homosexuality or simply closeted. "You're either gay, straight or lying," as some gay men have put it.

In the new study, a team of psychologists directly measured genital arousal patterns in response to images of men and women. The psychologists found that men who identified themselves as bisexual were in fact exclusively aroused by either one sex or the other, usually by other men.

The study is the largest of several small reports suggesting that the estimated 1.7 percent of men who identify themselves as bisexual show physical attraction patterns that differ substantially from their professed desires.

"Research on sexual orientation has been based almost entirely on self-reports, and this is one of the few good studies using physiological measures," said Dr. Lisa Diamond, an associate professor of psychology and gender identity at the University of Utah, who was not involved in the study.

The discrepancy between what is happening in people's minds and what is going on in their bodies, she said, presents a puzzle "that the field now has to crack, and it raises this question about what we mean when we talk about desire."

"We have assumed that everyone means the same thing," she added, "but here we have evidence that that is not the case."

Several other researchers who have seen the study, scheduled to be published in the journal Psychological Science, said it would need to be repeated with larger numbers of bisexual men before clear conclusions could be drawn.

(continues) (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/05/health/05sex.html?ei=5065&en=c4386390a5de9b2c&ex=1121140800&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print)

Since there is such a large interest in matters of sexual orientation here, this looked interesting. The short of it is that there is now some evidence that bisexuality either does not exist or does at a significantly lower rate, at least among males.

Straight, Gay or Lying? Bisexuality Revisited (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/05/health/05sex.html?ei=5065&en=c4386390a5de9b2c&ex=1121140800&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print) (NY Times)



(continues) (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/05/health/05sex.html?ei=5065&en=c4386390a5de9b2c&ex=1121140800&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print)

I am mostly attracted to females. But there are some men who make me very, very horny. I don't know that I could have a relationship with a guy, but I do know that - if I were single, of course - I could sleep with one. So I dunno if bisexual means simply being happy to screw guys, or if it means actually developing an emotional bond of the kind traditionally ascribed to straight relationships.

I am mostly attracted to females. But there are some men who make me very, very horny. I don't know that I could have a relationship with a guy, but I do know that - if I were single, of course - I could sleep with one. So I dunno if bisexual means simply being happy to screw guys, or if it means actually developing an emotional bond of the kind traditionally ascribed to straight relationships.


Did you read the rest of the article? The study didn't cover women.

I have known more than one man to go through a "bisexuality" stage on his way to coming completely out of the closet. I think it is more comfortable for some when they first come out.

I don't think, however, that this is a reason to assume that any man claiming bisexuality is lying. In fact, I don't even think most of these guys who do this are lying - I think they fully believe it at the time.

If it is more rare I ame one of the few "the few the proud the bisexual"

I am mostly attracted to females. But there are some men who make me very, very horny. I don't know that I could have a relationship with a guy, but I do know that - if I were single, of course - I could sleep with one. So I dunno if bisexual means simply being happy to screw guys, or if it means actually developing an emotional bond of the kind traditionally ascribed to straight relationships.
Bingo.

(Male).

*yawns*

Like I've always said: hated by straights, hated by gays.

The story of my life.

I wish people would just get over their fascination with genitalia.

I happen to be one of the "normal" guys, though many thought I was gay. Perfectly straight, though. Gave a really sexy woman the ring, too.

However, saying that, I'm also just fine with gays/lesbians/bisexuals. It's all cool. It's pretty much a fact of life nowadays. As long as they don't bother me, I have no problem with them doing whatever they want. Heck, if they want to get married, then more power to them.

Now, pertaining to the topic at hand, I don't know of any bisexual males. Doesn't mean there aren't any, though. I figure if a guy really feels like he could do both a woman and a man, then he probably is bi. This does not count if he's gay and does the dirty with a woman to attempt to look straight or bi. The attraction has to be there.

I do know bi women, though. I know one of my younger sisters are bi. Maybe both. Pretty sure this topic does not apply to them.

*yawns*

Like I've always said: hated by straights, hated by gays.

The story of my life.

I wish people would just get over their fascination with genitalia.
Well said.

*yawns*

Like I've always said: hated by straights, hated by gays.

The story of my life.

I wish people would just get over their fascination with genitalia.

There does seem to be a lot of animosity from the gay community towards bisexuals. Why do you suppose that is?

I wish people would just get over their fascination with genitalia.

Sorry, ain't going to happen. Not that it is a bad idea, mind you, but sex has been turned into a taboo topic. Kids are kept out because parents don't wanna talk about it. It's embarrasing to try and explain the birds and the bees. Plus, teens get a really big interest in the parts when said parts start making changes in their bodies, such as hair in less common places (for themselves), lower voices for the guys, and built-in baby bottles (otherwise known as "breasts") for the gals. Not only that, I believe Freud also made a psychological statement about the minds going from the mouth and fingers being the primary stimulus the human relies on, to the anus, and then the genitalia. Being anal retentive is describing someone who is possibly stuck in the middle state where the primary signs is uber-control of everything and a tidiness that would put Mr. Clean to shame.

There does seem to be a lot of animosity from the gay community towards bisexuals. Why do you suppose that is?
Bisexuals have a reputation (true or not) of "going off with the enemy" - that is, deciding halfway through a relationship they want some knobbly/holey bits you don't happen to have.

Bisexuals have a reputation (true or not) of "going off with the enemy" - that is, deciding halfway through a relationship they want some knobbly/holey bits you don't happen to have.
In my experience, that is a myth. All the bi's I've ever met are just as faithful as everyone else.

This either or thing sounds a little funny. So if you're a man and have sex with men on occaison but feel mostly attracted to women, your actually straight? I mean, I doubt many people feel aroused when looking at pictures of hands, but hand sex is the most common sex of all.

This might sounds silly, but I suggest we define bisexual as someone who has sex with men and women and then find out how common these people are by questionaire. I know that questionaires are not as accurate as observations, but observational studies might be a little hard. (Or very hard in some instances.)

In my experience, that is a myth. All the bi's I've ever met are just as faithful as everyone else.
Yeah, I bloody well hope so. My boyfriend is bi.

Yeah, I bloody well hope so. My boyfriend is bi.
As am I ... 2 years with a woman now and 2 years with a man before that ... stable as any 22 year olds I have met

There does seem to be a lot of animosity from the gay community towards bisexuals. Why do you suppose that is?It's a human tendency to arbitarily create in groups and out groups and then use fear of the out group to obtain power and status in the in group. People who straddle the artifical divide threaten to the ability of high status people to control the in group through fear of the out group. Basic politics. Same in chess clubs, sporting groups, school, etc.

It's a human tendency to arbitarily create in groups and out groups and then use fear of the out group to obtain power and status in the in group. People who straddle the artifical divide threaten to the ability of high status people to control the in group through fear of the out group. Basic politics.
Good description ... add that to the feeling that they not only have to be worried about loosing us to one sex but both and I think we have most of the answer

The conclusion I've come to recently is this: Many to most guys who claim to be bisexual are actually gay, and many to most girls who claim to be bisexual are actually straight, which makes it a real bitch for the people who actually ARE bi because people are so used to dismissing and being right about it. And I'm sorry to be one of those straight girls who went spouting bisexuality.

Jaded high schooler comments aside, though, I'd say that's a very interesting study. I think that it's important to recognize nonphysical aspects of attraction. Unlike most of the people I know, I can't start liking someone just because they're cute. I have to have some social contact with them, even if brief, to get a sense of their personality and how they interact with me. Really, the physical attraction comes last. Depending on the situation I may be drawn to them visually, but often our first meeting is attributable to something entirely different. Then getting to know them, if it's someone relevant to my example, they're interesting enough that I get a crush (emotional & intellectual attraction) on them, which makes me want to get to know them even more and do things together, which sustains the intellectual attraction and builds emotional attraction much higher, if I succeed and don't have a reason to avoid liking them. Then after all that when the emotional part is high, then the physical component kicks in. And of course occasionally I don't get a crush on them initially, instead I just make a friend and then months later suddenly feel attracted to them. Anyway, in other words, there's way more than just blood flow to the genitals that goes on - and you can still greatly enjoy and crave other physical contact as well. It's just such a limited thing they're testing.

I would agree, however, that there are more female bisexuals than males. In many walks of life I find the females I meet to be more moderate and the males to gravitate toward extremes. Most of my straight girl friends will still admit it would be fun to do stuff with another girl, but just find the romantic element lacking - and many of the lesbians I know wouldn't be too opposed to a guy. On the other hand, almost all the guys I know sum it up in the words "<nonpreferred genital>s are so gross" followed by a shudder.

As am I ... 2 years with a woman now and 2 years with a man before that ... stable as any 22 year olds I have met
Well, I have something of a curious pervertion when it comes to bisexuals. That is, I'd rather go out with a bisexual than with a "complete" gay. I think it's something to do with me prefering "manly" men - and bisexuals are generally more masculine (yes, I know I'm conforming to stereotypes here - I, myself don't conform to the typical "gay queen" stereotype.) I've dated three bisexuals in the past. Two were faithful, one was an arsehole, all were difficult to get over in the end. This is three times as many gay boyfriends I've had, which is a fairly odd ratio, you must admit, when bisexual males are actually (in my experience) rarer than bisexual females. One thing I have noticed however, is that bisexuals tend to be highly emotive people. By this I mean they tend to be in touch with both their own and others' feelings, and I think this is one of the major reasons I find them so attractive. Gay guys have a habit of being excessively fickle (I know, I know, stereotypes) - bisexuals, perhaps less so.

This might sounds silly, but I suggest we define bisexual as someone who has sex with men and women and then find out how common these people are by questionaire.

It's not silly, but it wouldn't work either. I'd turn out asexual by your measures, but I'm definitely not. Also, what about people who are gay but have sexual relationships with the opposite sex to cover up? Or suppose you have a teenager who banged someone at a party, drunk, but then has had several deep and emotional relationships since that didn't reach the sexual stage. It has to be defined by attraction. Which of course, is what we're trying to define, but just who you have sex with doesn't determine orientation.

Well, I have something of a curious pervertion when it comes to bisexuals. That is, I'd rather go out with a bisexual than with a "complete" gay. I think it's something to do with me prefering "manly" men - and bisexuals are generally more masculine (yes, I know I'm conforming to stereotypes here - I, myself don't conform to the typical "gay queen" stereotype.) I've dated three bisexuals in the past. Two were faithful, one was an arsehole, all were difficult to get over in the end. This is three times as many gay boyfriends I've had, which is a fairly odd ratio, you must admit, when bisexual males are actually (in my experience) rarer than bisexual females. One thing I have noticed however, is that bisexuals tend to be highly emotive people. By this I mean they tend to be in touch with both their own and others' feelings, and I think this is one of the major reasons I find them so attractive. Gay guys have a habit of being excessively fickle (I know, I know, stereotypes) - bisexuals, perhaps less so.

Yeah agreed ... and like zincite said overall I see a more tendancy for guys to be the more extreems either very hetro or very gay

extremes dont attract me ... I dont want someone to be a testostoroned up jeark nor do I want them to be over the top the other way ... I like the middle ground myself as well

There does seem to be a lot of animosity from the gay community towards bisexuals. Why do you suppose that is?

I can tell you why that is. Lemme get a glass of something. Hang on. Okay. Rum, coconut and pineapple juice. Perfect.

The reason gays hate bisexuals is that they see someone who has not declared themselves one way or another, as being either gay or straight, as being untruthful - for example, a heterosexually-married bisexual man is persona non grata in the gay community because he has an ongoing, loving relationship with a woman, which presupposes that his extra-marital involvement with other men is by necessity a 'dirty little secret' or somesuch.

This of course, is complete and utter bilge. What people are, who they are, who they want to get it on with and why are all questions that could be discussed from sun up til sundown, and you'd not be one bit closer to an answer. Everybody is different.

What I think is really going on is that a large number of the young, openly gay men are still working out some essential issues about their own proclivities and lifestyle choices, and are choosing to lash out at those within the community (however much bisexuals may or may not be at the edges of that community) who they feel are not adequately mirroring their particular patterns of behaviour. Much like insects purging the hive of perceived imperfections.

I don't understand why it is that people feel such a crushing need to place limits on themselves, and rigidly live an either/or existence. It's only plumbing, folks. Nothing to get bent out of shape over.

Of course, I'm just another one of those damn bi married TG people - what the Hell do I know?

Or, we fall in love with a person, not their jiggly bits.
What does arousal have to do with love in the long run?

Or, we fall in love with a person, not their jiggly bits.
What does arousal have to do with love in the long run?
Something hopefully... Would be a shame otherwise, wouldn't it?

There does seem to be a lot of animosity from the gay community towards bisexuals. Why do you suppose that is?

From a gay point of view its like this:
Guy-A meets Guy-B. Guy-B tells Guy-A he is Bi and is seeing a woman. Guy-A is uncertin of where the relationship will lead. Paranoia sets in. Will Guy-B maintain his bisexuality, is it just a phase just as Guy-A's bi phase, or is it all just for fun? If it is just a phase which side will Guy-B end up with? Will Guy-B wake up one morning and decide to go straight? Will Guy-B have a biological urge to sire offspring and leave Guy-A for the woman. If it is for fun, how far will the relationship go? Will there be intimacy or just sex? Does Guy-B want a relationship or just to experiment? What if there is no woman, but one day there is, what will Guy-B do with Guy-A? How serious can the relationship get between the two guys; after all Guy-B can't pick a gender to stick with so how long will Guy-B stay in a relationship? Is the relationship monogamous? Is Guy-A understanding of Guy-B's desires, and willing to let Guy-B date women? Can Guy-A date another man since Guy-B dates a woman? So many uncertainties.

Vice-versa for the woman.

I guess in "Sexuality's 'Cold War'" bisexuals are seen as untrustworthy double agents by both hetero and homo.

I don't think bi gay or straight are too relevant, or won't be in the not-so-distant future. Look, you should be with whoever makes you happy, man or woman. No matter who you are.

Personally, I'm a straight male. But that depends. If you would classify "bisexual" as just be willing to have sex with both sexes, I'd probably be bi. I mean, I get turned on like most guys when I see a naked girl, especially if she's looking sexy. And I mean, sometimes I get turned on but not super sexy girls too... But, if I see a naked guy, I can't really stop the feeling of arrousal. It kind of turns me on too, Ya know? I can't help that. I could probably fantasize about a very good looking guy as much as I could about a good looking girl.

HOWEVER I don't see myself marrying a guy, and I've never had feelings for a guy. When I think about marriage and happiness and who I want to spend my life with, I always think about a girl. A specific girl actually.. But that's beside the point. True love for me is a feeling I have for a girl... not a guy. In the serious world and true love and all that, I'd be with a girl, and I'd be perfectly happy with her. But if this world wasn't so serious, and life was more about having fun and all that, I wouldn't so no to a guy.

From a gay point of view its like this:

*merciful snippage*

So many uncertainties.

I guess in "Sexuality's 'Cold War'" bisexuals are seen as untrustworthy double agents by both hetero and homo.

And this is why gay people don't invite me to their parties more often. Frankly, I find both the straight and gay communities all rather milquetoast and cloying (though in somewhat different ways). Too much useless emphasis on the byzantine nature of relationships, everything written in stone - the dogma and demagoguery can be all just a little too overwhelming.

Feh. Double agent my sweet tranny ass. There's men and women out there who like my action, I could care less what a bunch of conformist pseudo-puritans think of me or my proclivities.

Something hopefully... Would be a shame otherwise, wouldn't it?

Well when one is young there is some point in it, but as a nonfertile, asexual or genetically unsound person, sex means less I think.
The relationships one form can be erotic, romantic or platonic for example.
Why limit yourself to just the combination of erotic-romantic when there are multiple ways of feeling love for one another and commit yourself?

Well when one is young there is some point in it, but as a nonfertile, asexual or genetically unsound person, sex means less I think.
The relationships one form can be erotic, romantic or platonic for example.
Why limit yourself to just the combination of erotic-romantic when there are multiple ways of feeling love for one another and commit yourself?
Have you ever been totally, utterly, vompletely and hoplessly in love with someone? Were you in a relationship with the guy/gal? Did you - just once - have great sex with him/her?

If the answer is yes to all three, then I can't comprehend where you're comming from. I never will. Platonic love is all good, but there's nothing like having a great shag with someone you truely love. Nothing. I'd give my right arm for it right now. Romantic love isn't limiting oneself. Platonic relationships is.

If the answer is no, I can assure you that - barring having a kid maybe - the greatest experience of your life is still ahead of you :)

Have you ever been totally, utterly, vompletely and hoplessly in love with someone? Were you in a relationship with the guy/gal? Did you - just once - have great sex with him/her?

If the answer is yes to all three, then I can't comprehend where you're comming from. I never will. Platonic love is all good, but there's nothing like having a great shag with someone you truely love. Nothing. I'd give my right arm for it right now. Romantic love isn't limiting oneself. Platonic relationships is.

If the answer is no, I can assure you that - barring having a kid maybe - the greatest experience of your life is still ahead of you :)

Sex is not that big a deal for me, sure it is nice, but the thing that makes me happy is to be close to the one I love.
I think that love is great in every form, when I love someone the main wish is that that person will be happy and feel loved. I am right between bisexual and asexual.

One thing I have noticed however, is that bisexuals tend to be highly emotive people.
Well cant say so. I just happen to like having a romp with everyone i find attractive. This doesnt define me and i dont think it influences my behaviour patterns, most take me for straight and i dont care. Each to their own, but i cant follow the study. To be honest, i feel a bit more attracted to women, but if it didnt arouse me, why would i have sex with men? Why do i get hard with someone i do not want, according to the study? Sorry, but i dont buy.

The conclusion I've come to recently is this: Many to most guys who claim to be bisexual are actually gay, and many to most girls who claim to be bisexual are actually straight, which makes it a real bitch for the people who actually ARE bi because people are so used to dismissing and being right about it. And I'm sorry to be one of those straight girls who went spouting bisexuality.

Jaded high schooler comments aside, though, I'd say that's a very interesting study. I think that it's important to recognize nonphysical aspects of attraction. Unlike most of the people I know, I can't start liking someone just because they're cute. I have to have some social contact with them, even if brief, to get a sense of their personality and how they interact with me. Really, the physical attraction comes last. Depending on the situation I may be drawn to them visually, but often our first meeting is attributable to something entirely different. Then getting to know them, if it's someone relevant to my example, they're interesting enough that I get a crush (emotional & intellectual attraction) on them, which makes me want to get to know them even more and do things together, which sustains the intellectual attraction and builds emotional attraction much higher, if I succeed and don't have a reason to avoid liking them. Then after all that when the emotional part is high, then the physical component kicks in. And of course occasionally I don't get a crush on them initially, instead I just make a friend and then months later suddenly feel attracted to them. Anyway, in other words, there's way more than just blood flow to the genitals that goes on - and you can still greatly enjoy and crave other physical contact as well. It's just such a limited thing they're testing.

I would agree, however, that there are more female bisexuals than males. In many walks of life I find the females I meet to be more moderate and the males to gravitate toward extremes. Most of my straight girl friends will still admit it would be fun to do stuff with another girl, but just find the romantic element lacking - and many of the lesbians I know wouldn't be too opposed to a guy. On the other hand, almost all the guys I know sum it up in the words "<nonpreferred genital>s are so gross" followed by a shudder.

And that seems to be the concusion of the study.

So, apparently, bisexuality in men is nonexistant, and bisexuality in women is the norm? Well, I can't say that I'm surprised by these results, but I am somewhat skeptical of them.