NationStates Jolt Archive

When I went to elementary school, we had a great music and art program. We had lots of time for phys ed, and managed to fit in all our other subjects too. We learned a bit about gardening, we had lots of fieldtrips. Yet, it seems that all these things are being cut in our schools now. We are more pressed for time, yet we seem to actually get less done (speaking as a teacher). Imagine that you could design your own school (for yourself or your children). What courses would you want to see? What courses would best 'educate' you or your children?

World history, for one.

I think they should teach as much as possible, and choice should be widely featured in education. Education pays off more if people want to be learning

To read, to write, math and to think for yourself. The rest you don't need school for. :eek:
There are some things, languages, philosophy, where discussion groups are useful though, so you could include these.

Writing and Spelling and Grammar, Math, Science, and the Arts. Screw History.

Astrology. ;)

Real astrology, not the silly fortune-telling you see on television, or read about in the newspaper columns.

There are some things, languages, philosophy, where discussion groups are useful though, so you could include these.
In Elementary school? :D

Writing and Spelling and Grammar, Math, Science, and the Arts. Screw History.

No, do not screw history. If you want a bunch of ignorant racists who have no respect for the world, get rid of it. Its with understanding that we end hatred.

- Art. Real art, not just 'crafts'. Drawing, painting, sculpting etc.

- Music. Studies have shown that musical instruction increases mathematical ability, and frankly it stuns me that most people don't play SOME sort of instrument...:)

- Language Arts: phonetics, grammar AND creative reading/writing. Not just one, but all of these things, so that we can hit all the learning styles.

-Math/Science: definitely good.

-Social Studies: should include geography. It drives me nuts that most kids can't find their home on a map. And as for the adults in the same boat...*sigh* More world history instead of just focusing on regional history.

-A second language. So many reasons to learn one, aside from the education benefits including increased fluency in English (as you solidify grammatical structures in the other language), etc.

- Physical Education/Health: it should not focus all on team sports. So many kids hate team sports...yet still need to be physically active. I'd like to see more time for phys ed, and more focus on fitness and health overall.

Writing and Spelling and Grammar, Math, Science, and the Arts. Screw History.

Im guessing that you're not one who values the philosophy of, "those who are ignorant of history are condemed to repeat its mistakes". And its quite amusing how you would place arts above history. Please enlighten me on why you think history is so insignificant?

Im guessing that you're not one who values the philosophy of, "those who are ignorant of history are condemed to repeat its mistakes". And its quite amusing how you would place arts above history. Please enlighten me on why you think history is so insignificant?
Simple. What is in the past is in the past. It's not exactly like we have a time machine and we can go back and change it. Our time is much better spent on the issues of today, on our own happiness and on the happiness of others.

LATIN, LATIN, LATIN and did I mention Latin

- Art. Real art, not just 'crafts'. Drawing, painting, sculpting etc.

- Music. Studies have shown that musical instruction increases mathematical ability, and frankly it stuns me that most people don't play SOME sort of instrument...:)

- Language Arts: phonetics, grammar AND creative reading/writing. Not just one, but all of these things, so that we can hit all the learning styles.

-Math/Science: definitely good.

-Social Studies: should include geography. It drives me nuts that most kids can't find their home on a map. And as for the adults in the same boat...*sigh* More world history instead of just focusing on regional history.

-A second language. So many reasons to learn one, aside from the education benefits including increased fluency in English (as you solidify grammatical structures in the other language), etc.

- Physical Education/Health: it should not focus all on team sports. So many kids hate team sports...yet still need to be physically active. I'd like to see more time for phys ed, and more focus on fitness and health overall.

I agree fully, yet on the other hand Alien Born has a good point and I wonder if I don't agree with you simply because that's how it was when I was a kid.

Many of those other classes, like physical education and social studies, seemed unnecessary and I always considered them "electives." What's the point in making people memorize maps? Particularly when people are not going to memorize something just because you make it part of the curriculum. They'll just cheat or whatever and still not be able to read maps 10 years later cuz they don't care.

Teaching people how to gain knowledge is more along the "teach a man to fish" route and seems like the more important thing rather than feeding them specific knowledge (or trivia) which is considered important by you.

Simple. What is in the past is in the past. It's not exactly like we have a time machine and we can go back and change it. Our time is much better spent on the issues of today, on our own happiness and on the happiness of others.

So what you are saying is we should forget about the holocaust? We should forget about the purges of Stalin? You are a fool to be honest.

Screw History.

yeah, who needs to know about the holocaust, or stalins gulags? lets just let neo nazis and stalinists gloss over those bits shall we?

or not, pehaps.

Simple. What is in the past is in the past. It's not exactly like we have a time machine and we can go back and change it. Our time is much better spent on the issues of today, on our own happiness and on the happiness of others.
How can you really understand the issues of today if you have no inkling of the events that shaped these present events?

In Elementary school? :D

Yes. And I am not joking.

So what you are saying is we should forget about the holocaust? We should forget about the purges of Stalin? You are a fool to be honest.
YES, PLEASE! If I see another damn WWII book become a bestseller, I swear, I'll scream!

How can you really understand the issues of today if you have no inkling of the events that shaped these present events?

My old history teacher believed you cant understand much without knowing the roots of about 25 years at least. I think thats fair enough

Grades 1 - 6

Basic Maths
Primary Language
Foreign/Second Language
Biology
Basic Astronomy
Art
Local/National History
Local/National Geography
Ancient History
Mythology/Comparitive mythology
Athletics

Grades 7 - 9

Physics
Geometry
Algebra
Computer Science
Primary Language
Foreign/Second/Other Language
Basic Astronomy
Biology
Art
Art History
Ancient/Medieval History
National/International/Foreign History
National/International/Foreign Geography
Basic Economics
Basic Sociology

Grades 10 - 13

Advanced Maths
Computer Science
Primary Language
Applied/Creative Writing
Foreign/Second/Other Language
Economics
Sociology
Philosophy/Ethics
Political Science
Contemporary World History
Comparitive Theology
Experimental Art
Illustration/Painting
Graphic Design
Astronomy
Cosmology
Theoretical Physics


...and of course, various shop classes. That's it, more or less. I mighta left out one or two things. I'm reasonably happy with this, though.

Definitely get rid of gym class somewhere along the line, though. It's unfair to the pudgy smart ones who try their best to shoot hoops, but just have no hope of measuring up (story of my life at school).

YES, PLEASE! If I see another damn WWII book become a bestseller, I swear, I'll scream!

Oh yeah, because thats really harming you isnt it. Who the hell are you, Stephen King?

I agree fully, yet on the other hand Alien Born has a good point and I wonder if I don't agree with you simply because that's how it was when I was a kid.

Ditto. I'm just recreating my own education:) Yet, how do you teach someone to think for themselves? That doesn't happen in a vacume. And for many, if not most people, their educational opportunities are limited to what the schools offer.

I would say

50% of pure academics class to give some basis to learn more: math, science, language (plus a foreign one).

20% of more social science to develop critic thinking: geography, history, economy.

10% of usefull thing for your futur life: legal system, cooking, crafting

10% of art to develop creativity: painting, music, drama.

10% of physical education to keep kids healthy and give them a break.

Simple. What is in the past is in the past. It's not exactly like we have a time machine and we can go back and change it. Our time is much better spent on the issues of today, on our own happiness and on the happiness of others.

So people should never know of the horrors of Hitler's Thrid Reich, or the violent purges of Stalin's Russia? Im afraid it is very important to have a good knowledge of the past. Personally it is unfathomable to me how you can even think this. While it would be nice if we could ignore all the suffering of the world and live in our powered, and watered castles in suburbia while extremists blow themselves up for religion and how millions starve in the world while we stuff our fat faces full of fast food manufactured in the good ole' US of A. And would'nt it occur to you that the problems that plague our world today are becuase people havent learned from the past? After two world wars and numerous genocides you would think that we would have learned from our mistakes already. But obviously we havent. If we had we wouldnt have the problems we have now.

Simple. What is in the past is in the past. It's not exactly like we have a time machine and we can go back and change it. Our time is much better spent on the issues of today, on our own happiness and on the happiness of others.

i realise my point has been made several times. still, ill answer this bit instead.

knowing as we do that nazis, stalinists and fascists have a love for killing based on our past knowledge, and you are suggesting getting rid of that, how do you intend to oppose totalitarian swine coming to power (as they could pretend to be paternalistic and be more attractive, even as dodgy totalitarian outfits) and screwing up your carefully planned happiness ideas? a new holocaust might screw up certain peoples happiness.

though we should be taught something other than nazism for history, please. ive been learning about them for 6 damn years, and idlike to learn something else. like how britain invented concentration camps for use against the boers, or the american settlers treatment of native americans. or, vastly preferable, the spanish civil war.

Simple. What is in the past is in the past. It's not exactly like we have a time machine and we can go back and change it. Our time is much better spent on the issues of today, on our own happiness and on the happiness of others.
How can someone defend the arts but not history? Should we toss all previous works of art in the trash because "we can('t) go back and change it)"?

I'd like to see some real world history. Not "Slightly more spread out US history". Everything in my world history textbook is relative to the united states. Japan didn't exist till it invaded Manchuria. Chiang didn't exist untill he fought the Japanese. Greece was swallowed up into a blackhole when we started counting years in the A.D. never to be heard from again.

I'd like to see the works of the great political thinkers also taught in a seperate course. Mussolini, Salazar, Franco, Bismark etc.

Teaching people how to gain knowledge is more along the "teach a man to fish" route and seems like the more important thing rather than feeding them specific knowledge (or trivia) which is considered important by you.
Granted. Much of the 'old style' of teaching was teaching by rote. And who remembers when the battle of this or that was? Who cares, when you can look it up on the internet if you really need to know? But you can't teach a man to fish by putting him an empty room with no fishing pole, no water and no fish. Not really.

You can teach 'facts' in the context of skill building. Don't have kids memorize maps...teach them how to read maps, how to draw maps, about the biases that creep into cartography. Don't teach kids just the names of shapes...have them build them, figure out what shapes work best for what things...don't teach kids about battles and famous people as though that knowledge alone is enough. Help them draw connections to how things are now...let them see that history is both static and dynamic...that life has not always been this way, nor will it always remain thus. I see 'classes' as 'themes' for critical thinking.

And phys ed? It could be a very valuable thing if it weren't so underfunded and based on team sports above all.

i realise my point has been made several times. still, ill answer this bit instead.

knowing as we do that nazis, stalinists and fascists have a love for killing based on our past knowledge, and you are suggesting getting rid of that, how do you intend to oppose totalitarian swine coming to power (as they could pretend to be paternalistic and be more attractive, even as dodgy totalitarian outfits) and screwing up your carefully planned happiness ideas? a new holocaust might screw up certain peoples happiness.

though we should be taught something other than nazism for history, please. ive been learning about them for 6 damn years, and idlike to learn something else. like how britain invented concentration camps for use against the boers, or the american settlers treatment of native americans. or, vastly preferable, the spanish civil war.

Very good points. Take the BNP for example - Because of our knowledge of history, the BNP were broken and had anti-campaigners almost as quick as we had a BNP. However I also agree with the teaching thing - I hate Nazi History, too damn repetitive. They wont do boer war because we arent proud of it, I did do the American West and I will do Spanish Civil War/Fascist Spain in uni :)

knowing as we do that nazis, stalinists and fascists have a love for killing based on our past knowledge
Apparently someones past knowledge is failing. Since when did Fascists become murderers :rolleyes:

Yes. And I am not joking.
Sweet...I hope you'd use age appropriate language for these discussion groups so as not to scare the kids away though ;)

Apparently someones past knowledge is failing. Since when did Fascists become murderers :rolleyes:

When fascist got confused with Nazi lol. Typical historical ignorance...and some people were debating removing history???

Ditto. I'm just recreating my own education:) Yet, how do you teach someone to think for themselves? That doesn't happen in a vacume. And for many, if not most people, their educational opportunities are limited to what the schools offer.

I'm not sure how to teach that specifically. But, it's definitely important, as the days of libraries and books and places of nonspecialized learning are numbered! Behold, the internet! Behold, wikipedia! Behold, google! One day all the knowledge of the human race will be online and within a few keystrokes access. Without knowing how to think for themselves, kids will (and are) wander(ing) this intellectual mindfield, picking up who knows what ideas, like a ship without a compass! Or a helm. Ships need direction, and they need guidance, and the same is true of even the rotting rafts 21st century children call their brains. All the more so because they are tomorrow's voters, or more likely tomorrow's too apathetic to exercise political power by voting!

It's unfair to the pudgy smart ones who try their best to shoot hoops, but just have no hope of measuring up (story of my life at school).
Agreed. But there should be phys ed for those who prefer individual activity, and don't want to 'compete' (re: be made to look like a fool) Fitness, not 'competence'.

How can you really understand the issues of today if you have no inkling of the events that shaped these present events?

I agree, but that is not what history classes are like (at least in Germany). Here we still focus much to much on simply learning facts (and dates). But what is that good for? Is it really so important to know exactly what happened when? If you don't know, you can look it up. I strongly support that all pupils should have a rough understanding of what shaped today's world, but history classes are more like: I'll learn the dates and facts for the exam and will forget them then. That is definitely worthless.

Agreed. But there should be phys ed for those who prefer individual activity, and don't want to 'compete' (re: be made to look like a fool) Fitness, not 'competence'.

Yes, we cant get rid of PE for those who dont want it as the ones who dont want it are often unfit/overweight etc.

Apparently someones past knowledge is failing. Since when did Fascists become murderers :rolleyes:
There are people in every group of -ists that are murderers.

I agree, but that is not what history classes are like (at least in Germany). Here we still focus much to much on simply learning facts (and dates). But what is that good for? Is it really so important to know exactly what happened when? If you don't know, you can look it up. I strongly support that all pupils should have a rough understanding of what shaped today's world, but history classes are more like: I'll learn the dates and facts for the exam and will forget them then. That is definitely worthless.

Well in England our history is far more based on analysis rather than factual knowledge. Learning facts doesnt really work

There are people in every group of -ists that are murderers.

Pacifists? :D
Sorry, couldnt help but be pedantic

I agree, but that is not what history classes are like (at least in Germany). Here we still focus much to much on simply learning facts (and dates). But what is that good for? Is it really so important to know exactly what happened when? If you don't know, you can look it up. I strongly support that all pupils should have a rough understanding of what shaped today's world, but history classes are more like: I'll learn the dates and facts for the exam and will forget them then. That is definitely worthless.
I completely agree that learning dates and names is pretty futile. But you can teach general trends, and those often stick with students. I hate how compartimentalised history is in schools. It wasn't until University that I realised Napoleon was doing his thing at the same time as this that and the other thing...we should be teaching human history in terms of generalities first, with some more in depth, specific 'zooming in' examples when relevant. As in "When Mali was an Empire in Africa, Europe was...and Asia was...etc"

Astrology. ;)

Real astrology, not the silly fortune-telling you see on television, or read about in the newspaper columns.

Astrology? I'd thought Astronomy. Better to know about your closest stellar neighbours than to know the zodiac, imo.

Granted. Much of the 'old style' of teaching was teaching by rote. And who remembers when the battle of this or that was? Who cares, when you can look it up on the internet if you really need to know? But you can't teach a man to fish by putting him an empty room with no fishing pole, no water and no fish. Not really.

You can teach 'facts' in the context of skill building. Don't have kids memorize maps...teach them how to read maps, how to draw maps, about the biases that creep into cartography. Don't teach kids just the names of shapes...have them build them, figure out what shapes work best for what things...don't teach kids about battles and famous people as though that knowledge alone is enough. Help them draw connections to how things are now...let them see that history is both static and dynamic...that life has not always been this way, nor will it always remain thus. I see 'classes' as 'themes' for critical thinking.

I agree, but this conceptualized way of teaching (while IMO very effective) is still largely not very widespread, so it is as a minority often seen as "flaky" or silly since it's not as seemingly straightforward (and un-challenging) as the traditional method by rote.


And phys ed? It could be a very valuable thing if it weren't so underfunded and based on team sports above all.

Yeah, most schools seem to treat it as a psychological function, to let kids work off their hormones as a way of venting or something. I've always thought this is sound thinking; if schools are there to provide psychological relief etc, why not have brothel-attendance class too? Or for those concerned with STDs, wank class. And hot-tubs and a glass of wine at lunch. We'll see how rebellious kids are when they get free sex, liquor and hot tubs. :) But school is not about quelling rebellion or venting psychologically, it's about learnin'.

Yes, we cant get rid of PE for those who dont want it as the ones who dont want it are often unfit/overweight etc.
I managed to get out of gym class by joining a weight lifting club at the school, boxing outside of school (an anger management strategy that served me well:) and by my involvement in fancy dancing (pow wow dancing). I got credit, I got fit, and I stopped hating exercise.

Pacifists? :D
Sorry, couldnt help but be pedantic
Yeah sure, I suppose:) Of course, once they murder, they're kicked out of the club!

When fascist got confused with Nazi lol. Typical historical ignorance
Holy crap! A socialist who knows the difference! Now theres a refreshing sight! I tip my hat to you sir.

Holy crap! A socialist who knows the difference! Now theres a refreshing sight! I tip my hat to you sir.

Dont worry, I'm not exactly one of the ignorant commies you get around here, I'm just a bit of a leftie. I actually respect Mussolini as one of the greatest political leaders. I dont believe in his ideology, but you have to respect a man who can find what they want and take it while getting the nation to give it willingly! Bush should take a leaf out of his book for the crap hes up to.

Aside from the obvious arts and sciences, any compulsory public education should include skilled labor courses. Whether it's computers or auto-mechanics, a person should not graduate high school unless they can find an entry level job in some field that will help pay for their higher education.

Well I think that most of education should go towards math and science and maybe even business, then there should be english(not literature just basic reading and writing skills), after that there should be social studies that focuses on critical thinking(such as philosophy and maybe a few of the basics thrown in), finally there should be exercise based on military training techniques(so that you can serve the armed forces).

Aside from the obvious arts and sciences, any compulsory public education should include skilled labor courses. Whether it's computers or auto-mechanics, a person should not graduate high school unless they can find an entry level job in some field that will help pay for their higher education.

I agree with the labour stuff, but not about education. If I won the lottery I would go to uni for the fun and for the sake of education. Its not all about jobs, that has to be realised.

1 - lots of literature stuff, 99% of it student selected.
2 - history, overview and student selected topics.
3 - discussion, on student selected topics.
4 - career/arts/life skills studies (advanced math, cooking, woodwork, mechanics, drama, sciences, ect)
mini classes that are mandatory - ie, sexed, drug awareness,

My bone of contention with Gym class stems from having my 90+ average ruined by a 50% passing grade in Gym. Though I attended every last humiliating period of Gym class, though I knew how terribly awkward and odd I looked, as a person of more-than-somewhat indeterminite gender, I nonetheless soldiered on in the mistaken belief that one's personal best accounted for more than a universally-proscribed government evaluation sheet.

I was wrong, and all that time and effort came to naught. Incensed by this, I paid several visits to my guidance counsellor and demanded either a change in the evaluation policies, or the right to choose an elective slotted into the same period. They allowed the latter. I honestly think the former was beyond the ability of the Gym teacher in question.

So, did I regret opting out of Gym? Nope. Not in the least. It was interesting seeing my athletically-oriented friends grow up to be hyper-aggressive, overly-competitive and incredibly narcissistic individuals, though. Very instructive.

Aside from the obvious arts and sciences, any compulsory public education should include skilled labor courses. Whether it's computers or auto-mechanics, a person should not graduate high school unless they can find an entry level job in some field that will help pay for their higher education.

Well, I do not really want to take skilled labor courses(unless you are talking about a technology credit). I personally want to select courses to help make me a better student, after all some people do not have to pay for their own college(really smart people and those who have parents who will pay for it). I think that a suggestion of labor courses might be alright but to order them would not be very good for the college-bound who wish to take full high-school loads anyway.

At the primary level and in order of importance: reading, writing, math, geography, and some basic history. Throw in some art and music along with career exploration and science.

Leave everything else out.

Elementary...

Reading/Writing
Math
Nature Studies (environment/animals/plants/basic science)
Arts (helps develop creativity and imagination)
Social Studies (interaction with others. how to "Play Nicely")
PE. (We need to excercise more.)
Typing (in this age, it's a useful skill.)

Sweet...I hope you'd use age appropriate language for these discussion groups so as not to scare the kids away though ;)

Of course I would. Philosophy classes are not about complex names or obscuranist jargon for inconceivable ideas. They are about learning to challenge your assumptions. Kids, up to the age of 12 or so are very good at this if they are encouraged. After that they just challenge everything anyway, so no more lessons are needed.

assassination

Flag worship.

Obedience.

Distrust of others.

and other values.

Flag worship.

Obedience.

Distrust of others.

and other values."The Cat-Tribe is your Friend... The Cat-Tribe only wants what is good for you... you can always trust in The Cat-Tribe..."

actually, with a good tune, that might make a spiffy Alma Mater... :D

Physics should start in grade school. Every other science class depends on an understanding of physics.

Flag worship.

Obedience.

Distrust of others.

and other values.

Declaration of war

Torture of terrorists :rolleyes:

Athletics

change it to something else. carer exploration? other than that perfect.

When I went to elementary school, we had a great music and art program. We had lots of time for phys ed, and managed to fit in all our other subjects too. We learned a bit about gardening, we had lots of fieldtrips. Yet, it seems that all these things are being cut in our schools now. We are more pressed for time, yet we seem to actually get less done (speaking as a teacher). Imagine that you could design your own school (for yourself or your children). What courses would you want to see? What courses would best 'educate' you or your children?
For a nrmal school in my country:
Math, Icelandic, German, Norwegian, English, Political Science, Icelandic History, European History, American History, World History, Social Science, Psychology, Economics, Media Studies, Geologie, Geography, Chemistry, Physical Education, International Law, Fish Studies, Farming Studies, Defence Studies, Flight Studies...the list goes on...
From age 6 to 18.
Half would be selective.

"The Cat-Tribe is your Friend... The Cat-Tribe only wants what is good for you... you can always trust in The Cat-Tribe..."

actually, with a good tune, that might make a spiffy Alma Mater... :D
Hmm... maybe with a techno backbeat? I could see it. ;) (sorry, Cat, couldn't resist)

For my list for secondary schooling (hey, it's what I do):

English language arts, reading, various forms of writing, speech, drama, and, most importantly, interpritation. Variations to include novel, journalism, and others (two years basic, two years choice)

Math, various levels dependant upon student ability. Variations include buisness, shop math, and others

Science, all branches, including applied

History, world, US (including state), civics, and modern day events (including debate, watch out General, I'm sending my students after you. ;) ). Also includes geography.

Second language (and try for more than just Spanish, French, and German).

Computer literacy/research

Home ec and shop career course work

PE, healthy minds AND bodies

Edit: I can't believe I forgot music and art! Sorry.

Community invlovement, this course could be things such as civics projects, job shadowing, volenteer activities, and others.

Opposite of what my school teaches. They cancelled Middle School Spanish, and that's just one example of what they've done.

Writing and Spelling and Grammar, Math, Science, and the Arts. Screw History.

Those who are ignorant of the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them. It is also no coincidence that some of the greatest leaders had advanced knowledge of history - most notably Churchill, who was a historian as he published many historical works throughout his life time. Napoleon is another example.

What would I teach in schools? Well I can only speak for the UK but:

History This requires dramatic reform in this country because it neglects British history in favour of obscure and fairly irrelevant branches World History (e.g. Medicine Through Time, The American Civil War, Ancient Rome). Also there is far too much emphasis on the 20th Century and this is due to the fact that history teachers tend to specialise heavily in 20th Century History (2 out of 4 of my A-Level History teachers were specialists on 1930s Germany and the Vietnam conflict respectively). I think the syllabus for the first three years of senior school should be:

1. Feudal England/Tudor England
2. The English Civil War/The 1688 Revolution
3. The Industrial Revolution/The British Empire

Then at GCSE teach World War One and World War Two. The A-Levels can be left alone (I did not do a single 20th Century module for my A-level).

Sport Never been a fan of it myself and I know many who disliked it. I think this should be made optional from the very start of senior school (age 11 in other words)

Foreign Language This should be taught to children as soon as possible, rather than starting at the age of 11.

Music I always disliked this subject as a child and I cannot play any musical instruments, which I deeply regret and am intending to amend by going for piano tutition in the next few weeks. Alas music is treated like a joke by far too many senior schools - in our school, those who could not already play an instrument were not helped at all by the music lessons. I also feel that a greater study of musical history and theory would be better.

Science Science in this country is suffering, badly. It is becoming so unpopular that universites are being forced to close science departments through lack of interest. The simple fact is that science is taught in a very boring way throughout compulsory education.

Maths This is suffering the same problem as Science. Maths teachers are in very short supply, so much so that the government has offered large bounties to maths graduates.

English Language/Literature The range and diversity of this topic is to be praised. However much of the theory in English Language is ignored and also creative writing is given a back seat.

How can someone defend the arts but not history? Should we toss all previous works of art in the trash because "we can('t) go back and change it)"?

I'd like to see some real world history. Not "Slightly more spread out US history". Everything in my world history textbook is relative to the united states. Japan didn't exist till it invaded Manchuria. Chiang didn't exist untill he fought the Japanese. Greece was swallowed up into a blackhole when we started counting years in the A.D. never to be heard from again.

I'd like to see the works of the great political thinkers also taught in a seperate course. Mussolini, Salazar, Franco, Bismark etc.
Okay, many people disagree with me, and that's okay, I'm not asking them to agree with me at all.

I personally think the Arts are more important than history. The arts provide entertainment and contentment, while history provides boredom and shame. History is, in my opinion, the least useful subject which could ever be taught.

Modern issues are what should be focused on. No, I am not being self-centered, and no, I do not wish history to repeat itself, but I also don't want others to repeat the same subjects of history again and again and again. Recent history and history of specific subjects may be useful, but in general, I think it's a far overrated subject. That is my personal opinion. I will not apologize for it, and I will stand by it.

How can someone defend the arts but not history? Should we toss all previous works of art in the trash because "we can('t) go back and change it)"?

I'd like to see some real world history. Not "Slightly more spread out US history". Everything in my world history textbook is relative to the united states. Japan didn't exist till it invaded Manchuria. Chiang didn't exist untill he fought the Japanese. Greece was swallowed up into a blackhole when we started counting years in the A.D. never to be heard from again.

I'd like to see the works of the great political thinkers also taught in a seperate course. Mussolini, Salazar, Franco, Bismark etc.you realize how much information that is right?

every decade would add another years worth (more or less) to the course of World History.

to cover each countries' COMPLETE history as they were founded would be a college course and not an Elementary Course. requiring YEARS of study... probably Decades. since most historians concentrate only on one period or one region/nation.

My bone of contention with Gym class stems from having my 90+ average ruined by a 50% passing grade in Gym.

In my province, When the averages for honour role, passport to education ( a _little_ grant the govt. gives each year to the top 25% of each grade of highschool student) and others the students worse mark is dropped. They must have been thinking of the nerds who couldn't shoot a basketball, or the science kids who don't have a clue in english.

Physical Education It has to be changed. I did ten years of Basketball, Vollyball, and Badminton. My highschool had a nice policy where on Fridays you were allowed to do what you wanted. If the teachers were a little brighter they would have realized that 75% of the kids were either working out or played floor hockey. Basicly the course needs to be made to fit the students better. Splitting the course into two or three specialized courses would be a nice start. PE is needed because a inactive person cannot learn or think to his/her potential (having student sit on exercise balls instead of regulaer chairs is supposed to make a noticable difference in the students marks and behavior).

Math and the Sciences, I think they are taught in a logical order. They are taught in an extremely boring way though. The physics teacher at my school has solved this problem: relate everything to stuff from the students lives/interests. We went to a Theme Park, we were assigned work. The teacher did some tutorials, gave us work sheet and let us learn in the park. He has one of the best class averages, even though the work is quite hard. Make the sure the student knows why they learn this.

English and Second Language 90% of the course, in my school district, is reading some literature, then agrue when way or another about certain parts (ie was is Banquos death important?) in an essay. Very little time is given to grammer, and how languages work in general. I learned more about the structure of the English language in French. Forign languages need to be started earlier (Grade One or Grade Two). New languages get harder to learn the later you start them and become easier if you know more of them. Scince English is more about reading and paragraph writing, highschools could merge the two languages into one language coarse, giving the student the opritunity of taking another coarse. For all the Canadians here: the Canadiens (Quebecers) might not hate us if we did this.

Socials History in general has a nice lineary flow, starting with early man and Mesopotania then going into Rome and the Middle Ages, followed by the Industrial Revolution and ending with the Victoria Era, Boer War and the World Wars. I think a brief unit on the Cold War is needed because it has powerful influence on todays work (especially Cuba).This is nessesary because when you learn it on the street you get a really biased opinion on Communism. You basicly learn that all Cummunists are Stalinist (like Kim, Castro, and well Stalin), which is as accurate as saying all Facists are Nazis. This can be squeesed into the coarse because alot of time is wasted by teachers reteaching about Hilter (every teacher tries to work it in a lttle). Learning How to read and write a map is more important than memorising maps, which is generally what you find. The teacher should ensure that student know the location of countries/regions that are covered in history.

The Arts Students need to learn to be creative also. It has a surprising effect on your other coarses. Again, the what is learned in this coarse seems to irrelevent when you are learning it. Being able to teach each student to play an instrament would be nice but a quality instrament is quite expensive. In order to have a decent music progrram the school needs private funding and schools in my province are finding staying open five days a week impossible. Drama and Art tend to be more practical to teach, and skills learned in these classes are used allot in other classes.

Applied Skills My school district has almost done an extremely good job here. Each school is capable of teaching each coarse, but each school is specialized in one or two areas. One school has a more developed cafeteria while another has an excellent automative facility while a third is better carpentry classes etc. Some the the schools work with an IT school and offer a Grade 12 coarse that will get you a curtifcate for completion of the first year at the post-secondary level (you have to take alot of Grade 12 coarses in Grade 11 to do it). A great and cheap way to get a head start at a trade. The problem: You are not really made aware of this because the school gets x amount of money for each student and they do not want to lose it.

Career Planning This coarse needs to be expanded. Elemantary Schools should make students feel going to a trade school is as good as going to a university. Many students think that university is the only way to get a high paying job that is secure. You can make good money in a trade and have a stable job (My province is going south to Mexico to import carpenters because not enough people here are trained to do it. They probably make more than the average British Columbian too [not the ones that sell drugs]). Alot of students realize that they would be happier in a trade and end up changing their mind at the last minute. They end up barely able to graduate or grad a year late. Shows you just how important this class is to some peoples futures.

In elementary school typing and general computer knowledge needs to be taugh. DELL and HP wpould like this. Apparantly they get calls about people not being able to find the any key (Homer Simpson isn't the only one) or asking how to work the gas pedal (really the mouse). More importantly, computers are too common for people to be computer illerate.

As a class for Grade 12 students I would like to see a politics coarse. It would cover the nations registered political parties and discribe their policies. It should also cover Ideologies. There are alot of misconceptions that should be cleared up. Finally, the coarse should have a intro to political science.

All of the "standard" subjects (math, science, history, and English literature/language) are certainly necessary. I agree with several other posters that overemphasizing "hard facts" can be a problem - I'd rather see people understand the political forces that led to the American Civil War and not be able to tell me the date of the battle of Appomattox or recite the Gettysburg Address than vice versa.

Music and art deserve far more time and funding than many schools currently allot for them. I also think there should be some changes in how they're taught - for example, I'd love to see the basics of music theory taught in elementary school. I suspect it would be helpful for students on a whole lot of levels.

At least one foreign language should be taught from early childhood on.

As for PE - it has its place. I despised it for every one of the twelve years I had to take it, but it would be present in my ideal school system, since I do recognize the importance of teaching kids good fitness techniques. However, no one would receive grades based on athletic skills, but on effort. (At my high school, PE classes featured regular "quizzes" on things like shooting free throws, spiking a volleyball, or dribbling a soccer ball down a field. I really resented my perpetual C's and D's on these quizzes.) Team sports and competition would be deemphasized; alternative forms of exercise (e.g. yoga, dance, martial arts) would be offered.

I'd also like to see practical, "life skills" courses (cooking and so forth) offered at least as electives in high school. I know far too many people who subsist on a diet of nothing but ramen noodles and peanut butter sandwiches since moving out of their parents' houses, and it's just sad.

And then my personal pet school subject idea... *hops on soapbox*

LOGIC. I would love, love, love to see the concept of basic syllogisms taught starting in second grade or so (age 7/8, for all you with different school systems). For anyone who's not acquainted with the noble syllogism, here's a quick lesson (Skip ahead if you've taken a philosophy class. :)):
A syllogism is a series of statements, containing premises and a conclusion derived from those premises. An example of an accurate syllogism would be:

1. All ducks say "quack."
2. This bird is a duck.
3. Therefore, this bird says "quack."

An example of an inaccurate syllogism would be:

1. All ducks say "quack."
2. This bird says "quack."
3. Therefore, this bird is a duck.

A second example of an inaccurate syllogism would be:

1. All chickens say "quack."
2. This bird is a chicken.
3. Therefore, this bird says "quack."

And a final such example:

1. All ducks have feathers.
2. All chickens have feathers.
3. Therefore, all ducks are chickens.

(End of brief lesson)

While it may be a philosophical construct, and thus a subject normally reserved for college courses, identifying true and false syllogisms at a very basic level is not beyond the grasp of a seven-year-old mind. Imagine how much more advanced the level of debate on this forum could be in 20 years if this idea were implemented and all people understood why syllogisms like the last three above lead to false conclusions! ;)

*gets off soapbox*

"The Cat-Tribe is your Friend... The Cat-Tribe only wants what is good for you... you can always trust in The Cat-Tribe..."

actually, with a good tune, that might make a spiffy Alma Mater... :D

Exactically!

Now, spread the teachings, my pupil. ;) :D

I had a fairly balanced education. For example, even though I went to a Catholic boarding school, we were still taught about Atheism and Humanism (amongst Judaism, Buddhism, Islam and Sihkism) in the RE classes. I despised PE and dropped it as soon as I could - mostly because for most of my time at school I had a major crush on a guy in my class and well, I was afraid of certain bodily functions happening at inappropriate moments. Luckily it never did.

I was taught the basics of a broad variety of subjects in my first two years of high school, and then was given choices. Here's an idea of what I did (may be incomplete):

Home economics (cooking and sewing),
Graphics design,
Technical (i.e., "woodshop" to Americans, I think),
Maths,
English,
French,
German,
Italian,
Latin,
Accounts,
Administration,
Computing,
RE,
PE,
Personal Social Education,
Biology,
Physics,
Chemistry,
Music,
Drama,
Art,
Geography.

I chose this for my third/fourth years:
Maths, English, French, Accounts, Computing, Physics, Art and Geography.

For my fifth year I chose:
Maths, English, Computing, Physics and Art.

I then went to college for a year and did:
Advanced Maths, Advanced English, Advanced Computing and Philosophy.

This year I hope to attend Uni for a degree in Computer Science, depending upon my exam results.

I quite like the Scottish education system. It may be underfunded and understaffed, but the actual cirriculum is fairly comprehensive.

LOGIC. I would love, love, love to see the concept of basic syllogisms taught starting in second grade or so (age 7/8, for all you with different school systems). At second grade though, they have JUST started into concrete reasoning (Piaget), they probably cannot even start to comprehend conservation of volume yet, let alone abstract logic. 6th grade/middle school would be a better target age. Around then, most children are starting to devlope abstract reasoning skills and would be able to comprehend symbolic logic.