NationStates Jolt Archive

Perhaps people should rethink their thoughts on France and US relations? Or perhaps this doesn't impress you in the least?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8447307/

if anything, american should be hero worshiping the french. it was the french who helped them fight against britain for their freedom from our damn foolish monarchy. but no, they just insult them and rename food. freedom fries indeed...

if anything, american should be hero worshiping the french. it was the french who helped them fight against britain for their freedom from our damn foolish monarchy. but no, they just insult them and rename food. freedom fries indeed...
What?? We saved france from the nazis in ww2. That repays the debt with interest in my opinion. Besides you are just joking anyway about america worshipping france right :D ? I almost took you semi-seriously for a moment. Anyway I think that Americans have a right to dislike the french, after all the french eat frogs and snails and do not support our war(which you know is not a cause for war but simply annoys us). I think that france should just realize that we are the super-power and obey our every whim :) . I mean sure they have nukes and such but the glory day of France is long gone and the frenchies know it and hate it.

So instead of fighting the war on Iraq, France is REALLY fighting the war on Terror. And so is Spain.
Makes a lot of sense.
And it also makes the CIA happy.

We saved france from the nazis in ww2. That repays the debt with interest in my opinion.

Do you keep tabs on balances with your friends? How much you owe them, how much they owe you? And I'm not talking about currency.

So instead of fighting the war on Iraq, France is REALLY fighting the war on Terror. And so is Spain.
Makes a lot of sense.
And it also makes the CIA happy.
Not to mention, NATO, which France and Spain are both members of (right?) is in Afghanistan.

Do you keep tabs on balances with your friends? How much you owe them, how much they owe you? And I'm not talking about currency.you need to include Socialist-anarchists in this...

Not to mention, NATO, which France and Spain are both members of (right?) is in Afghanistan.

Yes, but if France had their way, they wouldnt be in Afghanistan. They were reluctant to go there in the first place.

I Think Renaming French Fries To Freedom Fries Was An Incompetent And Pointless Decsision That Some Of Our Overpatriotic Citizens Decided To Do.
I Also agree that france should be an underling of the U.S., Not Vice-Versa.

Do you keep tabs on balances with your friends? How much you owe them, how much they owe you? And I'm not talking about currency.

Friends? Who needs friends? I mean servants are better and if they think that you are their friend all the better.

I think if you're going to capitalize every word in the first sentence, you should at least capitalize the word "France."

Well, we did get you out of sticky situations in WWI and WWII. Plus, you guys got spanked in Vietnam.

I Think Renaming French Fries To Freedom Fries Was An Incompetent And Pointless Decsision That Some Of Our Overpatriotic Citizens Decided To Do.
I Also agree that france should be an underling of the U.S., Not Vice-Versa.

Its the same thing as changing Sourkraut to liberty cabbage dure WW1. But hey, our Anti-French attitude took its toll on the French. Their economy was hit, because many people refusing to buy wine from France. I remember reading an article about French wineries complaining at the site of people pouring our french wine in the streets.

I myself, called them Freedom Fries for a while, but now they are French Fries again. But hey...I also refused to eat Heinz ketchup all throughout 2004, because of John Kerry so...

Its the same thing as changing Sourkraut to liberty cabbage dure WW1.
No it's not. In World War I, the Germans were our enemies.

Their economy was hit, because many people refusing to buy wine from France.
Whatever. Do you know how SMALL the US market is for French wine?
They sell more in Canada, for gawd's sake.

No it's not. In World War I, the Germans were our enemies.

Ahem..."Either you are with us, or against us." It may just be me, but it didn't seem like the French wanted to be with us...which ment they are against us...And this also may just be me, but usually people that are against us are labeled as enemies. And you dont have to fight a war to be enemies. There are political enemies, among other things.

I will give credit where credit is due. Thank you France, there is hope for you yet.

Whatever. Do you know how SMALL the US market is for French wine?
They sell more in Canada, for gawd's sake.

I'd say it's the tourist dollars that were lost that hurt the French economy, along with other products they produce. It wasn't particularly significant, since French economic growth is so abysmal and it would be hard to notice.

Ahem..."Either you are with us, or against us." It may just be me, but it didn't seem like the French wanted to be with us...which ment they are against us...And this also may just be me, but usually people that are against us are labeled as enemies.
So you basically walk through life punching people on the nose because they might not agree with everything you say?

Whatever. Do you know how SMALL the US market is for French wine?
They sell more in Canada, for gawd's sake.

Maybe thats because...of their close ties? I mean, there are a lot of people in Canada that speak French...;)

Well, we did get you out of sticky situations in WWI and WWII. Plus, you guys got spanked in Vietnam.

WW1, the allies would have won without the US, just a big longer. WW2, you get credit, but it wasnt exactly selfless. Only join the war when attacked, attack through france because its the best route to germany, and marshall aid gives the US the oppertunity for great markets for its goods. That made things equal, if anything.

I seem to remember the US got "spanked" in vietnam, too. They could have prevented that whole mess though, if they had agreed to operation vulture in 1954.

Anyways, nothing will ever convince the US that the French are good people.

WW1, the allies would have won without the US, just a big longer. WW2, you get credit, but it wasnt exactly selfless. Only join the war when attacked, attack through france because its the best route to germany, and marshall aid gives the US the oppertunity for great markets for its goods. That made things equal, if anything.
.

Actually, I think that WWI would have ended in stalemate. Remember, the Germans and Russians had signed a cease fire, so all of the Eastern Front troops could now be put on the western front, and the advantage that forcing Germany to fight two fronts had provided was lost. It might still be going on, in a kind of 1984 style perma-war.

Anyways, nothing will ever convince the US that the French are good people.

We believed it once. Thats how we ended up with the Statue of Liberty (Its been in the hands of the US long enough to get all the French germs containted. Lol, j/k)

Actually, I think that WWI would have ended in stalemate. Remember, the Germans and Russians had signed a cease fire, so all of the Eastern Front troops could now be put on the western front, and the advantage that forcing Germany to fight two fronts had provided was lost. It might still be going on, in a kind of 1984 style perma-war.

The thing is, the allies had the technological advantage in air and vehicles. While it would have been longer and such, as long as the allies could hold off from a final assault with the new soldiers to the west. FT-17's, and new innovations, would have allowed for breakthroughs of set lines much more easily.

WW1 wasnt as bad as WW2. The French actually were doing good, but not as good as Germany. When the US troops starting landing in France, at the rate of thousands per day, it gave them the little help they needed, numericly, to hold off the Germans. So the Germans began an all out do or die assault to try and end the war before enough Americans landed to stop them. The French could have won WW1 without us, but it would have taken them a very long time.

Its the same thing as changing Sourkraut to liberty cabbage dure WW1. But hey, our Anti-French attitude took its toll on the French. Their economy was hit, because many people refusing to buy wine from France. I remember reading an article about French wineries complaining at the site of people pouring our french wine in the streets.

I myself, called them Freedom Fries for a while, but now they are French Fries again. But hey...I also refused to eat Heinz ketchup all throughout 2004, because of John Kerry so...
Which mean's you're a twit because Heinz has nothing to do with Kerry.

Oh, and no, it really didn't. Their economy wasn't hit. I also laughed at the idiots WHO BOUGHT THE WINE and then dumped it down the drain. Bet they had a nice laugh over that one.

Which mean's you're a twit because Heinz has nothing to do with Kerry.

Oh, and no, it really didn't. Their economy wasn't hit. I also laughed at the idiots WHO BOUGHT THE WINE and then dumped it down the drain. Bet they had a nice laugh over that one.

Actually, he does. His wife is the heiress to the company, which has only 2 out of their 48 plants in America, and he was complaigning about outsourcing.

And about the wine thing. The people who dumped it out had bought in a while before and they finally put it to good use by dumping it out.

Ahem..."Either you are with us, or against us." It may just be me, but it didn't seem like the French wanted to be with us...which ment they are against us...And this also may just be me, but usually people that are against us are labeled as enemies. And you dont have to fight a war to be enemies. There are political enemies, among other things.you can hate France all you want...

Its not like France is afraid of the Bushites.

France is not Iraq, or Panama, or Salvador...

France can take an anti Bush stand any time they wish (remember Villerpin sp?)...The Bushites cant smack them...all the bushites can do is talk...and change the name of "French Fries" :rolleyes:

The thing is, the allies had the technological advantage in air and vehicles. While it would have been longer and such, as long as the allies could hold off from a final assault with the new soldiers to the west. FT-17's, and new innovations, would have allowed for breakthroughs of set lines much more easily.

That is interesting. I'd like to look in to it some more, maybe so I can make an alternate history scenario on Rise of Nations.

you can hate France all you want...

Its not like France is afraid of the Bushites.

France is not Iraq, or Panama, or Salvador...

France can take an anti Bush stand any time they wish (remember Villerpin sp?)...The Bushites cant smack them...all the bushites can do is talk...and change the name of "French Fries" :rolleyes:

If I was France, I would be anti Bush too. I would definatly hate the man who invaded and took out the man who was abusing the Oil for Food resolution which was getting me cheaper oil.

if anything, american should be hero worshiping the french. it was the french who helped them fight against britain for their freedom from our damn foolish monarchy. but no, they just insult them and rename food. freedom fries indeed...


Well lets not forget the Spanish and the Dutch also forght on the side of the U.S

If I was France, I would be anti Bush too. I would definatly hate the man who invaded and took out the man who was abusing the Oil for Food resolution which was getting me cheaper oil.

French companies dont equal France.

US companies were abusing it as well, highly at that.

French companies dont equal France.

US companies were abusing it as well, highly at that.

I'd say that I don't like the government of France, but have nothing against the people. That's my opinion, however.

Look what goes on in public politics doesnt mean that it reflects the same in Military or intelligence operations. I think Chirac was trying to apease a certain section of the French public by bashing the US at the time. I think he went to far and really pissed off the American public. Which in turn demanded the in kind treatment toward France. Much like how Russian and American politics are. Secretly the US and Russia do work on intelligence operations together.

I'd say that I don't like the government of France, but have nothing against the people. That's my opinion, however.i don't like the people of France...they killed the EU constitution.

actually the expression "don't like" does not correctly reflects my state of mind...

think cheese :D

Look what goes on in public politics doesnt mean that it reflects the same in Military or intelligence operations. I think Chirac was trying to apease a certain section of the French public by bashing the US at the time. I think he went to far and really pissed off the American public. Which in turn demanded the in kind treatment toward France. Much like how Russian and American politics are. Secretly the US and Russia do work on intelligence operations together.
Except that France has been supporting anti-terrorism from the start. Iraq has nothing to do with terrorism. Hense why no support.


This isn't complex really. France helped us out when we were attacked. They did not help us when we started a war without cause.

Except that France has been supporting anti-terrorism from the start. Iraq has nothing to do with terrorism. Hense why no support.


This isn't complex really. France helped us out when we were attacked. They did not help us when we started a war without cause.

Not really. The French were very reluctant to go into Afghanistan.

Not really. The French were very reluctant to go into Afghanistan.its not like if they had to go.

several countries did not send troops to Afghanistan...

several other countries did not send troops to Iraq...

The Brits have clearly stated that they will not go for "another dance" with the US...Iran and Syria are not on the British agenda...

its not like if they had to go.

They are a member of NATO. How do you think it owuld look if they didnt send troops? Maybe its just me, but I think it would like kinda suspecious.

They are a member of NATO. How do you think it owuld look if they didnt send troops? Maybe its just me, but I think it would like kinda suspecious.
like i said 10 minutes ago...France does not care to look "suspecious" to the US.
They dont feel they have to please Bush.

Kudos to France are owed. Kudos.
Paid in full.

The problems between France and the U.S. this century are similar in character to the problems between France and the United Kingdom in previous centuries. Two titanic egoes clashing constantly over imagined 'debts', slights, and insults.

Neither wants to defer to the other. Both believe the other should defer to theim. Hence, petty bickering.

like i said 10 minutes ago...France does not care to look "suspecious" to the US.
They dont feel they have to please Bush.

They would look suspecious to more than just Bush.

What?? We saved france from the nazis in ww2. That repays the debt with interest in my opinion. Besides you are just joking anyway about america worshipping france right :D ? I almost took you semi-seriously for a moment. Anyway I think that Americans have a right to dislike the french, after all the french eat frogs and snails and do not support our war(which you know is not a cause for war but simply annoys us). I think that france should just realize that we are the super-power and obey our every whim :) . I mean sure they have nukes and such but the glory day of France is long gone and the frenchies know it and hate it.

America would have just let France to rot if it had no resources the Germans could use. Oh, and Lafayette if he had known how the newly-independent colonies would act, I bet 500 livres that he would have worked for the British.

Tbh, I was angry with France not because they didn't support the war in Iraq (as I myself, do not), but because they didn't support it because of the amount of business they were doing with Iraq, and didn't support the war purely for selfish reasons.

Btw, would just like to clarify; not angry at the people, just at their government. Although I do agree with the person who was annoyed at the people for not passing the constitution.


And also, as for WWI ending, it certainly would not have come as quickly if the US hadn't have given their support (Big props to Wilson :p), although considering the domestic situation in Germany [read:starvation] due to the British blockade it probably would have come sooner rather than later, so long as the Allied forces could hold the western front.

They would look suspecious to more than just Bush.The question is:

What are You and Bush going to do about it?

What CAN You & Bush do about it?

That is the $441.6 billion Question.

Not really. The French were very reluctant to go into Afghanistan.
And yet they did.


You do realize "you're either with us or you're against us" is a logical fallicy, right?

America would have just let France to rot if it had no resources the Germans could use. Oh, and Lafayette if he had known how the newly-independent colonies would act, I bet 500 livres that he would have worked for the British.

Well, I doubt that France would have helped the American colonies other than to get back at England. Both sides did this for expedience and helped one another out.

The question is:

What are You and Bush going to do about it?

What CAN You & Bush do about it?

Speak freely and criticize them, where, being in America, its aloud, unlike places like Iraq, who the French were all of a sudden so determined to protect.

Yes, but if France had their way, they wouldnt be in Afghanistan. They were reluctant to go there in the first place.

Care to back this up? or did you just conjure this out of stereotypes and conservative ire?

Well, I doubt that France would have helped the American colonies other than to get back at England. Both sides did this for expedience and helped one another out.

The French only helped us to try and better themselves. It was a stab at England, and it would be in their interest to have a Pro-French America rather than a Pro-British America.

Im american, and i like the french...is stupid how nations who claim allegence quickly bash each other behind their backs, americans to french, british to french, british to americans, and visversa, cant we all just get along! :headbang:

Care to back this up? or did you just conjure this out of stereotypes and conservative ire?

I got it from the Military Channel. There was a bit about the Taliban and Afghanistan on there, and it talked about nations in Afghanistan. Ultimatly, I got bored with the show and changed it lol.

The French only helped us to try and better themselves. It was a stab at England, and it would be in their interest to have a Pro-French America rather than a Pro-British America.

And? WW1 and WW2, America helped the french for their own reasons. Everyone(except a few countries, like canada in ww2) fights for their own betterment(I know thats not a word). The fact is that they did, not why they did.

We stood by while the Nazis blitzkreiged France and didn't help out until the Germans declared war on us a year later, so saying that they owe us for World War Two and then saying they were a false friend in the War of Independence makes no sense.

And yet they did.


You do realize "you're either with us or you're against us" is a logical fallicy, right?

Hmmm... I thought it was empty rhetoric and playing to the crowd's ugly mood at the time, CSW.

Ya know what? International debts are just part of diplomacy, if one is very diplomatic or very forceful, those debts can be forgotten. The truth is that it is every nation out for themselves, we just have to find the nations that will help us in the long run.

I got it from the Military Channel. There was a bit about the Taliban and Afghanistan on there, and it talked about nations in Afghanistan. Ultimatly, I got bored with the show and changed it lol.

Sounds like you're an expert. Thanks for weighing in.

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/france.html

The French suck.

And? WW1 and WW2, America helped the french for their own reasons. Everyone(except a few countries, like canada in ww2) fights for their own betterment(I know thats not a word). The fact is that they did, not why they did.

We didnt help the French for our "betterment" in WW2. Germany declared war on us so we fought them. Thats like saying we fought in WW2 for the "betterment" of Russia, just because we were on the same side.

Ya know what? International debts are just part of diplomacy, if one is very diplomatic or very forceful, those debts can be forgotten. The truth is that it is every nation out for themselves, we just have to find the nations that will help us in the long run.

The US actually forgave the debts from WW1, because nobody was paying it, and we knew thaet nobody was able to pay it.

We stood by while the Nazis blitzkreiged France and didn't help out until the Germans declared war on us a year later, so saying that they owe us for World War Two and then saying they were a false friend in the War of Independence makes no sense.

Well, both countries in their own ways are false friends. We owe them for what they did as they owe us for what we did or no one owes anyone because of the selfish goals behind our actions. That is the idea behind those arguments, one is to say that they were as false as we were, and the other is to say that our false friendliness counters theirs.

Its the same thing as changing Sourkraut to liberty cabbage dure WW1. But hey, our Anti-French attitude took its toll on the French. Their economy was hit, because many people refusing to buy wine from France. I remember reading an article about French wineries complaining at the site of people pouring our french wine in the streets.

Wow, this thread sure holds a lot of mis-information now doesn't it? I could of quoted a half dozen posts, but this one stood out for me.. I think I was only on page 2 or 3...lol

1) Germany declared war on America, France saved America.. no, not the same thing.

2) Think about what you just said.. Yes, all those Americans BUYING French wine to pour it out in the streets to make a statement, really hurt the French economy ..lol NOT! Boycotting it might of hurt a little, but since France sells their wines to just about every country in the world, I doubt the USA makes much of a difference to them really one way or the other at least when it comes to the wine.

3) Not this poster, but someone else had posted that France isn't owed anything for saving America's butt from the British because the USA saved theirs in WWII. umm check your history dude, I believe it was the allies, not just Americans who liberated France, in fact armies from quite a few countries. But by all means, take all the credit. :rolleyes:

Wow, this thread sure holds a lot of mis-information now doesn't it? I could of quoted a half dozen posts, but this one stood out for me.. I think I was only on page 2 or 3...lol

1) Germany declared war on America, France saved America.. no, not the same thing.

2) Think about what you just said.. Yes, all those Americans BUYING French wine to pour it out in the streets to make a statement, really hurt the French economy ..lol NOT! Boycotting it might of hurt a little, but since France sells their wines to just about every country in the world, I doubt the USA makes much of a difference to them really one way or the other at least when it comes to the wine.

3) Not this poster, but someone else had posted that France isn't owed anything for saving America's butt from the British because the USA saved theirs in WWII. umm check your history dude, I believe it was the allies, not just Americans who liberated France, in fact armies from quite a few countries. But by all means, take all the credit. :rolleyes:

Somebody already brought up your point in number 2. And I already answered it. They had bought the wine before the whole freedom fry and anti-french wave. They poured it out as a way of saying they didnt want it. And they didnt buy anymore.