NationStates Jolt Archive

Quoted from Yahoo.


EDMONTON (CP) - Police are investigating whether two separate attacks on gay men in Edmonton are hate crimes while activists maintain the political climate in Alberta played a role.

The attacks, including one incident in front of City Hall just prior to a Gay Pride event, are partly the result of the Alberta government's staunch opposition to same-sex marriage, say gay activists and a member of the Edmonton Police Commission.

The Edmonton Police Hate/Bias Crime Unit is investigating, Const. Dave Huggins said Thursday.

"We have been reviewing a couple of files involving some criminal behaviour directed at the gay community," Huggins told a news conference outside police headquarters.

"Once those files are reviewed and completed we will be able to assess whether hate was involved and we will proceed from there."

One man has been charged with assault after punching a gay man, Huggins said. No other details were released.

Gay activist Murray Billet, who is also a member of the police commission, praised police for investigating the attacks.

Billet said Premier Ralph Klein and his government's opposition to same-sex marriage has help foster an atmosphere of intolerance of gays and lesbians.

"What Mr. Klein and what this government are doing is nothing short of schoolyard bully behaviour," he said. "It is just unacceptable."

Billett said Klein owes gays and lesbians an apology and called on the province to end its fight against same-sex marriage.

On Wednesday, Alberta Justice Minister Ron Stevens suggested the province is considering going to court to challenge the new federal law that allows gay marriages - even though it knows it will lose the case.

Other government members have suggested that Alberta should get out of the business of issuing marriage licences and instead issue "civil union" licences, leaving marriage to churches.

Klein was unavailable for comment.

Jerry Bellikka, the premier's spokesman, refuted the assertion that Alberta's position against same-sex marriage had anything to do with the attacks.

"The premier has made it clear there is no place in Alberta for gay bashing," Bellikka said. "There is no place in this province for hate crimes."

Kris Wells, who is a member of the Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Edmonton Police Service Liason Committee, said such attacks must stop.

He also accused Alberta political leaders of priming the pump of intolerance.

"Recently Ralph said in the media that he has run out of weapons in his arsenal to fight same-sex marriage. That language is incredibly violent," Wells said.

"For our premier to be using that kind of language. It is almost as if he is talking about a war against lesbian and gay persons by using those metaphors."

Edmonton Mayor Stephen Mandel also said such attacks are unacceptable.

"Those people should be punished severely and they shouldn't be so homophobic," Mandel said. "In this day and age it just shocks me."

The Klein government released a discussion paper Wednesday that examined such things as seeking a constitutional change to enshrine the definition of marriage as a union between a man and a woman.

The paper suggested this approach "is unlikely to work" because it would require resolutions in both the House of Commons and the Senate and the legislative assemblies of two-thirds of the provinces, representing more than 50 per cent of the population of Canada.


So add “weapons” “arsenal” and “fight” to the list of words that we are no longer allowed to say. After all, some unstable nut-bar might hear us and take it as a cue to launch into an orgy of gay-bashing. Let it be known, people: “Violent language” will not be tolerated by our benevolent keepers.

Incidentally, these people who minimize the vice of gay-bashing by using it as a political weapon against opponents of a public policy issue like same-sex marriage are nothing short of slimeballs.

Discuss.

Canada City']Quoted from Yahoo.



So add “weapons” “arsenal” and “fight” to the list of words that we are no longer allowed to say. After all, some unstable nut-bar might hear us and take it as a cue to launch into an orgy of gay-bashing. Let it be known, people: “Violent language” will not be tolerated by our benevolent keepers.

Incidentally, these people who minimize the vice of gay-bashing by using it as a political weapon against opponents of a public policy issue like same-sex marriage are nothing short of slimeballs.

Discuss.

I foresee that in the year 11337, it will be illegal to speak.

Canada City']

So add “weapons” “arsenal” and “fight” to the list of words that we are no longer allowed to say. After all, some unstable nut-bar might hear us and take it as a cue to launch into an orgy of gay-bashing. Let it be known, people: “Violent language” will not be tolerated by our benevolent keepers.


Yet another "anti-PC rant". I love how you make this one person's comment about 'violent language' the focus, instead of Alberta's extremely anti-gay stance, and the gay-bashing incidents that occured the day after the vote to legitimize gay marriage.

Canada City'] So add “weapons” “arsenal” and “fight” to the list of words that we are no longer allowed to say. After all, some unstable nut-bar might hear us and take it as a cue to launch into an orgy of gay-bashing. Let it be known, people: “Violent language” will not be tolerated by our benevolent keepers.

Incidentally, these people who minimize the vice of gay-bashing by using it as a political weapon against opponents of a public policy issue like same-sex marriage are nothing short of slimeballs.

Discuss.
Who are "our keepers" in this strawman scenario you're setting up?

No one disallows use of those words, unless you imply that your conscience would keep you from inflaming others.

Canada City']The Edmonton Police Hate/Bias Crime Unit is investigating, Const. Dave Huggins said Thursday.
Wow. Why don't they just be honest and call it what it really is: The Edmonton Police ThoughtCrime Unit. :headbang:

Yes the words have a violent implication, but they do have a place in such verbal descriptions because one is describing one's ammunition, and in this case it's rhetoric. But it didn't say it couldn't be used...

Wow. Why don't they just be honest and call it what it really is: The Edmonton Police ThoughtCrime Unit. :headbang:

Actually the police are wondering if bastard who punched the gay was motivated by hate.

Which is retarded, because either way, it's assault. Who cares if it's hate crime or not, someone got hurt. Waste of taxpayer's money.

Canada City']So add “weapons” “arsenal” and “fight” to the list of words that we are no longer allowed to say.

Discuss.

Does Kris Wells hold so much personal sway over your day-to-day affairs that you plan to police your words? You seem to be forgetting that Kris Wells doesn't run your life.

And you seem to be forgetting that this isn't about limits on your freedom of expression. This is about extending to all Canadians the same rights and freedoms. And presumably, in this case, preventing our fellow Canadians from being victimized for their sexual orientation.

Nice job of totally dismissing an actual physical assault in favour of whining about a perceived, abstracted attack on your freedom to spout inanities.

Whereas if it was a gay aboriginal hitting a white hetero guy it wouldn't be - bloody double standard! A hate crime is a hate crime; violence is violence. We are all equal before the law.

Canada City']Actually the police are wondering if bastard who punched the gay was motivated by hate.

Which is retarded, because either way, it's assault. Who cares if it's hate crime or not, someone got hurt. Waste of taxpayer's money.
I agree. Assault is assault. Murder is murder. Just because someone was thinking something at the time of the crime doesn't make it any less or more a crime. It's still a crime.

To be technical, almost any violent crime is a "hate" crime in one way or another.

Wow. Why don't they just be honest and call it what it really is: The Edmonton Police ThoughtCrime Unit. :headbang:
Hate crimes are disallowed by the Criminal Code of Canada, which is directly based on the Constitution.

If you wish to think of it contradicts some ideal of free speech, fine; but "freedom of speech", a phrase bantied loosely around, does not mean "I can say whatever I want, whenever I want."

Or are you referring to something else? Perhaps these cops are psychics?

I agree. Assault is assault. Murder is murder. Just because someone was thinking something at the time of the crime doesn't make it any less or more a crime. It's still a crime.

To be technical, almost any violent crime is a "hate" crime in one way or another.
I'm sure that what constitutes a "hate crime" is clearly defined by, and for, the Courts.

Hate, in this case, is not about what goes on inside a person's head. It is about a contradiction of Canada's proud policy of multi-culturalism.

Wow. Why don't they just be honest and call it what it really is: The Edmonton Police ThoughtCrime Unit. :headbang:
Great job on completely missing the point. The hate crimes unit is NOT investigating Ralph Klein and his 'violent' statements. They are investigating the violent ACTIONS...the gay bashing itself.

Hate, in this case, is not about what goes on inside a person's head.Wrong. It's exactly about what goes on inside a person's head. It's all about motivation. It's about what the perpetrator of the crime was thinking. That's what makes it a HATE crime.It is about a contradiction of Canada's proud policy of multi-culturalism.Wow! Can't you say "Newspeak"? :eek:

Whereas if it was a gay aboriginal hitting a white hetero guy it wouldn't be - bloody double standard! A hate crime is a hate crime; violence is violence. We are all equal before the law.
Right. The hate crime/bias laws are only to protect non whites and females. Allow me to roll my eyes. Are you forgetting that a NATIVE was charged for hate crimes (http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/06/22/hate050622.html) too? This is not a bunch 'pick on straight whitey' laws.

I think Alberta should succeed from Canada and become the 51st state of the USA. :D

This is not a bunch 'pick on straight whitey' laws.

Expect a dozen pages or more from angry, straight, white Americans weighing in heavily on this, Sinu.

(Not your post, per se, but that of the original paranoi- err, poster)

Gosh it's tough being straight, white, male and uptight these days, isn't it fellas?

I think Alberta should succeed from Canada and become the 51st state of the USA. :D

I think Alberta should secede from Canada and become the central repository for all of America's toxic and radioactive wastes, which, face it, would probably be the role Alberta would play as the 51st state anyway.

Here is a bit of information on Canada's hate crime laws. Why don't you check them out before you start screaming 'newspeak conspiracy!'?

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/c-46/41491.html

http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/040601/d040601a.htm

Wrong. It's exactly about what goes on inside a person's head. It's all about motivation. It's about what the perpetrator of the crime was thinking. That's what makes it a HATE crime.

Wow! Can't you say "Newspeak"? :eek:
I can, indeed, say it, but I have no clue what you mean by that. Is it an American thing?

I can, indeed, say it, but I have no clue what you mean by that. Is it an American thing?

It's an Orwellian thing. the Americans have only recently read '1984' and surprise, surprise, see their own reflections in the text.

Here is a bit of information on Canada's hate crime laws. Why don't you check them out before you start screaming 'newspeak conspiracy!'?

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/c-46/41491.html

http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/040601/d040601a.htm
Hm, I thought its focus was on ethnicity ("race" being a redundant term). I stand corrected.

http://hatemonitor.csusb.edu/other_countries_laws/HateCrime-English.pdf]1.2[/url] Definitional and Other Uncertainties

Why should the criminal justice system single out crime motivated by hatred from other offenses? It could be argued that all criminal acts have an adverse impact upon its victims. Criminal offending, whether hate-motivated or not, may result result in physical injury, emotional and psychological distress or social isolation. However, available studies suggest the victimization associated with hate-motivated crimes can be more severe when compared to non-hate crimes. Hate crimes result in a disproportionate level of harm which affects not only the individual, but the entire groups associated with the victim (Roberts, 1995).

In any case, a hate crime is difficult to prove as such, unless the people committing the acts are known members of a group that spreads hatred.

However, clearly there is a difference between knifing a stranger, and knifing gay people during a pride parade in Israel. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/595087.html

Yet another "anti-PC rant". I love how you make this one person's comment about 'violent language' the focus, instead of Alberta's extremely anti-gay stance, and the gay-bashing incidents that occured the day after the vote to legitimize gay marriage.

I love how you make the policies of the Albertan government the focus, instead of the people who actually carried out the attacks. I highly doubt they were goons on the payroll of Ralph Klein.

Wrong. It's exactly about what goes on inside a person's head. It's all about motivation. It's about what the perpetrator of the crime was thinking. That's what makes it a HATE crime.
No, it is about what they are doing, not what they are thinking.

Hate crimes are offences "motivated by bias, prejudice or hate based on race, national or ethnic origin, language, colour, religion, sex, age, mental or physical disability, sexual orientation, or any other similar factor."

It's an Orwellian thing. the Americans have only recently read '1984' and surprise, surprise, see their own reflections in the text.
Ah. I never read that one.

I love how you make the policies of the Albertan government the focus, instead of the people who actually carried out the attacks. I highly doubt they were goons on the payroll of Ralph Klein.
Actually, she made the Alberta people, in general, the focus, not the government. Ralph will be the first to tell you he only speaks for the people.

I love how you make the policies of the Albertan government the focus, instead of the people who actually carried out the attacks. I highly doubt they were goons on the payroll of Ralph Klein.

Yet another "anti-PC rant". I love how you make this one person's comment about 'violent language' the focus, instead of Alberta's extremely anti-gay stance, and the gay-bashing incidents that occurred the day after the vote to legitimize gay marriage.

Perhaps you should reread my quote and check for comprehension. Here, I'll help.


1) What two issues does the writer say should be the focus, instead of the 'violent language' comment?

- Alberta's anti-gay stance
- gay bashing incidents

2) Does the author suggest that the perpetrators of the gay bashing were on the Alberta government's payroll?

-no

3) Are you, the reader, ducking the issue by introducing connections not intended by the original author?

-certainly.

Great job on completely missing the point. The hate crimes unit is NOT investigating Ralph Klein and his 'violent' statements. They are investigating the violent ACTIONS...the gay bashing itself.
I didn't miss the point, thank you.

Personally, I could give a shit less if a person's perceived sexual orientation made them a target or if the perpetrator of the crime was motivated by "hate". Assault is STILL assault, no matter how you look at it.

The criminals should be dealt with harshly and not because they were thinking a certain thing before/while they were engaged in criminal activity but because they engaged in criminal activity, period.

The criminals should be dealt with harshly and not because they were thinking a certain thing before/while they were engaged in criminal activity but because they engaged in criminal activity, period.

Well perhaps it'd work that way where you live. We have a higher standard here; hate crimes differ from other forms of crime, we acknowledge that difference, and proceed from there.

So gay-bashing is a simple assault where you are? Too bad for the people who live there. No wonder you're all armed to the teeth.

I didn't miss the point, thank you.

Personally, I could give a shit less if a person's perceived sexual orientation made them a target or if the perpetrator of the crime was motivated by "hate". Assault is STILL assault, no matter how you look at it. Ah yes, and murder is murder no matter how you look at it, and theft is theft and assault is assault etc etc etc. Well, that isn't true. Which is why we have various LEVELS of crimes and punishments. Second degree murder is not the same as first degree murder. And assaulting a random person for kicks is not the same as assaulting a member of a group you happen to hate.

The criminals should be dealt with harshly and not because they were thinking a certain thing before/while they were engaged in criminal activity but because they engaged in criminal activity, period.
I can't speak to this particular case because the details are sketchy at best. However, consider another crime that happened in Alberta a couple of years ago. A children's library was firebombed. The library happened to be a Jewish children's library, and swastikas were often painted on it, and acts of vandalism were rife with anti-semetic graffiti. Is this, to you, just the same as the fire bombing of any children's library? Does the intent to terrorise and intimidate a particular group not warrant an additional charge on top of the action itself?