NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, as part of a discussion in another thread, I thought I would see what the NS community has to say about teenage pregnancies.

I, myself, am a teenage pregnancy, although it was late teens the fact remains that I was born when my mum was still a teenager. I have nothing against them and don't believe them to be this evil and wrong thing that is a plague in society and on the teenage parents.

I think that we should give better education to the teenagers and more support to those who become teenage parents, rather than stigmatise them and condemn them to a life of poverty and crap just because they became teenage parents (which is the attitude of society at the moment).

What do you think?

I agree with you. Better education, better access to condoms and birth control would be a great start. I've always supported allowing teenagers to have access to birth control without them having to inform the parents. If they did that, more teen girls would be more inclined to go get birth control. And perhaps we'd see less abortions.

I agree with you. Better education, better access to condoms and birth control would be a great start. I've always supported allowing teenagers to have access to birth control without them having to inform the parents. If they did that, more teen girls would be more inclined to go get birth control. And perhaps we'd see less abortions.

What do you mean by birth control? Condoms?

I think that becoming pregnant and carrying a baby to term when you don't have the resources to support it (whether you be 15 or 40) is incredibly irresponsible. If a person has the resources to support their child (themselves, the father, their family) that's good, but otherwise I don't think that society should be any more inclined to help a person just because she has a baby than it helps other financially unstable people, beyond what it already gives to women with children.

EDIT: However, I think better sex education and offering free birth control is a very good idea.

Teenage pregnancy is not really the core of the problem. How it came about is. If the two teens are committed to each other and raising the child like responsible adults, fine. In fact, they could do better than adults!

i'm against it because as a teenager one (usually) has yet to experience much of life outside the home and family, yet to make it on your own, yet to learn the responsibility & understanding of the importance of family needed to raise a child 'properly' (this is a subjective term of course), and yet to have the resources necessary to do this.
so i'm against teenage pregnancies per se, as in i believe they should be very much discouraged both for the benefit of the child and parent(s).

however as you say these teenage pregnancies do happen and these people have arguably made a mistake. whether they intentionally went for it (and subsequently realise their mistake) or whether its an accident, those involved should not be chastised for it - especially as, by its very nature, teenage pregnancy is an issue that causes problems from early on in life, and will continue to affect those who have made the mistake for the rest of their lives. as you say "condemning them to a life of poverty and crap"
this can lead to the parents disliking or even hating their child for "ruining their life", which is only a bad thing for the poor kid.
plus its less likely the child will be provided for adequatley and all that.

so instead of making these mistaken few suffer for the rest of their lives, greater support should be given... thats what the welfare state is there for after all (yay socialism ;))
but at the same time teenage pregnancy should be discouraged. if part of this is providing free contraception and the morning after pill then so be it. some argue that this wrecks the morals of society, but the fact is this shit goes on anyway and stopping providing easy access to contraception won't alleviate the problem as this is just a symptom. the problem itself stems from a wider social problem.

being deliberatley vague here cos i don't have any concrete answers ;)

I think that becoming pregnant and carrying a baby to term when you don't have the resources to support it (whether you be 15 or 40) is incredibly irresponsible. If a person has the resources to support their child (themselves, the father, their family) that's good, but otherwise I don't think that society should be any more inclined to help a person just because she has a baby than it helps other financially unstable people, beyond what it already gives to women with children.

I believe that society does have a duty because that baby will become society in the future.

Furthermore, we have a duty from God to look after the most helpless in our society and they get no more helpless than a baby.

I believe that society does have a duty because that baby will become society in the future.

Furthermore, we have a duty from God to look after the most helpless in our society and they get no more helpless than a baby.

I'm all for looking after the helpless and homeless and moneyless, I just don't think that a person should get special concessions just because they're a teenager with a baby.

I'm all for looking after the helpless and homeless and moneyless, I just don't think that a person should get special concessions just because they're a teenager with a baby.

Well, that's where I disagree with you. We should give our most help to teenage pregnancies.

Teenage pregnancy is not really the core of the problem. How it came about is. If the two teens are committed to each other and raising the child like responsible adults, fine. In fact, they could do better than adults!
"if" yes. but lets be honest: most of these teenage pregnancies are either unwanted, a mistake, or involve parents-to-be who are frankly not as responsible as adults of, say, 10 years older.

plus what of the resources? it takes considerable resources & cost to raise children. how are a couple of teenagers (or just one) going to pay for this, not forgetting that the problem is concentrated in the poorest parts of society?
10 years down the line in your mid 20s these kids will be more likely to be able to raise a child properly. hence it sould be discouraged.


but the problem persists, so those teenage pregnancies that do go on should be given full support by the state

I say that we brain wash teenagers before this happens. After all it is less likely to happen if we create a good-old fear of premarital sex that borders obsession. But really I prefer abstinance based education(good abstinance based not lies) because that is what I believe in and would be highly disappointed if I had a child who did not do so(I would still be morally bound to protect them and such but not bound to be very nice). Really though I feel that imposing order on such things is the best way to crush resistance.

I say that we brain wash teenagers before this happens. After all it is less likely to happen if we create a good-old fear of premarital sex that borders obsession. But really I prefer abstinance based education(good abstinance based not lies) because that is what I believe in and would be highly disappointed if I had a child who did not do so(I would still be morally bound to protect them and such but not bound to be very nice). Really though I feel that imposing order on such things is the best way to crush resistance.

Lol, in a way I agree with you.

We should encourage abstinence before marriage and condom use if you are going to have sex before marriage.

But we must not spread the message that teenage pregnancies are wrong. Just tell them them to use a condom or wait until they are married. Don't say don't have sex because being a teenage parent is wrong.

What do you mean by birth control? Condoms?

Well, sadly each year many, many teenage girls become pregnant. At least 50% of them will have an abortion instead of having and raising the child. Or giving the child up for adoption. Obviously you can't teach them not to have sex, because they're going to do it whether we like it or not. So if schools gave better sex education and gave them options like the pill, or condoms and how to properly use them, not only could we possibly cut down on teenage pregnancy, we could probably also cut down on abortions. Don't get me wrong, I'm pro-choice, but in a perfect world there would be no abortions.

I have nothing against teenage mothers. And some of them can be very responsible and turn out to be good parents with the right support. Which I think would should give them. However it is a strain on society as a whole because teenagers are not always the most responsible parents and are not always the best parents as they are children themselves. I feel bad for them in a way, they don't even have a chance to grow up themselves and then to have to give up all that to raise children of their own. It's children raising children. Stats show that most teen mothers drop out of school and a whole host of other obstacles in life that non teen mothers have to face.

If we taught our kids in school more about birth control, we could not only maybe reduce teen pregnancy, but also abortion. That is my personal feeling on it anyway.

Well as long as the parents can provide for the child by legal means i see no problem with teen pregnancy (18/19 yo is teen but legal age and adult as well). But i have a problem with mere kids being to dumb to use contraceptives (condoms, pill, chemicals or whatnot). If they willingly rely on coitus interuptus or Knauss-Ogino they deserve a life of misery. If they dont know better for lack of education the local school board should be bound by law to care for them until they finish university.

You know...change the war on drugs to the war on teenage pregnancies! You'd go a long way...

Better sex education and awareness can help. There are some who still think you can't get pregnant on your first sex session.

Better sex education and awareness can help. There are some who still think you can't get pregnant on your first sex session.

Lol, a session is it! ;)

I say that we brain wash teenagers before this happens. After all it is less likely to happen if we create a good-old fear of premarital sex that borders obsession. But really I prefer abstinance based education(good abstinance based not lies) because that is what I believe in and would be highly disappointed if I had a child who did not do so(I would still be morally bound to protect them and such but not bound to be very nice). Really though I feel that imposing order on such things is the best way to crush resistance.
That was so heavy you don't even need the sarcasm tags. Though if you believe all the gobblety goop, I pity you.

Lol, in a way I agree with you.

We should encourage abstinence before marriage and condom use if you are going to have sex before marriage.

But we must not spread the message that teenage pregnancies are wrong. Just tell them them to use a condom or wait until they are married. Don't say don't have sex because being a teenage parent is wrong.

Are there people around who actually say that? If so, I'm glad I haven't met them yet.

Sure, the teenage mother has brought herself in a rather unfortunate situation, but that doesn't mean she doesn't deserve help or should loose society's respect. She should be supported in every possible way.

Help those teenage pregnancies that already happened, and prevent those that haven't happened yet. Give them all the information, hammer "NOT WITHOUT CONDOMS" into their brains, start TV ads, hand out free condoms, offer confidential visits to gynaecologists for information on alternative contraception methods, whatever it takes. No teenager wants to get pregnant...

Are there people around who actually say that? If so, I'm glad I haven't met them yet.

Believe me there are, and that is society makes you feel. Infact, this forum has shown us that view.

Lol, in a way I agree with you.

We should encourage abstinence before marriage and condom use if you are going to have sex before marriage.

But we must not spread the message that teenage pregnancies are wrong. Just tell them them to use a condom or wait until they are married. Don't say don't have sex because being a teenage parent is wrong.

Right on, just like people who hurt themselves with fireworks are not wrong, hurting themselves with the fireworks was wrong.
Likewise, making fun and casting out the people is wrong, trying to keep it from happening is the right way to go.

Help those teenage pregnancies that already happened, and prevent those that haven't happened yet. Give them all the information, hammer "NOT WITHOUT CONDOMS" into their brains, start TV ads, hand out free condoms, offer confidential visits to gynaecologists for information on alternative contraception methods, whatever it takes. No teenager wants to get pregnant...
You'd think that wouldn't you, I won't go into it but nm, moving on

None of that will get approved in the rightwing puritan american society where the only thing mroe horrible than evil itself is sex. Multiple states have banned the ability of school clinics to dispense condoms or anything else and many have banned the teaching of anything but scare tactics abstinence education

You know, kids would probably be more sexually responsible if parents just took the time to beat the crap out of them every once and a while. I mean, after all of the beatings the child would either be too injured or too frightened to ever have sex before marriage. :D
However, a real world solution would have to be much greater sex education that encompasses more aspects of society. After all most kids don't pay attention in school like they should. Ultimately I feel that the problems we have are caused by this society's obsession of sex and the glorification of it that runs rampant throughout our entertainment.

Ihatevacations']You'd think that wouldn't you, I won't go into it but nm, moving on

None of that will get approved in the rightwing puritan american society where the only thing mroe horrible than evil itself is sex. Multiple states have banned the ability of school clinics to dispense condoms or anything else and many have banned the teaching of anything but scare tactics abstinence education

Didn't know we were talking America here ;)

Actually, I was involved in Catholic youth groups in my home town in Germany, and believe me, I did put that message into their little brains. The whole thing. Including putting condoms on bananas for training :D
The condoms were actually financed by the diocese...

Are there people around who actually say that? If so, I'm glad I haven't met them yet.

Sure, the teenage mother has brought herself in a rather unfortunate situation, but that doesn't mean she doesn't deserve help or should loose society's respect. She should be supported in every possible way.

Help those teenage pregnancies that already happened, and prevent those that haven't happened yet. Give them all the information, hammer "NOT WITHOUT CONDOMS" into their brains, start TV ads, hand out free condoms, offer confidential visits to gynaecologists for information on alternative contraception methods, whatever it takes. No teenager wants to get pregnant...

I agree with you here. Although sadly some teens do want to get pregnant, these are usually girls who come from broken or abusive homes and have the mistaken idea that some how having a baby will bring them the love and affection they missed out on during their own childhood. The fact of the matter is that simply isn't the case. I'm a mother of two children. I have my first at 29 years old and my second at 34 years old. It's hard freaking work being a parent. You only get one chance to make it right. So if a married, grown woman such as myself thinks it's a damn hard job, can you just imagine what a teenager goes through? Also, more stats for you. While I'm sure there are exceptions to every rule, according to stats children of teen mothers don't do as well in school and have far more problems than children who are brought into this world by adults. In fact studies show that children born to parents 30+ years old have like double the chances of doing well in school. This has been studied to death. Not much good data about teen pregnancy. Prevention is ideal.

Didn't know we were talking America here ;)

Actually, I was involved in Catholic youth groups in my home town in Germany, and believe me, I did put that message into their little brains. The whole thing. Including putting condoms on bananas for training :D
The condoms were actually financed by the diocese...
I am. I havn't looked into teen pregnancy rates in other nations, can't be as bad as the US where sex is villified and people petend they protect teens from ti by preventing them access to both knowledge and contraceptives (for the purpose of contraception)

I agree with you here. Although sadly some teens do want to get pregnant, these are usually girls who come from broken or abusive homes and have the mistaken idea that some how having a baby will bring them the love and affection they missed out on during their own childhood. The fact of the matter is that simply isn't the case. I'm a mother of two children. I have my first at 29 years old and my second at 34 years old. It's hard freaking work being a parent. You only get one chance to make it right. So if a married, grown woman such as myself thinks it's a damn hard job, can you just imagine what a teenager goes through? Also, more stats for you. While I'm sure there are exceptions to every rule, according to stats children of teen mothers don't do as well in school and have far more problems than children who are brought into this world by adults. In fact studies show that children born to parents 30+ years old have like double the chances of doing well in school. This has been studied to death. Not much good data about teen pregnancy. Prevention is ideal.

The only reason why that is true is because society stigmatises teenage families and makes them feel lowly and worthless and that they are condemned to a life of poverty and crap.

If society was more supportive of teenage families then children of teenage parents would do much better in life.

Better sex education and awareness can help. There are some who still think you can't get pregnant on your first sex session.

Along with better sex education in school, I really think parents need to start taking initiative. Do NOT wait for school to teach your kids about sex, it only starts at age 12 or later, which isn't soon enough. Start teaching them where babies come from when they're young. You don't need to go into details or anything, and if you don't want to tell them yourself there are educational videos out there MADE for kids. Tell them more as they get older and teach them to be responsible. Don't expect anyone else to do it for you.

Ihatevacations']I am. I havn't looked into teen pregnancy rates in other nations, can't be as bad as the US where sex is villified and people petend they protect teens from ti by preventing them access to both knowledge and contraceptives (for the purpose of contraception)

There's very little I can say about that attitude without getting forum-banned, really.

But it seems to be a problem with society on the whole, rather thant just individual schools or single religious fanatics. Maybe the same approach would work, though. For a political group and start informing and advertising...

Don't expect anyone else to do it for you.

I diasgree. Society as a whole has as much a responsibility for children as the parents.

Well I think that we need broad programs to prevent teenage pregnancies from occuring, maybe some federal aid to help teens who are pregnant deal with their problem, and a lot of programs to discourage sex and to make sure that our young people do not even try to have sex(but not ignoring condoms). This problem stims from our very culture at times, the only way to end it is to alter that culture because sure there is the moralist christian culture but there is also the sleaziness that pervades movies, television and many more parts of our culture.

Along with better sex education in school, I really think parents need to start taking initiative. Do NOT wait for school to teach your kids about sex, it only starts at age 12 or later, which isn't soon enough. Start teaching them where babies come from when they're young. You don't need to go into details or anything, and if you don't want to tell them yourself there are educational videos out there MADE for kids. Tell them more as they get older and teach them to be responsible. Don't expect anyone else to do it for you.


There are some amazingly good books around as well

Link (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0316101834/qid=1120487477/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_ur_1/102-6499026-3975342?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)

Link (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0763600512/ref=pd_bxgy_img_2/102-6499026-3975342?v=glance&s=books)

Just two examples, I know there are more...

The only reason why that is true is because society stigmatises teenage families and makes them feel lowly and worthless and that they are condemned to a life of poverty and crap.

If society was more supportive of teenage families then children of teenage parents would do much better in life.

Well, mostly I think it has to do with the fact that I'd say 90% if not more teenage mothers aren't mature enough to raise children, they are children themselves. I would be in favour of "returning to school" programs for teenage mothers, which here in Canada there are quite a few. The problem really lies with these girls not being mature enough to have protected sex, let alone mature enough to raise children. Education is the key. And it's not just the schools responsibility, it's also the parents. Trust me, when my kids are old enough I will most certainly sit them down and talk to them about sex and what their responsibilities are if they choose to have sex and what the possible ramifications of not having safe sex can mean, not just teen pregnancy, but also STD's and AIDS. Anyone who advocates not freely giving our children access to birth control in general is not a very responsible member of society themselves.

I mean sure, in again, a perfect world we could teach "abstinence before marriage " but the fact is and stats back this up, that just is unrealistic..Most teens have had sex by the time they finish high school. So we either take our heads out of the sand and realize that teaching abstinence before marriage doesn't work and teaching good sex education does. Well, the problem will not go away until we accept this.

I mean sure, in again, a perfect world we could teach "abstinence before marriage " but the fact is and stats back this up, that just is unrealistic..Most teens have had sex by the time they finish high school. So we either take our heads out of the sand and realize that teaching abstinence before marriage doesn't work and teaching good sex education does. Well, the problem will not go away until we accept this.

Well, they managed abstinence in the past why can't we do it now?

Along with better sex education in school, I really think parents need to start taking initiative. Do NOT wait for school to teach your kids about sex, it only starts at age 12 or later, which isn't soon enough. Start teaching them where babies come from when they're young. You don't need to go into details or anything, and if you don't want to tell them yourself there are educational videos out there MADE for kids. Tell them more as they get older and teach them to be responsible. Don't expect anyone else to do it for you.
A big problem with american culture is that too many kids do not have the proper parental help or guidance. That is why some kids do not try hard to succeed, that is why so many children are involved with negative things, that is why we have most of our problems is because the american people are too stupid to do their own duties and lord over(teach lovingly) their children. I do admit that my ideas of parental duty can be sort of "spare the rod and you spoil the child" but I think that effective parenting uses some authoritarian methods(i mean a parent can not be overly democratic)

Can I Make It Clear That We Are Not All From America, So Please Don't Specify It To America.

I say that we brain wash teenagers before this happens. After all it is less likely to happen if we create a good-old fear of premarital sex that borders obsession. But really I prefer abstinance based education(good abstinance based not lies) because that is what I believe in and would be highly disappointed if I had a child who did not do so(I would still be morally bound to protect them and such but not bound to be very nice). Really though I feel that imposing order on such things is the best way to crush resistance.

Lol.. Well said. :)

Now to start spreading rumors that Sex with girls you haven't married can cause blindness! :D

I honestly think its horrible that teens r doing things like this at a young age! BUT! If u r really commited to helping a child and raising one.. then theres no problem.. I just think we need more funding for teenage pregnancies!

Well, they managed abstinence in the past why can't we do it now?
who, where, and how

Ihatevacations']who, where, and how

Europe and until at least 50 years ago.

And in many Islamic countries today.

Well, they managed abstinence in the past why can't we do it now?

They didn't. At no point in history.

If you have a look at society 50 years back, you will find that it was quite normal to be married at latest by age 20. Women didn't as a general rule get higher education and were married of young.
And that was "civilised society". Go back 100 years or 200 years, and girls were married of by the time they were 13.
"Teenage pregnancies" were the norm, not the exception.

You can still see the extremes this custom takes in places like India, where parents will marry of 9-year-old girls.

Hey not all teens have sex in high-school! I do not think that trying to keep all teens from having sex is an impossible goal. After all I am waiting until marriage before I lose my virginity, the problem is that our culture is not imposing that belief like it could. I think that part of today's problem is that we are being foolish on many issues (including debt, sex, and most other issues involving hedonism).

I diasgree. Society as a whole has as much a responsibility for children as the parents.

Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but you shouldn't expect somebody else to do what you can do yourself. There is some merit to 'if you want it done right, do it yourself.' Especially when it comes to parents that expect the school to raise their children right, then bitch at the educational system when they don't turn out the way they wanted.

Hey not all teens have sex in high-school! I do not think that trying to keep all teens from having sex is an impossible goal. After all I am waiting until marriage before I lose my virginity, the problem is that our culture is not imposing that belief like it could. I think that part of today's problem is that we are being foolish on many issues (including debt, sex, and most other issues involving hedonism).

That's so true.

Modern western culture is all about sex and makes people, who are not getting it, feel as if they are shit basically and worthless.

But I'm not saying that sex before marriage is wrong though.

Well, they managed abstinence in the past why can't we do it now?

Well, it has actually never worked. The difference is more that being a teenager and keeping your baby was unheard of 20, 30, 40 years ago and before that. In the last 15 or so years, teens have been keeping their babies at alarming rates, so we just notice it more. Back in the 1960's, teen mothers were sent off to homes for unwed mothers till they had their babies and gave them up for adoption. Back in the 60's there were tons of children that married couples could adopt. Now, there is like a 7 year waiting period, minimum. Why is that? It's because teens are A) keeping their babies and B) having abortions at a higher rate than in the 60's. (Although abortion has also always been around too)

Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but you shouldn't expect somebody else to do what you can do yourself. There is some merit to 'if you want it done right, do it yourself.' Especially when it comes to parents that expect the school to raise their children right, then bitch at the educational system when they don't turn out the way they wanted.

Well, I'm a much more community minded person, probably due to my Catholic faith.

Oops I am sorry for saying most things about america. It is just that we have a major problem with teen pregnancy. At my school it seems that every year we have a few pregnant teens. But still, I do insist that the problem is cultural, after all I doubt that the few that do not have sex are that psychologically odd that we can not get others to the same philosophy.

That's so true.

Modern western culture is all about sex and makes people, who are not getting it, feel as if they are shit basically and worthless.

But I'm not saying that sex before marriage is wrong though.

Quite, while I personally have no problem with being open about sex, I see a lot of "sex is cool! you must have it as much as possible!" in the media nowadays.

Europe and until at least 50 years ago.
And what basis do you have for this?


And in many Islamic countries today.
Muslims are far stricter about following their religion, and most islamic countries are theocratic dictatorships.

Quite, while I personally have no problem with being open about sex, I see a lot of "sex is cool! you must have it as much as possible!" in the media nowadays.

It's true and that is something that we desperately need to change.

A big problem with american culture is that too many kids do not have the proper parental help or guidance. That is why some kids do not try hard to succeed, that is why so many children are involved with negative things, that is why we have most of our problems is because the american people are too stupid to do their own duties and lord over(teach lovingly) their children. I do admit that my ideas of parental duty can be sort of "spare the rod and you spoil the child" but I think that effective parenting uses some authoritarian methods(i mean a parent can not be overly democratic)

It's a big problem with a lot of (at least Western) societies nowadays. Alot of parents aren't raising their children, they leave it up to other people or sources. Children don't get enough discipline. Though nowadays, a person can't give a kid a light slap on the wrist without risking being flagged down for child abuse. And don't even get me started on all these things to 'protect children's self esteem', like telling teachers not to use red ink to mark things.

Ihatevacations']And what basis do you have for this?

Well, because people listened to the Church then and did as it said which included abstinence.

Obviously not all did, but you can enver guarantee 100% adherance.

It's true and that is something that we desperately need to change.

I believe it has more to do with biology than culture. That is after all what going through puberty is all about.

I say people should be sterilized at birth, a reversible surgical thing, and then, when they're legal adults and if they request it and if they pass a series of psychological evaluations, then they can have it reversed.

Too many people in the world anyway.

Or start making them in factories like in Brave New World.

I believe it has more to do with biology than culture. That is after all what going through puberty is all about.
Well, society wasn't always this hedonistic.

Well, I'm a much more community minded person, probably due to my Catholic faith.

I have nothing against depending on a community to do things for you, but that only works when the community is doing things for you. Otherwise you need to do it yourself. Or at least part of it. The sex ed program I received works better as an extension of things already learned.

I say people should be sterilized at birth, a reversible surgical thing, and then, when they're legal adults and if they request it and if they pass a series of psychological evaluations, then they can have it reversed.

Too many people in the world anyway.

Or start making them in factories like in Brave New World.

Ha, that is either a funny bit of nonsense or a plausible and good idea. It is hard to tell which.

I do think that the problem is cultural because even though biology tells adolescents to have sex, the choice is still theirs.

Oops I am sorry for saying most things about america. It is just that we have a major problem with teen pregnancy. At my school it seems that every year we have a few pregnant teens. But still, I do insist that the problem is cultural, after all I doubt that the few that do not have sex are that psychologically odd that we can not get others to the same philosophy.

Hmm... I went to an all-girls school in Germany in the 1980s and 90s. I was at that school 11 years, in that time 3 girls got pregnant (trust me, gossip at a girls' school knows everything). But then again, we had a pretty thourough sex eductaion, starting from age 10, repeated every single year.

Hmm... I went to an all-girls school in Germany in the 1980s and 90s. I was at that school 11 years, in that time 3 girls got pregnant (trust me, gossip at a girls' school knows everything). But then again, we had a pretty thourough sex eductaion, starting from age 10, repeated every single year.

Lol, that doesn't surprise me.

More education will not help. Neither would beating the children (unless...), abstinences. Maybe if we make it illegal to have premarital sex/enforce the age of consent (I think the age is 18 in US) would help but the liberals wouldn't like #1, but then again who knows. Also we should stop having all those commercials (you know which ones I am talking about).

..
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^

Random Frowny by Jibea

Lol, that doesn't surprise me.

Why?

Oh, just so I will not be accused of hiding facts again :

The school was a Catholic school in Southern Germany, run by a Jesuit convent, there were around 3000 girls at that school each year, and I only know of 3 that were still virgins when leaving with 18/19. ;)

If anybody had a conclusive answer to this, they would be in line for a Nobel Prize. But I think it is pretty clear that cultures with high expectations for their children to perform well in school and go on to higher education, and monitor boy-girl interactions very closely, may have something to teach us about nurturing our young people.

Why?

Oh, just so I will not be accused of hiding facts again :

The school was a Catholic school in Southern Germany, run by a Jesuit convent, there were around 3000 girls at that school each year, and I only know of 3 that were still virgins when leaving with 18/19. ;)

Well, I'm sure you know of the rumours about Catholic girls and convent schools especially.

Well, I'm sure you know of the rumours about Catholic girls and convent schools especially.

Plenty. But I'd like to know which specific one you are refering to?

Hmm... I went to an all-girls school in Germany in the 1980s and 90s. I was at that school 11 years, in that time 3 girls got pregnant (trust me, gossip at a girls' school knows everything). But then again, we had a pretty thourough sex eductaion, starting from age 10, repeated every single year.

Well, it is a lot less than what my school has. The response is to discover the psychological cause of this happening(there has to be a reason and biology alone does not describe human nature). Then once we have found the reasons, impose the cure on a national or international level. After all totalitarian solutions to solve problems of rampant individualism.

Then after that fails we just do what any good theocracy would do and execute the fools. :D

The school was a Catholic school in Southern Germany, run by a Jesuit convent, there were around 3000 girls at that school each year, and I only know of 3 that were still virgins when leaving with 18/19. ;)
Do you have their phone numbers? I'd like to verify that. :)

Plenty. But I'd like to know which specific one you are refering to?

Well, the fact that they are not virgins or good little Catholic girls at all.

Well, it is a lot less than what my school has. The response is to discover the psychological cause of this happening(there has to be a reason and biology alone does not describe human nature). Then once we have found the reasons, impose the cure on a national or international level. After all totalitarian solutions to solve problems of rampant individualism.

Then after that fails we just do what any good theocracy would do and execute the fools. :D

You are looking for the PSYCHOLOGICAL cause behind the sexual instinct? You are trying to CURE the sex drive?

Have you been at the frankincense again???

:D :D :D :D :D

It's true and that is something that we desperately need to change.

Personally I'd like to see it changed into "Hey guess what, sex is fun, if you do it responsibly. Sex should be about enjoying yourself, and making your partner enjoy themselves, not about worrying whether you're cool enough or getting pregnant/STD's. (btw, here's how not to get pregnant/STD's)".

Personally I'd like to see it changed into "Hey guess what, sex is fun, if you do it responsibly. Sex should be about enjoying yourself, and making your partner enjoy themselves, not about worrying whether you're cool enough or getting pregnant/STD's. (btw, here's how not to get pregnant/STD's)".

And the fact that it is sacred and a gift from God. ;)

Well, society wasn't always this hedonistic.

Ah yes, sex, that dirty disgusting thing that you save for the one you love..lol :D

Sex is a beautiful way to share yourself with some one you love.. there is nothing "hedonistic" about it. But people will believe what they believe. ;)

Well, the fact that they are not virgins or good little Catholic girls at all.

Well, that one is true, for most of them anyway :D

What you forgot is that they cope with any situation amazingly well. What our school taught us was responsibility and self respect. You don't have sex because somebody else says it's cool. You have it when, how and where you enjoy it. and you know how to prevent the negative effects, too.

Personally I'd like to see it changed into "Hey guess what, sex is fun, if you do it responsibly. Sex should be about enjoying yourself, and making your partner enjoy themselves, not about worrying whether you're cool enough or getting pregnant/STD's. (btw, here's how not to get pregnant/STD's)".

Almost no one would listen to that, unless they like to laugh at it, or if shown to little three to ten year olds, constantly in their most favorite shows.

And the fact that it is sacred and a gift from God. ;)

Another reason to treasure and enjoy it in a sensible way, not to lock it away, condemn it and call it filthy and immoral :D

Ah yes, sex, that dirty disgusting thing that you save for the one you love..lol :D

Sex is a beautiful way to share yourself with some one you love.. there is nothing "hedonistic" about it. But people will believe what they believe. ;)

Well, I never said sex was hedonistic I said our culture and society was hedonistic.

Almost no one would listen to that, unless they like to laugh at it, or if shown to little three to ten year olds, constantly in their most favorite shows.

Why not? By the time they're 14 or 16, they'll have at least memorised the message.

Another reason to treasure and enjoy it in a sensible way, not to lock it away, condemn it and call it filthy and immoral :D

Well, I never said that it was filthy and immoral.

Well, I never said that it was filthy and immoral.

... and I never said you did.

Why not? By the time they're 14 or 16, they'll have at least memorised the message.

Memorising the message and listening to it are different things.

Well, I never said sex was hedonistic I said our culture and society was hedonistic.

I disagree personally.

But I certainly won't argue your beliefs with you, as they are your beliefs. Just know that not everyone shares that same point of view. You have every right to believe as you wish. But then again, so do people who don't believe the same as you. :)

And the fact that it is sacred and a gift from God. ;)

Feel free to add that message on Christian stations/airtime.

Memorising the message and listening to it are different things.

Well, you can't force them to do anything, they are teenagers, remember? Whatever you'll say, they are very likely to do just the opposite. But I think Teletubbies Sex Education or a Sesame Street "Don't get pregnant" Special would find its way into their subconscience

But then again, so do people who don't believe the same as you. :)

Well, that's where we disagree lol!

Well, I never said that it was filthy and immoral.

Abusing it is though.

Feel free to add that message on Christian stations/airtime.

It would have to be Catholic radio lol because I would be too busy telling the Southern Protestants how heretical they are lol!

You are looking for the PSYCHOLOGICAL cause behind the sexual instinct? You are trying to CURE the sex drive?

Have you been at the frankincense again???

:D :D :D :D :D

Well, I can not think of a more effective thing to do than to cure the sex drive. I mean, it is probably the easiest thing to do(people are too stupid any other way). Besides sex is not meant to be some common and hedonistic thing. It is meant as something for married people to enjoy and use to have children. As well the sex instinct is not actually what I am talking about, I am seeking the reason why these stupid children will not listen to us and obey us (although curing the sex drive would work).

Europe and until at least 50 years ago.
There were teenage pregnancies then, it was just not discussed as much. As another poster wrote, there were a lot of babies given up for adoption.

There was also always abortion, which caused a lot of deaths due to its hidden backroom nature.

As to no sex before marriage, I read that in rural Bavaria most brides were in fact pregnant, as the groom wanted to make sure that his bride-to-be was fertile :)

Well, that's where we disagree lol!

Are you saying that nobody has the right to believe anything differing from your own beliefs? Didn't we just have that discussion elsewhere? Free will, remember? Free will to choose to believe or to reject it...

I'd have to go with the consensus and agree that education needs to be improved hugely. It should start at an earlier age to try to get people to be open and comfortable talking about sex and contraception.

Contraception should be much more readily available to anyone of any age.

More support should be given to teenage mothers (and fathers). In a perfect world all the children would be born into a ready, supportive, loving family. But it isn't a perfect world.

There also needs to be a breakdown of the image of teenage pregnancy. All it does is make people who are worried they may be pregnant feel scared, embarassed and ashamed. This means they're less likely to get help and support and will be even less able to cope. Outcasting them does nothing to help them or their child.

I also hate the idea of blame. It does nothing. I'm pretty damn sure they'll feel bad enough, have learnt from their mistake and will be suffering greatly from the situation they know they got themselves into. I also hate people making generalisations and judging all teenage mothers as irresponsible whores. It's ridiculous.

Are you saying that nobody has the right to believe anything differing from your own beliefs? Didn't we just have that discussion elsewhere? Free will, remember? Free will to choose to believe or to reject it...

Lol we did and I can't help it if I'm authoritarian like that and don't like people disagreeing with me. I'm an Aries for God's sake!

As to no sex before marriage, I read that in rural Bavaria most brides were in fact pregnant, as the groom wanted to make sure that his bride-to-be was fertile :)
I think that was the norm on most of the world. Plus most women were getting married at, what? 16, 15? 21 at the oldest?

Well, that's where we disagree lol!

Oh? So you believe that people don't have a right to have their own beliefs if they differ from yours? Or did I just misunderstand what you just said here?

Memorising the message and listening to it are different things.

Children pick up behaviour and knowledge very easily. If they hear it often enough in while they're developing, it'll stick with them one way or another.

It also might help to stop mystifying sex. Or whatever you would call what makes kids giggle at words like 'penis', and be embarrassed to talk about sex with their parents. Part of the reason why sexual things are so popular in the media might be because it still has a 'forbidden' feeling to it. It's 'dirty', and for a lot of teenagers, they don't see that as a bad thing. Though I'm not saying sex is a bad thing, or dirty. More that seeing sex AS 'dirty' and revelling in that kinda is. It makes more sense in my head than in words.

Oh? So you believe that people don't have a right to have their own beliefs if they differ from yours? Or did I just misunderstand what you just said here?

Lol, well yes you are right, I don't believe that they have a right to their own beliefs if they drastically differ from mine - and I decide, too, what is drastically differing!

Well, I can not think of a more effective thing to do than to cure the sex drive. I mean, it is probably the easiest thing to do(people are too stupid any other way). Besides sex is not meant to be some common and hedonistic thing. It is meant as something for married people to enjoy and use to have children. As well the sex instinct is not actually what I am talking about, I am seeking the reason why these stupid children will not listen to us and obey us (although curing the sex drive would work).

Psychologically speaking, puberty is the time in life when children become selfaware and try to distance themselves from their parents. They start forming their own opinions and are thus preparing to live their own lifes.
If you've ever seen a poor creature who didn't conclude this process you will know what I'm talking about. Think principal Seymour Skinner, for example.

There are drugs that will hem the sex drive, at least in males. But administering drugs without consent is illegal, simple as that.

And : Sex was meant for reproduction, that's why it's such a powerful drive. It was never meant for married or unmarried people, that concept doesn't exist in nature. Religion superimposed that on society, leaving it rather srewed up and disoriented at the moment.
If you only want to have sex when married, fine, your choice. But if I want to have sex before that, my choice.

Lol, well yes you are right, I don't believe that they have a right to their own beliefs if they drastically differ from mine - and I decide, too, what is drastically differing!

If I remember correctly, the bible has something to say about selfappointed teachers of religion... it's not very nice, either :D

Lol, well yes you are right, I don't believe that they have a right to their own beliefs if they drastically differ from mine - and I decide, too, what is drastically differing!

Yikes - Don't think I'm going to touch this with a ten foot pole..lol I'm afraid of what I might say.. and yes, it would probably offend you. So I shall refrain..lol

Lol, well yes you are right, I don't believe that they have a right to their own beliefs if they drastically differ from mine - and I decide, too, what is drastically differing!
Fortunately you have no right or authority to impose your beliefs. So, I guess everyone's happy! :)

What you forgot is that they cope with any situation amazingly well. What our school taught us was responsibility and self respect. You don't have sex because somebody else says it's cool. You have it when, how and where you enjoy it. and you know how to prevent the negative effects, too.
They did the same at the schools I went to (one was a catholic boys school). In the mixed school we had 1 pregnancy during my time (6 years). I would say that about 2/3 to 3/4 of the kids had had sex by the time they left school. We were educated, had self respect and yet were not made feel guilty if we indulged in a bit of hanky panky or if we refused, because we wanted to wait for the right person. We could decide for ourselves and knew how to protect us.

The latter was especially driven home by the fact that when Cabra (I guess) and I were in our puberty the HIV virus had just been discovered. Suddenly this thing we were all looking forward had this threatening (because noone new anything) cloud hanging over it. Our teachers made double sure to tell us where to put that condom ;)

I know why sex is a powerful drive. As well I will admit that children do have to form some opinions. I just do not think that certain opinions are meant to be held due to their dangerous nature. I am not trying to create a wuss, I am trying to create a strong and powerful being that has the qualities of morality and obedience.

I am not trying to create a wuss, I am trying to create a strong and powerful being that has the qualities of morality and obedience.

Try a golem.

Lol, well yes you are right, I don't believe that they have a right to their own beliefs if they drastically differ from mine - and I decide, too, what is drastically differing!
I don't believe I have a right to care about your beliefs

Lol we did and I can't help it if I'm authoritarian like that and don't like people disagreeing with me. I'm an Aries for God's sake!

Hey! I'm Aries and not authoritarian at all! :p

I know why sex is a powerful drive. As well I will admit that children do have to form some opinions. I just do not think that certain opinions are meant to be held due to their dangerous nature. I am not trying to create a wuss, I am trying to create a strong and powerful being that has the qualities of morality and obedience.

Obedience is a two-edged sword... and so is morality.
Obedience to an authority that merit obedience is a good thing. Forced obedience will never be more than lip-service. It will lead to the same moral dilemma the Catholic Europe keeps talking about, the stigmatisation of children who did have sex, were disobedient, and are accordingly forced to go through hell.
What we need is not blind obedience and strict morality, we need rationality and trust.
we need to get the children informed what's in store for them, what the consequences are, how to protect themselves, not to engage in sexual activity unless they themselves really feel ready and want it, and in case one of them does get pregnant, she will need compassion, understanding, advise and help.

:sniper:

http://www.misanthropic-bitch.com/hot_pregnant_teens_here.html

:sniper:

http://www.misanthropic-bitch.com/hot_pregnant_teens_here.html

Wow... that's some tough bitching...

Hey! I'm Aries and not authoritarian at all! :p

Lol, well you can't be a proper Aries then. Aries are meant to be leaders, stubborn, selfhish, arrogant, authoritarian etc.

Lol, well you can't be a proper Aries then. Aries are meant to be leaders, stubborn, selfhish, arrogant, authoritarian etc.

I think you are confussing that with Leos...

I think you are confussing that with Leos...
No, I'm bloody not. I know my stuff on horoscopes. You go and have a look here (http://www.kellystarsigns.com/)!

[QUOTE=Cabra West. No teenager wants to get pregnant...[/QUOTE]

Beg to differ, there are idjet teenagers who are sleeping with anything male simply so they can have a baby.

Well, they managed abstinence in the past why can't we do it now?

NO They did NOT manage abstinence in the past. You are kidding yourself mightly if you believe that to be true.
There was a reason for the bad jokes about 'shot-gun' marriages and 'first baby doesn't take nine and a half months to be born....'

Read some REAL history.

Well, they managed abstinence in the past why can't we do it now?

ROTFLASTC

On what basis do you make such an amusing statement?

Virginity Pledgers More Likely to Engage in Risky Sexual Behavior Including Oral and Anal Sex (http://www.siecus.org/media/press/press0094.html)

Decline In Teen Pregnancy Rates Due To Both Less Sexual Activity and More Contraceptive Use -- More Evidence that Young People Benefit From a Comprehensive Approach to Sexuality Education (http://www.siecus.org/media/press/press0068.html)

Virginity Pledges Do Not Reduce Rates of Sexually Transmitted Diseases (http://www.siecus.org/media/press/press0053.html)

...... I've got lots more!

AND, BTW:
Teen Birth Rate at Historic Low in 2002 An Overall 30 % Decline in the Past Decade (http://www.siecus.org/media/press/press0045.html)

ROTFLASTC

On what basis do you make such an amusing statement?


On the basis of highly wishful thinking, what else?

(/sarc) didn't you know, everybody behaved SOOO much better 30, 40 or 50 years ago? They were ALL pure as the driven snow (/sarc off)

Beats knowing the true status of things....