NationStates Jolt Archive

An old article I came across:
http://premium.cnn.com/2005/US/06/23/poll.america.ap/

What do you Conservatives make of this? I suppose it certainly explains why, coupled with Bush's historically-low approval rating, our patriotism has sunk so low to the point that we must amend the Constitution to prevent flag-burning.

June 24, 2005 isn't exactly...old...

Well I'm not supprised with the French :)

And that's bad because... China is evil and nobody should like them? :eek:

I have to say that I prefer America. I don't trust communists. Anyway... lots of us still like you.

Yeah, what a stupid idea - China hasnt made nearly as much of a threat to other countries as the US has. Just because people dont like communists doesnt mean that they prefer the US.

I have to say that I prefer America. I don't trust communists. Anyway... lots of us still like you.

Well, not that many really. I dont think Brits mind commies as much as the US does, nor do many mind commies as much as the US, if you see the difference in semantics...

Well, not that many really. I dont think Brits mind commies as much as the US does, nor do many mind commies as much as the US, if you see the difference in semantics...

I can see no comparison. America, despite its mistakes and problems, is the greatest democracy in the world, whereas China is a corrupt, totalitarian regime, where children are killed in starvation chambers and people are a=only now allowed to travel abroad. you work it out

Well I'm not supprised with the French :)
And Britain, Canada, Spain, Netherlands, Turkey, Pakistan, and Jordan?

Take a look at the Pew Institute's various polls. The majority of the world doesn't like the United States.

http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=247

I'm sure many of you would say, "WHO GIVES A SHIT?!" but that just demonstrates the same arrogance which is why they hate us.

It's also interesting to note, in their other poll, they noted that:

1. Politicians are divided on ensuring peace through diplomacy versus military strength (Democrats somewhat favoring diplomacy, Republicans somewhat favoring military strength).

2. Politicians are divided on requiring international support for foreign policy (Democrats somewhat favoring support, Republicans somewhat favoring U.S. interests).

3. Republicans agree on moral issues (ethics of homosexuality, if belief in God is necessary, if government should legislate morality), Democrats are divided on them.

4. Democrats are divided on whether regulation of business is good, whether environmental regulations are worth it, whether immigration is good, and whether hardwork guarantees success.

5. Republicans are divided on whether to help the needy even if it drives the government into debt, whether corporations are too powerful, whether regulation of business is necessary, whether strict environmental regulations are worth it, and whether immigration is good.

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?PageID=946

I can see no comparison. America, despite its mistakes and problems, is the greatest democracy in the world, whereas China is a corrupt, totalitarian regime, where children are killed in starvation chambers and people are a=only now allowed to travel abroad. you work it out

America isnt the best democracy in the world, its just the most powerful - In terms of peoples choice of candidate its pretty crap. Anyway, we arent going to politically hate China for its choice of government, its about what they do to us - Imagine US style government in China - I'm sure more would starve from not being able to make a living than what the government do.

I can see no comparison. America, despite its mistakes and problems, is the greatest democracy in the world,

I like America, but I'm curious why it's the greatest democracy in the world?

I can see no comparison. America, despite its mistakes and problems, is the greatest democracy in the world, whereas China is a corrupt, totalitarian regime, where children are killed in starvation chambers and people are a=only now allowed to travel abroad. you work it out
And guess who gives that totalitarian regime with starvation chambers, most of their funding?

And guess who gives that totalitarian regime with starvation chambers, most of their funding?

Whoever gets the most economic benefit out of others suffering...who could this be...Latvia....or is it Zimbabwe?

Whoever gets the most economic benefit out of others suffering...who could this be...Latvia....or is it Zimbabwe?
CUBA

CUBA

No no, they make cigars...we can forgive them. Blame Canada....

lol Europeans.

We're not all idiots, as Carops shows, and as I entirely back up.

I think its because:
A) China hasn't really threatened any nations
B) its still a skinny nerd with a skin condition compared to the super jock nation of America ( though its started going to the gym)
C) China covers up anything that will be a bad image
D) anyone who really try's to spread the hate "vanishes"
E) China is the most likely nation to start WW3 so most nations try to keep the populace happy about it

So? George Washington said that the only alliances that we should have are those of the most expideient nature. I agree with that statement. Let others say what they want, but the minute they attack us, we'll still be ready to fight.

I think its because:
A) China hasn't really threatened any nations
B) its still a skinny nerd with a skin condition compared to the super jock nation of America ( though its started going to the gym)
C) China covers up anything that will be a bad image
D) anyone who really try's to spread the hate "vanishes"
E) China is the most likely nation to start WW3 so most nations try to keep the populace happy about it
B) China has the second strongest military in the world, with the most manpower of any military (seriously outnumbering the U.S.), and the second greatest amount of funding (but being seriously outfunded by the U.S.). If China increased their military funding, their military could be equal to or even stronger than America's... Conservatives deny that, though, based on the claim that America has superior technology.

So? George Washington said that the only alliances that we should have are those of the most expideient nature. I agree with that statement. Let others say what they want, but the minute they attack us, we'll still be ready to fight.
George Washington also said that the Native Americans would benefit from converting to Christianity. I think we can say he was a bit ignorant, a bit biased, and a general, not a politician.

Awwwgh come on guys.

1) The USA has very low popularity ratings worldwide right now, but it's more related to the current administration's attitude (anti-diplomacy) than "anti-americanism" (which is usually used to define any criticism whatsoever).
2) Nobody really likes China.
3) Let's say there is a conflict between the US and China. ALL Nato countries WILL back the US. Not because they're part of Nato, but because it's the only decent thing to do.

I guess this thread is just a pretext for bashing "THEM" (all countries except the US).

Awwwgh come on guys.

1) The USA has very low popularity ratings worldwide right now, but it's more related to the current administration's attitude (anti-diplomacy) than "anti-americanism" (which is usually used to define any criticism whatsoever).
2) Nobody really likes China.
3) Let's say there is a conflict between the US and China. ALL Nato countries WILL back the US. Not because they're part of Nato, but because it's the only decent thing to do.

I guess this thread is just a pretext for bashing "THEM" (all countries except the US).

Not familiar with Shrubby's usual work, I see... no, he's saying China is more legitimate than the U.S. based on international popularity.

Oddly enough, I find the attitude expressed in his link to the Pew Institute rather comforting-Popularity internationally is the most flimsy thing you can imagine, and Nations are composites of the lowest-common-denominator when it comes to policy. If the only choice is to either be loved, or feared, it's more reliable to be feared than loved. as the man said more than a century ago, "Nations do not have friends, only interests."

To trust in the love of a stranger is to put your fate on a bad bet.

E) China is the most likely nation to start WW3 ..nope.

Israel is the most likely nation to start WW3...either Israel or one of their enemies...

Either way Israel is going to be in the middle of it.

B) China has the second strongest military in the world...China has the lrgest military...

but is not the second or the Third military Power.

3) Let's say there is a conflict between the US and China. ALL Nato countries WILL back the US. depends...

if the US attacks China...like in Iraq...the EU will not back the US...

only if China attacks the US...only then EU will back the US...

depends...

if the US attacks China...like in Iraq...the EU will not back the US...

only if China attacks the US...only then EU will back the US...

Actually, I would suspect that if China Attacked the U.S., the EU would sit it out in hopes that the two would annihilate one another.
I have zero faith that the U.S. can count on anyone in Europe with the possible exception (maybe) of Great Britain in that event. then again, that's pretty much how I saw it back during the Cold War days too-if the Soviets had attacked America and left the European front alone, America would have found itself standing alone.

In the case of a China-invades-US scenario, I actually expect Germany, France, Italy, etc. to probably pursue trade in arms with China rather than military intervention on America's behalf-probably in exchange for some of the US territory left unradiated. Why? because if China is attacking the United States, they're biggest, and being biggest means Europe is your friend.

Cheerful Guy, ain't I? Before you Euros get in a fuss, here's why:

Europe will do what benefits European interests first-this is the tendency. CHINA is one-sixth of the world. China has nuclear weapons, if China is Attacking the United states, it's because China can effectively project its power across the widest ocean in the world. Against that, the comparatively unarmed EU doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell. See, Chinese generally don't make the Beauregard mistake and attack when they aren't ready. An attack against the U.S means China's laid the diplomatic, military, and logistical frameworks necessary to overcome the United STates, which means they can take anyone else to the cleaners.

No no, they make cigars...we can forgive them. Blame Canada....

off topic I know but I noticed a fellow essex boy. Hi

Actually, I would suspect that if China Attacked the U.S., the EU would sit it out in hopes that the two would annihilate one another.
I have zero faith that the U.S. can count on anyone in Europe with the possible exception (maybe) of Great Britain in that event. then again, that's pretty much how I saw it back during the Cold War days too-if the Soviets had attacked America and left the European front alone, America would have found itself standing alone.

In the case of a China-invades-US scenario, I actually expect Germany, France, Italy, etc. to probably pursue trade in arms with China rather than military intervention on America's behalf-probably in exchange for some of the US territory left unradiated. Why? because if China is attacking the United States, they're biggest, and being biggest means Europe is your friend.

Cheerful Guy, ain't I? Before you Euros get in a fuss, here's why:

Europe will do what benefits European interests first-this is the tendency. CHINA is one-sixth of the world. China has nuclear weapons, if China is Attacking the United states, it's because China can effectively project its power across the widest ocean in the world. Against that, the comparatively unarmed EU doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell. See, Chinese generally don't make the Beauregard mistake and attack when they aren't ready. An attack against the U.S means China's laid the diplomatic, military, and logistical frameworks necessary to overcome the United STates, which means they can take anyone else to the cleaners.

The reality as of today is that the US can attack and destroy China...without little or no nukes making it to the US...

#1 China has no Judgment-Day stealth subs.
#2 There is a gulf of military tech difference between US and China.
#3 almost all Chinese Ballistic missiles are short and medium range.

China is better equiped to destroy Russia...than to destroy the USA.

This is so not fair. Once things get tough, I'm trapped in the American empire.

This is so not fair. Once things get tough, I'm trapped in the American empire.

When in the name of God did we become an empire? And how are you trapped here? You can leave here at anytime.

The reality as of today is that the US can attack and destroy China...without little or no nukes making it to the US...

#1 China has no Judgment-Day stealth subs.
#2 There is a gulf of military tech difference between US and China.
#3 almost all Chinese Ballistic missiles are short and medium range.

China is better equiped to destroy Russia...than to destroy the USA.

Which is exactly why China won't /attack/ the US. Not yet. If China starts a war with the US - directly, I mean, not through the medium of China supporting somewhere the US invades, or vice versa - then it'll certainly be in a state where it'll have a fighting chance, or even where victory is guarenteed. Basically, if China ever attacks the US, the cities are /not/ gonna be the place to be. And if Europe gets involved...well, we'd have to be suicidal to do so. Let's hope we aren't, and that the new arms race doesn't get too close.

When in the name of God did we become an empire? And how are you trapped here? You can leave here at anytime.

True. And anyway, I'd rather be in the American Empire than in the Chinese Empire, where protestors are run over by tanks and people imprisoned for simply having opinions.

Empire:
"A political unit having an extensive territory or comprising a number of territories or nations and ruled by a single supreme authority. "

The US is only one nation and has no supreme authority since the three balance each other. It is only a big country, but not an empire.

When in the name of God did we become an empire? And how are you trapped here? You can leave here at anytime.

If I'm less popular than the Chinese, then no, I can't leave.

If I'm less popular than the Chinese, then no, I can't leave.
wtf that made no sense

And that's bad because... China is evil and nobody should like them? :eek:

Actually its both China and the United States of America are evil.

They're both gas guzzlers, aaaarrrrrgggg! When the gas prices gonna fall. :mad:

Actually its both China and the United States of America are evil.

Not the country. I'm an American and not evil; however, I think it was more directed at our President rather than the nation itself. :)

wtf that made no sense

It made perfect sense. If I'm less popular than China, then how can I leave? I won't be liked at all.

It made perfect sense. If I'm less popular than China, then how can I leave? I won't be liked at all.

Anyone who doesn't like you because of your nationality is as bad as the hardline "with us or against us" types that make people dislike America. They are intolerant and bigoted, to say the least.

Anyone who doesn't like you because of your nationality is as bad as the hardline "with us or against us" types that make people dislike America. They are intolerant and bigoted, to say the least.

Those people exist, anyway.

But in those same polls that say China at the moment is seen more as a positive force than the United States, even in Britain its roughly 55% view the US in a positive light and 60% view China in a positive light, IF you read on they also asked if respondants would wish to see China supersede the United States as the world's primary superpower, and a vast majority say no. With the United States it can be said that we as the standing superpower may not always be loved, but it is seen as far more desirable than any conceivable alternative. Aka why it was prefered over the USSR, if China did attempt to challenge the United States for world supremacy, I would highly doubt that Europe would be anywhere beyond the US camp, for one must also consider that the US is a European nation by foundation and culture, and that world dominance or even the spectre of world dominance by an Asian power may not be taken very well in Europe.

Not familiar with Shrubby's usual work, I see... no, he's saying China is more legitimate than the U.S. based on international popularity.
Well if they've asked the questions separately...

1. Do you like the US?

2. Do you like China?

Then it is totally un-scientific to do any assumption about people's allegiance or choice between both. It's very unidimentional, to say the least.

It doesn't say ANYTHING about what people would do if they're faced with a choice -- backing China or the US. We may not like the US much (current administration sucks, Clinton nostalgia, missing Grunge and so on), but if you ask me to CHOOSE BETWEEN the US and China, come one! The answer's obvious. Only totally suicidal freaks would choose otherwise. And since these guys tend to be a tiny minority...

Popularity / fondness have nothing to do with the politics of war, which are based on cold fact and on the survival instinct.

So for instance, currently 63% of Canadians disapprove of the Bush government. OK, it's their opinion, and they usually don't bug you with that... but come on, if there is a global conflict, they won't take their guns and go fight for Communist China on the Pacific islands. To pretend such a thing would be, ahem, lunatic

One thing we must agree: in 1989, 16 years ago (I remember I'm old) china was the country who was repressing students with tanks and USA the country who defended the ways of freedom. Today american tanks are runing over people in Iraq and china is defending the rights of 3rd world countries in Global trade agreements.

Many things change in 16 years....

One thing we must agree: in 1989, 16 years ago (I remember I'm old) china was the country who was repressing students with tanks and USA the country who defended the ways of freedom. Today american tanks are runing over people in Iraq and china is defending the rights of 3rd world countries in Global trade agreements.

Many things change in 16 years....

Yes, we're just running over so many children.
And China certainly didn't do anything to make words like "freedom" and "human rights" impossible to see over the internet, because the CCP just loves freedom so much. :rolleyes:

In all honesty, I don't care traditional American allies view China more favorably. The important and developing ones, India, Poland, and Canada, still seems to like us...(okay, I'm a bit perturbed at the Brits)
I also get to laugh at France and Germany. Our "favorable" ratings fell 15 points in one night, just because we invaded Iraq. You would think, looking at these points, President Bush would have authorized eating French babies or something (except we'd be best buddies with the UK :p )

Freud would probably look at all this "US is better than China to have as a superpower" and conclude that you all are racists without knowing it....
:D

I also get to laugh at France and Germany. Our "favorable" ratings fell 15 points in one night, just because we invaded Iraq.
You don't think that's a good reason?

But in those same polls that say China at the moment is seen more as a positive force than the United States, even in Britain its roughly 55% view the US in a positive light and 60% view China in a positive light, IF you read on they also asked if respondants would wish to see China supersede the United States as the world's primary superpower, and a vast majority say no. With the United States it can be said that we as the standing superpower may not always be loved, but it is seen as far more desirable than any conceivable alternative. Aka why it was prefered over the USSR, if China did attempt to challenge the United States for world supremacy, I would highly doubt that Europe would be anywhere beyond the US camp, for one must also consider that the US is a European nation by foundation and culture, and that world dominance or even the spectre of world dominance by an Asian power may not be taken very well in Europe.

You got that right! Once Americans do with Bush as Italians made with Mussolini USA credit rating among Europe will rise again. Lets face it: China's main monument is a wall, USA's is a french statue.

I can see no comparison. America, despite its mistakes and problems, is the greatest democracy in the world

Haha, no.

Which is exactly why China won't /attack/ the US. Not yet. If China starts a war with the US - directly, I mean, not through the medium of China supporting somewhere the US invades, or vice versa - then it'll certainly be in a state where it'll have a fighting chance, or even where victory is guarenteed. Basically, if China ever attacks the US, the cities are /not/ gonna be the place to be. And if Europe gets involved...well, we'd have to be suicidal to do so. Let's hope we aren't, and that the new arms race doesn't get too close.

Exactly my point. China is the homeland of Sun-Tzu, and don't for a second think they don't study his book. When, not If, China is ready to take the U.S. in a direct fight, the Europeans won't be much help for th U.S. at all. I give us one in a hundered chance of surviving when that day comes, (and it will. Unlike the Soviets, the Chinese dumped the malfunctioning economic system and kept the Oligarchial politics. More Fascist than Communist, and unlike USSR, the West has no embargoes to hamstring their economic growth and force them into bankruptcy.)
The last thirty-three years have set the PRC up to become the next Global Superpower sometime ten to twenty years from now. They're already developing a navy that can, in time, project force globally, and they're building power stations and factories as fast as they can-often with American money for Multinational Corporations. This means they have the $$$ to not only build up their might, but maintain it without a regme of damaging rationing. Add in a growing population of unpaired males reaching military age, and you've got conquest soup. Europes shift to the Chinese camp is a sign of simple interest in self-preservation-they know that going against China isn't like going against the U.S. when China's ready, there won't be such a thing as mercy.

I need to say something in favour of America. Because America is a democratic country with a free press, it was far easier to expose America's mistakes than exposing China's shortcomings, especially if the government wants to project China as a power rising peacefully.

The human rights' record in China is still very appalling. Everybody complains about Guantanamo because you know about it. Do you know how many work camps there still are in China, where people are jailed because of religious beliefs and political dissent?

Once, maybe. But I also am rather fond of the first french constution, and the formation of parliment. I like the diplomatic pratices of the Norse and that entire area. Are we the best? No. We could be, but we're not.

We're just the biggest. That's all.

What gets me is with our...I guess power is the only word, we could do SO MUCH good. Call me an idealist, but I honestly believe that old saying. "To those whom much is given, much is expected."

The US takes a major amout of the world's resorces, and it gives back...coca cola, pepsi and a number of sweat shops and other cooporate abuses. Go us.

Not to say they don't do good, but in my eyes the first thing on our agenda should be getting these "honest" companies back under control. Not regulating them to within an inch of thier lives, not at all. But rather saying "No, you don't own the rain that falls from the sky. I'm sorry. The people's water needs exceed your company needs to make profit." Just a few common sence riles. "You have to pay them enough to live on. Otherwise there's no point in them working."

And most importantly, no you are a company, a group of people trying to make money. You have no finger nails or toe nails. You have no lungs or knees.

You are not a person. Trust me on this. I know a person on sight.

That's the thing though. These companies pay the people in charge off big time. And I'm seriously getting frustrated. :headbang:

If anyone has any bright ideas on how to beat that one, feel free to tell me. I'll pass it on.

Both parties have problems, but I just get fed up with a few things. Forgive if this is old news. I'm used to speaking to my brother about stuff like this. (Now I get to talk to people from outside the country - go me!)

But what do do the populations from Europe, Asia, Scandinavia, South America, and so forth think of us. Goodness knows we hardly know what to think of ourselves.

Just a question, if you don't mind.

I need to say something in favour of America. Because America is a democratic country with a free press, it was far easier to expose America's mistakes than exposing China's shortcomings, especially if the government wants to project China as a power rising peacefully.

The human rights' record in China is still very appalling. Everybody complains about Guantanamo because you know about it. Do you know how many work camps there still are in China, where people are jailed because of religious beliefs and political dissent?
so... what is mood in Hong Kong streets about their "partnership" with China ?

and what do they think about Taiwan?

Everyone knows China is more equiped to take over Taiwain when they get tired of pussy footing around the issue. China is deff equiped to head into North Korea in case something starts up.

Europeon ignorance at its best, when China starts to wreck havoc upon your economy via economic terrorisim then we will see a nice lil opinion change on that front.

China is defending third world countries in Global Trade Agreements because it favors China to do so. China has a awesome economy because it has a lack of labour laws, anyone ever heard of a Union starting up in China? You would be luckly to hear a rumor about it before a Government Police Officer brought you in for "Questioning".


One thing you all must keep in mind, America is the way it is because Americans want it that way and made it that way and with democracy it can change.
Then you have China, the only way it changes is by what they wish to show you.
You can see America for what it truely is because America cant hide anything for too long, Free Press and all...

so... what is mood in Hong Kong streets about their "partnership" with China ?

and what do they think about Taiwan?

Changing...it's hard to define. Most of us are awakening to the potential political power we have. There is a substantial call for universal suffrage, but some radicals want independence and the overthrow of the Communist Party in the Mainland.

The opinion is split on Taiwan. We are very careful to define the problem. While I think most of us think that Taiwan is part of China, I think we are equally reluctant to allow the Communist Party take over the first and only post of democratic capitalism.

But what do do the populations from Europe, Asia, Scandinavia, South America, and so forth think of us. Goodness knows we hardly know what to think of ourselves.

Just a question, if you don't mind.
Welcome then. That's hard to answer without generalising.
If you wanna hear it, I suggest making a thread with that topic and trying to keep it under control (people often start using inappropriate language after a few exchanges... ;) )

I have traveled extensively throughout the United States and China, so I hope that my experience and thoughts may be helpful to the topics raised in this thread.

First, a little background. As Al-Plotting has noted, many things have changed in 16 years. (For that matter, most of China has changed dramatically within only 9 years and entire cities have been erected in only 5 years). Much of this change is embodied in China’s new president, Jintao Hu. Unlike previous leaders of the party, Hu was never a military leader (before becoming president, Hu was a college professor). Jintao Hu has engaged the world much more actively than his predecessor. Many see him as a man who may potentially bring liberal reforms to China’s closed political policies. In many regards, this is true; however, he is no romantic and has enforced a number of crack downs on political freedoms. Nonetheless, Hu has enacted numerous wide-sweeping reforms that have allowed many new freedoms (more on this later). He replaced the former head of Chinese national health (firing him after the director had ignored the SARS epidemic) with a woman, Wu Yi, whose efforts contained the epidemic. (It would require another post to go into the details surrounding Wu Yi. However, for a quick overview, she has an outstanding history of public service and is notable for actually going to disease and poverty-stricken areas to tend to the sick and poor. Many people in China have actually taken to calling her the “goddess of mercy.” Her liberal attitude has stirred older party members; however, Jintao Hu is keeping her on the board.) Hu, who lived most of this life and career in the most impoverished areas of China, spent the last Chinese New Year at a poor farmer’s home (farmers and migrant workers have been hit the hardest by China’s recent economic policies) to discuss the plight of the poor and ways to help China’s impoverished regions (as opposed to his predecessor, who spent the new year in his luxurious Shanghai mansion). Because of his overall more open philosophy, many hope that the new leadership in China is the beginning of a more open and free period for the people of China.

To address global attitudes towards the United States and China, a growing distaste for U.S. policies would inevitable cause dissatisfaction with the United States (though, actually for the most part, the dissatisfaction is with the president). From what I have gathered from my friends who live in Europe and the Middle East, much of the irritation felt comes from the war in Iraq; not simply from the fact that the United States declared war, but from the way in which the U.S. implemented the war in Iraq preemptively without evidence. There have been numerous events (which could require another post) that put the initial rationales behind the war to question. And the fact that the United States, which has long viewed itself as a defender of helpless people against aggressive armies, aggressively attacks a nation that poised no actual treat to itself and show an utter disregard for international law and civility seriously disturbs many people around the world. This does not mean that the people of Europe, Asia or the Middle East necessarily hate the United States (granted, some of them do). The vast majority of people that I have met around the world love the United States, its people, and what it may stand for. They just really disagree with the policies pursued under the Bush Doctrine.

China, in recent years, has approached the world with a different doctrine. Throughout the 1980’s, China did not have much of a foreign policy, per se. Their objective was growth. This meant that China quietly supported (or did not challenge) U.S. policies with the hope that the two nations would not enter any conflicts and ultimately benefit each other through good relations. In recent years, China has become a more active global player. In a paper on the issue, Joshua Ramo points to a new foreign policy developed by China in which China wishes to avoid “building a US-style power, bristling with arms and intolerant of others’ world view” Instead, writes Ramo, “China’s emerging power is based upon the example of their own model, the strength of their economy, and their rigid defense of…national sovereignty.” China has also been actively making new friends through diplomacy. In November of 2004, President Bush and President Jintao Hu both traveled throughout Asia. The difference in their diplomacy lay in the issues. Karim Raslan, a Malaysian writer remarked that “Bush talked obsessively about terror…Yes, we worry about terror, but frankly that’s not the sum of our lives. We have many other problems. We’re retooling our economies, we’re wondering how to deal with the rise of China, we’re trying to address health, social, and environmental problems. Hu talked about all this; he talked about our agenda, not just his agenda.

The Chinese government has of course made gapes. But this overall warming of Chinese diplomacy shows a sign of change that I will elaborate more about later on.


OceanDrive2 :
The reality as of today is that the US can attack and destroy China...without little or no nukes making it to the US...

#1 China has no Judgment-Day stealth subs.
#2 There is a gulf of military tech difference between US and China.
#3 almost all Chinese Ballistic missiles are short and medium range.

China is better equiped to destroy Russia...than to destroy the USA.

According to the CIA, the location of China's approximately 400 (and declining) nuclear warheads means that even if the U.S. used all of its 16,000 (and increasing) nuclear warheads, China would still be able to send a volley that would devastate the United States. (Of course, mutual destruction is not particularly high on the agenda of two top trading partners)



Cadillac-Gage:

Europe will do what benefits European interests first-this is the tendency. CHINA is one-sixth of the world. China has nuclear weapons, if China is Attacking the United states, it's because China can effectively project its power across the widest ocean in the world. Against that, the comparatively unarmed EU doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell. See, Chinese generally don't make the Beauregard mistake and attack when they aren't ready. An attack against the U.S means China's laid the diplomatic, military, and logistical frameworks necessary to overcome the United STates, which means they can take anyone else to the cleaners.


Actually, China comprises one-fifth of the world's population. Anyhow, the key issue here is not the military. It's a matter of economics. China has a potential consumer class of about 1.2 BILLION people. I have been to cities where virtually everyone has a cell-phone and the thing that any observer quickly realizes in China is that practically everyone can’t wait to get their hands on the latest gadgets, fashions, music, and other consumer goods. And they have the money to buy it all. China is also an economic powerhouse. Besides being the “sweatshop of the world” (look under everything you own for that ubiquitous “Made in China” sticker), China is also a center of financial and capital flow. The reason the U.S. dollar is afloat after the 3.4 trillion dollar debt (and growing) created by Bush is because of Chinese investment. The reason why Europe and the United States have not suffered severe depressions and massive stagflation due to the dot-com crash is the low production cost of Chinese labor. The world is integrated with China and China is engaging in the world.

And this should be encouraged for the benefit of the world, China and human rights. As China welcomes global industry, it must also welcome global human rights standards. Meanwhile, China must modernize socially and politically in order to maintain foreign interest in their economic growth. An example of how China’s global integration has improved the condition of human rights can be found in the 2008 Olympic Games. During the bid to host the Olympics in Beijing, China pardoned most of its political prisoners and reformed their political dissidence laws (definitely a step forward). Also, as Beijing builds for the Olympics, thousands of residents have been moved by the government to make way for new developments. These people had been promised new homes by the government. Unfortunately, for the most part, the government did not meet its promise. Therefore, many of these dispossessed and homeless citizens did what would have once been considered unthinkable. They protested. They marched on the Streets of Beijing and they gathered support and media attention. With the world’s eyes watching, China could not afford another Tiananmen Square. And with a new, more open leader, the government itself was changing. Jintao Hu not only allowed the protests and held back the police, but he actually met with the protesters. The issue is currently a matter of consideration.

Sonic The Hedgehogs :
anyone ever heard of a Union starting up in China?

Actually, unions do exist in China. However, most are in collaboration with the governments. To be fair, this is not much different from unions in Japan and South Korea. In fact, the notion of unions is considered with a degree of shame in many East Asian nations due to a culture that values the progress of the collective over individual freedoms. Japan, for example, has only recently started to come to think of whistle-blowing (often considered a moral act in the West) as an acceptable action and not as criminal behavior deserving shame. It is notable, however, that this attitude is changing. Independent unions are rising in China and Wal-Mart factories in China have recently allowed unions, something that Wal-Mart stores do not allow in the United States.

Is political freedom still rare in China? Yes. Does China have much to fulfill towards basic human rights? Yes. Should the world be concerned about the emergence of China as the next superpower (within 35 years) and, ultimately, the superpower of the 21st and 22nd centuries? Yes.

However, the global repercussions arising from this situation must be addressed with knowledge and understanding, not fear and speculation.

America, despite its mistakes and problems, is the greatest democracy in the world

Really because the UN has said countries like The Netherlands, Sweeden, Canada... are betterplaces to live. The US tends to rank the US between 10 and 15. Having the choice between the UN's opinion and yours, I'll choose the UN.

I don't trust communists.

China is not communist anymore. They say they are market socialist which is closer to Capitolism than Communism.

I think that the US' allies said they though the US is worse than they really think it is in order to spark some changes within the US.

Arwan, that is the most organised and thought out post I have ever seen. Good Job.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/
China has the lrgest military...

but is not the second or the Third military Power.
The three major factors in military strength are manpower, funding, and technology.

#1, If China were to start a draft, it would have (at most) 342,956,265 soldiers. If the U.S. were to start a draft, it would have at most 67,742,879 soldiers. So, China significantly outranks the U.S. in terms of manpower.

#2. China spends $67.49 billion a year on its military, making it the second most-funded military in the world. But the U.S. spends $370.7 billion a year on its military, making China seriously outranked by the U.S. in terms of funding.

#3. Technology is a rather subjective idea and it's better to have all of the details, rather than mentioning specific weapons. Regardless of whether China has stated (or that its known) that it does not have certain weapons the U.S. has, they have the funding and the scientific capability to R&D anything that the U.S. has, being that, economically, they are also one of the largest manufacturers of technology, in general, and their educational system is probably stronger than America's. If Iraq, with poor-funding and little technology can develop medium-range ballistic missiles (which no one denies they did), then China, with substantial funding and a great deal of technology could develop (and may already have) long-range ballistic missiles.

So, I'd agree that America would probably defeat China in a one-on-one war, but it would last decades long. And China could probably defeat any other nation than America.

Exactly my point. China is the homeland of Sun-Tzu, and don't for a second think they don't study his book.
The U.S. military uses Sun-Tzu's work as well, even using copies of it in certain A-schools (military training), I believe.

CUBA

good god man, living in a socialist system isn't suffering, so what just because cubans can't buy the latest and greatest fashions and fads they don't need and dont make them any happier they're suffering, you're used to a consumerist society in which you have been indoctrinated to believe that choice is freedom and possesions make you happy. The cuban government provides a standard of living to it's citizens which is perfectly adequate, any shortfalls are due not the short fall of the system but to the ongoing (and illegal) American trade embargo, for example Cuba has had to build it's own pharmaceutical industry from scratch because of the embargo and they have made a very good job of it, now many poorer countries are now producing cuban designed drugs for themselves because the drugs offered by the western biotechs are STILL subject to rediculous and crippling licencing fees.