NationStates Jolt Archive

I need to know how a person can rise to General of the Army (5-star General) or Admiral of the Navy. What can they do besides attending West Point or Annapolis?

You need a war and an act of Congress. Attendance at West Point or Annapolis is irrelevant.

I believe the last time anyone acheived that position was World War 2, but I may be mistaken.

Sucking up doesn't hurt

You need a war and an act of Congress. Attendance at West Point or Annapolis is irrelevant.

What? Of course you need to go to the Academy to be of any power in the Armed Forces.

As far as I know...graduates of the military academies start off at the rank of 2LT, the same rank you would start off with if you went through a college ROTC program...and from there, the academy students may have a slightly better background, but they're all capable enough to rise through the ranks. By the time you acheive the rank of General, it's not going to make much difference whether or not you went to an academy...and therefore congress won't pay attention to that if they need to make a GOA

Political patrons. You need to kiss ass in order to get into positions of power.

What? Of course you need to go to the Academy to be of any power in the Armed Forces.

The current chairman (http://www.defenselink.mil/bios/myers_bio.html) of the Joint Chiefs of Staff didn't go to an academy.

I need to know how a person can rise to General of the Army (5-star General) or Admiral of the Navy. What can they do besides attending West Point or Annapolis?
Academy Attendance is helpful, but not necessary. High command comes with a combination of tenacity, political skill, and Tactical/Strategic skill.

Basically, you have to be able to schmooze the Politicians, and you have to be able to handle Troops and Logistics under complex and stressful conditions. Patton never made more than three Stars, ever. Eisenhower, whose tactical skills were somewhat doubtful, was a good overall strategist and an effective leader who was able to select good subordinates on his own and delegate the right duties to the Subordinates he did not choose to maximize their effectiveness (this is called "Leadership"), while managing and, to an extent, manipulating his Political masters without offending anyone that mattered (this is Political Skill). Tenacity comes in, because you're in a crowded field. VERY few people choose the career of "OFficer" without the goal of becoming the top-man (below the Prez, or Prez themselves), so there's a lot of very hard competition.

Thing is, all Generals are, to an extent, Politically savvy-but only the most savvy ones rise to the top. Above Colonel, your Tactical skill is not as important as your understanding of how to get eighty-billion kinds of crap from point a to point b without losing it. So part of your career needs to be spent in Logistics of one sort or another ("Supply is your friend"), but you can't let your other military skills rust while you do it.

You cant become General of the Army. The 5th star isnt actively in use.

You cant become General of the Army. The 5th star isnt actively in use.
The only time it ever is actively in use is during war. Last time (so far as I know) was World War II.

And actually...there's an NCO position very similar to GOA. Sergeant Major of the Army. That one works a little differently, but it's basically the highest rank an enlistee can obtain, and if I'm not mistaken, just like GOA, that rank is not actively in use except during certain times of war.

Academy Attendance is helpful, but not necessary. High command comes with a combination of tenacity, political skill, and Tactical/Strategic skill.

Basically, you have to be able to schmooze the Politicians, and you have to be able to handle Troops and Logistics under complex and stressful conditions. Patton never made more than three Stars, ever. Eisenhower, whose tactical skills were somewhat doubtful, was a good overall strategist and an effective leader who was able to select good subordinates on his own and delegate the right duties to the Subordinates he did not choose to maximize their effectiveness (this is called "Leadership"), while managing and, to an extent, manipulating his Political masters without offending anyone that mattered (this is Political Skill). Tenacity comes in, because you're in a crowded field. VERY few people choose the career of "OFficer" without the goal of becoming the top-man (below the Prez, or Prez themselves), so there's a lot of very hard competition.

Thing is, all Generals are, to an extent, Politically savvy-but only the most savvy ones rise to the top. Above Colonel, your Tactical skill is not as important as your understanding of how to get eighty-billion kinds of crap from point a to point b without losing it. So part of your career needs to be spent in Logistics of one sort or another ("Supply is your friend"), but you can't let your other military skills rust while you do it.

You're talking out of your......ignorance. Very few Generals were ever tacticians (although by that time, you have already attended war college). Being a General requires you to be a good manager. Generals are paper pushers, not tacticians or logisticians. Very few of them need to know anything about logistics or tactics (although they learn it at War College anyway). Many of them come from non-operational areas (such as acquisitions), which means they have always been paper pushers throughout their whole career and continue to be paper pushers as Generals. You've obviously watched too many movies.

Oh, and if you had ever been in ROTC (or at least known people who have), you would realize that the vast majority of officer candidates do not sign on as officers to be the top dog. They sign up as officers because they are intelligent, they have an interest in living the military life, and they do not want their education to go to waste by taking a job a high school graduate can take.

I need to know how a person can rise to General of the Army (5-star General) or Admiral of the Navy. What can they do besides attending West Point or Annapolis?
*suck-suck-suck*

*slurp*

*suck-suck-suck*

*slurp*

Thats a bit below the belt shrub ;)

You're talking out of your......ignorance. Very few Generals were ever tacticians (although by that time, you have already attended war college). Being a General requires you to be a good manager. Generals are paper pushers, not tacticians or logisticians. Very few of them need to know anything about logistics or tactics (although they learn it at War College anyway). Many of them come from non-operational areas (such as acquisitions), which means they have always been paper pushers throughout their whole career and continue to be paper pushers as Generals. You've obviously watched too many movies.

Oh, and if you had ever been in ROTC (or at least known people who have), you would realize that the vast majority of officer candidates do not sign on as officers to be the top dog. They sign up as officers because they are intelligent, they have an interest in living the military life, and they do not want their education to go to waste by taking a job a high school graduate can take.

So....what you're saying is....the best man for the job...won't know anything about it....

I need to know how a person can rise to General of the Army (5-star General) or Admiral of the Navy. What can they do besides attending West Point or Annapolis?

I imagine this has been addressed but in case it hasn't:

Some short bios:

General Jumper was born in Paris, Texas. He earned his commission as a distinguished graduate of Virginia Military Institute's ROTC

General Schoomaker became the 35th Chief of Staff, United States Army, on August 1st, 2003.

EDUCATION:
University of Wyoming, Bachelor of Science
Central Michigan University, Master of Arts in Management
Hampden-Sydney College, Honorary Doctorate of Laws

Born in Sioux City, Iowa, and raised in the midwestern states of Nebraska, Missouri and Illinois, Admiral Clark graduated from Evangel College and earned a Master's Degree of Business Administration (MBA) from the University of Arkansas. He attended Officer Candidate School and received his commission in August 1968.

General Pace received his commission in June 1967, following graduation from the United States Naval Academy. He also holds a Master's Degree in Business Administration from George Washington University and attended Harvard University for the Senior Executives in National and International Security program.

This shows that you do not have to graduate from a prestigious military school to succeed but that it certainly helps your stats.

For more info go to any of the .mil sites.

None of those generals are 5-star generals, nor were they ever. They are all 4 star general.

The rank "General" or "Admiral" is 4-stars. "General of the Army" or "Admiral of the Navy" or "General of the Air Force" or "General of the Marines" is the 5th star.

I need to know how a person can rise to General of the Army (5-star General) or Admiral of the Navy. What can they do besides attending West Point or Annapolis?

The US military has not promoted anyone to five star rank since WW II. The last surviving five star was Bradley.

How do you rise to four star? Go to college, get a degree, get a commission, make the military a career, and do your job to the very best of your ability. Oh, and in the officer ranks a little quiet politicking doesn't hurt.

If you don't go to a military academy...ROTC helps significantly...because that'll start you at 2LT instead of Pvt.

What? Of course you need to go to the Academy to be of any power in the Armed Forces.

It helps but is not absolutely necessary.

None of those generals are 5-star generals, nor were they ever. They are all 4 star general.

The rank "General" or "Admiral" is 4-stars. "General of the Army" or "Admiral of the Navy" or "General of the Air Force" or "General of the Marines" is the 5th star.

Only referring to high rank not 5 star.

The only time it ever is actively in use is during war. Last time (so far as I know) was World War II.

And actually...there's an NCO position very similar to GOA. Sergeant Major of the Army. That one works a little differently, but it's basically the highest rank an enlistee can obtain, and if I'm not mistaken, just like GOA, that rank is not actively in use except during certain times of war.

Each military branch has one position similar to Sergeant Major of the Army. The Air Force has a Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force. CMSgt. Paul W. Airey was the first one appointed to the position on April 3, 1967. It is not a wartime rank.

Also in reference to 5 star generals:

The five star general rank was created in the midst of World War II to address the fact that several American commanders found themselves in the delicate position of supervising Allied officers of higher rank. Initially, the new rank was to be called Field Marshal, after the British military, but this was nixed due to stern (and quite understandable) objections from General George C. Marshall.

When General of the Army Omar N. Bradley died in April of 1981, the five star ranking was consigned to history. In all, four Army generals, four Navy admirals, and one Air Force general have held this rank. The Army's five star generals were General George C. Marshall, General Douglas MacArthur, General Dwight D. Eisenhower, and General Omar N. Bradley. The Navy's five-star fleet admirals were Admiral William D. Leahy, Admiral Ernest J. King, Admiral Chester Nimitz, and Admiral William F. "Bull" Halsey. And General Henry Arnold was the Air Force's five star general.

Who beats a five star general? A General of the Armies of the United States -- the highest military rank of all time, hands down. To date, only George Washington and John J. Pershing have held this position.


Source: http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20020308.html

This in only one source... it gives a starting point.

Who beats a five star general? A General of the Armies of the United States -- the highest military rank of all time, hands down. To date, only George Washington and John J. Pershing have held this position.

Is this part of the source?

I don't know about Pershing, but I'm pretty sure that during the Revolution, there were only even 3 stars in use...and George Washington was in charge of coordinating the attacks of everyone...you could consider him a General of the Army...or you could consider him a Commander in Chief, fact of the matter is...there wasn't even a "General" rank then and there also wasn't a "Commander in Chief" rank, as we weren't a nation and didn't have a president at that time.

That said...there are TONS of people who have held a rank higher than a five star General...most recently in that list, George W Bush.

Each military branch has one position similar to Sergeant Major of the Army. The Air Force has a Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force. CMSgt. Paul W. Airey was the first one appointed to the position on April 3, 1967. It is not a wartime rank.
I know that each branch has the rank...but I didn't feel like typing each one out.

Each branch of the military is structured identically. They simply have different names for different ranks.

Is this part of the source?

I don't know about Pershing, but I'm pretty sure that during the Revolution, there were only even 3 stars in use...and George Washington was in charge of coordinating the attacks of everyone...you could consider him a General of the Army...or you could consider him a Commander in Chief, fact of the matter is...there wasn't even a "General" rank then and there also wasn't a "Commander in Chief" rank, as we weren't a nation and didn't have a president at that time.

That said...there are TONS of people who have held a rank higher than a five star General...most recently in that list, George W Bush.

Yes it was :). That is why I stated that it was only one source. The body of text was mainly concerned with the creation of the rank of five start general and the reasoning behind it. Also those who had attained that rank. This was my main point. In no way is the link to be considered truly authoriitative nor was it ever posted to address a comprehensive listing of military rank in America. It was just a "starting point".

Now if you would like to source some of your information i would appreciate it very much. I know with knowledge come a chance of understanding and do appreciate other's contibution.

Army: General of the Army was established by Congress on December 14, 1944 and provided that no more than four officers could be appointed. President Roosevelt appointed Generals George Marshall, Douglas MacArthur, Dwight D. Eisenhower and Henry H. Arnold. Act of Congress, approved September 15, 1950, authorized the President to appoint General Omar N. Bradley to the grade of General of the Army. The insignia of grade for General of the Army is prescribed as five silver stars set in a circle with the coat of arms of the United States, in gold, above the circle of stars.

Navy: The rank of Fleet Admiral has been reserved for war time use only. The last Fleet Admirals were in World War II. Fleet Admirals during that war were Chester W. Nimitz, William D. Leahy, Ernest J. King, and William F. Halsey.

Marines don't even have a 5-star general rank. And at the website I'm looking at now, there's no info for the Air Force, although the rank is there with "Wartime Only" in parenthesis.

http://www.military-quotes.com/ranks/army-rank-insignia.htm

I'm going to look for more sources.

General of the Armies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_of_the_Armies_of_the_United_States) - seems to be merely a title...not any actual considering one was posthumous, the other was post-war.

General of the Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_of_the_Army) - 5 star Army rank

General of the Air Force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_of_the_Air_Force) - 5 star Air Force rank

Fleet Admiral (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleet_Admiral) - five star Naval rank

Admiral of the Navy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiral_of_the_Navy) - the would be 6-star Naval rank.

And again, there is nothing higher than a 4 star rank for the Marines.

General of the Armies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_of_the_Armies_of_the_United_States) - seems to be merely a title...not any actual considering one was posthumous, the other was post-war.

General of the Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_of_the_Army) - 5 star Army rank

General of the Air Force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_of_the_Air_Force) - 5 star Air Force rank

Fleet Admiral (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleet_Admiral) - five star Naval rank

Admiral of the Navy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiral_of_the_Navy) - the would be 6-star Naval rank.

And again, there is nothing higher than a 4 star rank for the Marines.

Thank you. Much appreciated. Also by chance do you just use the wikipedia as a source or are you an editor?

I just assumed you'd have to be an accomplished swordsman.

In a certain sense, anyway.

I just assumed you'd have to be an accomplished swordsman.

In a certain sense, anyway.
That's only for the Navy. After all, the Cap'n of any ship has got to be able to win any fencing match, or else there is mutiny.

General of the Armies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_of_the_Armies_of_the_United_States) - seems to be merely a title...not any actual considering one was posthumous, the other was post-war.

Admiral of the Navy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiral_of_the_Navy) - the would be 6-star Naval rank.

Not quite. www.ask.com gives the following;

The grade of General of the Armies of the United States is associated with two officers in our history, George Washington and John J. Pershing, although only General Pershing actually held it.

Admiral of the Navy - apparantly no such rank.

Trexia if one is really interested in a military career some helpful suggestions for rising in rank are ... but not all inclusive....

A prestigious military school (helpful not required along with most of these suggestions. :) )

ROTC

Muliple college degrees...a doctorate is always nice.

Successful completion of all PME in a timely fashion. Being a DG wouldn't hurt. PME = Professional Military Education. DG distinguished graduate.

All you OPR's are stellar: OPR= Officer performance reports.

Knowing right people and making yourself be the right person for the right time.

Publishing papers, writing a book on leadership.

These are just a few of many stepping stones.

Not quite. www.ask.com gives the following;

The grade of General of the Armies of the United States is associated with two officers in our history, George Washington and John J. Pershing, although only General Pershing actually held it.

Admiral of the Navy - apparantly no such rank.
Pershing never held it during a war.

Additionally, no one has ever held the rank of Admiral of the Navy, but it does exist.

Apparantely I was wrong. From www.encyclopedia.com

"Admiral of the Navy"

Found: 1 Showing: 1 - 1

1. Dewey, George Dewey, Georgedoo´ē, dyoo´-, 1837-1917, American admiral, hero of the battle of Manila, b. Montpelier, Vt., grad. Annapolis, 1858. He saw active duty in the Civil War and rose in the navy in service and rank, becoming chief of the Bureau of Equipment in 1889, president of the Board of Inspection and Survey in 1895, and...

Trexia if one is really interested in a military career some helpful suggestions for rising in rank are ... but not all inclusive....

A prestigious military school (helpful not required along with most of these suggestions. :) )

ROTC

Muliple college degrees...a doctorate is always nice.

Successful completion of all PME in a timely fashion. Being a DG wouldn't hurt. PME = Professional Military Education. DG distinguished graduate.

All you OPR's are stellar: OPR= Officer performance reports.

Knowing right people and making yourself be the right person for the right time.

Publishing papers, writing a book on leadership.

These are just a few of many stepping stones.

Beautiful.

I can become an Admiral, then run for president.

Kiss as many asses as possible, and shoot whoever gets in yer way. The first part is the way I saved myself from the court-martial I was facing as a result of the second part.

why?

Become an officer in your branch of service though ROTC/Academy/NCO to Officer program of choice.

Say "Yes, sir" a lot.

Get promoted to 4 stars and hope that if there's a war on, the president decides to pick you to run it.

why?
Was that question for me? If so, it's so I can propose prohibition, then open a speakeasy.

How does one attain the highest rank in the military...

I picture Stewie Griffin asking this question after somebody says that the U.S. Military has a vast array of powerful weapons in key global positions.

Not quite. www.ask.com gives the following;

The grade of General of the Armies of the United States is associated with two officers in our history, George Washington and John J. Pershing, although only General Pershing actually held it.

Admiral of the Navy - apparantly no such rank.
I looked up "Admiral of the Navy" in the wiki site. Yes, there is a status of that, higher than OF-10

How does one attain the highest rank in the military...

I picture Stewie Griffin asking this question after somebody says that the U.S. Military has a vast array of powerful weapons in key global positions.

Technically, the highest rank in the military is Commander in Chief.

Just run for President, and get elected.

None of those generals are 5-star generals, nor were they ever. They are all 4 star general.

The rank "General" or "Admiral" is 4-stars. "General of the Army" or "Admiral of the Navy" or "General of the Air Force" or "General of the Marines" is the 5th star.

You have a rank error here. There is no General of the Marines. Though it is considered a branch of the Armed Forces, they are not a seperate branch though because they are technically attached to the US Navy.

Also in reference to 5 star generals:

The five star general rank was created in the midst of World War II to address the fact that several American commanders found themselves in the delicate position of supervising Allied officers of higher rank. Initially, the new rank was to be called Field Marshal, after the British military, but this was nixed due to stern (and quite understandable) objections from General George C. Marshall.

When General of the Army Omar N. Bradley died in April of 1981, the five star ranking was consigned to history. In all, four Army generals, four Navy admirals, and one Air Force general have held this rank. The Army's five star generals were General George C. Marshall, General Douglas MacArthur, General Dwight D. Eisenhower, and General Omar N. Bradley. The Navy's five-star fleet admirals were Admiral William D. Leahy, Admiral Ernest J. King, Admiral Chester Nimitz, and Admiral William F. "Bull" Halsey. And General Henry Arnold was the Air Force's five star general.

Who beats a five star general? A General of the Armies of the United States -- the highest military rank of all time, hands down. To date, only George Washington and John J. Pershing have held this position.


Source: http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20020308.html

This in only one source... it gives a starting point.

General of the Armies of the United States--President of the United States can technically claim this title :D

Not quite. www.ask.com gives the following;

The grade of General of the Armies of the United States is associated with two officers in our history, George Washington and John J. Pershing, although only General Pershing actually held it.

Admiral of the Navy - apparantly no such rank.

Then why in regular encyclopedias is there a rank tab for the Admiral of the Navy? That is plain wrong because there is such a rank for the Admiral of the Navy.

Then why in regular encyclopedias is there a rank tab for the Admiral of the Navy? That is plain wrong because there is such a rank for the Admiral of the Navy.
What encyclopedia? There is no Admiral of the Navy.

http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/insignias/officers.html

Maybe you're thinking of Fleet Admiral.

What encyclopedia? There is no Admiral of the Navy.

http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/insignias/officers.html

...
It is a theoretical six-star rank held by George Dewey only. The DoD chart has no General of the Armies, another six-star rank, as well.

It is a theoretical six-star rank held by George Dewey only. The DoD chart has no General of the Armies, another six-star rank, as well.
huh, indeed there is an Admiral of the Navy...but how the hell do you get six stars? My bad.

In reality is, that in the US Armed Forces, you won't get promoted unless you violate a few laws and regulations.
That's a fact of life. Only the soldiers who have article 15's and court martials on their records get Sgt stripes.
When you join the army, you will find that those who break the law or in some good ole boy group get promoted fast. While those who follow the rules and aren't in the good ole boy group do not get promoted.
My roommate who has followed the rules has been a specialist for 10 years. And the fellow the down the hall who went AWOL a year ago, has only been in 3 years and has already made Sgt.
The promotion system is broken.

huh, indeed there is an Admiral of the Navy...but how the hell do you get six stars? My bad.
Erm... there was a proposal to make McArthur a six-star general commanding the invasion of Japan in 1945.

Now you won't get six stars, unless you are to become a founder of the NUSA (New United States of America, that is ;)).

In reality is, that in the US Armed Forces, you won't get promoted unless you violate a few laws and regulations.
That's a fact of life. Only the soldiers who have article 15's and court martials on their records get Sgt stripes.
When you join the army, you will find that those who break the law or in some good ole boy group get promoted fast. While those who follow the rules and aren't in the good ole boy group do not get promoted.
My roommate who has followed the rules has been a specialist for 10 years. And the fellow the down the hall who went AWOL a year ago, has only been in 3 years and has already made Sgt.
The promotion system is broken.

That doesn't probably follow in every command of the Army and certainly doesn't with Officer ranks in particular fields and or branches. For example in the Captain to Major transition. If you have an article 15 you can almost kiss your promotion good bye.... Unless you are in an extremely critically manned field. The Army right now is not meeting it's recruiting quotas and they have a great demand to keep many of the people they have in presently. Maybe this is an explanation of the promotion of the one who had gone AWOL.

Though I will say this that some people who should get promoted don't and vice versa.

What encyclopedia? There is no Admiral of the Navy.

http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/insignias/officers.html

Maybe you're thinking of Fleet Admiral.

Fleet Admiral=Admiral of the Navy :rolleyes:

I think that Admiral of the Navy is higher than Fleet Admiral, but I am not sure.

I think that Admiral of the Navy is higher than Fleet Admiral, but I am not sure.

Admiral of the Navy=George W. Bush :D

Then why in regular encyclopedias is there a rank tab for the Admiral of the Navy? That is plain wrong because there is such a rank for the Admiral of the Navy.

Please see my correction in post #34.

In reality is, that in the US Armed Forces, you won't get promoted unless you violate a few laws and regulations.
That's a fact of life. Only the soldiers who have article 15's and court martials on their records get Sgt stripes.
When you join the army, you will find that those who break the law or in some good ole boy group get promoted fast. While those who follow the rules and aren't in the good ole boy group do not get promoted.
My roommate who has followed the rules has been a specialist for 10 years. And the fellow the down the hall who went AWOL a year ago, has only been in 3 years and has already made Sgt.
The promotion system is broken.

It would be nice if you knew what you were talking about.

In reality is, that in the US Armed Forces, you won't get promoted unless you violate a few laws and regulations.
That's a fact of life. Only the soldiers who have article 15's and court martials on their records get Sgt stripes.
When you join the army, you will find that those who break the law or in some good ole boy group get promoted fast. While those who follow the rules and aren't in the good ole boy group do not get promoted.
My roommate who has followed the rules has been a specialist for 10 years. And the fellow the down the hall who went AWOL a year ago, has only been in 3 years and has already made Sgt.
The promotion system is broken.
Eh...besides the fact that we're definitely not hearing the whole story, promotion of NCOs is done SIGNIFICANTLY different from COs.

In reality is, that in the US Armed Forces, you won't get promoted unless you violate a few laws and regulations.
That's a fact of life. Only the soldiers who have article 15's and court martials on their records get Sgt stripes.
When you join the army, you will find that those who break the law or in some good ole boy group get promoted fast. While those who follow the rules and aren't in the good ole boy group do not get promoted.
My roommate who has followed the rules has been a specialist for 10 years. And the fellow the down the hall who went AWOL a year ago, has only been in 3 years and has already made Sgt.
The promotion system is broken.

Your friend must be a slacker. In order to get promoted from E-4 to E-5 (from specialist to SGT), your friend need only have a few things:

1. Sufficient promotion points to make E-5 for his occupational specialty (this is largely a function of your physical fitness test score, your marksmanship score, and your civilian and military education).
2. Going before an E-5 board at the local unit. You can demand and receive this - you don't have to wait to be "recommended".
3. Going to PLDC - otherwise known as the NCO school. Once again, you can demand this - you don't have to wait to be "recommended".

When I was promoted from E-4 to E-5 I had nearly the maximum number of points it's possible to attain - ensuring that the system would promote me no matter what. If your friend were working hard to get promoted, instead of sitting on his ass for 10 years, he would have already gotten the maximum number of military correspondence courses, a maximum score on the PT test, and shot perfect scores at the range. And if he had 10 years, he could have also taken some college courses on the side to raise his points even more. I've seen plenty of slackers who did just what your friend has done - sit on their butts and cry about how they're not getting promoted.

You know, if he doesn't have the personal initiative to do something that simple - work for his own promotion - why would anyone want him to be a leader?

You know, if he doesn't have the personal initiative to do something that simple - work for his own promotion - why would anyone want him to be a leader?
Exactly. Once you become SGT (and up), then you start getting some real leadership responsibilities...that is one promotion that's definitely not just "oh well, he's been around x months, time for a promotion."

It would be nice if you knew what you were talking about.
Unless you are actually in the army like I am, you should not talk.

Unless you are actually in the army like I am, you should not talk.

I was in the Army. And I got promoted, and I've never had an Article 15 or court martial.

Your friend must be a slacker. In order to get promoted from E-4 to E-5 (from specialist to SGT), your friend need only have a few things:

1. Sufficient promotion points to make E-5 for his occupational specialty (this is largely a function of your physical fitness test score, your marksmanship score, and your civilian and military education).
2. Going before an E-5 board at the local unit. You can demand and receive this - you don't have to wait to be "recommended".
3. Going to PLDC - otherwise known as the NCO school. Once again, you can demand this - you don't have to wait to be "recommended".

When I was promoted from E-4 to E-5 I had nearly the maximum number of points it's possible to attain - ensuring that the system would promote me no matter what. If your friend were working hard to get promoted, instead of sitting on his ass for 10 years, he would have already gotten the maximum number of military correspondence courses, a maximum score on the PT test, and shot perfect scores at the range. And if he had 10 years, he could have also taken some college courses on the side to raise his points even more. I've seen plenty of slackers who did just what your friend has done - sit on their butts and cry about how they're not getting promoted.

You know, if he doesn't have the personal initiative to do something that simple - work for his own promotion - why would anyone want him to be a leader?

You are wrong on 3. PLDC is no longer a requirement for promotion from Spc to Sgt. PLDC is now only required if you intend to go past E5 to E6.

The rest of what you said has changed also. The only way to get points now is by going to the board. The rest no longer counts unless you got the points before the changes were implemented, (they came into effect about 6 to 7 months ago). There is a set number of points that you start off with but you have to build up from there. I forget what the number of automatic points is. The change was put in place because the army was and is dangerously low on NCO's.

Besides which, even before these changes a lot of people who were lazy as you put it, were getting promoted while the ones who did most of the work did not get promoted. What I am complaining about is the lazy people getting promoted just because they got cozy with someone.

I prefer that people who not ready for a leadership position, not be promoted until they are ready. And one of the problems with the old promotion system was that, (as an example), A high PT score could get you promoted even if you were the most ineffective soldier in the unit. That's something I considered a problem hence why I am glad they got rid of it.
Of course your unit commander decides who meets the criteria to go to the board and if he so chose, he could make the old ways, (PT maxing, the range, etc.) a criteria for eligibility to the board. But it is no longer required army wide.

As for my roommate, he's a pretty good soldier. He knows all his stuff. He does needs to be done and has held the position of a Sgt. But he was always passed over by inferior quality soldiers. He's the guy the 1st Sgt and the Company commander go to when they need something that involves his job. Hell, I've seen the Sgt. Major go to him to get some other company's stuff to work.

I was in the Army. And I got promoted, and I've never had an Article 15 or court martial.
Was? How long ago? Cause there have been some changes to the promotion system a few months back.

As for the court martials and Article 15's, even the 1st Sgt and other high ranking NCO's on this installation, have said they never saw anyone promoted who never had an article 15. Every NCO I've come into contact with and every soldier I've seen promoted to Sgt had Article 15's in their files.
And at least one was caught in a lacivious act with a minor under 18, in his room in the barracks when they decided to do a surprise inspection. He got a slap on the wrist.

Was? How long ago? Cause there have been some changes to the promotion system a few months back.

As for the court martials and Article 15's, even the 1st Sgt and other high ranking NCO's on this installation, have said they never saw anyone promoted who never had an article 15. Every NCO I've come into contact with and every soldier I've seen promoted to Sgt had Article 15's in their files.
And at least one was caught in a lacivious act with a minor under 18, in his room in the barracks when they decided to do a surprise inspection. He got a slap on the wrist.

Early 1990s. You must not be in the infantry. An Article 15 was the kiss of death.

It might depend on your MOS. There are plenty of infantrymen in general, and they can be choosier about who to promote. Your MOS might have such a limited number of people (especially if it requires a TS clearance) that you have to promote every swinging dick who lives long enough.

I would add that in my experience, non-combat arms units (i.e., intel or support, or transportation units) had the worst morale, the most soldier problems, the most Article 15s, and the worst discipline.

Also the worst PT scores, the lowest rifle qualification scores (unless they did the pencil cheat), and the worst looking assortment of ragbags on post.

Early 1990s. You must not be in the infantry. An Article 15 was the kiss of death.

It might depend on your MOS. There are plenty of infantrymen in general, and they can be choosier about who to promote. Your MOS might have such a limited number of people (especially if it requires a TS clearance) that you have to promote every swinging dick who lives long enough.
Its a given that the standards of infantry units are going to be higher than those of support units due to clear reasons.

Anyone know anything about the Navy? That's what I want to get into.

Unless you are actually in the army like I am, you should not talk.

How about 26 years in the US military. Is that enough time?

How about 26 years in the US military. Is that enough time?

I have the impression that the 10-year specialist we've been talking about is a slug with manboobs.

Sorry to sound stupid but, what's an Article 15?

Why are we even discussing NCO promotions when the thread is about COs, and CO promotions work differently than NCOs...?

I have the impression that the 10-year specialist we've been talking about is a slug with manboobs.
Actually not.

Sorry to sound stupid but, what's an Article 15?
An article 15 is a summary judgement in lieu of a full court marshall. It can however, be appealled to a court martial which is basically the military's version of a trial by jury. Or in this case, a trial by your peers.
It's supposed to give greater flexibility to commanders in the field. The worst you can get is a field grade article 15 which comes with severe punishment.
The punishment for article 15 involves having your pay docked for a set number of months, having to do extra manual labor for a set number of months, and in many cases having your rank taken from you. E-4's can two ranks taken and NCO's can only have one rank at a time taken. We have a former E-7 in our battalion who has been busted all the down to E-4 since I've been here. You have to big time screw up to lose that much rank in just 2 years.

Anyone know anything about the Navy? That's what I want to get into.

You first should gather some cursory info. Go to Navy.com.. believe that is the site. See the requirements expected from you first to be able to join. Check out some of the career paths. Mull over whether you want to go in as an officer or enlisted. Though one thing that goes for all branches.... get what your recruiter says in writing :). Actually I would avoid the recruiter till you are very certain that the Navy is the career for you. Also if you do your homework first you are better able to guide which career you would get placed into. Another good site would be navy.mil. I think this link would be more informative of Navy life.

An article 15 is a summary judgement in lieu of a full court marshall. It can however, be appealled to a court martial which is basically the military's version of a trial by jury. Or in this case, a trial by your peers.
It's supposed to give greater flexibility to commanders in the field. The worst you can get is a field grade article 15 which comes with severe punishment.
The punishment for article 15 involves having your pay docked for a set number of months, having to do extra manual labor for a set number of months, and in many cases having your rank taken from you. E-4's can two ranks taken and NCO's can only have one rank at a time taken. We have a former E-7 in our battalion who has been busted all the down to E-4 since I've been here. You have to big time screw up to lose that much rank in just 2 years.
Didn't you just say that to get promoted, you need an Article 15; now you're saying that you'll get demoted for it...

Didn't you just say that to get promoted, you need an Article 15; now you're saying that you'll get demoted for it...
Actually I did. See, according to military regs, you are supposed to be demoted. The only place I've seen this happen is Fort Huachuca. In the other places I've been, in Korea for example, any one who didn't get in trouble or get A 15's were passed up for promotion in favor of those who did.
The reasoning being that if you don't break the rules, you are not trustworthy. Ironically, these are the very types of soldiers that we are having problems with in Iraq.
I think the people who wrote the regs had it right. If you do something to get an A 15, you are not fit for battle and need correction.