NationStates Jolt Archive

I am British and a stickler for good etiquette. My friend recently came across the following:

"In the American style, one cuts the food by holding the knife in the right hand and the fork in the left hand with the fork tines holding the food to the plate. The right method is to cut a few bite-size pieces of food, then lay your knife across the top edge of your plate with the sharp edge of the blade facing inwards and towards you. Then change your fork from your left hand into your right hand to eat, with the fork tines facing up."

This seems rather vulgar to me, so my question to Americans is "Do you actually find this to be an acceptable way to eat, especially in polite company?"

Hi there. Welcome to the 21st century. It's a bit different from four hundred years ago, but you'll quickly learn to get rid of your odder notions.

I'm British too, and I consider vulgar to be making noises whilst eating. That's about it, though.

(Good thread by the way, made me lol)

As an American with at least a little bit of culture, those were acceptable methods of eating in the 1950s. Today, it depends on the company, even in the most formal company, there is no expectation to switch the fork to the right hand. Then again, back in the day, Nuns didnt want anyone to write with their left hand either, so my grandmother told me stories about her school where they would hit your left hand with a ruler if they caught you, she then began writing right handed as did everyone.

That's the way I've always done it.

My question is, how do you do it?

I didn't think ayone thought it was "vulgar" to eat in this manner.

here's my rule of thumb for eating. as long as it makes it to my mouth without landing in dog shit its acceptable.

I've seen Americans do it. I think it disgusting how they won't eat this their hands as nature intended to do. I mean, they are prepared to put their food in their mouth, but they don't want to touch it with their fingers? Weird. Maybe it's because of their custom of shaking hands. Who knows what the other person has been doing with theirs?

I've seen Americans do it. I think it disgusting how they won't eat this their hands as nature intended to do. I mean, they are prepared to put their food in their mouth, but they don't want to touch it with their fingers? Weird. Maybe it's because of their custom of shaking hands. Who knows what the other person has been doing with theirs?
you just were observing the wrong americans.

Maybe it's because of their custom of shaking hands. Who knows what the other person has been doing with theirs?

Exactly. ;)

I am British and a stickler for good etiquette. My friend recently came across the following:

"In the American style, one cuts the food by holding the knife in the right hand and the fork in the left hand with the fork tines holding the food to the plate. The right method is to cut a few bite-size pieces of food, then lay your knife across the top edge of your plate with the sharp edge of the blade facing inwards and towards you. Then change your fork from your left hand into your right hand to eat, with the fork tines facing up."

This seems rather vulgar to me, so my question to Americans is "Do you actually find this to be an acceptable way to eat, especially in polite company?"why is it vulgar?
I believe this is the method because (for right handers anyway) the right hand offeres more control over the knife. placing the blade edge in reduces injury when passing thing around to other diners.

In a formal dinner, here's what's important I think:

1) hands don't touch food
2) make it as clean as possible (no messy handling, splashing, ripping)
3) keep all movements in control, elegant
4) make the other person comfortable
5) be as serious as the service is

I don't see any reason why the "North American way of handling a fork" wouldn't be good. It's all in the attitude, respect anyway.

And beside, if it's good enough for the Quebecois, who are the most European of all North Americans, then it's good for everybody. :D

I've seen Americans do it. I think it disgusting how they won't eat this their hands as nature intended to do. I mean, they are prepared to put their food in their mouth, but they don't want to touch it with their fingers? Weird. Maybe it's because of their custom of shaking hands. Who knows what the other person has been doing with theirs?
Who doesn't eat with their hands? I see yo udidn't visit the south >_>

My question is, how do you do it?
I'll quote the same source for the correct way one should eat.

"The European style is the same as the American style in that you cut your meat by holding your knife in your right hand with your forefinger pressed on the back of the blade, while securing your food with your fork held tines down in your left hand. Your fork remains in your left hand however, and good manners dictate that at all times the tines must be facing down. The knife must always stay in your right hand, and not be put down while eating. The food is then either taken by pushing the fork into it, or by pushing the food onto the back of the fork with your knife. The fork is never used in a shoveling motion in the European style as it often is in the American style."

I've seen Americans do it. I think it disgusting how they won't eat this their hands as nature intended to do. I mean, they are prepared to put their food in their mouth, but they don't want to touch it with their fingers? Weird. Maybe it's because of their custom of shaking hands. Who knows what the other person has been doing with theirs?
Fast food, anybody?
Of course, consdering the number of preservatives, you would most likely be perfecetly safe if you dipped a McDonalds french fry in a vat of ebola and left it for a week or so before eating it.

TO the threads creator, to be honest, I dont think your American friend will notice or care. I personaly switch knife/fork hands whenever it suits me, and I prefer using a salad for for meat because they tend to be thinner and easier to 'manuever'.

As an American with at least a little bit of culture, those were acceptable methods of eating in the 1950s. Today, it depends on the company, even in the most formal company, there is no expectation to switch the fork to the right hand. Then again, back in the day, Nuns didnt want anyone to write with their left hand either, so my grandmother told me stories about her school where they would hit your left hand with a ruler if they caught you, she then began writing right handed as did everyone.

They did it in the early 60's too. I know because I got kicked out of school permanently and sent to public school for may failure (refusal) to adapt to those standards. Well, also because I got caught multiple times for stealing the sisters rulers and throwing them out the window. Today I am a bit ashamed. That was the only woman I ever wanted to hit, and she was a nun. <sigh>

*snip*
The right method is to cut a few bite-size pieces of food, then lay your knife across the top edge of your plate with the sharp edge of the blade facing inwards and towards...*snip*

I like how you say, the right method.

Is there really a right method to eating? As long as your food isn't flying everywhere, or spilling on.... As long as you aren't throwing your food at people(although this is acceptable sometimes, though not if you plan on eating the food as well ;) ) does it really matter?

Some people think it's impolite to burp or slurp; some cultures think it's an insult to the cook if you don't, so what?

And how is it vulgar?

I like how you say, the right method.
I didn't say that, I was quoting - hence the quotation marks - that was the opinion of the source.

I didn't say that, I was quoting - hence the quotation marks - that was the opinion of the source.

Oh, I didn't notice that it was a quote, sorry.

I've seen Americans do it. I think it disgusting how they won't eat this their hands as nature intended to do. I mean, they are prepared to put their food in their mouth, but they don't want to touch it with their fingers? Weird. Maybe it's because of their custom of shaking hands. Who knows what the other person has been doing with theirs?

Americans eat with their hands, but not at a formal setting as you might at a Saudi meal. In fact, we have food specifically designed to eat with your hands... AKA ... Pocket Food!

Yes, in the United States that is how we eat in polite company but I have a question for you. Is the United Kingdoms flag your flag because I always thought that the red cross on the the white feild was Englands national flag. Also what is your country's name? England, Britain, or Great Britain?

ALthough, as an american, I find that regarding such behavior as being vulgar is childish, i do not often find myself switching hands, and very few eople that I am aware of (with the exception of a few left handers - and regarding the use of the knife in the left hand as vulgar - when the individual is left handed - now that's just plain silly.) actually switch hands at all. One must remember, however, that manners are subjectve anyway - Let it be reminded that when european traders and missionaries were first introduced to the japanese , thier methods of eating were considered vulgar and offensive,.

I find that when people make noises when eating - it's really very simple I don't view it as rude- jsut completely disgusting and inconsiderate. Nobody wants to hear that garbage. Especially when somone slurprs spagghetti - that really irks me.

There is a line here manners and common sense meet - The fact that there are so many rules regarding the use of napkins, it's really almost comical; how seriously people take themselves, for something that's, in the grand scheme of things, a complete waste of effort :D

I find that regarding such behavior as being vulgar is childish
Given that the word vulgar has more than one meaning, regarding such behaviour as vulgar would be accurate.

vul·gar adj.
1. Crudely indecent.

2. a. Deficient in taste, delicacy, or refinement.
b. Marked by a lack of good breeding; boorish. See synonyms at common.

knife? Fork? Plate? What are these words you speak? *grabs food with fingers while hovering over sink*

I am British and a stickler for good etiquette. My friend recently came across the following:

"In the American style, one cuts the food by holding the knife in the right hand and the fork in the left hand with the fork tines holding the food to the plate. The right method is to cut a few bite-size pieces of food, then lay your knife across the top edge of your plate with the sharp edge of the blade facing inwards and towards you. Then change your fork from your left hand into your right hand to eat, with the fork tines facing up."

This seems rather vulgar to me, so my question to Americans is "Do you actually find this to be an acceptable way to eat, especially in polite company?"

Sounds like bad manners to me. Then again, my friends think I'm odd of having an "old fashioned" sense for manners and the like. I hold the knife in my right hand, fork in the left, and slice up food as I go, unless it's very, very hot food, then I'll slice it all up to cool it off.

I'll quote the same source for the correct way one should eat.

"The European style is the same as the American style in that you cut your meat by holding your knife in your right hand with your forefinger pressed on the back of the blade, while securing your food with your fork held tines down in your left hand. Your fork remains in your left hand however, and good manners dictate that at all times the tines must be facing down. The knife must always stay in your right hand, and not be put down while eating. The food is then either taken by pushing the fork into it, or by pushing the food onto the back of the fork with your knife. The fork is never used in a shoveling motion in the European style as it often is in the American style.""at all times the tines must be facing down...by pushing the food onto the back of the fork with your knife."

The food is gonna fall off

Given that the word vulgar has more than one meaning, regarding such behaviour as vulgar would be accurate.

vul·gar adj.
1. Crudely indecent.

2. a. Deficient in taste, delicacy, or refinement.
b. Marked by a lack of good breeding; boorish. See synonyms at common.
I'm glad you clarified that; I've never looked the word up, so the only meaning I knew about was the first. :)

The knife stays in my left hand the whole time, and the fork in my right hand the whole time.

I'm left handed...but manage to get the steak in my mouth with my fork in my right hand without stabbing my face off...

I've always been taught that the proper etiquette is to leave your knife in your right hand even if you aren't using it and to only cut one bite sized pice at a time.

Who doesn't eat with their hands? I see yo udidn't visit the south >_>

You may have meant that to be insulting, but it certainly isn’t. We don’t pay much attention to eating etiquette down here, at least where I live. But hey, we make up for it by holding open doors and general kindness towards strangers.

You may have meant that to be insulting, but it certainly isn’t. We don’t pay much attention to eating etiquette down here, at least where I live. But hey, we make up for it by holding open doors and general kindness towards strangers.

Plus, we define an entire genre of rap.

I am British and a stickler for good etiquette. My friend recently came across the following:

"In the American style, one cuts the food by holding the knife in the right hand and the fork in the left hand with the fork tines holding the food to the plate. The right method is to cut a few bite-size pieces of food, then lay your knife across the top edge of your plate with the sharp edge of the blade facing inwards and towards you. Then change your fork from your left hand into your right hand to eat, with the fork tines facing up."

This seems rather vulgar to me, so my question to Americans is "Do you actually find this to be an acceptable way to eat, especially in polite company?"

I think the greater issue is why Americans don't have a soup spoon! I've had dinner in America, and that was my first question when the soup came out, "where is the soup spoon", I then had to explain to the waitress what a soup spoon was :headbang:

As for the knife and fork, I always hold borth of them at the same time when eating - just a small dig at the Americans - maybe us Brits use both hands, because we can use both sides of our brain at the same time :p

Yes, in the United States that is how we eat in polite company but I have a question for you. Is the United Kingdoms flag your flag because I always thought that the red cross on the the white feild was Englands national flag. Also what is your country's name? England, Britain, or Great Britain?

England is one part of United Kingdom, they're all different names for the same thing.

The national flag is the Union Jack, England has the red on white flag.

Here is a good question; why is it when you have Americans at your house, they come in, eat, and bugger off before 8:00?

I mean, have Australians, French, British, New Zealanders, around, and you'll find that dinner will go for 2-3 hours, talking, chatting, laughing, enjoying each others company, then sit around for the next 4 hours chatting and talking over coffee and biscuits - the whole evening will go till 2am.

Americans need to slow down and start to enjoy life rather than rush, rush around for superficial crap.

"at all times the tines must be facing down...by pushing the food onto the back of the fork with your knife."

The food is gonna fall off

First off, that is the British way to use a knife and fork. The rest of Europe, when witnessing British eat, normally just stares and wonders.
What they seem to do is press the food with the knife on the back of the fork. That's really, REALLY funny when they are trying to eat peas...

Now, as for continental Europe, we use the fork the right way around (tines pointing upward), and we don't switch hands. We hold the fork in the left and the knife in the right hand, use the fork to hold food and the knife to cut it up, then use the fork in the left hand to get food of the plate into the mouth.

Here is a good question; why is it when you have Americans at your house, they come in, eat, and bugger off before 8:00?

Well. We don’t like to impose. When someone invites us over for dinner, that is what we think. Dinner. Not Dinner and then stay for five hours.

What they seem to do is press the food with the knife on the back of the fork. That's really, REALLY funny when they are trying to eat peas...

Best way to eat peas = use a spork.

I am British and a stickler for good etiquette. My friend recently came across the following:

"In the American style, one cuts the food by holding the knife in the right hand and the fork in the left hand with the fork tines holding the food to the plate. The right method is to cut a few bite-size pieces of food, then lay your knife across the top edge of your plate with the sharp edge of the blade facing inwards and towards you. Then change your fork from your left hand into your right hand to eat, with the fork tines facing up."

This seems rather vulgar to me, so my question to Americans is "Do you actually find this to be an acceptable way to eat, especially in polite company?"

I'll say this: What the FUCK?

I eat however the fuck I want. If somebody tells me to use my utensils a certain way, I pretty much say "fuck off". There's no such thing as "holding a utensil correctly". It's bullshit.

England is one part of United Kingdom, they're all different names for the same thing.

The national flag is the Union Jack, England has the red on white flag.

Here is a good question; why is it when you have Americans at your house, they come in, eat, and bugger off before 8:00?

I mean, have Australians, French, British, New Zealanders, around, and you'll find that dinner will go for 2-3 hours, talking, chatting, laughing, enjoying each others company, then sit around for the next 4 hours chatting and talking over coffee and biscuits - the whole evening will go till 2am.

Americans need to slow down and start to enjoy life rather than rush, rush around for superficial crap.

You my friend have been hanging out with the wrong Americans

You my friend have been hanging out with the wrong Americans

Truth.

I am British and a stickler for good etiquette. My friend recently came across the following:

"In the American style, one cuts the food by holding the knife in the right hand and the fork in the left hand with the fork tines holding the food to the plate. The right method is to cut a few bite-size pieces of food, then lay your knife across the top edge of your plate with the sharp edge of the blade facing inwards and towards you. Then change your fork from your left hand into your right hand to eat, with the fork tines facing up."

This seems rather vulgar to me, so my question to Americans is "Do you actually find this to be an acceptable way to eat, especially in polite company?"
This is in fact the polite way to eat in America (at least as my mother taught me). Of course very few Americans care about that particular sort of silliness much anymore. My personal style of eating is almost identical to that described by Cabra West, except with the hands switched. I favour this technique because it is efficient. Switching hands just to take a bite strikes me as sort of bizzare really.

This is in fact the polite way to eat in America (at least as my mother taught me). Of course very few Americans care about that particular sort of silliness much anymore. My personal style of eating is almost identical to that described by Cabra West, except with the hands switched. I favour this technique because it is efficient. Switching hands just to take a bite strikes me as sort of bizzare really.

Well, it's easy to see the idea behind it. Eating slowly was (and still is) considered polite. You don't just wolf your food down, you are supposed to enjoy every bite, to chew slowly and savour it.
Switching hands before each bite will automatically slow you down, so it's a very polite and civilised from of eating. It's a bit exaggerated, though, which is why it's out of fashion today.

I hold my fork with my right hand, and my knife with my left. I never switch hands. If I need a spoon, I'll put my fork down and grab the spoon with my right hand.

I don't take much time to chew my food. I chew as much as is needed, and that's it. This "polite" bullshit has always gotten on my nerves.

Well, it's easy to see the idea behind it. Eating slowly was (and still is) considered polite. You don't just wolf your food down, you are supposed to enjoy every bite, to chew slowly and savour it.
Switching hands before each bite will automatically slow you down, so it's a very polite and civilised from of eating. It's a bit exaggerated, though, which is why it's out of fashion today.
Yeah, I admit that I eat too fast actually, so maybe the 'polite' way isn't such a bad idea :)

I think the greater issue is why Americans don't have a soup spoon! I've had dinner in America, and that was my first question when the soup came out, "where is the soup spoon", I then had to explain to the waitress what a soup spoon was :headbang:

That's not an American thing. That's a whatever-restaurant-you-were-eating-in thing. I don't believe I've ever been served soup in a restaurant without a soup spoon...

I'll say this: What the FUCK?

I eat however the fuck I want. If somebody tells me to use my utensils a certain way, I pretty much say "fuck off". There's no such thing as "holding a utensil correctly". It's bullshit.

Well that IS bad-mannered.

Well that IS bad-mannered.

And why should I care?

Here is a good question; why is it when you have Americans at your house, they come in, eat, and bugger off before 8:00?

In Canada, we generally stay until you want to go home and sleep. The biggest exception is that you do not like your host(est). I was recently invited to my friends house for diner, and left at about midnight.

As far as etiquette goes, nobody really cares anymore. People here feel they have more important things to do and remember how to hold your utensils. What's the deal with have more than one type of the same utensil. It seems to be just a waste of reasources and energy(cleanning), when you consider using one fork for a meal works as well as using three or four.

And why should I care?

I didnt expect you to. That would be asking too much.

I didnt expect you to. That would be asking too much.

Ah, so you're one of the "people who don't follow my sense of etiquette are evil, bad people" types. My dad's much the same way.

Ah, so you're one of the "people who don't follow my sense of etiquette are evil, bad people" types. My dad's much the same way.
No, i'm one of the "People who sware in debates do so because they generally have nothing better to say" types actually.

No, i'm one of the "People who sware in debates do so because they generally have nothing better to say" types actually.

Haha. Really? I do that when I'm pissed off, and things like this piss me off to no end.

Here's a trash can. It's where "etiquette" belongs.

Haha. Really? I do that when I'm pissed off, and things like this piss me off to no end.

Here's a trash can. It's where "etiquette" belongs.

I accept your trash can. Perhaps I could use it for storing rubbish, such as your previous point.

I accept your trash can. Perhaps I could use it for storing rubbish, such as your previous point.

Maybe my point and your "etiquette" will become friends, unlike us.

:p

Maybe my point and your "etiquette" will become friends, unlike us.

:p
Well, I can safely say I'm in pieces now.

Well. We don’t like to impose. When someone invites us over for dinner, that is what we think. Dinner. Not Dinner and then stay for five hours.

Well, when you're invited for dinner, you're invited for an evening of eating socialising etc. etc. Please, why the hell would a person be invited around *just* for dinner? seems like a rather pointless and fruitless exercise.

Lets look at this for example; whilst in Australia (with parents, father was working over there), the American consul wife had to be taught, by local the other women, how to entertain - how to put on an evening for guests; pre-dinner drinks and nibbles, dinner (three courses), followed by coffee or port, with light conversation.

The idea of entertaining is a foreign concept to Americans, and having a good time, with drinking, singing and chatting is not even on the same radar! I mean, heavens, three drinks, and an American thinks thats going to an extreme, getting a little 'over board'.

I mean, good lord, remove the 6 foot cactus out of your ass, let your hair down, throw back a few Cab Sauv's and enjoy the evening!

That's not an American thing. That's a whatever-restaurant-you-were-eating-in thing. I don't believe I've ever been served soup in a restaurant without a soup spoon...

Do you know what a soup spoon is? a soup spoon should be round, not oval, the idea is, the larger the surface area, the better the ability to cool the soup to an enjoyable temperature.

Heck, restaurants, diners, heck, but a cutlery set in the US, no blasted soup spoon to be seen!

In Canada, we generally stay until you want to go home and sleep. The biggest exception is that you do not like your host(est). I was recently invited to my friends house for diner, and left at about midnight.

LOL :D sorry, forgot to add the Candians to the list of great entertainers; they're a great bunch, along with the Brits, sitting around, talking about the worlds problems over a nice nip of Baileys, great evenings; something to remember every time.

Jeez, I didn't realise that this 'elitist' style of etiquette still exists.

Do you know what a soup spoon is? a soup spoon should be round, not oval, the idea is, the larger the surface area, the better the ability to cool the soup to an enjoyable temperature.

Heck, restaurants, diners, heck, but a cutlery set in the US, no blasted soup spoon to be seen!

I'm sorry to burst your superiority bubble, but I know what a soup spoon is. I own several. I have used them at many restaurants in the US.

Well, when you're invited for dinner, you're invited for an evening of eating socialising etc. etc. Please, why the hell would a person be invited around *just* for dinner? seems like a rather pointless and fruitless exercise.

Lets look at this for example; whilst in Australia (with parents, father was working over there), the American consul wife had to be taught, by local the other women, how to entertain - how to put on an evening for guests; pre-dinner drinks and nibbles, dinner (three courses), followed by coffee or port, with light conversation.

The idea of entertaining is a foreign concept to Americans, and having a good time, with drinking, singing and chatting is not even on the same radar! I mean, heavens, three drinks, and an American thinks thats going to an extreme, getting a little 'over board'.

I mean, good lord, remove the 6 foot cactus out of your ass, let your hair down, throw back a few Cab Sauv's and enjoy the evening!

This is utter bullshit.

Apparently the Americans you have invited to your place got sick of your superiority complex and your elitist etiquette rules and fled at the first polite opportunity. :p

This is utter bullshit.

Apparently the Americans you have invited to your place got sick of your superiority complex and your elitist etiquette rules and fled at the first polite opportunity. :p

No, actually, they were the first to leave, and 5 hours later, after all the booze had be finished, the rest of them would leave.

Oh, and isn't this typical, when in doubt, bash the foreigner; sounds like the typical American complex; hell, why not well out the old WWII argument, coupled with "you're just jealous because of our inferior beer and wine" - yeah, that'll go down just right when you're boasting to all your mates at the local pub on how you put 'dat foreigner in his place'.

Well, when you're invited for dinner, you're invited for an evening of eating socialising etc. etc. Please, why the hell would a person be invited around *just* for dinner? seems like a rather pointless and fruitless exercise.

Lets look at this for example; whilst in Australia (with parents, father was working over there), the American consul wife had to be taught, by local the other women, how to entertain - how to put on an evening for guests; pre-dinner drinks and nibbles, dinner (three courses), followed by coffee or port, with light conversation.

The idea of entertaining is a foreign concept to Americans, and having a good time, with drinking, singing and chatting is not even on the same radar! I mean, heavens, three drinks, and an American thinks thats going to an extreme, getting a little 'over board'.

I mean, good lord, remove the 6 foot cactus out of your ass, let your hair down, throw back a few Cab Sauv's and enjoy the evening!
Also seems pretty rude - it implies that they only want to come over to eat then bugger off asap. Like they don't actually like your company but are there cause it's cheaper than getting take-aways and easier than cooking for themselves.

Your post reminds me of a story the lecturer in my International Business class told about the US consulate in NZ. They were invited to a BBQ and told to "bring a plate". You can imagine their embarassment!


I eat with the fork in my right hand, knife in my left cause my Dad's left-handed and always set the table when I was a kid. A lot of the time I only use my right hand - especially if cutting's not needed. I keep my left hand on my lap. Don't why I've developed this habit - probably just laziness and convenience.
This style once got me a free meal at a cheap Indian place I went to. I sat there eating my Murgh Korma with my right hand and then tore my naan bread up and, still using my right hand with my left on my lap, mopped up the gravy with it. The cook/owner came over and said I ate exactly like an Indian eats and gave me a meal to takeway on the house.
Which shows it is important to know local culture's eating habits.

No, actually, they were the first to leave, and 5 hours later, after all the booze had be finished, the rest of them would leave.

Oh, and isn't this typical, when in doubt, bash the foreigner; sounds like the typical American complex; hell, why not well out the old WWII argument, coupled with "you're just jealous because of our inferior beer and wine" - yeah, that'll go down just right when you're boasting to all your mates at the local pub on how you put 'dat foreigner in his place'.

*ehem*

Who starting bashing what foreigners?

FYI, my spouse worked for many years for a British company, so many of our close friends are from the UK.

I don't have anything against foreigners. I have something against nonsense. And you have been spouting it.

The type of entertaining you describe is typical here. (And I happen to like Guinness, Bass, New Castle Ale, Traquair House Ale, etc.)

Sorry, but your "you're just an ugly American" argument won't wash.

Also seems pretty rude - it implies that they only want to come over to eat then bugger off asap. Like they don't actually like your company but are there cause it's cheaper than getting take-aways and easier than cooking for themselves.

Your post reminds me of a story the lecturer in my International Business class told about the US consulate in NZ. They were invited to a BBQ and told to "bring a plate". You can imagine their embarassment!

I heard about something like that before. Drinks after work, with the company paying for the beer, is quite a shock to many Americans who move; or the idea of working and having a beer at lunch.

This style once got me a free meal at a cheap Indian place I went to. I sat there eating my Murgh Korma with my right hand and then tore my naan bread up and, still using my right hand with my left on my lap, mopped up the gravy with it. The cook/owner came over and said I ate exactly like an Indian eats and gave me a meal to takeway on the house.
Which shows it is important to know local culture's eating habits.

I do the same thing, but then again, walk down Auckland central, and the new joke is, "hmm, you don't seem to have many Asian restaurants" - the obvious sarcasm because the number on culinary dish served in NZ is Indian, followed by Chinese, with various other Asian dishes that follow - Auckland restaurant scene is virtually 95% Asian foods.

Mind you, the latest thing thats really picked up is the number who are shunning McDonalds and other fast food outlets for Kebabs and middle eastern foods that can be eaten on the go.

This is utter bullshit.

Apparently the Americans you have invited to your place got sick of your superiority complex and your elitist etiquette rules and fled at the first polite opportunity. :p
A bit rich this comment coming as it does from someone with one of the most pretentious quotes in their signature.
"Drink deep from the fount of knowledge doth thou? Oh verily my liege I do indeed!"

A bit rich this comment coming as it does from someone with one of the most pretentious quotes in their signature.
"Drink deep from the fount of knowledge doth thou? Oh verily my liege I do indeed!"

LOL.

You make some rather odd assumptions about the quote. It "doth" apply to everyone -- including me. :headbang:

But I must be elitist. I quoted a poem. :rolleyes:

Oh, but then I'm supposed to be an ignorant American, I'll go back to my corner with my dunce's cap. :confused:

I do the same thing, but then again, walk down Auckland central, and the new joke is, "hmm, you don't seem to have many Asian restaurants" - the obvious sarcasm because the number on culinary dish served in NZ is Indian, followed by Chinese, with various other Asian dishes that follow - Auckland restaurant scene is virtually 95% Asian foods.

Mind you, the latest thing thats really picked up is the number who are shunning McDonalds and other fast food outlets for Kebabs and middle eastern foods that can be eaten on the go.
Yep, that particular instance I gave was several years ago when Indian takeways were still a bit novel in Aucks (and thus mostly patronised by the Indian community), hence the freebie. It's never happened since and I can't see it happening ever again. Everyone's accustomed to Indian takeaways now.
If you ever get to HK, I strongly recommend heading to Tsim Sha Tsui (or TST as the locals usually call it) and going to the Chung King Mansions (a term of endearment or someone's idea of a sick joke). TST also offers a fantastic view of HK island at night. But that's by-the-by.
Chung King's full of illegal immigrants from the Indian subcontinent and Africa. A lot of them have converted small flats into restaurants and you can get the best Indian food I've ever tried dead cheap (entree, main, and naan bread for $15NZ). I've been told there's African restaurants there as well, but I haven't found them in the decrepit rabbit warren that is Chung King. It's easy to find - just wander around til you see a horde of Indians standing round on the street. As soon as you get close they descend on you trying to drag you into their restaurant. Also the best place to exchange money.

But I digress.

Speaking of Kebabs (your bit about 'eating on the go' though reminds me of a few dodgy kebabs I've had. I tend not to buy them in Summer - seeing that huge lump of meat sweating there for God knows how long puts me off) over here there's only a couple of places I know of that sell them. Cantonese just don't go for kebabs at all. Yet ironically enough McDs here sells 3 types of wrap that's similar to a kebab - cheap and pretty nice too. I've been to McDs here more times in the past year than I have in my entire life previous!

Where do they get the meat from for those big spikes? I've never seen them ever replace the meat. It just seems to magically replenish every couple of hours. My theory is that it's a giant tumor that's still growing. You occasionally hear about people having 80kg tumors being cut from them. Now where do you think that mass ends up?

Oh, but then I'm supposed to be an ignorant American, I'll go back to my corner with my dunce's cap. :confused:
Now, now. No need to enswathe thyself in thine hair shirt and flagellate thyself so. Nor any need for the inferiority complex - I was only teasing and I'd hate to think I'd upset someone. That just isn't my style at all. ;)

First time I've ever been called vulgar before. And I'm British.

Seriously, why would anyway give a damn which hand you hold your fork in or which way it points or whether you switch hands?

First time I've ever been called vulgar before. And I'm British.

Seriously, why would anyway give a damn which hand you hold your fork in or which way it points or whether you switch hands?
It does matter in some countries where using your left hand is very impolite. Your left hand is used for the very unsavoury aspects of personal hygiene maintenance in some countries (predominantly the ones where toilet paper is a luxury few can afford).

England is one part of United Kingdom, they're all different names for the same thing.

The national flag is the Union Jack, England has the red on white flag.

Here is a good question; why is it when you have Americans at your house, they come in, eat, and bugger off before 8:00?

I mean, have Australians, French, British, New Zealanders, around, and you'll find that dinner will go for 2-3 hours, talking, chatting, laughing, enjoying each others company, then sit around for the next 4 hours chatting and talking over coffee and biscuits - the whole evening will go till 2am.

Americans need to slow down and start to enjoy life rather than rush, rush around for superficial crap.

Because free time at home with ones family is a highly prized, but, seldom enjoyed luxury here. To overstay one welcome is considered very rude. When invited for dinner here, it means exactly that. If you want them to stick around you would have to invite them over for the evening.

First time I've ever been called vulgar before. And I'm British.

Seriously, why would anyway give a damn which hand you hold your fork in or which way it points or whether you switch hands?

Ok, here's my two sense worth.

I thought it was a British thing! The proper etique for royal dinners.. you know? Anyway, whoever is going around calling it vulgar seriously needs to have a little more appreciation for other cultures. Look in the mirror pal.

As an American with at least a little bit of culture, those were acceptable methods of eating in the 1950s. Today, it depends on the company, even in the most formal company, there is no expectation to switch the fork to the right hand. Then again, back in the day, Nuns didnt want anyone to write with their left hand either, so my grandmother told me stories about her school where they would hit your left hand with a ruler if they caught you, she then began writing right handed as did everyone.

Who wouldn't switch the fork to the right hand to eat other than a left handed person???? :confused:

Getting food from the plate to the mouth, however it is done, is acceptable.

England is one part of United Kingdom, they're all different names for the same thing.

The national flag is the Union Jack, England has the red on white flag.

Here is a good question; why is it when you have Americans at your house, they come in, eat, and bugger off before 8:00?

I mean, have Australians, French, British, New Zealanders, around, and you'll find that dinner will go for 2-3 hours, talking, chatting, laughing, enjoying each others company, then sit around for the next 4 hours chatting and talking over coffee and biscuits - the whole evening will go till 2am.

Americans need to slow down and start to enjoy life rather than rush, rush around for superficial crap.

What Americans have you been dining with? My friends and I act exactly as your Australian, French, British and New Zealand friends do -- it's a rare Saturday night that I am in bed before 3am.

It does matter in some countries where using your left hand is very impolite. Your left hand is used for the very unsavoury aspects of personal hygiene maintenance in some countries (predominantly the ones where toilet paper is a luxury few can afford).

That makes far more sense than it being impolite... "just because".

Liverbreath']Because free time at home with ones family is a highly prized, but, seldom enjoyed luxury here. To overstay one welcome is considered very rude. When invited for dinner here, it means exactly that. If you want them to stick around you would have to invite them over for the evening.

Exactly.

I heard about something like that before. Drinks after work, with the company paying for the beer, is quite a shock to many Americans who move; or the idea of working and having a beer at lunch.

Okay this goes with your comment about the three drinks is “over-board” thing. In the US, working adults are just not supposed to be heavy drinkers. We have harsh laws against drinking and driving, so we get used to not drinking a lot away from home. We also tend to frown on drinking while one is working. That isn’t a bad or good thing. It’s a cultural differences. The fact that you seem to somehow think that your culture is right is odd.

In Canada, we generally stay until you want to go home and sleep. The biggest exception is that you do not like your host(est). I was recently invited to my friends house for diner, and left at about midnight.

As far as etiquette goes, nobody really cares anymore. People here feel they have more important things to do and remember how to hold your utensils. What's the deal with have more than one type of the same utensil. It seems to be just a waste of reasources and energy(cleanning), when you consider using one fork for a meal works as well as using three or four.

In the US if you don't like the host, then you generally do not attend. We have books sold in volumes with excuses for such occasions! I honestly cannot imagine eating someone's food that I didn't like. That is the ultimate in low class IMHO.

It does matter in some countries where using your left hand is very impolite. Your left hand is used for the very unsavoury aspects of personal hygiene maintenance in some countries (predominantly the ones where toilet paper is a luxury few can afford).
It's usually much more of a 'no flushing toilets' matter than not being able to afford toilet paper. :p

No, actually, they were the first to leave, and 5 hours later, after all the booze had be finished, the rest of them would leave.

Oh, and isn't this typical, when in doubt, bash the foreigner; sounds like the typical American complex; hell, why not well out the old WWII argument, coupled with "you're just jealous because of our inferior beer and wine" - yeah, that'll go down just right when you're boasting to all your mates at the local pub on how you put 'dat foreigner in his place'.

I beg your pardon, but your characterization of Americans is rude in the extreme and untrue as far as my experiences go. Ironically, it is you who began the "bash the foreigner' technique as continues to be demonstrated here by bringing up 60 year old history which has no bearing whatsoever on a discussion of etiquette.

I am British and a stickler for good etiquette. My friend recently came across the following:

"In the American style, one cuts the food by holding the knife in the right hand and the fork in the left hand with the fork tines holding the food to the plate. The right method is to cut a few bite-size pieces of food, then lay your knife across the top edge of your plate with the sharp edge of the blade facing inwards and towards you. Then change your fork from your left hand into your right hand to eat, with the fork tines facing up."

This seems rather vulgar to me, so my question to Americans is "Do you actually find this to be an acceptable way to eat, especially in polite company?"
My parents do that somewhat. They put their knives down in between cutting food, I cant' remember if they put it down at the top of their plates in such a manner. (my parents are american)

I however, leave my knife in my hand until I am done with whatever needs cutting.

How is the method you found vulgar, exactly?

How is the method you found vulgar, exactly?

Why, because it's different from the way it's done where the posters holding it up as vulgar come from, of course. And why not have a go at bashing Americans while you can?

Incidentally, it is VERY rude to use a knife at the table in some Asian cultures at all -- the pieces have already been cut small enough to manage with chopsticks, so cutting them further is considered barbaric.

I consider getting the food to one's mouth without dropping it, using whatever implement has been provided, and being quiet about it polite. I consider harping on other's manners impolite in the extreme and -- what do you know -- so do mannerly people and teachers of etiquette!

I think there are many more important things in the world to be worried about other than which hand I hold my fork in. BTW, why are you watching me eat, anyway?

Why, because it's different from the way it's done where the posters holding it up as vulgar come from, of course. And why not have a go at bashing Americans while you can?

Incidentally, it is VERY rude to use a knife at the table in some Asian cultures at all -- the pieces have already been cut small enough to manage with chopsticks, so cutting them further is considered barbaric.
That's apparently where the wide-spread use of chop-sticks came from. An emperor from a long-time back proclaimed that any food that wasn't small enough for him to pick up with chop-sticks was barbaric and insisted that his food be cut up accordingly. I think the cook could be killed if it wasn't small enough. And of course this being the emperor, everyone else followed suit.

Sticking your chop-sticks upright into your food and leaving them there is extremely impolite. It's reminiscent of the two joss sticks they light at funerals. By having your chop-sticks shoved into your food in such a manner implies you wish death upon your host.

What I find odd here is that they have all these rules for how to eat (things like hiding your mouth behind your hand when using a toothpick - which I always got pulled up on when I first came here) yet they happily spit the bones out onto the table.
I've even seen people cut their fingernails at the table in a restaurant while waiting for their food and leave the cuttings on the table. No-one blinked an eye-lid, so I guess this is also acceptable.
Yet seeing someone use a toothpick isn't.

I think there are many more important things in the world to be worried about other than which hand I hold my fork in. BTW, why are you watching me eat, anyway?
You're the new Truman Burbank, didn't you know?

Why, because it's different from the way it's done where the posters holding it up as vulgar come from, of course. And why not have a go at bashing Americans while you can?

Incidentally, it is VERY rude to use a knife at the table in some Asian cultures at all -- the pieces have already been cut small enough to manage with chopsticks, so cutting them further is considered barbaric.

I consider getting the food to one's mouth without dropping it, using whatever implement has been provided, and being quiet about it polite. I consider harping on other's manners impolite in the extreme and -- what do you know -- so do mannerly people and teachers of etiquette!

Agreed, one of the biggest breaches of etiquette is to scold others for inoffensive behavior.

The most vulgar thing here is the suggestion that the way some people hold a fork or in which hand some hold a knife is vulgar.

I've even seen people cut their fingernails at the table in a restaurant while waiting for their food and leave the cuttings on the table. No-one blinked an eye-lid, so I guess this is also acceptable.

I'd wager that that's not acceptable anywhere. :mad:

Agreed, one of the biggest breaches of etiquette is to scold others for inoffensive behavior.

The most vulgar thing here is the suggestion that the way some people hold a fork or in which hand some hold a knife is vulgar.

No the vulgar thing is that some people have no table etiquette. Awful.

I as a proud American could care less how the asians eat or feel about how we eat. As long as I'm not hungry who cares how it gets to your mouth!!!!

I as a proud American could care less how the asians eat or feel about how we eat. As long as I'm not hungry who cares how it gets to your mouth!!!!

This really does sum up a lot. Really. Why bother trying to correct them at all? It won't change this attitude.

No the vulgar thing is that some people have no table etiquette. Awful.

If you are eating with Americans and tell them the way they hold their fork is vulgar, you have no table manners.

If you are eating with people from the UK and tell them the way they hold their fork is vulgar, you have no table manners.

If you are eating with Australians and tell them the way they hold their fork is vulgar, you have no table manners.

Get the drift?

You're the new Truman Burbank, didn't you know?


I've heard of Truman Capote, but not this guy. I'm going to assume this isn't a flattering comparison.

This really does sum up a lot. Really. Why bother trying to correct them at all? It won't change this attitude.

Fine. 295 million Americans, much of Europe, etc, wish to "correct" the way you hold your fork?

Will you change the way you dine in your green and pleasant land?

Ihatevacations']Who doesn't eat with their hands? I see yo udidn't visit the south >_>
I agree, this is hogwash, who gives a flying rip about what hand uses the knife or which hand holds the fork.

I'am from Texas and we slap food on an open fire and start eating it while it's screaming! What about hotdogs or hambugers or sandwiches?, who's going to use a fork for these?

I've much more important issues in my life, than to be worrying about how another person holds his knife or fork to eat his/her food. As long as you're not being a complete jackass slob who cares, except some stuckup snob? Nobody.

You would get beat up by the school yard sissy of America with that attitude.

Fine. 295 million Americans, much of Europe, etc, wish to "correct" the way you hold your fork?

Will you change the way you dine in your green and pleasant land?

no

no

"Why bother trying to correct [you] at all? It won't change this attitude."

I've heard of Truman Capote, but not this guy. I'm going to assume this isn't a flattering comparison.
I was refering to the movie 'The Truman Show'. Surely you've seen it!

Okay this goes with your comment about the three drinks is “over-board” thing. In the US, working adults are just not supposed to be heavy drinkers. We have harsh laws against drinking and driving, so we get used to not drinking a lot away from home. We also tend to frown on drinking while one is working. That isn’t a bad or good thing. It’s a cultural differences. The fact that you seem to somehow think that your culture is right is odd.

Its not about what is right and wrong, its an example of extreme anal retention. Oh, and three beers in a night ISN'T heavy drinking - want to see heavy drinking, then go to the local Wrightsons plant, and see 48 beers being slugged between 5-6 guys at the end of work - *THATS* heavy drinking :D

"Why bother trying to correct [you] at all? It won't change this attitude."

I think you'll find there is nothing to correct.

"Why bother trying to correct [you] at all? It won't change this attitude."

I think you'll find there is nothing to correct. I have manners

I think pre-cutting your portions smacks of childhood when your mommy would cut things all nice for you. It always strikes me as odd when I see people eating like this.


BTW, the Fins eat European style but invert the fork, pushing the food on the back of the tines rather than the usual way...or so I was told by a Finn...who may have been exhibiting the mythical Finnish sense of humour (apparently it counts as humour...somehow)

I'd wager that that's not acceptable anywhere. :mad:
Well, all I can say is that I've seen it happen quite a few times in the local noodle shops. I was even with my g/f's family once for a big dinner at a restaurant and her step-father asked her sister for nail-clippers which were duly handed over. He then proceeded to clip his nails while carrying on a conversation and no-one acted like it was out of the ordinary at all.
I was glad to be over the other side of the large table, as I probably would have been put off my food otherwise.


I just realised something re my comments about toothpicks. Chow Yuen Fat used to always have as his gimmick in his HK gangster movies a toothpick in his mouth (and of course 6 pistols on his body).
One of those things lost in translation I guess. It means nothing in Western culture seeing a guy with a toothpick wedged in the side of his mouth. But my guess is that walking around with a toothpick sticking out of your mouth is extremely rude over here, so it was making a statement that he didn't give a damn what others thought of him.

Its not about what is right and wrong, its an example of extreme anal retention. Oh, and three beers in a night ISN'T heavy drinking - want to see heavy drinking, then go to the local Wrightsons plant, and see 48 beers being slugged between 5-6 guys at the end of work - *THATS* heavy drinking :D

How impressive. :rolleyes:

Relatively few Americans would think three beers in the course of several hours is heavy drinking. Even a driver can do that.

Although the US's per capita alcohol consumption is lower than the UK's, it is not that low. And the UK drinks far less than many other countries.

I'm not sure how you came to see amount of alcohol consumption as a point of national pride, but the UK is 12th and the US 21st out of the top 50 countries. Luxemburg and Ireland top the list. (I would have guessed the later. :D )

How impressive. :rolleyes:

Relatively few Americans would think three beers in the course of several hours is heavy drinking. Even a driver can do that.

Although the US's per capita alcohol consumption is lower than the UK's, it is not that low. And the UK drinks far less than many other countries.

I'm not sure how you came to see amount of alcohol consumption as a point of national pride, but the UK is 12th and the US 21st out of the top 50 countries. Luxemburg and Ireland top the list. (I would have guessed the later. :D )
That's because you're obviously not Australian. Ockers binge drink more than heavy drink, so they kinda under-represented in the alc consumption tables.
And it is a source of national pride.
David Boon was admired as a damn good cricketer but even more so as the bloke who set a record of 50 cans drunk on the Oz-UK flight heading towards a test series. And don't get them started about Merv Hughes!
I think quite a few times Bob Hawke turned up to Parliament pissed. But you'd need to get an Ozzie to confirm/deny this bruit.

I eat with the fork in my right hand, knife in my left cause my Dad's left-handed and always set the table when I was a kid. A lot of the time I only use my right hand - especially if cutting's not needed. I keep my left hand on my lap. Don't why I've developed this habit - probably just laziness and convenience.
This style once got me a free meal at a cheap Indian place I went to. I sat there eating my Murgh Korma with my right hand and then tore my naan bread up and, still using my right hand with my left on my lap, mopped up the gravy with it. The cook/owner came over and said I ate exactly like an Indian eats and gave me a meal to takeway on the house.
Which shows it is important to know local culture's eating habits.

What a thoroughly enjoyable story! I eat the same way (Though for different reasons) and have many a time been complimented at cultural restaurants. It seems though that the fork/knife/switch-hand business is fairly unimportant because it is not uncommon that (when I am in America) I am asked if it is typical that my people have such superb manners (as I myself place great emphasis on the idea of chewing with the mouth closed, posture, and complimenting those who put effort into feeding me). Also, this business about entertaining is perfectly legitimate. I have been around the world; I have been able to deduce that Americans indeed do not know how to entertain in the fashion of European or Asian cultures. This however is replaced by their own traditions. Entertaining is usually a separate event from eating (or in the case of a barbecue doing so with a complete lack of manners, a concept which allows complete relaxation while being fed and entertained socially) and happens on different days. Friends will often go out bowling, golfing etc. and not eat the entire time. Cursing, however, I cannot tolerate; depending on who you are with from America you may have to endure moderate or even heavy profanity; It is just as common though to be with someone who is polite in that aspect.

And beside, if it's good enough for the Quebecois, who are the most European of all North Americans, then it's good for everybody. :D

I have to agree with this, I find the Quebecois to be far more European then some Europeans. Like the British. Really, the English channel should be the new continent divide.

The crossover style of eating most wellbred Americans use is one of our numerous differences in culture from the British. It's hard to imagine it becoming an issue. At a mixed table, one would follow the example of the hostess rather than making some obscure statement by clashing elbows with one's neighborhood. Simple, huh?

Well.. to eat corn or beans with a fork you'd have to have the fork turned upward to hold them while making the way to your mouth.... unless you sit there and poke each individual kernal or bean. That would be as annoying to watch as do. Or in "proper etiquette" do you suppose to use a spoon for beans and corn? When eating mashed potatoes do you scoop them up on the back of the fork also? I use soup spoons when eating soup or cereal. I can't stand tea spoons.

I eat with my right hand.. I'm right handed. If I'm having bread with my meal.. that is usually what is in my left hand. After I cut my meat the knife goes down and the fork back in my right hand. If I'm eating fried chicken or ribs.. I use my hands! Usually use my hands to eat corn on the cob too. I rarely bother with the things that stick in them.


As long as the person uses untensils (when eating food you need utensils with), eats with their mouth closed, doesn't burp out loud, fart, suck their teeth, blow / pick their nose or any other part of their body , hawk up a loogey or spit at the table .. I'm fine.

I don't understand the problem of cutting ones food into small portions, unless you're cave man and plan on eating the steak ect.. whole.

There is nothing wrong with having good manners when dining out, but they're a restaurants that are meant for casual, relaxed eating. Try eating Salsa and chips with a fork? and a cold beer just makes some foods taste even better, burrrp!
pardon me' infact My nation's moto is, "The Cold Beer State Of Mind"

Hey, I've got few cold beers here, anybody want one?

I don't understand the problem of cutting ones food into small portions, unless you're cave man and plan on eating the steak ect.. whole.

There is nothing wrong with having good manners when dining out, but they're a restaurants that are meant for casual, relaxed eating. Try eating Salsa and chips with a fork? and a cold beer just makes some foods taste even better, burrrp!
pardon me' infact My nation's moto is, "The Cold Beer State Of Mind"

Hey, I've got few cold beers here, anybody want one?


Sure do! :)

Might run off the the store now.. to get more!

Is this acceptable, just saw Cathlolic Europe's topic destroed and found this:

Thread deleted by Cogitation
Reason: Postcount celebrations are prohibited on NationStates

I am wondering if breathing is prohibited while on NS. Heil Cogitation! :rolleyes:

Well, when you're invited for dinner, you're invited for an evening of eating socialising etc. etc. Please, why the hell would a person be invited around *just* for dinner? seems like a rather pointless and fruitless exercise.

Lets look at this for example; whilst in Australia (with parents, father was working over there), the American consul wife had to be taught, by local the other women, how to entertain - how to put on an evening for guests; pre-dinner drinks and nibbles, dinner (three courses), followed by coffee or port, with light conversation.

The idea of entertaining is a foreign concept to Americans, and having a good time, with drinking, singing and chatting is not even on the same radar! I mean, heavens, three drinks, and an American thinks thats going to an extreme, getting a little 'over board'.

I mean, good lord, remove the 6 foot cactus out of your ass, let your hair down, throw back a few Cab Sauv's and enjoy the evening!

Well then, I'm not inviting you to my house. Here where I'm from, you eat dinner and socialize then do whatever the hell you want. If you wanna go home early because you got things to do, then do it. Otherwise you stick around for the evening and talk or do whatever. That other poster was right, you need to get over your superiority complex and quit talking like we can't do anything right.

Its not about what is right and wrong, its an example of extreme anal retention. Oh, and three beers in a night ISN'T heavy drinking - want to see heavy drinking, then go to the local Wrightsons plant, and see 48 beers being slugged between 5-6 guys at the end of work - *THATS* heavy drinking :D

I think you're getting a bit uptight over worrying about how we have fun. People are different, not everybody likes to drink. I'll drink a lot if alcohol is there, other's don't touch it. Doesn't mean we don't have fun.

The right method is to cut a few bite-size pieces of food, then lay your knife across the top edge of your plate with the sharp edge of the blade facing inwards and towards you.

Who said that was right? Anyways when I am having a fancy dinner I cut everything up (if I have to use a knife) then I place the knife on the table beside me (so I don't knock it off). I then switch the fork from my left hand to my right (I am right handed I understand left handed people using left hands (I don't care)) and eat. If I don't need to (the meal's not fancy or messy I use my hands.

I eat with the fork in my left, the knife in my right and my glass to the right of my plate but god i would never be rude enough to comment on somebody elses eating habits to their face. i mean, does it really matter! i do shiver when i see somebody using their hands but i would never point out to them the shiny pieces of silver next to their plate.

cultural habits are just different. i am sure somebody from china would snigger to see me use chopsticks in the same way we laugh at the americans trying to eat properly. (they do try though ;) bless 'em)

the chopstick has been around for 5,000 years
the fork was first used as a cooking utensil in anicient greece, then used for eating around bizantium times

the knife is prehistoric

still, it will take a good few hundred years for americans to learn how to use them properly, maybe this type of rule for them to follow makes them feel they have a history, instead of evolving from a colony... which we started.

Well, all I can say is that I've seen it happen quite a few times in the local noodle shops. I was even with my g/f's family once for a big dinner at a restaurant and her step-father asked her sister for nail-clippers which were duly handed over. He then proceeded to clip his nails while carrying on a conversation and no-one acted like it was out of the ordinary at all.

When I waited tables (in America) I saw several people clip their fingernails at the table, and one even clipped his toenails while waiting for their food to arrive. *blech*

It took every ounce of self-restraint to not say something; it was never my job to correct a guest, but I sure wanted to.

Who said that was right? Anyways when I am having a fancy dinner I cut everything up (if I have to use a knife) then I place the knife on the table beside me (so I don't knock it off). I then switch the fork from my left hand to my right (I am right handed I understand left handed people using left hands (I don't care)) and eat. If I don't need to (the meal's not fancy or messy I use my hands.

Actually most etiquette books agree that you should never seperate more than your next bite with your knife. Regardless, a good host doesn't (or at least pretends not to) notice a guest's "eating style". Personally, I'm far more concerned with the erosion of the important good manners "Please," "Thank you," and treating people with respect than whether or not people I like handle a fork properly...

When I waited tables (in America) I saw several people clip their fingernails at the table, and one even clipped his toenails while waiting for their food to arrive. *blech*

It took every ounce of self-restraint to not say something; it was never my job to correct a guest, but I sure wanted to.


WTF! Clipping fingernails alone in a restaurant is nasty to me. Even when I clip my nails at home, I'm over the sink, garbage bin or outside. Toenails! Why the hell didn't they have on shoes? In most places it is mandatory to have on a shirt and shoes to even walk in or be served. Was it at the beach? Either way.. that is uncool. I think I would've had to say something. lol

I'm far more concerned with the erosion of the important good manners "Please," "Thank you," and treating people with respect than whether or not people I like handle a fork properly...

The only manners that matter.

who here sticks their little finger out when they drink? :sniper:

Well then, I'm not inviting you to my house. Here where I'm from, you eat dinner and socialize then do whatever the hell you want. If you wanna go home early because you got things to do, then do it. Otherwise you stick around for the evening and talk or do whatever. That other poster was right, you need to get over your superiority complex and quit talking like we can't do anything right.
Yeah, and whoever said, We American's don't know how to throw a party aint been to the right places and we sure as hell do know how to have fun. In the South part of the country, we think 30 or 40 guest is a pretty good start. We usually offer: fully cooked beef,chicken,pork,turkey,deer,frog,fish and all the side dishes you could ever want. Also we offer many refreshing beverages to wash it down, such as: tea,coffee,milk,water,beer,wine,whiskey and wombat juice.

For entertainment we offer swimming pool, horse shoes, billards/pool,volleyball,drinking contest,wrestling,skirt chasing,football,skeet shooting,rodeos,dancing and bar hopping just to name a few.

But the best part is we tend to mind our own business, we understand what a guy in New York calls fine dining and having a good time, might be totally different than a guy from the south, but to each his/her own cup of tea and we accept that. If everyone always did the same thing as everyone else, how boring of a world would that be? pretty boring indeed. Cheers!

When eating something I need to cut with a knife, I use the knife in my right hand and keep the fork in my left hand. What's the point of switching hands? I use spoons to eat beans, mashed potatoes, and pretty much anything else that doesn't need to be stabbed, does fit on the spoon,(foods that I eat with a fork are usually large enough that more than two pieces of it wouldn't fit on a spoon) and isn't meant to be eaten with your hands.

I don't really care how others eat as long as they're being civil about the other things they're doing at the meal.

I'm left handed. The fork always stays in my left hand. I only set my knife down when I need my right hand for something else, like my lovely beverage. So I guess I'm a bit of a hybrid.

The only thing I don't understand is why it would ever be considered "impolite" to impale the intended bit of food with the fork. It's going into your mouth, right? Besides, what if the sauce on the plate is slippery? Merely pressing the tines laterally on top of the intended slice might not be enough to keep the greater slab of food from slipping.

Oh yeah, the only other thing I wonder is who actually, seriously, or devotedly gives a shit and why. Surely there are more important thing to carp about.

Next someone will get on my case for eating a slice of pie with the point towards me. I'm told this sounds weird in Europe. But it is just how it's done!

Next someone will get on my case for eating a slice of pie with the point towards me. I'm told this sounds weird in Europe. But it is just how it's done!

isnt that the 'right' way? :confused: use a desert fork, cut the pie with the edge then put it into your mouth.. :rolleyes: lol

isnt that the 'right' way? :confused: use a desert fork, cut the pie with the edge then put it into your mouth.. :rolleyes: lol

I mean simply eating with the triangle pointing towards you and eating. I'm told others simply eat as it is laid out in front of them and that turning the plate to have the point facing you is weird to some.

I eat with the fork in my left, the knife in my right and my glass to the right of my plate but god i would never be rude enough to comment on somebody elses eating habits to their face. i mean, does it really matter! i do shiver when i see somebody using their hands but i would never point out to them the shiny pieces of silver next to their plate.

cultural habits are just different. i am sure somebody from china would snigger to see me use chopsticks in the same way we laugh at the americans trying to eat properly. (they do try though ;) bless 'em)

the chopstick has been around for 5,000 years
the fork was first used as a cooking utensil in anicient greece, then used for eating around bizantium times

the knife is prehistoric

still, it will take a good few hundred years for americans to learn how to use them properly, maybe this type of rule for them to follow makes them feel they have a history, instead of evolving from a colony... which we started.

Very true.

Chinese and Japanese custom also dictates that the chopsticks should never touch your mouth. That sounds reasonable enough, and I pretty much agreed with everything, until I saw the Japanese (I'm not sure if its done like this all the time) way of eating soup. Some kind of seashell is used, balanced between the chopsticks, dipped in the soup, brought to the mouth, and repeated. I found this unbelievably strange. Does anyone know if thats the way its formally done?

I mean simply eating with the triangle pointing towards you and eating. I'm told others simply eat as it is laid out in front of them and that turning the plate to have the point facing you is weird to some.

To be fair, it does seem a little odd. What sort of pie is it, just out of general interest?

I mean simply eating with the triangle pointing towards you and eating. I'm told others simply eat as it is laid out in front of them and that turning the plate to have the point facing you is weird to some.

haha! i dont see a problem with that... unless you were really precise putting your nose to the table to get a level view and then measuring the point so its directly facing you... the guests i have...

To be fair, it does seem a little odd. What sort of pie is it, just out of general interest?

When I envision it it is a piece of lemon merange pie.

To be fair, it does seem a little odd. What sort of pie is it, just out of general interest?

When I envision it it is a piece of lemon merange pie.

Oh yeah, the only other thing I wonder is who actually, seriously, or devotedly gives a shit and why. Surely there are more important thing to carp about.

That's what I'm thinking!

When I envision it it is a piece of lemon merange pie.
oh i was rather hoping for strawberry cheesecake... *sighs*

That's what I'm thinking!

because we dont want the great states of this world (and america) to be taken over by people with no social standing or politeness. i mean, throw it to the chavs why dont you? you must be yourself

That's what I'm thinking!
Oh so you think now, do you? evolution must be going on all the time

Next someone will get on my case for eating a slice of pie with the point towards me. I'm told this sounds weird in Europe. But it is just how it's done!
There is only but three ways that are proper to eat pie, I know this is a bit of an revel, but those three ways are (Hot Pie) (Cold Pie) and (With Ice Cream)

There are really only two rules for polite dining:
If you are the host, make sure your guest is comfortable.

If you are the guest, make sure your host is comfortable.

This may entail a certain amount of research on your part to make sure you don't break any cultural taboos, and a certain amount of inventiveness if you find you have accidentally done so, but it's all part of the experience.

Sharing food with anyone indicates trust, friendship, reconciliation, apology, support -- except where it indicates envy, class-consciousness, boastfulness, spite, one-upsmanship, sheer excess ...

This discussion has come a long way from the Miss Manners-type query that set it off. We've done physics, philosophy, psychology, sociology -- now, who's gonna do the washing-up?

I guess I will lol!

So how should you react if your date decides to pour her drink in your lap and turn that pie alamo upsidedown on your head?

there is a school of thought that says that depending on where you stand, anything (and nothing) is considered acceptable (or rude)

go figure

because we dont want the great states of this world (and america) to be taken over by people with no social standing or politeness. i mean, throw it to the chavs why dont you? you must be yourself

Yeah, like we need a world full of "Oh, good show, thank you very much for that splendid meal, old chap." people...

I mean simply eating with the triangle pointing towards you and eating. I'm told others simply eat as it is laid out in front of them and that turning the plate to have the point facing you is weird to some.

Actually, the dessert should be served to you with point facing you. If it wasn't, your server did part of his or her job wrong. (When you are served your entree, the meat (or the "main" if it's a vegetarian dish) should be closest to you (at 6 o'clock) or in the center of the plate. If it isn't served this way, it's "wrong", but neither most servers nor most guests know or care.)

Actually, the dessert should be served to you with point facing you. If it wasn't, your server did part of his or her job wrong. (When you are served your entree, the meat (or the "main" if it's a vegetarian dish) should be closest to you (at 6 o'clock) or in the center of the plate. If it isn't served this way, it's "wrong", but neither most servers nor most guests know or care.)

I'd like to know who made these "rules" for eating...

I'd like to know who made these "rules" for eating...

I think the Four Seasons can be found to be the root of most of the service absolutes I've quoted which are probably based on archaic etiquette rules. I really ought to know this, but I don't.

I think the Four Seasons can be found to be the root of most of the service absolutes I've quoted which are probably based on archaic etiquette rules. I really ought to know this, but I don't.

I for one, am glad you don't!

Etiquette, schmetiquette.

I guess I will lol!

So how should you react if your date decides to pour her drink in your lap and turn that pie alamo upsidedown on your head?

Ponder this, O Grasshopper: "If a man does anything in a forest where there are no women present to see, is he still in the wrong?"

Obviously, you should apologise. You weren't making her comfortable, were you?

On the other hand, it might be a very subtle come-on ...

in WWII germans could tell if downed pilots were american or british by inviting them to dinner parties.