NationStates Jolt Archive

Definitions of family can only lead to one thing... disagreement. There are those who see it as some kind of contracted business arrangement based on some vague concept of love, and others who see it as a miniature version of the State, a hierarchical structure within the home that is equal in design to the larger governing force outside the family's door. In the latter, the outward-looking, compassionate family is the composition of the government, not a deluge of self-serving individuals who have exercise their "rights" to institute order with no example of order in their own lives.

But all this is beside the point. There are many different opinions. So if you go with group #1, the business-marriage-type who care little for government composition and more about social position, go ahead and stick around people who agree with you and stay the hell away from me. And in return, I'll stay around people who agree with me and leave you alone. The answer to that incessant age-old question is, "No! We can't all just get along!" Just stop spouting meaningless garbage about gay rights, pedophile's rights, cannibals' rights, etc. Believe it or not, there are some people who don't see those issues as rights, but rather see them as situations that shit on the rights of others, such as the right of the State to maintain lasting order, and not allow the populace to dehumanize themselves to a flock of animals rubbing up against trees for kicks and sniffing each other's asses. And you people call yourselves progressive.

*Raises flag of unity here* :D

... allow the populace to dehumanize themselves to a flock of animals rubbing up against trees for kicks and sniffing each other's asses.

Whatever floats your boat.

You're entirely welcome to not dehumanize yourself, but dammit if I want to dehumanize myself, you ain't gonna stop me!

You don't have to associate with me, but if you do choose to associate with me, don't complain about me, or my pool boy and I will come after you with leather whips. :rolleyes:

Believe it or not, there are some people who don't see those issues as rights, but rather see them as situations that shit on the rights of others, such as the right of the State to maintain lasting order, and not allow the populace to dehumanize themselves to a flock of animals rubbing up against trees for kicks and sniffing each other's asses. And you people call yourselves progressive.

So in your opinion, acting like something other than total stiffs is something the State must fight against, and you're berating us for not going along with your version of things?

Nice.

I do agree with most of what Christi Sanguis said, although I do not like the tone. Modern society constantly goes on about the rights of various ad hoc groups of people, but they do not talk about responsibilities. People have the responsibility to act as Christians, and moral people.
On the issue of the family modernity keeps taking away the rights of parents, degrading the family, and promoting unstable families, and then the culture wonders why we have rampant youth crime.

People have the responsibility to act as Christians, and moral people.
why the hell do i have the responsibility to act as a christian? nobody has to do that. i have no problem with being a moral person, but being christian is against some of my morals.

So if you go with group #1, the business-marriage-type who care little for government composition and more about social position, go ahead and stick around people who agree with you and stay the hell away from me. And in return, I'll stay around people who agree with me and leave you alone.
That's your right. It's not your right, however, to make everyone think the way you do or act the way you want to based on your impossible to prove religious principles. So stay the hell out of my life and my gay friends' lives, thanks.

Your characterization of the liberal view of the family is wrong. It's not a business arrangement so much as an expression of love and connection between individuals. The purposes that, if you actually read the Bible, God wishes unions to convey.

The answer to that incessant age-old question is, "No! We can't all just get along!" Just stop spouting meaningless garbage about gay rights,
"No! We can't all just get along!" Just stop spouting meaningless garbage about civil rights, women's rights, etc. This is the same regressive bullshit we heard when blacks and women wished to be recognized as equals in society - I don't want to hear them because my morality says that they aren't as good as I am. Well, guess what? That's not the way America (or most other nations) is (are)! We give everyone equal rights, including the right to believe in an anachronistic and discriminatory philosophy and the right not to associate with people whose very existance offends them. So, once everyone has equal rights, the gays will stay out of your face, because they don't want to see you anymore than you want to see them.

pedophile's rights, cannibals' rights, etc.
Wonderful strawmen you've set up there. No one's saying that, because those practices demonstrably hurt other people. The evidence that gay rights hurt other people is nonexistant.

Believe it or not, there are some people who don't see those issues as rights, but rather see them as situations that shit on the rights of others, such as the right of the State to maintain lasting order, and not allow the populace to dehumanize themselves to a flock of animals rubbing up against trees for kicks and sniffing each other's asses. And you people call yourselves progressive.
First, there's no evidence that gay marriage hurts society. It's all extracted from mistranlations of the Bible and "scientists" who cooked up some non-sense data to support they way they view the world. Every credible study has shown that the legalization of gay marriage and the equality of gays in society has actually had positive effects on society.

Futher, let's dig into the assumptions behind your post. You believe that it's the state's role to classify life as "desireable" or "undesireable" based on their sexuality. When the state gets to do that, it's only a short hop to describing that life as a "pollution of the body politic which needs to be purged," rhetoric which one actually hears from the far right today. So, how do you purge the gays from our happy Christian society? We have to kill them. Kill them, becuase they're a stain on our perfect picture of the way the world works. They disrupt the fantasy of your morality being the only true morality. I gather that sounds repugnant to you. Then, you know what you should do? Stop spouting ridiculous rhetoric and realize the state has no business legislating sexuality!

I do agree with most of what Christi Sanguis said, although I do not like the tone. Modern society constantly goes on about the rights of various ad hoc groups of people, but they do not talk about responsibilities. People have the responsibility to act as Christians, and moral people.
On the issue of the family modernity keeps taking away the rights of parents, degrading the family, and promoting unstable families, and then the culture wonders why we have rampant youth crime.

OK, I'm puzzled here. Are you saying that I have the responsibility to act as a christian?
If so why? I'm Pagan and have my own stringent moral standards which I meet without reference to a christian model.

On a more general "family" note. Who has the right to define the family?
What may work for one group may not for another. when groups are made of individuals then one form of family will not work for everyone.
We need to accept that if a grouping of people works, whatever it may be, that it needs to be respected. If it fails then we can not critisise it as a whole. It may, as a strategy, work for others.

The, predominately western christian, model of dominant patriarc (sp) and submissive matriarc (again sp) with squeeky clean kids is a fairly successful model but wont wash with a lot of us and no-one will convince me otherwise.

How does gay rights "shit on the rights of others" as the original post so eloquently puts it?

How does gay rights "shit on the rights of others" as the original post so eloquently puts it?

It doesn't, but some Christians have their heads so far up their asses that they are shitting on themselves and think that it is actually homosexual rights that is shitting on them.

There are many different opinions. So if you go with group #1, the business-marriage-type who care little for government composition and more about social position, go ahead and stick around people who agree with you and stay the hell away from me. And in return, I'll stay around people who agree with me and leave you alone. The answer to that incessant age-old question is, "No! We can't all just get along!" Just stop spouting meaningless garbage about gay rights, pedophile's rights, cannibals' rights, etc. Believe it or not, there are some people who don't see those issues as rights, but rather see them as situations that shit on the rights of others, such as the right of the State to maintain lasting order, and not allow the populace to dehumanize themselves to a flock of animals rubbing up against trees for kicks and sniffing each other's asses. And you people call yourselves progressive.
What the fuck are you talking about?

For those of you who are having a hard time with the definition of family;
fam·i·ly Audio pronunciation of "family" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fm-l, fml)
n. pl. fam·i·lies

1.
1. A fundamental social group in society typically consisting of one or two parents and their children.
2. Two or more people who share goals and values, have long-term commitments to one another, and reside usually in the same dwelling place.
2. All the members of a household under one roof.
3. A group of persons sharing common ancestry. See Usage Note at collective noun.
4. Lineage, especially distinguished lineage.
5. A locally independent organized crime unit, as of the Cosa Nostra.
6.
1. A group of like things; a class.
2. A group of individuals derived from a common stock: the family of human beings.
www.dictionary.com

Hope it helps.