NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, my marriage will be a sham if it happens in front of a pastor! ;)

Pastor, Bishop, Priest. Whichever is the right title. The point still remains so long as it is a representative of the Christian church who did the officiating and you say that any other marriage is a sham.

Please tell me how I have done that.

By stating that "God is and should be the most important 'thing' in all our lives. By allowing individuals to think that they are supreme and the most important we get evil, sin and degradation in our societies."
You denied individuals to choose the way to live their lifes.

Odd. I have never believed in God in any way, shape, or form, and I have not degenerated into evil and degradation. Indeed, I believe my lack of God-belief is one of the most important factors in making me the person I am today, and that it would be impossible to be a truly moral and decent person if I believed in God. My parents have never believed in God in any way, shape, or form, and they are just about the greatest people you could ever hope to meet. In fact, to the best of my knowledge none of my living first-degree relatives have ever been religious, and they're all very responsible, kind, honorable, intelligent, productive members of society.

Well, whilst you may think you are this wonderful and good moral person, that is not necessarily true.

Odd, also, that religious persons are OVER-represented in prison populations when compared to atheists and agnostics. Odd, that self-described "strong religiosity" in parents is the second leading factor in predicting abuse of children (the first is alcoholism). Odd, that children of self-described "very religious" families are nearly 30% more likely to be directly involved with a teen pregnancy (either as the mother or father).

1) Prison causes a lot of people to become religious, that might explain the over-representation, but are you saying that Black people who are also over-represented in prison are inherently bad morally? That to me is racism.

2) Are you saying that teen pregnancy is wrong? I was a teen pregnancy and am very offended at that suggestion. Are you saying that my parents were wrong because they had me whilst they were teenagers. Are you saying that I am wrong.

Is it possible that your disgusting generalization might be in some way incorrect?

Possibly, but I will stick to it because I don't believe that to be true.

Pastor, Bishop, Priest. Whichever is the right title. The point still remains so long as it is a representative of the Christian church who did the officiating and you say that any other marriage is a sham.

Well, that's not strictly true because if my marriage was conducted by Baptist pastor, for example, according to Catholic doctrine it would be invalid because they are not in apostolic succession.

2) Are you saying that teen pregnancy is wrong? I was a teen pregnancy and am very offended at that suggestion. Are you saying that my parents were wrong because they had me whilst they were teenagers. Are you saying that I am wrong.

Wait, so you get offended when people call 'you' wrong, but calling others wrong is no problem?

Wait, so you get offended when people call 'you' wrong, but calling others wrong is no problem?

Okay, perhaps wrong was the incorrect word to use.

What I was getting offended at was that he was suggesting that it was bad, incorrect, morally wrong that I was a teenage pregnancy. I doubt you will understand what I am going on about but it's true what I am saying.

We were having this discussion in History once and one of the girls said that it was wrong to have teenage pregnancies. As a teenage pregnancy myself, I was offended and so was another person in my class, who was also a teenage pregnancy.

You probably weren't a teenage pregnancy and so will not know.

Well, that's not strictly true because if my marriage was conducted by Baptist pastor, for example, according to Catholic doctrine it would be invalid because they are not in apostolic succession.

Perhaps I am not quite getting my point across. Let me try once more. Whichever version of Christianity you practice, you claim it to be irrevocably intertwined with religion. In this case, it appears you mean only your religion. But it is not.

And until you prove to me that religion created the concept of marriage, which I doubt you can, I will hold on to the grounds that religion holds on great say over it. They can choose to bless or not bless a union under marriage, but they cannot pick and choose who can or cannot become married as it is not their creation to do with as they please.

Baseless claims of religion claiming ownership of marriage hold about as much strength as Apple computers claiming ownership of Microsoft.

Well, whilst you may think you are this wonderful and good moral person, that is not necessarily true.

That is right, however, I can name you a good few people who claim to be Christians, Catholics even, and are everything but good and moral people. A persons religion doesn't say anything at all about character or moral.



2) Are you saying that teen pregnancy is wrong? I was a teen pregnancy and am very offended at that suggestion. Are you saying that my parents were wrong because they had me whilst they were teenagers. Are you saying that I am wrong.



Hang on... are you ADVOCATING teen pregnancy now? Should we get all girls pregnant as soon as they turn 13? Or what exactly are you saying on a moral level here?

Okay, perhaps wrong was the incorrect word to use.

What I was getting offended at was that he was suggesting that it was bad, incorrect, morally wrong that I was a teenage pregnancy. I doubt you will understand what I am going on about but it's true what I am saying.

We were having this discussion in History once and one of the girls said that it was wrong to have teenage pregnancies. As a teenage pregnancy myself, I was offended and so was another person in my class, who was also a teenage pregnancy.

You probably weren't a teenage pregnancy and so will not know.

Nope, but guess what, I'm bisexual, and you say I'm wrong, and so is me marrying my boyfriend.

Baseless claims of religion claiming ownership of marriage hold about as much strength as Apple computers claiming ownership of Microsoft.

Very well said.

Hang on... are you ADVOCATING teen pregnancy now? Should we get all girls pregnant as soon as they turn 13? Or what exactly are you saying on a moral level here?

Well, I'm going to be controversial and say that teenage pregnancies aren't this evil that society seems to believe they are. Read into that what you want.

Nope, but guess what, I'm bisexual, and you say I'm wrong, and so is me marrying my boyfriend.
That is wrong. I have never said, ever in my life, that bisexuals are wrong.

I will say, however, that marrying your boyfriend, if you are a male, is wrong.

But, understand me, I do not believe that bisexuals are wrong and I have never said that in my life, that is a promise.

That is wrong. I have never said, ever in my life, that bisexuals are wrong.

I will say, however, that marrying your boyfriend, if you are a male, is wrong.

But, understand me, I do not believe that bisexuals are wrong and I have never said that in my life, that is a promise.

How can u condem two men getting married when you see nothing wrong with bisexuality?

That is wrong. I have never said, ever in my life, that bisexuals are wrong.

I will say, however, that marrying your boyfriend, if you are a male, is wrong.

But, understand me, I do not believe that bisexuals are wrong and I have never said that in my life, that is a promise.

And I've never said that being a teen pregnancy is wrong either. :)
'sides, it's not like *you* had anything to say about it.

But then, what's the difference between you saying my marriage is wrong and your teen pregnancy is wrong?

Well, I'm going to be controversial and say that teenage pregnancies aren't this evil that society seems to believe they are. Read into that what you want.

Well, a girl getting pregnant at, say, 14, being stuck with a baby while she herself is little more than a kid, missing out on education and having to settle for low-income job to see the kid through school is a good thing?

I've had two friends of mine getting pregant one with 16 the other with 19, it really did mess up their lives. And their kids in the bargain.

How can u condem two men getting married when you see nothing wrong with bisexuality?

Gay marriage is wrong.

I don't really want to explain this because it gets too complicated and too long and is probably hypocritical and heretical. But, that is the conclusion that I have come to and that is what I believe.

Well, a girl getting pregnant at, say, 14, being stuck with a baby while she herself is little more than a kid, missing out on education and having to settle for low-income job to see the kid through school is a good thing?

I've had two friends of mine getting pregant one with 16 the other with 19, it really did mess up their lives. And their kids in the bargain.

Well, just because you have a child whilst you are a teenager does not mean that you will be poor for all of your life.

You are becoming what you have been criticising - prejudiced. The fact that you would give more support to a gay couple in their quest to get married then to a teenage girl who is pregnant disgusts me.

Well, just because you have a child whilst you are a teenager does not mean that you will be poor for all of your life.

You are becoming what you have been criticising - prejudiced. The fact that you would give more support to a gay couple in their quest to get married then to a teenage girl who is pregnant disgusts me.

Hold it right there!

I never said that I wouldn't give all the support I can to a teenage girl that became pregnant. She's in one hell of a situation and nothing I can ever do will be enough. I helped both of those friends I mentioned as much as I could at the time.
But I will try my best by providing information on contraception to teenagers and answering questions, assisting in every way I can to PREVENT teenage pregnancies. Because, to be honest, I don't believe there's one 14-year-old out there who took the conscious desicion that now would be the time to get a child, right in the middle of high school.
Teenage pregnancies are accidents. Gay marriages are human rights.

God should be because we should all make that choice to make God the most important thing in our lives.

Otherwise, it will only harm us in the end.

No, it wont harm us. What is it to you if i go to hell? In your belief-system God himself entitled me to that choice. He wants me to worship him, but i dont have to, with the threat of burning in hell once my mortal life ends hnging over my head. Well, thats blackmail and i dont want to look up to a superiour being for moral guidance that uses extortion schemes. You can go to heaven, fine by me, if they take in people immersed in pride as deep as you.

Well, just because you have a child whilst you are a teenager does not mean that you will be poor for all of your life.

You are becoming what you have been criticising - prejudiced. The fact that you would give more support to a gay couple in their quest to get married then to a teenage girl who is pregnant disgusts me.

Amazingly enough, I feel the same way about you.

Amazingly enough, I feel the same way about you.

What, the fact that I would give more support to a teenage parent than a gay couple?

How can that be? do you not love children? Children are the most important thing in the world. More important than anything.

What, the fact that I would give more support to a teenage parent than a gay couple?

How can that be? do you not love children? Children are the most important thing in the world. More important than anything.

Sure, 6.5 billion isn't enough yet :rolleyes:

No, honestly, I think it is vital to assist the mothers in any way possible, showing them all the options availabel, and, above all, teaching them how to prevent pregnancy in the first place. It's incredible how many teenagers don't know how to use a condom...

What, the fact that I would give more support to a teenage parent than a gay couple?

How can that be? do you not love children? Children are the most important thing in the world. More important than anything.

Sorry, I should have been more specific.

The fact that you're trying to put teen pregnancies forward as perfectly fine, while opposing two loving men/women to be married in a way that has absolutely nothing to do with your church disgusts me.

Sure, 6.5 billion isn't enough yet :rolleyes:

No, honestly, I think it is vital to assist the mothers in any way possible, showing them all the options availabel, and, above all, teaching them how to prevent pregnancy in the first place. It's incredible how many teenagers don't know how to use a condom...

Well, yes we should give them more sexual education but not because teenage pregnancies are considered bad.

Even if we pretend it is to keep them healthy, which of course it also is, we should give out the message that we are improving sex education to stop teenage pregnancies.

I know that's weird but I feel like it would be telling me and all other teenage pregnancies that we were wrong and our parents are bad for having children whilst still teenagers - that society considers us deviants.

I know that's weird but I feel like it would be telling me and all other teenage pregnancies that we were wrong and our parents are bad for having children whilst still teenagers - that society considers us deviants.
I hope they were married...

I hope they were married...

No, apparently I'm a bastard as well because my parents did not marry until I was 5.

Dont you guys get it? Gay marriage is wrong, its evil, its a sin. Marriage is, and has been, a bond between a man and a woman. I dont see any reason to change it because of a bunch of homos and some liberals that are backing them. Marriage is a relationship from God which leads to family. Can gay people have kids? No. If God wanted gay people to get married he would have given them a way to concieve. And as for Gay adoption. I would love to see a world wide poll where the options would be. "If you had a choice, would you allow yourself to be adopted by same sex couples". I'm sure the answers would be "NO" in the 90 percentile. Its not a traditional family. Its not what is supposed to happen. I know this is gonna sound weird. But gay parents cant breast feed you. Isnt that whats supposed to happen in nature. Just another point that its not NATURAL, its EVIL, its a SIN, and we should BAN it.......Just some thoughts on the subject.........(RAINBOW FLAG) :mp5:

Well, yes we should give them more sexual education but not because teenage pregnancies are considered bad.

Even if we pretend it is to keep them healthy, which of course it also is, we should give out the message that we are improving sex education to stop teenage pregnancies.

I know that's weird but I feel like it would be telling me and all other teenage pregnancies that we were wrong and our parents are bad for having children whilst still teenagers - that society considers us deviants.


Naw, never had that feeling. My mom was 19, married, and it definitely was the worst desicion of her lifetime. But hey, that wasn't my fault, was it? I was the only participant in that play that wasn't asked if she wanted to patrticipate.

But I think we are of topic here... actually, that's another good thing about being homosexual. No teenage pregnancies...

Dont you guys get it? Gay marriage is wrong, its evil, its a sin. Marriage is, and has been, a bond between a man and a woman. I dont see any reason to change it because of a bunch of homos and some liberals that are backing them. Marriage is a relationship from God which leads to family. Can gay people have kids? No. If God wanted gay people to get married he would have given them a way to concieve. And as for Gay adoption. I would love to see a world wide poll where the options would be. "If you had a choice, would you allow yourself to be adopted by same sex couples". I'm sure the answers would be "NO" in the 90 percentile. Its not a traditional family. Its not what is supposed to happen. I know this is gonna sound weird. But gay parents cant breast feed you. Isnt that whats supposed to happen in nature. Just another point that its not NATURAL, its EVIL, its a SIN, and we should BAN it.......Just some thoughts on the subject.........(RAINBOW FLAG) :mp5:


You're kidding, right?

Naw, never had that feeling. My mom was 19, married, and it definitely was the worst desicion of her lifetime. But hey, that wasn't my fault, was it? I was the only participant in that play that wasn't asked if she wanted to patrticipate.

Why have you only said now that you are a teenage pregnancy? We've ben discussing this for a while and only now you decide to say.

I'm sorry but I don't believe that you are a teenage pregnancy.

No, apparently I'm a bastard as well because my parents did not marry until I was 5.
Does that not conflict strongly with your beliefs? I mean, today the RCC is more mellow on those born out of wedlock, but it still means you are born out of sin.

Does that not conflict strongly with your beliefs? I mean, today the RCC is more mellow on those born out of wedlock, but it still means you are born out of sin.

Well, my parents aren't religious at all. And I can help the fact of when I was born.

Why have you only said now that you are a teenage pregnancy? We've ben discussing this for a while and only now you decide to say.

I'm sorry but I don't believe that you are a teenage pregnancy.

I'm 30, my mother is 49, you figure it out.
Why should I have said that? My mom was out of school and married, it was a conscious desicion on her part, though a really really bad one.
When you started about teenage pregnancies, I was thinking along the lines of still-at-school, without-education, unmarried teenagers. That kind. I never felt any discrimination from society about my mother's age...

I'm 30, my mother is 49, you figure it out.
Why should I have said that? My mom was out of school and married, it was a conscious desicion on her part, though a really really bad one.
When you started about teenage pregnancies, I was thinking along the lines of still-at-school, without-education, unmarried teenagers. That kind. I never felt any discrimination from society about my mother's age...

Well, she was still a teenager regardless, if you are telling the truth.

I'm sorry there is no important in carrying this on because I just don't trust what you say.

But gay parents cant breast feed you.
Wow, more fallacies than you can shake a stick at. Im just going for this one. Well, lesbians are gay too, right? And they can bear children, right? And get pregnant via different means, like having sex with a man (even if they dont like it, others do worse for less) or artificial insemination, right? Pregnant women produce milk at the end of term, right? This continues for a while, depending on how long the child needs it, if the mother is healthy, right?
Well, if you checked "right" everytime that means you are "wrong". If not you are either uneducated or close your eyes to facts in order to stick to your beliefs.
Besides, what about heterosexual couples where the woman cant breastfeed for whatever reason? Are they forbidden to marry?

Wow, more fallacies than you can shake a stick at. Im just going for this one. Well, lesbians are gay too, right? And they can bear children, right? And get pregnant via different means, like having sex with a man (even if they dont like it, others do worse for less) or artificial insemination, right? Pregnant women produce milk at the end of term, right? This continues for a while, depending on how long the child needs it, if the mother is healthy, right?
Well, if you checked "right" everytime that means you are "wrong". If not you are either uneducated or close your eyes to facts in order to stick to your beliefs.
Besides, what about heterosexual couples where the woman cant breastfeed for whatever reason? Are they forbidden to marry?

I agree, not being able to breastfeed is not a reason to not be allowed to get married.

I know that's weird but I feel like it would be telling me and all other teenage pregnancies that we were wrong and our parents are bad for having children whilst still teenagers - that society considers us deviants.

You mean sorta like how Christians want society to treat homosexuals?

EDIT: Damned tags.

You mean sorta like how Christians want society to treat homosexuals?

EDIT: Damned tags.

Well, doesn't mean that all of us do. And Christians should forgive them anyway.

Well, she was still a teenager regardless, if you are telling the truth.

I'm sorry there is no important in carrying this on because I just don't trust what you say.

Oh, nice way of calling me a liar.... *lol

Honestly, it doesn't matter anyway, because I still didn't experience the same as you obviously did. Maybe that's just one of the many differences between Europe and the USA...

I agree, not being able to breastfeed is not a reason to not be allowed to get married.

Tin ice, really thin. So, women who suffered from breast cancer chouldn't be allowed to marry either?

Oh, nice way of calling me a liar.... *lol

Honestly, it doesn't matter anyway, because I still didn't experience the same as you obviously did. Maybe that's just one of the many differences between Europe and the USA...

Well, I'm not American and from what I can see you are not American either.

Well, I'm not American and from what I can see you are not American either.

German, living in Ireland.

Well, doesn't mean that all of us do. And Christians should forgive them anyway.
Or maybe Christians who feel so much moral superiority oozing out of their pores that they feel they can 'forgive' people for anything just need to dodder back off to Jerusalem, hm?

Or maybe Christians who feel so much moral superiority oozing out of their pores that they feel they can 'forgive' people for anything just need to dodder back off to Jerusalem, hm?

No, just doing as Jesus told us.

Forgiveness, in my opinion, is one of the most important Christian ideas.

No, just doing as Jesus told us.

Forgiveness, in my opinion, is one of the most important Christian ideas.
And I am one of the most forgiving people that I know. Pardon if it seems vain as I'm just repeating verbatim what I've been old, but I 'would be the best Christian ever, if only (I) believed in Jesus.' I've been told that by about half the population of the congregations of three different denominations. So. I'm hardly one to be lecturing on being a good person, at least in the opinion of 450 Christians. :P

EDIT: So... I forgive you for your vanity and arrogance.

And I am one of the most forgiving people that I know. Pardon if it seems vain as I'm just repeating verbatim what I've been old, but I 'would be the best Christian ever, if only (I) believed in Jesus.' I've been told that by about half the population of the congregations of three different denominations. So. I'm hardly one to be lecturing on being a good person, at least in the opinion of 450 Christians. :P

Huh, what has this got to do with what I am going about?

I never said you wouldn't be a good Christian.

Didn't Canada pass the bill a few days ago?
We did, and the courts got to it two years ago. So technically we've had gay marriage for ages.

We did, and the courts got to it two years ago. So technically we've had gay marriage for ages.

Sadly, it's not considered 'countrywide', even when over 60% of the nation considers it legal. :P

Tin ice, really thin. So, women who suffered from breast cancer chouldn't be allowed to marry either?
You got it wrong. Catholic Europe, you and me agree that this is no grounds to disallow marriage.

You got it wrong. Catholic Europe, you and me agree that this is no grounds to disallow marriage.

Any sane person would agree as well. That's like telling a man with an exceptionally short penis that he can't get married because he can't impregnate a woman.

More like they decided to embrace sin.

Sin?? What is sin?? What I like about my gay-marriage embracing country is that we actually have a seperation between church and state. Which is quite decent considering that a) not all people are christians, in fact, less than 30% of the people in my home-town (well... home city) are actually christian. b) there are many athiests in the world and they have rights too.

With this in mind, we cannot go to the Bible for moral code, becasue many Canadians don't accept that as the word of "God" So we have to start a new moral code based on the ideas of the MAJORITY OR CANADIAN CITIZENS.

And believe it or not, the majority of Canadians wanted gays to marry. That's democracy: case closed.

You got it wrong. Catholic Europe, you and me agree that this is no grounds to disallow marriage.

Yeah, we all agree lol!

You got it wrong. Catholic Europe, you and me agree that this is no grounds to disallow marriage.

Does Catholic Europe know that ? :D

Yeah, we all agree lol!

Yeah! *Cookies for all

Whew! Finally caught up in the thread... Time to sleep... But first... To make this relevant...

Uhmm...

"Gay marriage is alright, as long as you don't force a church to do the wedding if it doesn't want to... The End"

Paging Catholic Europe....

....So are you still composing your response? :confused:

Here's some of what you responded to OTHER people, while apparently ignoring my post for the second time, after snapping at me for commenting on that fact:

Well, my parents aren't religious at all. And I can help the fact of when I was born.
But according to you, that doesn't change the fact that it's still a sin, and they should live by God's rules just like the rest of are "supposed" to.

No, just doing as Jesus told us.

Forgiveness, in my opinion, is one of the most important Christian ideas.
Then FORGIVE them already, and let them get on with their lives; the way they want to live them!

Then FORGIVE them already, and let them get on with their lives; the way they want to live them!

Well, I do forgive gay people. And I will forgive people who think that gay marriage is okay, I wil forgive them for thinking that. But that doesn't mean that we should give them more opportunity to sin.

Well, I do forgive gay people. And I will forgive people who think that gay marriage is okay, I wil forgive them for thinking that. But that doesn't mean that we should give them more opportunity to sin.

Do you believe we should disallow everything that is being prohibited by the ten commandments? (Just to go a little more basic than the "gays in the bible" business)

Do you believe we should disallow everything that is being prohibited by the ten commandments? (Just to go a little more basic than the "gays in the bible" business)

I'm not sure what you mean. Can you give me some examples of what you are saying?

I'm not sure what you mean. Can you give me some examples of what you are saying?

What I mean is, for example, the first commandment "Thou shalt have no other gods before me"

If you are saying we shouldn't give people the opportunity to "sin", does that mean you are going to banish all religions apart from Christianity?

Or about the second commandment "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth"...
Would you ban photography and outlaw movie theaters? Close down museums and tear down statues and monuments?

That's just to name a few examples where you could say that law gives the people the opportunity to sin