NationStates Jolt Archive

Who really ARE the victims of the group?

The victims are average working people. Doesn't matter what race, nationality, religion, etc. They're exploited by the wealthy (not always but very often), They're attacked by extremists. They're looked down upon by over-educated idiots both left and right wing. And they have to do the work and fight the wars that drive the world foreward.

The victims are average working people. Doesn't matter what race, nationality, religion, etc. They're exploited by the wealthy (not always but very often), They're attacked by extremists. They're looked down upon by over-educated idiots both left and right wing. And they have to do the work and fight the wars that drive the world foreward.
Seconded!

The victims are average working people. Doesn't matter what race, nationality, religion, etc. They're exploited by the wealthy (not always but very often), They're attacked by extremists. They're looked down upon by over-educated idiots both left and right wing. And they have to do the work and fight the wars that drive the world foreward.

Thirded!

Fourth....-ed!

Harry Potter fans

Christians. Almost everyone who isn’t one seems to have an instinctive distaste for us, but that is what the Bible says it will be like, so whatever.

The victims are average working people. Doesn't matter what race, nationality, religion, etc. They're exploited by the wealthy (not always but very often), They're attacked by extremists. They're looked down upon by over-educated idiots both left and right wing. And they have to do the work and fight the wars that drive the world foreward.
I love having you back. This kind of commie talk always make me hot... :D

Christians. Almost everyone who isn’t one seems to have an instinctive distaste for us, but that is what the Bible says it will be like, so whatever.

I only dislike the Christians who can't keep to themselves... The ones who try to convert people and act like asses.

The conservatives!

How many times does Ann Culture get pie/other stuff thrown in her face for voicing her views, compared to any other liberal? ;)

The victims are average working people. Doesn't matter what race, nationality, religion, etc. They're exploited by the wealthy (not always but very often), They're attacked by extremists. They're looked down upon by over-educated idiots both left and right wing. And they have to do the work and fight the wars that drive the world foreward.

Horse shit, it's their own fault for not fighting for more.

I love having you back. This kind of commie talk always make me hot... :D
Donald Rumsfeld and Dick cheney holding each other tight.

Consider your mood ruined. :D


I whatever number is relevant to what DC said.

The victims are average working people. Doesn't matter what race, nationality, religion, etc. They're exploited by the wealthy (not always but very often), They're attacked by extremists. They're looked down upon by over-educated idiots both left and right wing. And they have to do the work and fight the wars that drive the world foreward.

Fifthed!

Horse shit, it's their own fault for not fighting for more.

Ah, like how it's poor people's fault for being so poor?

:rolleyes:

Man she has to be the worst example of a victim in the world! Hahaha!

Anyway, what's with all this victimized christianity? If anythong, I would say you lot ate the ones pursecuting people. What gives?

The conservatives!

How many times does Ann Culture get a pie thrown in her face for voicing her views, compared to any other liberal? ;)
She got yummy pie...Jane Fonda got stinky tabacco spit. I'd take the pie, personally!

Christians. Almost everyone who isn’t one seems to have an instinctive distaste for us, but that is what the Bible says it will be like, so whatever.
Assuming you're American, isn't it kind of hard to play the victim when you're in the majority, you've got your president in office, and your issues drive the much of the political and social debate in this country? The Christians who claim they are victimized in the USA use "evidence" like the elimination of prayer in the public schools and the removal of their religious monuments from court houses and other public buildings. It's like saying you're being persecuted because you can't force others to be like you against their will.

Donald Rumsfeld and Dick cheney holding each other tight.

Consider your mood ruined. :D
Na, 'cuz these people are only names to me. I don't see their mugs often enough to be able to pick them out of a lineup. I'll just pretend they are a hot gay couple newly married in Canada:)

I love having you back. This kind of commie talk always make me hot... :D
Yeah, ladies dig commies.

Horse shit, it's their own fault for not fighting for more.
Are you talking about armed revolution? It's been tried in the Soviet Union, China, Cuba, and other places. Excuse me for not rejoicing when the whip that keeps the people in line is handed to another form of despot.

Yeah, ladies dig commies.
Especially drunk ones. They're easier to take advantage of. (some would call that rape I guess...which means I must be a serial rapist and rape victim:))

Na, 'cuz these people are only names to me. I don't see their mugs often enough to be able to pick them out of a lineup. I'll just pretend they are a hot gay couple newly married in Canada:)


*shakes (http://www.jwz.org/images/mdf281667.jpg) fist (http://www.uncoveror.com/madcheney.jpg)*

I'll get you next time. Ok... apologies to thread starter for the spam-lite. No more, I promises.

Man she has to be the worst example of a victim in the world! Hahaha!

Anyway, what's with all this victimized christianity? If anythong, I would say you lot ate the ones pursecuting people. What gives?
CANNIBALS!

*shakes (http://www.jwz.org/images/mdf281667.jpg) fist (http://www.uncoveror.com/madcheney.jpg)*

I'll get you next time. Ok... apologies to thread starter for the spam-lite. No more, I promises.
I welcome comedy :p

*shakes (http://www.jwz.org/images/mdf281667.jpg) fist (http://www.uncoveror.com/madcheney.jpg)*


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!! MY EYES!!!!

Anyone's a victim, no matter what religion / ethnicity / political opinion / moral values.

Some are victims of persecution. Others are victims of their own egoism or narrow-mindedness. Nevertheless we are all humans.

As usual, truth and good manners got a beating.

The victims are average working people. Doesn't matter what race, nationality, religion, etc. They're exploited by the wealthy (not always but very often), They're attacked by extremists. They're looked down upon by over-educated idiots both left and right wing. And they have to do the work and fight the wars that drive the world foreward.

...while at the same time enjoying the benefits and amenities made possible by said rich people. It's not 'exploitation' when you get something out of it.

"Nice Guys" (TM) got the bummest deal. We didn't even make it into the damn poll. :D

I only dislike the Christians who can't keep to themselves... The ones who try to convert people and act like asses.



And according to Christ and Paul, that would be.....all of us :eek:

Oh well, bring on the persecution then :D

I haven't voted in my own poll :p

Christians. Almost everyone who isn’t one seems to have an instinctive distaste for us, but that is what the Bible says it will be like, so whatever.
Christians are victims like white supremacists were victims.

Llama's. Thou shalt not use Llama's name in vain.

...while at the same time enjoying the benefits and amenities made possible by said rich people. It's not 'exploitation' when you get something out of it.
It is exploitation when the CEO makes as much money as 100 of his workers or more, raids their pension fund and lays thousands off because the company needs to save some cash. It's exploitation when a company builds a factory, pollutes the local land, then closes the factory to move it somewhere they can hire cheaper labor with no regard to the problems caused in the community.

The conservatives!

How many times does Ann Culture get pie/other stuff thrown in her face for voicing her views, compared to any other liberal? ;)



I would rather be pied than not. <3 chocolate pie :D

Trekkies. And people who like furbys.

It is exploitation when the CEO makes as much money as 100 of his workers or more, raids their pension fund and lays thousands off because the company needs to save some cash. It's exploitation when a company builds a factory, pollutes the local land, then closes the factory to move it somewhere they can hire cheaper labor with no regard to the problems caused in the community.

People do that? Like who?

People do that? Like who?

...

People do that? Like who?
Every big company
Shit even teh AIRLINES who are becoming so broke they are asking the government for assistance are paying their heads of management asinine amounts of money and severance packages more than the common worker makes in a few years.

People do that? Like who?
How about US airways. Most bloated management of all the airlines, yet they forced their flight attendants and mechanics to take huge pay cuts while management only really lost about 1% of their pay. The flight attendants took over 20% pay cuts BTW.

Maybe we can look at GM. CEO's pay is worth millions. He's not putting the company in the black. Does he get punished? No! He just lays off a huge chunk of the remaining US employees.

The gap between the pay of upper management and the common factory worker that they employ has grown significantly since the '50s. Isn't it obscene when the CEO, an employee of a publicly traded company, can earn more than 100 times what another employee of the same company makes?

Christians. Almost everyone who isn’t one seems to have an instinctive distaste for us, but that is what the Bible says it will be like, so whatever.

I say Child Molesters. Everyone hates child molesters. Even the serial killers think that the child molesters are bad news. Even when they've paid their debt to society they still have to sign up for legalized discrimination under Meagan's Law. There may be a lot of anger directed at Christians, but just try walking a mile in the shoes of a child molester and then see how it seems that the world is your oyster.

They can't even watch Star Wars without getting arrested.Click Here for Story. (http://www.sltrib.com/nationworld/ci_2832075) [/sarcasm]

...while at the same time enjoying the benefits and amenities made possible by said rich people. It's not 'exploitation' when you get something out of it.
Yes. The working classes had nothing to do with making those benefits and amenities possible. They didn't build the infrastructure, or pay the taxes to keep these things going or anything...

...think less 'exploitation' and more ' parasitic symbiosis' with some aspects of mutualism.

And according to Christ and Paul, that would be.....all of us :eek:

Oh well, bring on the persecution then :D

Yep. :D

John 15:18Jesus speaking to his followers:
“If the world hates you , keep in mind that it hated me first.”

People seem to have an instinctive revulsion against Christians. They belong to the world we belong to the Kingdom of God. Therefore, they are opposed to us, as God’s law is contrary to the world’s law.

Yep. :D

John 15:18Jesus speaking to his followers:
“If the world hates you , keep in mind that it hated me first.”

People seem to have an instinctive revulsion against Christians. They belong to the world we belong to the Kingdom of God. Therefore, they are opposed to us, as God’s law is contrary to the world’s law.
I suppose that revulsion you speak of has nothing to do with the fact that many Christians want to use the government to impose their religion and religious law on others. That can't have anything to do with it.

Please explain how you can consider Christians to be victims in any first world country. I'm curious to see exactly how you're being discriminated against.

People seem to have an instinctive revulsion against Christians. They belong to the world we belong to the Kingdom of God. Therefore, they are opposed to us, as God’s law is contrary to the world’s law.
hmm, why would people have an instinctive revulsion to Christians.. oh i know! because of all the superiority, persecuted, elitist bullshit people like YOU throw around. The zealots ruin it for everyone. All the obsessed christians sit around telling people how to live because "CHRISTIANS ARE RIGHT" then claimnig persecution when people tell them to blow it out their ear, all the while not living up to their own fucknig standards and the standards set forth in the Bible. Hypocrites.

Ihatevacations']hmm, why would people have an instinctive revulsion to Christians.. oh i know! because of all the superiority, persecuted, elitist bullshit people like YOU throw around.

If I were you I wouldn’t call anyone an elitist.

The zealots ruin it for everyone. All the obsessed christians sit around telling people how to live because "CHRISTIANS ARE RIGHT" then claimnig persecution when people tell them to blow it out their ear, all the while not living up to their own fucknig standards and the standards set forth in the Bible. Hypocrites.

We share the Gospel because we were commanded by God to, and we want others to be saved. No one is perfect but Jesus Christ, and no true Christian would claim otherwise. Christians are not perfect, simply forgiven.

If I were you I wouldn’t call anyone an elitist.



We share the Gospel because we were commanded by God to, and we want others to be saved. No one is perfect but Jesus Christ, and no true Christian would claim otherwise. Christians are not perfect, simply forgiven.
Look at it this way. I'm an atheist. What if I felt commanded to try to convince you and your family that there is no god? What if I went around saying stuff like "Atheists aren't perfect, just logical."? How would you feel about me?

If I were you I wouldn’t call anyone an elitist.
Hypocrite



We share the Gospel because we were commanded by God to, and we want others to be saved. No one is perfect but Jesus Christ, and no true Christian would claim otherwise. Christians are not perfect, simply forgiven.
And Christ if you are spurned to turn away, wipe the dust off your feet and leave. You can't even follow your own religion properly yet you push it and your own beliefs on other people like you are the fucking chosen people and you have a tape of God saying it himself. Being forgiven does not give you the right yo be an elitist ass claiming persecution whenever you are told you can't do whatever you want.

Ihatevacations']Hypocrite



And Christ if you are spurned to turn away, wipe the dust off your feet and leave. You can't even follow your own religion properly yet you push it and your own beliefs on other people like you are the fucking chosen people and you have a tape of God saying it himself. Being forgiven does not give you the right yo be an elitist ass claiming persecution whenever you are told you can't do whatever you want.



How wonderful when an atheist uses the words of Christ out of context to justify a point he's completely wrong about anyway :rolleyes: We're here to preach and convert. Don't like it? Feed us to lions like your predecessors did, but, until then, we're going to do what Christ and his apostles commanded.

How wonderful when an atheist uses the words of Christ out of context to justify a point he's completely wrong about anyway :rolleyes: We're here to preach and convert. Don't like it? Feed us to lions like your predecessors did, but, until then, we're going to do what Christ and his apostles commanded.
I'm still waiting for a christian to tell me how you're being discriminated against.

Oh, by the way, my love for my fellow man compells me to let you know that your religion is a waste of your effort on needless superstition and all you really need to do is do good works and be a decent person. It's fun to be preached at, isn't it?

I'm still waiting for a christian to tell me how you're being discriminated against.

Oh, by the way, my love for my fellow man compells me to let you know that your religion is a waste of your effort on needless superstition and all you really need to do is do good works and be a decent person. It's fun to be preached at, isn't it?




And my love for my fellow man compells me to tell you that you're wrong, and your disapproval of my religion is at your own eternal peril. :)

How wonderful when an atheist uses the words of Christ out of context to justify a point he's completely wrong about anyway :rolleyes:
YOu are saying God wants you to spread the good word, yeah, ok, but you are gonig to ignore the words of Christ? Arn't you CHRISTIANS, you know followers of CHRIST? Out of context? ok, lets play the game of "Context (tm)"


5"Whenever you enter a home, give it your blessing. 6If those who live there are worthy, the blessing will stand; if they are not, the blessing will return to you. 7When you enter a town, don't move around from home to home. Stay in one place, eating and drinking what they provide you. Don't hesitate to accept hospitality, because those who work deserve their pay.
8"If a town welcomes you, eat whatever is set before you 9and heal the sick. As you heal them, say, 'The Kingdom of God is near you now.' 10But if a town refuses to welcome you, go out into its streets and say, 11'We wipe the dust of your town from our feet as a public announcement of your doom. And don't forget the Kingdom of God is near!' 12The truth is, even wicked Sodom will be better off than such a town on the judgment day.
It isn't your job to push your religion on anyone, you are commanded to say "fine, you're going to hell" and then shtu the hell up about it

So you're oppressed because your people were in the minority almost two thousand years ago? You've been on top for a good 1300 years, give it a rest.

How about if I hear voices of the great Melon, who tells me to preach playing snooker in order to fully communicate with his wife, a giant turtle who will save me from an evil Ash tree? What if his word says that his way is correct, and all other are doomed to an eternity in my version of hell? If I gathered a group of followers and preached relentlessly even when you kindly asked me to go away, would that be excusable? I'm just trying to save your soul!

Ihatevacations']YOu are saying God wants you to spread the good word, yeah, ok, but you are gonig to ignore the words of Christ? Arn't you CHRISTIANS, you know followers of CHRIST? Out of context? ok, lets play the game of "Context (tm)"


It isn't your job to push your religion on anyone, you are commanded to say "fine, you're going to hell" and then shtu the hell up about it



I suggest you read 2 Timothy and Titus before citing that ;)

So you're oppressed because your people were in the minority almost two thousand years ago? You've been on top for a good 1300 years, give it a rest.

How about if I hear voices of the great Melon, who tells me to preach playing snooker in order to fully communicate with his wife, a giant turtle who will save me from an evil Ash tree? What if his word says that his way is correct, and all other are doomed to an eternity in my version of hell? If I gathered a group of followers and preached relentlessly even when you kindly asked me to go away, would that be excusable? I'm just trying to save your soul!


Provide historical accuracy, prophecies fulfilled, and miracles that were witnessed and then feel free to preach to me all you want hon ;)

I suggest you read 2 Timothy and Titus before citing that ;)
Oh, so you arn't Christians, you are Paulians, followers of teh teachings of Paul who "interpreted" the teachings of jesus

Provide historical accuracy, prophecies fulfilled, and miracles that were witnessed and then feel free to preach to me all you want hon ;)
You first. BTW, the prophecies have to be specific, and known before the event transpires. Also the miracles need to be verifiable.

And my love for my fellow man compells me to tell you that you're wrong, and your disapproval of my religion is at your own eternal peril. :)
You don't win converts with judgemental preaching and threats. You want to win some converts? Live a good and decent life. When people ask you how you can be good and decent then tell them about your religion. If your god did exist I'm sure he'd want you to spread his word in an effective manner, not in a manner that makes people dislike you and by extension your message as well.

The conservatives!

How many times does Ann Culture get pie/other stuff thrown in her face for voicing her views, compared to any other liberal? ;)

Not enough if you ask me *sarcasm*
:D I love seeing people getting a pie to the face

You don't win converts with judgemental preaching and threats. You want to win some converts? Live a good and decent life. When people ask you how you can be good and decent then tell them about your religion. If your god did exist I'm sure he'd want you to spread his word in an effective manner, not in a manner that makes people dislike you and by extension your message as well.



Actually, both manners are commanded so you are correct partially. We are to rebuke and admonish sinners, but we are also to let Christ's light shine through us in our lifestyle too.

Actually, both manners are commanded so you are correct partially. We are to rebuke and admonish sinners, but we are also to let Christ's light shine through us in our lifestyle too.
Your god's not so swift when it comes to marketing then.

BTW, still waiting to know how christians are being discriminated against.

Ihatevacations']Oh, so you arn't Christians, you are Paulians, followers of teh teachings of Paul who "interpreted" the teachings of jesus



To be a Christian, one must follow Christ as well as Paul, because Paul was given Christ's authority to spread His will. Those who reject Paul are not true Christians.

The victims are average working people. Doesn't matter what race, nationality, religion, etc. They're exploited by the wealthy (not always but very often), They're attacked by extremists. They're looked down upon by over-educated idiots both left and right wing. And they have to do the work and fight the wars that drive the world foreward.


Working men of all countries, unite!

Who are the culprits?

Hmm... just let me say this.

80% of Americans might be Christians, but.

75% of them look at porn anyway. That means, they might believe in God, but they believe in Jenna Jameson's breasts more.

You first. BTW, the prophecies have to be specific, and known before the event transpires. Also the miracles need to be verifiable.


But I like when someone claims it was part of the prophecy after the fact :D

Hmm... just let me say this.

80% of Americans might be Christians, but.

75% of them look at porn anyway. That means, they might believe in God, but they believe in Jenna Jameson's breasts more.
Maybe they beleive that admiring the female form and the reproductive act gives glory to the one who created them. Yeah, that's the ticket.

To be a Christian, one must follow Christ as well as Paul, because Paul was given Christ's authority to spread His will. Those who reject Paul are not true Christians.
Paul changed the message, he started doing his own thing and adding his own things to the teachings of Christ. So you follow the teachings of Paul when they contradict Christ's? Like the thing you JUST NOW DID. I quote CHRIST and you cited Paul to prove me wrong. Stupid Paulians.

The victims are average working people. Doesn't matter what race, nationality, religion, etc. They're exploited by the wealthy (not always but very often), They're attacked by extremists. They're looked down upon by over-educated idiots both left and right wing. And they have to do the work and fight the wars that drive the world foreward.


True as the backbone of any wealthy nation is your average worker.

Your god's not so swift when it comes to marketing then.

BTW, still waiting to know how christians are being discriminated against.



Why should I have to explain it? Read the New Testament and its commands; anything in it that is contrary to modern society shows we are being discriminated against. This government is not supposed to discriminate against any religion, but equality in a religiously plural nation is IMPOSSIBLE. The fact is, every religion has to make sacrifices in this system. Which is why the system should be changed, make a nation for each religion I say.

Why must everyone OR EVEN ANYONE be a victim?!? ARGH!!!!!!!!

Maybe they beleive that admiring the female form and the reproductive act gives glory to the one who created them. Yeah, that's the ticket.


I so have to remember this argument :D

Oh, by the way, my love for my fellow man compells me to let you know that your religion is a waste of your effort on needless superstition and all you really need to do is do good works and be a decent person. It's fun to be preached at, isn't it?

It is your right to say that, just as it is my right to share the Gospel.

You don't win converts with judgemental preaching and threats. You want to win some converts? Live a good and decent life. When people ask you how you can be good and decent then tell them about your religion. If your god did exist I'm sure he'd want you to spread his word in an effective manner, not in a manner that makes people dislike you and by extension your message as well.

And that is exactly what I try to do. You will never catch me calling something out as sinful, unless fellow Christians are doing it, and I know them personally. I volunteer my time and money to charity in an attempt to share the Gospel. You’d be amazed how many chances one gets to answer the question, “Why do you do all that stuff, if you don’t have to?” Responding with something like “Because Jesus loves everyone and because of him so do I.” fills my heart with no end of joy. It is at this point where I either get openly mocked, sarcastic glances even the dreaded O_o. But ever so rarely one is intrigued by what I have to say.

Ihatevacations]Hypocrite

No need to be hostile. Just some friendly advice. You have made some rather elitist remarks about your education in the past, and made claims that others are not informed enough to have an opinion because it disagrees with yours.

Why must everyone OR EVEN ANYONE be a victim?!? ARGH!!!!!!!!


So they can always have something to complain about to others. ;)

The tax payer.

Ihatevacations']Paul changed the message, he started doing his own thing and adding his own things to the teachings of Christ. So you follow the teachings of Paul when they contradict Christ's? Like the thing you JUST NOW DID. I quote CHRIST and you cited Paul to prove me wrong. Stupid Paulians.




Christ COMMANDED Paul to teach His will! Christ did not live long enough for his entire message to be spread! Christ brought the message, and told Paul to continue preaching His message for him! Paul does not contradict Christ! You take things out of context to MAKE it seem that way! Just because you WANT things less strict, doesn't mean they ARE! If you deny Paul then you deny Christ, no ifs, ands, or buts!

Read the New Testament and its commands; anything in it that is contrary to modern society shows we are being discriminated against.
LMFAO!!!

So because adultery isn't illegal Christians are discriminated against?
Christians are discriminated against because people are allowed to have other gods than teh Christian God?
Christians are discriminated against because stores don't close on Sundays?


I DARE some one tell me Christians don't have the biggest victim complex in the history of complexes.

Paul does not contradict Christ!
I quoted Christ and was contradicted by a quote of Paul. Paul doesn't do what now?


and made claims that others are not informed enough to have an opinion because it disagrees with yours.
I don't care if it disagrees with mine as long as it is educated instead of mindless party line yes-mania.

Why should I have to explain it? Read the New Testament and its commands; anything in it that is contrary to modern society shows we are being discriminated against. This government is not supposed to discriminate against any religion, but equality in a religiously plural nation is IMPOSSIBLE. The fact is, every religion has to make sacrifices in this system. Which is why the system should be changed, make a nation for each religion I say.
What? Are you saying that if the government doesn't enforce everything in the new testament you're being discriminated against? So then why can't muslims, buddhists, Jews, etc. claim the same thing? Isn't it more fair that the government takes no side in the religious dispute and allows people to worship, or not, as they see fit?

The US was built on the idea that government wouldn't establish an official religion. If you want a nation that is strictly Christian, move.

Ihatevacations']LMFAO!!!

So because adultery isn't illegal Christians are discriminated against?
Christians are discriminated against because people are allowed to have other gods than teh Christian God?
Christians are discriminated against because stores don't close on Sundays?


I DARE some one tell me Christians don't have the biggest victim complex in the history of complexes.


I quoted Christ and was contradicted by a quote of Paul. Paul doesn't do what now?


Hmm probably goes back to being fed to lions :D *falls over laughing*

Other: The Lesbian Midget Albino Inuit Double-Amputee Alcoholic Palestinien Libertartian Jewish Republican Porn-Star Tattooists. Clearly they have been oppressed to long by the Anarcho-Liberal Hetroseuxual Christian Pogo-Stick-Stuntperson Fee Newspaper Editors of San MArino. Death to the Opressors I say.

Christ COMMANDED Paul to teach His will! Christ did not live long enough for his entire message to be spread! Christ brought the message, and told Paul to continue preaching His message for him! Paul does not contradict Christ! You take things out of context to MAKE it seem that way! Just because you WANT things less strict, doesn't mean they ARE! If you deny Paul then you deny Christ, no ifs, ands, or buts!
How do you know? Were you there?

Ok for one it's only been since like 1500 that we've had superiority. Before then it was either Muslims or Pagan hordes of doom (mongols, germans, huns).

Either way, Fuck this love shit. I wish Paul or Jesus wouldv'e just been like "If someone gives you shit, bust a cap in their ass!" God, it wouldv'e made things so much easier...

(snip)

The US was built on the idea that government wouldn't establish an official religion. If you want a nation that is strictly Christian, move.


Might as well let them start a new nation as there is no such place as a strictly Christian nation. :D

Maybe they beleive that admiring the female form and the reproductive act gives glory to the one who created them. Yeah, that's the ticket.

No, I meant that real Christians are a minority. But that's besides the point. Anywho, I see the Leftist Majority here is making fun of them again. And I will leave, thus I will not reply to anything. Oh and I'm taking this to Moderation, major thread hi-jack this is...

Parthini']Ok for one it's only been since like 1500 that we've had superiority. Before then it was either Muslims or Pagan hordes of doom (mongols, germans, huns).

Either way, Fuck this love shit. I wish Paul or Jesus wouldv'e just been like "If someone gives you shit, bust a cap in their ass!" God, it wouldv'e made things so much easier...
So are you saying that Christianity is inherently flawed because of it's peacefull nature? In that case, how can it be the true religion? Maybe you've just argued yourself out of the Christian religion.

Oh, and probably the "little guy". Thing is they read the wrong stuff when they want economics. They should read Smith, not Marx.

Ihatevacations']LMFAO!!!

So because adultery isn't illegal Christians are discriminated against?
Christians are discriminated against because people are allowed to have other gods than teh Christian God?
Christians are discriminated against because stores don't close on Sundays?


I DARE some one tell me Christians don't have the biggest victim complex in the history of complexes.


I quoted Christ and was contradicted by a quote of Paul. Paul doesn't do what now?



As I said, you take that out of context! Did you ever bother to read the surrounding verses of "Judge not lest ye be judged"? It's a condemnation of hypocrisy! Am I homosexual? Do I commit the same sins as them? My sins are different, they have the duty to rebuke me for my sins and I have the duty to rebuke them for their sins! You want it to say something YOU want but it does NOT! Sorry for losing my temper, but this is THE most frustrating part of arguing Christ's authority EVER! You can not pick and choose which of Christ's teachings you want to hear! He tells us not to judge someone when we are guilty of the same sin, but he also gives Paul the authority to teach us. We MUST follow what Paul says, whether we hate doing so or not because Christ told us to.

Parthini']Ok for one it's only been since like 1500 that we've had superiority. Before then it was either Muslims or Pagan hordes of doom (mongols, germans, huns).

Either way, Fuck this love shit. I wish Paul or Jesus wouldv'e just been like "If someone gives you shit, bust a cap in their ass!" God, it wouldv'e made things so much easier...


Yes it would be much simpler and entertaining at least for a little while. :mp5:

Might as well let them start a new nation as there is no such place as a strictly Christian nation. :D
Vatican city. It's gonna get mighty crowded in there.

So are you saying that Christianity is inherently flawed because of it's peacefull nature? In that case, how can it be the true religion? Maybe you've just argued yourself out of the Christian religion.

Sorta... I was saying how on a worldly basis it's fucked.

Vatican city. It's gonna get mighty crowded in there.

I almost forget about Vatican City. :headbang:

No, I meant that real Christians are a minority. But that's besides the point. Anywho, I see the Leftist Majority here is making fun of them again. And I will leave, thus I will not reply to anything. Oh and I'm taking this to Moderation, major thread hi-jack this is...
Sorry. Didn't mean to hijack. I just got carried away.

EDIT: Wait a minute, asking for examples of discrimination against Christians isn't hijacking. We're discussing who the victim is. I'm just asking Christians to back up their claim to victimhood. Not really a hijack, is it?

Sorry. Didn't mean to hijack. I just got carried away.


Is it really hijacking as everyone is discussing who are the victims?

Horse shit, it's their own fault for not fighting for more.

sort of... but i think that the hatred for the wealthy should be tempered by the fact that they provide the jobs that the working man has.

in America, if you don't like your job, you can always get another one... or become your own boss.

Oh, and BTW I'm a pretty hardcore Christian with both parents being Episcopal Priests. However, I follow the verse (I dunno where it is) saying how you should pray in your room, etc. Not in the streets like the hypocrites.

:gundge:

How do you know? Were you there?


....


Way to throw the entire premise of faith out the window :rolleyes:
All we can do is trust in Christ and his apostles, else how were we to know what was right? Christian means "Follower of Christ".

....


Way to throw the entire premise of faith out the window :rolleyes:
All we can do is trust in Christ and his apostles, else how were we to know what was right? Christian means "Follower of Christ".
Ok, so if a government doesn't base it's laws on your faith but lets you practice your faith without restriction, how can you claim discrimination? It's not discrimination to prevent you from forcing your faith upon others unless some other religion is allowed to do so.

Ok, so if a government doesn't base it's laws on your faith but lets you practice your faith without restriction, how can you claim discrimination? It's not discrimination to prevent you from forcing your faith upon others unless some other religion is allowed to do so.

They will always cry out discrimination until everything is exactly the way they want it to be.

Ok, so if a government doesn't base it's laws on your faith but lets you practice your faith without restriction, how can you claim discrimination? It's not discrimination to prevent you from forcing your faith upon others unless some other religion is allowed to do so.



If I were of a religion that stated I was to kill others and the government didn't allow that, then it would be discrimination because it's not letting me practice my faith without restriction. Yes, there are religions in the US that involve human sacrifice. My point? True religious plurality is an inherently flawed concept, as its enforcement would contradict its premise. Anyway, I've let my feathers get ruffled a bit too much from all the Paul/Christ-haters so I'm going to take a break and go see a movie or something....

If I were of a religion that stated I was to kill others and the government didn't allow that, then it would be discrimination because it's not letting me practice my faith without restriction. Yes, there are religions in the US that involve human sacrifice. My point? True religious plurality is an inherently flawed concept, as its enforcement would contradict its premise. Anyway, I've let my feathers get ruffled a bit too much from all the Paul/Christ-haters so I'm going to take a break and go see a movie or something....
I disagree. All religions would simply be playing by the same rules. They would all have the same freedoms and restrictions. That's fair. That's clearly not discrimination.

If I were of a religion that stated I was to kill others and the government didn't allow that, then it would be discrimination because it's not letting me practice my faith without restriction. Yes, there are religions in the US that involve human sacrifice. My point? True religious plurality is an inherently flawed concept, as its enforcement would contradict its premise. Anyway, I've let my feathers get ruffled a bit too much from all the Paul/Christ-haters so I'm going to take a break and go see a movie or something....


hmmm a pickle of a issue seeing as they would consider human sacrifice as homicide.

You can not pick and choose which of Christ's teachings you want to hear!
Great, don't do it.
Where di the jduge not lest ye be jduged? You arn't evne near the topic now. You lsot the battle so you are starting a skirmish? That is not a surrounding passage, hell it isn't even in the same book as what I quoted. and no, it wasn't out of context, I posted all relevant content. You are mad because I am forcing you to consider I am right

Assuming you're American, isn't it kind of hard to play the victim when you're in the majority, you've got your president in office, and your issues drive the much of the political and social debate in this country? The Christians who claim they are victimized in the USA use "evidence" like the elimination of prayer in the public schools and the removal of their religious monuments from court houses and other public buildings. It's like saying you're being persecuted because you can't force others to be like you against their will.


DC has the bestest rebuttals:P

i say in the end we are all vitcims. everything that we do to hurt others will affect us somehow, like a chain reaction. like a boss who fires someone (based on how they like them and not their skill) to "save the company money", but then gets fired due to lowered producitvity. then the boss's boss is like wow this is saving us money! and so there are more layoffs and eventually the big bos is like we have 4 thou ppl working for us right now, but if we move to thailand we can have 10 thou and still save money! and so the company "out-sources" and 4 thousand ppl are layed off. then the company's competitors see how well they have done so they out source too. then other companies see and are like wow that could work! then the government is like we cant afford this swell of unempolyment so they raise taxes (for the non wealthy of course) and use this excuse to cut funding for things the gov doesnt seem to like too much (like health care, social security, and edjumacation) to allocate funds to help address the rising unemployed pop, only the gov has tacked a clause or two o this plan that sends money to the ever-hungry defense fund. using this money they develop/buy a new kind of missle/tank/helicopter that needs "feild-testing". so they try to "save" the syrians from their "evil tyrant" (for which they still need more money so the national debt skyrockets once again), giving the contry's reconstruction plans to companies whose ceo's are peronal friends of the president and the oil to private companies. meanwhile the un-taken care of unemployed population decides to make the president listen to them by marching on washington. of course since they have no permit the national guard starts killing them,bringing national morale to an all time low, and causing many to swarm out of the US into places like canada(who because of this becomes the next superpower) which significantly lowers the amount of ppl who can go into the army . the army, already reduced significantly by an unanticipated defense from the syrians and the unexpected radio-activity left behind from their new weapons, needs more troops and a draft is instated, causing tons more to leave the US. this leaves all of the isanely rich ppl left in the US who are still concentrated on making a profit and so destroy any hope of the economy recovering. the UN/british seeing that america is in a weakened state declare that we can not treat the Syrians this way and attack the US. the US becomes the new ireland, and the rest of the world suffers from massive overpopulation and poverty. the poor Syrians are trapped in their irradiated wasteland while the UN decides who exactly should give them aid. the dregs of society who cannot make a living anywhere else move into the US and national opinon of it lowers. the whole world suffers and the US is destroyed because bill didnt like ted in marketing or nancy wouldn't f***k steve in corporate...

The victims are average working people. Doesn't matter what race, nationality, religion, etc. They're exploited by the wealthy (not always but very often), They're attacked by extremists. They're looked down upon by over-educated idiots both left and right wing. And they have to do the work and fight the wars that drive the world foreward.

Fithifed! They have nothing to lose but their chains! That reminds me of two quotes

"They say the Pharaohs built the pyramids Do you think one Pharaoh dropped one bead of sweat? We built the pyramids for the Pharaohs and we're building for them yet."
- - Anna Louise Strong

and

Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most -- that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least."
- Eugene Debs

The victim is the Proletarian. Period. Clearly, we commies are drawn to threads like these like moths to a candle...

Me because I have to listen to everyone whine about your silly so called oppression.

OH NOES THE LIBERALS ARE BEING OPPRESSED BY THE CORPORATE MEDIA!

OH NOES THE ATHEISTS ARE BEING OPPRESSED BY RADICAL FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIANS WHO CONVERT PEOPLE AT ANY CHANCE THEY CAN!

OH NOES WE CHRISTIANS ARE SO OPPRESSED EVEN THOUGH WE'VE BEEN IN CONTROL FOR OVER 1000 YEARS!

OH NOES WHITE PEOPLE ARE BEING OPPRESSED IN AMERICA, EVEN THOUGH WE CONTROL THE GOVERNMENT!

OH NOES THE WORKERS ARE BEING OPPRESSED BY CAPITALIST DOGS BECAUSE THEY AREN'T BEING PAID THE SAME AS A CEO!

CEOs ARE THE ANTICHRIST...because, because Marx said so!

It's useless drivel that Westerners think they're really being oppressed.

It's those Goddamn poor bastards in the North Andaman Islands.

I was only kidding in the other thread.

OH NOES THE WORKERS ARE BEING OPPRESSED BY CAPITALIST DOGS BECAUSE THEY AREN'T BEING PAID THE SAME AS A CEO!

CEOs ARE THE ANTICHRIST...because, because Marx said so!

It's useless drivel that Westerners think they're really being oppressed.


Who said I was talking about the Westerners?

Ever been to a third world sweatshop?

The victims are average working people. Doesn't matter what race, nationality, religion, etc. They're exploited by the wealthy (not always but very often), They're attacked by extremists. They're looked down upon by over-educated idiots both left and right wing. And they have to do the work and fight the wars that drive the world foreward.
I agree!

Conservatives (of the nationalist variety); they are attacked by the left and failed by their leaders.

Me because I have to listen to everyone whine about your silly so called oppression.

OH NOES THE LIBERALS ARE BEING OPPRESSED BY THE CORPORATE MEDIA!

OH NOES THE ATHEISTS ARE BEING OPPRESSED BY RADICAL FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIANS WHO CONVERT PEOPLE AT ANY CHANCE THEY CAN!

OH NOES WE CHRISTIANS ARE SO OPPRESSED EVEN THOUGH WE'VE BEEN IN CONTROL FOR OVER 1000 YEARS!

OH NOES WHITE PEOPLE ARE BEING OPPRESSED IN AMERICA, EVEN THOUGH WE CONTROL THE GOVERNMENT!

OH NOES THE WORKERS ARE BEING OPPRESSED BY CAPITALIST DOGS BECAUSE THEY AREN'T BEING PAID THE SAME AS A CEO!

CEOs ARE THE ANTICHRIST...because, because Marx said so!

It's useless drivel that Westerners think they're really being oppressed.Stop victimizing me with your heartless sarcasm.

Stop victimizing me with your heartless sarcasm.

k.

Who said I was talking about the Westerners?

Ever been to a third world sweatshop?

Have you?

Have you?
I've read about third world sweatshops and I've visited a couple here in the USA. Does any of that count?

We are all victims of those who cannot spell. :D

The victims are average working people. Doesn't matter what race, nationality, religion, etc. They're exploited by the wealthy (not always but very often), They're attacked by extremists. They're looked down upon by over-educated idiots both left and right wing. And they have to do the work and fight the wars that drive the world foreward.
Took the words right out of my mouth, very well said.

The victims are average working people. Doesn't matter what race, nationality, religion, etc. They're exploited by the wealthy (not always but very often), They're attacked by extremists. They're looked down upon by over-educated idiots both left and right wing. And they have to do the work and fight the wars that drive the world foreward.

BINGO!

The real victims in today's society are those who are hated for no good reason whatsoever. In my area, I'd say that's non-Christians, gays, African-Americans, and virtually every other minority imaginable.

I think that everyone at one time in their life or another has been or will be a victim of some injustice or violent act.

We are all victims of those who cannot spell. :D

Seconded!

The victims are average working people. Doesn't matter what race, nationality, religion, etc. They're exploited by the wealthy (not always but very often), They're attacked by extremists. They're looked down upon by over-educated idiots both left and right wing. And they have to do the work and fight the wars that drive the world foreward.
Average working people? That's just about the most hollow and meaningless cliche I've ever heard. Who are the average people, and what counts for working, pray tell?

Average working people? That's just about the most hollow and meaningless cliche I've ever heard. Who are the average people, and what counts for working, pray tell?
Ok, I'll define the term as I see it. It ranges from the working poor on up to small business owners who bust their ass to make their business successful. Not the people who can afford to make huge donations to political parties and candidates. Not the people who go to $5000 per plate political fundraisers. Not the upper management of huge companies (who are often rewarded even when their decisions hurt the company).

Ihatevacations']Great, don't do it.
Where di the jduge not lest ye be jduged? You arn't evne near the topic now. You lsot the battle so you are starting a skirmish? That is not a surrounding passage, hell it isn't even in the same book as what I quoted. and no, it wasn't out of context, I posted all relevant content. You are mad because I am forcing you to consider I am right




It is a condemnation of hypocrisy. If I am free of the sin, I have the right to rebuke the sinner. Simple as that. I can state this a bazillionmillionquatrilliondillion times and you dismiss it every time....

Ok, I'll define the term as I see it. It ranges from the working poor on up to small business owners who bust their ass to make their business successful. Not the people who can afford to make huge donations to political parties and candidates. Not the people who go to $5000 per plate political fundraisers. Not the upper management of huge companies (who are often rewarded even when their decisions hurt the company).
In other words, you don't count all of the above as "working people", no matter how much effort and sweat is invested into their work? Do you have any idea of the scale of work and responsibility that the upper management position of a huge company entails?

In other words, you don't count all of the above as "working people", no matter how much effort and sweat is invested into their work? Do you have any idea of the scale of work and responsibility that the upper management position of a huge company entails?
No, but I know what it pays. Enough to bankrupt the company

Ihatevacations']No, but I know what it pays. Enough to bankrupt the company
Ever wondered WHY the company is willing to pay them such high salaries? Could it be for a good reason?

The real victims in today's society are those who are hated for no good reason whatsoever. In my area, I'd say that's non-Christians, gays, African-Americans, and virtually every other minority imaginable.




:rolleyes:

In other words, you don't count all of the above as "working people", no matter how much effort and sweat is invested into their work? Do you have any idea of the scale of work and responsibility that the upper management position of a huge company entails?
Let them try mixing concrete in the hot sun and 100% humidity and then tell me about hard work. Let them lose their jobs AND their multi-million dollar golden parachutes when they make a bad decision and then tell me about the responsibility they face.

Blue collar jobs used to be the backbone of our economy. Guys who sacrificed sweat and blood built this nation. Now unions are weakened, jobs are exported to nations where the employees are a half step above slaves, and the fatcats still prosper. A CEO of a major corporation could drive his company into the ground. Decrease the stock value until the board decides he needs to be sacked, and still leave his post with millions of dollars worth of bonuses. It's obscene.

Ever wondered WHY the company is willing to pay them such high salaries? Could it be for a good reason?
Not likely. The salary gap between upper management and the blue collar guys has widened to the point that a CEO may earn hundreds of times what his employees do in a year. Nobody's worth that much.

You should all just be security guards like me. Low pay, but we spend most of our time reading :D

If I am free of the sin, I have the right to rebuke the sinner.
I think there's one too many definite articles there. Isn't it supposed to be:

If I am free of sin, I have the right to rebuke the sinner.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Guess who?

You should all just be security guards like me. Low pay, but we spend most of our time reading :D
I AM a security guard. But there ain't much time for reading for us guards in this neighborhood.

It is a condemnation of hypocrisy. If I am free of the sin, I have the right to rebuke the sinner. Simple as that. I can state this a bazillionmillionquatrilliondillion times and you dismiss it every time....
If you say you are without sin, you are a liar, and if you are a liar, you are a sinner. It's all in the bible.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
SINNER!

Blue collar jobs used to be the backbone of our economy. Guys who sacrificed sweat and blood built this nation. Now unions are weakened, jobs are exported to nations where the employees are a half step above slaves, and the fatcats still prosper. A CEO of a major corporation could drive his company into the ground. Decrease the stock value until the board decides he needs to be sacked, and still leave his post with millions of dollars worth of bonuses. It's obscene.
I agree completely. I think there should be some form of global minimum wage (relative to cost of living in each country, perhaps). But that's not going to happen. The only thing I can hope for is for the concepts of workers rights to reach the people of China and the Phillipines. That way they can attain the standard of living that the Left won decades ago in the west.

I agree completely. I think there should be some form of global minimum wage (relative to cost of living in each country, perhaps). But that's not going to happen. The only thing I can hope for is for the concepts of workers rights to reach the people of China and the Phillipines. That way they can attain the standard of living that the Left won decades ago in the west.
A global living wage would kick ass!

You should all just be security guards like me. Low pay, but we spend most of our time reading :D


My friend David used to be a security guard before he got beat up and almost killed because he wasn't allowed to have a gun. :(

My friend David used to be a security guard before he got beat up and almost killed because he wasn't allowed to have a gun. :(



I'm not either, luckily I have a pair of deadly scissors in my car!!!....(yeah, I'm as good as dead)

Let them try mixing concrete in the hot sun and 100% humidity and then tell me about hard work.
That's a classic bullshit argument, to which there exist a no less classic reply. Anyone can mix concrete- but how many can manage the finances of a multinational? How many can invent? How many can perform heart surgery and do countless other high-paid jobs?


Let them lose their jobs AND their multi-million dollar golden parachutes when they make a bad decision and then tell me about the responsibility they face.
With that kind of responsibility, if you take away the benefits no one will want the job. And then back to the caves we go...


Blue collar jobs used to be the backbone of our economy. Guys who sacrificed sweat and blood built this nation. Now unions are weakened, jobs are exported to nations where the employees are a half step above slaves, and the fatcats still prosper.
It's a great deal of improvement over what was there before. It is easy to build scarecrows once you rip your examples out of context. The truth, though, is that the poor are obviously getting richer, even though at a slower rate than the rich are getting richer.


A CEO of a major corporation could drive his company into the ground. Decrease the stock value until the board decides he needs to be sacked, and still leave his post with millions of dollars worth of bonuses. It's obscene.
It makes perfect sense. A CEO of a major corporation stakes his entire life on his job- decades of education and of earning his way up the chain of command. The job is gone- his entire life is gone with it. The guy mixing concrete can lose one job and find an equivalent one with ease.

The salary gap between upper management and the blue collar guys has widened to the point that a CEO may earn hundreds of times what his employees do in a year. Nobody's worth that much.
Plenty of people are worth that much. Hell, if he wasn't worth that much, the company wouldn't pay him that much. Unless we are talking about a government owned company, which is an abomination upon the earth.

DCD you mean people like me?

- For years I've been able to work in (mainly) construction. I haven't really had any problems finding work and my standards aren't high. I'm fairly good at the things I do, and I'm willing to do the bad jobs.
I work as little as possible. Usually no more than 2/3 of a year. I don't have a lot of expenses, and when I work, I more or less get up, work, come home, seelp, rinse-repeat. So I'm not one of the people who live off wellfare when I take my extended vacations. I'd consider myself a parasite and a hypocrite if I did.

But during the time I've been working, our pay have continued to rise. Not really a bad thing in itself, but it's continued to rise because the tax have continued to rise. This makes it hard for people to be able to afford employing me, unless they're forced to. In fact, the last 2 years I haven't worked for any individuals. At least not legally. That should give some indication of how much money our tax system looses simply because private people can't afford to hire people like me legally.

Now add to this the new EU expansion. So far, my government have been unvilling to effectively stop Polish workers from comming here and work for 1/6th of the legal minimum. The unions in my sector haven't done shit either. And no. People - everyone - haven't for one second stopped shouting about what's going on.

So what are my prospects? In a year or two I'll have to find permanent employment, because if I don't, I won't be able to compete with Polish workers who'll work for 1/6th of the legal minimum wage. At least with permanent employment, I'll have some legal protection from being fired because my employer wants to hire someone who'll underbid me.
Failing that, I'll either have to go on wellfare (and I'll get the top & permant kind under the current rules because of my skills and employment history) or I can move to Poland and underbid Danish workers...

No matter what, how does anyone benefit? I don't. Pollibly I'll be a pretty heavy burdon on my society. Another possibility is that I'll force someone like me to become a heavy burden, one who has a family and can't just move like I can.

The only ones who gain from all this are, not my employers directly, but their bosses. The top 20 companies who run nearly all the construction sector. They'll even benefit more the bigger they are, so ultimately they'll buy eachother up. That means they can make even more cartel-like deals than they already do, and they will make even more money than they currently do.
Just like in America, taxcut's grow according to the income a business generate...

They'll be swimming in rivers of fucking gold, put everyone out of business, employ nothing but illegal workers, be untouchable by the law because noone cares to do anything, and because private citizens will only be able to hire the companies off-the-books. No taxable income means they'll never get nailed for what really is 50% of their income.

So yea.... That working class doesn't exist. At least not for long. We'll be out of work in a couple of years. Gotta love the fucking disgusting peices of shit also known as neoliberals :mad:

If you say you are without sin, you are a liar, and if you are a liar, you are a sinner. It's all in the bible.







SINNER!




I did not say I was without sin, I said I was without that particular sin ;)

I'm not either, luckily I have a pair of deadly scissors in my car!!!....(yeah, I'm as good as dead)

LOL. David's in the army now the last time I heard from him. Nothing better than a deranged man with access to rapid fire weapons
:D

A global living wage would kick ass!
It would most certainly kick the Third world workers' ass all the way into starvation. If wages were the same worldwide, where would jobs come from for Malaysia and Taiwan?

Vatican city. It's gonna get mighty crowded in there.

Then again, that's because the secular Italians broke a treaty with the Pope, took all his land, and to add insult to injury took his private residence.

The French of course, betrayed their alliance with the Pope.

I'd MUCH rather live in the Papal States, I wouldn't have to raise my blood presesure dealing with you all.

And Christians have been victimized a hell of a lot since we became the majority in Europe. The Huns came in from the North and East and generally destroyed every city they could get their hands on and nearly ruined civilization. The Vikings invaded and oppressed us and generally ransacked churches and raped nuns. The Muslims invaded Spain and Sicily, and while modern historians make the Christians in Spain quite well off, they had their deal of oppresive regiemes. The Mongols invaded from the East and slaughtered cities by the wholesale. The Turks steal Christian youths and endoctrinate them in Islam and make them fight in the front lines of the army. The Soviet Union banned any type of organized religion and killed any priests, nuns, or anyone who wouldn't abandon their faith. Germany became pagan nazis and destroyed Catholic churches in Austria, France, Poland, and Czechoslovakia.

I did not say I was without sin, I said I was without that particular sin ;)
Ah, I see now. But if you yourself are a sinner, who are you to judge? It's not exactly like your god provided a rating system on the sins to indicate the amount of evil each is!

It would most certainly kick the Third world workers' ass all the way into starvation. If wages were the same worldwide, where would jobs come from for Malaysia and Taiwan?
Is a living wage in Malaysia the same as a living wage in the USA? Nope. The third world could still compete for manufacturing jobs, but the playing field would be more even. Jobs wouldn't be leaving the USA and Europe as quickly, and the jobs that did move to the third world would bring in alot more money per worker, thus improving the economy faster.

Ah, I see now. But if you yourself are a sinner, who are you to judge? It's not exactly like your god provided a rating system on the sins to indicate the amount of evil each is!



True, and I expect others to point out my sins as well. If we all rebuke one another, we can be aware of our issues and work on them.

True, and I expect others to point out my sins as well. If we all rebuke one another, we can be aware of our issues and work on them.
Well, do you hate Harry Potter?

Your mom

That's a classic bullshit argument, to which there exist a no less classic reply. Anyone can mix concrete- but how many can manage the finances of a multinational? How many can invent? How many can perform heart surgery and do countless other high-paid jobs?


With that kind of responsibility, if you take away the benefits no one will want the job. And then back to the caves we go...


It's a great deal of improvement over what was there before. It is easy to build scarecrows once you rip your examples out of context. The truth, though, is that the poor are obviously getting richer, even though at a slower rate than the rich are getting richer.


It makes perfect sense. A CEO of a major corporation stakes his entire life on his job- decades of education and of earning his way up the chain of command. The job is gone- his entire life is gone with it. The guy mixing concrete can lose one job and find an equivalent one with ease.


Plenty of people are worth that much. Hell, if he wasn't worth that much, the company wouldn't pay him that much. Unless we are talking about a government owned company, which is an abomination upon the earth.
You're making it seem as if I think everyone should be paid the same ammount of money. I'm not saying that. I don't want to eliminate the rich, only to close the gap between their salaries and the working poor's salaries. A person who does a job that few others could do does deserve to be rewarded, but the current system rewards them too much at the expense of the people trying to scrape by on a "regular" job.

A person who works a full time job deserves enough pay to keep a decent roof over his head, good food on his table, and sturdy clothes on his back. Fair is fair.

Well, do you hate Harry Potter?



I'm more of a Tolkien person.

Is a living wage in Malaysia the same as a living wage in the USA? Nope. The third world could still compete for manufacturing jobs, but the playing field would be more even. Jobs wouldn't be leaving the USA and Europe as quickly, and the jobs that did move to the third world would bring in alot more money per worker, thus improving the economy faster.
Jobs wouldn't be moving to the third world AT ALL, and neither would technology. Yes, more money per worker- but for how many workers? You said yourself- jobs wouldn't be leaving the West as quickly, how come you fail to realize the full implications of it?

I remember the times when people laughed at the "made in South Korea" label. They started off as a sweatshop state for the West, now they are among the richest countries in the region. Same with Taiwan. Malaysia is the next one in line, they are already one of the major manufacturing places, and their life level goes up steadily.

Job outsourcing is VITAL for improving the third world economy, how do people not get it???

You're making it seem as if I think everyone should be paid the same ammount of money. I'm not saying that. I don't want to eliminate the rich, only to close the gap between their salaries and the working poor's salaries. A person who does a job that few others could do does deserve to be rewarded, but the current system rewards them too much at the expense of the people trying to scrape by on a "regular" job.
What is too much and how do you determine it? And why would a private company interested in profit overpay their employees of whatever rank?


A person who works a full time job deserves enough pay to keep a decent roof over his head, good food on his table, and sturdy clothes on his back. Fair is fair.
Fair? There's fair and there's possible, my friend. Trying to defy the objective laws of economy by protectionist legislation will always, ALWAYS do more harm than good, because in the long run by hurting the economic development it will hurt the very people it seeks to protect.

That's a classic bullshit argument, to which there exist a no less classic reply. Anyone can mix concrete- but how many can manage the finances of a multinational? How many can invent? How many can perform heart surgery and do countless other high-paid jobs?

Sure, anyone can mix concrete. Only, it takes highly skilled and often highly specialized workers to build modern day things... Like hospitals, office buildings or private homes. Why the hell do you think workers have to take courses every 6-12 months to stay up to date?
Do you have any idea how many tools people use they invent themselves inside 30 minutes, because they have to get the job done without spending more time than they've already agreed? Go ask a construction worker, a carpenter, and electrician, etc. How many of all their crazy gizmo's have been invented by someone because they just had to come up with something on the spot. At least half the tools of any trade was born this way. And yea, just like everyone else, we improve them over time. And often, some manufacturer will discover the idea and have their designers (or whatever) refine them further.

With that kind of responsibility, if you take away the benefits no one will want the job. And then back to the caves we go...

YEa... Because having worker-run workplaces reverts everything to the stoneage.. But then. let's get on with it. At least then you'll be the useless puny geek depending on me for your food.
Alternatively, you could just do away with the inane laws encouraging people to sue everyone for anything. "Argh! The doctor didn't have to amputate both my legs! Good thing I can sue him for a gazillion $$$!!" What the fuck is the point of that? It's not like it's hard to tell from a doctor's trackrecord if he's useless. If he is, just revoke his licence. No reason for him to make 5-6 times what I do, is there? His productive age is shorter or at least as short as mine. Without my work, he couldn't do his work. Just like I can't do what he does, chances are he can't do what I do...

It's a great deal of improvement over what was there before. It is easy to build scarecrows once you rip your examples out of context. The truth, though, is that the poor are obviously getting richer, even though at a slower rate than the rich are getting richer.

Hmm... Exporting the jobs of the working class. Cutting benefits because the country is generating more money than ever before. Consentrating all wealth on fewer and fewer hands... This is good for whom exactly? Are you in that top 5%? Or are you in the 30% who're on the brink of unimployment?

It makes perfect sense. A CEO of a major corporation stakes his entire life on his job- decades of education and of earning his way up the chain of command. The job is gone- his entire life is gone with it. The guy mixing concrete can lose one job and find an equivalent one with ease.

YEa.. A CEO stakes what? He works long hours, like everyone else if they can get away with it. He has a long education.. Which basically means he's got shorter time to generate wealth for society, right? It's not like he's doing anyone but himself a favour being in school. At least not when he goes to work in the private secort afterwards. Anyway, he stakes his entire life on this one CEO gig, eh? Kindly explain why such people get payed anywhere from 10 to 1000 times what a worker in the same company does? Even 10 times isn't justified by his greater responsibility. And explain why it's never the CEO who goes first when there's lay-off's. Oh, and explain to me why such people get multi-million dollar checks for leaving their jobs when they're hopelessly incompetent.... And why do they almost always have a new, similar job almost before they get fired?
Take one more swing at the guy who mixes concrete and you'll end up in it! You're as wrong as can be and you're insulting as hell.
Plenty of people are worth that much. Hell, if he wasn't worth that much, the company wouldn't pay him that much. Unless we are talking about a government owned company, which is an abomination upon the earth.
No people are worth that much. Corporations have no business existing in the first place. I really hope you'll spend the rest of your life on minimum wage doing manual labour so you'll get a clue what you're babbling about.

Jobs wouldn't be moving to the third world AT ALL, and neither would technology. Yes, more money per worker- but for how many workers? You said yourself- jobs wouldn't be leaving the West as quickly, how come you fail to realize the full implications of it?

I remember the times when people laughed at the "made in South Korea" label. They started off as a sweatshop state for the West, now they are among the richest countries in the region. Same with Taiwan. Malaysia is the next one in line, they are already one of the major manufacturing places, and their life level goes up steadily.

Job outsourcing is VITAL for improving the third world economy, how do people not get it???
Did I say I wanted to stop outsourcing? Nope. I only want to slow it down so it doesn't devastate communities here at home. By increasing the ammount of money paid to the third world workers you can protect some of our jobs and still fund third world economic growth. Regulated markets can work, and they're much easier on the people than totally free markets.

How many can perform heart surgery and do countless other high-paid jobs?
Surgeons deserve whatever they get paid. However, heads of companies being driven into the ground and still making millions and millions of dollars are no surgeons

Ihatevacations']Surgeons deserve whatever they get paid. However, heads of companies being driven into the ground and still making millions and millions of dollars are no surgeons

Of course they are the surgically extract the wealth from the company. :D

Of course they are the surgically extract the wealth from the company. :D


Like those Tyco, Enron and Aldelphia cable bastards.

Sure, anyone can mix concrete. Only, it takes highly skilled and often highly specialized workers to build modern day things... Like hospitals, office buildings or private homes. Why the hell do you think workers have to take courses every 6-12 months to stay up to date?
Do you have any idea how many tools people use they invent themselves inside 30 minutes, because they have to get the job done without spending more time than they've already agreed? Go ask a construction worker, a carpenter, and electrician, etc. How many of all their crazy gizmo's have been invented by someone because they just had to come up with something on the spot. At least half the tools of any trade was born this way. And yea, just like everyone else, we improve them over time. And often, some manufacturer will discover the idea and have their designers (or whatever) refine them further.



YEa... Because having worker-run workplaces reverts everything to the stoneage.. But then. let's get on with it. At least then you'll be the useless puny geek depending on me for your food.
Alternatively, you could just do away with the inane laws encouraging people to sue everyone for anything. "Argh! The doctor didn't have to amputate both my legs! Good thing I can sue him for a gazillion $$$!!" What the fuck is the point of that? It's not like it's hard to tell from a doctor's trackrecord if he's useless. If he is, just revoke his licence. No reason for him to make 5-6 times what I do, is there? His productive age is shorter or at least as short as mine. Without my work, he couldn't do his work. Just like I can't do what he does, chances are he can't do what I do...



Hmm... Exporting the jobs of the working class. Cutting benefits because the country is generating more money than ever before. Consentrating all wealth on fewer and fewer hands... This is good for whom exactly? Are you in that top 5%? Or are you in the 30% who're on the brink of unimployment?



YEa.. A CEO stakes what? He works long hours, like everyone else if they can get away with it. He has a long education.. Which basically means he's got shorter time to generate wealth for society, right? It's not like he's doing anyone but himself a favour being in school. At least not when he goes to work in the private secort afterwards. Anyway, he stakes his entire life on this one CEO gig, eh? Kindly explain why such people get payed anywhere from 10 to 1000 times what a worker in the same company does? Even 10 times isn't justified by his greater responsibility. And explain why it's never the CEO who goes first when there's lay-off's. Oh, and explain to me why such people get multi-million dollar checks for leaving their jobs when they're hopelessly incompetent.... And why do they almost always have a new, similar job almost before they get fired?
Take one more swing at the guy who mixes concrete and you'll end up in it! You're as wrong as can be and you're insulting as hell.

No people are worth that much. Corporations have no business existing in the first place. I really hope you'll spend the rest of your life on minimum wage doing manual labour so you'll get a clue what you're babbling about.


BRAVO! BRAVO!

I know my brother in law who is a carpenter has a very demanding job. I know that I couldn't do it. Nor could I pour concrete and build things like my father. Nor could I fix my car when something happens to it. I have to rely on others for such skill.

Earning 20million dollars or more a year as a CEO of a corporation is a sick joke. There is no reason for it. He isn't the only one that is making the decisions in the company.

Being a member of the Chinese race. My race has been abused, massacred and downtrodden for the last few centuries, both by internal strife and foreign ambitions.

Being a member of the Chinese race. My race has been abused, massacred and downtrodden for the last few centuries, both by internal strife and foreign ambitions.

The Chinese have had a glorious but violent past and it looks like they are making some small steps in giving there people more freedoms. As long as there isn't another T square massacre. :(

In the next decade the world will have to respect the Chinese as they will be a major factor in the world economy more than they already are.

Alternatively, you could just do away with the inane laws encouraging people to sue everyone for anything.

I agree.


YEa.. A CEO stakes what? He works long hours, like everyone else if they can get away with it. He has a long education.. Which basically means he's got shorter time to generate wealth for society, right? It's not like he's doing anyone but himself a favour being in school. At least not when he goes to work in the private secort afterwards. Anyway, he stakes his entire life on this one CEO gig, eh? Kindly explain why such people get payed anywhere from 10 to 1000 times what a worker in the same company does?

Because other people feel he deserves it.


Even 10 times isn't justified by his greater responsibility. And explain why it's never the CEO who goes first when there's lay-off's.

That's up for the companies to decide. Plenty of CEOs do get sacked. Not every corporation is Enron.


No people are worth that much.

People are worth exactly what other people pay them... no more no less, there is no objective value.


Corporations have no business existing in the first place.

Why not?

BRAVO! BRAVO!

I know my brother in law who is a carpenter has a very demanding job. I know that I couldn't do it. Nor could I pour concrete and build things like my father. Nor could I fix my car when something happens to it. I have to rely on others for such skill.

Earning 20million dollars or more a year as a CEO of a corporation is a sick joke. There is no reason for it. He isn't the only one that is making the decisions in the company.
Thanks. It's heartwarming to hear I'm not the only uneducated, dispensable idiot here. I know your words would make your family proud.

It's not like any of all the people who makes society function asks for anything much. We don't need praise or ever increasing raises. We just need people to recognise we're neither daft nor second class citizens. I could say something about society breaking down completely if the workers of the world took a week off, but I doubt a lot of you guys can fathom the implications of such a statement.

I can't help but get a feeling some of you people would like to revoke my right to vote, because people like me doesn't give a shit about your selfglorification. What makes you think any CEO is more important than a guy mopping the floor? No company can work if only one of th two are present. Sure, you have the right to be egomaniacs, but really, humans are social creatures. If you don't want the society you're part of to break down, you need to consider others than just yourself. No doubt some of my collegues would never be able to run a successful company. But a lot of them would do the job every bit as good as any other CEO, provided they had the money for education & the friends to get the job. Also, most CEO's are probably doing something they love. If that's ok, why isn't it equally ok to take pride and find fullfillment in building houses for people or bridges or whatever?
And what of the people who honestly hates their shitty jobs. People who find no joy in building shit they don't think is needed and doing a job people look down on? Considering what they're doing is just as important as any CEO, perhaps the disgruntled guy who's treated like shit and generally treated like a second class citizen deserves a bigger paycheck than the bloody CEO.

Pah! It's not like I'm advocating equal pay for everyone, noone would ever do anything under such a system. I just think some of you are advocating some completely grotesque things. Things that ruin the lives of the workers who make it possible. Just because all paychecks aren't the same, it doesn't mean they should be so radically different. A doctor should earn more than me, but not 5 times more. 1½ or 2 maybe, no more. What justification is there for the current sad state of affairs?

Thanks. It's heartwarming to hear I'm not the only uneducated, dispensable idiot here. I know your words would make your family proud.

(snip)


I have the utmost respect for anyone that is in construction or the service industries. They always go to work even if the weather is crappy. I mean just the other day I watched a group of men and women fixing potholes in 90 plus degree weather. Nobody slowed down as they flew past them. I felt bad for them and went to the store and brought them back some water and cokes.

I have the utmost respect for anyone that is in construction or the service industries. They always go to work even if the weather is crappy. I mean just the other day I watched a group of men and women fixing potholes in 90 plus degree weather. Nobody slowed down as they flew past them. I felt bad for them and went to the store and brought them back some water and cokes.
You're now officially my hero :)

You're now officially my hero :)

Nah I'm nobodys hero. I'm just a struggling writer looking to hit it big. :D

edited: because my head hurts from editing all day long >_<

In the 1960's a CEO made an average of 47 times the wage of the average worker. Now they make more than 400 times that of the average worker.
Explain to me how much harder the CEO's work now than they did in the 60's.

In the 1960's a CEO made an average of 47 times the wage of the average worker. Now they make more than 400 times that of the average worker.
Explain to me how moch harder the CEO's work now than they did in the 60's.

Heh. I think you'll find that it is a rare job in which pay is actually proportional to effort.

The victims are average working people. Doesn't matter what race, nationality, religion, etc. They're exploited by the wealthy (not always but very often), They're attacked by extremists. They're looked down upon by over-educated idiots both left and right wing. And they have to do the work and fight the wars that drive the world foreward.

Thirty-fifthed...or whatever... :p

Actually I voted "Other" because whenever I think of "victims", my first thought is always Native Americans and other cultures that have been displaced and destroyed due to colonial expansionism.

Because other people feel he deserves it.

Only that's not as true as you make it sound. Firstly only a very small number of people thinks he deserves it. The underlying "Everyone think's those guys deserve it" couldn't be much further from the truth. The majority of people loathe him getting that insane paycheck. But it's not something we can remedy easily.

That's up for the companies to decide. Plenty of CEOs do get sacked. Not every corporation is Enron.

Yea.. When they've run the company in the ground, gotten rich in the process and have either been offered a new job, or started a new business with the money they leeched from the first one.

People are worth exactly what other people pay them... no more no less, there is no objective value.

For the things above, as well as for this: Look below.

Why not?

Because who the fuck do you think pays for corporate subsidising? The CEO? No. Guys like that only get money, they don't contribute. Ok that's of course only almost true. They pay less taxes than everyone else, make more money than everyone else. We work for them. We pay our taxes to them. And they whine about punitive taxrates. If I made the laws here, every board member would be arrested, emerged to the neck in a steaming pile of shit and left there. With people standing ready to shoot them if they try to climb out.
I could write several books on why the private sector and the government's funding of it is, not a road to nowhere, but a road to disaster. Corporations shouldn't exist because they do not benefit the people they're comprised of, or society at large for that matter. They only benefit a select few rich fuckers who've already earned the right to be permanently banished. And corporations can't be held responsible for the shit they pull. They're a menace. It's like legalizing murder.