NationStates Jolt Archive

At what age should our citizens be allowed to...

- Drive a car?

- Own a gun?

- Drink alcohol?

- Vote?

- Have consensual sex?

- Marry?

- Be considered adults?

Is there any way to harmonize a few of these, or should they be chosen independently?

At what age should our citizens be allowed to...

- Drive a car?

- Own a gun?

- Drink alcohol?

- Vote?

- Have consensual sex?

- Be considered adults?

Is there any way to harmonize a few of these, or should they be chosen independently?

16
Never
17
17
16
17

I think 17 is surprisingly more adult than 16, but not much different to 18

Car - 18
Gun - Never
Booze - 16
Vote - 18
Sex - 16
Marriage - 18
Adult......not sure..... I guess 18 cause then you'll have all the rights

I've added an entry for marriage. ;)

- Drive a car?15

- Own a gun?18

- Drink alcohol?18

- Vote?18

- Have consensual sex?13

- Marry?18

- Be considered adults?18

- Drive a car?

Never
- Own a gun?
Never

- Drink alcohol?
14

- Vote?
14

- Have consensual sex?
14

- Marry?
14

- Be considered adults?
14

- Drive a car?

Never
HAHAHAHA.....hahah......*snicker*

Dude......why?

drive-16 if passed a state-licensed driver’s ed class, 18 otherwise
gun- whenever their parents deem them ready for the responsibility
alcohol- 21, in your home whenever your parents deem you ready
vote- 18, if you pass a basic test on the constitution
sex- 18
Marry- 21
adults- 21

- Drink alcohol? as early as your parents are willing to allow it

- Buy alcohol? 17

HAHAHAHA.....hahah......*snicker*

Dude......why?

Because cars are so polluting and are killing the world.

Mass transit is the way forward.

At what age should our citizens be allowed to...

- Drive a car?

- Own a gun?

- Drink alcohol?

- Vote?

- Have consensual sex?

- Marry?

- Be considered adults?

Is there any way to harmonize a few of these, or should they be chosen independently?
20
30
16
20
15
20
20

I'd consider 20 a better age for being a legal adult. I don't think people who aren't legally adult should drive, get married or vote. People usually grow mellow with age. I dislike the idea of people under 30 owning a gun.

Further, I'd like to see the military closed to people under 25 and I'd like to ban people with children from owning guns. I know some people like to shoot things, but if they don't fulfill the criteria I just mentioned, I think they should settle for borrowing a gun at a firing range and keep it there.

- Drive a car? 15

- Own a gun? 18

- Drink alcohol? 18

- Vote? 18

- Have consensual sex? 16

- Marry? 18

- Be considered adults? 18

Funny how some people are for banning guns and cars, but then say alcohol and sex should be legal under the age of 18. Just goes to show you: social liberals are only about the civil rights that they like.

Because cars are so polluting and are killing the world.

Mass transit is the way forward.
But but but......all the busdrivers will be unemployed :(

Here is a compilation of your answers (up to now). Mean values.

- Drive a car? 17 (abolish cars: 14%)
- Own a gun? 20 (abolish guns: 43%)
- Drink alcohol? 17
- Vote? 18
- Have consensual sex? 15
- Marry? 18
- Be considered adults? 18

Sooo.....
You start walking the road to adulthood by having sex at some undisclosed place at 15, although you won't have access to "parking sex" for another 2 years. But that's ok, because as soon as you can drive, so will you be allowed to have a drink or two (or more). While you won't get to shoot at pigeons while driving / being drunk, it'll be perfectly legal to shoot at pigeons while having sex. Eventually you'll be considered adult, get drunk, have sex, while will lead to marriage (while you're voting) and eventually, you'll get bored of it all and be allowed to buy a gun.
LOL

By the way, here are the stats for Quebec
- Drive a car? 16
- Own a gun? 12 (accompanied by parent ALL THE TIME) / 18
- Drink alcohol? 18
- Vote? 18
- Have consensual sex? 14 (but no sex allowed between minor and adult)
- Marry? 16 (with parent's consent) / 18
- Be considered adults? 18

Funny how some people are for banning guns and cars, but then say alcohol and sex should be legal under the age of 18. Just goes to show you: social liberals are only about the civil rights that they like.

Of course. Abuse of sex and alcohol primarily hurts yourself. Abuse of guns and cars hurts other people.

- Drive a car? 18, after getting a license.
- Own a gun? 21, with a slip of good behaviour and registration.
- Drink alcohol? < 16% and normal wine: 16. Higher percentages 18+
- Vote? 18
- Have consensual sex? 16, where the partner should be no older than 25. 18+ has no upper age limit.
- Marry? 18
- Be considered adults? 18

And my own:
Be introduced to religion: 12
Choose your own religion: 16.

At what age should our citizens be allowed to...

- Drive a car?

- Own a gun?

- Drink alcohol?

- Vote?

- Have consensual sex?

- Marry?

- Be considered adults?

Is there any way to harmonize a few of these, or should they be chosen independently?

18
Never
16 - For Buying Alcohol, But Comsumption with Parental Permission has No Limit.
16
16
18
16

Funny how some people are for banning guns and cars, but then say alcohol and sex should be legal under the age of 18. Just goes to show you: social liberals are only about the civil rights that they like.

Aye, we like the right to not be shot, we do.

And now, my two cents:
Driving: 16, supervised. Minimum to test to drive unsupervised, 18.
Gun ownership: Never.
Drinking: Either 18, or earlier with clear parental consent.
Alcohol purchase: Strictly 18+
Voting: 16.
Consensual sex: 16, earlier if age difference 1 year or less.
Marriage: 18, earlier with judicial consent.
Adulthood: Irrelevant social construct; some people are just overgrown children. Can I institute an annual adulthood exam, starting from age 16, with adult status open to revocation should any part of the test be failed, up until the date of the next test?

- Drive a car?
17
- Own a gun?
17
- Drink alcohol?
17
- Vote?
17
- Have consensual sex?
15, but the older must be within 4 years of the younger. Once someone reaches 17, that corollary is dropped.
- Marry?
17
- Be considered adults?
17

Wow, I like the number 17, huh? xD But I think it's about as good a medium as one can strike. Some people will never be mature enough to be trusted, but at the same time I know a couple of 15 year olds who I'd hand my life to any day of the week. I see very, very little difference between when people are 17 and when they are 18 or 19, but there tend to be much bigger differences between 15, 16, and 17.

- Drive a car? 16

- Own a gun? 18, but using a gun should be any age with parent supervision.

- Drink alcohol? Any age, age limits only lead to over-drinking by minors.

- Vote? 16

- Have consensual sex? 15

- Marry? 18

- Be considered adults? 18

Of course. Abuse of sex and alcohol primarily hurts yourself. Abuse of guns and cars hurts other people.

I would say abuse of sex certainly hurts other people, especially if that other person is too young to rationalize. Abuse of alcohol leads to violent crime. Sex and alcohol don’t protect you and your family or provide the most convenient form of transportation yet known to man.

And my own:
Be introduced to religion: 12
Choose your own religion: 16.

Impossible. Many religions require that they pass their faith on to their children and require some public display that would be noticed by children. Thank God for the First Amendment.

Drinking: Either 18, or earlier with clear parental consent.
Alcohol purchase: Strictly 18+
This one's a bit tricky, isn't it?

In Quebec, if you're not 18...
- you can't buy alcohol
- you can't enter a bar or be granted access to a show where alcohol is served
- you can't order a glass of wine at the restaurant, or have your parent order it for you
- you can't drink alcohol in public
- but you CAN access most public places where alcohol is served, although you cannot buy alcohol

BUT the law allows people of ANY AGE to drink alcohol at home, or in private places.

I've still written "18", even though the law has a shade of grey.

As for the gun use/ownership law (federal law by the way), underage persons very rarely own guns. And even though 27% of Quebec homes have a gun, it is very seldom used -- most are hunting shotguns anyway, used for... guess what... 1 week of hunting/year. And then they're stored for 11.75 months ;)

drive - 18
gun - never
alcohol - buy at 16. bought by parents whenever.
vote - 16
sex - 16
marry - 18
adult - 18

Sex and alcohol don’t protect you and your family or provide the most convenient form of transportation yet known to man.

The opposite side of that coin is that, if no-one has guns, then traditional forms of self-defense like baseball bats become far more effective. If nobody has a gun, nobody needs one to protect themselves with.

As to transportation, there's a sprawling industry built on ecologically devastating construction and usage practices for private passenger vehicles at every point from resource extracion and refining to the driving itself. More effective, cheaper, less damaging means of transport have been discovered, but the companies making a killing out of the status quo are sitting on the patents.

At what age should our citizens be allowed to...

- Drive a car?

- Own a gun?

- Drink alcohol?

- Vote?

- Have consensual sex?

- Marry?

- Be considered adults?

Is there any way to harmonize a few of these, or should they be chosen independently?


18
18
Never
18
18
18
19

As for the gun use/ownership law (federal law by the way), underage persons very rarely own guns. And even though 27% of Quebec homes have a gun, it is very seldom used -- most are hunting shotguns anyway, used for... guess what... 1 week of hunting/year. And then they're stored for 11.75 months ;)

I've always been amused that Canada has more guns per person than the US, and fewer shootings in a year than the US can expect for a day.

The opposite side of that coin is that, if no-one has guns, then traditional forms of self-defense like baseball bats become far more effective. If nobody has a gun, nobody needs one to protect themselves with.

As to transportation, there's a sprawling industry built on ecologically devastating construction and usage practices for private passenger vehicles at every point from resource extracion and refining to the driving itself. More effective, cheaper, less damaging means of transport have been discovered, but the companies making a killing out of the status quo are sitting on the patents.




Sorry, but a 300 lb man with a baseball bat > 120 lb woman with baseball bat. I cherish my right to have the weapon that has been referred to as "the great equalizer", thank you very much.

- Drive a car? 17, I think.

- Own a gun? Never.

- Drink alcohol? 18.

- Vote? 18. Teenagers' politics are too extreme!

- Have consensual sex? Ideally - when married. Realistically - 18/20.

- Marry? 18.

- Be considered adults? 18.

I hate being such a conformist…

Drive a car?
Soon as they're properly trained.

- Own a gun?
Soon as they're properly trained.

- Drink alcohol?
Tough call. I'm inclined to say never because it's just a problematic drug, but the freedom hound in me says whenever they're considered an adult.

- Vote?
Soon as they're old enough to get a paycheck.

- Have consensual sex?
They'll know when they're ready.

- Marry?
Soon as they're considered adults.

- Be considered adults?
When their parents say so.

Impossible. Many religions require that they pass their faith on to their children and require some public display that would be noticed by children. Thank God for the First Amendment.

Children are not adults yet and therefor do not yet have several rights (as this topic shows). I am not against adults practising a religion they have chosen, but i want it to be an informed choice. A child cannot make such decisions.
If parents can leave the room when having sex, they can also leave it for religion. Or at least not read from the Bible/Koran/etc and tae it to sermons until the child is old enough to understand it.

This also applies to things like the HitlerJugend etc.

Sorry, but a 300 lb man with a baseball bat > 120 lb woman with baseball bat. I cherish my right to have the weapon that has been referred to as "the great equalizer", thank you very much.
And I like living in a country where people don't have a legal right to carry high-speed death wherever they please. Making firearms cheap and accessible, and putting them in the hands of ordinary citizens, makes life very, very cheap. Making lethal force easily accessible increases the temptation to use it - as, I believe, the statistics for shooting-related deaths clearly indicate.

Teenagers' politics are too extreme!

Teenagers' politics also tend to be focused, clear, and motivated - something they lose by the time they're actually allowed to vote. I'd suggest that allowing them a role in choosing who they want to represent their interests may help to kill voter apathy.

Hum? People are not all the same. One 18 year old is not necessarily as mature as any other 18 year old. In all these issues it is about the ability to act responsibly and be aware of the consequences of your actions. This combined with the experience to anticipate events (for driving at least).

So no set age, but a test of responsibility and acceptance of responsibility. Developing this test would be a great doctorate project in psychology. Every person should have the right to take the test at least once every six months and if they pass they are awarded majority status, and they can do all the things listed. If they fail, they are still minors and what they do in public is restricted. (What they do at home depends on their parents.)

The opposite side of that coin is that, if no-one has guns, then traditional forms of self-defense like baseball bats become far more effective. If nobody has a gun, nobody needs one to protect themselves with.

Ideally sure. But in reality even if you banned guns, certain people would keep them , namely criminals. Then, guess what, you have almost no defense against an armed assailant. Not to mention that a well armed populace is the best defense against tyrannical government.

As to transportation, there's a sprawling industry built on ecologically devastating construction and usage practices for private passenger vehicles at every point from resource extracion and refining to the driving itself. More effective, cheaper, less damaging means of transport have been discovered, but the companies making a killing out of the status quo are sitting on the patents.

Aware of that. When I said yet known to man, what I meant was yet available to man, sorry for the confusion. The simple fact is, this won’t change until the general population demands these less damaging forms of transportation, which they have yet to do.

A test for responsibility could be somewhat effective, but is dependent on finding a way to protect it against people who simply learn what they have to do to pass the test and then expect everyone else to look after them.

Assuming that there's a way around this, would your model include compulsory testing at set intervals to ensure that individuals continue to qualify as mature and responsible?

And I like living in a country where people don't have a legal right to carry high-speed death wherever they please. Making firearms cheap and accessible, and putting them in the hands of ordinary citizens, makes life very, very cheap. Making lethal force easily accessible increases the temptation to use it - as, I believe, the statistics for shooting-related deaths clearly indicate.




Yes, and I suppose I'm just going to tell the rapist, who takes life cheaply himself, "Please don't"? Sorry, but keeping guns from women so they can't defend themselves is nothing short of sexism.

Or at least not read from the Bible/Koran/etc and tae it to sermons until the child is old enough to understand it.


Yes ... let's not teach anyone anything until they're old enough to understand it. Sorry, son, no algebra for you until you're 20. Now go make me a sandwich.

Oy vey ...

The idea of teaching anyone anything is to start teaching them when they're young. Whether it's algebra, how to tie your shoes, or religion. If you hide your beliefs from your children until they're older, then all you're doing is teaching them that religion is something to keep in the closet.

There's also the idea of actually being the parent. I don't eat pork. I don't eat pork for religious reasons. In short, I don't eat pork because the being that spawned the entire Universe - pigs included - said not to. To continue this theme, I don't allow pork in my kitchen. Now ... when my kids are adults and have their own kitchen, they can do what they please. For now, though, do you honestly expect me to just sit idley by while they eat hot dogs and ham sandwiches in my kitchen just to protect them from the horror that is religious faith?

Not on my watch.

Teenagers' politics also tend to be focused, clear, and motivated - something they lose by the time they're actually allowed to vote. I'd suggest that allowing them a role in choosing who they want to represent their interests may help to kill voter apathy.



They lack the judgement necessary to wisely choose a leader. If teenagers are granted the right to vote, I'm moving.

- Drive a car?
15
- Own a gun?
As soon as their parents allow it, or they become an adult.
- Drink alcohol?
As soon as their parents allow it, or they become an adult.
- Vote?
No one should ever vote. I hate democracy.
- Have consensual sex?
As soon as their parents allow it, or they become an adult.
- Marry?
As soon as their parents allow it, or they become an adult.
- Be considered adults?
As soon as they are independent financially.

About banning guns. You'll never get rid of guns, ever. Even if you managed to destroy every firearm in America it would only be a matter of hours until Zip guns are starting to be made and then a few weeks until they flood the streets.

Yes, and I suppose I'm just going to tell the rapist, who takes life cheaply himself, "Please don't"? Sorry, but keeping guns from women so they can't defend themselves is nothing short of sexism.
Oddly enough, I don't believe that we do need to have access to guns for self-defense, and claiming that we have a special right to devices that do little other than killing because it'd be sexist otherwise is a very flimsy argument. I would, however, be in favour of widely-accessible non-lethal weaponry for self-defense purposes. Guns are not non-lethal weapons.

Yes ... let's not teach anyone anything until they're old enough to understand it. Sorry, son, no algebra for you until you're 20. Now go make me a sandwich.

Oy vey ...

The idea of teaching anyone anything is to start teaching them when they're young. Whether it's algebra, how to tie your shoes, or religion. If you hide your beliefs from your children until they're older, then all you're doing is teaching them that religion is something to keep in the closet.

You of course have the right to act as you see fit in your own home. But does this include the right to perpetuate what is to non believers a fairy tale as being the truth.

Algebra is useful and non contentious. Algebra does not say that we we (any group you care to choose) are right and they (the non members of the chosen group) are wrong. Religion however does do this. If you want to to indoctrinate your children, then I suppose you can, you have that power. The question I have for you though concerns the status of the faith of an indoictrinated child when compared to the faith of a critically competent adult. Which is worthwhile?

They lack the judgement necessary to wisely choose a leader. If teenagers are granted the right to vote, I'm moving.
And yet today's government affects them more than it does any other demographic, meaning that those with the greatest interest in effective, stable leadership have absolutely no say in the matter. Furthermore, teenagers aren't a large enough slice of the population to be able to dictate who gets elected any more than middle-aged folk can.

It could also be argued that most adults don't have the necessary judgement to choose a leader wisely. Perhaps there should be a quiz on policies, taken by every voter, to ensure that they're informed enough to make a decision.

Oddly enough, I don't believe that we do need to have access to guns for self-defense, and claiming that we have a special right to devices that do little other than killing because it'd be sexist otherwise is a very flimsy argument. I would, however, be in favour of widely-accessible non-lethal weaponry for self-defense purposes. Guns are not non-lethal weapons.

You mean those one-shot tazers? Or the tear gas that can only work when someone is two feet away from you? Yeah, hell, let's give women some rocks, those are about as guaranteed.

The idea of teaching anyone anything is to start teaching them when they're young. Whether it's algebra, how to tie your shoes, or religion. If you hide your beliefs from your children until they're older, then all you're doing is teaching them that religion is something to keep in the closet.

Can't say as I'd mind that one bit. I think it's abhorrent to brainwash children, but there you go. Free speech really kicks you in the teeth sometimes.

For now, though, do you honestly expect me to just sit idley by while they eat hot dogs and ham sandwiches in my kitchen just to protect them from the horror that is religious faith?

Well, if you believe your kids have any hope of ever making a decision for themselves based on things they find out for themselves...

Oddly enough, I don't believe that we do need to have access to guns for self-defense, and claiming that we have a special right to devices that do little other than killing because it'd be sexist otherwise is a very flimsy argument. I would, however, be in favour of widely-accessible non-lethal weaponry for self-defense purposes. Guns are not non-lethal weapons.

And have you any right to claim control over another man's freedom? And guns are tools, when one is properly trained they can be both lethal and non-lethal.

At what age should our citizens be allowed to...

- Drive a car?

- Own a gun?

- Drink alcohol?

- Vote?

- Have consensual sex?

- Marry?

- Be considered adults?

Is there any way to harmonize a few of these, or should they be chosen independently?


- 15, but with a much more intensive qualifying test than the one currently in place.

- 18, 16 with parental consent and extra training.

- 12 with parental consent, but not allowed to buy until 16 or 18.

- 18

- 16

- 18

- 18

You mean those one-shot tazers? Or the tear gas that can only work when someone is two feet away from you? Yeah, hell, let's give women some rocks, those are about as guaranteed.
I would rather not have a society where I could legally execute someone for looking scary... or, for that matter, where any potential attacker(s) could legally be armed with their own gun(s).

I would rather not have a society where I could legally execute someone for looking scary... or, for that matter, where any potential attacker(s) could legally be armed with their own gun(s).

Legislation will not stop anyone who wants one from having a gun. Google "Zip gun"

You of course have the right to act as you see fit in your own home. But does this include the right to perpetuate what is to non believers a fairy tale as being the truth.

I'd have to go with a depends. I do believe I have the right to say my particular fairy tale is the truth to anyone who wishes to listen.

Algebra is useful and non contentious.

Pfft ... shows what you know ... algebra is eeevil! EEEVILLLL!!! :p

The question I have for you though concerns the status of the faith of an indoictrinated child when compared to the faith of a critically competent adult. Which is worthwhile?

It's not a matter of indoctrination. It's a matter of teaching. Like any subject, I have a choice as a parent: let them learn it from a teacher, their peers, or from me. When it comes to religion, I don't have to worry about teachers ... they're not allowed. However, I'm no more going to let them learn about religion exclusively from their peers than I would let them learn about sex or human relationships.

Indoctrination implies conversion. Something I'm not allowed to do - even with my own kids. They must make that decision on their own when they feel the time is right. Much like Morpheus, all I can do is show them the door ... they have to open it.

I live in a Christian majority country. Three weeks into starting school for the first time ever, my oldest child started asking why we didn't go to church on sundays and how come we didn't pray to Jesus. This was learned not from teachers, but from her classmates. She is still chided often for us not being Christian. Such is the nature of childhood.

However .... giving her a strong sense of who she is and where she came from allows her to answer the jeers without fear. At seven years old, she can hold her head up and proudly speak of her Muslim Jewish father and her Agnostic Catholic mother.

Would you have me just tell her to pretend we're Christian?

And have you any right to claim control over another man's freedom? And guns are tools, when one is properly trained they can be both lethal and non-lethal.
More so than a life.

Guns may be tools, but they're crude, blunt ones. Non-lethal gunshots tend toward being crippling, with a high risk of other injuries or of infection. Trying to shoot someone in a way that won't kill or permanently injure them is roughly like trying to slice bread with a cavalry broadsword.

More so than a life.

Guns may be tools, but they're crude, blunt ones. Non-lethal gunshots tend toward being crippling, with a high risk of other injuries or of infection. Trying to shoot someone in a way that won't kill or permanently injure them is roughly like trying to slice bread with a cavalry broadsword.

Have you ever fired a gun? If you have you know you're making a huge exaggeration. A small caliber firearm can easily temporarily disable with little lasting effects. The permanent damage being mainly scar tissue. And I don't get what you mean "more so than a life."

Can't say as I'd mind that one bit. I think it's abhorrent to brainwash children, but there you go. Free speech really kicks you in the teeth sometimes.

Ok ... so you believe it's perfectly acceptable to be openly Atheist?

Well, if you believe your kids have any hope of ever making a decision for themselves based on things they find out for themselves...

ROFL!! You don't have kids ... do you. The average 8 year old would drink battery acid right out of the car battery if they could lift it. "Find out for themselves" ... oh that's rich.

Legislation will not stop anyone who wants one from having a gun. Google "Zip gun"
If it is legal for one ordinary citizen to have a gun, it must be legal for all ordinary citizens to have a gun. If it is legal for all people to have guns, and use them for self-defence, then, hypothetically, person A is about to do Something to person B. Person B draws their gun, and threatens that if person A doesn't go on their merry way, then they will be forced to shoot. Person A draws their own gun on person B, defending themselves from the threat of shooting. When something goes wrong, who's at fault? It could be argued that both were defending themselves, with their legal right to protect themselves using their legally carried guns.

If someone makes their own illegal gun and illegally uses it, then it's pretty clear who's at fault.

- Drive a car? Beginning at 14, they can take a rigorouse driving test, if passed, they may drive with a superviser, after two years they may drive by themselves. Mandatory testing every two years.

- Own a gun? Beginning at 16, they can take a gun safety and competency test. If passed, they may own a gun. Mandatory testing every four years.

- Drink alcohol? With parental/guardian permission, at 20 they may drink even without it, as long as they are not alchoholics.

- Vote? When they pass a test determining if they are competent to vote.

- Have consensual sex? When married.

- Marry? With parental/guardian permission.

- Be considered adults? When they are financially independant.

Ok ... so you believe it's perfectly acceptable to be openly Atheist?


For all you know he could be agnostic.

For all you know he could be agnostic.

What he believes is not an assumption I'm willing to make. I merely asked a question. I'd like to know what kind of brainwashing he finds acceptable since religious brainwashing isn't.

Mandatory testing every two years.
That's a great idea.
But I'd say: mandatory driving test (written and road) every 4 or 5 years.
Plus, annual vehicle inspection. No more shitmobiles. :rolleyes:

Trying to shoot someone in a way that won't kill or permanently injure them is roughly like trying to slice bread with a cavalry broadsword.
Um, there's no such thing as a calvalry broadsword. There was the saber, which you could relatively successfully cut bread with, and there was a knight's broadsword, which would be a bit harder to cut bread with, however.

At what age should our citizens be allowed to...

- Drive a car? 16-18

- Own a gun? 16-18

- Drink alcohol? 16-18

- Vote? 16-18

- Have consensual sex? The way it is right now seems fine, you can have sex whenever you want (anyway it would be to hard to have a control on it), but can't fuck with an adult considering the authority position.


- Marry? 16-18

- Be considered adults? 16-18

Is there any way to harmonize a few of these, or should they be chosen independently?

16-18 for all, not much difference to me. As long as if you screw up you of face adult justice and not some gently juvenile court. It seem that for many people, maturity dont come with age.

My grand-mother was saying "dumb people at 14 years are still dumb at 86"

Trying to shoot someone in a way that won't kill or permanently injure them is roughly like trying to slice bread with a cavalry broadsword.
I'm sure it's possible to get a thin enough slice of bread. And of table.

car: 16 (accompanied by parents), 18 (alone)

gun: not at all.

alcohol: 16 for stuff up to 18%, 18 for stuff over 18%

Vote: 16

consensual sex: any age (if partner is at the same age +/- 2). 18 for full sexual freedom.

Marry: 18. People below only with their parent's consent.

Be considered adults: 18

Um, there's no such thing as a calvalry broadsword. There was the saber, which you could relatively successfully cut bread with, and there was a knight's broadsword, which would be a bit harder to cut bread with, however.
Quiet, you. :)

Um... the word cavalier can be somewhat interchanged with knight. *nods enthusiastically*

Yes ... let's not teach anyone anything until they're old enough to understand it. Sorry, son, no algebra for you until you're 20. Now go make me a sandwich.

I have taught 5 year olds basic algebra without much trouble, but that is an aside ;)
The point is that there basicly is only 1 kind of algebra (expanded with lots of fancy things later - but that is *expanding*, not something *different*). There are thousands of religions. Most of them teach a type of "logic" that excludes the possibility of other ways of thought being right, and a type of morals based on faith. Imrpinting this way of thought on a child will in most cases have lasting effects, even if he/she decides to follow a different religion later.

do you honestly expect me to just sit idley by while they eat hot dogs and ham sandwiches in my kitchen just to protect them from the horror that is religious faith?

Nope - you do not have to serve them that food. But you do not need to read them from your holy book, force them to pray or forbid them from buying the food with their own money either.

Um, there's no such thing as a calvalry broadsword. There was the saber, which you could relatively successfully cut bread with, and there was a knight's broadsword, which would be a bit harder to cut bread with, however.

No no no no no ... you want to cut bread with a serrated blade.

No no no no no ... you want to cut bread with a serrated blade.
Optimally, yes. But you don't NEED a serrated blade. If you're careful it's perfectly possibly to cut it with a flat blade, unless you eat wimpy white bread that is.

Nope - you do not have to serve them that food. But you do not need to read them from your holy book or forbid them from buying the food with their own money either.

No, I don't have to ... but that's what parents do. I wouldn't allow my daughters to dress up like tramps ... even if they bought the clothes with their own money.

We're not here to be their friends. My wife and I are the only people on the planet charged with the sole responsibility of making sure these little creatures grow up to be functional in the adult world. If we decide, as parents, that some of that should include a background in some form of religious faith, then that's what we'll do. Since we know that she and I function quite nicely, we can rely on how we were brought up ... both in religious families who didn't hide their religion. We turned out just fine.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with teaching children faith. Nothing whatsoever.

Optimally, yes. But you don't NEED a serrated blade. If you're careful it's perfectly possibly to cut it with a flat blade, unless you eat wimpy white bread that is.
Conversely, it's possible to squish bread by using a serrated blade very poorly.

White bread is an eeevil plot. And virtually tasteless.

At what age should our citizens be allowed to...

- Drive a car?

- Own a gun?

- Drink alcohol?

- Vote?

- Have consensual sex?

- Marry?

- Be considered adults?

Is there any way to harmonize a few of these, or should they be chosen independently?

Drive:
15.5 -- Mandatory State-sponsored driver education course.
16 -- Learner's permit for six months, driving only with a family member in the car over age 25. Following that, and after passing the written and driving tests, six months of probation with no driving between 10pm and 6am and no passengers other than family. Any violation or at-fault accident voids the license until 18.
17 -- After passing a more advanced written and driving test, good to go as legal unrestricted driver.

Own A Gun:
13 -- Licensure required, approved gun-safety class and tests passed. Then shooting allowed only with supervision (accredited gun range, parents, other adult who will be held liable should anything happen).
18 -- Good to go with standard adult license (possibly combine with driver's license for ease of identification).

Alcohol AND marijuana:
18 -- Zero tolerance for conviction of any alcohol-related misdemeanor or crime. First violation incurs a probation until 21.
21 -- Good to go as standard.

Vote:
18 -- Accurate records kept of whether or not citizen voted (NOT for whom or what). Failing to vote at least once every four years incurs a loss of Social Security benefits.

Consensual sex:
18 -- Virtually impossible to enforce, and equally easy to falsely accuse. SO this is just an opinion/wishful thinking.

Marry:
16 -- Needs notarized parental consent along with marriage license.
17 -- Either notarized parental consent or emancipation-type court order.
18 -- Good to go.

Adult?
18 -- Draftable, chargable with capital crimes, porno/lotto eligible, etc.

Of course, parents/guardians are free to educate and prepare their children in any legal way they see fit for any of these responsibilities. The age limits are intended to ensure the safety of adolescents and young adults when out among society.

18 for everything except for car and sex. Sex at 16, car at 16 with a learner's permit at 15.

18's a good age, people under that just aren't responsible (and this coming from a teenager).

- Drive a car?

Never
- Own a gun?
Never

- Drink alcohol?
14

- Vote?
14

- Have consensual sex?
14

- Marry?
14

- Be considered adults?
14
let me guess... you're 14. :rolleyes:

Drive:
16 -- Learner's permit for six months, driving only with a family member in the car over age 25. Following that, and after passing the written and driving tests, six months of probation with no driving between 10pm and 6am and no passengers other than family. Any violation or at-fault accident voids the license until 18.
17 -- After passing a more advanced written and driving test, good to go as legal unrestricted driver.

Own A Gun:
13 -- Licensure required, approved gun-safety class and tests passed.

Alcohol AND marijuana:
18 -- Zero tolerance for conviction of any alcohol-related misdemeanor or crime. First violation incurs a probation until 21.
21 -- Good to go as standard.

Vote:
18 -- Accurate records kept of whether or not citizen voted (NOT for whom or what). Failing to vote at least once every four years incurs a loss of Social Security benefits.

Consensual sex:
18 -- Virtually impossible to enforce, and equally easy to falsely accuse. SO this is just an opinion/wishful thinking.

Marry:
16 -- Needs notarized parental consent along with marriage license.
17 -- Either notarized parental consent or emancipation-type court order.
18 -- Good to go.

Adult?
18 -- Draftable, chargable with capital crimes, porno/lotto eligible, etc.
This is absolutely the best thought-out set of guidelines I've seen yet. Especially in regards to gun ownership and voting. *27 thumbs up* :D

17
never
(France's rules)
18
16
18
18
drugs - hollands rules

technically in england over 5 year olds may consume alcohol in their own house, if a sober adult is present

Own A Gun: 13 WTF!!!

- Drive a car? 16

- Own a gun? very young... young people hunt around here

- Drink alcohol? 21 (was 18 when I was younger :p )

- Vote? 18

- Have consensual sex? 18

- Marry? 18

- Be considered adults? 18

You can be drafted in the army (say there was conscription), but you can't drink. :rolleyes:

I'd have to go with a depends. I do believe I have the right to say my particular fairy tale is the truth to anyone who wishes to listen.
Do your children wish to listen?: Have you asked? Is it voluntary or are they imposed upon?

Pfft ... shows what you know ... algebra is eeevil! EEEVILLLL!!! :p
The truth however is that algebra is just the good and innocent party framed by the evil designs of calculus.

It's not a matter of indoctrination. It's a matter of teaching.
Would you care to define the difference? Where what is indoctrinated in a child is universaly agreed, then we call it teaching, where it is not, we call it indoctrination. Hence all religious teaching to children is, by nature, indoctrination

Like any subject, I have a choice as a parent: let them learn it from a teacher, their peers, or from me. When it comes to religion, I don't have to worry about teachers ... they're not allowed. However, I'm no more going to let them learn about religion exclusively from their peers than I would let them learn about sex or human relationships.
The problem with this attitude is that religion is not a subject that is discussed amongst kids normally. I have my own child who lives in a culture that is different to my religious beliefs, but he does not seem to acquire religious ideas from his colleagues or environment. So if you are presenting a religious line then that is the only line to which your child is being exposed. Hardly what you intend by your statements here.

Indoctrination implies conversion.
Flat wrong. Indoctrination is the imposition of the belief of one person on another. No previous belief is required to exist for it to be indoctrination. So it is not conversion.

Something I'm not allowed to do - even with my own kids. They must make that decision on their own when they feel the time is right. Much like Morpheus, all I can do is show them the door ... they have to open it.
If it is the only door they have ever heard of or seen or had presented in a favourable light, then it is not a free choice is it?

I live in a Christian majority country. Three weeks into starting school for the first time ever, my oldest child started asking why we didn't go to church on sundays and how come we didn't pray to Jesus. This was learned not from teachers, but from her classmates. She is still chided often for us not being Christian. Such is the nature of childhood.
I too live in an even more Christian dominated society (I am an atheist by the way), my child also was asked these questions and criticised for not going to church. We asked him if he wanted to go to church. He went back to school and asked his colleagues what they did at church, what was so great about it. They, according to his description, looked puzzled, thought a bit, and then said "Nothing, its boring actually" and that ended the matter. We did not argue or present any case to our son that he should or should not go to church. As such he is forming his own opinions. He asks questions, we answer as we can, but always make it clear that there are other answers that others hold to be true.

However .... giving her a strong sense of who she is and where she came from allows her to answer the jeers without fear. At seven years old, she can hold her head up and proudly speak of her Muslim Jewish father and her Agnostic Catholic mother.
This is where we fundamentally (not in a religious sense) disagree. Your daughter is who she is regardless of where she comes from, regardless of your beliefs and heritage, regardless of who you are. She is an independent human being with a right to form her own ideas and opinions. She is not you. She is herself. If she wishes to hold her head up and be proud she can do so, but she does not need this to be about your faith that you are imposing on her. If she wishes this to be what she is proud of, then fine, but you are doing her no favours bu inculcating this attitude.

Would you have me just tell her to pretend we're Christian?
No. I would have her be herself, whatever it is that she wishes to be. If she is too young to decide, then she is too young to worry about it.

(Soory about the delay, Jolt messed me around.)

- Drive a car?

I think 16 or 17 is good.

- Drink alcohol?

No age limit, or 16. I really think alchohol has become such a problem with minors only because its off limits, and in the teenage way of trying to push all the limits, pushing alchohol to the limits comes too simply because it's illegal, easy, and to many, fun. There's not that sort of mentality in cultures where alchohol is around and not a taboo.

- Vote?

18 is good with me.

- Have consensual sex?

17. before 17 (or 16? i can't decide) the partner needs to be within two or three years of their age. I can't make up my mind.

- Marry?

18

- Be considered adults?

18 works for me. 17 is too young still. 19 is too old.

marijuana should be legal too, but with the same restrictions as cigarettes and booze.

- Drive a car? 16 (required license), with testing every 5 years once you're past 60
- Own a gun? 16 (required license)
- Drink alcohol? 18 (if you can kill in the army, you should be able to drink)
- Vote? 18 (required license which you need to pass a test to get)
- Have consensual sex? this is a tough one... i'd say if you were able to take care of the kid then go for it.
- Marry? 18
- Be considered adults? 18

- Drive a car? 16

- Own a gun? never

- Drink alcohol? 16

- Vote? 16

- Have consensual sex? 14

- Marry? 16

- Be considered adults? 16

Do your children wish to listen?: Have you asked? Is it voluntary or are they imposed upon?

My children don't wish to listen to me lecture them on why not to pull the cat's tail either, but I don't ask them, I tell them. I'm the parent, not them.

If it is the only door they have ever heard of or seen or had presented in a favourable light, then it is not a free choice is it?

*shrug* There's a lot of things in life we only have one choice on. Having such a diverse background, they will see many doors and choose one when they feel ready to. Hence, I disagree with you on this statement: "Your daughter is who she is regardless of where she comes from, regardless of your beliefs and heritage, regardless of who you are."

People aren't raised in a bubble. We are who we are because of who we were. If I weren't Texan, I'm pretty sure neither would my children be. ;)

No. I would have her be herself, whatever it is that she wishes to be. If she is too young to decide, then she is too young to worry about it.

Most people under 30 are too young to decide what they wish to be. I couldn't any more ask my 10 year old to decide her faith then I could ask her to decide her career path or which college she wants to go to.

However, if I notice a particular talent for, say, writing or music, I would be remiss in my duties as a parent to not encourage that talent as much as humanly possible. Not coercing or forcing, but encouraging. If I can do it with music, I can do it with Islam.

An open mind becomes an open sewer without proper guidance.

(Soory about the delay, Jolt messed me around.)

It's in cahouts with algebra ....

- Drive a car? : 18

- Own a gun? : 13 in the countryside (for hunting only)
18 for any reason besides hunting

- Drink alcohol? : Served @ home with a meal? whenever
Beer & Wine, @ restaurants etc. 14
Buy it wherever: 16 for wine and Beer, 18 for Hard Liquor

- Vote? : 16

- Have consensual sex? : 14 (already the case where I live)

- Marry? : 18

- Be considered adults? : 25

Ok ... so you believe it's perfectly acceptable to be openly Atheist?

OH NOES! NOT ATHIESM! Because, as we all know, we're here on Earth to make judgements and enforce God's law. Or what, are there some crazies who think he's going to have some sort of day of reckoning where he orts us all out or something?

I don't believe religion is the right thing to force on children, because it can give them some very skewed perspectives. However, I understand and accept that there is no moral nor legal way of preventing it, so I simply have to suck it up and deal.

ROFL!! You don't have kids ... do you. The average 8 year old would drink battery acid right out of the car battery if they could lift it. "Find out for themselves" ... oh that's rich.

The average eight year old? Wow. You must know some goddamn stupid 8 year olds, because all the kids I know grew out of that kind of stupidity about three years before that. Also, there's a big difference between allowing a kid to play with dangerous physical objects, and allowing a kid to think about metaphysical or philosophical issues. Except, of course, that religion has a lot of fun condemning thought.

However, if I notice a particular talent for, say, writing or music, I would be remiss in my duties as a parent to not encourage that talent as much as humanly possible. Not coercing or forcing, but encouraging. If I can do it with music, I can do it with Islam.

But one does not, surely, have a 'talent' for Islam? Indeed surely if one has a talent for anything to do with religion, it would be for deep and considered independent thought and original interpretations of religious texts?

- Drive a car? : 18
- Own a gun? : 13 in the countryside (for hunting only)
18 for any reason besides hunting
- Drink alcohol? : Served @ home with a meal? whenever
Beer & Wine, @ restaurants etc. 14
Buy it wherever: 16 for wine and Beer, 18 for Hard Liquor
- Vote? : 16
- Have consensual sex? : 14 (already the case where I live)
- Marry? : 18
- Be considered adults? : 25
OK, I know you're a REAL Canadian just by reading that. LOL
I agree 100% with this list; it all makes a lot of sense. Except maybe for the car thing. At 16 it's nice to drive a car; you can go to your summer job and visit friends.

But one does not, surely, have a 'talent' for Islam? Indeed surely if one has a talent for anything to do with religion, it would be for deep and considered independent thought and original interpretations of religious texts?

And if I never expose them to the texts, how are they supposed to show that they have the ability of considered and indepent thought and original interpretation? Hrmmmmm?

You might also want to realise that you're speaking now to an extremely liberal Muslim. One who fights for the rights of gays to marry, wants to abolish hadith, demands the legalisation of marijuana for medical and recreational use, and would take up arms to defend a woman's right to choose when it comes to pregnancy .... and can back it all up with Qur'an and Torah ... those scarey religious texts you want me to hide in a closet away from my children. ;)

Texts that *billions* of people rely on for moral judgement.

My children don't wish to listen to me lecture them on why not to pull the cat's tail either, but I don't ask them, I tell them. I'm the parent, not them.
Which portion of society would disagree with you about pulling the cat's tail? Where you are teaching (indoctrinating with agreed ideas) then consent is not required. However it was you that said
I'd have to go with a depends. I do believe I have the right to say my particular fairy tale is the truth to anyone who wishes to listen.
It now appears that you are extending this beyond just those that are willing to listen.

*shrug* There's a lot of things in life we only have one choice on.
*shrug* Lots of people die of malnutrition in the world, so why should I do anything about it? That something is wrong in many cases is not a good reason for doing it wrong in one more.

Having such a diverse background, they will see many doors and choose one when they feel ready to. Hence, I disagree with you on this statement: "Your daughter is who she is regardless of where she comes from, regardless of your beliefs and heritage, regardless of who you are."
What diverse background? Their background is not where you came from, it is where they are. You want to pigeonhole your duaghter, to predefine her image of herself in some way, then do so, but don't argue that this is necessary nor argue that it is right. It is neither. It is perpetuating an us vs. them attitude that is the root cause of most racial and religious violence.

People aren't raised in a bubble. We are who we are because of who we were. If I weren't Texan, I'm pretty sure neither would my children be. ;)
I am not a gaucho, nor is my wife, but my son is. How did that happen? Our children are who they are because of their experience. they do not have our experience in some miraculous transfer of perception. No people are not raised in a bubble, nor should they be. However at 10 years old (my son is 9) therer are far more important things in life than religion.

Most people under 30 are too young to decide what they wish to be. I couldn't any more ask my 10 year old to decide her faith then I could ask her to decide her career path or which college she wants to go to.
Are you currently telling her all about one career path to the exclusion of all others? I would guess not. So why are you doing this with religion. Leave her free to decide when she is older, as with the career.

However, if I notice a particular talent for, say, writing or music, I would be remiss in my duties as a parent to not encourage that talent as much as humanly possible. Not coercing or forcing, but encouraging. If I can do it with music, I can do it with Islam.
So your daughter has a particular talent for Islamic belief? What happens if she has a particular talent for downhill skiing? You won't notice, you won't encourage it as you have no idea about it. If your daughter is exposed to as many different activities asa possible, then she will have a good chance of finding what she is good at, what she likes, what she wants to do. If she is only exposed to Blues, how is she going to discover a talent for Jazz? The same with religion. You can encourage one thing yews, but only at the risk of supressing something else that woud have fitted the child better.

An open mind becomes an open sewer without proper guidance.
Nonsense. A sewer is a closed and canalized system of thought. An open mind has its dark parts but it includes all the beauty as well. The sewer of directed thought has just the dark parts.

- Drive a car? 18

- Own a gun? never

- Drink alcohol? I propose that it be de-legislated altogether, so we'd get more of a 'whatever' attitude towards drink, as in southern Europe, 'cos they're drinking wine at dinner by 10, so there's no pedestal to put it on. In the UK, once you're 18 you go mad 'cos you've been waiting so long, and that's how our unhealthy national drinking habit started.

- Vote? 16

- Have consensual sex? 16

- Marry? 21

- Be considered adults? 21

Car - 16
Gun - Never
Booze - 18
Vote - 18
Sex - 18
Marriage - 30 (you'd be stupid to do it sooner)
Adult - never if you're lucky! No, you're an adult by 18.

Drive a car? - 12
Own a gun? - 12
Drink alcohol? - 12
Vote? - 12
Have consensual sex? - 12
Marry? - 12
Be considered adults? - 12

Why 12 you ask? Well lets look back when you were all 12. Thats when you started to believe you were the most responsible person alive. You were the center of the universe. If somebody handed you the keys to the world, it would run perfectly. Except nobody, not even your parents recognized that. No, you weren't allowed to do anything when you were 12. Whenever you tried to rebel you got pused down further. (Don't try to deny it, this happenned to just about all of us).

Well see if we lower the age of everything 12 year olds think they can handle to 12 years old it'll give em' a taste of the real world. Now some might say this will just screw the system up but it won't.

Driving a car at age 12. Most can't see over the steering wheel. Plus they'd need a job to buy a car and pay for insurance. (They're all grown up, can't drive mommy and daddy's car).

Own a gun at age 12. Again they'd need a job to pay for a gun. And because they are adults they know the rules when it comes to gun ownership. You shoot somebody you go to jail.

Drink alcohol at age 12. Well A) some countries allow this already and B) I know when I had my first drink it tasted terrible. And 12 year olds don't like things that taste bad. Give em' a beer and they won't touch another for a while.

Vote at age 12. Ha, remember they're 12, try getting them to clean their room much less vote. The ones who do vote? Well they are most likely the responsible kids who actually do something for society. You know, the ones start fundraisers for charity and stuff.

Have consenual sex at age 12. Like they know how to do it...Their hormones are raging. If they feel they are responsible for sex then they can also be parents as well.

Marry at age 12. Well then they can also live away from home as well. Yes that means the couple can go out and get full time jobs to pay for their apartment as well as their car and their gun. As they are married as well they'll have a baby too. That all costs money, time and responsiblity which of course no 12 year old has.

Be considered adults at age 12. All of the above.

Drink alcohol at age 12. Well A) some countries allow this already and B) I know when I had my first drink it tasted terrible. And 12 year olds don't like things that taste bad. Give em' a beer and they won't touch another for a while.

LOL my father did just that with beer, when I was 10. I hated it. I haven't touched a beer before I was 15. Not bad for a Quebecois. LOL

But wine and punch, I had them since 12 years old. It's part of any good meal, and anyway people always drink no more than 2 glasses. It's easy; 4 persons for 1 bottle of wine, nothing more. That's how they drink in southern Europe too.

At what age should our citizens be allowed to...

- Drive a car? 16

- Own a gun? 16

- Drink alcohol? 21

- Vote? 21

- Have consensual sex? 16

- Marry? 20

- Be considered adults? 21


Is there any way to harmonize a few of these, or should they be chosen independently?

Indepenedently. I think the voting age should be raised to 21 again, because at eighteen, most people are still living as dependents of someone else and haven't had to deal with the real world yet-it's easier to be a demagogue when you aren't taking the 'hit' yourself.
OTOH: Sixteen is when most people are physically mature enough to not-be-injured in consensual relations, and it's old enough that there is the beginnings of undestanding what 'consequences' are.

20 is, imho, the bottom rung of ages for marraige, because it's barely enough time for a person to realize what they want (besides not having to date to get sex!)

Alcohol, by its very nature, impairs judgement. The less judgement there is, the more impaired a given user is.

Firearms don't impair judgement. Unlike Alky (which kills braincells and impairs mental development), the more familiarity with them, and the safety rules/legal consequences a person is, the safer he or she is in handling them. Sixteen is an age where reason is taking root in most folks, a piece of responsibility at sixteen can yeild a very responsible citizen at 21... or weed otu the morons by then.

Driving: same argument as guns. Moreso, because the longer you drive, the better you are at driving safely (all other things being equal). The main issue with driving, is a person's ability to see over the dashboard and control the vehicle reliably. Most sixteen-year-olds are finished growing, they're as big as they are going to get (on average), and the age of reason is allegedly taking hold as well, so a sixteen-year-old isn't as likely to drive stupid as, say, a twelve-year-old.
(not that we don't have forty-year-olds who shouldn't be allowed to drive-there are plentiful stupid drivers out there, just ask any ABATE member.)

At what age should our citizens be allowed to...

- Drive a car?

- Own a gun?

- Drink alcohol?

- Vote?

- Have consensual sex?

- Marry?

- Be considered adults?

Is there any way to harmonize a few of these, or should they be chosen independently?

They should be able to do all those things whenever they are ready for them. Can't make a law out of something so hard to implement, but it's a standard that makes sense.

It now appears that you are extending this beyond just those that are willing to listen.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this matter. My take on it is that I basically own my children until whatever legality has decided they're adults.

I tell them when to go to bed, I determine when they eat and what they eat (because I do 95% of the cooking), I tell them when to clean their room, I tell them when to do their homework, I control their TV veiwing and computer usage, I decide whether or not they can have friends over to the house, I decide whether or not they can participate in after school activities, I even sometimes decide when an outfit is not appropriate for the occasion.

There is very, very little in my children's lives that I don't control. Why should teaching about God be any different?

At what age should our citizens be allowed to...

- Drive a car (on public roads)? When tested competent

- Own a gun? When your parents think you are responsible enough/when presented one. To Purchase a gun: When you have enough money and are living in a residence amicable to firearms ownership. To carry a gun (in public): See above + when the situation warrants

- Drink alcohol? See "guns"

- Vote? Any time after being able to explain the constitutional roll of government in a free society. The more you write, the lower your score.

- Have consensual sex? When you can remember to use birth control EVERY TIME.

- Marry? When you can understand contract law and sign a contract.

- Be considered adults? When you can understand contract law and sign a contract.
Is there any way to harmonize a few of these, or should they be chosen independently?The only way to harmonize them is to mandate an arbitrary age... which I would have to base on earliest permissable age of military service... say, 17.

At what age should our citizens be allowed to...

- Drive a car?

- Own a gun?

- Drink alcohol?

- Vote?

- Have consensual sex?

- Marry?

- Be considered adults?

Is there any way to harmonize a few of these, or should they be chosen independently?

16 to drive by yourself, 15 1/2 to drive with adult in car.

18

18

18

No opinion

18

18

They should be able to do all those things whenever they are ready for them. Can't make a law out of something so hard to implement, but it's a standard that makes sense.
My post took longer to write... PTHBLTH! :D

The more you write, the lower your score.


Lol! Brilliant. :D

- Drive a car? 16

- Own a gun? never

- Drink alcohol? 16

- Vote? 16

- Have consensual sex? 14

- Marry? 16

- Be considered adults? 16

How in God's creation can you consider a 16 year old an adult? They aren't nearly competent enough to make their own decision. They don't have the mental capacity to make all their own decisions. It'd be an atrocity to consider someone who is 16 an adult. (By the way, I AM 16, and I know that I'm not old enough to make my own decisions.)

Drive- 16

Own a gun- 21

Drink-21

Vote- 21

Sex - 16

Marry - 18

Adult- 18

That's a great idea.
But I'd say: mandatory driving test (written and road) every 4 or 5 years.
Plus, annual vehicle inspection. No more shitmobiles. :rolleyes:

we already have annual inspections in the US :P

we already have annual inspections in the US :P

We don't in South Dakota

[QUOTE=Sarkasis]At what age should our citizens be allowed to...

- Drive a car? 16 i guess you should have evolved enough then

- Own a gun? as soon as you can pull the trigger "snicker" nah 14 perhaps unless there is a war coming then you could lower the age to 8

- Drink alcohol? 14 for buying alcohol, whose to stop you from drinking it?

- Vote? 16 atleast preferably earlier

- Have consensual sex? no age requirments

- Marry? 13

- Be considered adults? when you have fulfilled two of the above things.
buyed alcohol, had sex, married, have a car, owning a gun or have voted.

as for me never ever

At what age should our citizens be allowed to...

- Drive a car?

- Own a gun?

- Drink alcohol?

- Vote?

- Have consensual sex?

- Marry?

- Be considered adults?

Is there any way to harmonize a few of these, or should they be chosen independently?
Drive a car-between the ages 24-50.
Own a gun-at any age, but a gun saftey test should be required and then you a gun ownership liscense
Drink alcohol-10 years of age at least
Vote-any age, as long as they pass a REQUIRED political knowledge test
Have consensual sex-Any age if it's consensual!
Marry-18 years, younger w/ parent's permission
Be considered adults-18 years

Slight amendment to my thought on gun ownership.

Own: With parental consent, any age where a safety course can be passed.
Concealed or Open Carry: Legal adult, safety course, special license.

A note about consensual sex.

In Quebec, the law states that any person that is less than 14 years old doesn't have anough maturity to fully understand what is sex and what it implies. Thus, consent is not considered possible at that age, even in the case of "mutual consent" between two young persons. I agree that some persons may be more matures than others at the same age, but 14 as a "cut off" age seems reasonable enough.

Legally, consent implies understanding and free choice. Which shouldn't be taken for granted in the case of a your teenager. So that's why I wrote "consensual sex". I could have written "legal sex", it's the same thing I guess.

Another detail: Teenagers between 14 and 17 years old, unless their parents know & agree. But that's a theory.

And you're not supposed to have sex between a 18+ and a 14-17... although around the "adulthood boundary", people just let it be.

PS: Nobody wrote "only after marriage" yet, I'm surprised! LOL
PS(2): And nobody wrote "only during marriage", which would be a funny one actually.

<snip>PS: Nobody wrote "only after marriage" yet, I'm surprised! LOL
PS(2): And nobody wrote "only during marriage", which would be a funny one actually.
Why do you find that strange? The way you phrased your Topic and Questions would not generally lead to the typical Religious Troll to respond to it. The rest of us are far enough "south" on the Swimmingpool Scale to post to our Hornyness. :D

Maybe someone like Greenlander will post :rolleyes: ... but I doubt it.

At what age should our citizens be allowed to...

- Drive a car?

- Own a gun?

- Drink alcohol?

- Vote?

- Have consensual sex?

- Marry?

- Be considered adults?

Is there any way to harmonize a few of these, or should they be chosen independently?
15-16 for all except alcohol use...there should be no age limit on drug or alcohol consumption.

- Drive a car? 17, and by that I mean driving alone with no parents. With non-drivers in the car, 19, and with friends, 18

- Own a gun? Don't know

- Drink alcohol? Err.... 1 and a half?

- Vote? 16

- Have consensual sex? Err.... 14, but not with someone more than two years older until 17

- Marry? 17

- Be considered adults? 22 (college graduation)