NationStates Jolt Archive

I honestly don't know enough about it to say either way, however from what I've heard, it seems rather cult-ish to me.

Your thoughts?

Where do you draw the line between cult and legitimate religion? If you try to leave scientology you will likely be harassed and possibly sued repetedly in order to punish and silence you. That seems cultish. Islam, however, is widely considered a legitimate religion, but in some backward parts of the world your family and your village will kill you if you renounce Islam. How can you call one a cult and the other a religion?

I think you should delete this thread. *paranoid looks around* They are notorious for suing the pants off of non-scientologists who talk about them, especially those that dare suggest that they are a cult.

Be careful, Tom Cruise might yell at you.

From what I've heard, in general and from people who've had discussions with scientologists in CA, it's pretty damned cultish. But it's also a legitimate religion. I really don't think there's much of a difference between cult and religion, except religions call religions they don't like cults.

I have problems with their mingling in the economy. The Protestant Youth Group that I did volonteer work for made extra sure they weren't buying anything made by them.
Narconon, their drug abusers rehab program, seems more like a scam targeting worried parents.

From what I've heard, in general and from people who've had discussions with scientologists in CA, it's pretty damned cultish. But it's also a legitimate religion. I really don't think there's much of a difference between cult and religion, except religions call religions they don't like cults.
I'd draw the line when members are indoctrinated to obey every whim of the leader(ship) or if its sole dedication is exploiting its members. Usually a combination of both separates cult from religion.

Where do you draw the line between cult and legitimate religion?

Well personally I draw the line when a "religion" tells you for a mere 300-500 k you can achieve "level 7" of their "religion" and have your alien chip removed..

How about you?

Hey when you hear there is no such thing as a chemical emblance or that post pardom can be treated with vitamins?

Can't be all bad! [/sarcasm]

Well personally I draw the line when a "religion" tells you for a mere 300-500 k you can achieve "level 7" of their "religion" and have your alien chip removed..

How about you?
I like my alien chip. It's staying right here where it belongs. Works great as a garage door opener.

Is that so different from TV preachers who say that for a donation you'll recieve a "prayer cloth" to heal your illnesses, or god will guarantee you riches if you tithe to them? Is it any different from the Catholic church selling indulgences in ages past?

I like my alien chip. It's staying right here where it belongs. Works great as a garage door opener.

LMAO! hahaha, good one! :D

I think you should delete this thread. *paranoid looks around* They are notorious for suing the pants off of non-scientologists who talk about them, especially those that dare suggest that they are a cult.


Posh. (I dun kno wut that word meens lol)

First Amendment 4 lyfe

It is most definetely a cult.

Be careful, Tom Cruise might yell at you.


I saw a clip from Tom Cruise's interview with Matt Lauer. Matt Lauer has to be one of the softest, feel-good interviews around.

Some how, Tom Cruise managed to make it a beligerant confrontation. I guess part of scientology is not to be the slightest bit tolerant of anything else? Or is that when a performer gains a certain level of success-riches, fame-that they become a total asshole?

I used to like him, but after seeing his dirty haired, wild eyed abuse of Matt Lauer, I say F him.

I would protest the idea that there's any objective difference between a 'legitimate' religion and a cult, but I really can't make that argument with a straight face regarding scientology. It's a cult, but it's not like a typical cult. Scientology is a scam, a philosophy, and a bizzare mythology. That it is taken seriously at all by anyone puzzles me. I sometimes wonder just what is going on there.

I saw a clip from Tom Cruise's interview with Matt Lauer. Matt Lauer has to be one of the softest, feel-good interviews around.

Some how, Tom Cruise managed to make it a beligerant confrontation. I guess part of scientology is not to be the slightest bit tolerant of anything else? Or is that when a performer gains a certain level of success-riches, fame-that they become a total asshole?

I used to like him, but after seeing his dirty haired, wild eyed abuse of Matt Lauer, I say F him.
That interview was great! Remember when Tom Cruise insisted that Matt Lauer knew nothing of the history of psychiatry wheras Tom "Risky Business" Cruise was an expert on the subject?

Is that so different from TV preachers who say that for a donation you'll recieve a "prayer cloth" to heal your illnesses, or god will guarantee you riches if you tithe to them? Is it any different from the Catholic church selling indulgences in ages past?

Ok, we'll make a compromise. Televangelists are cults too.

Hell, the founder tried to abort his son with a clothes hanger. That and when the leaders won't talk to reporters about things says a lot.

That interview was great! Remember when Tom Cruise insisted that Matt Lauer knew nothing of the history of psychiatry wheras Tom "Risky Business" Cruise was an expert on the subject?

Yes, I'm sure Tom Cruise is an expert in the field... his prestigious degrees in Psychiatry clearly show it. :rolleyes:

Did he even graduate college? A lot of actors/actresses didn't, yet they berate those who disagree with their "educated" viewpoint.

I saw a clip from Tom Cruise's interview with Matt Lauer. Matt Lauer has to be one of the softest, feel-good interviews around.

Some how, Tom Cruise managed to make it a beligerant confrontation. I guess part of scientology is not to be the slightest bit tolerant of anything else? Or is that when a performer gains a certain level of success-riches, fame-that they become a total asshole?

I used to like him, but after seeing his dirty haired, wild eyed abuse of Matt Lauer, I say F him.

Not to mention his jackass know-what's-better-for-you-than-you-do approach to life. Jerk ass needs to stay out of other people's business.

That interview was great! Remember when Tom Cruise insisted that Matt Lauer knew nothing of the history of psychiatry wheras Tom "Risky Business" Cruise was an expert on the subject?

Dont' forget that scientology also has technology that cures dsylexia as well.

Tom said he had it once.

I would protest the idea that there's any objective difference between a 'legitimate' religion and a cult, but I really can't make that argument with a straight face regarding scientology. It's a cult, but it's not like a typical cult. Scientology is a scam, a philosophy, and a bizzare mythology. That it is taken seriously at all by anyone puzzles me. I sometimes wonder just what is going on there.
Like I said before, I think when it comes to exploiting members, a religion becomes a cult. There are good examples of cult groups in Christianity, while Christianity itself pretty much remains a religion.

I like my alien chip. It's staying right here where it belongs. Works great as a garage door opener.

Is that so different from TV preachers who say that for a donation you'll recieve a "prayer cloth" to heal your illnesses, or god will guarantee you riches if you tithe to them? Is it any different from the Catholic church selling indulgences in ages past?

Aliens who tried to put a chip in me suffered a horrible end.

Well anyway the selling of indulgences was more of a corrupted form, in truth it was more of a free thing that people normally gave donations to the church afterwards. I never heard of this prayer cloth that will heal illnesses, or whatever.

What is scientology or whatever tis called.

Dont' forget that scientology also has technology that cures dsylexia as well.

Tom said he had it once.

Was this intentional, or do you also need to be cured by Scientology? ;)

Officialy (IE: According to US law, I think) Scientology is an official religion, because it has +10,000 followers, or something.
IMO, its a cult made up by a guy who was a crappy author.

Well personally I draw the line when a "religion" tells you for a mere 300-500 k you can achieve "level 7" of their "religion" and have your alien chip removed..

How about you?
This guy (http://www.newsregister.com/news/story.cfm?story_no=193580) will do it for free, but he has a long waiting list.

Be careful, Tom Cruise might yell at you.
When I have to look downward to talk to someone, I tend to be less afraid of them. He's a nut who obviously needs some therapy, which he shuns...

Dont' forget that scientology also has technology that cures dsylexia as well.

Tom said he had it once.

And then he was cured by rich people who told him he didn't need to read, because they'd tell him everything he was supposed to think. Oh, and he should take some vitamins.

There's a list of questions for some Scientology thing here (http://www.livejournal.com/users/trollprincess/756224.html), and a set of sample answers here (http://www.livejournal.com/users/active_apathy/22142.html). Note that the answers are less than serious.

When I have to look downward to talk to someone, I tend to be less afraid of them. He's a nut who obviously needs some therapy, which he shuns...

Oh, yes. Doesn't anyone else think it's interesting that the first thing that Scientology tells you to watch out for is psychiatrists? I wonder why that might be...

That it is taken seriously at all by anyone puzzles me. I sometimes wonder just what is going on there.

me too. it isn't even a particularly well written scifi story.

I saw a clip from Tom Cruise's interview with Matt Lauer. Matt Lauer has to be one of the softest, feel-good interviews around.

Some how, Tom Cruise managed to make it a beligerant confrontation. I guess part of scientology is not to be the slightest bit tolerant of anything else? Or is that when a performer gains a certain level of success-riches, fame-that they become a total asshole?

I used to like him, but after seeing his dirty haired, wild eyed abuse of Matt Lauer, I say F him.
If you do a search for "Tom Cruise rant" on google, you can find the entire thing. I just did earlier today and that's in part what brought on this discussion.

Does anyone actually know a lot about scientology? One of my friends from highschool went to interview the head of the scientology church in Toronto and she got the impression that it wasn't a real religion...

I honestly don't know enough about it to say either way, however from what I've heard, it seems rather cult-ish to me.

Your thoughts?
Scientology is as legitimate as any religion. Which is crazier, the theory that an alien dictator detonated thermonuclear weapons that left hundreds of billions of thetans without bodies so that they then began to infect human individuals, or the theory that an all-powerful and all-good God impregnated a 14-year-old girl to produce a half-human son who would then be tortured to death in order to redeem humanity from their ancestors' sin of taking dietary advice from a talking snake?

If you do a search for "Tom Cruise rant" on google, you can find the entire thing. I just did earlier today and that's in part what brought on this discussion.

Does anyone actually know a lot about scientology? One of my friends from highschool went to interview the head of the scientology church in Toronto and she got the impression that it wasn't a real religion...


I admit I know very little about scientology. Unfortunately, the little I've heard has spewed from Tom cruise and John Travolta. Two people who act for a living, which I dont really hold in very high esteem, but some do.

I dont question other people's beliefs until they are insisting mine are wrong. Follow whatever you like, but dont try to impress me by hitting me over the head with it.

Scientology is as legitimate as any religion. Which is crazier, the theory that an alien dictator detonated thermonuclear weapons that left hundreds of billions of thetans without bodies so that they then began to infect human individuals, or the theory that an all-powerful and all-good God impregnated a 14-year-old girl to produce a half-human son who would then be tortured to death in order to redeem humanity from their ancestors' sin of taking dietary advice from a talking snake?

Actually, Original Sin was made up after the Gospels. Jesus never mentions it, and the Jews don't believe in it.

At least Christians by and large aren't brainwashed (SBC exempted, Relig. Right exempted) and stalked by members of Scientology to help "guide" them in to their "religion".

That interview was great! Remember when Tom Cruise insisted that Matt Lauer knew nothing of the history of psychiatry wheras Tom "Risky Business" Cruise was an expert on the subject?


I was amazed because I guess I never thought of Tom Cruise as being such a condescending douche. He kept talking over Matt saying "Matt, Matt" which often used as a belittling tactic.

His dirty hair and the sunken, crazed eyes wrapped it up for me. I dont know what his problem is, but it may be coming to a head.

I was amazed because I guess I never thought of Tom Cruise as being such a condescending douche. He kept talking over Matt saying "Matt, Matt" which often used as a belittling tactic.

His dirty hair and the sunken, crazed eyes wrapped it up for me. I dont know what his problem is, but it may be coming to a head.
I can't wait to see him self-destruct. I hope it happens on live TV. I've never liked his acting, and now I don't like his attitude either.

Go ahead Tom, screech your wise rants at us poor unbeleivers. That's must see TV.

I can't wait to see him self-destruct. I hope it happens on live TV. I've never liked his acting, and now I don't like his attitude either.

Go ahead Tom, screech your wise rants at us poor unbeleivers. That's must see TV.

When's the last time he had a really good movie? Top Gun in 1986 (goodness debatable)?

Does anyone actually know a lot about scientology?
Not really. Most of what people know about the workings of Scientology comes from people who defected, so to speak. They naturally tend not to have been very high up in the organization, so very little is actually known about it. The basis of Scientology is found in the book Dianetics. Scientology is also the only religion I know of that has a list of all its enemies, separated into different categories.

I dont question other people's beliefs until they are insisting mine are wrong. Follow whatever you like, but dont try to impress me by hitting me over the head with it.

But you can be saved by a close, personal relationship with the Invisible Pink Unicorn... and a fanatical distrust of psychiatrists. And behold, the Invisible Pink Unicorn did send forth a Prophet, in the form of a Radioactive Space Monkey, to preach the Holy Words of chocolate and coffee as the keys to an everlasting life after we leave the mortal world.

could someone explain the basics of scientology for a poor idiot like myself..?

could someone explain the basics of scientology for a poor idiot like myself..?


Yes, but only after you pay me $500,000.

Yes, but only after you pay me $500,000.
There ya have it kids. The basics of scientology.

Yes, but only after you pay me $500,000.

Fool! It's $1,000,000 for the Transcendental Christ-Consciousness Level 7 of the Moon (I think I hit at least three cults)! Now the mother ship will never come and teach us how to clone humans!

Scientology is most definitely a cult...and a dangerous cult at that.

http://www.xenu.net/

Definately a cult. People Magazine circa 1977 thinks so. Just saw this cover thought it was timely.

1977 People Magazine Cover (http://www.sandcrawler.com/SWB/Images/StarWars/Magazines/mag-people-19780814.jpg)

There ya have it kids. The basics of scientology.


Maybe we'd be better off joining madonna in the Kabalahlahlah...


Start as a whore and become one of the cultural elite.

Definately a cult. People Magazine circa 1977 thinks so. Just saw this cover thought it was timely.

1977 People Magazine Cover (http://www.sandcrawler.com/SWB/Images/StarWars/Magazines/mag-people-19780814.jpg)


scientology is a little creepy. So is having access to a 30 yr old issue of People.

Scientology is most definitely a cult...and a dangerous cult at that.

http://www.xenu.net/


Holy...
Shit.

Holy...
Shit.
Yep. Just read through all that evidence. There's some severely evil and scary shit in there.

I have decided I'm going to delve into this Scientology. I'm far too thick skulled to be brain washed, and if I am, well Hell I won't care now will I? I wonder if there's an organization in my area.

Oh Hell's bells, there's not a one within a hundred miles.

Scientology: Cult or legitimate religion?

Scientology: as exciting as coprology.

Yep. Just read through all that evidence. There's some severely evil and scary shit in there.

Wow. If there was ever a convincing example of the Anti-Christ, Hubbard would be it. This guy is evil, plain and simple.

gold digging cult

Ihatevacations']gold digging cult

A gold digging cult with aspirations of world domination that falsifies criminal records to eliminate its enemies and whose founder advocates purging those with disabilities and "subnormal" intelligence according to Scientology standards.

even if i dont do Religion debate...

I will break my policy this time...and say I dont see it as a religion.

BTW
yes I do like Tom Cruise movies...and yes I liked EarthBattleGround (SP?)

even if i dont do Religion debate...

I will break my policy this time...and say I dont see it as a religion.

78.48% percent of the people polled agree with you on this one. :)

78.48% percent of the people polled agree with you on this one. :)good.

how about Tom Cruise? :D

Scientology is most definitely a cult...and a dangerous cult at that.

http://www.xenu.net/
I was beginningg to wonder if I was the only SP here who knew about Xenu... :p

L Ron's Greatest Hits (http://xenu.net/archive/infopack/5.htm)

Xenu Rules All! (http://xenu.net/archive/leaflet/xenuleaf.htm)

Remember - "How do you steam a clam? Make fun of his Religion." Johnny Carson :D

good.

how about Tom Cruise? :D

Not overall, but he's had several good ones. :(

I would love to see a bloody war erupt between the Scientologists and the Kabbala.

I would love to see a bloody war erupt between the Scientologists and the Kabbala.

There would be no Hollywood left. Good or bad depending on you view of them. ;)

I don't really care either way, but I KNOW they are MISINFORMED, DO NOT the whole story of what they are talking about, and are NARROW MINDED.

As they say, a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.

I don't really care either way, but I KNOW they are MISINFORMED, DO NOT the whole story of what they are talking about, and are NARROW MINDED.

As they say, a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Pseudoscience is the most dangerous of all, and Scientology is it's best example.

Silly Scientologists,

Sanity is for humans.

My dad's friend's mom converted to scientology. She sold her house, and everything she owned, and disappeared for awhile. They found her in florida working on a boat, she was penniless.

There would be no Hollywood left. Good or bad depending on you view of them. ;)

Two cults filled with vapid condescending celebrities wiping each other out? Sounds like a win-win situation to me.

Two cults filled with vapid condescending celebrities wiping each other out? Sounds like a win-win situation to me.

Maybe we'll get some good movies instead of XXX 2 and Jason X! :rolleyes:

here's a relatively objective report on scientology,
with a good list of pro/con sites

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology

there is definately some craaazy shit going on in the US
(and i'm sure there is here too :) )
btw i think from my extensive web-based reading 2 days ago on both the official sites and non-official sites on scientology, its a cult

Two cults filled with vapid condescending celebrities wiping each other out? Sounds like a win-win situation to me.
Only Kabbala isn't so much a cult as a Jewish occult tradition pretty much as old as the religion itself. Though I highly doubt Madonna is a serious practitioner and even moreso that those who are would consider her as such and allow her to learn anything beyond the basics of their teachings, so the Hollywood version of Kabbala could probably be considered as such...

here's a relatively objective report on scientology,
with a good list of pro/con sites

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology

there is definately some craaazy shit going on in the US
(and i'm sure there is here too :) )
btw i think from my extensive web-based reading 2 days ago on both the official sites and non-official sites on scientology, its a cult

As much as I love wikipedia, it's hardly easily called objective.

Only Kabbala isn't so much a cult as a Jewish occult tradition pretty much as old as the religion itself. Though I highly doubt Madonna is a serious practitioner and even moreso that those who are would consider her as such and allow her to learn anything beyond the basics of their teachings, so the Hollywood version of Kabbala could probably be considered as such...

Their Kabbala is a kind of rip-off labeled as such because it borrows liberally from Jewish mysticism. The true stuff is only understood by the highest levels of Jewish scholars and rabbis (apparently there are all kinds of spells and conjurations)

Silly Scientologists

I see that saying's getting a bit of exercise.

As much as I love wikipedia, it's hardly easily called objective.

I think you'll generally find it is. With fairly controversial articles, for example, you'll see both sides of the argument edit and discuss until they come to a reasonable, neutral, objective article. Giving everyone the power to edit things until they're all satisfied with it is, in many ways, the ultimate way of ensuring objectivity.

I see that saying's getting a bit of exercise.

Yes but it flows so well.

Silly Scientologists Silly Scientologists Silly Scientologists Silly Scientologists :p ;)

It's like the Freemasons, only less of a secret society and more of Satanic cult.

Cult...cult..CULT!
Because the Holy Catholic Church says it is!

Cult...cult..CULT!
Because the Holy Catholic Church says it is!

That would be awesome, the Empire... er the Catholic Church gearing its vast resources to grind Scientology into dust.

Their Kabbala is a kind of rip-off labeled as such because it borrows liberally from Jewish mysticism. The true stuff is only understood by the highest levels of Jewish scholars and rabbis (apparently there are all kinds of spells and conjurations)
Yeah, I pretty much expected it to be a rip-off, I mean occult tradition + celebrities = seriously compromised. That'd be kinda like the government giving a reporter access to classified files and expecting them not to write a story about what they've learned...

Most religions were referred to as cults when they were new and small, Christianity included. It's considered scary because it's new and other religious are ingrained in society. Jewish myths include people magically parting rivers and summoning plagues. Christianity is about god impregnating a woman so her son can be executed and redeem humanity. The Koran is basically a man writing down the voices he heard in his head. Religion is, if nothing else, silly.

Many people are talking about brain washing. Think about it, Christians go to church from a very young age only to hear the same story every single week and to be preached a dogma (there is a god), and after decades they blindly believe it. At the root of it, most religious people have nothing to go on other than the fact that it's what they've been told their whole lives.

That's brain washing if I ever saw it, just not so direct. In 200 years, if Scientology is still around, I doubt it will still be considered a cult. It will either disappear or become accepted as a religion.

Most religions were referred to as cults when they were new and small, Christianity included. It's considered scary because it's new and other religious are ingrained in society. Jewish myths include people magically parting rivers and summoning plagues. Christianity is about god impregnating a woman so her son can be executed and redeem humanity. The Koran is basically a man writing down the voices he heard in his head. Religion is, if nothing else, silly.

Many people are talking about brain washing. Think about it, Christians go to church from a very young age only to hear the same story every single week and to be preached a dogma (there is a god), and after decades they blindly believe it. At the root of it, most religious people have nothing to go on other than the fact that it's what they've been told their whole lives.

That's brain washing if I ever saw it, just not so direct. In 200 years, if Scientology is still around, I doubt it will still be considered a cult. It will either disappear or become accepted as a religion.

I don't know of most modern religions where paying enormous sums of money are required to reach communion/absolution/enlightenment/etc.

I'd have to say that they're more a "religion for profit."

After all, to paraphrase L. Ron Hubbard (their founder) if you really want to make money, start a religion.

Absolutely a cult. Anyone who says different will be ritually sacrificed to Mobar-Gaz, Dark Bringer of Dark Darkness.

I don't know of most modern religions where paying enormous sums of money are required to reach communion/absolution/enlightenment/etc.

Maybe they're just trying to catch up - after all, the world's richest organisation is a church that's been charging modest tithes for centuries.

Absolutely a cult. Anyone who says different will be ritually sacrificed to Mobar-Gaz, Dark Bringer of Dark Darkness.

So speaks his prophet, Shadowy McShadyson?

What is the difference between a cult and a religion?


......about 300 years.


Every religion started as a cult at one time or another. The history behind christianity is a great example of that.

For the record, I am not compairing christianity with scientology.

I honestly don't know enough about it to say either way, however from what I've heard, it seems rather cult-ish to me.

Your thoughts?

Here are a couple of links that give good defining characteristics of a cult:
http://www.ex-cult.org/General/identifying-a-cult
http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html


I know some Scientologists and have done quite a bit of research. Co$ is a cult. It's notable that LRH (the founder) didn't claim status as a religion until after the IRS got after him and he wanted tax exempt status.

Here are a couple of links that give good defining characteristics of a cult:
http://www.ex-cult.org/General/identifying-a-cult
http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html


I know some Scientologists and have done quite a bit of research. Co$ is a cult. It's notable that LRH (the founder) didn't claim status as a religion until after the IRS got after him and he wanted tax exempt status.
Y'know. By the BITE definition... the Democrat Party could be considered a cult. :eek:

/me runs :p