NationStates Jolt Archive

I've said it before, but I'll say it again.

In the United States of America, the legal age at which you are able to vote, enlist in the military, consent to sex (Federal law, at least), and be able to go places without the legal consent of a guardian is 18.

I reached that age nearly two years ago. That makes me 19 (This year 20, end of August.)

On that day, my mother sat me down and told me, the following:


Happy birthday. You're responsible for your own damn actions, so if you get in trouble with the cops don't be callin' me!


Thanks Mom. I really love your support :rolleyes:

But honestly, its a right of passege. I can no longer go crying to mommy because I'm responsible for myself. I'm an adult, I can take care of myself and I have to take care of myself. Its my resposibility, and nobody elses. Only I am culpable for my actions, and I can't go blaming anyone else. I'm repeating myself, but it bears worth repeating..

I do ask for help from my friends, but I am capable of dealing with my problems without their help - its just easier and gives me a nice warm fuzzy feeling when they help me out, and it tells them that I care about them enough to go to them when things are rough, and that at any time they can come to me and ask for my help.

But because we respect each other, we don't go offering our help when its not asked for - becuase that shows that we think that each of us are not responsible enough to handle their own actions, or act like an adult, or own up to what they've done wrong.

Standard Grown-Up Adult Speech Number Three, right?

Now, here's the question.

Why can't religious people get it through their heads that people are adults, and are thus responsible for themselves, and that if they need help, they'll ask for it. Until they ask for it, religious people have no right to offer it.

I apply the same thing to Jesus Christ, who supposedly died for all our sins. I beleive in God, yes - and I believe thata person named Jesus Christ existed at one time, and possibly did the things that occured in the New Testament that can be accomplished by the mortal hand, and was certainly nailed to a cross for claiming to be the Messiah and otherwise disrupting the life of a community of people.

He died for our sins. Well, Mr. Christ, thank you but no thank you. I believe in God of Abraham, as he was amoung my ancestors (...very indirectly), and I also believe in free will as the first gift, after that of being created, that God gave man.

With free will comes the power to make choices. What also comes with that power is the responsibility to own up to the bad decisions we make, and its my opinion that after I die, no matter what I believe in God will judge my soul based on the choices and decisions I've made, and I will be sent to where I will be accordingly.

In short, save that dieing for my sins for somebody else that will need it far more than me.

I've lied, yes. I've cheated, yes. I've said and done things intending to harm others, yes. I've done things with the intent of angering people, while angry myself, yes. I've passed judgement on others, and I've shown a penchant for wishing for stuff that I cannot have due to financial reasons, and I'm about as slothful as a sloth. As for pride, I've been proud far too many times to count about things I shouldn't have.

The only one of the Seven Deadly Sins I do not admit to is Gluttony. I do love and enjoy food, yes, but not to the point where anyone would call me a glutton.

But I don't think I've done anything evil, just human. But I also admit to all of these acts as my own actions, and when I do die and I stand before God as he is judgeing me, I will admit to every single on of these acts as my own responsibility, and mine alone. Becuase I'm an adult, and I'm my own responsibility, and nobody elses.

What, no comments? O.o;

What, no comments? O.o;
Well... you're right. Not much to add really.

Well... you're right. Not much to add really.

I know, but whenever I flame or spam or do something funny, people quote me. But whenever I say something serious, nobody pays me any attention. O.o;

That and there's a weakness built into the arguement and I'm waiting for someone to spot it.

That and I want to see how people like Neo Rogolia respond to this. She didn't when I said it before.

I'm already spending so much time in two other threads, I would have to clone myself or something to do it all lol. ;)

I'm already spending so much time in two other threads, I would have to clone myself or something to do it all lol. ;)

Which is why I quit "12 Reasons".

Thats nearly 80 pages in less than two days. @.@ I can't keep up and I'm just READING.

--==|Edit|==--

Forgot, I WOULD like your take on this.

Which is why I quit "12 Reasons".

Thats nearly 80 pages in less than two days. @.@ I can't keep up and I'm just READING.

--==|Edit|==--

Forgot, I WOULD like your take on this.



The OP is a little long, could you paraphrase it for tonight? I'll get around to reading it in its entirety tommorow.

The OP is a little long, could you paraphrase it for tonight? I'll get around to reading it in its entirety tommorow.

Translation:

"I'm a big boy and I don't need to run to Uncle Jesus so that all the sins will be abolished so I can go to heaven."

Translation:

"I'm a big boy and I don't need to run to Uncle Jesus so that all the sins will be abolished so I can go to heaven."



Ok, which is why I'm an advocate of civil unions with equal rights (minus those given for having children or the potential of children). Marriage is where I draw the line.

<snip>
Standard Grown-Up Adult Speech Number Three, right?

Now, here's the question.

Why can't religious people get it through their heads that people are adults, and are thus responsible for themselves, and that if they need help, they'll ask for it. Until they ask for it, religious people have no right to offer it.

Seems pretty squared away to me.

I'm a Christian, parent, and adult who has delivered a reasonable amount of lectures to younger people. I try very hard not to offer unsolicited advice, but it's not easy when you see someone making obvious messes in their life.

I mean, it's so damned inefficient to have people making unnecessary mistakes. I have to bite my tongue sometimes. "You know, Billy, if you drink that whole bottle of gin in 10 minutes you're going to get sick". But I am mute.

But that's why adults lecture kids - they think they know better. And sometimes they actually DO know better.

On a serious note, a young man called here at 2 AM to tell me he cut his wrist and took half a bottle of tylenol. Very drunk. I did offer him some advice.

Ok, which is why I'm an advocate of civil unions with equal rights (minus those given for having children or the potential of children). Marriage is where I draw the line.

Religious marriage? What if a religion says that its okay to marry gays - in that religion?

First admendment says that all religions are equal in the eyes of the law, and can't make laws supporting one or another.

Doesn't matter if one religion is right or not, because it can't be proven either way, and people feel so strongly in it, civil law shouldn't be involved in religion, and vice versa.

Not to say that religion can't influence you to take stands on issues. Religion is a great thing, IMO - if you beleive in it. In place of religion I have a belief in the Rule of Law, which says certain things are illegal and bad and that I can get in trouble for doing them. However, some people prefer the Rule of God, which says they will be punished later (And then after, until eternity ends) for their sins, which is something that goes against God's laws.

*calm voice, imagine a calm voice saying this entire post*

That being said, what did you mean, minus those for children or potential children?

Religious marriage? What if a religion says that its okay to marry gays - in that religion?

First admendment says that all religions are equal in the eyes of the law, and can't make laws supporting one or another.

Doesn't matter if one religion is right or not, because it can't be proven either way, and people feel so strongly in it, civil law shouldn't be involved in religion, and vice versa.

Not to say that religion can't influence you to take stands on issues. Religion is a great thing, IMO - if you beleive in it. In place of religion I have a belief in the Rule of Law, which says certain things are illegal and bad and that I can get in trouble for doing them. However, some people prefer the Rule of God, which says they will be punished later (And then after, until eternity ends) for their sins, which is something that goes against God's laws.

*calm voice, imagine a calm voice saying this entire post*

That being said, what did you mean, minus those for children or potential children?


If I recall correctly, married couples get certain benefits as an incentive to procreate. Or at least I heard they did. That being said, I'm going to bed as I really can't think straight from being so tired.

*Snip*
and when I do die and I stand before God as he is judgeing me, I will admit to every single on of these acts as my own responsibility, and mine alone. Becuase I'm an adult, and I'm my own responsibility, and nobody elses.

Uhhhh huh. You should perhaps add a little footnote saying "and I don't care if I go to hell because of it," or something like "and of course, I'll burn like kindling," or something like that - that'll make a little bit more sense :) at the moment it reads like you're saying that, because you have the responsibility, you aren't responsible for the things you do - which, unless you've noticed this rather obvious thing right there that this is a contradiction offa the top shelves :rolleyes:

*snip*

I mean, it's so damned inefficient to have people making unnecessary mistakes. I have to bite my tongue sometimes. "You know, Billy, if you drink that whole bottle of gin in 10 minutes you're going to get sick". But I am mute.

But that's why adults lecture kids - they think they know better. And sometimes they actually DO know better.


It is inefficient, but so is free will. It'd be more effective for everything if we all subordinated our will to one person and do only what that one person says to do, and nothing else. Ever.

Learning by mistakes is inefficient, but it is also how we grow. If we don't learn from mistakes, we don't actually grow as well as learn. At least, thats my take.

But then again, this is me stating that I am an adult. I'm not a little kid anymore, nor am I a cocky teenager. ...okay, I technically am very cocky at some things, and I'm technically still a teenager for two more months, but thats another story. But I'm not in need of constant guidance anymore, nor should I get such guidance. Children are another story, and while parents should let them make little mistakes, should DEFINATLY prevent them from big ones.

It goes the difference between eating too much candy and getting sick, versus going out on prom night, getting drunk, and then losing your virginity, or your life. Definatly parents should intervine then, its part of parenting...

On a serious note, a young man called here at 2 AM to tell me he cut his wrist and took half a bottle of tylenol. Very drunk. I did offer him some advice.

Because he asked for it. I hope you gave him good advice (I don't know you so well, but it sounds like you would have) and I hope that he listened to you.

Therein is the flaw in my statement: If I need help from others, if I am unable to know or admit I need help, what are others to do? What should happen?

Someone is suicidal, and he's a friend of mine. He's not going to ask me for help, but I'm scared I'm going to lose him. What do I do, offer my unsolicited help?

In a way, yes. Ask them, point blank, about it, and say that you're worried, and that you're there for them, and that no matter what happens that you'll be there for 'em. At least, thats what I'd do. I'm not certain that its the best thing in all cases, and I know its not in a couple...

I'm trying to find a dividing line here, and I can't seem to do it. :-/

If I recall correctly, married couples get certain benefits as an incentive to procreate. Or at least I heard they did. That being said, I'm going to bed as I really can't think straight from being so tired.

...actually, they get a tax break for children, and if they're on government support, that support increases with the ammount of children they have.

Thats because the government doesn't want to take as much money if you have dependants (Which is what the children are from a legal tax code standpoint - and not all dependants are children) that you must take care off (Financially or otherwise).

Thats not really incentive to procreate.

Good for you to take responsibilty of your actions. I totally understand you feeling that you will deal with God when it is time.

As for -"religious people have no right to offer it."- As of now they do have a right to offer it, that I am aware of. But they should leave people alone that tell them they don't want help, require their help or that they are of another faith and don't desire to be converted.

I've never thought it was right for someone to try to "convert" a person they do not know( and are aware that person has their own beliefs) to another belief. When dealing with family or relatives then it gets more complicated. To me that becomes more of a family matter than religion.

It's about respecting the individuals decision and belief. If you have to sway them or "talk them into" a belief it doesn't hold much water for the one talked into it, imo.

I've read books that some people brought to my parents house that guided the one trying to make the individual believe/convert. They were laid out like a telemarketer guide. [If they say so and so.. or quote verse so and so.., you respond with.. so and so.] I really don't think that was a book intended for a n "outsider" or convertee. I immediatly thought that they had given them a book they weren't suppose to.

It sparked an interest in that "religion" or cult as I think of it now. So I found information about the system and talked to some in-laws family members that are in that belief and one of which is an Elder. My first instinct was correct.

<snip>

Because he asked for it. I hope you gave him good advice (I don't know you so well, but it sounds like you would have) and I hope that he listened to you.

Therein is the flaw in my statement: If I need help from others, if I am unable to know or admit I need help, what are others to do? What should happen?

Someone is suicidal, and he's a friend of mine. He's not going to ask me for help, but I'm scared I'm going to lose him. What do I do, offer my unsolicited help?

In a way, yes. Ask them, point blank, about it, and say that you're worried, and that you're there for them, and that no matter what happens that you'll be there for 'em. At least, thats what I'd do. I'm not certain that its the best thing in all cases, and I know its not in a couple...

I'm trying to find a dividing line here, and I can't seem to do it. :-/

See, he didn't ask for it directly. But by calling me he was indirectly asking, and he was relieved that I cared enough about him to offer it.

My feeling is that there are several kinds of advice. One is the finger-wagging lecture and scolding. The other is loving advice and can be couched in terms that aren't offensive and delivered with humility. If done right the recipient may not realize he's been given advice. That's the way to help.

Often advice need not be offered - just a listening ear and a caring heart. Maybe you can help your friend that way.

Uhhhh huh. You should perhaps add a little footnote saying "and I don't care if I go to hell because of it," or something like "and of course, I'll burn like kindling," or something like that - that'll make a little bit more sense :) at the moment it reads like you're saying that, because you have the responsibility, you aren't responsible for the things you do - which, unless you've noticed this rather obvious thing right there that this is a contradiction offa the top shelves :rolleyes:

Nope.

What I'm saying is that because I have the responsibility over my own actions, I and I alone are responsible for my actions, and I will not let anyone take responsibility for them, or try to absolve my sins. Because I did them.

I will go to Heaven or I will go to Hell. I do not know which, and I do not presume to judge with certainty (Although I feel I'm destined for Hell, personally.) what God intends, or what God has seen that I do not.

If God judges that I have sinned to where I must go to Hell, I'll say, "Thank you, God, for your honest Judgement" and I'll go to Hell. Who knows, I might even enjoy it, I've always liked it warm.

If God judges that I have sinned, but I could go to Heaven, I'll say, "Thank you, God, for your honest Judgement," and I'll go to Heaven. Who knows, I might even enjoy it, and might find employment or doing something that'll keep me in touch with the Earth.

Or God may decide to postpone my judgement, in which case I'll sit where I'm told (Or at least stay in the general area, I tend to like to walk around while thinking) until he does Judge me.

I'll pay for my sins after I die. In short, I'll be taken into account for breaking God's Laws when I am in the Kingdom of Heaven's gates and being judged on account of those laws...

Meanwhile, I'm responsible for myself and only I am resposible for myself here on Earth, in the Good Ol' US of A, where I must obey and follow Civil Laws.

I'm just applying one standpoint, that of the Civil Laws, to that of God's laws, that I and only I am responsible for my own actions.

See, he didn't ask for it directly. But by calling me he was indirectly asking, and he was relieved that I cared enough about him to offer it.

My feeling is that there are several kinds of advice. One is the finger-wagging lecture and scolding. The other is loving advice and can be couched in terms that aren't offensive and delivered with humility. If done right the recipient may not realize he's been given advice. That's the way to help.

Often advice need not be offered - just a listening ear and a caring heart. Maybe you can help your friend that way.

Well, hmm.

By calling, in my book that's asking. But you're right about the different terms of advice, and that really does help me sort out things.

As for my suicidal friend, he's a metaphor right now, but I do have my eye on a certain friend in particular who might be going that direction.

But I certainly do try to help my friends that way with their other problems (And they are legion. :( )

Lanquassia - how do you handle this: A guy is walking out onto ice that you know is too thin to support him. He'll drown for sure, but he's a city guy and knows nothing of the danger.

Do you yell to him to get off? Do you remain silent but stand by to rescue him? Do you walk away since it's not your problem?

Good for you to take responsibilty of your actions. I totally understand you feeling that you will deal with God when it is time.

As for -"religious people have no right to offer it."- As of now they do have a right to offer it, that I am aware of. But they should leave people alone that tell them they don't want help, require their help or that they are of another faith and don't desire to be converted.

I've never thought it was right for someone to try to "convert" a person they do not know( and are aware that person has their own beliefs) to another belief. When dealing with family or relatives then it gets more complicated. To me that becomes more of a family matter than religion.

It's about respecting the individuals decision and belief. If you have to sway them or "talk them into" a belief it doesn't hold much water for the one talked into it, imo.

I've read books that some people brought to my parents house that guided the one trying to make the individual believe/convert. They were laid out like a telemarketer guide. [If they say so and so.. or quote verse so and so.., you respond with.. so and so.] I really don't think that was a book intended for a n "outsider" or convertee. I immediatly thought that they had given them a book they weren't suppose to.

It sparked an interest in that "religion" or cult as I think of it now. So I found information about the system and talked to some in-laws family members that are in that belief and one of which is an Elder. My first instinct was correct.


Well, there's the presentation of ones veiws, which is one thing. That I have nothing against.

Its when people do things and claim its to help me, thats when I get upset. One of the things that got me to burst out into flame in another thread was a Christian taking the viewpoint of "We know best what is best for you."

Mind you, I have nothing against Christanity, so long as it stays out of my home, and doesn't force itself into my life.

But some people are intent on forcing it into my life, and I don't want that. I don't believe in Christanity and while I do admire some of its tenats, it has a history of violence and malevolence that I cannot stand.

Lanquassia - how do you handle this: A guy is walking out onto ice that you know is too thin to support him. He'll drown for sure, but he's a city guy and knows nothing of the danger.

Do you yell to him to get off? Do you remain silent but stand by to rescue him? Do you walk away since it's not your problem?

Well, to be honest, I'd never be in an area where ice forms. *shudder* I can barely handle rain, but ICE?

...that's dodging the question, and I know it. So I'll answer.

I'd shout something to the effect, "Hey, be careful, there's thin ice out there!" and stand and watch for a bit.

And also wonder where's the sign that says "Danger - Thin Ice!".

Is that a double standard, or hypocrasy? I'm not too certain, but if I felt that guns were evil (which I was raised to believe), and there's a guy in front of me with his back towards me, and he's about to do something I wouldn't just consider wrong, but evil, and I had a gun in front of me, that I could grab and use... I'd use it.

Well, to be honest, I'd never be in an area where ice forms. *shudder* I can barely handle rain, but ICE?

...that's dodging the question, and I know it. So I'll answer.

I'd shout something to the effect, "Hey, be careful, there's thin ice out there!" and stand and watch for a bit.

And also wonder where's the sign that says "Danger - Thin Ice!".

Is that a double standard, or hypocrasy? I'm not too certain, but if I felt that guns were evil (which I was raised to believe), and there's a guy in front of me with his back towards me, and he's about to do something I wouldn't just consider wrong, but evil, and I had a gun in front of me, that I could grab and use... I'd use it.

So unsolicited advice is permissible under the right circumstances - and you are willing to break with your own policy to save a life. And I agree with your choice, it's what I would do.

Some Christians feel strongly enough about your soul that they want to warn you of the "thin ice" you are on. That's why they lecture you.

I'm a Christian, and I have never felt that it was my job to warn people (most Christians feel this way). But I suppose I would if necessary.

Just offering a different perspective.

So unsolicited advice is permissible under the right circumstances - and you are willing to break with your own policy to save a life. And I agree with your choice, it's what I would do.

Some Christians feel strongly enough about your soul that they want to warn you of the "thin ice" you are on. That's why they lecture you.

I'm a Christian, and I have never felt that it was my job to warn people (most Christians feel this way). But I suppose I would if necessary.

Just offering a different perspective.

I know, this was the flaw that I was refering to in my third post on this thread (fourth post for the thread, including the topic post).

Your thin ice analogy summed up much better the flaw than my sucidal friend.

The problem is, I could care less if I was walking onto metaphorical thin ice with my soul. If the guy in the example ignored me, I'd stay around to see if he's going to get himself in major trouble, but I'm not going to keep shouting at him, or legislate that people should keep off of thin ice.

Because thats what the sign is there for, to tell people there's thin ice.

I hate to nitpick, but the age of consent for sex is 16 (in my state, which is pretty standard,) voting, rifles, contracts and military service is 18; drinking and owning handguns is 21. Kind of sick that you can get married before you vote or that you can blow up buildings in foreign countries before you can buy a beer, isn't it?

I know, this was the flaw that I was refering to in my third post on this thread (fourth post for the thread, including the topic post).

Your thin ice analogy summed up much better the flaw than my sucidal friend.

The problem is, I could care less if I was walking onto metaphorical thin ice with my soul. If the guy in the example ignored me, I'd stay around to see if he's going to get himself in major trouble, but I'm not going to keep shouting at him, or legislate that people should keep off of thin ice.

Because thats what the sign is there for, to tell people there's thin ice.

I understand how you feel. Your soul is your responsibility alone, it is not up to me. In fact, I feel it is presumptuous to meddle.

Just wanted to point out that the lectures may be out of genuine concern - in other words, well-intentioned. So more easily forgiven than, say, a lecture on your appearance.

But there is that flaw - that's worth thinking about. Work it out here, if you want - I'll listen.

I hate to nitpick, but the age of consent for sex is 16 (in my state, which is pretty standard,) voting, rifles, contracts and military service is 18; drinking and owning handguns is 21. Kind of sick that you can get married before you vote or that you can blow up buildings in foreign countries before you can buy a beer, isn't it?

I said that 18 is the federal AoC ;)

And yes, I do believe that its sad that we can get married, vote, and blow sh!t up and get paid for it before I can drink alchohal.

Not that I'd want to, it's nasty stuff.

Thanks for reading, though :D

I understand how you feel. Your soul is your responsibility alone, it is not up to me. In fact, I feel it is presumptuous to meddle.

Just wanted to point out that the lectures may be out of genuine concern - in other words, well-intentioned. So more easily forgiven than, say, a lecture on your appearance.

But there is that flaw - that's worth thinking about. Work it out here, if you want - I'll listen.

There is the flaw, but while at the same time I think that sometimes, genuine concern or well-intentioned help is needed, even when not asked for...

...there are limits on impposing said help. If I go through a mental crisis where I don't know what to do with my life (Which I did,) and I somehow asked a Christian for advice, he can go ahead and say, "Read the Bible," or "Come to Church." I'm not going to do that, but he can offer said advice.

But then, coming to me after church and asking why I didn't go, and then bugging me about it for awhile afterward, thats going a bit too far, but it is possibly out of concern. Although annoying.

But it might get to the point where he's starting stuff at work or at school, and tells me he'll stop if I go to church with him, or at least infers that it'll stop when I give in. Stuff thats unrelated, but he's also forcing the issue.

In this case, I do need help and guidance, but not from this source. When it comes to God, I'll ask Him directly (My people have a habit of doing that,) as opposed to an 'intermediary'.

Its well intentioned help, but going to far and I'm refusing to listen, and what its doing is making me less likely to ever go to this guy for help ever again, and also less likey to go to another Christian.

...am I making any sense?

There is the flaw, but while at the same time I think that sometimes, genuine concern or well-intentioned help is needed, even when not asked for...

...there are limits on impposing said help. If I go through a mental crisis where I don't know what to do with my life (Which I did,) and I somehow asked a Christian for advice, he can go ahead and say, "Read the Bible," or "Come to Church." I'm not going to do that, but he can offer said advice.

But then, coming to me after church and asking why I didn't go, and then bugging me about it for awhile afterward, thats going a bit too far, but it is possibly out of concern. Although annoying.

But it might get to the point where he's starting stuff at work or at school, and tells me he'll stop if I go to church with him, or at least infers that it'll stop when I give in. Stuff thats unrelated, but he's also forcing the issue.

In this case, I do need help and guidance, but not from this source. When it comes to God, I'll ask Him directly (My people have a habit of doing that,) as opposed to an 'intermediary'.

Its well intentioned help, but going to far and I'm refusing to listen, and what its doing is making me less likely to ever go to this guy for help ever again, and also less likey to go to another Christian.

...am I making any sense?

Yes, you're making sense.

Your advisor was productive only in step 1, suggesting you go to Church, etc. Beyond that he has good intentions but they fall on deaf ears since they are not helpful to you. But he doesn't realize this. He lacks intuition.

You are part of this process and must accept some responsibility for the source of advice - you chose the guy.

Unsolicited advice from me: choose carefully who you will listen to.

You ever need someone to talk to, drop me an email. You can trust me to be confidential. You may or may not get advice, even if you ask for it.

Got to get some sleep - been nice talking to you. Good night.

Yes, you're making sense.

Your advisor was productive only in step 1, suggesting you go to Church, etc. Beyond that he has good intentions but they fall on deaf ears since they are not helpful to you. But he doesn't realize this. He lacks intuition.

You are part of this process and must accept some responsibility for the source of advice - you chose the guy.

Unsolicited advice from me: choose carefully who you will listen to.

You ever need someone to talk to, drop me an email. You can trust me to be confidential. You may or may not get advice, even if you ask for it.

Got to get some sleep - been nice talking to you. Good night.


Goodnight, and thanks for the 'unsolicited' advice.

IMO, if someone says in a public forum "I have a problem, or I feel this way, and there's a flaw in my feelings" thats implied request for advise.

I might hit the sack soon myself. Goodnight.

Well, there's the presentation of ones veiws, which is one thing. That I have nothing against.

Its when people do things and claim its to help me, thats when I get upset. One of the things that got me to burst out into flame in another thread was a Christian taking the viewpoint of "We know best what is best for you."

Mind you, I have nothing againstChristanity, so long as it stays out of my home, and doesn't force itself into my life.

But some people are intent on forcing it into my life, and I don't want that. I don't believe in Christanity and while I do admire some of its tenats, it has a history of violence and malevolence that I cannot stand.

I understand. I feel the same way about the "religion" I wrote about in my post to you. I had nothing against that belief (also didn't know anything about it) 'til it was brought upon me.

I worked with someone once who was of a different religion than myself (not saying I have never worked with anyone else of differnet beliefs, but in this instance we communicated frequently). He is a good guy, great father, hard working, honest, positive and moral. We respected one another even though we knew our beliefs were different. A part of our beliefs were very much related.. but one part was very different. We were able to talk about things and not end up in a contest because we respected one another, we were both positive thinkers and had similar goals .. beliefs in life. Him being a Muslim and myself believing Jesus Christ was the Son of God has no bearing.. until.. one day he decided to show me Jesus was simply a prophet. I listenend to him then I stopped him, told him to not to try to change my mind on something I feel/know personally so dearly. I had never treaded on his belief in Muhammad nor tried to convert him to my way. He respected that. There were no foul words. But gradually we did stop talking so often. That was my first experience of Religion seperating. I have no ill will toward him, nor do I believe he is "wrong". I believe what I believe.. he believes what he believes. Period.

I understand. I feel the same way about the "religion" I wrote about in my post to you. I had nothing against that belief (also didn't know anything about it) 'til it was brought upon me.

I worked with someone once who was of a different religion than myself (not saying I have never worked with anyone else of differnet beliefs, but in this instance we communicated frequently). He is a good guy, great father, hard working, honest, positive and moral. We respected one another even though we knew our beliefs were different. A part of our beliefs were very much related.. but one part was very different. We were able to talk about things and not end up in a contest because we respected one another, we were both positive thinkers and had similar goals .. beliefs in life. Him being a Muslim and myself believing Jesus Christ was the Son of God has no bearing.. until.. one day he decided to show me Jesus was simply a prophet. I listenend to him then I stopped him, told him to not to try to change my mind on something I feel/know personally so dearly. I had never treaded on his belief in Muhammad nor tried to convert him to my way. He respected that. There were no foul words. But gradually we did stop talking so often. That was my first experience of Religion seperating. I have no ill will toward him, nor do I believe he is "wrong". I believe what I believe.. he believes what he believes. Period.


But... there are people who don't get that. Thats mainly what this was directed to.

Call me a bigot, sure, but I can't stand it when someone preaches stuff at me at something I'm not agreeing is wrong. Not neccesarily religion, but other stuff.

But... there are people who don't get that. Thats mainly what this was directed to.

Call me a bigot, sure, but I can't stand it when someone preaches stuff at me at something I'm not agreeing is wrong. Not neccesarily religion, but other stuff.

What happens when you tell them that it's not gonna fly.. go elsewhere.? Are you speaking of random ppls or closer ones.. like family? That can be pretty hard to deal with.

Also.. the religion "cult" I spoke of in my first post was not about the Muslim faith.

What happens when you tell them that it's not gonna fly.. go elsewhere.? Are you speaking of random ppls or closer ones.. like family? That can be pretty hard to deal with.

I delt with it my firmly telling my cousin that he is a Jewish Hebrew, his mother's mother's mother was Jewish, and so is he by Jewish law.

I don't think it took, and now he's lost to me in the South :(

As for friends, my friend's family tried to convert me once. Once. They didn't like my reply so never brought it up again. Friend could care less.

Family needs to learn when to stop badgering about things, like jobs, food, who'se getting what when you die, and religion. Its just a matter of saying, "Look, I don't want to talk about this, pass the peas."

As for random people, if someone comes up to me and asks me if I believe in God, I say yes. If they try to press the issue, I also say I believe in my foot and my shoe, and if you don't get away from me you will have some damn good evidence that both my shoe and my foot both exist.

I'm tired and starting to rant. I think I should sleep O.O

Also.. the religion "cult" I spoke of in my first post was not about the Muslim faith.

Technically, all religions are cults and vice versa. Just connotations.

But I hear ya