NationStates Jolt Archive

Just some questions I've come up with that I hope some people can answer.

1) If America is so terrible, why do young people worldwide buy American products, use American goods, and indulge in American entertainment? Why do young people outside of the US wonder of the police why their rights are not being read? (This question is, I confess, a bit more rhetorical than the others.)

2) If Iraq has no link to terrorism... what's with all the terrorism?

3) Again with terrorism. How do you propose we deal with a group who kills Margaret Hassan, an Iraqi citizen of 30 years, married to an Iraqi, who by all accounts had done nothing but try to improve life under the Iraqi people under and after Saddam? Nevermind the many other innocent hostages who were there to help rebuild the country.

How do you propose we deal with a group of radicals who are quite happy not only to launch an attack on a civilizan target, as they did on 9/11, but to attack Bali and Madrid in similar circumstances, and most of all to take children hostage, torture them by threatening to shoot them if they fell off a window sill they were forced to stand on for hours in terrible heat with no water or food, threaten to kill 6 other children if any of them made a sound, and shot them in the back when things went south and many of the kids were able to make a run for it?

As far as I am concerned, the terrorists have proved they deserve no second chance, no consideration, and no mercy.

4) GITMO. Two questions. What justification is there for holding people without some sort of legal proceedings? Second; what justification is there for claiming it is all about mistreatment and torture when these prisoners and detainees have better healthcare than half of America does (And better than almost all non-private European citizens, I'll wager.)? EDIT: Nevermind that they often try and attack the people treating them.

1) If America is so terrible, why do young people worldwide buy American products, use American goods,
All their life goes into buying American products, and if they would be unavailable, they'd start crying? (Maybe you're thinking crappy pop music. That's a monopolistic market, you cannot have competing sellers for a single artist. There's nothing you can do, if you want the same product in such a market, but don't want it "American".) Second, American corporations compete with the same rules as domestic corporations; neither is an unquestionable winner.

and indulge in American entertainment?
It's cheap, bland and has a lot of bells and whistles. That works everywhere.

Why do young people outside of the US wonder of the police why their rights are not being read? (This question is, I confess, a bit more rhetorical than the others.)
Maybe they assume that the police is as corrupt as in the USA. (An equally rhetorical answer. See Transparency International.)

2) If Iraq has no link to terrorism... what's with all the terrorism?
Americans singlehandedly created the world's largest terrorist training center when they invaded Iraq. Before that, it was just Saddam, who was your usual brutal dictator, too much occupied hoarding wealth to be distracted by any principled cause such as Islamic terrorism.

3) Again with terrorism. How do you propose we deal with a group who kills Margaret Hassan, an Iraqi citizen of 30 years, married to an Iraqi, who by all accounts had done nothing but try to improve life under the Iraqi people under and after Saddam? Nevermind the many other innocent hostages who were there to help rebuild the country.
Terrorists should be destroyed. The problem is, that Americans haven't much been doing this.

4) GITMO. Two questions. What justification is there for holding people without some sort of legal proceedings?
It's against the constitution and international agreements the US has signed to keep prisoners without any trial in sight. You do not measure the development of the civilization by how it treats the ordinary citizens; you measure it by looking at how the hated are treated. The problem is, that the rule of law has been cast out of the window by the ruling neocons. So, the justification is: because Rumsfeld says so.

Second; what justification is there for claiming it is all about mistreatment and torture when these prisoners and detainees have better healthcare than half of America does
The old "there's no torture if the skin isn't broken" fallacy.

With #2, there have never been truer words spoken.

Just some questions I've come up with that I hope some people can answer.will try

1) If America is so terrible, why do young people worldwide buy American products, use American goods, and indulge in American entertainment? because of the boost in economy when an American franchise opens, the jobs made when the American company sends manufaction jobs overseas.
Why do young people outside of the US wonder of the police why their rights are not being read? (This question is, I confess, a bit more rhetorical than the others.)arrogance... they expect American laws to still protect them when they are not in America

2) If Iraq has no link to terrorism... what's with all the terrorism?ahh... but if you look back before the Iraq war, an American military post/place where Americans congregate is blown up with the frequency of once a year. now all terrorist acts are beind done on Iraqi soil and now the terrorists there are not caring about the civilians. big difference.

3) Again with terrorism. How do you propose we deal with a group who kills Margaret Hassan, an Iraqi citizen of 30 years, married to an Iraqi, who by all accounts had done nothing but try to improve life under the Iraqi people under and after Saddam? Nevermind the many other innocent hostages who were there to help rebuild the country.I would say now, let the Iraqi's handle it since now more Iraqi citizens are dying than American.

How do you propose we deal with a group of radicals who are quite happy not only to launch an attack on a civilizan target, as they did on 9/11, but to attack Bali and Madrid in similar circumstances, and most of all to take children hostage, torture them by threatening to shoot them if they fell off a window sill they were forced to stand on for hours in terrible heat with no water or food, threaten to kill 6 other children if any of them made a sound, and shot them in the back when things went south and many of the kids were able to make a run for it?they wanna act like rabid dogs, then they should be put down as rabid dogs.

As far as I am concerned, the terrorists have proved they deserve no second chance, no consideration, and no mercy.agreed.

4) GITMO. Two questions. What justification is there for holding people without some sort of legal proceedings? legal on who's definition. truth be told. the CIA and other Intelligence agencies were sharply critisized about 9/11 and the WMDs (which I say wasn't their fault entirely) so now, they need to make triply sure that the person they are holding is safe before letting them go. I really don't envy anyone in command of Gitmo.
Second; what justification is there for claiming it is all about mistreatment and torture when these prisoners and detainees have better healthcare than half of America does (And better than almost all non-private European citizens, I'll wager.)? EDIT: Nevermind that they often try and attack the people treating them.define torture. what is mostly reported I wouldn't consider torture... even if I was put through it. Every year, more gets added to the term torture untill I wouldn't be surprise if denying them 4 hours sleep, 3 meals 2 snack periods and dessert and yelling at them in harsh tones is called torture.

All their life goes into buying American products, and if they would be unavailable, they'd start crying? (Maybe you're thinking crappy pop music. That's a monopolistic market, you cannot have competing sellers for a single artist. There's nothing you can do, if you want the same product in such a market, but don't want it "American".) Second, American corporations compete with the same rules as domestic corporations; neither is an unquestionable winner.

I don't know about Finland, but here in England we've got far more music of far lower quality than most that the US puts out. Whenever I'm over there, I'm stunned to hear decent music actually gets played in stores now and then. If we want crappy music, we've got plenty of choice. But I see your point about only having the one publisher. Anyway, that wasn't my point really, it was more that wherever you go, no matter public opinion, Europe has kids and teenagers everywhere dressed in American products or at the least, following American trends.

It's cheap, bland and has a lot of bells and whistles. That works everywhere.

You've not seen Space: Above and Beyond, Babylon 5, Deadwood, Oz, Six Feet Under, House, The Sorpranos, Battlestar Galactica, 24, The Simpsons, Family Guy, South Park, CSI, or Law and Order, I take it?

Maybe they assume that the police is as corrupt as in the USA. (An equally rhetorical answer. See Transparency International.)

That answer makes no sense. How can assuming one's police force is required to inform you of what rights you have whilst in their custody have anything at all to do with how corrupt the US' police force may or may not be? It's nothing to do with that; nations aren't caring or trying enough to educate their children that their nation is not America, and so they've really got nobody to blame for this 'imperialism' but themselves. (Additionally, I'd point out that assuming you not only have rights, but the right to be TOLD those rights, is rather indicative of a less-than-evil police force, not a corrupt one.)

Americans singlehandedly created the world's largest terrorist training center when they invaded Iraq. Before that, it was just Saddam, who was your usual brutal dictator, too much occupied hoarding wealth to be distracted by any principled cause such as Islamic terrorism.

Possibly a fair point, yet even so, I'm pretty sure it's hard to swing what was once a worldwide movement into something which has become concentrated in one small region as a really bad thing. I'm sorry the Iraqis are caught in the middle of it, and that Coalition forces die, but I'm not sorry we've created a frontline where we can actually fight them.

Terrorists should be destroyed. The problem is, that Americans haven't much been doing this.

I don't see what more they could have done, you know. Yes, Iraq may have been... hasty, but it isn't like there's been a softly-softly approach. Edit: Also, my main problem is that when the FBI or CIA investigate someone who is plainly not a terrorist, the problem isn't that they're a bit paranoid, the problem is that they fail to say 'Hands up lads, we got it wrong, you're off the flight lists.'

It's against the constitution and international agreements the US has signed to keep prisoners without any trial in sight. You do not measure the development of the civilization by how it treats the ordinary citizens; you measure it by looking at how the hated are treated. The problem is, that the rule of law has been cast out of the window by the ruling neocons. So, the justification is: because Rumsfeld says so.

Entirely true. I wouldn't specifically blame neo-cons, I'm pretty sure most nations would do it if they felt it necessary, but this is the real problem with GITMO. On the other hand, one must consider that the evidence required to be legally detaining someone there may well reveal sources and information networks which would be dangerous not only to the US, but to the individuals involved, to reveal.

[QUOTE=PerkeleenmaaThe old "there's no torture if the skin isn't broken" fallacy.[/QUOTE]

The detainees get three squares a day, they get an average of four medical checkups a month (Four! I don't think even the most efficient socialist nations have ever managed something like that!), they have special holders to ensure the Koran does not touch the ground in their cells, they are supplied with prayer beads, mats, and oils, they are called to prayer five times a day, and they are furnished with arrows directing them towards Mecca. A tiny number of abuses does not evil equate. All at the cost of the taxpayers who they are trying to kill. They threaten and try to attack the guards, telling them such horrible things as 'I will track down your family and kill you like sheep in your sleep' (Not verbatim, but damnably close.), yet they are by and large not punished. And when the worst they suffer in return is a holy book being destroyed, I truly wonder. I truly, truly wonder. Here is my basic opinion of the matter;

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