NationStates Jolt Archive

If China was to invade North Korea (or stage the perfect coup) and install a moderate puppet (as opposed to the current insane oligachy) government that keeps it hands away from making nuclear weapons/WMDs.

Say complete strategic surprise was acheived, and there are relatively few casualties, and no WMDs were used by either side.

I mean, China has a lot to gain from this kind of action. That'd defuse the nuclear crisis pretty quickly and the US won't take military action against NK.

What do you think the US response will be? Will the South Koreans and Japanese worry or sigh with relief?

Personally I think the US would owe China one big-time. It works out for pretty much everyone except the Japanese and the former North Korean regime.

Don't you think the North Koreans would put up a heck of a bloody fight, whoever invaded them? It's an entranched nation.
And don't ever believe that the people will welcome the invaders as liberators. It is usually a myth.

Don't you think the North Koreans would put up a heck of a bloody fight, whoever invaded them? It's an entranched nation.
And don't ever believe that the people will welcome the invaders as liberators. It is usually a myth.
Yes well the French welcomed the Prussians and Austrians as liberators when they entered Paris, after Napoleon went into exile, but look how that ended up.

But sorry for being so simplist why would China invade NK, there both marxist states, it would be like stalin killing gadalfi, castro killing mao etc.. And I know some people will say that China is moving to the right, but that's call a snake a snake shall we.

Yes well the French welcomed the Prussians and Austrians as liberators when they entered Paris, after Napoleon went into exile, but look how that ended up.

But sorry for being so simplist why would China invade NK, there both marxist states, it would be like stalin killing gadalfi, castro killing mao etc.. And I know some people will say that China is moving to the right, but that's call a snake a snake shall we.

Well, theyve got a huge army havent they?

Well, theyve got a huge army havent they?
They Both have hordes of untrained, unfed and poorly equipped soldiers.

They Both have hordes of untrained, unfed and poorly equipped soldiers.
That's a bit of a myth i would say, the People's Republic Army of China is one of the most well equipted and highly trained fighting forces in world. But I do agree that manpower would never be a problem for China, having the resources for a prolonged and prodominantly naval and air war of any scale would be a problem for China though.

That's a bit of a myth i would say, the People's Republic Army of China is one of the most well equipted and highly trained fighting forces in world. But I do agree that manpower would never be a problem for China, having the resources for a prolonged and prodominantly naval and air war of any scale would be a problem for China though.
Highly trained? Well Equipped? Brother(Sister?), The PLA is still using the Wave doctrine, and basically have copies of 1950s/1960s Soviet equipment. There are simply too many to adequatly train and equip well. It's much easier to send 12 divisions of badly trained and equiped soldiers than 3 divisions of well equiped and well trained men.

Well, it's a bit of a myth that the Chinese Army is unfed, untrained, underequiped with old weapons. They've been spending a lot the last couple of years to modernize their army. It isn't like the American military, but it isn't a stone age army.

Don't you think the North Koreans would put up a heck of a bloody fight, whoever invaded them? It's an entranched nation.

And don't ever believe that the people will welcome the invaders as liberators. It is usually a myth.

It's entrenched to prevent an invasion from South Korea...NOT from China.

Yes, the NK's would put up a fight, and a bloody one, but the strategic suprise that China would have from such a move would almost assure victory, and would certainly mean fewer Chinese casualties.

Also, North Koreans have been fleeing as refugees to China for many years now, due to the problems NK has simply feeding it's own population. There have been several high-profile examples of this in recent months.

As cut off from the world as NK seems, I'm sure they know and hear a lot more about China than anywhere else...and I'm sure the average North Korean would like nothing better than to be ruled from Bejing as opposed to Pyongyang...as long as ethnicity didn't factor into any sort of negative treatment of Koreans.

So while people welcoming invaders is usually a myth, I strongly doubt that such is the case in regards to China and NK.

How true!

While China is still using copies of outdated Russian equipment, along with a few blueprints bought from Western sources (hello Clinton)... which they haven't really enhanced... most other countries have evolved.

Most notably India. Not only do they have access to state-of-the art russian blueprints, they are also in joint ventures with russian military developers to enhance and build these new high-tech weapons. Russian brains, Indian technical know-how and industry... bingo.

Now Russia+India have frightening new weapons, such as autonomous cruise missiles and high-altitude, ultra-high-speed ballistic missiles which you can't possibly intercept.
These modern missiles that have evolved from good old Granit ("Shipwreck") are probably the most reliable missiles of today's military arsenal. And Americans probably don't have a clue about their actual performances.

So China would probably have trouble in a war against India (!!!!!), especially if Russians take India's side (which wouldn't surprise me). Hello new world order.
They would have their ass wipped against a few of today's world powers.

They Both have hordes of untrained, unfed and poorly equipped soldiers.

Thats just western propaganda

Thats just western propaganda
Oh? Name an extremely large army was wasn't poorly trained and equipped?

If that happened it'd be like hitting the beehive of South Korea with a stick. The south koreans would probably go batshit insane and leap to North Korea's defense. The thing that's difficult to hold onto in the case of a divided Korea, is the concept of a divided Korea is an anathema to their common culture history and mythology. South Korea probably would be able to guarantee air supremacy over the peninsula for as long as they had fuel. That would not bode well for the Chinese, to put it mildly.

That said, China wants to keep North Korea as a thorn in the US paw. China is far more likely to attack Taiwan. But even that isn't particularly likely.

We should have a tradeoff. Taiwan for North Korea or something. That would defuse two ticking time bombs very neatly.

If that happened it'd be like hitting the beehive of South Korea with a stick. The south koreans would probably go batshit insane and leap to North Korea's defense. The thing that's difficult to hold onto in the case of a divided Korea, is the concept of a divided Korea is an anathema to their common culture history and mythology. South Korea probably would be able to guarantee air supremacy over the peninsula for as long as they had fuel. That would not bode well for the Chinese, to put it mildly.

That said, China wants to keep North Korea as a thorn in the US paw. China is far more likely to attack Taiwan. But even that isn't particularly likely.

*nods*

I wouldn't be at all surprised if South Korea entered the war in defence of the North, were China to make such a move. Koreans throughout the peninsula consider themselves Koreans first and foremost, and dream of reunification. With relations between South and North getting increasingly better, a Chinese invasion of the North would be seen as disastrous by the South.

Also, you have to understand that the overwhelming majority of North Koreans view Kim as something of a god. The idea of regime change and foreign occupation is something they would find horrifying, and fight against tooth and nail.

Korea as a whole has been occupied too many times in its history to want any kind of repeat.

Oh? Name an extremely large army was wasn't poorly trained and equipped?

Well that may explain why the US army lost in 'nam...

If China was to invade North Korea (or stage the perfect coup) and install a moderate puppet (as opposed to the current insane oligachy) government that keeps it hands away from making nuclear weapons/WMDs.



Why would China invade NoKo which is *already* their puppet nation? :confused:

NoKo is sustained by the freebies given to it by PRC (food etc).

I mean, China has a lot to gain from this kind of action. That'd defuse the nuclear crisis pretty quickly and the US won't take military action against NK.

China *created* the North Korean problem. NoKo is China's cat's paw.

The nuke proliferation route is PRC - Pak - NoKo. This gives China plausible deniability. Recall that the C-130 planes carrying nuclear material from Pakistan to NoKo had a stop over in China.

This notion that China is working with US/Japan to "defuse" a crisis which they *control* is hilarious.

China *created* the North Korean problem. NoKo is China's cat's paw.
Then why must the NK government guard the northern border to prevent its citizen from defecting to China?
And why won't China send them food when they starve?
I think it's much more complicated than that. NK used to be aligned on China, but over the years they have isolated themselves.

China today is trying to coexist in the world with the Western nations. To have a rogue ally as their neighbour would increasingly become a burden for China.

A few points to represent my two cents worth...

NK would fight to beat all if they were attacked by anyone. Even the Northern neighbors. As a country they are typically on the ridiculous side of paranoid.
Given that, they had beter make a quick job of it. The equipment they have (and they have a hell of a lot of it) has been so long without replacement parts it may very well fail in the first day of conflict, if not the first few hours.

The US Army lost in Viet Nam because the government at the time allowed National Will to fail. Never a good thing for the war effort.

I agree with the thought that the South would leap to defend the North. Just another way for the South to (gain face) regain their Northern brethren and reunite families (exploit what few resources the North had left).

If China really wanted the island of Taiwan, they could have it. The US would not be able to react with sufficient force to prevent it, and would be forced to dig them out. Not an easy task, given the USs heavy reliance on air power for assault and force projection. The Chinease have fairly advanced air defenses, and would not look kindly on someone interfering with the plundering of a country whos arse they had just finished kicking.
The Wave doctrine is wildly outdated, but so are large rocks. Discuss the efficacy of large rocks when someone bashes one in the head. With enough men (PRK has plenty), tactics become less important, as does the pedigree of one's equipment.

I beg to differ.


The Chinese Military has been undergoing MASSIVE modernization in the past few years; analyists see that it will soon, if not already, rival US military power. China is neither poorly trained or poorly equipped.


And yes, China will invade North Korea when the time comes. Chinese divisions are already posistioned on the Korean-Chinese border so the second the regime starts to collapse, China will march right in to make sure that America does not expand its sphere of infulence in Asia.

The two Koreas are a shameful reminder of the Cold War. Only this time, waiting for the supportive regimes (ie. China/US) to collapse is redundant. It's either negotiation or war that would end the stalemate. Negotiation is not likely with crazy people like Kim in power, and war could be devastating. Most likely stalemate forever...

Then why must the NK government guard the northern border to prevent its citizen from defecting to China?
And why won't China send them food when they starve?
.

NoKo is a paranoid govt and they would like us to believe that they are paranoid. It's called the "madman" theory.

They guard the China-N.Korean border because the Chinese want them to.

China is the single largest (probably the only one) donor to NoKo. NoKo has got nothing to sell to China in return except their foreign policy. And Dear Leader does not care if his people starve, so the question of them asking China to give the whole supply is moot. They get enough supplies from China to be in power, since that is the only thing that Dear Leader is interested in.

I think it's much more complicated than that. NK used to be aligned on China, but over the years they have isolated themselves

It IS complicated. and the "isolation" thing is what makes it complicated. China cannot afford to "lose face" by being open with its cat's paw, especially with so much FDI pouring into the country.

And do remember that without China, there would have been no North Korea !

It still holds.

If North Korea starts to fall apart, China will leap in and insure that the US does not expand it's influence, as Revionia said. South Korea would probably throw a hissy fit, and their more modernized and high tech equipment (courtesy of the US of A) would give the Chinese trouble for awhile, but if China really wanted to they could simply overwhelm through numbers the entirety of Korea. Which would probably set the US against China, quite possibly igniting World War Three...

The idea that the PLA is underequipped, untrained, and unfed is ludicrous. Yes, the average training and equipment of the average PLA conscript is much lower than the militaries of most other nations, but a sixty year old AK-47 can kill a man just as well as a modern M-16, as our (the US's) boys are learning much to their chagrin in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Chinese have been buying up a LOT of old Russian equipment, everything from small arms to tanks to aircraft to flipping submarines. Whatever happened to that rumor that China bought a Typhoon class SSBN back in the late 90s?

Plus, there's numbers. Numbers isn't always everything, us Texans know that quite well. During the American Civil War, a force of a hundred (or two hundred, I forget the exact number) Union soldiers got obliterated attacking a Texan fort garrisoned by only three men. Still, I doubt even the US has enough bullets for every soldier in the Chinese army, which means that North and South Korea both are screwed if China decides to expand through the Korean peninsula (unlikely, but you can't count it out as a possibility).

And do remember that without China, there would have been no North Korea !



Nope. North Korea was created back in 1948 between the Soviets and Americans. China was still in the throes of our last civil war.

East Asia should be the next ticking time bomb after the Middle East. Let's count the ways:

1. Mainland VS Taiwan
2. China VS South Sea nations
3. China + South Korea VS Japan
4. North Korea VS South Korea + Japan + USA
5. China VS USA
6. Everybody else VS USA

Not to mention we have 2, maybe even 3 - 4 nuclear powers in the region. Fun! :p

Oh? Name an extremely large army was wasn't poorly trained and equipped?

Mongolian Horde when ruled by Ghengis Khan

...But why would China dedicate so much resources and personnel to invade North Korea, only to waste its resources and move its exclusive attention from Taiwan and the United States, while gaining next to nothing regardless of how successful the operation is militarily and politically? What many people overlooks is that China has other reasons of "helping" the United States in regards to North Korean nukes. If it is not for Taiwan (hint there), China could care less whether North Korea has nukes or not.

Originally Posted by Inkana
Oh? Name an extremely large army was wasn't poorly trained and equipped?
14th to 18th century Ottoman Empire Troops.
They kicked major ass.

Just to add my opinion on the notion that China would easily overwhelm Taiwan...

To pull off such an invasion China faces technically something akin to the problem faced by Germany when Britain fought on in 1940. To launch a massive seaborne invasion on the scale needed to subdue a modern and major nation-state is among the most difficult military operations that can be contemplated. The simple fact that the distance between Taiwan and mainland China is far more vast than the English channel is but the beginning. The PRC would HAVE to land a vast number of men by ship to support an army logistically even if airborne assaults could be made. With modern missile technology this would require, to avoid an epic slaughter and profligate waste of well trained men and material, the PRC achieving total air supremacy over the area, made difficult by Tawain's fairly effective air force... Taiwan's navy could also make things difficult as the PRC though a land power does not have the naval capacity to protect such a force. This is even assuming that the United States does not send a carrier task force to aid Taiwan and likely spell doom to a Chinese landing expeditionary force. China probably could demolish Taiwan physically, and inflict horrendus losses, but not without great cost, and the possibility of Taiwan's air-force launching significant and highly damaging airstrikes on China's major trade centers, setting their economy back a number of years....Oh and I am sure that despite Taiwan's ambiguous status, the destruction of a democratically self-ruling land which is effectively sovereign..and its inception into a tyrannical state would not bode well for China's international standing and trade...if enough CNN and BBC reports detailing the suffering of Taiwan go out to the masses in the West.

This may be off topic in regards to the Koreas, but I feel it needed said.

*snip*

I think that's quite reasonable. The Mainland has more to lose than gain if it invades Taiwan right now - but in the further future anything can happen.

The PRC would HAVE to land a vast number of men by ship to support an army logistically even if airborne assaults could be made. With modern missile technology this would require, to avoid an epic slaughter and profligate waste of well trained men and material, the PRC achieving total air supremacy over the area, made difficult by Tawain's fairly effective air force...
How about China launching a few hundreds cruise missiles and ballistic ramjets (russian technology) from mainland. And a few dozen high-precision short-range missiles from submarines, first?

Doubt the Chinese would do that. They may invade if it looks as if S Korea and N korea unify. china wants to keep a buffer from a Democracy on there border. Dont think they would put up with US troops just across there border in N Korea.

Nope. North Korea was created back in 1948 between the Soviets and Americans. China was still in the throes of our last civil war.

Sep 15, 1950 - American forces land on Inchon. After this the US+UN forces could break the Pusan perimeter and retake Seoul and cross the 38th parallel by Sep 30.

Withing a week, this force advanced and captured Wonson without too much difficulty.

The entry of Chinese forces in early October turned the tide.

If Chinese had not intervened, the whole of Korea would have come under the UN+US control. Thus, my statement holds. :)

Sep 15, 1950 - American forces land on Inchon. After this the US+UN forces could break the Pusan perimeter and retake Seoul and cross the 38th parallel by Sep 30.

Withing a week, this force advanced and captured Wonson without too much difficulty.

The entry of Chinese forces in early October turned the tide.

If Chinese had not intervened, the whole of Korea would have come under the UN+US control. Thus, my statement holds. :)

Then you should have made it clearer, like:

"China defended/protected North Korea from a joint American-UN imperialist invasion. Thus, if it wasn't for China, there wouldn't be no North Korea". ;)

And do remember that without China, there would have been no North Korea!
Nope. North Korea was created back in 1948 between the Soviets and Americans. China was still in the throes of our last civil war.


:eek:

Ummm, no. The PLA saved Kim Il-Sung's tushie by attacking the UN forces on October 19, 1950. If MacArthur hadn't been so stupid, the PRC's entry might have been avoided. That would have allowed a unified Korea, as UN forces held almost the whole country. (And if Ridgeway had been in command at the time, the country might be unified today.)

And those who claim that the PLA is equiped with 1950's Soviet dross need to take a look at what's been going on in the last 15 years or so. They have 1,500+ Type 96 MBTs, and are upgrading to Type 98s (currently around 100).

Is the PLA the technological equal to the netcentric US forces? No. But That does not mean they are the same force as they were 20-30 years ago.

As for the OP question, the DPRK would have to be way out of line for the PRC to make a move like you suggest. I think you'll see the US or ROK make the move before the PRC. But, if they do, and all your conditions are met, the PRC could pull it off. The ROK may toss in it's forces, but they'd likely get a bloody nose. The scary bit is if the ROK jumps in and pulls the US in as well.

:eek:

Ummm, no. The PLA saved Kim Il-Sung's tushie by attacking the UN forces on October 19, 1950. If MacArthur hadn't been so stupid, the PRC's entry might have been avoided. That would have allowed a unified Korea, as UN forces held almost the whole country. (And if Ridgeway had been in command at the time, the country might be unified today.)



The 38th Parallel was created back in 1948, and split Korea into North Korea and South Korea. That was the creation of North Korea! The creation! The preservation of North Korea was in 1950, when the UN *AHEM! US?* troops fought back.

But nevertheless, that was another one of the stupidest things Mao could have ever done.

what would the world reaction be if china really does invade nk?
i think the US would send it's troups in to "help" but instead try to take over

The 38th Parallel was created back in 1948, and split Korea into North Korea and South Korea. That was the creation of North Korea! The creation! The preservation of North Korea was in 1950, when the UN *AHEM! US?* troops fought back.

But nevertheless, that was another one of the stupidest things Mao could have ever done.

Aryavartha said: And do remember that without China, there would have been no North Korea!

Aryavartha did not say the PRC created the DPRK, just that it would not exist without the PRC's assistance.

And don't forget the following sent forces: Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, Turkey, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Colombia, Belgium, Ethiopia, France, Greece, the Philippines, South Africa, and Thailand. It wasn't just a US force.

Aryavartha said:

Aryavartha did not say the PRC created the DPRK, just that it would not exist without the PRC's assistance.

And don't forget the following sent forces: Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, Turkey, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Colombia, Belgium, Ethiopia, France, Greece, the Philippines, South Africa, and Thailand. It wasn't just a US force.

Thanks. :)

But you forgot India.

60 Para Field Ambulance of the Indian Army formed part of the UN force under General Douglas MacArthur. It also took part in an airborne mission alongwith American troops. The Indian Custodian Force also took custody of over 22,000 POWs till their final disposal.

*snip*

Well said.

How about China launching a few hundreds cruise missiles and ballistic ramjets (russian technology) from mainland. And a few dozen high-precision short-range missiles from submarines, first?

I fail to see your point. The launching of cruise missles would be an absolute necessity if China were to attempt an invasion of Taiwan. Taiwan is not helpless. No matter how significant the initial bombardment might be, China can not hope to eliminate the threat of Taiwanese air and missle strikes on the mainland. Winston Churchill illustrated this point quite well...the economic and tactical disadvantages are too significant at this point. China will not come through such a conflict unscathed...and the Chinese leaders are not stupid. They will not take the risk until they are certain of victory...and victory is almost assuredly impossible given China's current force projection capabilites.

If China really wanted the island of Taiwan, they could have it.

I'm sorry, but as of this moment, you are simply wrong. China cannot hope to take Taiwan

The US would not be able to react with sufficient force to prevent it, and would be forced to dig them out. Not an easy task, given the USs heavy reliance on air power for assault and force projection.

The U.S. would not need to react with "sufficient force". As I said, Taiwan is not helpless. A single carrier task force, coupled with sufficient submarine support, would be all the support the U.S. would need to send, and even that might not be necessary.

Besides, your statement that the U.S. would have to "dig them out" works both ways.

Even if China were to somehow manage to land a significant land based force on the island (currently impossible given China's limited amphibious assault capabilities), it would be the Chinese who would have to dig out the Taiwanese...giving the U.S. plenty of time to send whatever forces they felt necessary to help Taiwan.

The Chinese Navy, while certainly progressing in terms of naval capabilities, is simply not up to the task of invading Taiwan, nor of defending China should the U.S. go all out in defending Taiwan.

Until China significantly improves it's naval capabilities, it will never be the military threat that most people make it out to be, at least in terms of offensive operations in the Korea-Taiwan-SE Asia areas.

I have linked an article below, and though it is a few years old, it illustrates quite well, and in a balanced fashion, the capabilities, growth and limitations of the Chinese Navy...I'll also quote the section on China's amphibious capabilities.

The PLAN's 7,000-man Marine Force is relatively well trained and equipped. The Marine Force's primary mission is to safeguard China's island holdings in the South China Sea during times of peace and to seize and defend islands in the South China Sea during times of war. The Marine Force also may be used for amphibious raids or for establishing beachheads in scenarios entailing a military confrontation with Taiwan. Chinese marines are supported by amphibious tanks and armored personnel carriers, howitzers, and multiple rocket launchers. Although the PLAN has approximately 60 tank landing ships and medium landing ships--including relatively capable Yuting, Yukan, and Yuliang classes--its aggregate lift capability is only about 5,000 to 10,000 troops.

This limited lift capability is inadequate to support any major amphibious operation. Recent improvements in the Navy's amphibious capabilities have included the acquisition of Jingsah-class air cushion vehicles. The PLAN also has shown an interest in developing a wing-in-ground-effect craft. These hybrid aircraft have the capability to cruise one meter above the water at speeds of 120 knots or more, and in the future such craft may prove capable of supporting amphibious operations. In the past, PLAN amphibious exercises demonstrated an attempt to coordinate aerial bombardment and naval gunfire support with assault waves, but this capability has not been well developed.

EDIT: Forgot the link - http://www.navyleague.org/seapower/chinas_navy_today.htm

Aryavartha said:

And don't forget the following sent forces: Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, Turkey, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Colombia, Belgium, Ethiopia, France, Greece, the Philippines, South Africa, and Thailand. It wasn't just a US force.

But the LAAARGE majority of them US. You have to say the situation wasn't nice to China. While Mao was so dumb to send troops, it is understandable.

But the LAAARGE majority of them US. You have to say the situation wasn't nice to China. While Mao was so dumb to send troops, it is understandable.

Saying the UN forces were US is like saying the Allied Powers in WWII were Russian. ;)

And Mao may have been dumb, but MacArthur wanted to attack the Chinese with nukes! :eek: :headbang: Thankfully, Truman kept him from such idiocy.

Mongolian Horde when ruled by Ghengis Khan

And the Roman Army, you cant get much better trained than that. Except for the Mongolian Horde I guess lol

Saying the UN forces were US is like saying the Allied Powers in WWII were Russian. ;)

And Mao may have been dumb, but MacArthur wanted to attack the Chinese with nukes! :eek: :headbang: Thankfully, Truman kept him from such idiocy.

No. Everybody in the UN force just listened to the US happily. The Western Allies didn't all listen to the Soviets.

If Mao hadn't invaded, MacArthur wouldn't have wanted to drop a nuke.

With the US embroiled in a war in Korea, Mao could have just invaded Taiwan without interference. He didn't do that, and now we have TWO regional problems because of that.

If China was to invade North Korea (or stage the perfect coup) and install a moderate puppet (as opposed to the current insane oligachy) government that keeps it hands away from making nuclear weapons/WMDs.

Say complete strategic surprise was acheived, and there are relatively few casualties, and no WMDs were used by either side.

I mean, China has a lot to gain from this kind of action. That'd defuse the nuclear crisis pretty quickly and the US won't take military action against NK.

What do you think the US response will be? Will the South Koreans and Japanese worry or sigh with relief?

Personally I think the US would owe China one big-time. It works out for pretty much everyone except the Japanese and the former North Korean regime.

Yes, but that's only slightly less likely than America invading the UK, right? Likelihood of success aside, what does China stand to gain from invading North Korea? Removal of a threat?

Pre-emptive warfare is often unsuccessful, always messy, and sometimes useless. Both countries have an advantage on their own ground. Besides, both sides would know better than to weaken themselves while they face a superpower with who knows what plans...

I think we see China invading NK through a deforming "western lense". We talk about this possibility just because some American war analyst(s) said so, don't we?

Countries don't take military actions (or do stupid things, for the matter) just because we decided they would/should/could do. We don't live in a fantasy world where things happen just because we dreamed them. OK, I'll pretend China wants to invade NK, China does this and that, I retaliate here and there, and in the end, WOW, I WIN.

But China invading NK is OUR OWN strategic dream. It's not China's. So China JUST WON'T. We should stop living in a strategic dreamworld. If China tries something, I guess they'll be PRETTY SURE they'll win the day, and give us the finger.

If somebody has any information from Chinese sources, I'd be very interested.

If somebody has any information from Chinese sources, I'd be very interested.

I did a quick Google search for "China invades North Korea", and all the results are on one page, and they all come from online fori. I searched the similar term in Chinese several times with different variations, and none came up.

Maybe Westerners are just more imaginative. Easterners are more practical.

But China invading NK is OUR OWN strategic dream. It's not China's. So China JUST WON'T.

Well put.

This idea that somehow China is in "danger" because of the mad N.Koreans is a canard. The idea that China would act on this "danger" is absurd, to say the least.

This is a pretty old technique of having a proxy state do the seemingly mad things so that you keep a hold on geopolitics, all the while having plausible deniability.

I beg to differ.


The Chinese Military has been undergoing MASSIVE modernization in the past few years; analyists see that it will soon, if not already, rival US military power. China is neither poorly trained or poorly equipped.


Agreed. And it's economy will undoubtedly help too.




And yes, China will invade North Korea when the time comes. Chinese divisions are already posistioned on the Korean-Chinese border so the second the regime starts to collapse, China will march right in to make sure that America does not expand its sphere of infulence in Asia.


From what I've heard, 250,000 Chinese troops are stationed on North Korea's border, or at least at one point, were.

This could be seen as various meanings.

One could be that China are preparing themselves to invade North Korea should it become severely unstable or an irritating thorn in their side, perhaps to deter North Korea from conducting a nuclear test, which I don't think China would particulary welcome. Certainly relations between the two are not great.

Another is that the Chinese troops are stationed there as a sign to the US: Invade North Korea, and we will be all over you like a rash.

Yet another meaning could be that China do not want any part of a US war on the Korean Penninsula, and are stationed on the border merely to draw the line to how far any invading US troops could go.

Let us not forget that China and North Korea have a pact where if North Korea is attacked, China has an obligation to come to the aid of North Korea.

In an age of China's booming economy, they may not want to risk all capital and trade gained for a war, but nonetheless, it is important not to forget this pact, along with the liklihood China would not be pleased by seeing US troops present near it's border.

As to how North Korea and South Korea were created, the answer is that the foundations were set in 1945, when the US chased the Japanese into Southern Korea, and the Soviets chased the Japanese into Northern Korea.

The US set up a pro-US government in Southern Korea, which called it's jurisdiction 'The Republic of Korea' whilst the USSR set up a pro-Soviet government in Northern Korea, which called it's jurisdiction 'The Democratic People's Republic of Korea'.

The Republic of Korea at that time saw itself as the true Korea. North Korea saw itself as one half of a Korea divided that needed to be reunited.

Cue the Korean War.

No. Everybody in the UN force just listened to the US happily. The Western Allies didn't all listen to the Soviets.

If Mao hadn't invaded, MacArthur wouldn't have wanted to drop a nuke.

With the US embroiled in a war in Korea, Mao could have just invaded Taiwan without interference. He didn't do that, and now we have TWO regional problems because of that.

It is my understanding that MacArthur had advocated the use of nukes on Chinese soil before the PRC invaded. He wanted to use them against logistical bases.

And if he had been allowed, this particular problem would be moot. One way or another (either the DPRK would no longer exist, being part of a unified Korea, or a nasty 50's era nuclear war would have changed the world situation significantly - a distinct possibility seeing as the USSR and PRC were still friendly at the time.)

A world in which Mao had taken out the the KMT in Taiwan and the UN forces had taken out the DPRK might be safer. But a strong, democratic, and united Korea allied with the West may have ended up just as dangerous as Taiwan....

It is my understanding that MacArthur had advocated the use of nukes on Chinese soil before the PRC invaded. He wanted to use them against logistical bases.

And if he had been allowed, this particular problem would be moot. One way or another (either the DPRK would no longer exist, being part of a unified Korea, or a nasty 50's era nuclear war would have changed the world situation significantly - a distinct possibility seeing as the USSR and PRC were still friendly at the time.)

A world in which Mao had taken out the the KMT in Taiwan and the UN forces had taken out the DPRK might be safer. But a strong, democratic, and united Korea allied with the West may have ended up just as dangerous as Taiwan....

Really?? That !#^$!%#@#$^%@$!!!! :mad:

No. Taiwan and Korea are different. A tradeoff between Taiwan and Korea would have been great.

Really?? That !#^$!%#@#$^%@$!!!! :mad:

No. Taiwan and Korea are different. A tradeoff between Taiwan and Korea would have been great.

Unless the PRC saw a democratic and economically sucessful state on it's door step as a threat.

Why would China invade it's puppet?

Why would China invade it's puppet?

In the event the puppet snipped it's strings.