NationStates Jolt Archive


UK Moving to Ban Bible!

Leetistan
27-06-2005, 20:06
It seems like the UK is moving to allow itself to ban any religious text.

The controversial bill to outlaw religious hatred has been further exposed this week for its false intentions. This bill has been ‘sold’ to the public as a measure that is necessary to protect Muslims from religious hatred incited by far right organisations. Many Muslims have been given the misleading impression that this bill will prevent the onslaught of insults against Islamic that we have seen in the media [and indeed from politicians] over the past few years – a kind of ‘pseudo’ blasphemy law. None of these are the true intentions, and recent statements in Parliament reinforce sinister suspicions about the bill.

The bill was introduced to ‘bribe’ the Muslim community before the last election to tempt them to vote for the labour government that had lost face in their murderous war on Iraq. In reality the bill will not protect against insults against Islam – government ministers have repeatedly made it clear to advocates of free speech that they will remain free to insult, ridicule and criticise religion - an essential quality of a democracy we are told. Furthermore, there are laws that protect against religious discrimination in the workplace, and that protect against incitement to hatred generally – but none of these has been given much attention by the law enforcement agencies. A suggested alternative – making a small amendment to existing laws to strengthen them – something simpler to achieve the protection of Muslims, and yet altogether less controversial has hitherto been ignored by the government.

All of this makes the sinister motives seem more suspicious. When the bill was first introduced the then Home Secretary David Blunkett said that the bill would be used against extremist Muslims, as if this were the biggest problem necessary to be solved by this law. Similarly this week MP Boris Johnson pointed out that verses from the Quran and Bible could incite religious hatred. This has been the case in Australia where a similar bill introduced some years ago has resulted, instead of the protection of Muslims, the persecution of Muslims by hostile factions who attend gatherings and speeches to monitor what is being said. They have attempted to use their bill against Muslims, intimidating Imams and speakers to refrain from addressing sensitive issues. Blunkett’ statement, Boris Johnson’s observation, and the case of Australia reinforce this suspicion.

So who will decide how this bill will be used? Against far right extremists, against comedians and commentators, or against Muslims. The decision, we are told, will be taken by the Attorney General, the politically appointed lawyer, Lord Goldsmith, who has been heavily criticised over his role in the Iraq war. It is widely suggested that was ‘leant on’ to change his mind over this and it is he who will decide how this bill can be used.

This bill could ban quoting from Quran, or could cause a de facto ban by allowing Muslims to be intimidated like in Australia. This is no different to how the western back governments in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia have banned the use of certain ayat of Quran at the behest of the US government in a bid to reform Islam. All of this should be seen in the context of the war on terror and should be resisted.

Brothers and Sisters - We must maintain the recitation, teaching and implementation of Islam in our lives as a trust to us. A test may now fall upon all of us, and we should fear Allah, be resolute and not succumb to any intimidation that faces us. To hide any of the Quran, or avoid teaching aspects of Islam because of this bill, would be a great crime and an injustice to others who need to hear the whole message of Islam, and not a government censored version.

…Then is it only a part of the Book that ye believe in, and do ye reject the rest? but what is the reward for those among you who behave like this but disgrace in this life?- and on the Day of Judgment they shall be consigned to the most grievous penalty. For Allah is not unmindful of what ye do.[TMQ: Al Baqarah 2:85]
Sanx
27-06-2005, 20:10
Can you give a source for this?
The South Islands
27-06-2005, 20:11
'Bout damn time.
Leetistan
27-06-2005, 20:12
Source:

http://www.1924.org/opinion/index.php?id=1978_0_34_0_M
Sarkasis
27-06-2005, 20:14
Well if a Muslim says "Allah is great!" after the Man United team scores, it is certainly a good use of a religous text.
Same thing as saying "God bless" when someone sneezes.
Or to quote "The last will be the first" after you help your kids getting into the car.

Now there are other religious quotes that might me misused... it's all a question of context and timing. How do you rule on contextual stuff? You don't.

It's not a reason to trample on our liberty of expression. We're free to say stupid things, and other people are free to reply.

Otherwise, half of America's radio stations (the ultra-conservative ones) would close down, and a few universities would close down as well (the ultra-liberal ones).

On my. I'm becoming ultra-centrist.
Vintovia
27-06-2005, 20:19
Well, the bill is not going to 'ban the bible'. It is true that due to the wording of the bill, it could be considerded to 'ban the bible' or any oteher religious text for that matter.

This is from one of those bloody tabloids I bet you. Grrr.
Leetistan
27-06-2005, 20:19
But the issue is most (if not all) religious texts say things that are directed at saying other religions are wrong and something bad will happen to them. Under this law they could then be banned!

Surely it is more sensible to just allow people to use their texts and then if anyone starts blowing people up then arrest them.
Arnburg
27-06-2005, 20:19
The sooner they ban all things concearning GOD, the sooner Jesus will come back to set up his glorious Kingdom on Earth! What a great day to be alive.
Potaria
27-06-2005, 20:21
I say: Good. And, the sooner they do that over here, the better.

Religious nutters.
Liskeinland
27-06-2005, 20:24
I say: Good. And, the sooner they do that over here, the better.

Religious nutters. Fighting religious extremism with atheistic extremism… great. For some reason the image of a short man with a large moustache comes to my mind.
Potaria
27-06-2005, 20:29
Fighting religious extremism with atheistic extremism… great. For some reason the image of a short man with a large moustache comes to my mind.

Looks like I got the response I was hoping for ;).

Really, I wouldn't want to see any religious practices banned. Restricting freedom isn't the way to go about things.

Sometimes, you just have to let people say things, no matter how stupid said things are... Like that Nazi rally a few weeks ago, just two blocks from my house.
Liskeinland
27-06-2005, 20:34
Looks like I got the response I was hoping for ;).

Really, I wouldn't want to see any religious practices banned. Restricting freedom isn't the way to go about things.

Sometimes, you just have to let people say things, no matter how stupid said things are... Like that Nazi rally a few weeks ago, just two blocks from my house. I wouldn't normally make that kind of a response, but certain people actually have been saying what you said seriously, plus I find the aforementioned man darkly fascinating. :)

Agreed, religious practices should never be banned, unless they cause harm to others, like Luciferian goat-hanky-panky.
Willamena
27-06-2005, 20:35
Banning books is stupid.

And wasteful.
Wurzelmania
27-06-2005, 20:36
Let 'em try. Some nutter will, I bet and get laughed out of court. Even if they win you'll never stop us religious types.
Leetistan
27-06-2005, 20:37
Yeah but life would be easier without nine month prison terms or fines for those of us promoting our 'hateful' books.
Potaria
27-06-2005, 20:38
I wouldn't normally make that kind of a response, but certain people actually have been saying what you said seriously, plus I find the aforementioned man darkly fascinating. :)

Agreed, religious practices should never be banned, unless they cause harm to others, like Luciferian goat-hanky-panky.

1: Yeah, it's his speaking ability, really. Other than that... Nyugh.

2: DUDE!
Texpunditistan
27-06-2005, 20:47
I say: Good. And, the sooner they do that over here, the better.

Religious nutters.
Notice that the article says that the law would ban hate speech against religions. I personally would find it funny if they started arresting Atheists for hate speech against religions. :p
Texan Hotrodders
27-06-2005, 20:50
Notice that the article says that the law would ban hate speech against religions. I personally would find it funny if they started arresting Atheists for hate speech against religions. :p

That would be...strange...and I don't like establishing a precedent that you can limit speech like that, regardless of whether I agree with their beliefs or not. Maybe the article is poppycock, but if it were true I'd be concerned.
Leetistan
27-06-2005, 20:53
This is a real law, really being passed by the Parliament. You can check out the BBC or any other news organisation to fact check.
Kroblexskij
27-06-2005, 20:56
i doubt it with my life
Leetistan
27-06-2005, 21:36
Googlecheck it! It's real!
Vintovia
27-06-2005, 21:40
Yes its real, but you dont understand, this article is biased and subjective.

The law simply says that it will be illegal to use the bible to portray a hateful or offensive message.In my opinion it will protect the bible from being used as a tool of hate, not a tool of love and kindness, like its supposed to be.

Bloody reactonaries.
UberPenguinLand
27-06-2005, 21:44
That would be...strange...and I don't like establishing a precedent that you can limit speech like that, regardless of whether I agree with their beliefs or not. Maybe the article is poppycock, but if it were true I'd be concerned.

I think it means discrimination against religions in general. Like "I'm not hiring you because you're Jewish. This guy here is a Christian with an I.Q. of 2 who still craps his pants, but at least he's a Christian, *@#$!%& Jew!"

EDIT: Ahhh, beaten by someone who knows what they're talking about.
Texan Hotrodders
27-06-2005, 21:51
Yes its real, but you dont understand, this article is biased and subjective.

The law simply says that it will be illegal to use the bible to portray a hateful or offensive message.In my opinion it will protect the bible from being used as a tool of hate, not a tool of love and kindness, like its supposed to be.

Bloody reactonaries.

Still an undue restriction on free speech, in my opinion. I don't think people should be using any excuse to say hateful things, but nor do I think that the government should be enforcing that.

Your mileage varies, no doubt.
Super-power
27-06-2005, 22:45
Wow.........
Vintovia
27-06-2005, 22:47
Still an undue restriction on free speech, in my opinion. I don't think people should be using any excuse to say hateful things, but nor do I think that the government should be enforcing that.

Your mileage varies, no doubt.

I have yet to formulate an opinion on this issue, please try again later.
British Socialism
27-06-2005, 22:49
God, if the government follow PC up to the point of banning parts of religious texts we are running into dangerous ground. This is practically religious persecution. You cant get rid of the bible, its one of the finest pieces of fiction ever written :D
Vintovia
27-06-2005, 22:51
God, if the government follow PC up to the point of banning parts of religious texts we are running into dangerous ground. This is practically religious persecution. You cant get rid of the bible, its one of the finest pieces of fiction ever written :D

Ouuuch, Im going to leave you out here to be pummelled by religious conservatives.
British Socialism
27-06-2005, 22:55
Ouuuch, Im going to leave you out here to be pummelled by religious conservatives.

Ah, but I have realised the failure of forum religious based pummellings...they arent real. Tempt the anger of anyone online, the nerds are exceptionally funny. *Pokes nerd with forum stick which they consider to be real*
Vintovia
27-06-2005, 22:57
Ha ha...nerds.
Vintovia
27-06-2005, 22:57
Wait, ive just spent half an hour of my life that I could be sleeping, on a forum...Im a nerd!!!!!
British Socialism
27-06-2005, 22:59
Wait, ive just spent half an hour of my life that I could be sleeping, on a forum...Im a nerd!!!!!

Not necessarily, sleeping only happens when you can be bothered to get up and if you need to go to bed you cant...its a terrible circle.
Leetistan
27-06-2005, 23:00
Hey nerds are ok...

Also the issue is not that they *are* saying now that they want to ban the bible and Qu'ran but that there remains the ability to do so. Why give them the tools to do this especially if they say they don't want to use them?
Vintovia
27-06-2005, 23:00
School ends on friday, exams are finished. of curse I cant be bothered to get up.
Mt-Tau
27-06-2005, 23:00
Wow, The gun folks were right. Take away ones self defence and look what happens. Honestly, look at all the crazy laws coming from Britian lately!
Vintovia
27-06-2005, 23:01
We are not crazy! we're just...Misguided.
British Socialism
27-06-2005, 23:03
School ends on friday, exams are finished. of curse I cant be bothered to get up.

School...what a terrible memory. I never went to bed in the summer after school...i was a bit of a nerd lol
British Socialism
27-06-2005, 23:05
Wow, The gun folks were right. Take away ones self defence and look what happens. Honestly, look at all the crazy laws coming from Britian lately!

Cant blame us for our government, the only reason labour is in power is because conservatives are crap and kennedy is ginger. Taking away our guns mean our schools dont get massacred so we can have a generation of people clever enough to argue with these laws. Plus the chavs...we can kill the chavs
BlackKnight_Poet
27-06-2005, 23:06
Brings back images of 1930's Nazi Germany does it not?
Vintovia
27-06-2005, 23:08
and kennedy is ginger.

Yes, that is a shame.

Plus the chavs...we can kill the chavs

Well, obviously.
Texpunditistan
27-06-2005, 23:12
*Pokes nerd with forum stick which they consider to be real*
*smacks BS in the forehead with a Catholic bible*

BE HEALED!

:p
British Socialism
27-06-2005, 23:15
*smacks BS in the forehead with a Catholic bible*

BE HEALED!

:p

Thats not very ethnically diverse, hit me with a qu'ran
Ravenshrike
27-06-2005, 23:18
Yes its real, but you dont understand, this article is biased and subjective.

The law simply says that it will be illegal to use the bible to portray a hateful or offensive message.In my opinion it will protect the bible from being used as a tool of hate, not a tool of love and kindness, like its supposed to be.

Bloody reactonaries.
W00T! Go thought-police. It's doubleplus good.
Texpunditistan
27-06-2005, 23:55
Thats not very ethnically diverse, hit me with a qu'ran
No. I hit you with a Catholic bible because they're usually more ornate and have more books than a regular Bible...and are therefore heavier. :D