NationStates Jolt Archive

During a debate about this issue or that one, there is invariably someone who jumps in with the following 'advice':

"Instead of sitting in front of your computer complaining about it, why don't you shut up and get out there and DO something about it!"

Well, people get tired of saying, "Part of doing something about it is discussing it. And do not assume that because it is being discussed right now, that I am not DOING something about it in RL as well. In fact, I (insert lengthy description of activities here)"

Just because you don't KNOW what the poster does, don't assume they do nothing but bitch and complain. Don't assume that action must happen independent of debate. Issues are not meant to be "acted upon, but not heard".

So, here is a chance for everyone, on whatever point along the political spectrum you might be to toot your own horn for once.

What actions do you take in RL to work on an issue you care about?

It can be volunteer or paid work, strategies you use everyday, etc etc. It's time to show NS how many of us simply bitch...and how many of us actually ACT.

I work at an organization designed to revitalize a progressive infrastructure in America to counteract the enormous conservative one.

Well, if anyone in my daily life tries to force me to quit smoking a cigarette when I'm in my rights, I shove it in their eye and dance around gibbering like a gleeful madman while they scream and bleed.

Other than that, most issues I care about (the free market, etc) are such hopeless cases that it's not worth my time and energy to do anything but exercise my constitutional right to grouse.

*snip*

Bitch and Moaner #1:)

When I have the necessary cash, I'm going to start my own business... and in so doing, provide jobs for people. And in so doing (hehe), show how (and that) free enterprise works.

Well the last time I tried to join an organisation, I was annoyed because it wasn't available for under-16s. Maybe I should try again now.

I plot. Really, I plot about how I'm going to manipulatively influence the world. Planning is important.

Let's see...

I've been in the military. For some that means I'm brainwashed (you've probably seen too many movies), and for others that means I've seen a bit.
I've worked at women's shelters (domestic violence shelters).
My wife and I shelter a woman in our home.
We both teach firearms classes to female victims of domestic violence.
I also teach Sunday school, and run a Cub Scout troop. So I'm trying to mold the next generation (in some way).
I have kids (boys and a girl) who will also be part of that next generation.

Bitch and Moaner #1:)

Hey I never claimed to be some great crusader for my ideals... I only challenge those who do, to put up or shut up.

Like all the anticapitalists who are typing anti-capitalism rants while using huge expensive computers made off the stripped flesh of underage southeast asian poor children.

I work at an organization designed to revitalize a progressive infrastructure in America to counteract the enormous conservative one.

Karl Rove said that the only reason Republicans won this last election is because they have a much wider, deeper, and more organized grass roots organization than the Democrats - an organization that can mobilize voters effectively. He didn't see that much difference between party ideologies.

I can agree that the Republicans kick ass in terms of organization. I don't know what the Democrats were thinking (or they very obviously weren't).

You're not going to revitalize anything with prominent members and spokespersons who call people rednecks, "Christians" (as a curse word), and "right wing extremists". I've watched people I was convinced were Democrats turn off the radio after a few minutes of Al Franken.

- my family has reduced our garbage from an average of two large garbage bags a week, to half a garbage bag. How? We took out the useless dishwasher and put in recycling bins which are conveniently accessible. We also have a compost in the backyard. My one shame is that the majority of the actual garbage left over is disposable diapers. Were I to use cloth, we would be left with almost no 'trash' at the end of each week.

- we installed a geothermal heating system in our house, saving ourselves over $1600 a year in heating/cooling costs. Cuts down on fossil fuel dependency, and gets us off the teat of the energy companies somewhat. We have had two open houses so far in our community to let people come in and see how the system really works, and talk about the cost and the method of installing it. Our town currently has 7 geothermal systems installed/being installed since we did ours.

- we pay the bucks for high energy efficient appliances...an incredible deepfreeze is our newest purchase, and it only draws 250 watts!!! Let me say that again...250 watts!!!!!

- last fall I helped to organise a "environment" week project in conjunction with the local schools. We revisited the idea of reducing, reusing and recycling with kids and community members. It was amazing at how much people had forgotten since the initial Three R's campaign began many years ago. We had local businesses pitch in to provide recycling containers for bottles and such alongside garbages around town, and we had composting centers put into the classrooms (which are great for teaching, but can't handle a lot of organic waste) and big compost centers in the back of each school. We had contests about the best plans to reduce and reuse, and we are in the midst of negotiations to get some land for the schools to have a student communal garden on.

Karl Rove said that the only reason Republicans won this last election is because they have a much wider, deeper, and more organized grass roots organization than the Democrats - an organization that can mobilize voters effectively. He didn't see that much difference between party ideologies.

I can agree that the Republicans kick ass in terms of organization. I don't know what the Democrats were thinking (or they very obviously weren't).

You're not going to revitalize anything with prominent members and spokespersons who call people rednecks, "Christians" (as a curse word), and "right wing extremists". I've watched people I was convinced were Democrats turn off the radio after a few minutes of Al Franken.
That's the point - to turn this whole thing around and create a new image and system for the Democrats. I don't think it's those individual's fault (I think they're amusing, but not really helping the cause and probably hurting it). It's a lack of personal interaction with voters. That's what's trying to get fixed.

- after only a week of living in this town, I witnessed a rather disturbing act of bullying, which I managed to break up before it got as serious as it seemed it was going to. After this, I was particularly sensitive to the issue, and seemed to notice it happening everywhere. This town has a serious generation gap...lots of really old folks, and lots of really young ones, and it seems that they don't notice each other than much and no one seems to be doing anything about the bullying. So, I started a bullying committee, and we've been reviewing community anti-bullying projects from around Canada (and a few in the States) to see what people would like to have here. In the meantime, we've been raising awareness about bullying and get ideas from community members. Work in progress.

- As much as is possible, the few 'things' that I purchase anymore, for gifts or for my family, are fair trade. I know it's not a perfect system...but it's something. Things sometimes cost more, but are usually of higher quality anyway, and as long as you research the particular co-op, you generally know what percentage the producer is getting and the conditions they work in. I've been completely NO-LOGO for 10 years now.

- I volunteer once a month at my home band (Reservation) with elders. I know it's not that much...but I live a few hours away now, and it's as much as I can manage. I admit, I do it for myself to, to keep in touch with my roots...but they really appreciate having someone to pass their knowledge onto, even if it's just in the form of stories about their lives. I usually take the girls on a Sunday, early, because I only volunteer with elders who are not directly related to me...meaning I put in long visits with my relations after, and it turns into an all-day thing:)

Oh come on people...surely there are more of you that ACT on your beliefs? It doesn't have to be earth-shaking in its effects...even daily living that has some impact...

i go to county comission (and other related) meetings to try to talk them out of county wide zoning.

That's the point - to turn this whole thing around and create a new image and system for the Democrats. I don't think it's those individual's fault (I think they're amusing, but not really helping the cause and probably hurting it). It's a lack of personal interaction with voters. That's what's trying to get fixed.

Well, the only substantial difference in policy I saw between Republicans and Democrats was the gun issue. We'd still be in Iraq now if Kerry were in office. And the economy is not the product of the President.

Until the Democratic Party enshrines the individual right to keep and bear arms in their party platform as inviolable (as the Republicans have done), I'll never vote Democratic as long as I live.

And to back that belief up, I am ALWAYS carrying a pistol.

Oh come on people...surely there are more of you that ACT on your beliefs? It doesn't have to be earth-shaking in its effects...even daily living that has some impact...

You forget that "working on issues" discussed in a political forum - like, you know, whether the USA should invade Iraq - is not my job.

If it's my job, then why aren't I an elected official? I'm not, so I'm not "just bitching and moaning" simply because I'm not Mister Pro Bono United Nations who, IN ADDITION to trying to live a normal life is trying to solve global issues. The best I can do is discuss them.

And finally what you are describing is not "acting on one's beliefs." Everyone does that pretty much by definition.

i go to county comission (and other related) meetings to try to talk them out of county wide zoning.
Awesome! Most people don't bother because a)it's incredibly boring and b) they don't know squat about what to do once they are there.

My mom actually really surprised me last year...the country had planned to let a guy put a feedlot on a quarter section of land across from my folk's land. It was to be high-intensity, hundreds of head of cattle on 160 acres. Aside from the obvious problems the neighbours had with it (smell of silage and manure ALL year round), my mom and others were particularly worried about water table contamination. So they commissioned a study of the water table (for a hefty fee, but hey...) and were able to prove to the county that this feedlot would have a negative impact on the water supplies of a very wide range of surrounding sections. The county sent the feedlot guy packing.


People DO have power...if they would only use it!

You forget that "working on issues" discussed in a political forum - like, you know, whether the USA should invade Iraq - is not my job.

If it's my job, then why aren't I an elected official? I'm not, so I'm not "just bitching and moaning" simply because I'm not Mister Pro Bono United Nations who, IN ADDITION to trying to live a normal life is trying to solve global issues. The best I can do is discuss them.

And finally what you are describing is not "acting on one's beliefs." Everyone does that pretty much by definition.
Hey, don't get me wrong SB...I agree that discussion is important. I just get sick of people who assume that it ISN'T, or that it is ALL people on NS do.

When I say, "acting on one's beliefs" I guess I mean thoughtful, planned action...so if you bitch about the environment, you live more cleanly too. Or if you bitch about poverty, you do something to help alleviate it, in some small way even.

I think you are wrong...I think you probably DO do things to back up what you say on this forum. Even if it is just talking about these issues in RL and making people think...

Well, the only substantial difference in policy I saw between Republicans and Democrats was the gun issue. We'd still be in Iraq now if Kerry were in office. And the economy is not the product of the President.
Hm. There's the tax issue, the gay marriage issue, the affirmative action issue, the abortion issue, the Court appointees, the Church/State issue - there are tons of differences.

Until the Democratic Party enshrines the individual right to keep and bear arms in their party platform as inviolable (as the Republicans have done), I'll never vote Democratic as long as I live.
Does that mean just Presidential?

And to back that belief up, I am ALWAYS carrying a pistol.
When showering?

You forget that "working on issues" discussed in a political forum - like, you know, whether the USA should invade Iraq - is not my job.
And by the way...who cares if it is your job or not? If you feel strongly enough about something, why wouldn't you act, even in some small way? Help out with a campaign of a politician you agree with...hell, just going out and voting with a clear idea of the issues in mind is better than nothing...give yourself SOME credit!

What actions do you take in RL to work on an issue you care about?

It can be volunteer or paid work, strategies you use everyday, etc etc. It's time to show NS how many of us simply bitch...and how many of us actually ACT.

I have held elected office twice at the local level. I have held leadership positions in numerous local groups and continue to remain active in the community. We financially support our political interests and as Christians we tithe our income - but the money (such as it is) goes to wherever we feel the need is the greatest, not a church. Many times that is at the local level, often to individuals.

I and friends for many years grew an acre of potatoes to sell to benefit a local youth program. The kids helped dig and sell them. We also kept a food kitchen supplied.

Hmph. I wish I done something. I once worked at a charity shop, but that was only a weeks work experience, so really... doesn't count....

OH YEAH! Right, it's really really minor, but in school, I was part of a group that turned up early with the younger students, and helped them if they had reading difficulties. I know that trying to help just one person become more literate isn't all that much though.



(Sinuhue, you have a telegram.)

Jordi's post reminds me...

...I'm very vocal and open about my support for sexual and gender minorities. It's caused me a bit of trouble here at work, where most of my coworkers are very fundamentalist Christian...but once they get to know me, they realise I'm not taking a militant stance or attacking their religion. I teach at a distance, and I didn't think my 'stance' would be well known by students, but I had one call me up to talk about the reason she'd left school in the first place (being a lesbian, she didn't feel safe and began homeschooling to avoid bullying) and to thank me for being 'supportive' (even though I'd really done nothing active to support her in parcticular....)

Stop ranting about people telling you to stop ranting and do something.

Environmentally: We recycle as much as possible, mulch quite a bit, and I started recylcing at work. I'm also saving up to install solar elec. to my house.

Politically: I write to my reps & senators about quite a few issues and vote in every election.

Economically: I try and buy from local businesses as much as I can even if I have to pay a few pennies more.

Stop ranting about people telling you to stop ranting and do something.
:D

Doesn't ranting about people telling you to stop ranting at people who tell you to stop ranting and do something count?

(Sin', another tellygram. But light and totally unimportant this time so njetski on the rushin' (See what I did there?) )

I hate to burst your bubble Sinuhue, but recycling is a gigantic waste of time and money. Not only is it more expensive to recycle [except for aluminum cans], but recycling is actually a manufacturing process that [at times] has adverse effects on the environement. Generally this is only a concern with recycling paper products, as the ink has to be bleached off and it leaves behind this sick looking chemical sludge.

A lot of people think they're saving trees when they recycle; they're not. Most of the paper we use comes from tree farms, which means that the best way to get more trees is actually [believe it or not] to waste more paper products. Trees are not endangered just because we use them; they're not endangered or scarce any more so than potatoes or carrots. Trees are a renewable resource.

I hate to burst your bubble Sinuhue, but recycling is a gigantic waste of time and money. Not only is it more expensive to recycle [except for aluminum cans], but recycling is actually a manufacturing process that [at times] has adverse effects on the environement. Generally this is only a concern with recycling paper products, as the ink has to be bleached off and it leaves behind this sick looking chemical sludge.

A lot of people think they're saving trees when they recycle; they're not. Most of the paper we use comes from tree farms, which means that the best way to get more trees is actually [believe it or not] to waste more paper products. Trees are not endangered just because we use them; they're not endangered or scarce any more so than potatoes or carrots. Trees are a renewable resource.

Interesting as to the paper arguement. Do you have a source?

I disagree on the metals. It is much more efficient to recycle metals than it is to mine/refine/shape from ore.

You also use less in the way of petroleums by recycling plastics.

Glass is not as much a resource but energy expended issue

Interesting as to the paper arguement. Do you have a source?

http://www.rgs.edu.sg/events/cyberfair98/recycling/process.html
End of the Second paragraph. Note they don't tell you what's done with the sludge.

I disagree on the metals. It is much more efficient to recycle metals than it is to mine/refine/shape from ore.
You're right. You must have misread me or something; I agree with you on this point: recycling aluminum or other metals works because it's cheaper and more efficient to re-use old cans than it is to dig up new ones. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said of most other things we recycle. Possibly all of them.

You also use less in the way of petroleums by recycling plastics.[/iquote]
I'm not too sure about this at all; plastic is very cheap and very easy to manufacture. To recycle it, you have to use more resources [gas, manpower, sorting, etc.] than would be necessary to make it from scratch.

[quote=Kecibukia]Glass is not as much a resource but energy expended issue
I don't worry about glass. Glass, in order to be recycled, has to essentially be melted down again, which is how it's made [from sand] in the first place. Since I don't see a looming sand crisis, I'm forced to admit I don't see a point in recycling glass either.

i plan to help the world by organizing my own political party, bent on world domin...i mean, world peace...yea peace

<snip>

A lot of people think they're saving trees when they recycle; they're not. Most of the paper we use comes from tree farms, which means that the best way to get more trees is actually [believe it or not] to waste more paper products. Trees are not endangered just because we use them; they're not endangered or scarce any more so than potatoes or carrots. Trees are a renewable resource.

Don't want to get to far off track from this thread - but I agree.

I'm a consulting forester - I have managed timberland for private landowners for 30 years. The timber resource in America is a phenomenal and renewable resource. Sustainable yield is practiced on the majority of private and all public land.

We are growing approximately three times more timber than we cut in the US. And it's professionally managed for the most part (except for a small percentage of small private landowners) and is in good hands.

One of the reasons why recycling paper isn't such a great idea is that they contain inks and binders, some of which are toxic - heavy metals, etc. Just more nasty stuff that can find it's way into the environment in discharge water, etc.

It's less expensive to make new paper than to recycle, and considering that there is no shortage of forest resource why bother? The recycling thing does have an emotional appeal, and while I'm glad that people care enough about the environment to go to the trouble, but it's not grounded in fact.

http://www.rgs.edu.sg/events/cyberfair98/recycling/process.html
End of the Second paragraph. Note they don't tell you what's done with the sludge.


You're right. You must have misread me or something; I agree with you on this point: recycling aluminum or other metals works because it's cheaper and more efficient to re-use old cans than it is to dig up new ones. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said of most other things we recycle. Possibly all of them.

[quote=Kecibukia]You also use less in the way of petroleums by recycling plastics.[/iquote]
I'm not too sure about this at all; plastic is very cheap and very easy to manufacture. To recycle it, you have to use more resources [gas, manpower, sorting, etc.] than would be necessary to make it from scratch.


I don't worry about glass. Glass, in order to be recycled, has to essentially be melted down again, which is how it's made [from sand] in the first place. Since I don't see a looming sand crisis, I'm forced to admit I don't see a point in recycling glass either.

Interesting read. I'll have to read up more on it.

As for glass, the main justification I've heard is less landfill.

I tend to donate my newpapers to the local animal shelter and use junk mail for firestarters in my burnbarrel.

About recycling, I think we shouldn't confuse 3 aspects:
1- resource depletion : Recycling slows down our use of both non-renewable and renewable resources.
2- environment : Recycling is not always good for the environment. For example, recycling glass involved the use of acids and a lot of energy. But argument #1 is more important I think.
3- storage: Big heaps of garbage take up a lot of space, pollute the water system in a nasty way, and cost a lot of money. Especially in big cities that suffer from urban sprawling. Recycling reduces this problem.





And you know what? Intra-industry recycling is as important as consumer recycling. In the paper industry, for example, they used to waste a huge % of their production (non-conform paper, waster batch, ...). Now instead of dumping their "bad batches", they throw them on a secondary production line and produce recycled paper and cardboard. These products have a lower market value but it's still better ($) for them than just dumping it. So it's good for the environment AND for their profit. But most people don't understand how much paper they used to waste, and how much recycled paper (ex: cereal boxed) come from this paper the companies have decided not to dump.

In Switzerland, the chocolate industry used to dump tons of bad chocolate (scrapes from the boilers, burnt stuff). Now they grind it, mix it with proteins and sell it in granulated form to pork producers.





I recycle a lot, and I also compost in my backyard. It's incredible the amount of vegetable peels, fruit pits, potato peels, egg shells, and other food stuff, that can go into composting. The only food products that I dump in the garbage can, are meat products, milk products and bread/pastry.

Same thing goes for recycling. They recycling bag is conveniently installed right beside the garbage can, in the kitchen. That's where most garbage is produced. In my toilet room, I also have a tiny recycling bin where we dump empty toilet paper rolls.

My waste/garbage volume went down in an incredible way (more than 70% I'd say), now we rarely fill our garbage can. If there is a garbage tax per volume or per weight someday, it won't cost me much.

I work at an organization designed to revitalize a progressive infrastructure in America to counteract the enormous conservative one.

Could you define "progressive" as it pertains to the core values of a democrat? I am assuming of course that the term "progressive" is not just another repackaging of the term "socialist" because it doesn't sell well.

I hate to burst your bubble Sinuhue, but recycling is a gigantic waste of time and money. Not only is it more expensive to recycle [except for aluminum cans], but recycling is actually a manufacturing process that [at times] has adverse effects on the environement. Generally this is only a concern with recycling paper products, as the ink has to be bleached off and it leaves behind this sick looking chemical sludge.

A lot of people think they're saving trees when they recycle; they're not. Most of the paper we use comes from tree farms, which means that the best way to get more trees is actually [believe it or not] to waste more paper products. Trees are not endangered just because we use them; they're not endangered or scarce any more so than potatoes or carrots. Trees are a renewable resource.
Don't worry Melkor...I am very aware of the downsides to recycling. However, I reduce first, reuse as much as possible, and recycle last. Before I buy something, I look at all the packaging and say, "Can I get it unpackaged, in bulk?" I try to buy condiments in glass jars to use later as slug traps in the garden, wasp traps, containers for change, etc etc. What little paper we consume actually usually ends up as starter for our fire pit. Bottles, cans and tetra packs we don't have much of, but we at least get to donate them to our 'charity of the month' at work, so someone can get some money from them. You can not consume to excess and think recycling makes it better...but it does make a difference IN CONJUNCTION with the other Rs. Pessimist:)

Liverbreath']Could you define "progressive" as it pertains to the core values of a democrat? I am assuming of course that the term "progressive" is not just another repackaging of the term "socialist" because it doesn't sell well.
It means liberal without all the negative connotations the term has taken on in the United States for some bizarre reason.

Since I don't see a looming sand crisis, I'm forced to admit I don't see a point in recycling glass either.
To lesson the amount of shite that goes into landfills.

<snip>

I recycle a lot, and I also compost in my backyard. It's incredible the amount of vegetable peels, fruit pits, potato peels, egg shells, and other food stuff, that can go into composting. The only food products that I dump in the garbage can, are meat products, milk products and bread/pastry.

Same thing goes for recycling. They recycling bag is conveniently installed right beside the garbage can, in the kitchen. That's where most garbage is produced. In my toilet room, I also have a tiny recycling bin where we dump empty toilet paper rolls.

My waste/garbage volume went down in an incredible way (more than 70% I'd say), now we rarely fill our garbage can. If there is a garbage tax per volume or per weight someday, it won't cost me much.

I agree with you - the amount of food waste available for composting is surprisingly large. I grow vegetablkes on 10,000 square of garden and it not only "eats" all my vegetable scraps but could handles that of hundreds more households. That's saves a lot of space in the landfill. And puts all those lovely plant nutrients back into the soil.

I understand why some people can't compost, but I'd like to see municipal composting. It can be done at very low cost and the main obstacle is public awareness and getting people to be bothered to sort out the scraps.

Vermicomposting should be done in any place that has a cafeteria. Think of the food waste at any university that could be turned into fertilizer. It's economically viable - just needs people to see this as an alternative to landfills and incinerators.

Vermicomposting should be done in any place that has a cafeteria. Think of the food waste at any university that could be turned into fertilizer. It's economically viable - just needs people to see this as an alternative to landfills and incinerators.
Except the worms can only handle so much input...and red wigglers tend not to like citrus fruits...vermicomposters are good teaching tools, but not great for handling a lot of waste.

Hey, don't get me wrong SB...I agree that discussion is important. I just get sick of people who assume that it ISN'T, or that it is ALL people on NS do.

When I say, "acting on one's beliefs" I guess I mean thoughtful, planned action...so if you bitch about the environment, you live more cleanly too. Or if you bitch about poverty, you do something to help alleviate it, in some small way even.

I think you are wrong...I think you probably DO do things to back up what you say on this forum. Even if it is just talking about these issues in RL and making people think...

Making people think? You give me far too much credit. ;)

I guess I do, but I don't feel like listing 'little things' like that. I vote, sure, and I also leave the toilet seat in the position I find it in. Really I don't feel as strongly about 'issues' as it might seem from reading what I write on these boards.

Making people think? You give me far too much credit. ;)

I guess I do, but I don't feel like listing 'little things' like that. I vote, sure, and I also leave the toilet seat in the position I find it in. Really I don't feel as strongly about 'issues' as it might seem from reading what I write on these boards.
And you seem so rabidly political...

And you seem so rabidly political...

That's what politics is about. Pretending to care about things so people pay you attention and power and then using issues to manipulate and control just for the fun of it. :)

Except the worms can only handle so much input...and red wigglers tend not to like citrus fruits...vermicomposters are good teaching tools, but not great for handling a lot of waste.

No question that there are minor technical issues but this is way beyond the pioneer stage. They have been in production for many years. Here's a reactor system - just add food to the top and castings come out the bottom - simple:

http://www.wormwigwam.com/wormbins.htm

General background and production capability of large systems:

http://www.jgpress.com/BCArticles/2000/110051.html

If you do some serious googling you'll find a lot of successful large-scale vermiculture. But large-scale composting can be done by other means, windrowing and tumblers come to mind. The city of Milwaukee processes sewage to make and sell Mil-Organite in massive quantities.

I think the reactor systems, capable of say 250 pounds of scrap per day and costing maybe $100,000, are feasible for institutional use.