NationStates Jolt Archive

Basically, the reason I'm asking is because... A while ago, I told my story on here on how my Navy recruiters were very rude and have been doing illegal things at their recruiting office. One sailor was compelled by my story, but felt it was just a single case, and that my recruiter should be sent on a ship, for not taking his job seriously. Well, I backed out of it, because the guy is the son of a friend of my mom's, and thought I should just let it go.

To summarize what happened: I signed up to join with the Navy. The recruiter encouraged me to lie on the forms, for even basic stuff like whether or not I've had braces, and lied to me about their "cash assistance" program. I'd gotten a 97 on the ASVAB and they said that because of that, I could recieve college money before bootcamp. Every month, they'd say, "We're still waiting for the budget." At one point, me, my mother, and a friend of her's called and a chief said it was put through and that I'd be recieving money in a couple of weeks. When I was at the next meeting, none of them knew what I was talking about, they said that they cancelled the program (despite the fact that I heard others were being paid), and I didn't know the name of the Chief we spoke with.

At another point, a chief offered to take me on an orientation for a ship. I asked him when to call about it, and he said he'd call me. He never called. Next time I saw him, he said the trip was full, but was planning his own trip on a smaller ship. Once again, it never came through.

I originally was going to join the army, but when I asked about my chance of going to Iraq, the army recruiter insulted my patriotism, and also made a comment about my mother, who is ex-Navy, being "afraid" to talk about these issues. When I told him she has Parkinson's disease and was in the car resting, he fumbled, "Oh.. sorry..."

And finally, I called the Center on Conscience and War, and they explained that any contract you sign with the military is not legally binding until you go to bootcamp, and that if I didn't want to join, to cease any contact with the military. I did that, but the recruiter harassed us, banging on our front door several times a day, for several days. A couple months later, he had someone else call under another number. When they found out it was me, I told them: I'm a psychology major, so he can't play any mind games, I'm not obligated to give him any reason, and I know the law, so there's nothing he can do. After that, he said he didn't care, because he had already "discharged" me, for being gay (which I'm not. I told him when I first joined that I had a girlfriend and I also told him I hadn't been showing up to several meetings because I was upset over being dumped by her).

But, I decided to let it go... Until, months later (just recently), a friend of mine signed up for the army at the same office. And another recruiter I know there said that in my forms, they discharged me for being gay. This is slander, a homophobic lie, and these people disgrace the U.S. military and should all be sent on ships in the middle of fucking nowhere.

I'm planning on calling the ACLU, the Center on Conscience and War, and probably some other people. If any sailors (or other military people) have any advice, I'd appreciate it. Perhaps it's not the entire military recruiting operation, but you can at least agree, these people were rude and unprofessional. While I was in the program, we were supposed to go on trips. But all we ever did was hang out in their office, goof around, and occassionally do training. It was pathetic, and their shoddy operation is one of the main reasons why I quit.

Would you be able to swear this oath:

, {insert name here}, do solemnly swear, or affirm, that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.

Would you be able to swear this oath:

, {insert name here}, do solemnly swear, or affirm, that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.
Yes, if that truly means I should "support and defend the Constitution", not fight wars based on lies, because of politics. But I'm not a coward, as I'm planning on joining the British Navy.

I hope it works out for you.

Yes, if that truly means I should "support and defend the Constitution", not fight wars based on lies, because of politics. But I'm not a coward, as I'm planning on joining the British Navy.

Just out of interest, how do you plan to join the RN, as I am pretty sure, although by no means certain, that you have to be at least a commonwealth citizen who has british nationality to join.

Im in the US Navy and i have no problem taking the oath, didnt when i took it either. As for the recruiters, they're just bad and bring a bad name to the US Navy, and really the US Military as a whole. But i really dont have any advice..sorry. Hope all goes well for you.

Just out of interest, how do you plan to join the RN, as I am pretty sure, although by no means certain, that you have to be at least a commonwealth citizen who has british nationality to join.
Yeah you do have to at least be a Commonwealth citizen or an Irish citizen though I would imagine a waiver can be given. I'm not very sure how often that happens. And you must be a British citizen to be an officer or in some special fields like submarines. You know, you're the second person I've heard say that he or she wants to join the RN because the US navy recruiters are bad. Someone in May made a similar post as you here on this forum. If you're interested Pres. Shrub, here's the url

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=418100&page=1&pp=15

(edit: had to find the link)

I agree with the part about the damn recruiters lying at times. I recently finished my 4 years in the Marine Corps, and boy am I glad. I can pretty much sum it up with "The best thing I ever did was get out of the Marines, and the 2nd best thing was going in." The way I look at it is that it was some of the greatest times in my life, and some of the worst. I feel that I did manage to learn a few things from it along the way at least. Dealing with your aspect, no, you were not discharged, because you were only in the delayed entry program. You are not a member of the armed forces until you are done with boot camp (gotta process you into it and all) and you can actually get out of the contract in boot camp as well. I had the opportunity to return home from boot, (as I had been injured) but could not do it. I'm glad I followed through, but for whatever reason, for those who don't, maybe they didn't educate themselves first. I've seen people claim that they were gay in order to be processed out of boot camp. I wouldn't recommend that, as others just flat out refused to do anything. Thereby being processed out as well. I had about a 90 on my asvab, was promised any job, but still got yanked around. Yes, I was screwed over in many was, be it promotion or getting what I should have upon entering into service. The best thing to do is find a few people who were in. Find out the good, and the bad. Then you need to weigh the costs.One good thing (that I deserve) is medical treatment for any injuries i've had while in, for the rest of my life. 10 years down the road, hey, it's in my record, they gotta take care of it. Anyway, i'm proud of having done something that few have even considered. Make sure you ask others about their experiences. Find a local VFW or something. Ask me, just ask someone other than the recruiters as well. They're not all bad, but it can't hurt to be prepared. :sniper:

Basically, the reason I'm asking is because... A while ago, I told my story on here on how my Navy recruiters were very rude and have been doing illegal things at their recruiting office. One sailor was compelled by my story, but felt it was just a single case, and that my recruiter should be sent on a ship, for not taking his job seriously. Well, I backed out of it, because the guy is the son of a friend of my mom's, and thought I should just let it go.

To summarize what happened: I signed up to join with the Navy. The recruiter encouraged me to lie on the forms, for even basic stuff like whether or not I've had braces, and lied to me about their "cash assistance" program. I'd gotten a 97 on the ASVAB and they said that because of that, I could recieve college money before bootcamp. Every month, they'd say, "We're still waiting for the budget." At one point, me, my mother, and a friend of her's called and a chief said it was put through and that I'd be recieving money in a couple of weeks. When I was at the next meeting, none of them knew what I was talking about, they said that they cancelled the program (despite the fact that I heard others were being paid), and I didn't know the name of the Chief we spoke with.

At another point, a chief offered to take me on an orientation for a ship. I asked him when to call about it, and he said he'd call me. He never called. Next time I saw him, he said the trip was full, but was planning his own trip on a smaller ship. Once again, it never came through.

I originally was going to join the army, but when I asked about my chance of going to Iraq, the army recruiter insulted my patriotism, and also made a comment about my mother, who is ex-Navy, being "afraid" to talk about these issues. When I told him she has Parkinson's disease and was in the car resting, he fumbled, "Oh.. sorry..."

And finally, I called the Center on Conscience and War, and they explained that any contract you sign with the military is not legally binding until you go to bootcamp, and that if I didn't want to join, to cease any contact with the military. I did that, but the recruiter harassed us, banging on our front door several times a day, for several days. A couple months later, he had someone else call under another number. When they found out it was me, I told them: I'm a psychology major, so he can't play any mind games, I'm not obligated to give him any reason, and I know the law, so there's nothing he can do. After that, he said he didn't care, because he had already "discharged" me, for being gay (which I'm not. I told him when I first joined that I had a girlfriend and I also told him I hadn't been showing up to several meetings because I was upset over being dumped by her).

But, I decided to let it go... Until, months later (just recently), a friend of mine signed up for the army at the same office. And another recruiter I know there said that in my forms, they discharged me for being gay. This is slander, a homophobic lie, and these people disgrace the U.S. military and should all be sent on ships in the middle of fucking nowhere.

I'm planning on calling the ACLU, the Center on Conscience and War, and probably some other people. If any sailors (or other military people) have any advice, I'd appreciate it. Perhaps it's not the entire military recruiting operation, but you can at least agree, these people were rude and unprofessional. While I was in the program, we were supposed to go on trips. But all we ever did was hang out in their office, goof around, and occassionally do training. It was pathetic, and their shoddy operation is one of the main reasons why I quit.

I believe you posted under another name before, with the same story, so I'll give you the same advice.

When you join the military, you aren't doing it for the money. If you are, you're not only doing it for the wrong reasons, but in the final analysis, when bad things happen and you have to act, you will do the wrong thing and either get killed or allow others to be killed.

The military is also not in the business of caring for your mother, as harsh as that seems.

I was in the Army, and I found nothing shoddy about the training I received, nor in the assignments I was given, and I was in the infantry. If you're in the armed forces, and you're assigned to Iraq, it's much better to be in the infantry - you ride around with the people who kill - rather than being a truck driver or cook where you are only a target with minimal ability to defend yourself.

Being in the military is not a standard civilian job. People who think it is, or who believe in the crap that every recruiter will tell you, end up being major trouble in real units - navy or otherwise. The work is hard. The pay is low. You will do things you would ordinarily never do.

Let's take work hours for instance. Even on a ship, you're going to be pulling far more than an 8 hour work day - you're going to do your regular work day, and stand watches and do all the work you couldn't fit into that - and that's if your superiors don't find something else for you to do. It's not always that busy, but it can be. And you don't get paid extra.

If you're in ground forces, you can expect days without any sleep, days without any food, and constant activity with little or no stopping - it's called "maintaining the tempo of operations". In other words, our side keeps fighting without stop to wear down the enemy who thinks that eventually we'll need to lay down and rest.

You are joining for the wrong reasons. I'll say it again. You are joining for the wrong reasons.

Either join to be a professional, or don't join at all.

Pog

You are joining for the wrong reasons. I'll say it again. You are joining for the wrong reasons.

Either join to be a professional, or don't join at all.
If those are your standards, then please don't get to pissed about "people who have never made a sacrifice".

If those are your standards, then please don't get to pissed about "people who have never made a sacrifice".

I don't get too pissed about people who never made a sacrifice as long as they know that they haven't. Most won't admit that they aren't professional enough, not dedicated enough, and unwilling to make sacrifices, even to their own causes, let alone anyone else's.

I respect people who can dedicate themselves to actual sacrifice in a cause. I can respect the people who run to Canada and give up everything - I can respect the guy who straps on 30 kilos of explosives and blows himself up - but I have NO respect and nothing but contempt for people who NEVER sacrifice anything except that next beer while talking shit about "what's going on in Iraq" when they've never been there and never will be.

I don't get too pissed about people who never made a sacrifice as long as they know that they haven't. Most won't admit that they aren't professional enough, not dedicated enough, and unwilling to make sacrifices, even to their own causes, let alone anyone else's.
Sorry, but it comes across that way...

I respect people who can dedicate themselves to actual sacrifice in a cause. I can respect the people who run to Canada and give up everything - I can respect the guy who straps on 30 kilos of explosives and blows himself up - but I have NO respect and nothing but contempt for people who NEVER sacrifice anything except that next beer while talking shit about "what's going on in Iraq" when they've never been there and never will be.
I can understand that you wouldn't have any respect for anyone that's never done anything in their life, but this is the internet. You can't really know whether the person you're talking to ever did or didn't do something. I think in this case people deserve the benefit of the doubt.

Sorry, but it comes across that way...

I can understand that you wouldn't have any respect for anyone that's never done anything in their life, but this is the internet. You can't really know whether the person you're talking to ever did or didn't do something. I think in this case people deserve the benefit of the doubt.

In this case, the poster Shrub has indicated that he hasn't done anything.

Nor does he have any inclination to make any sacrifices - he wants his money up front, before he does anything.

Well, if money is all he wants, then money is what he'll get.

Your friend is quite the mercenary

Strange, when I signed up for the Navy ('92), nobody lied to me, and I moslty enjoyed the time in (6yrs). I only got out because I didn't want to be stationed overseas for 3 yrs.

Signed up for the NG in '98. Nobody lied to me then either. Got out in '01.

Just signed up for the Army Res. in Nov. of last year. Once again the recruiters didn't lie to me about anything and I go to the office regularly to help them out.

The only times I've seen them get attitudes w/ people is when they get the "I'm only joining for the money", "This is the last thing I wanted to do but.." lines, or try and jerk the recruiters around w/ actually signing.

Just out of interest, how do you plan to join the RN, as I am pretty sure, although by no means certain, that you have to be at least a commonwealth citizen who has british nationality to join.
I'm a dual-citizen, father's from Scotland, and he had me registered with the government when I was young. Originally, that meant I was a citizen, but they've since changed that. So, right now, I am a "British national", which means I can go there and serve in most jobs in the military, but I'd have to apply for citizenship.

You are joining for the wrong reasons. I'll say it again. You are joining for the wrong reasons.

Either join to be a professional, or don't join at all.
It's not mutually-exclusive. I read several stories of soldiers who'd been wounded in Iraq, and some of them joined for the benefits, not the glory.

Anyway, I haven't gotten over to their office yet, but I'll be over there, soon. My plan is just to walk in and ask to speak to their chief.