NationStates Jolt Archive

Dear Members,

I don't see why we should if it does happen have to make the draft mandatory. What about the kids who don't wanna get shot or kill other people, what about the kids who wanna pursue their ultimate dreams, what about the kids who don't want to think of war. Your mom carries you for nine months, and I think it's such a waste, a mother has to go through none months of constant worry and pain, only to see her child wounded or dead. Say if this draft was to be enacted,some kids who had big dreams could be crushed by something like war which never solves anything but only fuels hate and more hate. What a waste the draft would be, for kids who don't wanna anything to do with war.

Errr....I think this is in the wrong part of the Forum. You writing up something for the UN?

Oh yes, and what if America was invaded, then the chance for all those bright young children is gone when the new dictator takes over and oppresses the American people.

So don't insult what you don't know you damn hippy. You say that war isn't neccasary, that's true, but it happens anyway, and self defence is neccasary, that also includes the defence of ideals and allies. So what if some bright kids have to lay down their lives so that their children can have what they were robbed of. Some times people have to sacrifice so that they can assure the presevation of their descendants dreams, It's the selfishnous of people like you that make me sick.

Errr....I think this is in the wrong part of the Forum. You writing up something for the UN?
No acctually it's American news, Bush is planning to reinstate the draft. And I don't think that EU citizens should post here after all this has nothing to do with you, but I'm just using my 1st.

No acctually it's American news, Bush is planning to reinstate the draft. And I don't think that EU citizens should post here after all this has nothing to do with you, but I'm just using my 1st.

Ah..Thought it might be for the game, since it started with "Dear Members". As to the Bush bit, I've known about that for about a year now, and most people here (America, forgot to mention where I was) fervently deny that it'd get through, that it'd be political suicide, etc. If it gets through, I'm movin' to Canada..well, actually, I'm planning on moving there, regardless, but it'd just expidite things.

Edit: Mind you, I don't think there should be one. Bush is the cause of our forces being spread far too thing globaly, which, I believe, is what's being used to justified the draft.

Oh yes, and what if America was invaded, then the chance for all those bright young children is gone when the new dictator takes over and oppresses the American people.

Oh right. Let's just hear your theories on who, how, and when America will be invaded shall we?

You say that war isn't neccasary, that's true, but it happens anyway,

lol sorry just felt that quote needed repeating for true humor

So what if some bright kids have to lay down their lives so that their children can have what they were robbed of.

Umm... right. By robbing bright kids of their lives (and preventing them from HAVING children) we're protecting these non-existent children from having their lives robbed? ;) Sounds kind of like circular reasoning to me.

Some times people have to sacrifice so that they can assure the presevation of their descendants dreams, It's the selfishnous of people like you that make me sick.

...unless the people who do the sacrificing have no descendents, and people like you sit at home eating Cheetos recommending other people sacrifice themselves so that you won't feel sick.

Vomit in a bucket or something.

What about the kids who don't wanna get shot or kill other people,

There are more positions in the military than grunt and fodder.

what about the kids who wanna pursue their ultimate dreams

This one made me chuckle. Its Iraq, not the Somme.

what about the kids who don't want to think of war

They were born into a world where people are not content to live and let live. Don't want to think about war, they were born on the wrong planet. I don't think we've had one year in the past 5000 where there was not somewhere on the planet some kind of war.

Your mom carries you for nine months, and I think it's such a waste, a mother has to go through none months of constant worry and pain, only to see her child wounded or dead.

More people get maimed by cars than soldiers die in Iraq. Again this isn't exactly trench warfare.

Say if this draft was to be enacted,some kids who had big dreams could...

Fulfill them slightly later and with GI bill funding. Of course it could also be argued that the civilian net doesn't really have a great track record when it comes to fulfilling dreams either.

theres only one reason I dont believe in a draft, and its because I dont think people should be forced to fight. If they want to go ahead, but a draft is coercion. Unless it was for self-defense and absolutely neccesary then It shouldnt be instated.

When did the draft get re-instated? Last I checked, there was no plans for it.

theres only one reason I dont believe in a draft, and its because I dont think people should be forced to fight. If they want to go ahead, but a draft is coercion. Unless it was for self-defense and absolutely neccesary then It shouldnt be instated.
Yeah I always wondered how they got around the whole no slavery thing, isn't that the 13th amendment? I can see the point of a draft when the enemy is landing on your shores with hordes of troops but a unnecessary war of choice like Iraq or Vietnam before it? The only reason I think a draft would be good is that it would certainly tipp public support massively against the war.

rumsfeld said it could take as much as 12 years... so i dont see how their cant be one.

Draft = conscript garrison forces to deal with things in Iraq while the professionals go and conquer Iran. Always plausible. A small, professional military can't afford to be a vastly spread-out occupation force... and instead of not being vastly spread-out, it's far more likely that we'll just make it less impractical for us to be vastly spread-out.

Draft = conscript garrison forces to deal with things in Iraq while the professionals go and conquer Iran. Always plausible. A small, professional military can't afford to be a vastly spread-out occupation force... and instead of not being vastly spread-out, it's far more likely that we'll just make it less impractical for us to be vastly spread-out.
Perhaps but it seems toppling regiemes is much much easier than subduing insurgencies. It is much easier to click a button and send a laser guided bomb into a bunker than to spot the antenea of a roadside bomb buried under the sand.

Well, I dont beleive a draft should be enstated myself, because if the US falls, the people that did not fight for it should have to pay the consequences. I love my country, and I will risk my life for my country, I will fight for my country, and I will die for my country, as I will for my family, and the American way of life. If you are not willing to fight for America, you should not be here then, as it is for any citizen of any country.

You know, it's funny how the people who keep bringing up both the possibility of reinstating conscription and the specter thereof are always Democrats. Sounds like a whole lotta hot air to me.

While I am personally against forced military service, I can understand a draft if it is absolutly nesscesary to ensure the defense of the country. If the country itself is not in jeapordy than a draft is unessesary. While defending other nations may be justified, it is the job of a volunteer military. What I find particularily unnerving is that under current us conscription laws, only men are eligible to be drafted. In fact women are forbidden from many types of military service. Whatever happened to equal rights?

Oh yes, and what if America was invaded, then the chance for all those bright young children is gone when the new dictator takes over and oppresses the American people.

This scenario will never occur in our lifetimes, because our military has spent (and in some cases wasted) forty years building up for that kind of a war (Th Cold War for ignorant people). The new methods of war are based on protecting the peace in foriegn nations where this scenario is taking place in other governments. However, this style of combat is inhgerently voluntary, as how the UN functions, and I beleive for it to be decently moral should keep that aspect intact throughout the military's system.

Also, I beleive that this democracy will cave in centuries before it crumbles on the outside. Democracy dies with celebration. Every fallen democracy since the industrial revolution has been destroyed by an ignorant, single minded dictatorship that gained the false hope of the soon to be oppressed.

Your argument is therefore unrealistic and must be regaurded as so.

{your point} :mp5:

You know, it's funny how the people who keep bringing up both the possibility of reinstating conscription and the specter thereof are always Democrats. Sounds like a whole lotta hot air to me.
Cuz all Republicans ever say is: "The insurgency is collapsing! Victory is immenent!! Smoke 'em out! Mission accoplished! Yee ha! Purple thumb!"

Funny, I've heard Bush, Rummy, Rice, and others say on multiple occasions that we're in for a long, tough fight, that we mustn't lose heart and so forth.

Anyhow, attacking the Republicans doesn't change the fact that the draft isn't going to happen in the foreseeable future, and the Dems are just spouting off about it to spread fear.

Funny, I've heard Bush, Rummy, Rice, and others say on multiple occasions that we're in for a long, tough fight, that we mustn't lose heart and so forth.

Anyhow, attacking the Republicans doesn't change the fact that the draft isn't going to happen in the foreseeable future, and the Dems are just spouting off about it to spread fear.
They have no idea of where Iraq is going or how to end the war. They just say whatever pollsters tell them will boost their popularity for the week. Iraq holds an election won week and its "we are turning the corner!" US suffers dozens of deaths the next week and its "we're in for a long tough fight".

Conservatives tend to lie to conceal their plan for conscription, and will then probably go through with it while nobody is looking. They did it with the patriot act, the iraq war, giving rights to the fetus, and they'll probably try to do it again.

They are also idealists, as they are claiming victory in iraq, when in fact the situation is so dire that a reinstated draft is in question.

On another note, I would like it if every1 gave some background to their opinion. I'm 15, so a draft would immenently crush my social life within 2 years. I'm aggravated by war mongering 40 yr olds who are just pissed at tax money used for bombs we didnt use, and who have never been in a draft

No acctually it's American news, Bush is planning to reinstate the draft. And I don't think that EU citizens should post here after all this has nothing to do with you, but I'm just using my 1st.


Please provide proof or evidence that Bush is planning to reinstate the draft, and when or if you do, please note the people who are sponsoring the bill... I think you will find they are not republicans... :sniper:

There may be new news that i have not yet received, but last time I checked Bush was VERY opposed to ANY type of national draft. Pre-election Dems. used this issue as a smear tactic, and it failed. ;)

I will decide when, where and for what reasons I decide to fight for what I stand for and believe in, not the governments. They can draft the whole US as far as I'm concearned, but I wolud never serve one day for this country's corrupted government's agenda. AND THERE IS NOT ONE THING ANYONE CAN DO ABOUT IT! You want to be a sacrificial lamb in somebody elses vision, by all means, join the milatary today. END OF CONVERSATION!

but last time I checked Bush was VERY opposed to ANY type of national draft.

Ah yes but thats what the neocons do. They act one way in avor of the national concensus, but then they make exaggerated, idealist claims of patriotism, slap on some rwb lapel pins, and warp the news to hide the truth. They've done it throughout this administration. All of a sudden all the lower class high schoolers are off to iraq in a pointless, vain struggle.

On another note, I would like it if every1 gave some background to their opinion. I'm 15, so a draft would immenently crush my social life within 2 years.

Awww, poor widdle baby doesn't want to compromise his social life? That has got to be the most juvenile reason I've ever heard for opposing the draft. But you don't have to worry about losing your precious friends; the draft is a figment of liberals' overheated imaginations. What does the US military want conscripts for? The army will be huge (and consequently very expensive) and conscripts fight worse than volunteers anyhow.

Awww, poor widdle baby doesn't want to compromise his social life? That has got to be the most juvenile reason I've ever heard for opposing the draft. But you don't have to worry about losing your precious friends; the draft is a figment of liberals' overheated imaginations. What does the US military want conscripts for? The army will be huge (and consequently very expensive) and conscripts fight worse than volunteers anyhow.
What do you expect? He's 15. Nothing kills a 15-year-olds sense of self-worth like fighting a war he never asked to be in. I'm in the Navy. It's not so bad. Still, service just isn't for everyone. If citizens were straight-up drafted, this country would tear itself apart. However, I can see the government boosting the military career option through increased awareness campaigns, if they feel the need. This would mean that everyone of service age gets called at 3 a.m. every morning for as long as they resist the idea of "voluntarily" visiting their local recruiting station. Go ahead and laugh. How do you think they got me?

A friend has a good quote on her wall, it applies for us Australians (and where I was born, Britian), maybe it applies for you Americans too:

If you can read this...
Thank a teacher

If you can read this in English...
Thank a veteran

Awww, poor widdle baby doesn't want to compromise his social life? That has got to be the most juvenile reason I've ever heard for opposing the draft. But you don't have to worry about losing your precious friends; the draft is a figment of liberals' overheated imaginations. What does the US military want conscripts for? The army will be huge (and consequently very expensive) and conscripts fight worse than volunteers anyhow.

Thats not quite what i meant, i mean the society of a generation of the us would be destroyed not just mine. Besides, you probably have nothing to lose but tax money, its our lives! Also, at this rate a draft is almost inevitable, as US numbers arent rising because renlistment rates are dropping like a stone. Neocons dwell only in the present, never in the future. There's no telling how long this will last, rummy estimated it as being up to twelve years. There would be no way our numbers would remain rigid for that amount of time.

My ultimate conclusion is that iraq was a ploy set up by neocon idealists who have nothing to lose but pocket change and a reputation, which is easily solved by outsourcing their gargantuan companies.

I honestly think that the United States of America is the worst country in the world. Your government is not egalitarian and you have no public health system. I think you need a new President or (even better) become a part of the British Commonwealth again!

I feel like the US is just like a 5 year old:

"I want oil! GIMME GIMME!" *punch Iraq*
"now, now USA! thats not yours!"
"But he said he was gunna hit me!"

and yes I was reminded of patton oswalt after I finished that

(what is this biblevania? "no, its bethlehem" I WANT A WATER SLIDE!)

This would mean that everyone of service age gets called at 3 a.m. every morning for as long as they resist the idea of "voluntarily" visiting their local recruiting station. Go ahead and laugh. How do you think they got me?
Thank you, no, I had enough of that when I turned 18 and again when I earned my BA. He was unfailingly polite (small town, one recruter for all branches), but I got really tired of having the same conversation every other day with him.

Him: *Nice speach on military service in the branch of the day*

Me: That sounds good, but I am compleatly deaf in one ear.

Him: Are you sure?

Me: Yes... pretty sure.

Him: When did this happen?

Me: Since I was born.

Him: Are you sure?

Repeat for about a year.

I honestly think that the United States of America is the worst country in the world.

no we arent, but whats sad is we are one of the best :(

i cant wait until I move to the netherlands

And I don't think that EU citizens should post here after all this has nothing to do with you, but I'm just using my 1st.

Er why not? You do know that if you have green soliders in Iraq whilst all your pro's are off invading Iran, your gonna be calling the Blackwatch, Paras etc to bail you out of some trouble or another, so I am afraid it does concern us.

If a national draft does get called up, then all draft dodgers and disenters, should be immediately thrown into the front line, this can only accomplish good.
Its a no loss situaltion here, if they refuse to advance and fight, we shoot them from behind, thus acomplishing getting rid of this burden on our society with all their cracked up views on crime, punishment, open slather abortion, social engineering of familys, socialism etc
And if they do actually advance and fight, then the enemy will shoot them thus accomplishing the above again, and as an added bonus, stop and use up bullets , that could kill or maim good patriotic kids, who sign up volunteerily, or get drafted with no complaint.

If a national draft does get called up, then all draft dodgers and disenters, should be immediately thrown into the front line, this can only accomplish good.
Its a no loss situaltion here, if they refuse to advance and fight, we shoot them from behind, thus acomplishing getting rid of this burden on our society with all their cracked up views on crime, punishment, open slather abortion, social engineering of familys, socialism etc
And if they do actually advance and fight, then the enemy will shoot them thus accomplishing the above again, and as an added bonus, stop and use up bullets , that could kill or maim good patriotic kids, who sign up volunteerily, or get drafted with no complaint.
This is all an act, right? Please tell me this post is just part of an act.

I remember the US election and wernt both sides saying the other would reintroduce the draft?

In any case Somethings rotten in the state of Denmark!

This is all an act, right? Please tell me this post is just part of an act.
This is Chewie we're talking about, of course it isn't.

This is all an act, right? Please tell me this post is just part of an act.

No, it isnt. This is a good idea.
The Left are just now redundant to society, and serve little purpose except as a disruption to what should be normal life for most, eg: criminal gets loosed apon society because of dumb libertarian views, and despite repeat offences' is allowed to continue hurting innocent people.
Solution to this is to rid us of dumb people who encourage these laws to be passed.
So drafting them all to the front line for disenting, would be in effect, good.
Have a nice day.

Er why not? You do know that if you have green soliders in Iraq whilst all your pro's are off invading Iran, your gonna be calling the Blackwatch, Paras etc to bail you out of some trouble or another, so I am afraid it does concern us.
The very same Blackwatch that said we bet Hitler we bet Napolean we can win here too?

To bad they were field battles not garrison duty where everyones the enemy.
*The Blackwatch are a'right for a bunch of jocks.LOL

Oh right. Let's just hear your theories on who, how, and when America will be invaded shall we?



lol sorry just felt that quote needed repeating for true humor



Umm... right. By robbing bright kids of their lives (and preventing them from HAVING children) we're protecting these non-existent children from having their lives robbed? ;) Sounds kind of like circular reasoning to me.



...unless the people who do the sacrificing have no descendents, and people like you sit at home eating Cheetos recommending other people sacrifice themselves so that you won't feel sick.

Vomit in a bucket or something.
China, North Korea, or even Russia.

Dumb ass no one prevents them from having children when they are drafted.

Yo fuck face, I'm joining the fucking services, though I'm debating between choosing the Army or the Marines. I think I'll go for Army Rangers, yep that's what I'll do.

I get the feeling that Bush just wants to keep the body-bag manufacturers in business if he re-instates the draft.
Mind you the US military worked so well during the 1960's and 1970's when service was compulsory and there was a war that no one wanted. (Total sarcasm here, folks!)

No, it isnt. This is a good idea.
The Left are just now redundant to society, and serve little purpose except as a disruption to what should be normal life for most, eg: criminal gets loosed apon society because of dumb libertarian views, and despite repeat offences' is allowed to continue hurting innocent people.
Solution to this is to rid us of dumb people who encourage these laws to be passed.
So drafting them all to the front line for disenting, would be in effect, good.
Have a nice day.
After reading this, I have to say that you're either doing a terrific job of role-playing a dumbass conservative or you're a dumbass conservative (as opposed to legit conservatives who aren't dumbasses). I mean, "criminal gets loosed apon society because of dumb libertarian views?" If you don't know the difference between liberal and libertarian....jeez.

After reading this, I have to say that you're either doing a terrific job of role-playing a dumbass conservative or you're a dumbass conservative (as opposed to legit conservatives who aren't dumbasses). I mean, "criminal gets loosed apon society because of dumb libertarian views?" If you don't know the difference between liberal and libertarian....jeez.

thank you very much

This scenario will never occur in our lifetimes, because our military has spent (and in some cases wasted) forty years building up for that kind of a war (Th Cold War for ignorant people). The new methods of war are based on protecting the peace in foriegn nations where this scenario is taking place in other governments. However, this style of combat is inhgerently voluntary, as how the UN functions, and I beleive for it to be decently moral should keep that aspect intact throughout the military's system.

Also, I beleive that this democracy will cave in centuries before it crumbles on the outside. Democracy dies with celebration. Every fallen democracy since the industrial revolution has been destroyed by an ignorant, single minded dictatorship that gained the false hope of the soon to be oppressed.

Your argument is therefore unrealistic and must be regaurded as so.

{your point} :mp5:

Pride commith before the fall.

Er why not? You do know that if you have green soliders in Iraq whilst all your pro's are off invading Iran, your gonna be calling the Blackwatch, Paras etc to bail you out of some trouble or another, so I am afraid it does concern us.
British profesional soldiers is like saying brave french.

After reading this, I have to say that you're either doing a terrific job of role-playing a dumbass conservative or you're a dumbass conservative (as opposed to legit conservatives who aren't dumbasses). I mean, "criminal gets loosed apon society because of dumb libertarian views?" If you don't know the difference between liberal and libertarian....jeez.

Would you explain to everyone what you think the difference is?

libertarians believe in as little government intervention as possible ("the government that governs the least governs best" - Thomas Jefferson)

and a liberal wants restriction, notably, on businesses.

thats the skinny of it

Yo fuck face, I'm joining the fucking services, though I'm debating between choosing the Army or the Marines. I think I'll go for Army Rangers, yep that's what I'll do.

Good on you son, and go get em tiger.
I wish I was your age again, now Id probably be there right with you.
And Id immigrate to the US in that scenario, might as well go where the best equipment and chance to use it is.

libertarians believe in as little government intervention as possible ("the government that governs the least governs best" - Thomas Jefferson)

and a liberal wants restriction, notably, on businesses.

thats the skinny of it

That seems to be a very limited view of it too.
Over here libertarians are behind all efforts to turn my society into a criminals paradise as soon as possible.

I just had to respond to this...

First thing, at this point the reinstatement of the draft is just urban legend/netlore, there is nothing in the works to do this (Feel free to do any research you want) Since 2003, there have been 2 bills introduced to Congress about getting the draft going again. The first introduction was done by Rep. Charles Rangel, D-NY, in 2003. The second introduction was done by Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Neb. in April 2004.

So, just so you understand, Bush can not just say "Reinstate the draft!" and it happens, it must get through Congress first. And it has already failed twice in 2 years. Do you really thing they would turn around and say "Yes!" now? The Army is the only branch that has not hit their recruiting goals for the year. The Air Force, Navy and USMC have all surpassed their numbers. The USMC is up 3.1% right now. Based on that, a draft is not required.

And like someone pointed out, more people die in car accident each year in the US (42443 in 2004) then died in Iraq since the beginning of the war(1738 since 3/03).

Now dont get me wrong, I don't like the idea that we are loosing soldiers daily to a war that I dont fully agree with. But it is no where near a "Body bag factory" as another person stated earlier today in this thread. My brother just returned from Iraq last December, his wife is there now and he will be returning at the end of the year. So, I wake up every day looking at the news to see what happened and who got hurt and praying I dont see my sister-in-laws name. I have personal interest in this thing ending quickly.

But I will tell you, I spent 6 years in the USMC. I was in Desert Storm, Haiti, Somalia and a few other hell hole places. I saw what Saddam did to the Kuwaitis, not to mention his own people. We should have been allowed to continue up in 1991 to clear house and this wouldnt' be going on right now. But please just remember, no matter how you feel about Bush, the war in Iraq/Afghanistan or the draft... always support our troops. They are there to do a job, they all signed up knowing that this is part of the job and we need to back them and help where we can.

That seems to be a very limited view of it too.
Over here libertarians are behind all efforts to turn my society into a criminals paradise as soon as possible.

I believe u are making assumptions but if I had to judge you would be thinking of anarchists

by the way ur right, there are large groups of people who live to see the day where they can not feel safe. every moment a paranoia trip. yes people love that

=Vellocetia]I believe u are making assumptions but if I had to judge you would be thinking of anarchists

No, civil libertarians, have you heard of the Union of Civil libertys?

by the way ur right, there are large groups of people who live to see the day where they can not feel safe. every moment a paranoia trip. yes people love that

Why would there be large groups of people who think that?
Do you have statistics?
Most people want to live safe and secure, and are tired of this right they have paid with by their taxes taken away by dumb liberal ideals, that get put into law and benefit criminals more than them.

I just had to respond to this...
First thing, at this point the reinstatement of the draft is just urban legend/netlore, there is nothing in the works to do this (Feel free to do any research you want) Since 2003, there have been 2 bills introduced to Congress about getting the draft going again. The first introduction was done by Rep. Charles Rangel, D-NY, in 2003. The second introduction was done by Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Neb. in April 2004.
So, just so you understand, Bush can not just say "Reinstate the draft!" and it happens, it must get through Congress first. And it has already failed twice in 2 years. Do you really thing they would turn around and say "Yes!" now? The Army is the only branch that has not hit their recruiting goals for the year. The Air Force, Navy and USMC have all surpassed their numbers. The USMC is up 3.1% right now. Based on that, a draft is not required.
And like someone pointed out, more people die in car accident each year in the US (42443 in 2004) then died in Iraq since the beginning of the war(1738 since 3/03).
Now dont get me wrong, I don't like the idea that we are loosing soldiers daily to a war that I dont fully agree with. But it is no where near a "Body bag factory" as another person stated earlier today in this thread. My brother just returned from Iraq last December, his wife is there now and he will be returning at the end of the year. So, I wake up every day looking at the news to see what happened and who got hurt and praying I dont see my sister-in-laws name. I have personal interest in this thing ending quickly.
But I will tell you, I spent 6 years in the USMC. I was in Desert Storm, Haiti, Somalia and a few other hell hole places. I saw what Saddam did to the Kuwaitis, not to mention his own people. We should have been allowed to continue up in 1991 to clear house and this wouldnt' be going on right now. But please just remember, no matter how you feel about Bush, the war in Iraq/Afghanistan or the draft... always support our troops. They are there to do a job, they all signed up knowing that this is part of the job and we need to back them and help where we can.

Good to see someone on here with some credibility to comment on the US role in the world, and particularly Middle east.

No, civil libertarians, have you heard of the Union of Civil libertys?


no I havent and its not on wikipedia and I cant find it on google. proove me wrong though


Why would there be large groups of people who think that?
Do you have statistics?
Most people want to live safe and secure, and are tired of this right they have paid with by their taxes taken away by dumb liberal ideals, that get put into law and benefit criminals more than them.

I was being sarcastic. I was satirizing you because no one wants a criminal's paradise.

[QUOTE=Vellocetia]no I havent and its not on wikipedia and I cant find it on google. proove me wrong though

http://www.aclu.org/


I was being sarcastic. I was satirizing you because no one wants a criminal's paradise.

The civil libertarians seem too.

[QUOTE]

http://www.aclu.org/




The civil libertarians seem too.


ok the ACLU is not civil libertarian unionized. its for civil liberties. sorry, but if you believe that the best way to keep people in order is to keep the biggest watchful eye on them then we will get nowhere.

[QUOTE=Vellocetia][QUOTE=Chewbaccula]
ok the ACLU is not civil libertarian unionized. its for civil liberties.

Same thing.


sorry, but if you believe that the best way to keep people in order is to keep the biggest watchful eye on them then we will get nowhere.


You keep a watchfull eye on the crims and social malcontents(who dont really have an excuse to be that malcontented about much)
if your not breaking any laws, then what do you have to be worried about?

[QUOTE][QUOTE=Vellocetia]

Same thing.


Ah shit it is Im way too fucking tired



You keep a watchfull eye on the crims and social malcontents(who dont really have an excuse to be that malcontented about much)
if your not breaking any laws, then what do you have to be worried about?

the fact that its not right. read 1984 and get a better view

Im going to bed though

btw Im a minarchist

Good on you son, and go get em tiger.
I wish I was your age again, now Id probably be there right with you.
And Id immigrate to the US in that scenario, might as well go where the best equipment and chance to use it is.
Yep, but did you hear they increased the recruitment age to like 30, so that's any where from 17 to 30, nice range.

Yep, but did you hear they increased the recruitment age to like 30, so that's any where from 17 to 30, nice range.
Unfortunately Im 36. And though the spirit is strong, the flesh is now weak, All Im good for now is a desk job :(

[QUOTE=Chewbaccula][QUOTE]
Ah shit it is Im way too fucking tired
the fact that its not right. read 1984 and get a better view
Im going to bed though
btw Im a minarchist

You see this government as 1984 because its cracking down on terrorism right?
This is to protect people, not confine them.
And like I said, if your not a criminal or enemy of the state, you have nothing to fear, and everything to gain.

A minarchist?
You must be the only one.

British profesional soldiers is like saying brave french.

Yes mate, thats why no matter wherever you go, you always need some back up from us hmmm?

Might be time to appreciate your allies boy...

Oh and may I remind you to tell your troops not to actually shoot their allies please...teaching them to aim might be good...so much for professionalism...

I would have to agree that British troops have been right with us. Hell, I served with a mess of their artillery guys when this whole Iraq war started. I have to say that the Brits had a lot in common with us Marines out there, and make damn good allies. They just had more comforts than we did. (a damn big screen t.v ?!?!? good lord. of course we hung out with them.) Although I did feel bad at the fact that they had a shortage of knives, and the small insulated blankets (poncho liner) we had. If anyone needs em, let me know. Good times....

Oh yeah, for the Marines anyway, we have a saying. One shot, one kill. and no, that doesn't mean pointing our weapons at our allies.

I would have to agree that British troops have been right with us. Hell, I served with a mess of their artillery guys when this whole Iraq war started. I have to say that the Brits had a lot in common with us Marines out there, and make damn good allies. They just had more comforts than we did. (a damn big screen t.v ?!?!? good lord. of course we hung out with them.) Although I did feel bad at the fact that they had a shortage of knives, and the small insulated blankets (poncho liner) we had. If anyone needs em, let me know. Good times....

Oh yeah, for the Marines anyway, we have a saying. One shot, one kill. and no, that doesn't mean pointing our weapons at our allies.

lol, good stuff :) I've got a couple of mates in the army (as well as RAF and RN) and it just bugs me when we get slated as being non professional. Sure our equipment is sometimes a bit suspect, but man for man or woman for woman, I am pretty sure we are relatively equal to the U.S., even if the US army does have a larger training budget. Before this conflict it could be argued that we had far more experience as a whole, than the US Army.

No, it isnt. This is a good idea.
The Left are just now redundant to society, and serve little purpose except as a disruption to what should be normal life for most, eg: criminal gets loosed apon society because of dumb libertarian views, and despite repeat offences' is allowed to continue hurting innocent people.
Solution to this is to rid us of dumb people who encourage these laws to be passed.
So drafting them all to the front line for disenting, would be in effect, good.
Have a nice day.

Sirrah, I have the distinct honor of telling you this. You are redundant to society. Your draft orders are in the mail. We expect you at the local recruiters office within the next 24 hours or face imprisonment for shirking of your patriotic duty. Age, disabilities and physical defects are no problem. If you can walk, see lightning and hear thunder you are eligible.

36 years is not a limit to enlistment.

Have a nice day. We expect to hear from you in the warzone.

Dear Members,

I don't see why we should if it does happen have to make the draft mandatory. What about the kids who don't wanna get shot or kill other people, what about the kids who wanna pursue their ultimate dreams, what about the kids who don't want to think of war. Your mom carries you for nine months, and I think it's such a waste, a mother has to go through none months of constant worry and pain, only to see her child wounded or dead. Say if this draft was to be enacted,some kids who had big dreams could be crushed by something like war which never solves anything but only fuels hate and more hate. What a waste the draft would be, for kids who don't wanna anything to do with war.

1. People who are currently in the military don't want a draft. Draftees, on average, for quality, suck. Period.
2. It's a myth that the majority of troops in Vietnam were draftees. 80 to 85 percent of the forces in Vietnam were volunteers, not draftees.
3. Your odds of being killed or wounded in combat in today's armed forces are quite small compared to historical patterns. There are some inner city areas of the United States (Wards 7 and 8 in Washington, D.C., for example) that are deadlier for young men than being stationed in Iraq. Just standing outside of Ballou High School, in Washington, D.C., if you consider the high school population of young people, and the number that get killed in front of the building, is as dangerous as any place outside of the Green Zone.

And if you don't want anything to do with war, see item 1. No one who is a professional wants you there either. In a situation that would ordinarily be handled well, with few to zero casualties, a single person who doesn't want to be there can get everyone killed in a matter of seconds. It's because that one person doesn't understand why people fight - they fight to defend that small group to which they belong, not for some stupid political reason. The person who doesn't want to be there is all wrapped up in the bullshit, where the professionals just want to be able to make it home alive.

So go to Canada now. Please.

No acctually it's American news, Bush is planning to reinstate the draft. And I don't think that EU citizens should post here after all this has nothing to do with you, but I'm just using my 1st.
If he is, he should count on political suicide for the GOP then.

Dear Members,

I don't see why we should if it does happen have to make the draft mandatory. What about the kids who don't wanna get shot or kill other people, what about the kids who wanna pursue their ultimate dreams, what about the kids who don't want to think of war. Your mom carries you for nine months, and I think it's such a waste, a mother has to go through none months of constant worry and pain, only to see her child wounded or dead. Say if this draft was to be enacted,some kids who had big dreams could be crushed by something like war which never solves anything but only fuels hate and more hate. What a waste the draft would be, for kids who don't wanna anything to do with war.

Trouble is the ones we fight in war don't ask if you are in military or if you are going to school to be a thinker not a killer.. Also these don't ask about the fetus in a womb when they plant their explosive where mother's may walk. Tell me one peron who wants to be shot or killed... Other than some sick terrorist believes straping a bomb to himself or his child or wife or sister even mother and send them out to kill for a trip to their so called heaven... well I say turn all armies loose on these terrorists... and those that don't want to fight let them be the first to fall to them.. as terrorists have no rules of order while a military is forced to follow rules that often get more of them killed. We need to understand that WAR is death one side lives another dies... no in between here...

The Left .... serve little purpose except as a disruption to what should be normal life for most, eg: criminal gets loosed apon society because of dumb libertarian views, and despite repeat offences' is allowed to continue hurting innocent people.
Way to display knowledge of libertarianism, idiot. We libertarians don't believe in punishing 'victimless crimes' - when it comes to the *real* crimes: MURDER, RAPE, THEFT, and the like, we can be quite harsh.

And who says libertarians can't have a strong military/ability to fight terror?
Click (http://www.lp.org/lpnews/printer_3.shtml)

So go to Canada now. Please.
Your age is telling on you now... as this is Nam all over again just hope for sake of thus in Iraq it's not like that when they do come home.... You know spitting and 'baby killer'... Your right about draft and Nam, all of who went didn't want to go... we got there we wanted only to come home so we did our jobs.. protected each other... because the locals wouldn't help you... and you never knew which side they really were on... same things in Iraq now..

Your age is telling on you now... as this is Nam all over again just hope for sake of thus in Iraq it's not like that when they do come home.... You know spitting and 'baby killer'... Your right about draft and Nam, all of who went didn't want to go... we got there we wanted only to come home so we did our jobs.. protected each other... because the locals wouldn't help you... and you never knew which side they really were on... same things in Iraq now..

Considering that I was seven years old, in 1968, I wonder what you mean.

We've already had people try to go to Canada TODAY, and we've had Canadians on this forum comment about it.

If you're not rooting for the home team, you need to leave the stadium.

Considering that I was seven years old, in 1968, I wonder what you mean.

We've already had people try to go to Canada TODAY, and we've had Canadians on this forum comment about it.

If you're not rooting for the home team, you need to leave the stadium.

So if you disagree with the government, you must leave the nation? Doesn't that sound somewhat....fascist? Or would that be ultra-nationalist?

Last time I heard anyting about the draft...

it was proposed by two democratic Senators/Congressman (I hontestly can't remember which)..it went to a vote and was completely and overwhelingly shot down...but that was from earlier this year or late last year.

So if you disagree with the government, you must leave the nation? Doesn't that sound somewhat....fascist? Or would that be ultra-nationalist?
In those simple terms yes. But you live in a democracy and you may not agree with all the laws, but you either obey them or accept you will be punished. If you can't handle either then you do indeed live i the wrong country.

So if you disagree with the government, you must leave the nation? Doesn't that sound somewhat....fascist? Or would that be ultra-nationalist?

It's one thing to disagree. It's quite another to disobey the laws.

If there is a draft, and you don't want to go when you are picked, then you should leave.

You'll notice that there isn't a draft. That Bush is not proposing a draft. That DEMOCRATS proposed a draft, and it didn't even come close to passage. That the Pentagon does not want a draft.

When did the draft get re-instated? Last I checked, there was no plans for it.

It didn't and there isn't. Just EuroMoonbats trying to trying to stir up and scare American moonbat spawn into believing they don't get to be cowards if they want to.

Conservatives tend to lie to conceal their plan for conscription, and will then probably go through with it while nobody is looking. They did it with the patriot act, the iraq war, giving rights to the fetus, and they'll probably try to do it again.

They are also idealists, as they are claiming victory in iraq, when in fact the situation is so dire that a reinstated draft is in question.

On another note, I would like it if every1 gave some background to their opinion. I'm 15, so a draft would immenently crush my social life within 2 years. I'm aggravated by war mongering 40 yr olds who are just pissed at tax money used for bombs we didnt use, and who have never been in a draft

It's ok you are safe to be a coward all you want. No one in the military wants people like you. What is so hard to understand about that. Take a deep breath and don't listen to so many people that get their kicks trying to scare you...even though it is somewhat entertaining to see you snivel. Dont be too worried about being such a coward either. Most grow out of it...or run to canada which no longer helps you.

I volunteered to be in the infantry, and I've fought in combat, and I don't want people to be there who don't want to be there.

They'll just end up killing us by their stupidity and their self-pitying self-absorption.

Of course, there's the current difficulty that Canada is currently not taking people who are trying to claim they are fleeing the US military.

So they might have to go somewhere else. But better somewhere else than in service.

BTW, people keep thinking that the "conservatives" will sneak something in.

Some people here also think that "the draft" is something that old people want to force on the young.

BIG HINT: I'm a conservative, who served in combat in Iraq, and I don't want a draft. Because anyone who is there who is wrapped up in their social life and their hatred of America and their hatred of the military is only going to get people killed.

[QUOTE=Chewbaccula]


ok the ACLU is not civil libertarian unionized. its for civil liberties. sorry, but if you believe that the best way to keep people in order is to keep the biggest watchful eye on them then we will get nowhere.

No, it is not for civil liberties. That is simply the guise they operate under.

I volunteered to be in the infantry, and I've fought in combat, and I don't want people to be there who don't want to be there.

They'll just end up killing us by their stupidity and their self-pitying self-absorption.

Of course, there's the current difficulty that Canada is currently not taking people who are trying to claim they are fleeing the US military.

So they might have to go somewhere else. But better somewhere else than in service.

BTW, people keep thinking that the "conservatives" will sneak something in.

Some people here also think that "the draft" is something that old people want to force on the young.

BIG HINT: I'm a conservative, who served in combat in Iraq, and I don't want a draft. Because anyone who is there who is wrapped up in their social life and their hatred of America and their hatred of the military is only going to get people killed.

BRAVO! :D

It's one thing to disagree. It's quite another to disobey the laws.

If there is a draft, and you don't want to go when you are picked, then you should leave.


Ah, I had mistaken your statement to mean any form of disagreement since you used the term "rooting for the home team"

Nevertheless, I do not think you will disagree when i say that if you oppose a law, it is perfectly acceptable to oppose it by whatever means that are legally available?

Ah, I had mistaken your statement to mean any form of disagreement since you used the term "rooting for the home team"

Nevertheless, I do not think you will disagree when i say that if you oppose a law, it is perfectly acceptable to oppose it by whatever means that are legally available?

Not showing up when you're drafted is not legal. Before that, protest all you like, and shout falsehoods about a Republican neo-con conspiracy to reinstate the draft. And tell lies about 40-somethings who you think never served (but who did) who seemingly want to crush someone's "social life".

Better head for a foreign country now, though. It's the Democrats who are pushing hard for a draft, and they are the ones who have drafted legislation to try and make one.

Whhhhhhooooooooooooooooooo cares?

Oh yes, and what if America was invaded, then the chance for all those bright young children is gone when the new dictator takes over and oppresses the American people.

So don't insult what you don't know you damn hippy. You say that war isn't neccasary, that's true, but it happens anyway, and self defence is neccasary, that also includes the defence of ideals and allies. So what if some bright kids have to lay down their lives so that their children can have what they were robbed of. Some times people have to sacrifice so that they can assure the presevation of their descendants dreams, It's the selfishnous of people like you that make me sick.

I agree completely

Whhhhhhooooooooooooooooooo cares?
Goooooooooooooooooooooooooooood question!

Your age is telling on you now... as this is Nam all over again just hope for sake of thus in Iraq it's not like that when they do come home.... You know spitting and 'baby killer'... Your right about draft and Nam, all of who went didn't want to go... we got there we wanted only to come home so we did our jobs.. protected each other... because the locals wouldn't help you... and you never knew which side they really were on... same things in Iraq now..



lol nam was alot worse then this whole iraq thing cause we are fighting a unorganized enemy unlike in nam those was some mean muthas

http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20050623/ca_pr_on_wo/pentagon_privacy

The Pentagon has been collecting youth information in a huge database since 2003? Have they been planning the draft long?

Not showing up when you're drafted is not legal. Before that, protest all you like, and shout falsehoods about a Republican neo-con conspiracy to reinstate the draft. And tell lies about 40-somethings who you think never served (but who did) who seemingly want to crush someone's "social life".

Better head for a foreign country now, though. It's the Democrats who are pushing hard for a draft, and they are the ones who have drafted legislation to try and make one.

You misunderstand. I was speaking of actually using the local politicians within the senate to prevent such a bill from passing. Whatever tools to achieve a goal, the most practical and effective will be chosen. Not meaningless mud slinging which accomplishes nothing.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20050623/ca_pr_on_wo/pentagon_privacy

The Pentagon has been collecting youth information in a huge database since 2003? Have they been planning the draft long?

Shock! Horror! Did you know that the Pentagon has virtually every male over the age of 18 in a database since 1975?!

It's called The Selective Service System".

Oooh! Shock! Did you know it is illegal not to register when you turn 18?

China, North Korea, or even Russia.


Wow! China is going to invade the US! or maybe NK or Russia!

I guess they'll just be using magic teleporters to cross those minor OCEANS in the way...

And it's interesting that you think our professional armed services incapable of defeating magic teleporting assault troops from these countries, but that somehow forcing ordinary people to serve will be more effective. Interesting in the sense that you obviously don't have much faith or knowledge in our military.

Dumb ass no one prevents them from having children when they are drafted.

Yeah I guess dying doesn't prevent anyone from making babies. So is your mother a zombie?

Yo fuck face, I'm joining the fucking services, though I'm debating between choosing the Army or the Marines. I think I'll go for Army Rangers, yep that's what I'll do.

It warms my heart to know people like you are always there to serve and protect against the Chinese Invasion. You go stand on the beaches waiting for those ships, mmkay? I'll be at home boinking your girlfriend.

It warms my heart to know people like you are always there to serve and protect against the Chinese Invasion. You go stand on the beaches waiting for those ships, mmkay? I'll be at home boinking your girlfriend.

You're a little too late. I wore her out - she's now so wide, you'll have to strap a board across your ass to keep from falling in. But you can have her now...

If you're not rooting for the home team, you need to leave the stadium.

Won't that sorta kill the game? Stadiums have stands for both sides you know. So too does America have room for dissent.

Quit giving the modern liberals an excuse to hate you by saying "love it or leave it" all the time.

Won't that sorta kill the game? Stadiums have stands for both sides you know. So too does America have room for dissent.

Quit giving the modern liberals an excuse to hate you by saying "love it or leave it" all the time.

Sorry. The modern liberal hates any non-liberal as a gut reaction. Completely unconscious act...

You're a little too late. I wore her out - she's now so wide, you'll have to strap a board across your ass to keep from falling in. But you can have her now...

You man-ho, you're always torpedoing my virgin puncturing efforts!

[QUOTE=Draconis Federation]No acctually it's American news, Bush is planning to reinstate the draft. And I don't think that EU citizens should post here after all this has nothing to do with you, but I'm just using my 1st.[/QUOT

It's nothing to do with Bush that Saddam had WMD. It's nothing to do with Bush that Russia is not a "pure" democracy. But he intervenes anyway. Don't give the standard "U DONT LIVE IN OUR CUNTRY YOU CAN'T SAY BAD ABOUT IT" Because quite frankly all Americans that use this excuse talk bullshit about "Eurotrash" or "negrosville" all the time.

Dear Members,

I don't see why we should if it does happen have to make the draft mandatory. What about the kids who don't wanna get shot or kill other people, what about the kids who wanna pursue their ultimate dreams, what about the kids who don't want to think of war. Your mom carries you for nine months, and I think it's such a waste, a mother has to go through none months of constant worry and pain, only to see her child wounded or dead. Say if this draft was to be enacted,some kids who had big dreams could be crushed by something like war which never solves anything but only fuels hate and more hate. What a waste the draft would be, for kids who don't wanna anything to do with war.

i'm a bit confused, the draft is mandatory already. do you mean you're arguing to take away the draft?

No acctually it's American news, Bush is planning to reinstate the draft. And I don't think that EU citizens should post here after all this has nothing to do with you, but I'm just using my 1st.

oops, sorry, ignore that then, i didn't read the rest before i replied to the first post, though i'm not an european union citizen.

Yep, but did you hear they increased the recruitment age to like 30, so that's any where from 17 to 30, nice range.

The draft still remains 18-25, though they are looking at changing some of the procedures that would add an additional draft called the "Skills Draft" that would extend the age from 25-34 to fill background labor support positions based on your current work/life experiance and up to age 44 for medical background.

But really, unless something seriously goes wrong in Iraq or Afghanistan or some unexpected attack happens elsewhere in the world dont really expect a draft. As long as people continue to sign up for military service as they have and the branches are hitting or coming close to their recruitment goals a draft wont happen.

This is all part of the mud slinging from both sides in the last election that has everyone wound up. Remember, while Bush may be a Lame Duck president (For those that dont understand what a Lame Duck politician is, it is someone that has hit their max term limits and can not run in the next election), the Republicans don't want to loose the office and dont you think that a Republican president signing the draft in to action might cost them the next election?



*Edit-

I just wanted to post the Selective Services (ie- the draft) website to show that the draft is
1) Not currently active
2) Currently only ages 18-25

http://www.sss.gov/

The website even shows the last vote to reinstate the draft was defeated 402-2 (pretty huge odds to overcome if anyone really is trying to get it going again)