NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,15732211-23109,00.html

By bombing them where they live. Even if it's outside of the country. I think this is a good thing - it won't be long before the Chinese get fed up with their Islamic rebels in their western regions, and do the same thing.

RUSSIA is prepared to use warplanes to destroy terrorist bases abroad, Air Force commander Vladimir Mikhailov was quoted as saying today.
"As for terrorists and our fighter jets, if we have high-precision weapons and know the whereabouts of a terrorist gang, why not smash it, even if it's outside Russia?" Interfax news agency quoted him as saying.

Russia, which strongly opposed US-led attacks on Iraq in 2003, has battled rebels in the Muslim province of Chechnya for over a decade.

Moscow says Chechen rebels receive support and funding from international extremist organisations.

Mikhailov, on a visit to the Volga region town of Engels, said Russia's need to strike terrorist bases abroad was linked to aspects of US foreign policy, but he did not go into details.

Russia threatened pre-emptive strikes on rebel bases anywhere in the world after Chechen separatists took a school hostage in the town of Beslan in September 2004. More than 300 people, half of them children, died in the siege.

Moscow has not specified where it thought these bases were, but has repeatedly accused Georgia of allowing Chechen rebels to operate from the Pankisi Gorge which borders Chechnya.

Sounds reasonable to me.

Common sense, despite rumors to the contrary, is not completely dead yet.

*thumbs up to Russia for getting with the program*

Good deal, take em out! :sniper:

Is this a thinly veiled attempt at excusing what we are doing? Least however they might actually be bombing terrorists, with prejudice

I'd prefer we dealt with terrorists after we capture them like the Russians do. Put them into the back of a truck, then never have them seen or heard from again.

I'd prefer we dealt with terrorists after we capture them like the Russians do. Put them into the back of a truck, then never have them seen or heard from again.

We use airplanes instead of trucks. :D

Is anyone beside me aware of just how screwed up the Russian military is, especially when dealing with Chechnyan terror?
If Russia takes things on like the US, it's going to make the criticism on Guantanamo sound like a picknick. This could cause a major outcry amongst moderate islamists and could threaten already unstable pro-western regimes in the Arab world.

"Russians Plan To Deal With Terrorists Just Like The US"

Can I assume you meant "terrorists, just like the US"? or did you actually mean what you said, "terrorists just like the US"?

Ihatevacations']Is this a thinly veiled attempt at excusing what we are doing? Least however they might actually be bombing terrorists, with prejudice
How, pray tell, does one "bomb with prejudice?" I'd love to hear more about that one. :D

UH? lol.

Come on, Russia has been dropping Fuel-air bombs on Chechnya for long now... Hell, that even helped him re-take the place, after the Chechen kicked the shit out of the Russian Army in the late 90's.

Probably the Russians are comming with this type of discourse to justify bombarding any breakaway region that is getting to high on the idea of independence from Russia, just like Chechnya, or in this case, to justify submiting a former state of the USSR to its power.

And its also very funny that Americans laud the techniques of the near-fascist Russian state lol.

Shows a bit how Bush-ass-kissers think.

How, pray tell, does one "bomb with prejudice?" I'd love to hear more about that one. :D
I think it involves "teh finger"

Ah good, so the russian military has international support to bomb Chechnya into submission. Me likey.

Is anyone beside me aware of just how screwed up the Russian military is, especially when dealing with Chechnyan terror?
If Russia takes things on like the US, it's going to make the criticism on Guantanamo sound like a picknick. This could cause a major outcry amongst moderate islamists and could threaten already unstable pro-western regimes in the Arab world.

And start WW III?

And start WW III?

Probably not. It would be a fuck-up in the Middle East but I doubt it will spill except maybe south into Africa.

*thumbs up to Russia for getting with the program*
What the hell are you people talking about?

Russia still doesn't give a shit about Al-Qaeda. And they're only doing the same thing that the U.S. did after Bin Laden attacked. It's not like they're going to partake in join the Iraqi war or start opening up gulags in Cuba.

Chechen rebels != Middle Eastern Terrorists.

How, pray tell, does one "bomb with prejudice?" I'd love to hear more about that one. :D"Bomb with prejudice" is to use high explosives and other physically desasterous ordinance... otherwise we just send over tapes of "Glitter", "Ishtar", "Gigli"... etc.

How, pray tell, does one "bomb with prejudice?" I'd love to hear more about that one. :D
By painting "Happy Ramadan" on missiles, as soldiers did in the first Gulf War. Or bombing the Al-Jazeera building and several other Arab media buildings because it's fun.

And start WW III?
I think that Third World War is a better term...

What the hell are you people talking about?

Russia still doesn't give a shit about Al-Qaeda. And they're only doing the same thing that the U.S. did after Bin Laden attacked. It's not like they're going to partake in join the Iraqi war or start opening up gulags in Cuba.

Chechen rebels != Middle Eastern Terrorists.
The rebels are islamic fundamentalists, and they do have ties to international islamic terror. Why do you think the women in the theater were wearing veils?

I'd prefer we dealt with terrorists after we capture them like the Russians do. Put them into the back of a truck, then never have them seen or heard from again.
Why not just bomb their bases? And if you capture them, treat them like the POWs that they are.

The rebels are islamic fundamentalists, and they do have ties to international islamic terror. Why do you think the women in the theater were wearing veils?


mmmm Chechenya has a muslim majority, and one tenet of the muslim religion is that women must wear veils, it isnt necessarely a show of extremism.


The initial rebels of chechenya were ordinary folks that wanted an independent homeland. That simple. It was when they were wiped out by the Russians (that commited plenty of horrible atrocities, but since they are now friends of the west, that's ok), that the Islamic freaks in Chechenya took over.. they were the only ones left with the will to fight.

But my point is, don't be so quick to call every Chechen a terrorist.They have their reasons.

Sounds reasonable to me.
Agreed. These sick people need to be taught a lesson. I might've supported them, kinda, if they didn't kill 300 kids in a seige. That warrants their execution.

I'd prefer we dealt with terrorists after we capture them like the Russians do. Put them into the back of a truck, then never have them seen or heard from again.
Why do you think the conflict keeps flaming up in Chechnya? Because the Russians do it Russian-style. There's no rule of law and it forces people to choose a side in order not to get killed for working for the others by staying neutral. It's a mess and the reason it's that way is because they get dragged off the street and into a corner and shot and not given a fair trial. And they don't always nab the bad guys, they just take people to scare everyone else into shutting up. And this is both sides! There is almost no distinction between terrorists and Russians on a moral scale.
You should be ashamed of applauding them for taking it outside of Russia.

mmmm Chechenya has a muslim majority, and one tenet of the muslim religion is that women must wear veils, it isnt necessarely a show of extremism.


The initial rebels of chechenya were ordinary folks that wanted an independent homeland. That simple. It was when they were wiped out by the Russians (that commited plenty of horrible atrocities, but since they are now friends of the west, that's ok), that the Islamic freaks in Chechenya took over.. they were the only ones left with the will to fight.

But my point is, don't be so quick to call every Chechen a terrorist.They have their reasons.
I'm not calling every Chechen a terrorist... but the leading terrorists are islamic fundamentalists. You are aware that they set up a state with Jeltsin's permission, but kept violating the cease-fire by raiding Russia?
The rebels in Chechnya, the main groups, are sick bastards. The problem is, the Russians are no better. It's the best example of how eye for an eye doesn't work.
The civilian population is suffering immensely, because there's no room for innocent bystanders.

The Russian Army are terrorists theirselves; ever heard of the mass graves of thousands of innocent Chechans that were rounded up and shot by the Russians?

Seen the pictures of the weeping family members searching through the mounds of bodies?

Seen the reports of how the Russians destroy entire villages, towns and cities that has driven hundreds of thousands out of their homes?

Or back in the 1940s, where 100,000 Chechans were deported to Siberia, and where over 2/3s of them died on the way?

The Chechans have a right to self-determination and a right to independance! Long live the Chechan Resistance! Bear in mind, not all of the resistance are Muslim extremists; so it is bigoted to label a person a terrorist all because he/she wants independance for their homeland.

Why not just bomb their bases? And if you capture them, treat them like the POWs that they are.

Illegal combatants is a much better term, unless they are wearing uniforms.

...The initial rebels of chechenya were ordinary folks that wanted an independent homeland. That simple. It was when they were wiped out by the Russians (that commited plenty of horrible atrocities, but since they are now friends of the west, that's ok), that the Islamic freaks in Chechenya took over.. they were the only ones left with the will to fight.


Are you sure about that? Are you sure the extremists weren’t in on it from the start?

Hey, I've got a grand idea: WHY DON'T WE JUST FUCKING NUKE THE WHOLE GODDAMN PLANET? WHILE WE'RE AT IT, IT HEARD THAT THERE ARE EVEN SOME TERRORISTS ON THE MOON AND ON MARS: NUKE THE WHOLE FUCKING UNIVERSE!

(That said, good night to all you peace-loving people out there. To those warmongers - you know who you are - happy nightmares!)

The Chechans have a right to self-determination and a right to independance! Long live the Chechan Resistance! Bear in mind, not all of the resistance are Muslim extremists; so it is bigoted to label a person a terrorist all because he/she wants independance for their homeland.

Just like the Confederate States in America had a right to self determination?

Illegal combatants is a much better term, unless they are wearing uniforms.
Legally you are probably correct, but aside from that, terrorists captured are prisoners of war, given that you're fighting a war against terrorists.

Legally you are probably correct, but aside from that, terrorists captured are prisoners of war, given that you're fighting a war against terrorists.

There was this thing called the "Geneva Convention", it outlined all kinds of things as they relate to war. It included a "groovy" section on topic like "Who is and Who isn't a legal combatant". Everyone else like terrorists and mercenaries aren't covered and can be shot on sight. There was the other part that said people who didn't sign it aren't eligible for it's protections. Do you know that means? Hu, do ya, do ya??

*psst* Terrorist aren't p.o.ws. Pass it on.

Unless you now consider captured IRA members as POWs. If that's the case your government as a whole lot of rights violations to answer for.

Just like the Confederate States in America had a right to self determination?



Their complaints were'nt legitimate...They also attacked first, meaning they called the Norths' wraith down on themselves.


The American Revolution? THAT was LEGITIMATE.

So, lemme get this straight. You declared war on a force which BY DEFINITION has no uniform or visible command structure. Genius. Twisted, but genius.

Common sense, despite rumors to the contrary, is not completely dead yet.

(tap) (tap) (tap) Er... you sure about that?

http://mjjsource.com/main/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=613&Itemid=32

(tap) (tap) (tap) Er... you sure about that?

http://mjjsource.com/main/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=613&Itemid=32

Dang. I hate it when I'm wrong.

http://www.maineiac.com/ethnic/common_sense.htm

Hey, I've got a grand idea: WHY DON'T WE JUST FUCKING NUKE THE WHOLE GODDAMN PLANET? WHILE WE'RE AT IT, IT HEARD THAT THERE ARE EVEN SOME TERRORISTS ON THE MOON AND ON MARS: NUKE THE WHOLE FUCKING UNIVERSE!

(That said, good night to all you peace-loving people out there. To those warmongers - you know who you are - happy nightmares!)

You know, I have heard this type of thing quite a few times before. Ironically, it always came from pacifists, never from someone that condoned the use of force. Very ironic.

How, pray tell, does one "bomb with prejudice?" I'd love to hear more about that one. :D

With prejudice means the same as with extreme violence. In special operations of smaller units it means no survivors / no prisoners

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,15732211-23109,00.html

By bombing them where they live. Even if it's outside of the country. I think this is a good thing - it won't be long before the Chinese get fed up with their Islamic rebels in their western regions, and do the same thing.

RUSSIA is prepared to use warplanes to destroy terrorist bases abroad, Air Force commander Vladimir Mikhailov was quoted as saying today.
"As for terrorists and our fighter jets, if we have high-precision weapons and know the whereabouts of a terrorist gang, why not smash it, even if it's outside Russia?" Interfax news agency quoted him as saying.

Russia, which strongly opposed US-led attacks on Iraq in 2003, has battled rebels in the Muslim province of Chechnya for over a decade.

Moscow says Chechen rebels receive support and funding from international extremist organisations.

Mikhailov, on a visit to the Volga region town of Engels, said Russia's need to strike terrorist bases abroad was linked to aspects of US foreign policy, but he did not go into details.

Russia threatened pre-emptive strikes on rebel bases anywhere in the world after Chechen separatists took a school hostage in the town of Beslan in September 2004. More than 300 people, half of them children, died in the siege.

Moscow has not specified where it thought these bases were, but has repeatedly accused Georgia of allowing Chechen rebels to operate from the Pankisi Gorge which borders Chechnya.


Hmmm, I guess this ends Russia's period of enlightenment and unity with EuroMoonbats in their fight to end the fight against terrorism. (and keep the kickbacks flowing)

Is anyone beside me aware of just how screwed up the Russian military is, especially when dealing with Chechnyan terror?
If Russia takes things on like the US, it's going to make the criticism on Guantanamo sound like a picknick. This could cause a major outcry amongst moderate islamists and could threaten already unstable pro-western regimes in the Arab world.

Well, that means that no one will criticize the US, who will appear moderate and effective by comparison.

So, lemme get this straight. You declared war on a force which BY DEFINITION has no uniform or visible command structure. Genius. Twisted, but genius.

They do have members. It's possible to determine that a location has those members by monitoring communications and identifying the presence of weapons.

Ever seen an AC-130 work at night? That's how they do it. Oh, and since the AC-130 can't take prisoners from 10,000 feet, they don't.

http://www.nata2.info/war/AC-130U_gunship_video_lo.wmv

You should be ashamed of applauding them for taking it outside of Russia.

Chechnya isn't really outside Russia though is it and Russia does care about Al-Qaeda seem as half of the terrorists involved in the Beslan siege had links to Al-Qaeda.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,15732211-23109,00.html

By bombing them where they live. Even if it's outside of the country. I think this is a good thing - it won't be long before the Chinese get fed up with their Islamic rebels in their western regions, and do the same thing.
Oh great. Soon we will have Russia, the US and perhaps China indiscriminately bombing other countries. I see that as a recipe for disaster.

The Chechen terrorists are murderous bastards - that is correct. But so are the Russians. I mean, they fought in Chechnya like Japanese samurais - ie lots of unnecessary slaughter. I can easily imagine the Russians happily bombing innocent people… quite easily. It's the sort of thing that Russia does.

Oh great. Soon we will have Russia, the US and perhaps China indiscriminately bombing other countries. I see that as a recipe for disaster.

How would that be a disaster? Explain.

How would that be a disaster? Explain.
I didn't like it when the US violated Iraqi sovereignity on highly speculative information, and I suggested way back then, that it would open the door for other countries to do the same.

If the Russians and Chinese started doing the same thing then who will determine the validity of these operations? Besides, it violates the UN Charter.

The US is already in the Middle East and Russian excursions would be also be in the same region. How long before they get tangled up? The world is getting smaller not larger.

I didn't like it when the US violated Iraqi sovereignity on highly speculative information, and I suggested way back then, that it would open the door for other countries to do the same.

If the Russians and Chinese started doing the same thing then who will determine the validity of these operations? Besides, it violates the UN Charter.

The US is already in the Middle East and Russian excursions would be also be in the same region. How long before they get tangled up? The world is getting smaller not larger.

I believe that most nations are well aware that for decades, the UN Charter has been essentially moribund, and without meaning. It is toothless and impotent - incapable of truly preventing war. In fact, one might say that its first major failure was Resolution 90 - the Korean War.

It has taken this long for some major nations to finally realize that it is truly a dead document.

I believe that most nations are well aware that for decades, the UN Charter has been essentially moribund, and without meaning. It is toothless and impotent - incapable of truly preventing war. In fact, one might say that its first major failure was Resolution 90 - the Korean War.

It has taken this long for some major nations to finally realize that it is truly a dead document.
If it's so dead, why did it create the grounds for the first gulf war? The sovereignity of every state is guaranteed and that's why there was such broad support to go after Saddam. It is not incapable of preventing war. Or have you heard about the Dutch-Indonesian war in the 1940s? Probably not, it never happened.

The Russian Army are terrorists theirselves; ever heard of the mass graves of thousands of innocent Chechans that were rounded up and shot by the Russians?

I've heard about the mass graves with hundreds of Chechens. I do not know whether they were innocent or not; do you?

Seen the pictures of the weeping family members searching through the mounds of bodies?
In the Moscow morgue, after Dubrovka? Yes, I did.

Seen the reports of how the Russians destroy entire villages, towns and cities that has driven hundreds of thousands out of their homes?
We did not start the second Chechen war. But Russia had the temerity to defend itself with military force. Make no mistake, our Army went into Chechnya to avenge the defeat of 1996 -- and our vengeance was terrible.

Or back in the 1940s, where 100,000 Chechans were deported to Siberia, and where over 2/3s of them died on the way?
Not Siberia -- Kazakhstan. And... well, the Communist Party denounced that crime of Stalin back in 1956.

The Chechans have a right to self-determination and a right to independance! Long live the Chechan Resistance! Bear in mind, not all of the resistance are Muslim extremists; so it is bigoted to label a person a terrorist all because he/she wants independance for their homeland.
They probably have their rights. But Russia has a right to preserve its territorial integrity. Our Government has exercised that right.

So I'm a bigot. The separatists do not merely 'want' independEnce for Chechnya, they are killing and maiming anyone they feel like to.

The conduct of the Chechen Wars has been far from perfect. Our Army is cruel, and I do not think that the commanders in the field read the Geneva Conventions day and night. However, if we are to jugge it by historical standards, the Russian Army's behaviour in Chechnya at present (2005) is rather orderly.

So I'm a bigot. The separatists do not merely 'want' independEnce for Chechnya, they are killing and maiming anyone they feel like to.

This is my opinion of most terrorists, including paramilitaries that engage in massacre and genocide (whether Columbian or Serbian or Salvadorean).

Most of the people who join these organizations, and most especially those that run them are not the religious freaks we're meant to believe they are. They use their religion or their politics or their racial beliefs to gather ignorant killers to their side.

But that notwithstanding, these are men who like to kill for pleasure. They like to see pain, death, and fear. And they understand nothing else.

I also do not believe that they are "created" by our actions. No, in every generation, these people exist, and they use our actions as an excuse.

I've seen the video of the people held captive in the theater - and there was some commentary by the BBC narrator about how the Russian Special Forces shot the unconscious terror women who had bombs strapped to their bodies.

I'm sorry, but I would have shot them in the head without reservation.